Jews, the Holocaust, escape, and fighting back
Commenter “AesopFan” wrote this recently:
As Andrea Widburg posted recently at Bookworm Room, [liberal Jews in the US have] believed that their support for all the “catechism causes” of the left would give them some cover for being Jewish, but it didn’t.
The liberal Jews in 1930s Europe made the same mistake.
I’m a bit confused by that analogy, because liberal Jews in Europe wouldn’t have expected protection from the left in Europe during the 1930s, since the traditional left was being persecuted by the Nazis once the latter came to power. Unless you define Nazis themselves as “the left” (they had elements of both left and right as those sides are defined by Europe, but what they most had in common with the left was that they were statists), how could the more traditional left of Europe have protected the Jews when the left had trouble protecting themselves?:
In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps.
However, at least early in the game, some German Jews apparently expected that their patriotism – for example, the fact that they had fought in WWI for Germany – might have protected them. But it is generally a myth that most German Jews didn’t see the terribly dangerous writing on the wall not long after the Nazis came to power, and certainly they saw it by the late 1930s.
I’ve written on this topic several times before, but I think it bears repeating. So please take a look at this post of mine, which has appeared already on this blog now and again over the years. There are other myths about the Jews of Europe, too, such as the idea that they didn’t resist going “meekly into the boxcars.”
If you study the history of what the Nazis actually did, they practiced all sorts of clever deceptions to make sure the people they were rounding up did not know what was happening and certainly didn’t know for sure. There were told they were being relocated, and to pack bags, and many believed them. The entire roundup apparatus was geared to maintaining the deception to the bitter end, including the false showers at the death camps, in order to forestall any chance of rebellion.
In addition, there were many women, children, and old people involved, and the Jewish populace, unlike that of the US, was not armed. In Germany, which had a registry of all gun owners, there were gun-confiscating surprise raids on Jews early on, and you can read more here about what was done by the Nazis to disarm the Jews. Furthermore – and this is also of the utmost importance to remember – where would the Jews have gone, even if they had been successful? Many of the Jews who did manage to flee without papers – and papers were very had to get – were turned back in droves, into the arms of the Nazis. Most of Europe would not accept them, nor would the US, and in the notorious White Paper of May, 1939 the British sharply limited Jewish immigration to Israel/Palestine.
As for other countries, the German blitzkrieg method of quickly conquering them left Jews there with little opportunity for escape. Recall, for example, that Anne Frank’s family had fled to Amsterdam from Germany back in 1934. But later the net closed quickly around them when the Netherlands was suddenly conquered, and they were trapped. This experience of fleeing to another European country erroneously assumed to be safe (The Netherlands, for example, had remained neutral during WWI) was a frequent occurrence for European Jews.
I can’t recall where I read the following – probably from various sources, almost certainly including Primo Levi – it’s not as though no one standing in line for deportation tried to resist. But those who did try to resist were shot on the spot or killed by guard dogs, and those people who were watching probably decided to take their chances with the unknown of deportation instead. By that time, many of them were also ill and weak and suffering from disease and malnutrition, having spent time in overcrowded ghettos created by the Nazis (see this) who gave them completely inadequate rations. The more able-bodied and young among them, however, sometimes joined partisan groups (for more information on Jewish partisans please see this). And most of you probably know about the heroic but doomed resistance of the Warsaw ghetto uprising.
One likes to think there was a way out for those who didn’t – or mostly couldn’t – leave Europe early. But for most, it would have required 20/20 hindsight, perfect organization, knowledge, arms, good health, and a safe haven – none of which were possible for the remnant who had not been able to escape Germany earlier, and for the larger group in other countries in Europe. It is also not widely known how many Jews committed suicide rather than be taken to camps, but it happened quite frequently and is described by Victor Klemperer in his diaries from the Germany of the era.
[NOTE: Nothing here is an attempt to pick on AesopFan, who may indeed already know all of this. But I see misconceptions on this topic so often that I used AesopFan’s comment as a take-off point to discuss the issue.]
Look how fast the government in various places cracked down for COVID.
I certainly would not have expected that only one state would refuse to lock it’s citizens down.
And there were more than plenty of our neighbors chomping at the bit to help the government enforce the rules.
I was surprised at the level of compliance among my very own family members who I would have thought smarter than that and less cowardly. Friends too. And coworkers.
“The liberal Jews in 1930s Europe made the same mistake.”
That doesn’t necessarily refer to Germany. Of course, no one expect Germany to overrun most of the continent, as WWII was very different from WWI.
Eeyore:
It makes no sense for Eastern Europe either. For example, Poland and Ukraine and Lithuania had long traditions of anti-Semitism, and there would be no reason for Jews – liberal or otherwise – to expect protection from anyone there.
I have a friend that I met through my Other Brother. His family left Germany just after Crystal Nacht. They dispersed throughout the World. His Mother is from Israel and he had Family there now. His Father joined the US Army in WWII, became a Medic with a Parachute Regiment, marched into Germany. He said his Grandfather was a WWI Vet and thought he would be protected, he wasn’t and he got out with his Family.
Posts like this serve as a great reminder of the greatness of this blog. Interesting thoughts embedded in proper historical context – just wonderful.
Perhaps the needed corrective is prolific WWII historian Mark Felton’s survey of the subject in 2016, entitled “Holocaust Heros: The Resistance to Hitler’s Final Solution” by Jews themselves.
This depressing topic, despite nearly always deadly endings, is painted in uplifting terms, and were heroic indeed.
From the publishers description (The Naval Institute Press):
“‘Holocaust Heroes’ is an inspiring book that examines the incredible–yet tragic–examples of Jewish resistance in ghettos and concentration camps during the days of the Nazis’ ‘Final Solution.’ The Warsaw Uprising during the spring of 1944 is the most infamous rebellion, but there were other occasions of Jews and other prisoners fighting back–often with stunning results–against their murderers via the armed Jewish resistance.
“Destroying gas chambers, efforts to take over camps, and escaping en masse were just some of the brave methods attempted to stop the machinery of the Holocaust throughout Poland and the Ukraine. In virtually every case, the brave men and women who rebelled against their captors, paid dearly with their lives.
“Holocaust Heroes recounts the stories of these individuals who fought against victimization and acted with bravery, resourcefulness, and resistance to fight against their tragic fate. An important and original addition to the bibliography of the Holocaust, these stories are uplifting, inspiring, and profoundly moving.”
And yes, they are.
David Fremon has a same titled book, but only half the length of Felton’s fuller survey.
For what it’s worth, I think the point that,
[liberal Jews in the US have] believed that their support for all the “catechism causes” of the left would give them some cover for being Jewish, but it didn’t.
is absolutely right. These poor people are experiencing an emotional tsunami right now, [hopefully] requiring a complete rethought of all they once held true.
But the attempt to connect this to the 1930s is a bridge too far. The left had no reason then to expect the comfort they take for granted now.
@Neo
I think this is badly overlooking a few things, starting with the fact that while the Nazis and their allies were the most obvious predators against Jews in 1930s Europe, they were far from the only ones. Stalin’s Soviet Union had literally begun destroying the Jewish Autonomous Oblast in a campaign of persecution and purges, and by the time Stalin died he was apparently ginning things up for a second Holocaust, albeit somewhat tailored differently in terms of targets with the Doctor’s Plot.
Moreover, a great many others were going after Jews as well, with Italian Fascists and Romanian anti-semites, many of whom like Mussolini himself and Bombacci being representatives of the Left.
But I think at least as important is the fact that leaving aside the question of Fascism and the Soviet Experiment, the 1930s Liberal Jews of Europe expected much more tolerance from the persecutors of Jews because they were supposedly the “Good” Jews rather than those filthy dirty backwards long-bearded unassimilated folks in say Poland, and this is a sentiment that cropped up. However, the other issue is that they also seem to have expected a great deal more HELP from “the left” in protecting them, and not just Stalin. But they by and large didn’t get it. The British blocked emigration to the Palestinian Mandate during the war and this continued under Labour (who saw an outright guerilla war against Zionist paramilitaries like Haganah after). Sweden happily took in many Social Democrats but generally refused attempts by Jews to ship out, and of course we have FDR playing sphynx. These were supposed to be the progressive, left-of-center Good Guys, not Nazis, not Fascists, not Anti-Dreyfussard Right Wing Reactionaries, and not even the Soviets. But they just left them to rot (often quite literally).
This also touches on a very sharp and unpleasant part of the Holocaust, made all the sharper because of just how demonized and even dehumanized the Nazis and to a lesser extent their close allies like the Vichyites and Ustasha have become. That the Holocaust and its associated killings couldn’t have been NEARLY as successful in what they did without quite a lot of cooperation from other people. And I’m not just talking about the rhetorical “Ordinary Men” of Browning’s Paramilitary Police or the “Good Germans”, but people who ostensibly or actually were no friends of the Nazis but did not have any special love for Jews or even much emphasis on helping to save them and others for various reasons, including many of the Neutrals or Good Guys in the story.
Have to disagree, particularly in the cases of Lithuania and Poland. Both had strong issues with Jew Hatred and became famous in the aftermath, but that overlooks something. While Ukrainian nationalism had long had a disturbing track record of anti-Jewish atrocities that was prevalent under Khmelnitsky and that Petliura tried and failed to stop and similar could be said in Poland (see: Endeks), Poland and Lithuania had long histories of tolerance for them, and they were reasonably well protected and integrated by the governments. After all, the Polish Endeks were the side that lost and were crushed by their Phillosemitic rival Pilsudski.
@Neo Sorry, Edit screwed me.
But TL:DR, we associate Poland with anti-Jewish pogroms now due to what happened during the war and afterwards, but Poland wouldn’t have been home to nearly so many Jews without a long history of tolerance. And indeed, the pre-war governments of Poland and Lithuania did indeed work to protect and integrate the Jews, and while in Poland this was marred by legal discrimination such as against giving loans or having more university members this was not comparable in lithuania.
The issue is that these governments were just swept aside quite brutally by the Nazis and Soviets. And while it’d be tough to clearly identify either the Lithuanian or Polish governments with “the Left” t9hough technically Poland was governed by offshoots of Pilsudski’s Polish Socialist Party) they do represent the real hope many assimilated Jews would have had, and the limits of how successful that was.
Might be a better expected but we’re disappointed tragically with Jews in the Soviet Union. Many were Communists but the Bolsheviks were as anti Jewish only slightly less than the Nazis.
Warsaw Getto uprising was heroic but doomed. Have a History of the 2nd WW journal special on it from when I was a very young teenager.
Poland and the Jews have a complicated history. I have studied it in some depth. The Wikipedia entry on the subject is pretty good. See “History of the Jews in Poland” at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland.
Key excerpts:
“For centuries, Poland was home to the largest and most significant Ashkenazi Jewish community in the world. Poland was a principal center of Jewish culture, because of the long period of statutory religious tolerance and social autonomy which ended after the Partitions of Poland in the 18th century.”
“From the founding of the Kingdom of Poland in 1025 until the early years of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth created in 1569, Poland was the most tolerant country in Europe.[6] Historians have used the label paradisus iudaeorum (Latin for “Paradise of the Jews”).[7][8] Poland became a shelter for Jews persecuted and expelled from various European countries and the home to the world’s largest Jewish community of the time. According to some sources, about three-quarters of the world’s Jews lived in Poland by the middle of the 16th century.”
During World War II Polish gentiles (i.e., Catholics) did indeed assist the Jews in the latter’s efforts to survive. The Catholic Church was very involved in this effort, providing forged papers to young Jewish girls, giving them Christian names. It was a problematic undertaking, and for all the reasons you might imagine, but also because it was only feasible with girls who looked Polish, i.e. had blond hair and gentile features (as opposed to Semitic features.) There were, however, a great number of Jewish girls who “qualified” — in the course of centuries there had been much intermarriage between gentiles and Jews, which had produced children who looked like gentiles — who, in fact, looked downright “Aryan” (in the German sense).
Unfortunately the Catholic Church and other groups who wanted to help the Jews could do nothing in a similar regard for the young men, as they were all circumcised — an infallible give-away of their Jewishness.
During the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in 1943 the Polish Armia Krajowa, i.e. the “Home Army” or underground army, did supply what arms they could spare to the Jewish fighters, and groups of Home Army fighters did enter the ghetto and fight alongside the Jews. Up until then the Home Army leadership had been disinclined to help Jews in Poland because it seemed to them that the Jews were not willing to fight for their survival, that they were going passively to their fate. But the Home Army leadership changed their view when the Ghetto uprising started and Jewish fighters inside the ghetto communicated to the Home Army that they knew they were doomed but fighting back regardless was a matter of Jewish honor. This was something that Poles could understand, that appealed to the Poles: honor mattered to them (it still does).
It is worth mentioning in this context that 3 million Polish gentiles died in the war, along with 3 million Polish Jews. In 1943 the Home Army was still very limited in the sort of aid they could provide Jewish fighters in the ghetto — gentiles were being murdered, or otherwise done to death, in numbers equal to that of the Jews.
Just wanted to set the record straight on the Poles and Poland, a people and a country I love.
re “Many [Jews] were Communists but the Bolsheviks were as anti Jewish only slightly less than the Nazis.”
As Timothy Snyder observed in “Bloodlands”: “While many Bolsheviks were Jews, not many Jews were Bolsheviks.”
Snyder goes further explains that these are two entirely different proposition, and it is important to recognize the difference.
Poland and the Jews have a complicated history.
Understatement of the year IrishOtter49!
…a people and a country I love.
Ditto.
Turtler; IrishOtter49; Mike Plaiss:
Jews originally came to Poland because it was more welcoming than most other countries. Later on, Poland was a hotbed of anti-Semitism, as were many many other countries but Poland had a larger Jewish population (I believe about 10%, and about 25% in Warsaw). During the Holocaust, Poles were terribly mistreated by the Nazis and were also punished extra-horribly (and more harshly than in most other countries) if they harbored Jews. Nevertheless, because of a variety of reasons – among them money, Catholic devoutness, kindness, political affiliation (Communist, usually) – quite a few Poles saved Jews by hiding them. I believe that Polish is the most frequent nationality among the Righteous honored by Israel for saving Jews during the Holocaust.
I refer you to this post. I’ve written others, but am having trouble finding them at the moment.
If you want to see a good movie relevant to this topic, please see this.
Skip:
As others have said, not many Jews were Communists, but quite a few Communists were Jews.
Also, at the outset when those Jews joined up, the Communists were pretending to not be anti-Semitic. They promised a relief from the huge amount of anti-Semitism in Russia and the Eastern European countries Russia controlled. They lied, but that was the promise.
From recent polls and news articles, it seems our abysmal public education system has failed to tell young people about the Holocaust at all. They don’t know, and have no understanding of why Jews in Israel are willing to fight for survival. I have seen comments claiming (falsely) that they’re all European “colonizers” and should just go back to where they came from. Europe is an increasingly unsafe place for Jews today.
Anne Frank’s father, Otto, served in the German Army in WWI and was promoted to lieutenant.
@ Neo > “I used AesopFan’s comment as a take-off point to discuss the issue”
Happy to be of service; sadly, brevity is the soul of ambiguity!
I was not thinking particularly of the Left as the actual culprit in the 1930s, just that the Jews, then and now, expected to be given some credit for being “good” however that was defined, and didn’t get it.
To Neo & commenters: Couldn’t have said it better myself, and obviously didn’t!
Thanks for the information and discussion, which added much to my former understanding of the topic.
Neo quotes: “In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month.”
That appears to be the background for Niemoller’s famous confession.
There is a book that I have – read the reviews and ordered it years ago – about the Myth of Rescue. Basically, the majority of Jews who were young and able bodied, in good health, middle-class and optimistic, and without the care for elderly or disabled relatives – and who could read the writing on the wall — left Germany and Austria by the late 30’s, just as Otto Frank did with his family. Germany and Austria were emptied out of Jews well before the war began. It was their misfortune that they only went as far as other European countries, where they were rounded up when the Nazis invaded and occupied those places.
Apropos the discussion about my analogy, Mayor Adams actually made it clear in the post Neo linked later today, because his viewpoint doesn’t seem to be very popular in his Party.
https://nypost.com/2023/10/15/eric-adams-speaks-for-new-york-in-wake-of-hamas-atrocities/
“That swastika not only displays the pain of antisemitism, it displays the pain of racism among African Americans. You marched with us with Dr. King. You stood with us with all the fights we have. And I’m saying we’re going to stand with you and stand united together. And we don’t have to be all right. We should be angry at what we saw. Thank you, Israel.”
The analogy of the frog in the slowly heating pot might seem obscene. The frog takes nothing with him, leaves nothing he cares about behind, does not need to decide what, of what he cares about, can practically go with him, and is confident he can actually get over the rim. So, when convinced…goes.
But when those are not the circumstances, one thinks a million times, rationalizes, indulges in desperate wishful thinking, hopes maybe tomorrow will also be barely manageable. And the rim, such as it is, may well be insurmountable.
I was looking into the Dachau issue. I was reminded that, in 1933, the Nazis took power in a conventional parliamentary government with its conventional bureaus, offices, secretariat, departments; all like those of other functioning government in Europe and most of the Americas.
It was not immediately a matter of everybody in fancy uniforms saluting each other on street corners and screaming “Heil Hitler” endlessly.
It turns out that the first few fatalities at Dachau were investigated by some German version of Bureau of Prisons or something, wanting to see if the injuries matched the guards’ stories.
The liberators who arrived at the camp in April of 45 found it the recipient of the detritus of a collapsing system of concentration and death camps. There was a train of cars full of dead people, coming from some place. Dead and dying scattered around.
But only 20% of their official intake died. That’s over twelve years, averaging out to 1.75% per year. Compared to other countries..?
The conditions were horrible and designed to be so. But what it looked like from the outside was….deceptive.
It took time for the Nazis to distort, pervert, corrupt, and even displace the usual organs of governance and in the meantime, with what they were doing published on the official letterhead of formerly legitimate functions….there was room for self-deception. And you’d have to be pretty harsh to condemn such thinking, considering that the worst didn’t happen, either in the mass or individually, until later. And people don’t know later.
Speaking of “They lied, but that was the promise”, the US is now repeating that communist tactic. https://carolineglick.com/the-hostage-deal-and-how-america-has-turned-on-israel/
It was pointed out to me much closer to Oct. 7 that Israel needed US support, particularly in supplying weapons for which Israel itself had insufficient supply.
But now? “We now want Israel to use bombs that are limited to 350 lb” 14:12
Blinken: “No re-occupation of Gaza after the conflict ends, no attempt to blockade or besiege Gaza,” he said in Tokyo. “No reduction in the territory of Gaza.” 32:33
Israel was foolish to depend on the US, and mark my forecast, in short order, Israel will have no true friends among all the nations of the world.
And then, what will Israel do?
Here’s the story of some Jews who fled Europe as children or young men and returned as British commandos
X Troop: The Secret Jewish Commandos of World War II
https://www.amazon.com/Troop-Secret-Jewish-Commandos-World-ebook/dp/B08B3MLSY4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=11XE6JFAXRMI4&keywords=x+troop&qid=1698530335&sprefix=x+troop%2Caps%2C289&sr=8-1
And here are a couple concentration camp uprisings
Treblinka: The inspiring true story of the 600 Jews who revolted against their captors and burned a Nazi death camp to the ground.
https://www.amazon.com/Treblinka-Jean-Francois-Steiner/dp/0452011248/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1P94BQ12DSEYM&keywords=treblinka&qid=1698530402&sprefix=treblinka%2Caps%2C274&sr=8-2
Escape from Sobibor: The Heroic Story of the Jews Who Escaped from a Nazi Death Camp
https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Sobibor-Heroic-Story-Escaped/dp/0395318319/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=Rvj5l&content-id=amzn1.sym.579192ca-1482-4409-abe7-9e14f17ac827&pf_rd_p=579192ca-1482-4409-abe7-9e14f17ac827&pf_rd_r=144-0613095-1278065&pd_rd_wg=k3QXE&pd_rd_r=963950ad-e6f1-4293-a14e-8ba2b7d702cb&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_dsk
The move by the same name is fairly true to the book.
Amen Bill K. Amen. At the very least until 1/20/25, and quite possibly well beyond. Those of faith pray for Israel. They will need it.
I do pray, Mike, and though no nation will truly befriend Israel, God will not abandon His chosen people, c.f. Rom 11. And neither will we of faith. But hard times are coming. And my second forecast is that Israel will become tougher and tougher. The mixed multitude will evaporate, the weak will be purged, and the strong will be refined.
And very soon, those who call themselves Jews by heritage only, will call themselves Jews no longer. It will be too heavy a burden without faith to sustain them. Like the 10 spies who wanted to return to Egypt, they will not enter the promised land.
Question for the thread: There was a book written about the death camps that was largely sourced from a Jewish camp inmate / accountant that had kept the books at one of them, during its operation in WWII. He had a formidable memory and great attention to detail, and after the war, was able to recall most of material that he processed during the war, and also the people involved. As a consequence, a number of the Nazis were brought to justice. The book was written, I think, by a British journalist who essentially was telling the accountant’s story.
Does anybody know of this book? I’ve tried a score of different searches, but nothing pops up. I’ve been told it’s a remarkable account of retribution – I heard about it from our tour guide at a concentration camp in the Czech Republic this summer. If anyone knows of it, please share title / author, I’d very much like to read it. Thanks!
Aggie:
I couldn’t find it from the information you gave. Can you recall any more details?
T J,
Might want to be careful about calling the 1944 Warsaw Uprising a Jewish uprising. The 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was definitely a Jewish uprising, but the Warsaw Ghetto was pretty much, in the Nazis’ description, “liquidated” after that. The 1944 Warsaw Uprising was a Polish uprising. And Poles very much resent the conflation of the two.
@ Bill K > “And then, what will Israel do?”
I think the rest of the Arab & Muslims should think about that, because they really don’t want to find out.
Neo, thank you.
I think it may have been one of the Polish death camps, possibly Treblinka, but I’m not certain. The gist of the story was that the Jewish accountant had a nearly eidetic memory of the books he had kept, including account numbers and individuals, which greatly assisted the subsequent efforts to track down the war criminals. But further than that, and the note of the British writer that captured the story, I didn’t get any further information. I suppose it might have had limited distribution, perhaps European? I was unable to find anything, but I haven’t got access to the professional research-level search engines.
@Bill K
What disgusts me about this is what is unsaid. If nothing Hamas has done on 10/7 justifies occupation, loss of territory, or siege, WHAT ON EARTH COULD?
Gaza under Hamas is a totalitarian, genocidal terrorist state with a virtually identical policy to Jews as the Third Reich. This is not subject to Serious or Honest dispute, and wars of aggression are one case in international law where territorial annexation by force is accepted.
Stolen elections have consequences. For whatever one may say of Trump’s foibles, he would not be justifying this kind of backstabbing.
might be one of these
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/remembering-early-holocaust-researchers-who-gathered-evidence-nazi-crimes-180971586/
blinken is not his own man, whether he follows the instruction of effendi Malley, or just wags the tale of Arabist infected Foggy Bottom, that Robert Kaplan and before him, Steve Emerson recorded I can’t say, does it really matter,
i’ve concluded the nakbah to the palestinians, meaning they were upset the Jews survived at all, can we make any other determination, when jews have been cleansed of every part of dar al islam, from pakistan to morocco
https://twitter.com/AndrewRestuccia/status/1723051255776383215
so called intelligence,
how do people engage in such staggering acts of denial, and transposition,
because one is a terrorist group, and the others are too,
https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/1723200274192347191
I have two good friends, both neurosurgeons and brothers. The older brother was born on September 1, 1939 in Poland. In spite of this, his family made it to France and survived the war. I’ve never asked for details but have met his parents. The younger brother, and a sister, were born in France and later came to the US after the war. The older brother was the neurosurgeon for the USAF in Europe in the 1960s. He decided that he wanted to see where he was born. He went to a US embassy and got a civilian passport, telling them his was lost. In fact it listed him a USAF Lt Colonel. He was able to visit his birthplace and return. I doubt I would have risked it but he did. Both excellent neurosurgeons.
The 1944 Warsaw Uprising was a Polish uprising. And Poles very much resent the conflation of the two.
An anesthesiologist friend of mine participated in the 1944 up rising, survived and made it to the US after the war. He had some stories about it.
[liberal Jews in the US have] believed that their support for all the “catechism causes” of the left would give them some cover for being Jewish
——————–
Nope.
They believed they had left being Jewish behind. They believed they were part of a new cosmopolitan order. They did not expect that they would need “cover for being Jewish”….
This was more explicitly espoused by the Jews whose exit from the ghetto or the shtetl was via Communism…
Both the “Reform” Judaism of Western Europe and the “Labor Socialist” movements of Eastern European Jewry were intended to solve the “Jewish problem”. The Jews, emancipated, would march towards utopia with their fellows as equals of indeterminate ethnicity.
“Emancipated” in this case means throwing over anything uniquely Jewish, or recasting it as universal “Ethical Culture” or “Social Justice”.
The Reform Jews and Socialists were furious at those Jews who insisted the world make a place for them as they were, and clung to Jewish tradition.
This explains the virulent anti-religious program of Israel’s socialist elite – set strongly against the traditional beliefs of the majority of Jewish Israelis….
That split still leaves traces in the current situation in Israel – Oslo is very much the (hopefully) last gasp of this kumbaya one-World view of Israel among the nations.
Another good book (to add to the excellent suggestions of RockMeAle above) is:
“Sons and Soldiers
The Untold Story of the Jews Who Escaped the Nazis and Returned With the U.S. Army to Fight Hitler”
by Henderson, Bruce, 2017.
Henderson’s subject is the Jewish refugees from Germany who enlisted in the U.S. Army. The Army used many of them as interrogators (since they spoke perfect German and knew the culture inside out). He describes some grimly amusing scenes when captured Nazis realized they were confronted with a creature out of their darkest nightmares: a Jew. With a gun. In an American Army uniform.
What Mike Plaiss said on November 10, 2023 at 5:56 pm !!!
Thanks RockMeAle and John+F.+MacMichael for the book recommendations.
I don’t think I found what you are referring to. But I found this:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/oskar-groening-the-accountant-of-auschwitz
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gröning
Speaking of Jews fighting back, this passage always gives me goose bumps:
From Irwin Shaw’s “Act of Faith”:
Many gray faced men had stopped him humbly, looking searchingly at him, and had asked, peering at his long, lined, grimy face, under the anonymous helmet, “Are you a Jew?” Sometimes they asked it in English, sometimes French or Yiddish. He didn’t know French or Yiddish, but he learned to recognize the phrase. He had never understood exactly why they had asked the question, since they never demanded anything from him, rarely even could speak to him, until one day in Strassbourg, a little bent old man and a small, shapeless woman had stopped him, and asked, in English, if he was Jewish.
“Yes,” he said, smiling at them.
The two old people had smiled widely, like children. “Look,” the old man had said to his wife. “A young American soldier. A Jew. And so large and strong.” He had touched Seeger’s arm reverently with the tips of his fingers, then had touched the Garand he was carrying. “And such a beautiful rifle…”
And there, for a moment, although he was not particularly sensitive, Seeger got an inkling of why he had been stopped and questioned by so many before. Here, to these bent, exhausted old people, ravaged of their families, familiar with flight and death for so many years, was a symbol of continuing life. A large young man in the uniform of the liberator, blood, as they thought, of their blood, but not in hiding, not quivering in fear and helplessness, but striding secure and victorious down the street, armed and capable of inflicting terrible destruction on his enemies.
RockMeAle.
I love that story and the passage you quote is worth gold.
The larger theme of the story is different, but equally moving. He knows he can depend on his buddies, even if they’re somebody he never met, twenty years hence.. So he sells the souvenir Luger. Won’t need it at home.
@ miguel > “so called intelligence,”
X-Tweet quoted: @AndrewRestuccia
The U.S. intelligence community has growing confidence that reports on the death toll from health authorities in Hamas-controlled Gaza are roughly accurate, U.S. officials said.
And … we trust the USIC why?
@ Ben David > “Nope. They believed they had left being Jewish behind”
Thanks for the additional insights.
However, I wonder if both motives were operating, perhaps for different people depending on background and personal experience?
Or possibly even for the same person at different times?
AesopFan
I can see the motives; I’ve inferred them in people I know for lack of any better ideas.
But to what end? You have to value an end to strive for it. What did they see that they valued? What as in it for them? In with the right groups might help them socially or professionally. But personally? Why?
As to the Einsatzgruppen murderer’s reasoning; He was rationalizing something ne knew was horrid and sinful. I guess that he needed to was kind of an indication he had some humanity in him. Had to cover for himself. Not like he looked forward to it for the fun.
So which one is more guilty? The latter case might be excused because the evil had been installed from outside sources and I suppose you could say he didn’t know any better.
So you execute the first as a straight up murderer. The second as a menace to society with no redeeming possibilities.
And before the Judge….?
What as in it for them? In with the right groups might help them socially or professionally. But personally? Why?
Richard Aubrey:
Being in with the right groups which can help one socially or professionally is HUGE.
I don’t understand why conservatives find this so mysterious.
It’s not a character defect. Humans are wired to survive and being socially connected is a matter of survival, even today.
People who risk and lose their social connections take a big hit, even today.
I don’t understand why conservatives find this so mysterious.
@ Aubrey & huxley – not all conservatives find the “belonging” motive to be mysterious; I think the confusion comes with regard to the value of the groups one desires to belong to.
As More was pictured as asking in “A Man for All Seasons” (somewhat facetiously perhaps): ”
Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?”
If the group you are so intent on joining is morally corrupt, then what indeed is the personal benefit of belonging to it?
The dialogue between Douglas Murray and Piers Morgan has, IIRC, been referred to here before, but I think this rejoinder from Murray is relevant:
https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023/11/10/twenty-five-minutes-of-clarity-murray-rebukes-piers-morgan-over-gaza-war-n591482
Another good resource on the psychological pull of “belonging” and what it can lead to if you don’t pay attention to the details is by (who else?) C. S. Lewis.
https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/resources/reflections-june-2013/
A nice essay on the More quote:
https://ricochet.com/830368/quote-of-the-day-but-for-wales/
If the group you are so intent on joining is morally corrupt, then what indeed is the personal benefit of belonging to it?
AesopFan:
People often don’t decide to join groups so much as they find themselves joined to them.
My mother converted to Catholicism. Shazam! I was Catholic. Later I had to figure out what that meant and what it meant to me.
People live demanding lives. It’s easier to get by without questioning their group affiliations.
Many don’t enjoy solid family or social support such that they can afford to speculate on the morality of whatever group throws them a life vest.
It seems to me conservatives often don’t understand this. Or simply choose to be judgmental. And imagine they are exempt.
“…roughly accurate…”
Heh.
(I prefer the far more honest “fake but accurate”…)
Maybe conservatives as individuals tend to be okay not being part of a group. Don’t need to go the extra mile to join a group. Or there are groups which don’t require being stupid and mean-spirited.
I once remarked to a well-off woman about all the Youtube footage of good old boys in their bass boats rescuing people during and after Harvey. I know, I know, I tease. She was not impressed. Not much later, she was going on about how few, relatively, Texans have college degrees.
There are two groups represented there. One for me, should need arise, and one I am not desperate to join.
@Richard Aubrey: I live in an area that is some distance from the Houston metropolitan area and its outliers, and well away from the Gulf. After Harvey had hit, I ventured out to check some rural property I have, which took me on one of the main highways to Houston. There was an unending line of pickup trucks pulling small boats, most of them flat-bottomed john boats, on their way to Houston.
Overhead, a fairly steady line of National Guard helicopters were traveling from their logistics point in the disaster plan, ferrying in loads of water and so on. They continued for about 2 weeks, non-stop.
I bet there were plenty of rednecks behind the wheel of those trucks, but also probably more college degrees than that lady of yours would feel comfortable admitting to. I was very impressed by the unbroken line on the highway that stretched for miles, and incredibly proud of my fellow Texans. It’s worth remarking that they would gladly save that woman’s bacon, and not expect anything in return, and sad to realize that this expectation would probably be more disappointingly accurate than they would think. People like this lady, that are that far out of touch with society and their own humanity, are the source of many of our national problems.
Aggie.
The line around the convention center was three deep, as I recall hearing. And another endless line of people donating whatever they thought might be useful.
And Mattress Mack’s entire inventory would have had to be cleaned professionally and then sold as pre-owned.
There was a town in the northern portion of Michigan’s lower peninsula which was hit hard by a straight-line storm. Trees, old-growth monsters, pulled out of the ground. No street was open. Authorities called for anybody with a chain saw. Twenty minutes later, so I heard, they had to stop the influx. But the streets were cleared faster than expected. And firewood was cheap that season.
When the Red Cross surveys a building, say a church, as a potential shelter for disaster survivors, they look at square footage, rest rooms, size of kitchen, and if there’s an issue, the RC shows up and you give them the keys.
When Katrina was repopulating Texas, the Red Cross didn’t have the staff to do that so they asked the churches if the churches could manage it themselves.
“Excuse me…?”
Some Harvey footage showed a bunch of boats evacuating a nursing home. If you had to hoist a wheel chair bound elderly person on to the deck of a boat, there was a quarter ton of grits and gravy ready to do it like professionals. One guy told an elderly woman that, when they got to dry ground, there was a bus to take them to the Baptist church.
So somebody figured they’d need a bus. Never found out if he owned it or if the owner is still looking for it. But they got s bus. And the Baptists presumably looked at a map and figured they were on high ground–topographically speaking–and so they made the calls and the blast emails and showed up.
Tocqueville noted that about Americans. When need is, Americans show up.
But if they don’t have college degrees, maybe they’re not so….
Thomas Sowell said the best thing about his Harvard degree is he’s not impressed by Harvard degrees.
We’ve never had anything that serious around here. But when the usual, smaller stuff hits the fan, there’s never a shortage of people to lift, carry, provide first aid, find whatever, get a shovel. Never asked about their education.
Some years back, the outdoor Christmas program Journey to Bethlehem, was planning a dress rehearsal. A storm blew down the sets, which are quite elaborate and not small. One guy involved in the program got the word while at the gym. He hustled down there accompanied by four other guys from the gym, two of whom he knew.
That’s America.
That same spirit of “jump in and get it done” showed up in Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-stunning-response-15000-volunteers-fill-leadership-vacuum-to-help-victims-of-hamas/
Volunteers and donators didn’t ask about education, ideology, or anything else like that, only “What do you need?” and “How can I help?”
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