Bari Weiss on the Hamas terrorist attack and beyond — 17 Comments
She’s very committed to the ideology of a two state solution, somehow living in peace with the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank. What she doesn’t acknowledge and accept is that the Egyptians hate the people of Gaza and Jordanians feel the same way about the people on the West Bank. The King of Jordan announced that neither Jordon nor Egypt will accept refugees from Gaza. They hate the Palestinians because they have caused tremendous violence and danger within their own countries. If you remember the aftermath of Sadam Hussain’s invasion of Kuwait and subsequent expulsion, the Palestinians were thrown out of Kuwait because they sided with SH.
It is not possible for anyone to live in peace with the Palestinians, especially the Jews. My solution is to ship them off to Iran, which supports them and the destruction of the Jews.
I like Bari Weiss and I do find her to be mostly on the side of the angels, as it were, but it took her awhile to reach that destination. That she’s still finding her way there is revealed in the title of her video. The events of the past week did not provide lessons that many of us had to learn, they merely confirmed yet again what a lot of us already knew, and had known for a long time. One wonders what if any damage she did while she was still on the other side. Anyway, welcome to the team, Bari, even if you were late in getting here.
YES. This discussion is quite good.
Surprisingly, the aftermath of October 6th finds Victor Davis Hanson unusually optimistic. Let me explain.
He sees the growing pushback against barbarism like Hamas shows renewed staying power. It may even herald a return to serious defense of our values, such as Western Civilization itself.
In the past, he’s recognised the wisdom of the “monastery of the mind”, and preserving values like tradition through withdrawal from the public sphere.
Now, instead he heralds the growing power of motivating the millions to take back
from the Left’s institutional capture because “We outnumber You!” Fight their monopoly!
What changed his mind? Perhaps events at the Hoover Institution itself?
A meeting of the 400 overseers of the Institute (funder’s I gather) was scheduled close to the aftermath of October 6th. And the President of the Institute, Condoleeza Rice, declared a meeting under the signature Hoover Tower.
And she spoke so fervently, so reverently, and decisively that “we” are going to push back against horror — such that her eloquence moved some to tears.
Hanson declares his conviction that taking back our culture from the Woke Left and all its evils is now possible. The Overton window has shifted.
Agree with the sentiments here. She is very eloquent and a pleasure to listen to, but with regard to the West Bank, for example, she says,
if it can bring peace, give it back…but in the wake of this week, that view of mine that I’ve held my entire adult life, has been shaken to its core. Now, what would that look like to the security of Israel? What would happen if another terror group like Hamas came to power there? It would be an existential threat to Israel.
She would have done herself well to acknowledge that there were plenty who came to that conclusion long before “this week”, and maybe they weren’t bigots after all, which she would have likely once implied.
Re my preceding post — I have to admit that I’m a little weary of all the formerly leftist Jewish intellectuals who have seen the light and renounced their leftist views, but only after playing a destructive role as enthusiastic proponents of leftist causes and ideologies. You may say I’m being ungenerous in saying this; I mean, better late than never, right? But still . . .
@ Paul > “She’s very committed to the ideology of a two state solution,”
There are already two states: de facto for many years, increasingly de jure as Gaza receives more international recognition as having the attributes of at least a “common law” state.
Israel gave away land captured in lawful warfare to create that state.
But, as Bari said, they did not get peace in return.
Takes some people a long time to give up their illusions and dreams, but as others have said, better late than never.
Jordan Rivers, thanks for the link to Daniel Greenfield’s essay.
He is thinking along the same lines as I am.
My comment yesterday on the open thread ( October 19, 2023 at 7:13 pm) put the blame where it belongs – radical, fundamental Islam. It’s time to recognize this is not going away.
Israel can defeat Hamas, but the devotion to killing or converting of the infidels will remain. The radical jihadis are as dangerous as a rabid dog and should be treated as such by us.
Old Joe B. warned against Islamophobia in last night’s speech. It’s not a phobia to be on guard and stand up against vicious killers.
JJ: “It’s not a phobia to be on guard and stand up against vicious killers.” Amen. A “phobia” is an exaggerated, irrational fear. Opposing fanatic Islamism is neither exaggerated nor irrational.
Natalee Holloway’s vision of a vacation in Aruba : Joran Van Der Sloot :: Bari Weiss’ vision of a “Two State Solution” : HamasDevils
Jordan, I pointed that out on another post. Even some of the Arabs are coming to that conclusion.
I remember when I first went to Israel in the early eighties. It was after the shine was off the Camp David apple. Israelis had thought that “peace” with Egypt meant having a “relationship,” or “being friends.” Israelis flocked as tourists to Egypt. Egyptians to Israel? Not so much. The Israelis raised that they don’t have “peace” with Egypt so much as they just no longer were at East with them: The opposite of “war” isn’t really “peace” — it’s “not war.”
I think that’s why Israelis thought any sort of land for “peace” (i.e., “not war”) was highly possible and why they were willing to do it. They learned that merely “co-existing” on opposite sides of a border was fine. Unfortunately, Hamas, and really the PA just wants all of “the river to the sea” to be Judenrien. “Not war” isn’t enough — the only solution as far as their concerned is the annihilation of Israel.
The West, in general, has always been trying to find the good in Islam when their is none. Two state solutions, jizya, economic aid, negotiations. None of these work. We refuse to see because the next step is beyond our comprehension. We make up our own reality to fit our fantasy.
if the moslem world dedicated itself to something other than war and hate,
The big question is what happens after Israel has secured Gaza and eliminated Hamas there?
A re-occupation of Gaza is a non-starter; this will be a nightmare for Israel occupying a region where every citizen hates the occupier and any Israeli in Gaza trying to keep the peace there will be a target for murder .
Seems to me the only solution is for Israel to build a very high and thick wall and create a physical barrier between Gaza and Israel.
Then, Israel should give Gaza a period of time to develop its own source of electricity and water, etc., as well as ceasing any and all interaction between the Gazans and Israelis. No more work permits for Gazans, no more hospital trips into Israel for Gazans, zero, zilch interactions.
Of course, from the Israeli side, this wall must be well guarded to prevent the inevitable attacks from the “new” Hamas that will inevitably establish itself in an isolated Gaza.
Gaza has an ample sea front on the Mediterranean from which it can import/export goods and they do not need Israel to provide them access to goods.
Palestinians are not welcome in any Arab nation and the Palestinians will never accept the existence of Israel. The Arabs have totally isolated the Palestinians and Israel needs to do likewise.
It is very clear that there is no concession that Israel can make that will diminish the hatred the palestinians have for Jews in general and specifically Israeli Jews.
If Bari Weiss thinks the recent events in Israel are a wake up call to many liberals, she will learn she is being too optimistic.
As an analogy, despite communism resulting in the deaths of about 100 MILLION souls since 1917, there are still many, many “useful idiots” – here in the USA and really everywhere – that if given the choice, would gladly impose that form of tyranny upon the people.
A deep seated political ideology is similar to a profound religious belief; it is unshakable. Those liberal progressives – Jewish or otherwise – that have historically been sympathetic to the palestinian cause, will just find a way to blame Israel for the targeted murder of Israeli women , children and babies.
You may now work full-time from the convenience of your own home! As technology and az simple internet connection make it easier to locate online job, nearly 57 million people in the United States alone have already shifted to self-
When you have a perimeter, what’s outside the perimeter? What’s outside the perimeter is whatever you didn’t want inside. Only now you have more frontage to guard. And no more influence of any kind than you did before.
Maybe Mossad can get to pre-need assassination. Kill the boss BEFORE he runs an op. And his deputy.
For Israel, there will always be an outside-the-perimeter, no matter the size or character of the, possibly speaking metaphorically, wall.
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She’s very committed to the ideology of a two state solution, somehow living in peace with the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank. What she doesn’t acknowledge and accept is that the Egyptians hate the people of Gaza and Jordanians feel the same way about the people on the West Bank. The King of Jordan announced that neither Jordon nor Egypt will accept refugees from Gaza. They hate the Palestinians because they have caused tremendous violence and danger within their own countries. If you remember the aftermath of Sadam Hussain’s invasion of Kuwait and subsequent expulsion, the Palestinians were thrown out of Kuwait because they sided with SH.
It is not possible for anyone to live in peace with the Palestinians, especially the Jews. My solution is to ship them off to Iran, which supports them and the destruction of the Jews.
I like Bari Weiss and I do find her to be mostly on the side of the angels, as it were, but it took her awhile to reach that destination. That she’s still finding her way there is revealed in the title of her video. The events of the past week did not provide lessons that many of us had to learn, they merely confirmed yet again what a lot of us already knew, and had known for a long time. One wonders what if any damage she did while she was still on the other side. Anyway, welcome to the team, Bari, even if you were late in getting here.
YES. This discussion is quite good.
Surprisingly, the aftermath of October 6th finds Victor Davis Hanson unusually optimistic. Let me explain.
He sees the growing pushback against barbarism like Hamas shows renewed staying power. It may even herald a return to serious defense of our values, such as Western Civilization itself.
In the past, he’s recognised the wisdom of the “monastery of the mind”, and preserving values like tradition through withdrawal from the public sphere.
Now, instead he heralds the growing power of motivating the millions to take back
from the Left’s institutional capture because “We outnumber You!” Fight their monopoly!
What changed his mind? Perhaps events at the Hoover Institution itself?
A meeting of the 400 overseers of the Institute (funder’s I gather) was scheduled close to the aftermath of October 6th. And the President of the Institute, Condoleeza Rice, declared a meeting under the signature Hoover Tower.
And she spoke so fervently, so reverently, and decisively that “we” are going to push back against horror — such that her eloquence moved some to tears.
Hanson declares his conviction that taking back our culture from the Woke Left and all its evils is now possible. The Overton window has shifted.
But will we make good on this prospect? I wonder.
SEE especially from 50m through 63 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG0cgViEcc8
Agree with the sentiments here. She is very eloquent and a pleasure to listen to, but with regard to the West Bank, for example, she says,
if it can bring peace, give it back…but in the wake of this week, that view of mine that I’ve held my entire adult life, has been shaken to its core. Now, what would that look like to the security of Israel? What would happen if another terror group like Hamas came to power there? It would be an existential threat to Israel.
She would have done herself well to acknowledge that there were plenty who came to that conclusion long before “this week”, and maybe they weren’t bigots after all, which she would have likely once implied.
Re my preceding post — I have to admit that I’m a little weary of all the formerly leftist Jewish intellectuals who have seen the light and renounced their leftist views, but only after playing a destructive role as enthusiastic proponents of leftist causes and ideologies. You may say I’m being ungenerous in saying this; I mean, better late than never, right? But still . . .
It’s Islam, Stupid
Daniel Greenfield doesn’t hold back: https://www.frontpagemag.com/its-islam-stupid/
@ Paul > “She’s very committed to the ideology of a two state solution,”
There are already two states: de facto for many years, increasingly de jure as Gaza receives more international recognition as having the attributes of at least a “common law” state.
Israel gave away land captured in lawful warfare to create that state.
But, as Bari said, they did not get peace in return.
Takes some people a long time to give up their illusions and dreams, but as others have said, better late than never.
Jordan Rivers, thanks for the link to Daniel Greenfield’s essay.
He is thinking along the same lines as I am.
My comment yesterday on the open thread ( October 19, 2023 at 7:13 pm) put the blame where it belongs – radical, fundamental Islam. It’s time to recognize this is not going away.
Israel can defeat Hamas, but the devotion to killing or converting of the infidels will remain. The radical jihadis are as dangerous as a rabid dog and should be treated as such by us.
Old Joe B. warned against Islamophobia in last night’s speech. It’s not a phobia to be on guard and stand up against vicious killers.
JJ: “It’s not a phobia to be on guard and stand up against vicious killers.” Amen. A “phobia” is an exaggerated, irrational fear. Opposing fanatic Islamism is neither exaggerated nor irrational.
Natalee Holloway’s vision of a vacation in Aruba : Joran Van Der Sloot :: Bari Weiss’ vision of a “Two State Solution” : HamasDevils
Jordan, I pointed that out on another post. Even some of the Arabs are coming to that conclusion.
https://www.raymondibrahim.com/2015/01/01/egypts-sisi-islamic-thinking-is-antagonizing-the-entire-world/
Churchill said the same 100 years ago.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/69212-how-dreadful-are-the-curses-which-mohammedanism-lays-on-its
I remember when I first went to Israel in the early eighties. It was after the shine was off the Camp David apple. Israelis had thought that “peace” with Egypt meant having a “relationship,” or “being friends.” Israelis flocked as tourists to Egypt. Egyptians to Israel? Not so much. The Israelis raised that they don’t have “peace” with Egypt so much as they just no longer were at East with them: The opposite of “war” isn’t really “peace” — it’s “not war.”
I think that’s why Israelis thought any sort of land for “peace” (i.e., “not war”) was highly possible and why they were willing to do it. They learned that merely “co-existing” on opposite sides of a border was fine. Unfortunately, Hamas, and really the PA just wants all of “the river to the sea” to be Judenrien. “Not war” isn’t enough — the only solution as far as their concerned is the annihilation of Israel.
The West, in general, has always been trying to find the good in Islam when their is none. Two state solutions, jizya, economic aid, negotiations. None of these work. We refuse to see because the next step is beyond our comprehension. We make up our own reality to fit our fantasy.
if the moslem world dedicated itself to something other than war and hate,
https://twitter.com/ELuttwak/status/1715459811326755316
The big question is what happens after Israel has secured Gaza and eliminated Hamas there?
A re-occupation of Gaza is a non-starter; this will be a nightmare for Israel occupying a region where every citizen hates the occupier and any Israeli in Gaza trying to keep the peace there will be a target for murder .
Seems to me the only solution is for Israel to build a very high and thick wall and create a physical barrier between Gaza and Israel.
Then, Israel should give Gaza a period of time to develop its own source of electricity and water, etc., as well as ceasing any and all interaction between the Gazans and Israelis. No more work permits for Gazans, no more hospital trips into Israel for Gazans, zero, zilch interactions.
Of course, from the Israeli side, this wall must be well guarded to prevent the inevitable attacks from the “new” Hamas that will inevitably establish itself in an isolated Gaza.
Gaza has an ample sea front on the Mediterranean from which it can import/export goods and they do not need Israel to provide them access to goods.
Palestinians are not welcome in any Arab nation and the Palestinians will never accept the existence of Israel. The Arabs have totally isolated the Palestinians and Israel needs to do likewise.
It is very clear that there is no concession that Israel can make that will diminish the hatred the palestinians have for Jews in general and specifically Israeli Jews.
If Bari Weiss thinks the recent events in Israel are a wake up call to many liberals, she will learn she is being too optimistic.
As an analogy, despite communism resulting in the deaths of about 100 MILLION souls since 1917, there are still many, many “useful idiots” – here in the USA and really everywhere – that if given the choice, would gladly impose that form of tyranny upon the people.
A deep seated political ideology is similar to a profound religious belief; it is unshakable. Those liberal progressives – Jewish or otherwise – that have historically been sympathetic to the palestinian cause, will just find a way to blame Israel for the targeted murder of Israeli women , children and babies.
You may now work full-time from the convenience of your own home! As technology and az simple internet connection make it easier to locate online job, nearly 57 million people in the United States alone have already shifted to self-
employment…. https://bizzworld1.blogspot.com/
When you have a perimeter, what’s outside the perimeter? What’s outside the perimeter is whatever you didn’t want inside. Only now you have more frontage to guard. And no more influence of any kind than you did before.
Maybe Mossad can get to pre-need assassination. Kill the boss BEFORE he runs an op. And his deputy.
For Israel, there will always be an outside-the-perimeter, no matter the size or character of the, possibly speaking metaphorically, wall.