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Home » On Hamas’ barbarity and the desire for Israeli retaliation

On Hamas’ barbarity and the desire for Israeli retaliation

The New Neo Posted on by

There are horrific videos of what Hamas has done in Israel today; please see this. A description:

At least 150 Israelis have been murdered and over 1,000 wounded by terrorist intruders from Gaza. Dozens of Israelis, including women and children, have been captured by Hamas taken into Gaza, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) confirmed.

Bodies of murdered Israelis have been “paraded” to cheering civilians. Not only does this satisfy the hatred of Palestinians toward Israel, but it is designed to provoke retaliation by Israel and place Israelis in the position of arousing the further ire of the many segments of the world that already hate Israel. Hamas is well aware of the propaganda value of the entire action/reaction.

Israel has no choice. Hamas and Iran are well aware of that, and have factored it into their calculations, and are more than willing to pay the price because they feel in the end it will help them. I hope their calculations are wrong.

Comments

On Hamas’ barbarity and the desire for Israeli retaliation — 64 Comments

  1. I can’t see how Israel can do anything other than re-occupy demilitarize Gaza. I wouldn’t be surprised if they target the leadership of Hamas, wherever it happens to be. They can’t do anything less, and probably need to do more.

    I wonder what Iran’s next move will be, though. Is Iran going to use the Israeli retaliation to start a larger middle eastern war, or is their goal to simply drive apart Israel and the Sunni states?

    We live in interesting times.

  2. At your Jerusalem Post link, a message from Netanyahu telling people in Gaza to “get out.” I don’t know to where, however. Egyptians won’t let them in. This is likely to be ugly, and Hamas doesn’t care what happens to its own population.

    I agree that Israel has no choice.

  3. Kate:

    Palestinians are actually Jordanians, for the most part. But they’ve worn out their welcome with their own people and just about all the Arab countries. They violently destabilized Jordan and Lebanon long ago. There are currently 68 Palestinian refugee camps; see this. They are kept in camps as sorts of pets of the UN in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

  4. It seems unlikely that there could be this much of an intelligence failure by Mossad and the IDF. I hope Israel retaliates with full force and ends this evil.
    Praying for all.

  5. Yes, a very very bad situation. Israel will attack Hamas with great force. I just wonder if they will attack Iran. I am sure that the Israel military is keeping an eye out on there other borders. Yes, it really caught Israel by surprise. The attacks were well planned, financed and executed with more sophistication that Hamas can muster. Iranian fingerprints are all over the attack.
    The taking of Hostages will certainly enrage the Israelis more.
    Yes the supporters of Hamas will condemn what ever action Israel takes. The Dumb Idjt that pulled the alarm in the House has said already that Israel needs to change its ways.
    The Rep House members better get a new leader Monday. Fast.

  6. Neo, are the people in Gaza Jordanians? I know the ones on the “West Bank” are. When I lived in Egypt, I saw that Gazans were treated as troublemakers, not wanted in Egypt.

  7. Palestinians are actually Jordanians,
    ==
    The Arabs in the West Bank received Jordanian citizenship in 1950 and quite a number of them decamped to the Transjordan in 1967. Others found work in the Gulf Emirates. Note, the Gulf Emirates naturalize very few people – maybe a two digit population most years. The Arabs who landed in Gaza and their descendants have been stateless since 1949. If I’m not mistaken, the same applies to Arabs who landed in UNRWA camps in Egypt proper, Lebanon, and Syria. What franchises they have in each country vary, but they were not offered citizenship.

  8. Neo, so the Palestinians are the UN’s Commander and Israel is the secret service then?

  9. That’s what I thought, Art Deco. Gazans, according to Wikipedia, got “All Palestine” passports from late 1948. They were never part of Jordan. Essentially, this is a tiny stateless territory.

    If they wanted to evacuate, they’d have to go by sea, I suppose, north to Lebanon, Syria, or Turkey. I doubt they’d be especially welcome in any of those places.

  10. Egypt had them till ’67, Nevitot, the border settlement was founded in 1956, by emigres from Morocco

  11. Get ready for the “blow back” as Israel retaliates.

    As the Israeli destruction of Hamas proceeds, along with the inevitable deaths of many residents of the Gaza Strip, the world “community” will convene at the UN to condemn Israeli actions.

    Note that the world community never really “comes together” to promote/condemn anything or any nation, unless of course it’s to condemn Israel, and bingo, like rats fleeing a sinking ship they all leap in unison.
    (Aren’t we all glad the USA is a member of the UN?)

    The deaths of ordinary citizens of the Gaza Strip, of course, will be a desired outcome as far as HAMAS, Iran, the PLO and Hezbollah are concerned, because it will increase hatred of Israel (instead of any directed towards the HAMAS thug leaders) , further solidify HAMAS control of Gaza and place on the back burner any dissatisfaction Gaza residents have about their miserable existence under the HAMAS thug leadership.

    I am sure many of you will be pleased to know that the USA has sent millions of $$$$ (of OUR tax dollars) to HAMAS as foreign aide. Ah yes, “our” govt once again looking out for our best interests.

    Will be interesting to see how many US academics, media outlets and politicians will blame Israel for “causing” the attacks.

  12. The interesting thing about watching this in the news, from an American Gentile perspective, is that because this invasion happened on a Jewish holy day which was also Shabbat, many American commentators who might have insight into what is happening were offline until sundown, and many still are, probably. Just ten minutes from sundown here in central NC. Jeff Dunetz posted something, linked at the Instapundit, and he makes a good point. People who have cousins and friends in Israel might want to NOT post their sighting of various military units on the move. Hamas reads the internet also.

  13. I’m positive Biden will order Israel to refrain from exterminating Hamas. I hope that Israel has learned its lesson and tells the US to GTH.

  14. The so-called Palestinians have been held hostage by Hamas for decades now, or are Hamas enablers. Were I Netanyahu, I’d give them a week to evacuate, then carpet bomb Gaza into oblivion and seize the entire West Bank, not one structure left standing in Gaza. Just leave Gaza in rubble, unite Jerusalem. The dictatorial regimes that form a majority on the UN General Assembly will squawk, but that can and should be ignored.
    Palestinians are not exactly desirable people. Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey will not let them in.

  15. Kate: Interesting point in re Shabbat, thanks for posting.
    Bauxite, Shirehome, JohnTyler, JackWayne and Cicero: Agree – wish I could upvote comments here.
    Other commenters: Thank you for the info on Palestinians.

  16. I think when the cheering enemy population is dragging your murdered civilians through the street, it means they want a no limits war. Give it to them. A week to evacuate? Screw that. Napalm the crap out of them.

  17. I agree with CE. Israel shouldnt concern itself with “collateral” death. I consider Palestinian children legitimate targets.

  20. Napalm is outlawed. White Phosphorus (WP) use is only supposed to be used for smoke. But thermobaric ordnance may be an option. Or just plain old HE. Couldn’t happen to a more civil society.

  21. Now that Hamas has successfully staged a surprise attack on Israel, lobbed thousands of rockets into that country, killed many civilians, and taken an unknown number of hostages, all of the usual suspects who hate Israel-the Saudis and other Muslim countries, the UN, etc.–are calling for a “halt to the violence” i.e. they want to prevent Israel from taking any retaliatory actions against Hamas and the Palestinians and, if the Israelis do retaliate, the story will be the Israeli’s retaliation, not the attack by Hamas which provoked that retaliation.

  25. Germany & Japan, despite coming under collectivist and militarist governments in the 30’s, nevertheless had a society with some decency upon which to fall back and evolve. There is little evidence that the residents of the Gaza strip or West bank do. Yes, crush them militarily and prevent the world from funding their next war, but I see little hope for a German/Japanese evolution.
    It is up to the other Arab/Muslim states to force the change in Gaza/West Bank society; the West can’t do it. Similar to the responsibility of the black community to change the culture of crime, drugs and fatherless homes in their community; whitey can’t do it.

  26. sdferr:

    Thanks for the link. Caroline Glick spoke clearly, Hamas must be obliterated. The “Deterrence policy” with them has utterly failed.

  27. Thanks for the Caroline Glick link sdferr. It was very painful to watch, however.

  28. CB:

    Other things that aren’t outlawed can do the job. And the IDF may not have any napalm on hand anyway.

  29. Since the actual source of the threat to Israel is Islam itself, even completely wiping out Hamas would simply cut off but one of the Islamic hydra’s heads.

    70 plus years of Israel playing ‘Whac-A-Mole’…

    Instead, present Islam with the certainty of future consequences for any further terrorism. Consequences that the Islamists will find intolerable.

    Consequence must not be merely proportionate, it must deter by attacking what the enemy values. Islamists do not value human life, like all fanatics their values are ideological.

    Since Hamas is an Iranian controlled proxy, Israel should destroy Iran’s ‘sacred’ city of Qom. Declaring it the consequence for Iran’s mass slaughter.

    Then declare that any future Islamist terrorist attacks will result in the loss of another ‘sacred’ Islamic site.

    Declare that the day that Israel is attacked with nuclear weapons is the day that both the Dome of the Rock and Mecca itself… will cease to exist.

    You deter a mortal enemy by declaring consequences
    that for them would be utterly intolerable.

    Israel has refused to identify the ideological source of its mortal enemy, so for Islam… there have been no consequences. It’s like if we had fought the Nazis but refused to condemn Nazism itself.

    How many more Israelis’ must be slaughtered before Israel will name its enemy and bring war to that enemy?

  30. Napalm is easy to make. They must face a biblical response.

    “They took a number of young women captive there. This video has been seen millions of times. There is a naked young woman in the back of a truck, murdered (and God knows what else) by the Palestinians. The Arabs in the truck are yelling ‘Allahu Akbar!’ ‘God is great!’ Terrific religion they’ve got there. What is notable, I think, is the jubilant reaction of the crowd. Note the boy who spits on the woman’s corpse. The idea that what is happening is a ‘terrorist attack’ by “Hamas” is a fiction. Hamas is a political entity that rules Gaza with the support of the overwhelming majority of the Palestinians who live there. “

  31. On the night of Pearl Harbor, CNO Stark gave the order “Execute against Japan unrestricted air and submarine warfare.”

  32. Thanks to sdferr for providing a link to Caroline Glick’s video.

    https://www.jns.org/breaking-news-israel-at-war-the-caroline-glick-show-in-focus/

    Glick recorded her report in the basement studio that doubles as a bomb shelter. Here are a few of the points that she made.

    1. I’ve been wondering about the possibility of a coordinated invasion, by Hezbollah, along Israel’s northern border. Glick confirms that many people there are talking about it, even expecting it. Despite that, there are currently large troop movements from north to south.

    2. Earlier today, Netanyahu made a speech in which he called for the evacuation of all civilians from Gaza. I’ve also read, in “The Jerusalem Post,” that the IDF has cut off all electricity to Gaza. I hope that these two steps portend a comprehensive military operation in Gaza. Israel seems to recognize that they’re well past the point of a punitive police action.

    3. Glick believes that the entire strategy of static defense has been discredited. Both the missile defense shield and the early warning sirens have failed. She says that there’s a lot of chatter about the possibility that these failures are due to cyber-attacks.

  34. Chases Eagles:

    Leave it to the IDF to decide what to do, how best to kill Hamas, and what to spend their time on. I doubt seriously that the IDF is putting on the kid gloves and breaking out the bean bag rounds.

    Elephant In The Room asks what has been Russian involvement? cui bono

  36. Others have noted that this surprise attack is 50 years after the surprise attack of the Yom Kippur War, 1973. Another intelligence failure asked Carolyn Glick.

    Although Hamas isn’t in the same league as Egypt or Syria. Hamas is more bloodthirsty; what happens when a terrorist organization becomes a “state.”

  37. Many infuriating quotes in the article. Such as,

    For one sign of Israel’s acquiescence to Hamas rule, note that it permits and even encourages the government of Qatar to send Hamas $30 million a month.

    As Kate rightly said in an earlier post, money is fungible.

  38. In the prior Hamas rocket war and before Hamas was using concrete delivered for civilian infrastructure to construct tunnel networks to get under the Israel border (and Egyptian border – smuggling) and for bunkers to avoid air strikes. Money and concrete were and are fungible.

    Too many Hamas leaders have been allowed to live.

  42. Leave it to the IDF to decide what to do

    Om, you have opinions on damn near everything. You are basically telling me to shut up.

  43. Chases Eagles is being oppressed.

    The IDF can run their war without our input, but you have a thing for napalm it seems.

    If you don’t want anyone to interact with what you say ….. But that would be self censoring.

    I don’t know much about a lot but know a little about a few things. You may disagree.

  44. In his latest video Peter Zeihan highlights a couple interesting items.

    First, Ukraine immediately backed Israel against Hamas, so perhaps Israel, currently noncommittal on Ukraine, may return the favor to Ukraine.

    Second, Zeihan says the younger generation in Saudi Arabia wants to ditch the Palestinians and normalize relations with Israel. That would be great.

    I’ve been reading rumblings of this for some time. Not that the Saudis are kumbaya with the Israelis, but the Saudis’ real enemy is Iran.

    –Peter Zeihan, “Hamas Attacks Israel and Netanyahu Declares War”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7TGj7iLpoA

  45. This war will be terrible, but Israel, once again, doesn’t have a choice.
    The Democrats role in helping Iran, and hamas, is pretty clear, at least to me.
    Israel stands alone, as usual. We may send aid, but certainly not on the scale we have done for Ukraine- I’m not sure the Israelis are as corrupt as the Ukrainians-and the Dems and a few republicans have shown they are no friends of Israel.
    It will quite possibly be a two or three front war-once the IDF goes into Gaza, Irans proxies in the north might well invade.
    What happened today is horrific, and what is coming will be much much worse. As Caroline Glick said(thanks for the link sdferr) the past way of doing things is over. This will be a war to eradicate Hamas, and many others who share their passion to kill Jews. Her video was very calm, although her pain, and anger was there, controlled. My friends here, with family and friends in Tel Aviv and the south, have reacted the same way. Israel is in a fight for its existence, once again. No more negotiations, no token strikes on a terrorist. It’s pretty much all of nothing.
    I would wish for a stronger government in America, but that isn’t going to happen.
    My hope is that people in America, and Europe, will finally see Iran and its proxies for what they are- savage murderers, pure evil.

  50. neo (10:45 pm) said: “Nobody seems to like the Palestinians except Iran and western intellectuals.”

    . . . and western intellectual wannabees, and western in-crowd people who have imbibed the relentless left wing propagandizing/gaslighting, even if they are neither intellectuals and make no pretense of being intellectuals.

  51. I agree Jim, Israel is alone. I’d like to think the U.S. is maximizing all efforts to try and make sure this stays isolated to Gaza, but I have little faith that even that is true. And before it’s over I expect many nations expressing “unequivocal” support for Israel will start to go wobbly.

  53. “I’d like to think the U.S. is maximizing all efforts to try and make sure this stays isolated to Gaza…”

    If so, then you’d have to ignore “Biden”‘s oh-so-generous hearting of Lebanon (AKA Hezbullah) and Hezbullah’s patron in Teheran, since January 2021 (and before that, from 2009 to 2016).

    Perhaps you meant to say, “I’d like to think the U.S. is maximizing all efforts to MAKE IT APPEAR AS THOUGH IT IS [trying to] make sure this stays isolated to Gaza…”?

  54. Om, I’m not oppressed. You are demonstrating as you do nearly everyday that you are an asshole. You call other commenters names like pyro because they don’t agree with you.

    “Leave it to the IDF to decide what to do”
    Means discussion over.

    So discussion over.

  55. “…hearting…Hezbullah’s patron in Teheran…”, continued…

    “High-Level Iranian Spy Ring Busted in Washington;
    “The trail that leads from Tehran to D.C. passes directly through the offices of Robert Malley and the International Crisis Group”—
    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/iran-spy-ring-robert-malley-lee-smith

    The really cool and clever thing about “Biden” using Malley as cover is that “Biden” can deflect the “blame” onto Malley(!)…for public consumption—that always-important question of “optics”—and then ensure that Malley is given a plum post at Princeton!! (for, so willingly “taking one for the team”).

    Just another shining example of “Biden” protecting one’s own…

  56. Chases Eagles certainly acts oppressed; saying that IDF may not want to use napalm for their own reasons is unacceptable to Chases Eagles. That seems a bit insecure.

    When someone says the US government system is so far gone that it should be burned to the ground and started again from scratch, is a bit extreme and possibly egotistical. Not that other steps haven’t been tried yet, such as a Convention of States, Article 5. But that would take a lot of work and wouldn’t be a sure fire solution, the Pyro approach. With napalm? Otay.

    Such folks may think they are smarter and more astute that those old dead guys. Or just want to be the new tyrants? Again, whatever.

    Enjoy your sunsets and life on the water.

  59. I was hoping for a slow news day on our first week-end home —

    Kate mentioned that Jeff Dunetz had some good advice:
    https://lidblog.com/so-it-will-be-war-between-us-hamas-attacts-israel/

    2) Shut UP. Not kidding. If, perchance, you see a troop movement on YouTube, Or your cousin Mika, who lives in Tel Aviv, says she saw a squadron marching south, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF: Hamas has computers also you will be telling Hamas the IDF’s next move.

    3) Unless you have heard it from the IDF or the Israeli govt, consider it a lie. Even if you read it in a trusted newspaper, reports from the war zone are made very fast and include many mistakes.

    The most puzzling thing about the Hama attack was that the Israeli defense forces totally missed it. So far, this is the most cogent explanation I have seen.
    https://freebeacon.com/national-security/israels-distracted-deep-state/

    Washington Free Beacon Editors
    October 7, 2023
    In a perverse way it’s understandable that Israel’s legendary intelligence and security services failed to prevent the worst mass killing of Jews in their country in a half century. They’ve been distracted, and unforgivably so.

    In the last year, members of Mossad and Shin Bet have been preoccupied with resisting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition government and its efforts to reform an imperious and undemocratic justice system.

    In addition to the open letters from former top spies and security chiefs decrying Netanyahu’s judicial reforms, hundreds of elite reservists in March said they would not be showing up to their posts in protest of the prime minister.

    Earlier this year, the Times of Israel reported that Mossad chief David Barnea gave the green light to some of his charges to participate in the protests. One U.S. intelligence document posted to a Discord server by the disgraced Air National Guardsman Jack Teixeira said that Mossad’s leadership went further: that Mossad leaders “advocated for Mossad officials and Israeli citizens to protest the new Israeli Government’s proposed judicial reforms, including several explicit calls to action that decried the Israeli Government, according to signals intelligence.” And last month, the former Mossad chief Tamir Pardo blurted out that he believed his country was now an “apartheid state,” repeating the talking points of Israel’s enemies.

    Today’s terror attacks are a sobering reminder than the Shin Bet and the Mossad should keep the main thing the main thing. Israel has wired Gaza with listening posts, hidden cameras and human assets. If the Shin Bet and Mossad failed to detect a plot of this magnitude then perhaps it should consider leaving politics to the politicians. Instead of “defending democracy,” the spies and security chiefs should get back to defending Israel.

    This revolt of Israel’s deep state reminds us of the stunts pulled by the FBI and the permanent bureaucracy in the Trump years. There were leaks, spurious investigations and former senior officials spreading the innuendo that Trump and his people were Russian agents. All of this was justified in the name of defending our democracy from its elected leader.

    The difference is that Israel has a much smaller margin of error than America. Our republic managed to survive the deep state’s resistance to Trump because America remains the strongest and wealthiest country in the world. Israel is not so lucky.

    When the institutions and leaders entrusted with the security of the world’s only Jewish state play politics instead of doing their jobs, catastrophe follows.

    There will be a lot of analyses, punditry, and dot-connecting going forward, but the main outline is already clear: Hamas finally cashed the checks given to them by Obama and Biden.

  60. The Beacon’s editors are correct in their post, but this paragraph applies to more than just Israel.
    https://freebeacon.com/national-security/on-israels-9-11-jewish-state-must-settle-for-nothing-less-than-total-victory/

    It is a precious thing for a country to have a military whose strength, intelligence, and reliability discourages war-making against it, and it would be a catastrophe if the perception and reality of Israel’s military were to be replaced by incompetence, weakness, and lack of vision.

  61. More on the Malley story Barry mentioned, but I excerpt only the final graf, because it is typical of a lot of the stories I’ve read today which include pious observations about the naïve US government (“Doesn’t Biden realize that money given to Iran is fungible?”) and pompous advice to the WH to buckle down and support Israel for a change.
    https://freebeacon.com/national-security/on-robert-malley-we-tried-to-warn-you/

    If only the Biden administration had listened to Kredo’s warnings, it would be spared the scandal and humiliation today of having entrusted its Iran policy to a man who can’t understand that Iran’s regime is not a friend, it’s an enemy. If only the Biden administration had listened to Kredo’s warnings, the Pentagon would be spared a potential Iranian agent in its ranks.

    There’s a lesson here somewhere.

    The lesson is that NONE of this administration’s actions in the Middle East are accidental, mistaken, naïve, or hapless incompetence: they are deliberate, long-planned, and malevolent.

    Some of the evidence is here:
    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/what-just-happened-in-israel

    One particular “receipt” in support, which I haven’t seen elsewhere, in addition to the better-known news that VDH rehearses:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/10/07/victor-davis-hanson-discusses-elevated-picture-of-hamas-attack-against-israel/

    Note as well that the Biden administration has siphoned off key weapons and munitions from stockpiles inside Israel to transfer them to Ukraine. The so-called “War Reserve Ammunition—Israel” is all but depleted of just the sorts of weapons needed in the present crisis.

  62. See also the post linked by sdferr on October 7, 2023 at 9:08 pm.
    “America’s Betrayal of Israel — A decade of perverse U.S. policy sets the stage for mass murder”
    BY LIEL LEIBOVITZ

    In addition to creating the external circumstances for terror, the Biden administration did everything in its power to derail Israel’s democratically elected government and prevent it from being able to see an attack like today’s coming. That the Israelis let themselves fall for this was stupidity of criminal order. But the invisible hand here was America’s.
    …

    One idea floating around my inbox this afternoon is that part of Israel’s complete military collapse today was caused by a massive Iranian cyber attack that hacked its systems and prevented it from seeing what ought to have been obvious. That this could not only be true but related to the U.S. having recently given a team of Iranian agents high-level access to U.S. intelligence, which could very well have included information about Israeli systems, is not nearly as far-fetched a scenario as many would like it to be. [referencing the Malley-Iranian spies in DC]

    It doesn’t matter what words Biden says today. When you champion Iran; when you send it and its proxies money; when you reward Palestinian violence; when you go out of your way to portray Bibi as a dangerous fascist; when you finance and champion his opponents, contributing to further instability and unrest; when you hand over U.S. intelligence keys to Iranian agents; when you have your spokespeople declare it “disinformation” for people to connect obvious dots; when you do all of this, you know what is going to happen. You mean for it to happen.

  64. There are also Jew-hating elements in the so-called dissident- or alt-right who sympathize with the Palestinians.

    I wonder if we’re going to look back at 10/7/23 as the start of WW III. I sure hope not.

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