Things fall apart: reflections on the Georgia indictment
Now more than ever:
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Late last night I read about the indictment of Trump in Georgia. You can read some of the details here as well as here. From the latter:
Former President Donald Trump orchestrated a sweeping criminal enterprise, committing more than a dozen felonies, as he tried and failed to overturn his defeat in Georgia’s 2020 election, according to an indictment handed up Monday by a Fulton County grand jury.
The indictment also lodged charges against 18 of Trump’s allies, who helped him spread false conspiracy theories and twist the arms of top state officials as he scrambled to cling to power.
Note the way that’s written. It’s a style with which we’ve become familiar over the past few years: the fraud accusations are “conspiracy theories” which were obvioulsy false, as though the idea that fraud may have occurred in such a close election – featuring many initial reports of fraud by election observers, and in which the new election rules meant that fraud could never definitively be proven or disproven – is some sort of obviously false act like stating that 2 plus 2 equals 5. We also know that Trump didn’t “cling to power.” When his legal machinations failed, he left office in the usual manner of presidents during a transition process.
The eighteen others who have been charged are Rudy Giuliani and Trump’s chief of staff Mark Meadows, plus the following:
Also charged: state Sen. Shawn Still; attorneys John Eastman, Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis, Bob Cheeley, Ray Smith III and Kenneth Chesebro; former assistant U.S. attorney general Jeffrey Clark; former Coffee County GOP chairwoman Cathy Latham; Atlanta bail bondsman Scott Hall; former Coffee County elections director Misty Hampton; GOP strategist Michael Roman; publicist Trevian Kutti; Illinois pastor Stephen Cliffguard Lee; and Harrison Floyd, who briefly ran for a suburban Atlanta U.S. House seat before serving as director of Black Voices for Trump.
In other words, the people charged in the so-called conspiracy are Trump’s advisors, plus anyone in Georgia who had anything to do with Trump’s election results challenges, including many top GOP officials as well as the lawyers who believed they had some bona fide legal grounds to challenge the results. Perhaps one of the ideas behind charging so many is to get one or more of them to testify against Trump in exchange for leniency – and who knows? It just might work.
The word “lawfare” is appropriate for what’s going on now in Georgia. This has been done with the goal of obliterating Trump and his advisors, plus officials in the state who supported him, in order to serve notice that the Democrats now utterly control the legal process and there is no point in ever defying them again. Among other things, these charges certainly don’t increase anyone’s faith in the validity of the election results in Georgia in 2020, but that’s a side issue at this point.
This is also a big F-you to half of America. I feel that I’m on solid ground in saying that this sort of action against a former president would not have happened until the last few years – and of course it seems even more vindictive in light of the failure to legally pursue the Steele-dossier-FBI coup attempt on Trump, as well as the enormous evidence of Biden family corruption that includes Joe. That it’s happening to Trump now is another indication that the left feels itself to be not only in power at the moment but completely determined to remain in power indefinitely, and it sees its way clear towards accomplishing that goal. This is one of the major moves in the chess game the left has been playing. And I believe that they would welcome a backlash that involves armed resistance, because they are confident they can control that and crack down even harder, demonizing the right still further.
I haven’t seen any statements yet from Georgia’s Governor Kemp, who is a Republican. But he and Georgia’s Secretary of State Raffensperger – also a Republican – have never been Trump fans, and my guess is that they will not be on Trump’s side as the trial progresses. They may even be asked to testify against him, since an element of the charges involves Trump’s call with Raffensperger. And as far as the possibility of a pardon by Kemp goes – well, not that he’s interested in giving one, but in Georgia pardons are given by a board, and the person must have already served the sentence (among other requirements). That law could be changed by the legislature, however (and yes, the link is to Rachel Maddow’s blog, but that’s where I found the pardon information and I have no reason to doubt it’s legally correct).
I continue to believe that Trump will be the Republican nominee and that he will lose the general, and that these prosecutions have that goal as well as the desire to grind him into dust, to do the same to the people who advised and helped him, and to crow about it.
There are plenty of articles about the Georgia indictment. I’ll link to Turley’s, as well as this one at Legal Insurrection about Trump’s response, and this at Breitbart.
Last night I took a swing around the blogosphere and the MSM, reading comments here and there. What I saw is a great deal of vengeful celebrating from the left, and anger on the right. I’m both angry and very very sad, because I think that we’ve lost far more with these indictments than we ever lost because of any supposed crime of Trump’s.
Far, far, FAR more.
… somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
[NOTE: For details of Trump’s call with Raffensperger, here’s my main post on the subject. And in another post I wrote at the time (January 4, 2021), I said this:
Of course, there’s no reason to suppose it will end even if and when Trump leaves office. I have long thought that the left will be pursuing him and his family as long as he and they live, and that the main form this pursuit will take is an enduring attempt to convict him (or them) of something illegal.
Indeed.]
For those interested: Trump announces ‘major event’ next Monday to respond to Georgia charges.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/110893712805150244
It is not surprising at all but Donald Trump insults Republicans with childish taunts about their names (DeSantis, Youngkin) and/or looks (Fiorina, Rubio, Cruz, Christie, Elaine Chao) and then is surprised when they do not stand with him (see McCain, Kemp, et al). Time to move on from DJT but sadly that will not happen.
Apparently 11.6 percent of Americans (which is over 30 million people) believe that violence is justified in preventing Donald Trump from becoming president again. One can only conclude that these people believe that Trump is worse than Hitler and therefore there is no sin too great as long as it’s in service of stopping Trump. I’m sure that they’d be all for giving Trump the death penalty if it were possible.
This point is, we’re essentially dealing with mass hysteria and derangement, and it likely effects close to half the country. Now, most of them aren’t a bloodthirsty as that 30 million, but they may not be terribly far off if they’re OK with all this.
It’s pretty scary.
“…I think that we’ve lost far more with these indictments than we ever lost because of any supposed crime of Trump’s.”
Exactly. This is bigger than Trump, which is something that the Left cannot see.
“This is bigger than Trump, which is something that the Left cannot see.”
The bigger danger is that the neverTrumpers and GOP wimps cannot see. Trump is icky. Let’s just let him rot in jail and move on. If we do, everything will be fair and honest and legal. The Democrats will go back to the time when we all enjoyed unicorn farts and live in peace and harmony. Democrats will never cheat again.
The country cannot allow any part of this to stand. Not the dossier or any of the criminality that has followed ever since. The indictments are just the latest in seven long years of relentless criminality. For America to survive, we have to punish every single one of the crimes and abuses of power. EVERY DAMN ONE.
Nonapod,
One can only conclude that these people believe that Trump is worse than Hitler and therefore there is no sin too great as long as it’s in service of stopping Trump.
That’s not advanced psychology. Rather, it’s the motivation of cults and gangs and lynch mobs – we are righteous in this moment, that guy’s wrong and nothing justifies denying his destruction.
The fact that this is all aided and abetted by our various prosecutorial and court systems is grim evidence that their only thought is, the law is an ass, and we must act.
I’d prefer the presumption of innocence and the rule of law, but that’s just me.
Dershowitz points out that Trump is being criminally indicted for, essentially, what the Gore/Lieberman campaign and advisors did in 2000. Criminalizing political speech is enormously dangerous.
This post and preceding one about tyrants are completely of a piece; it is what we face at this juncture in our history. The left is ascendant, which means totalitarianism is the next step, since no significantly large group of people anywhere or ever have voluntarily participated in socialist schemes for any length of time. Oh sure, they talk a lot about how grand it will be when “we” “share” everything, but what they really think it means is they will get to use everyone else’s stuff for free. When they find out that they are the “everyone else” who has their stuff forcibly taken for redistribution to the favored classes, it’s too late for anything but regret. That’s why socialism can only hold sway when enforced by men with guns working for tyrants. OF course, it’s other men with guns standing up for themselves who eventually put a stop to the madness. I think we are getting rather close to that point in time, so a word to the wise is called for. Acquire and learn to use firearms, own a sufficiency of them along with the required ballistic projectiles they require and be prepared.
Brooklyn Boy:
“It is not surprising at all but Donald Trump insults Republicans with childish taunts about their names (DeSantis, Youngkin) and/or looks (Fiorina, Rubio, Cruz, Christie, Elaine Chao) and then is surprised when they do not stand with him (see McCain, Kemp, et al). Time to move on from DJT but sadly that will not happen.”
This is not about standing with Trump, this is about standing for the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States. Unfortunately, there are too many Republicans who are so blinded by their dislike of Trump that they are willing to not only abandon any conservative principles that they once claimed to hold, but to abandon the very principles on which this country was founded.
If given the choice between ignoring the rule of law (just this once, because of course once Trump is gone things will return to normal) and having to suffer through four more years of Trump saying mean things, many Republicans choose the former.
Brian Kemp has already tweeted out a denial that the election in Georgia was stolen. The responses have been overwhelmingly negative.
neo, I’ll see your Yeats and raise you with Hesiod, writing in the dark age of societal collapse and violence that destroyed the great Near Eastern Bronze Age civilizations in the 10th Century BC:
Far-seeing Zeus then made another race,
The fifth who now live on the fertile earth.
I wish I were not of this race, that I
Had died before, or had not yet been born.
This is the race of iron. Now, by day,
Men work and grieve unceasingly; by night,
They waste away and die. The gods will give
Harsh burdens, but will mingle in some good.
Zeus will destroy this race of mortal men,
When babies shall be born with greying hair.
Father will have no common bond with son
Neither will guest with host, nor friend with friend
The brother-love of past days will be gone. . . .
Men will destroy the towns of other men.
The just, the good, the man who keeps his word
Will be despised, but men will praise the bad
And insolent. Might will be right and shame
Will cease to be. Men will do injury
To better men by speaking crooked words
And adding lying oathes, and everywhere
Harsh-voiced and sullen-faced and loving harm,
Envy will walk along with wretched men.
I agree it’s to wear down DJT by stamina, cash and real voters who are not paying attention to anything but the Democrats Propaganda Ministry.
To me it’s also a race who dets Trump’s head on a silver platter first.
It’s all to fight the 2020 election fraud and Coup d’etat.
From far away the Republican Heads in Georgia were part of the fraud they are covering themselves as well.
I’m curious about why African-American politicians were always so keen on impeaching Republican presidents. Was it because they had secure seats and didn’t have to worry about challengers? Was it because Republicans were a group of Whites they could attack to rally their voters without getting blowback? Or was it because being a firebrand on impeaching others distracted the public from irregular behavior in their own offices? Or was it just an easy way of increasing their national visibility? I have the same questions about Bragg and now Willis leading the half-baked indictments of Trump. I suppose New York and Atlanta are (along with Florida and DC) places where Trump could be indicted and they happen to have Black district attorneys, but the passion brought to all this by officials who have more important things to worry about does puzzle me.
Abraxas:
There is no problem believing that the election in Georgia was not stolen and yet simultaneously believing Trump should not be prosecuted
Deep state democrats: create a distraction when something major happens; at some point before they move, will admit their plan; want global government; think they’ll have a lush life due to global government; do not follow the U.S. Constitution; have stolen votes for 30yrs; etcetera, etcetera
I’m curious about why African-American politicians were always so keen on impeaching Republican presidents.
==
You’d have to ask why negroid populations in Brazil, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, and a score of Caribbean islands which have been dependencies of Britain, France, or the Netherlands can sustain a multiparty system and competitive politics and black America cannot. We have 41 million blacks in this country, they’re the most affluent black population of any size (West Indians in Canada a possible exception), the most extensively educated black population of any size, yet they have a terrible political culture.
BrooklynBoy has his blinders so firmly in place with his animus toward Trump that he refuses to see what the Left has in mind for anyone that disagrees with them. I have always believed we are on the slow road to civil war.
Which one are you?
Well, when you have a sizeable portion of the American populace buying into the “math is racist” or “men can menstruate” narrative, none of this is surprising.
@neo:I haven’t seen any statements yet from Georgia’s Governor Kemp, who is a Republican. But he and Georgia’s Secretary of State Raffensperger – also a Republican – have never been Trump fans, and my guess is that they will not be on Trump’s side as the trial progresses.
From what I can tell, Georgia county DAs, such as the one prosecuting Trump, don’t answer to the state executive. (If they do, then these gentlemen are already making quite a statement in allowing the indictment and prosecution to go forward.)
Here is yet another case where Dems use the power they have in a specific locale to judicially and legally harass a high-profile Republican, despite it being a red state. Travis County in Texas is notorious for the same thing, having done it to Tom Delay and Rick Perry. The GOP can, if they will, learn from and apply the lesson. Or they can just fold up under it. But if they did retaliate, either the Dems would agree to rein it in (at best) maybe by making some new laws, or (at worst) the playing field would at least be more even.
I really don’t think that elected Dems are so pure in their behavior that they can’t be indicted for something in a red jurisdiction. Anything campaign-related should be doable, as we saw with Sarah Palin’s husband’s jacket. But aside from that, there’s the “three felonies a day” issue, and no one can guarantee they are in compliance with every applicable law and regulation.
I have said it many times before, but it’s worth repeating: the United States is moving swiftly towards an authoritarian state. I’m not sure it can be stopped, let alone reversed. But it can be slowed; if Republicans wins the Presidency and Congress next year. That will never happen with Trump. While I maintain he has a decent shot of winning against Slo Joe, I think the latter will be replaced by Newsom come late fall; and Newsom or any other prominent Democrat will easily beat Trump.
If somehow Trump did win, it’s becoming pretty clear he would never be allowed to take office.
Ultimately, I think we’re headed towards a social credit system much like China, with the Democrats as the overwhelmingly dominant political force, but Republicans allowed to exist provided they stay in line and pose no real threat to the system (think Mitt Romney at present).
All very depressing but I’m coming to terms with the reality. I think most of us are.
Mentus:
Well, at least there’s no doubt what you are: troll.
Neo: The conclusions you have arrived at are absolutely correct! The Democrats want every single person who disagrees to suffer in some way. Either through bogus income tax problems, bogus banking problems, difficulties with their local government in some way, etc., etc. They are urging the “other side” to get physical. They will in some small towns and distant places, but the vast majority will just become more corrupt themselves. You forget that we have removed individual courage from the teaching curriculum. We have deprived three generations of young people the courage to stand and defend–unless of course they are being led by their leftist school teachers. Quite simply Neo–the people don’t know how–not anymore.
I believe it was stolen, largely in fulton county, which is the den of scum and villainy, otherwise why would they make an example, and you can see why it was stolen, the ruinous capitulation to AQ, which is barely noted, I included it on yesterday’s thread, the collapse of supply chains, or airlines of high ways, the mandate to a quixotic electrical grid that will plunge us toward venezuelan status,
the restrictions on freedom of movement and freedom of thought, unless the thought is piracy, under $950, and the restrictions against safety of persons,
THIS is the climax of Lawfare by the Left, which has been gathering steam to steamroll and criminalise dissent for at least two decades. WHY CAN’T WE DO IT TO THE LEFT?
SHIREHOME on unthreaded today writes:
“And on another note, the GA indictments are a sham. But they could be the ones that do the most damage. I truly despair for our country.”
Me too. And I agree this noxious Net in Atlanta will be the most odious. First of all because RICO prosecutions are criminal, they are the hardest to appeal.
WHY ISN’T THE HOUSE back in session organising the attack as Matt Gaetz has outlined?
America as Founded is truly over.
If you send home the GOP observers and then “count” the votes in secret, you cheated. Period.
Indeed, all Republican elected officials have a duty to treat the election as illegal and the Democrats claiming victory as illegitimate.
This crazy, bizarre notion that Democrats can break the law and make it impossible to monitor them while the GOP then has the burden of proving they cheated needs to be dispatched forever.
You break the rules, you count in secret, you cheated. The end. No good faith presumption. After all, you didn’t act in good faith.
Criminalizing speech means that we are dealing with 30 million fascists.
IF WE DO NOT PREPARE TO DEFEND OURSELVES WITH FORCE, then get ready to submit to our New Orwellian Big Brother and be happy slaves.
Windbag “This is bigger than Trump, which is something that the Left cannot see.”
Stan “The country cannot allow any part of this to stand. Not the dossier or any of the criminality that has followed ever since. The indictments are just the latest in seven long years of relentless criminality. For America to survive, we have to punish every single one of the crimes and abuses of power. EVERY DAMN ONE.”
AND DEMAND SO WITH GREAT FIRE AND FORCE AND THE VISIBLE THREAT OF FORCE!
There is no problem believing that the election in Georgia was not stolen and yet simultaneously believing Trump should not be prosecuted
True, but Kemp’s tweet was a direct response to Trump’s “Truth” promising the “truth” about the election. That Kemp jumps out so early on this suggests to me that he’s not going to be any kind of friend to Trump as the trial develops. Clay Travis, one of Rush Limbaugh’s replacements, was saying the other day that if Trump wanted to win, he should run with Kemp, who could secure Georgia, but that isn’t going to happen either.
Right now, another radio guy is saying that Trump is finally over, that he’ll be battling in court next year, rather than on the campaign trail, and if they don’t send him to prision, there will be a plea deal to keep him from running. That could be, Will the Republicans have a Biden impeachment at the same time to offset this?
On a whim put on Levin which haven’t done in months. He played a good long clip of Democrats crying this or that election was fraud and they lost.
Not to mention stacks of lies about Russia Collusion how they frauded the election.
This entire Kangaroo Court is to charge the 2020 election to be as pure as the wind driven snow. Why? Because in 2024 we are going to get clobbered with vote fraud you never saw. If somehow Sundowner is still alive and unblemished he could win again, or whomever does run ( Gruesome is my bet) will.
Neo wrote: “the main form this pursuit will take is an enduring attempt to convict him (or them) of something illegal.”
Indeed… that is the ‘pot of gold’ they are mentally blinded by. It’s an incurable addiction that will lead to their ruin… one way or another.
There is an evident truth that Republicans must say loudly and clearly to Americans. Without our good people understanding this truth (often for lack of wanting to understand it), we are doomed: the Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise of long standing.
These aren’t any good Democrats, any more than there are good mobsters! They must all be eliminated, legally if possible, but certainly. If they thwart the legally way, we have no choice but to try the other way.
We are the people who intend good, and they are the people who intend to gain power over us. It’s as simple as that. You can be sure that’s how they see it, and why they act accordingly.
This is not about standing with Trump, this is about standing for the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States. Unfortunately, there are too many Republicans who are so blinded by their dislike of Trump that they are willing to not only abandon any conservative principles that they once claimed to hold, but to abandon the very principles on which this country was founded.
Yes. I have seen almost no response by the majority of Republicans in Congress. I assume they approve of the harassment of a thousand US citizens or they are part of the corruption. Or both. Matt Gaetz and Majorie Taylor Green have my gratitude for trying to do something for the J6 political prisoners.
I would not mind an authoritarian government if they were only competent. As we see in China the two qualities are mutually exclusive. Even the Japanese MITI, which was comparatively benign, failed in the end.
The present Democrats are destroying the country and I wonder why ? No sentient person should believe the global warming/climate change hoax.
“I have seen almost no response by the majority of Republicans in Congress. I assume they approve of the harassment of a thousand US citizens or they are part of the corruption.”
Probably they are simply criminals of low ambition, willing to enjoy the spoils but content to let the hardened crooks do the dirty work while licking their fingers.
The “harassment” of a thousand U. S. Citizens? Damn, I have laid awake at night, burning with shame that I have done nothing to right this horrible wrong, only praying that the Lady of Justice will someday soon lay aside the scales, and becoming the Bitch, wield her sword. That’s what we need Trump for!
I think that a recent Trump ad had it exactly right i.e.–
“They’re not after me, they’re after you. I’m just in the way.”
And the sooner conservatives understand that, and fight back, the better.
Snow on Pine’s “fight back” theme is amplified by Charlie Kirk:
How Should Republicans Respond To Fulton County? Indict The Left
Republican officials have so far contented themselves with merely criticizing the left’s junk indictments. Some of them are Lindsey Graham types who snooker voters with fake conservative rhetoric and can never be counted on when the chips are down. Others are waiting on a combination of convictions being overturned by SCOTUS plus the karma that will inevitably land on the lefties and eat them alive. We are tickled pink not to have that karma.
Although it’s worth considering, I doubt Charlie Kirk’s approach will gain much traction vs waiting on SCOTUS and karma. And so, knowing we are right and trusting natural law, we wait and watch.
So that you can see how things are going out in the far reaches of this country. MT had 12 years of democrats in charge, which was overturned and this last year we had control of all three–state house, legislature, congress, AG. What we do not have is one single conservative judge in the state–not one. The big issue is that our state Dems want to re-write the state constitution because of the abortion conflict. However, what I think your readers here should see is this:
https://montanafreepress.org/2023/08/14/judge-rules-in-favor-of-youth-plaintiffs-montana-climate-lawsuit/?utm_medium=email&mc_cid=0635fd7df9&mc_eid=aa98d0ec48
One of our judges just ruled in favor of a lawsuit brought by kids to challenge our environmental policies. When they do this they will have weakened the constitution, which will tear down any challenge or compromise on abortion.
Please don’t forget that our young people ARE the organized revolution you people are hoping to have. They are already in place, armed, and ready to proceed to a “brand new world”. The sad thing is that the Republicans should know all this by now. They are quite simply 40 years too late!
@ Abraxas > “Right now, another radio guy is saying that Trump is finally over, that he’ll be battling in court next year, rather than on the campaign trail, and if they don’t send him to prision, there will be a plea deal to keep him from running. That could be, Will the Republicans have a Biden impeachment at the same time to offset this?”
On the open thread, T-Rex linked a post by Naomi Wolf, a portion of which directly addresses this point.
https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/on-hearing-president-trump-in-person?r=b9bca
neo on August 15, 2023 at 5:55 pm said:
“Mentus: Well, at least there’s no doubt what you are: troll.”
Manju, Montage, Mentus — why do Neo’s dedicated trolls have the same initial? Could they possibly be the same person getting back into the game, after a long hiatus, because there is an election ahead, with the hope of swaying some of Neo’s readers?
Anyone on the Right who thinks that this is just about Trump is living in a fool’s paradise. The Dems mean to destroy the GOP and any supporters who dare to object. RINO’s in Congress need to put a halt to ALL Congressional business until sanity returns to the body politic.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/08/mark-meadows-files-to-remove-georgia-state-prosecution-to-federal-court/
A response to the argument that this isn’t about Trump, or that they’re after us but Trump is just in the way. That argument is correct, but incomplete. I think that a clear-eyed look at the situation requires understanding that Trump’s unique flaws and weaknesses make his criminal cases a losing hand for those who care about the integrity of the justice system, both in the legal system and in the court of public opinion.
– I agree that the indictments of Trump and the preceding investigations are on a scale from excessive to grossly abusive.
– I think, and most of the public agrees, that Trump’s behavior after the 2020 election was abhorent. No matter what you think of the integrity of the 2020 election, it cannot be acceptable to use half-cracked legal “theories” to reverse the results of an election. If a conservative living in 2023 America can’t recognize what the left is going to do with that precedent, he or she needs to give it some additional thought. I believe that most people understand intuitively that a republic cannot survive if this kind of behavior is normalized.
– I think, and most of the public agrees, that the J6 riots were a complete and total disgrace, and a stain on the nation’s history. This is the case whether the riots were spontaneous, organized by Trumpers, goaded on by Feds, or some combination thereof.
– For these and other reasons, Trump is a hugely unsympathetic defendent. Most of the public believes that he has done something wrong. Most of the public disapproves of his continuing childish behavior (e.g., the Bragg baseball bat tweets and other social media threats against the judges and prosecutors).
– Therefore, I believe that a majority of the public is primed to believe and accept that Trump committed crimes and deserves to go to prison.
So, to summarize, we have a hugely unpopular, hugely unsympathetic defendent, who has clearly (and publicly) behaved in a highly unsavory manner, and yet is also the vicitm of multiple abusive prosecutions over his behavior that, while dumb and abusive, is not criminal.
That is a recipe for defeat. I’ve mentioned this before, but to stick with Trump to the bitter end here is to reenact the end of Thelma and Louise. There is no practical way to stand with Trump and win. It just isn’t going to happen.
So basically, the left has found a way to goad the right into a battle where the left can concentrate its firepower on Trump, who has maneuvered himself into an extraordinarily weak position for the reasons set forth above. The best that the right can hope for from this situation is some sort of strategic retreat and live to fight another day. The alternative is to make Trump the hill we all die on.
no i don’t believe that carp, and if you do, here’s a bridge,
it was nebulous as with many of their schemes, how they stole the election, the fact that there was no transparency was the first hint,
miguel cervantes – Assuming that you’re responding to me, you didn’t rebut anything. My argument isn’t about what should happen, it is about what is most likely to happen.
You don’t believe that carp? Well, he does sound pretty fishy…;)
its a transposition, a balloting system orchestrated by marc elias, who was a party to a previous fraud scheme, the steele dossier, through his firm perkins and coie, which has a long history of other schemes, and subterfuges, who relocated their main office behind the bamboo curtain, then you have the 65 project which furtherance of a conspiracy, to deprive the people of their representatives,
miguel cervantes – OK – so what is the best way to fight it? I submit that going over the cliff with Trump is not the best way to fight it, and in fact is a sure way to lose.
another member of elias gang, mike sussman, fronted the dubious representations of crowdstrike, alleging russian hacking along with other digital fraud, concocted by a georgia tech lab, of course the dc jury was unconcerned with that,
so this is the same garbage like the danchenko dossier, the phony fisa warrant on carter page, the extortion scheme against victor shokin, just dialed up to eleven,
– I believe he is orange, a man, and bad. CC™
Jan 6 was a stain on the country but not for your fancies.
Murder of Ashlii Babbitt, remember her?
The Democrat Jan 6 kangaroo court, remember that?
But OMB. CC™
things that are patently illegal are rarely charged, bribery actual destruction of documents, my god they returned the document that is the center piece of this
pantomine horse, how stupid is that, but the process is the punishment,
as mark steyn mike ball, rachel ehrenwald, any and all subjects of lawfare, to suppress the truth,
“The present Democrats are destroying the country and I wonder why ? No sentient person should believe the global warming/climate change hoax.”
I think that at least some of it is ChiCom meddling. Interestingly to me, AntiFA has started including the Chinese Hammer and Sickle, along with their own Leninist logo, on their ballistic shields and helmets. The Bidens took a lot of money from the ChiComs, but no one seems all that bothered by it. So did Crooked Hillary. COVID-19 appears to have come out of a Chinese lab, with strong PLA ties, and some US money (but more of our money appears to have gone into illegal Ukrainian bio labs). The Chinese, of course, stonewalled the half hearted WHO investigation into the origins of the virus. They have been buying up a lot of our farmland, esp around our military bases. Snooze…And yet, everyone was somehow focused on insignificant Russian meddling in 2016.
I think, and most of the public agrees, that Trump’s behavior after the 2020 election was abhorent. No matter what you think of the integrity of the 2020 election, it cannot be acceptable to use half-cracked legal “theories” to reverse the results of an election.
Have you taken a poll? I think you are deluding yourself that most of the Republicans agree with you. The “half cracked legal theories” like Texas suing Penn were in the Constitution. The Supreme Court just ducked their responsibility.
“SECTION 2. Clause 1. The Judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Land under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.”
What’s your point om? I’m not denying or discounting any of the facts that you raised. Do you truly believe that following Trump in 2024 will lead to any outcome besides catastrophic defeat?
If your principles require you ride the Trump train over the cliff, I can respect that, though I don’t agree. I don’t think it is at all the best way to defend the republic from the left. Sometimes you just have to pick your hill and die on it. I don’t think Trump is that hill, though, at least for me. The cost is just too high and the alternatives are much less bad.
again it not about trump, I could go for any of the top three, but not pence or christie, who abet this ongoing theft of the nation,
sidney powell, who took down the chagras cartel, was the only one willing to stick up for general flynn, who was the subject of another lawfare exercise, which deprived trump of the intelligence advice he needed,
CC™ piles on a lot of OMB “I think ….” statements that reinforce the Democrat spin. President Trump is the Republican front runner in the 2023 polling. That may be unfortunate for the November 2024 election. The other candidates have to convince voters to move on from President Trump. Repeating OMB arguments and wringing your hands isn’t new or insighteful IMO.
“The other candidates have to convince voters to move on from President Trump.”
How is that going? DeSantis is a good governor but has not made a good case for the presidency. Vivek has good ideas but I think is not ready. His name is hard to spell. Chris Christie is leading the charge you want but really ? Mike Pence ? Did you see his interview with Tucker ?
om – These are arguments against nominating Trump in 2024. They are not Democratic spin. Many are based on statements of fact about the post-2020 election, J6, and Trump’s childish antics. Republicans overlook those things. The general electorate does not.
And it does not rebut any of those arguments to cite Trump’s poll numbers. Sorry. Republicans are on a road to ruin, and the ruin will be for the republic as a whole. Sounding the alarm is the correct thing to do. Washing your hands of the matter because Trump is way ahead in the GOP primary polls? That doesn’t even make sense.
es que no ve lo que esta adelante de ti you don’t see what’s right in front of you,
CC™
Old laundry doesn’t become new just because you repeat it the next day.
Will you have a life after The Great Orange Whale?
Mike K – I haven’t taken a poll, but others have:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html
As of yesterday, Trump’s favorables are 38.8% and his unfavorables are 56.8%. He’s under water by nearly 20 points. And the trend is not good.
These are not the numbers of a winning presidential candidate. This is reality. We can either deal with reality or ignore it. Ignoring it is dangerous.
Stan on August 15, 2023 at 6:56 pm said:
If you send home the GOP observers and then “count” the votes in secret, you cheated. Period.
Correct.
I’m going to push back on that a little. I personally wouldn’t categorize Trump’s post election behavior as “abhorent”. I’d use terms like “ill-advised”, “foolish”, “unstrategic”, and “playing into the enemy’s hands”, but not “abhorent”.
First off, contesting an election in and of itself is clearly not abhorent. But the way Trump went about it was obviously not at all effective and ended up doing far more harm than good. I certainly remember when I first heard about the planned “stop-the-steal” rally thinking that it was a pretty bad idea, so I do partially blame Trump for that. To sum up, the intentions may of been good, but the execution was destructive. Certainly not “abhorent: though.
om – Ignoring yesterday’s dirty laundry doesn’t make it any cleaner.
Bauxite, I actually think the J6 protest (not riot or insurrection) was the opposite of a stain on America’s history. I also think I may have seen different videos of the event than you. I remember a scene where a man dressed all in black was trying to break a window and a man tackled him to the ground yelling that’s Antifa, that’s not us. I saw Capitol Police waving people into the Capitol. I saw people telling other people, “This is OUR house, don’t break anything.” I saw people walking in between guide ropes taking pictures. I saw the view from behind Ashley Babbit when she was shot. There were three Capitol Police men less than 10 feet behind her. They were the first people to administer first aid to her. Finally I saw the Capitol Police asking the protesters to leave and they LEFT. A “stain” ? Just the opposite.
AesopFan:
Not the same person. But maybe they went to troll school together, and chose “M” names for some reason?
CC™ sees the Jan 6 riot, FBI enticement, murder of Ashlii Babbitt, selective abusive enforcement of misdemeanor offensives and excessively harsh punishment as all part of the OMB stain on “our Democracy.”
It’s dirty laundry all right, but CC™ can’t admit who soiled it, because of his OMB.
neo and AesopFan:
It seemed incongruous (a lie) that our latest “M” was a lurker from way back (2015-2016) who only found his voice a week or so ago.
I’m going to stay away from Marshfield. Don’t want to have to answer Daniel Webster.
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1691857401765347679
“Bauxite said: I think, and most of the public agrees, that Trump’s behavior after the 2020 election was abhorent. No matter what you think of the integrity of the 2020 election, it cannot be acceptable to use half-cracked legal “theories” to reverse the results of an election.”
I actually think that abhorrent would be more appropriately ascribed to Hillary Clinton and her colluding with foreign nations and our CIA, FBI and DOJ to frame the rightful winner of the 2016 election. And as that seemed not to be working, she promoted actual riots during his inauguration.
But yeah, Orange Man Bad.
The vast crowds anyplace Trump appears should be a smidgen of a hint to you that your POV is not as popular as you have been led to believe.
oh
https://www.frontpagemag.com/georgia-trump-judge-used-to-be-supervised-by-trump-prosecutor/
This is in store for all of us.