Mr. Rogers has a message from 52 years ago about boys and girls
I’m too old to have watched Mr. Rogers as a child. But as I watched him forty years ago with my own child, I found some of his messages a little obscure. For example, there was the song that follows, which I thought unnecessary at the time. What did “fancy” mean in this context, and why did kids need reassurance about remaining boys or remaining girls?
I have come to think of the song as both important and prescient. Perhaps Fred Rogers was merely concerned at the time with castration anxiety in kids, or something of that sort. The idea that “some are fancy on the outside” and some “on the inside” seems to be a cute-ish way of referring to boys and girls, respectively. The message is of body integrity, goodness, and wholeness, about which today’s children probably need a ton of reassurance. Unfortunately, they’re not watching Mr. Rogers anymore.
If he were to sing this song today, he’d probably be banned. I’m surprised it’s still up on YouTube. Pay particular attention to the second verse:
Now we have “educational” tools such as this workbook for ages starting with five. From one of the negative reviews of the book (most are positive, by the way):
If your child wasn’t confused before he/she will be after going through this “workbook.” Perpetuates gender stereotypes & full of leading questions.
That’s the point, isn’t it?
A few of the many activity titles: Breaking Out of the Binary, My Space In the Spectrum, Is Social Transition Right for Me? And here’s a quote from the first activity:
When babies are born, one of the first things people want to know is, “Is it a girl?” or “Is it a boy?” It’s like people need to know the answer to these questions before they know how to think or feel about another person. Some people think if they know the sex of a person, they know the gender of a person. They believe those two words mean the same thing. Nope. No. Wrongo!
The label of “boy” or “girl” given to a baby at birth and a person’s gender are two different things, and for some people the two are quite different. This might sound complicated, but knowing your own gender can be rather simple. Most importantly, each person has the right to know and declare their own gender. You are the expert when it comes to your gender!
There are almost undoubtedly plenty more books of this sort, gently introducing young children to the idea that body-mind duality is the norm, that body and mind (and soul, which isn’t mentioned) are not in unity but are completely separate, and that a young child is the expert on this – once that child has looked at the workbook, preferably, but possibly even before.
Later on we get this:
People have a mistaken belief that having a penis means you are a boy and having a vulva means you are a girl…The truth is that bodies come in many forms and lots of children don’t fit the mold.
Little children have no way to refute this mendacious propaganda. Actually, sex is not determined only by these two things, penis or vulva (and by the way, “vulva” is an anatomically incorrect word for this purpose because it only refers to the external female genitalia), although those things are an excellent guide in 99.98% of cases. The number of intersex people is vanishingly small (true prevalence is .018%, despite activists’ attempts to artificially inflate those numbers by redefining non-intersex conditions as intersex). And we know a great deal about what causes such conditions and even in the vast majority of those cases are able to discern the person’s actual biological sex, male or female. The system is binary and the existence of very rare cases that are a bit confusing initially has nothing to do with the binary fact of human sexual dimorphism.
I did not grow up with Mr Rogers either, and all I can say about that song is WOW! What a polar difference from what we hear now. I wonder who started this whole movement. And WHY?
Oh I know, there’s the suggestion that this is a result of the Gramscian march through the institutions, but I don’t think he’s the father of this whole movement. Nor are the people who are leading the charge at the moment — they are taking the lead from someone else. Who, then?
It is indeed “mendacious propaganda”, always pushed by the radical left to confuse the young, make them doubt themselves and their identities, lead them away from FACTS and from Christianity into LGBTQ+ land, a disgusting territory where babies cannot occur. These people are evil, and are one more indication of how the West (not just the USA) is in decline. In fact they are pushing the decline. Maybe they’ll like Islam better!
You do not need a leader to lead you into the non-fact land, either.
I found the excerpts you posted very interesting in that both dismissed the biological fact that boy’s and girl’s brains develop differently on their own. Yes, I concede that gender might be a societal construct, but so is a caste system. I believe I am a rational person and I guess I’m gobsmacked by the irrational nature of this whole thing.
The billionaire Pritzkers, one of whom is a MtF tranny and another presently governor of IL, have a lot to do with it.
Jennifer Bilek has done much research on the driving forces behind the transgender cult — and that’s what it is — and its connection to transhumanism.
I’ve said it before and will say it again: the rapid proliferation of this insanely destructive cult is a major indicator of how utterly lost we are as a nation, a culture, a civilization.
F:
At some point I may write a post about James Lindsay’s videos, which are attempts to answer the question you pose. Here’s one and here’s another.
I had occassion to treat a Klinefelter’s syndrome (XXY) and a Turner’s syndrome (XXX), The Klinefelter’s wanted desperately to be a normal male, and the superfemale XXX simply wanted to be a femme, but biology denied that to both of them.
If they were to admit it’s a rare thing and acted somewhat appropriately, I doubt if there would be a controversy concerning ‘trans’, just my opinion.
Marisa said: “How utterly lost we are as a nation, a culture, a civilization.”
Indeed. This is what we are faced with.
We’re here, we’re queer and we’re coming for your children. https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1672702498849660934
Legal Insurrection has a new post on the “queering” of modern medicine, which quotes a pediatrician from the state of Washington:
“Postmodern medicine seems to have a particular foothold in the West, especially in the United States, where it has become institutionalized. It is relatively new but is embedded in multiple American medical societies and medical schools. While it leverages the same technologies as Modern medicine, thereby superficially resembling it, it fundamentally seeks to dismantle Modern medicine’s underlying philosophy.
While Postmodern medicine is being propagated across American medical schools through Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion bureaucracies, nothing exemplifies Postmodernity more than the gender ideology that drives American ‘gender-affirming’ model of care. I wish to strongly advocate for Modern medicine and urge readers to resist the ideological shift towards the Postmodernizing or ‘queering’ of my profession. . . . I reject the overmedicalization of children propagated by many gender activists. At its core, Postmodern medicine is as far removed from Modern medicine as witch-burning. It poses serious risks to patient welfare and should be vehemently resisted.”
https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/06/welcome-to-the-world-of-postmodern-medicine/
Neo: you offer the percentage of intersex people as 0.018% of the total population. So in the US population of 330,000,000 we are talking about maybe 60,000 people. Some of whom have probably adjusted to their situation; let’s say half of them are of a situation (and an age) where we should try to craft policy to avoid hurting them and maybe even helping them.
For this truly minute fraction of the world, we should tie ourselves into knots and force everyone –EVERYONE– to focus on this stuff, and kowtow to some loud and angry cadre of Social Justice Warriors? And by drawing attention to this putative “issue,” we will stir up anxiety needlessly in some larger cohort, who then need to be counseled and comforted? Over imaginary or remote concerns?
It’s like listening to the one kid on the bus who is screeching endlessly about wanting everyone to stop while s/he gets an ice cream cone. Sorry, no.
I loved Mr. Rogers for my children! They loved him, and I was comfortable with what they were watching for that half-hour. Even then, I limited the amount of time they could be exposed to Sesame Street.
We keep making laws based on the small number of difficult cases, applying those situations to everyone else. This is almost always bad law, and now, bad medicine.
Owen:
We don’t have policies today that hurt intersex people. We know a lot more about these conditions than we used to. For the most part, intersex conditions are now very separate from trans theory or trans treatment. But for a while in the past, certain psychologists such as Money (see this Wiki profile), one of the pioneers of fransgender studies, hurt some intersex people.
However, these days, the trans movement uses the existence of intersex people as a way to argue that sex is ambiguous, the categories man and women are fluid and not clear even biologically, and therefore we should draw some conclusions from this about gender versus sex. The argument has no logic to it, but it convinces some people and it’s used constantly.
Excellent recommendation on the Lindsay videos Neo. Best explanation I’ve heard of where the pedagogy of the oppressed and the total politicization of everything comes from. Perpetual cultural revolution. Lengthy but riveting.
Just how are the tots instructed to determine their genders? What are they told it “feels like” to be a boy or a girl or “nonbinary”? Is it as simple as “would you rather get a doll or a football”?
I should be ashamed to admit such ignorance, but as an 86-year-old “cismale” I have no idea what it feels like to be anybody or anthing but myself. I wonder what the colors “red” and “green” look like to you.
Re: the Mr. Rogers video:
Yes, agree! agree! also:
“It’s You I Like”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcq5oW0GvD8
I also remember his song “I like you just the way you are”, which I can no longer find online. But I remember the melody and these words that a twitter user quoted:
(I remember it as “I like you just the way you are”, not “as you are”.)
(“or even rearrange you”: how relevant today!)
“When Mr. Rogers said “I like you as you are / I wouldn’t want to change you / or even rearrange you/ not by far”, I felt that.
9:07 AM · Jun 17, 2019”
I think Mr Rodgers was after me but barely, Maybe wrongly but use sex and gender intermittently as same thing. I don’t buy into this Trannie stuff, God created man and woman, that’s it. There are genetic screw-up in DNA but that is so small a percentage to be 0
Nothing short of a spiritual revival will save this nation.
It is the only force which will have a positive effect on the nation.
Changed hearts is the only true mechanism to evoke external change.
It is Day 24 of Have No Shame month.
Open debate [in] the marketplace of ideas doesn’t exist for seven-year-olds. It just doesn’t.
–James Lindsay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV0XSPbo1CY
These days it doesn’t exist for 70 year-olds either.
“Fancy on the outside” and “fancy on the inside” referring to boy and girls sounds quite creepy now, though I don’t think people heard it that way back in the Seventies. I interpreted it as some people are pretty or handsome, and the others have qualities and talents that make them equally valuable, but that can’t be seen by looking at their faces. Today of course, people are willing to think the worst of Mr. Rogers (or Tom Hanks), because they’re tired of hearing how decent they are and don’t believe they could possibly live up to their public images.
One of today’s small blessings: we won’t have to hear people like Al Gore ranting about the “extra-chromosome right-wing.”
Neo @ 6:38: thanks for completing my thought. I could not agree more, the trans activists (and those in it for a buck) have used the plight of the intersex people as if it were the basis of their own case. As you say, it’s not. Their argument is not only dishonest, it’s grotesque.
Well, g’bye… Mr Rogers he ain’t.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/elton-john-singles-out-anti-grooming-laws-as-why-hes-done-performing-in-the-us_5348744.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign=DrLoupis&src_src=partner&src_cmp=DrLoupis
Abraxas:
He’s referring to many things. You describe one. But I believe he’s also reassuring kids that – to be more blunt about it – girls are not merely castrated boys. They have “fancy” organs inside that mean that someday “girls can be the mommies.”
Ed Bonderenka says, “It is Day 24 of Have No Shame month.”
Right on schedule: “LGBTQ activists participating in New York City’s annual Drag March on Friday sparked outrage for chanting ‘we’re here, we’re queer, we’re coming for your children’ in a Manhattan park. The marchers, many wearing flamboyant dresses and clothing, walked through Tompkins Square Park in the East Village Friday night as part of the city’s Pride Month celebrations. Video of the march shows people laughing and joining in with the cheeky chant — including one dancing topless woman.”
https://nypost.com/2023/06/24/drag-marchers-spark-outrage-with-chant-at-nyc-pride-event-were-here-were-queer-and-were-coming-for-your-children/
Some of us would say the chant is worse than “cheeky.”
That’s putting it rather mildly. I mean the first time I heard about John/Joan when I was a student in the 90s we were told how much of a success it was. Oh boy was it a failure and the whole thing was literally fraud. (Oddly enough discovered when researched by a fellow transgender researcher named Diamond.) Also Money did seem to also be a pedophile with some of his treatment of the kids in that case.(But your link does cover that too.)
gently introducing young children to the idea that body-mind duality is the norm
I MIGHT grant you “subtly.” I won’t grant you “gently.”
I’m going to apologize in advance for all the quotation marks in this post. I assure all who read it that I’m using them very consciously – not for emphasis but fot quotations, though I am indeed using them more as scare quotes.
It infuriates and frustrates me that my friends on the left, at least the ones who would call themselves “liberals” (as opposed to the ones willing to own the term “progressive”), think that “just because” “a few” progressives “on the margins” hold extreme views about “transing the children” (that’s a Ben Shapiro real quote rather than a scare quote), that doesn’t mean I should be concerned about a trans “movement” that’s “coming for the children.”
Bull. The fact that pedophiles are rare does not keep me from being concerned that they exist and wanting to keep all children away from them. The fact that NAMBLA is fringe does not keep me from noticing that its mission is the normalization of something but only not normal but horrible.
Bringing in NAMBLA is my deliberate attempt to Godwin this comment – yes, trans activists, I believe you have common ground with people as evil as Nazis, ok? You want to urge children and young people (note the lack of targeting of older adults who might supposedly, until now, have been afraid or unwilling to come out of the trans closet) to alter their genitalia and physical presentation of secondary sex characteristics so that they can be used sexually by someone – maybe not you, but someone – in ways other than those which their natural genitals would allow. There is NO other reason for people on the outside to urge “gender transition” on someone else. To make the transitioner happy? Don’t make me laugh – you are willing to sentence them to a lifetime of chemical maintenance and sexual dysfunction so SOMEONE ELSE can experience sexual pleasure from them.
Change my mind, trans activists.
This subject angers me like no other.
“…gobsmacked by the irrational nature of this whole thing.”
Well, yes; but if one considers that the GOAL of this sick juggernaut is to confuse, perplex, dishearten and ultimately DESTROY, then it’s totally rational.
(Though perhaps that should be, “…if one considers that the GOAL of this sick juggernaut is to TWIST, WARP, PERVERT and MALICIOUSLY EXPLOIT so-called HUMAN RIGHTS IMPERATIVES—IOW LAWS—in order to confuse, perplex, dishearten and ultimately DESTROY, then it’s totally rational.’)
These people have openly, proudly and IMPLACABLY declared themselves to be THE ENEMY.
They should be treated accordingly.
Jamie @ 2:08: “…This subject angers me like no other.” Amen. Your comment elucidates exactly what is so sick about the whole trans thing. Brainwashing children into self-mutilation for fun and profit? Utterly evil. I can only hope that criminal prosecutions begin soon, or at least that the medical malpractice insurers refuse to cover claims arising from this horror show.
The Raleigh “Pride” event was yesterday, amid grim warnings about extra security for “haters” who threatened the event. Those didn’t materialize. Event participants complained about “anti-LGBTQ+ laws” being passed in North Carolina. These consist of prohibitions on “trans” medical and surgical procedures on children, and a law protecting female sports participants from middle school on up. Apparently preventing harm to children and women is not a “Pride” objective.
Kate–
Given the location of North Carolina, what do you think would have happened if the Sons of Confederate Veterans had held their own “Pride” event?
PA Cat, there are some SCVs around, but they keep fairly quiet these days. They tried to take possession of the “Silent Sam” statue from UNC, and the courts ruled against them.
If a Confederate remembrance group held a public event outside the state capitol, as Pride did, there would have been Antifa and BLM types there to create trouble.
In other news, New Hampshire’s first transgender state representative “has been charged with distributing child sexual abuse images. Democrat Stacie-Marie Laughton, 39, was arrested on Wednesday and arraigned in Hillsborough Superior Court the following day on several counts of distribution. . . . Additionally, Laughton’s girlfriend, Lindsay Groves, 38, was also arrested on the same day on one count of sexual exploitation of children, and one count of distribution of child pornography. Groves was working at a daycare called Creative Minds located in Tyngsborough, Massachusetts at the time [and] stands accused of taking pictures of the children in her care. . . . Laughton has a criminal history dating back to 2021, which included counts of providing false information to 911. Previous unknown felony convictions precluded Laughton from taking office in 2012, but she was again elected in the same year, until she stepped down from office after her fellow Democratic lawmakers called for the representative’s resignation.”
Photo of “Stacie-Marie” at the link: xe looks a lot older than 39 and is only marginally better looking than “Jennifer” Pritzker:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/transgender-state-rep-nh-child-pornography
It’s not your child that decides which “gender” they are…their kindergarten teacher makes that decision!
Pingback:Instapundit » Blog Archive » NEO: Mr. Rogers has a message from 52 years ago about boys and girls. “If he were to sing this song
“The fact that NAMBLA is fringe does not keep me from noticing that its mission is the normalization of something but only not normal but horrible.”
They’re fringe now. They used to be invited to march in “pride” parades.
[NAMBLA is] fringe now. They used to be invited to march in “pride” parades.
I had forgotten that – back before the G part of LGBTQ+ made common cause with the L’s to push the message of “we’re just like you” in service of gay marriage, right?
Well. I’m glad the non-pedophile/hebephile G’s decided to marginalized their sicko brethren. I mean, there are plenty of hebephile heterosexual men (and of course they’re the majority of pedophiles, by dint of being the majority of men and men’s being more likely to find sexual satisfaction from a child than women), but as far as I know, they never banded together in a group to try to make their perverse fetish look sweet and normal. (“Man-Boy Love, indeed.)
I refuse to concede the word “gender” to the fluid Left. Sex and gender are synonymous. What the Left talks about is sexuality or sexual preference. Of course to say that is to expose the fact that this is beyond discussion with children and is harmful to society.
I am of an age that Fred Rogers was a formative influence on my life (along with early Sesame Street and the Electric Company). I remember being SO frustrated that nobody believed Big Bird when he told them about Snuffleupagus.
But Fred Rogers was a class act, a class MAN, and I have NEVER in my 55 years had reason to doubt that anything that man ever said was anything but true.
How many people, both celebrities and in your private life, can you say that about? Through some freakish accident of genetics, I think I can say that about my dad. Not another living or dead soul.
My mother forbade me and my sibling from watching Mr. Rogers. She thought it was creepy how he talked to children and thought he may be a pedophile.
From what I now know he seems like a good guy, well intentioned, and I have friends who really enjoyed his show in their early years. I also understand why my mom was taken aback; in our working class neighborhood no man talked, behaved or dressed like that.
Electric company was where I first saw morgan freeman,
Mister Rogers is one of the treasures of Pittsburgh, my hometown. Interestingly, my kids have far more appreciation for him and his wisdom now that they are young adults.
As for the subject matter, I think the immortal Titania McGrath put it best:
“Why do bigots find gender identity so confusing?
It simply means the immutable yet fluid feeling that one is male or female or neither or both based on conceptions of masculinity and femininity that are innate but also social constructs that don’t exist.
This really isn’t hard.”
https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1445437849956978691
Mr. Rogers, Please, sir, can you help us somehow?
https://www.thecollegefix.com/academics-allowing-kids-to-opt-out-of-drag-storytime-is-a-dangerous-setback-for-gay-rights/
Those on the side of Mr. Rogers are mobilizing.
https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/24/betsy-mccaughey-americas-silent-majority-is-turning-up-the-heat-on-lgbtq-activism-the-results-speak-for-themselves/
The T’s alleged “allies” are also getting restless.
https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/25/opinion-its-time-for-a-big-fat-gay-divorce-deroy-murdock/
But the team rosters are somewhat muddled.
https://notthebee.com/article/christian-university-cancels-mens-ministry-event-over-the-groups-biblical-statement-on-pride-month
The Left took over many institutions not by persuasion but by purchase.
(LDS readers should explicitly recognize the source of this tactic, and others can easily infer the same.)
https://notthebee.com/article/come-read-this-thread-about-how-the-left-took-over-the-culture-and-how-conservatives-can-win-it-back
I don’t think I would go so far as the quoted Tweet thread author recommends (“become baser, more savage, but more vital”), but the question is one of how the Right can counter the Left without adopting the same methods and thus eventually becoming the same thing.
However, I’m not opposed to funding counter-leftist institutions to oppose their actions.
My wife’s cousin interned with the Mr Rogers Neighborhood show at WQED as part of her elementary ed degree requirements.
She had nothing but praise for the guy. He was, hard as it is to accept in today’s degraded world, a genuinely nice guy.
Related (wistfully…with a soupcon of fear)….
“Pride Then And Now: Reflections From A Gay Man”—
https://victorygirlsblog.com/pride-then-and-now-reflections-from-a-gay-man/
File under: How did we get here?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IsSpAOD6K8
(Well….I guess it’s the old “CONSEQUENCES” racket…)
It is too early in the morning for a new Open Thread. So I think I’ll post OT, here because the last handful of posts have been here — a thought provoking Neo post it is,ntoo..
A 7m clip from “Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Bartaromo” had Peter Schweizer on the topic of the House Committee seeking phone records on Hunter and Joe Biden’s conversations on Zang, their business partner who also headed Chinese Intelligence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMby7t0cs70
THIS is something. But I draw your attention to the comments at YouTube by Dem trolls, gaslighting our side as a “cult,” for instance.
At this moment, “terrybrinker409”a post has seen some 46 comments. Please look there. I could only reply two two or three with LOLs! and the like.
The reality is plain. As Tom Elliott posted on Twitter abou the 18 ways the US is thoroughly corrupted by the Deep State and the FBI, more or less electing Biden to be president!
SEE here “ ‘Blatant Political Corruption’: The Rot In America’s Democracy Explained In Under 1000 Words” or only 18 points.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/blatant-political-corruption-rot-americas-democracy-explained-under-1000-words
Back at YT on the “Sunday Morning Futures” thread, one troll touted “81 million reasons” why we’re wrong….YEAH, Riiiight.
The Denial is Deafening among them.
CHASER from Instapundit
CHRIS QUEEN: Chicken Little Leftists. “You would think that being proven wrong so many times would lead leftists to can the histrionics, but they don’t show any signs of stopping anytime soon. But when your policies sound like hysterical middle school girls, so do your tactics.”
She had nothing but praise for the guy. He was, hard as it is to accept in today’s degraded world, a genuinely nice guy.
==
I think if there were any scandals there, they’d have surfaced by now. There’s a critique to be made of Rogers, but not one derived from his feet of clay.
Pingback:Instapundit » Blog Archive » ICYMI: Mr. Rogers has a message from 52 years ago about boys and girls. “If he were to sing this so
At JustTheNews this morning, John Solomon also sees Congress pressing it’s case further against the FBI, et al, and Biden: “ With new evidence, Congress unmasks a multi-year government plot to protect Biden, sully Trump; From search warrants to charges, federal agencies put thumb on scale of justice and elections, new evidence suggests”
https://justthenews.com/accountability/political-ethics/congress-has-begun-unmasking-whole-government-plot-protect-biden
YET ANOTHER NEW ONE THIS MORNING, the Corrupt Rule in America, ”A Catastrophic Implosion… Of The Rule Of Law”-the Politically Corrupt Rule instead-26Jun23-Roger Kimball, AmGreatness via Zerohedge
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/blatant-political-corruption-rot-americas-democracy-explained-under-1000-words
Owen:
Quick math correction: 0.018% of 330,000 = 60 (not 60,000)
330,000 x .00018 = 60
(from your excerpts)..The truth is that bodies come in many forms and lots of children don’t fit the mold…
Defining yourself as another gender is just another mold. A boy does x, I want to do x, therefore I am no longer a girl, but a boy…
My teeth hurt.
Ray Fowler:
You lost some zeros. Population is estimated as 330,000,000.
So 0.00018 x 330,000,000 = 5,940.
0.018% = 0.00018
The trans mafia would counter that if even one troubled soul is less distressed, turning culture and society on its head is necessary. Not for 6000, nor 60, nor 6. One.
Follow the book link Neo provided. Then, read the comments. Lot’s of crazy mommies there.
there aren’t enough straightjackets,
Well, well, well: “The International Swimming Federation (FINA) overwhelmingly voted on Sunday to revoke eligibility for transgender athletes who wish to compete based on gender identity. The new standards make it harder for men to transition and compete in women’s divisions by prohibiting male athletes to compete as women if they went through male puberty. The measure passed with 71.5% approval from the FINA Member Federations. The association is an international governing body for the sport that affects Olympic events.”
So “Lia” Thomas is OUT of the 2024 Olympics: “The decision pulled the plug on former University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas’ aspirations to compete on the international stage as a woman. . . . the new FINA standards will make Thomas ineligible as he underwent male puberty prior to his transition in college.”
https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=19738
Good news, PA Cat. Thanks.
Kate–
You’re very welcome. Maybe the tide is beginning to turn . . .
You can fool some of the people some of the time but ….. Reality (truth) eventually emerges.
Not sure where I saw it, but just recently someone posted video of Fred Rogers going on the offensive against people he saw as trying to confuse children about their sex. It supposedly took place about the time of this broadcast.
From memory, Rogers was either sitting at a table in a state assembly hearing, or on a talk show. He was dead serious, talking to adults like an adult.
I don’t think it made headlines then because to most of America, it seemed outside the Overton Window.
Anyone seen that clip?