Overheard in my favorite restaurant
I was recently in a very blue city, having dinner in a restaurant. There were two couples at a table near me who had fairly loud voices – not obnoxiously so, but loud enough to easily hear because the restaurant was a “cozy” one.
One woman was recounting some health problem she had had while traveling in Germany, and how well she’d been treated there. Then she asked one of the men, who apparently was considered some sort of expert on the subject, “What first-world country has the worst healthcare?”
Sounded like a set-up to me, and I was not surprised when, without a moment’s hesitation or explanation he answered, “The US.”
It was all I could do to keep from springing up, walking the step or two to their table, and asking a few questions, such as, “Then why do so many Canadians who have the money come here for healthcare? And why do I know people with injuries and chronic pain in Canada and the UK who have to wait a year for an MRI? What’s your metric for ‘best’ and ‘worst’?”
I didn’t do it. But I ground my teeth for a while afterwards. It’s the sort of kneejerk US-bashing I hear constantly, and everyone nods as though it’s so obvious that it’s true that there’s no need to even discuss it further.
(Delicious meal, though.)
What I want to know is where you found a “cozy” restaurant?
Everywhere I go nowadays, the background muzac is so loud and obnoxious, you can hardly hear yourself, much less others around you.
Roy: “Everywhere I go nowadays, the background muzac is so loud and obnoxious, you can hardly hear yourself, much less others around you.”
Yes, dammit.
Sounds about right. Such fashionable nonsense is standard dinner conversation among blue voters. I’m mostly able to tune it out at this point. Mostly…
The brainwashing is almost complete for about 60% of the population. In blue states close to 85% from what I saw in CT
“What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.” — Mark Twain
. . . except, members of the bubble never get into trouble for spreading misinformation.
And Twain’s phenomenon is found on both political left and political right.
I have often noticed people saying “In this country, X”, where X is some bad thing. There is rarely an attempt at comparing with the phenomenon in question in other countries, and many of these people have never lived or traveled anywhere else, or seriously studied anywhere else, to have a basis for comparison.
“The idiot who praises, in enthusiastic ton
Each century but this, and every country but his own”
British boy, 9, receives lifesaving surgery for rare cancer in Kansas after being dismissed by UK doctors for five months – even though he couldn’t walk
That is a headline from the Daily Mail.
Often Foreign visitors are treated better than their own citizens.
I have had two instances of using UK health care. For me it was good and didn’t cost me anything. But I think if it had been in the US the care would have been better. We are so lucky to have what we have. Your “Dinner Mates” most likely have the money to get good health care and will do so in the future. But for the average citizen it can and might be so much different if there is “Universal Healthcare”.
“…everyone nods as though it’s so obvious that it’s true that there’s no need to even discuss it further.”
It was non-conversations like that one that started me, over forty years ago, on the road to being a conservative. I was on the left myself, but I kept finding myself thinking “is that actually true?” or, maybe more often, “you aren’t even thinking about the matter in question, you’re just exhibiting reflexes.”
I see….
I often offer to Americans, who do these slights at the USA, to-
get [a job + an apartment +/or a house], in the following countries, for 5-6 years, and then report back to me how “great” a time they had in these countries:
Cuba, Thailand, Vietnam, North Korea, Russia, or [just about anywhere else].
Anyone willing to take on this 5 to 6 year “adventure”?
TR:
That’s why they were stipulating 1st world countries.
Hi Neo:
I mean this totally in jest, but:
You mean, THAILAND isn’t a first world country?
My travel agent LIED to me. *pouts*
Hee, hee, hee!
😀
Like SHIREHOME, I had easy and positive experiences in the UK as a university student. But yes, I think my care in the US would have been “better” too — at least in the sense of more complete med history and attending inquiry. (Not that I needed it — I didn’t.)
My experience in New Zealand during Covid19 was also…um, schizoid or polarising, only more so than in the UK.
On the one hand, it was so easy to see a private physician in Auckland. All I needed was my name a number. Since I didn’t have aNZ number at the time, my email sufficed. How mercifully bureaucracy free!
But with our clinical conversation time, it dawned on me that this University of Melbourne educated doc who married a New Zealander and moved there simply has not kept up with, oh, medical knowledge of the previous decade or two!
Namely, when I talked about Vitamin D supplementation as a flu or Covid preventative, he suggested getting sun — BUT IN the Southern Hemisphere’s WINTER?
As matters turned to my problem with maintaining hormone supplementation outside the US, it eventually became apparent that he was able and comfy with providing me with treatment protocols over 20 years out of date in the US, and no longer used.
Apparently, lack of medical care competitive pressures weren’t working on him in NZ like they do in the US. Hence, the backward conventionalism of dual private and public funded system, similar to the UKs.
Neo’s story reminds me of how deeply alienation I am from these “American” idiots. I have even much patience with these kinds than she does — I bear hatred, outrage, and ill will towards her fellow restaurant patrons.
A couple of years ago I dated for a short time a gal who claimed to be a conservative.
During one dinner she recounted a health crisis she endured a few years earlier while traveling in France, and she marveled about the wonderful medical care she received there “for free.” She said that we (i.e., the USA) should adopt the French system. When I replied that the French system was unsustainable, she responded that I was narrow-minded. (You’re probably speculating that that was our last date. It was.)
These from January this year:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64216269
https://apnews.com/article/health-france-macron-paris-3cc78f7daa6099155c78ce58455c4f79
This from almost a year ago:
https://www.euronews.com/2022/07/08/on-life-support-can-frances-struggling-healthcare-system-be-saved
Reminds me of a center-left blogger some years ago in Portland, OR. He’d recently returned from a trip to Libya (right after they got taken off the no-go list) where he’d learned that literally 20% of all Libyan citizens were paid government agents, so people would only talk to him when they were alone, as *anyone* else had a high chance of being an informant.
The overheard conversation was about how awful the police state we were living in under “W” now is. He said he was incredibly tempted to go over to them and yell “Secret Police! You’re under arrest! Oh wait.. we don’t have that here, and you openly and loudly say such things in public with no fear of any retaliation. Yeah, it’s SO AWFUL…..”
Right On (!), pkudude99!
…If you’ll pardon a 1970s expression.
🙂
wrt Canada
https://www.heritage.org/health-care-reform/report/victory-freedom-the-canadian-supreme-courts-ruling-private-health-care
Hi neo,
Would it be OK for me to include, first world nations, in my idea of- “just about anywhere else”?
This is a bit of an oversimplification, but not much. The broad overall sociopolitical worldview of you’re average American progressive (the fool, not the knave) can be summed up as follows:
‘If we could just get the rich to pay their fair share, and if we could just eliminate racism and White Supremacy, we could turn America into Sweden, circa 1985.’
Many, many progressives genuinely and passionately believe something very close to that as their guiding principle.
The diners you report, Neo, are a symptom of internal American rot. They have become legion, too.
My Swedish SIL visited us around 1990 or so before she was SIL. She liked not waiting in line for shoes.
TR
I worked in the oilfield in Latin America for 4 years. While I enjoyed my time working there, I also came to the conclusion that the common man got treated much better in the US. Turned me from a progressive of the left into an EEVUL right-winger. (Not to mention that I got a view of guerrillas that not many lefties at American universities got to see. )
I had a good experience with the Mexican health care system nearly 50 years ago. A car knocked me down while I was crossing the street in Mexico City. I fell on my arm. I knew that the national medical school was on a subway stop, so I went there. After getting to the national medical school, I asked directions to a clinic. Within three minutes of arriving at a clinic, the MD asked me to raise my arm. I could readily do so. He told me I was good to go. And I was.
Fast service, diagnosis based on common sense and not on an expensive machine.
This is old, but never gets old. Krugman gets p3wned on Canadian Health Care
pkudude99
Michael Totten? He had some good posts on Cuba.
More oikophobia tales, of Gringos criticizing strongly the US. I am reminded of the Sandalistas in the 1980s, who because they had gone on a guided tour with translator to Sandinista Nicaragua, believed that they knew all there was to know about Nicaragua, Central America, and Latin America. All they knew was what the Sandinistas told them.
Think of Bernie Sanders, who after a tour of Cuba in the 1980s- undoubtedly with government-supplied translators- informed us that Cubans had a reverent attitude towards Fidel. Maybe so, but I’d be more comfortable with that belief if Bernie talked in Spanish without the assistance of a translator and without anyone else within hearing distance.
The average American voter is far too lazy to maintain a republic. I wonder what will follow?
Hi Gringo,
Thank you for telling me about your experiences, such as with Mexico’s healthcare system.
I’m just curious, meaning, I’m not trying to started a heated debate, but do you know of anyone who has had run-ins with the Mexican police, or the Cuban police?
A school friend of mine, years ago he told me- His Dad once got [drunk + disorderly], in [His Dad’s front yard].
His Dad decided to try to have a fistfight with one of their neighbors.
My friend, I’ll call him Dan, tried to hug/restrain his Dad, while his Dad was [still throwing punches, while being hugged by Dan].
At about this time, the town cops were called, + they arrived.
Dan’s Dad was still throwing punches, + flailing around, + his Dad accidentally [punched the FACE] of the cop that was walking up BEHIND Dan!
Man. That’s no good.
The cop identified himself as a policeman, + then ordered Dan + his Dad to separate, + stand still.
The cop was carrying a tonfa-like, police club under his shoulder, with the body of the tonfa being held horizontally, + with the short end of the tonfa, facing forward.
In my words- to make sure that Dan’s Dad was now being obedient, + non-violent- the cop gave a good, but not damaging, rap with the tonfa, to the top of his Dad’s head, which made a noticeable, sound like: THOCK!
I think Dan’s Dad was then- seated on the ground and then given a warning about [ not- getting drunk and starting physical fights with people].
I think that Dan’s Dad was then detained, but not arrested, + given a ride to the police station, where he slept through the night, + then was sober + well behaved, when he woke up. He was then let go.
So, after relaying that story about Dan’s Dad’s experience with the police, have you heard any stories from other nations, about similar altercations with the police?
Would Dan’s Dad get a similar treatment in Cuba or Mexico, or would he get a better or worse treatment, or a worse or better treatment, in those two nations?
I’ve heard that some nations would have treated Dan’s Dad better, but I’ve heard that police officers’ methods vary, from one nation to another. I really don’t know about these nations’ methods.
What do you think about this matter? Please tell me what your thoughts are in this matter.
How would cops react to this type of event, in other nations?
I have the benefit of direct experience having lived in other nations, and having relatives still living there. The UK system offers about a 2 year wait for hip replacements for example, my wife’s aunt found out a while ago – and they screen out many of the applicants on the basis of their condition and expected time remaining. She’s in her eighties and has Alzheimer’s, an automatic no-go. It must be a great feeling knowing that the nationalized care you’ve been paying into all those years has rejection rights if they don’t like the look of you. But don’t call it ‘rationing’, mate.
Another set of relatives live in the Caribbean. Their eye surgeries were done in Houston and Miami, thank you very much, while the Type I Diabetes and heart valve replacements were handled at the Mayo Clinic. They are not wealthy, and they don’t have health insurance (almost nobody there does). They also didn’t have any decent options at home, unless health care on a level of, say, 30 years ago is considered ‘decent’.
My Canadian colleagues have no shortage of stories about their wretched health care experiences, where the common theme is ‘wait’. Not as in, ‘wait ’till you hear this one’, more like ‘wait ’till you drop dead’, because even for life-threatening conditions, you’ll be waiting. But don’t call it rationing, eh?
I had a friend pass away from AIDS back in the early 90’s, and it meant that I spent a lot of time in the Medical Center in Houston, there near the end – where a half-dozen top-flight hospitals are all inter-connected, probably one of the best, most comprehensive facilities in the world. Chief Dan George (from One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest) was there at the time, getting a heart-lung transplant. After spending a coupe of weeks there, I can tell you that people from all over the world fairly dominated the patient rosters. You would see family members all over the facility all races and cultures, with their clothing indicative of exotic places.
Of course, the argument is that it’s only the filthy rich that make these pilgrimages. I can tell you from direct experience – that ain’t true. People that can afford to travel to the US for treatment and stay for a while to recover – these may be considered wealthy people at their origin, but here they would simply be middle – upper middle class. They come here because, even if it means 10 or 20 years of debt, they’ll get an opportunity for a full, quality life, one that they can’t get at home. The people you overheard at the cafe are imbeciles – which I’m sure comes as no surprise.
Thinking is hard. Especially when doing so could cause friends to hate you.
Name a liberal who has demonstrated a willingness to think. Dershowitz, Haidt, Turley, Taibbi, Greenwald, Musk, Weiss, Shellenberger, the Weinsteins. Not many.
And some of them, having started thinking, are now leaving the left. Once thinking starts, liberalism’s stupidity becomes hard to ignore.
stan:
Do your friends read your thoughts? Just wondering how things in your world work.
TR:
So your friend’s dad got drunk in his own yard, punched a cop, got sent to the slammer to sleep it off, and was released the next day?
No big deal: any day in LA, Philly, San Francisco, and a number of other cities, you can shoot up with hard drugs and kill someone, and get released the next day. This is not progress.
Hi F,
Yeah, I totally agree.
Cheers.
I was recently in a very blue city…
I experienced this firsthand for 3 or 4 decades – not a pleasant memory. You have my sympathy.
Recently, I just had a similar conversation with a liberal.
I’ve now returned to work after my mother’s death. During a conversation with one of my co-workers I was pointing out how much of a mess it was in dealing with Medicare, FML, etc. The response from this liberal was “See, this is why we need single payer healthcare in this country!”
The idea that the some of the problems I was talking about were because of single payer healthcare (i.e., medicare) didn’t seem to register. That FML is sort of a monopoly in that it is mandated by the government and that I wasn’t able to choose an alternative didn’t register either.
I tried to point out that the best thing to have happen with mom’s care was the hospice agency – they were all a godsend! I cannot thank them enough for their care. I also mentioned that the hospice was a private, for-profit, company and if it didn’t work well I was free to choose another company. It still didn’t register that it was most likely because of this choice of an alternative is part of what made the hospice agency excellent.
There is, and always seem to have been, very much a disconnect between reality and leftist ideology.
People CAN get “the best” care in this country. And everyone pretty much does for acute problems–strokes, MIs, fractures, surgical problems—infected gallbladders and appendice, obstructing kidney stones.
Stuff you show up (appropriately!) in an ER for.
Even our cancer care is, for the majority of people here, reportedly somewhat life prolonging, and available to almost anyone who wants it. (This is an area that would cause me to MUCH research before “signing up” in light of risk/quality of life
benefit v cost–but I am at peace with being mortal.)
What is pretty lacking in the US is HEALTH care–front line, day to day stuff.
Having your doctor know about the importance of and discuss vitamin D levels with you. Having them measure that, and your c reactive protein level, to get a handle on your level of total body inflammation.
But that does NOT need to come from physicians.
That is on each of us and our lifestyle decisions.
And taking some minimal personal responsibility for ourself.
Who here doesn’t know about the benefits of a low carb, high fat diet? The benefits of animal consumption, as far as nutrient density goes? The incredible benefits of daily, minimal exercise? Those 10,000 steps–preferably outdoors in the sun. A vitamin D level of 50 or higher?
But a person has to know what that, AND engage their doctor in discussions, and then he/she needs to be “allowed” to order the labs–an increasingly unlikely scenario as 92% of primary care doctors come to be employees of systems.
As we all saw these past three years, when virtually no patients of employed doctors were given the safe, effective treatment for outpatient Covid that prevents hospitalization.
(Which was used in third world countries. Nearly all of which had far lower rates of Covid deaths than we did, and had it run its course in far less time. (And by thousands of people in Central California too. And all over the southeast US.)
The death rate and prolongation of active Covid was predicted would be the case if mass injections occurred, turning people into carriers and PREVENTING herd immunity.)
VIrtually all patients of system-employed physicians were counseled to get “safe and effective” experimental mRNA injections–which were know by August 2021 to NOT be safe. Well, way before then, actually–as soon as they were rolled out, we saw the clots and strokes and deaths.
Even pregnant women! A first there.
The first peer reviewed myocarditis paper was published in the spring of that year. Over two years ago. A peer reviewed poster presentation was made at our biggest cardiology meeting by Stephen Gundry that September, showing increased cardiac inflammatory markers in a huge majority of his patients as they complied with the early injection protocols in 2021.
Also clearly known by then to NOT be effective at preventing either infection or transmission. Data from Israel, Iceland, Gilbraltar, Ireland and our own Provincetown outbreak (July 4, 2021–80% of htose hospitalized ahd been double injected) made it unquestionable evident that the shots did NOT prevent transmission, and were already being associated with a HIGHER risk of infection–which had been predicted by the experts in the both the mRNA platform development, and experts in vaccination. (Gert van den Boosche, specifically).
Alex Berenson was kicked off Twitter that month for his factual “does not prevent infection or transmission” Tweet. (See Twitter Files.)
But very very few system-employed doctors were reading anything except CDC approved messaging–and why would they?
How could you live with yourself if you knew you were the one actually killing babies by telling your pregnant patients to get injected with an experimental mRNA that makes a dangerous spike protein?
You know, if you actually BOTHERED TO THINK for even a minute about what you were doing?!!
The data showing the huge miscarriage rate got teased out of the NEJM article that got published in spring 2021 (IIRC) saying it was “safe.”
Kinda sorta depends on what “safe” means, right???
So that too has been known for a couple of years now.
(Yes, this particularly APPALLS me.)
Better to just not know, right?
I’ve long known about the suppression of innate and cellular immunity–the now well Tweeted shift from IgG3 to IgG 4 dominance, that is likely associated with the cancers and other viral infections that are raging—see HIV.
From pre prints and peer reviewed journal articles. That too was predicted.
Did your doctor know???
Did your doctor stop recommending shots? No boosters is what you should be looking for, if you are looking for an informed, critically thinking physician reading on their own, IMHO.
(If you have an autoimmune disease, and they were cautious to start with, maybe counseled you to wait and see before getting any–you have SCORED on the doctor front. A number of rheumatologists in my city took that route.)
Primary care system-employed docs have almost no control over their practices any more.
The young ones are “educated” (brainwashed) into being team-playing algorithm followers, and have MASSIVE debt– six figures is typical–not a combo that encourages thought, or courage.
They are herd practioners, so they do not–almost can NOT –put an individual patient’s well being first.
They are busy checking off boxes on the EMR–you know, the “patient prescribed statin” one, even though the data shows almost no benefit in meaningful numbers and it causes diabetes in ?12% of long term patients– so their employer can send out your bill and not have it be rejected by the insurance company.
(See Malholtra’s early youTubes–statin dangers are what he initially became known for, not the Stop the Shots position he, like Dr. John Campbell, came VERY LATE to the table for.)
So, you do you.
80% of health care costs are for lifestyle related, largely preventable issues.
Use this incredible internet thing to become an expert on health, or at least fluent in it.
Especially if you are overweight, hypertensive, have an elevated HgbA 1c.
YOU can make that ALL go away–and by doing so, greatly reduce your risk of dementia. Most people who eat only 30 grams of carbs a day get off their oral diabetic drugs in less than six months. Many by three.
You won’t even have to see these system -employed doctors hardly any more, as you won’t be needing to get prescriptions renewed if you aren’t on drugs!
There’s a big win-win.
And you’ll be sticking it to BigPharma too! 😉
Learn the lesson of the past three years.
Don’t deny who your doctor showed you he/she is. Act accordingly.
Do that Serenity prayer thing–accept what you can’t change, if you can’t get an independent doctor.
But do change what you can.
Get informed; ask questions.
Yes, we’d all LOVE to have a Marcus Welby take care of us.
But just as no mom vacuums in pearls while wearing a dress like June Cleaver did any more, there are almost no Dr. Welbys left in the world.
Related…(unfortunately)…
“What Made Doctors Do the Right Thing During COVID-19?”—
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2023/06/01/what-made-doctors-do-right-thing-during-covid.aspx
Ira said: “A couple of years ago I dated for a short time a gal who claimed to be a conservative.
During one dinner she recounted a health crisis she endured a few years earlier while traveling in France, and she marveled about the wonderful medical care she received there “for free.” She said that we (i.e., the USA) should adopt the French system.”
My sister lives in France (but she never claimed to be conservative). She raves about how awesome socialism is and “free” health care for everyone. She was telling me about a trip to the hospital where she laid on a gurney in the hallway for eight hours, waiting for treatment. I asked her how many times that happened to her in the States. Crickets.
Too many people are so selfish they have no respect or gratitude for what they do have.
I see it every day.
If you’ve never spent any time where things are much less than in the US, just maybe a mandatory short stint in the Peace Corps will open your eyes to how great this place really is, even though it’s deliberately being damaged.
To have a global government, there can’t be such disparity between standards of living in different places; ergo, our quality of living must go down, which is exactly wht is being done.
“…deliberately being damaged…”
Indeed…
Here’s something—long and vastly unpleasant—that explains the reasons for the direction the US is taking, including, among other things, why companies are choosing to commit suicide—in order to “survive”—and why Mike Bloomberg, having much bigger fish to fry, does not seem to care a whit about the fate of the city he once led…
https://thetwomen.com/video-d?_ef_transaction_id=1de2b0eb58fd413d89431d084a491cce
Short version: We are being finessed by unscrupulous, delusional, orwellian ideologues…with a most unfortunate messianic streak.
Related (painfully)…
“How the Teachers Union Broke Public Education;
“A former public school teacher documents the profound betrayal of America’s students”—
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-teachers-union-broke-public-education
Key grafs (one of multitudes):
“…At one time, the teachers proudly viewed education as an engine of social mobility. Today, the union is a captured institution, and it argues that the country must be remade for education to even be possible. Favoring ideological indoctrination over academic achievement fundamentally devalues teaching and learning. It is this devaluing that was the nail in the coffin for the school system….” [Emphasis mine; Barry M.]
Randi Weingarten and the Democratic Party have a ton to answer for.
…But what are the odds that it’ll ever happen…?
The other diners were just helping each other keep reality at bay.
I see this behavior every day. Upsetting the herd with facts is considered to be terribly rude and will not elicit reasoned debate.
My perception of the situation, based on talking to others who’ve lived overseas (UK, Netherlands) is that “general practitioner” type care is easily accessible and “affordable” because someone else pays. Anything that requires surgery, or a specialist, is a nightmare. My sister-in-law lived in the Netherlands for 20 years, and she also described the standard of care there as being something out of the 1980’s – fine if you were already healthy, or had an acute and straightforward condition like a broken leg, but a disaster if you had something complicated or serious.
She said that we (i.e., the USA) should adopt the French system. When I replied that the French system was unsustainable, she responded that I was narrow-minded.
The French system is unsustainable in France. It would be a huge improvement here because it uses market forces instead of rationing. I did a study of why it would work here. That was before Obamacare turned the US system upside down.
If anyone is interested, it starts here.
The French problem is that the economy is not sustainable.
A couple of the above comments mention free or cheap medical treatments in France. A friend of mine had a similar experience with his wife in France. She got significant hospital care and they only paid a couple or few $K.
One has to be careful about assuming that the French system is bearing all other costs. I don’t know the precise facts of the matter, but I pointed out to him that if they offered up his wife’s Medicare card numbers etc., then it is likely that our Medicare system would reimburse the French system at some level.
One of the lesser appreciated functions of our State Dept. is to maintain a myriad of treaties that govern all kinds of international actions including transfer payments between nations.
______
In the last few years of my father’s life, we spent a couple days getting him checked out at the Mayo clinic in Rochester, MN. An amazing and incredibly efficient place.
Mike K – I remember reading that back in 2008/2009, and thinking that it would be an enormous improvement over our current situation in the US. But it seems like even people who are on HSA plans where they, in theory, are ‘spending their own money’ can’t or don’t make efforts to control their costs…
…though perhaps that’s because there’s no meaningful way to determine costs in advance. Even if you can get a quote or estimate from your doctor, they don’t honor it at treatment time. I’ve been able to optimize things at the margins – e.g., purchase my diabetic testing supplies from less expensive retailers, or buy them in bulk to drive the price down – but anything else that has to go through the ‘gatekeepers’ is stuck at an arbitrary price that you can’t see in advance…
I find it frustrating listening to Progressives in restaurnats mouthinfg off and just about everything that they say is wrong.
“British boy, 9, receives lifesaving surgery for rare cancer in Kansas after being dismissed by UK doctors for five months – even though he couldn’t walk” [Martin @ 5:51 pm]
Patient: “I need a wart removed.”
British Dr.: “It’s a simple procedure. The waiting list is nine months.”
U.S. Dr: : “It’s a simple procedure. It’ll cost $50,000.”
Canadian Dr.: “Have you considered euthenasia?”
I live in a place that is extremely blue, but otherwise extremely lovely to live in. I just realized why I seldom go out anymore.
My favorites are the liberals who think that pointing out how backward to US is is the height of sophistication in neighborhood party conversation.
For example, there is this neighbor lady who actually knows something about software that I used to like to talk to. But these days she only wants to tell all of us how brilliant Joe Biden is!
It is pretty obvious that she is very concerned that he is NOT brilliant, and tries to make it go away by telling everyone the opposite! There must be a better way, dear!
Thanks, Mike K. Your article is very interesting.
When Obamacare was being “debated” (aka rammed down our throats), a business associate remarked something to the effect of, “Well, we have to start with the premise that the healthcare system in the US is broken.” I pressed him to define WHAT is broken, but he could not come up with an answer.
This seems to be the typical left-leaning behavior … declare something to be a problem without any evidence, and then demand a solution that involves more government spending and more bureaucratic power.
Ray Van Dune:
You might enjoy this post of mine on a relevant essay by John Updike.
My sister in law lived in the UK for many years; she opted, while living there to buy private medical insurance. She told me several times that the NHS system there is horrible.
I used to travel very frequently to western Canada. A small business owner there told me how terrible their system was.
I was in Calgary, Alberta on business; newspaper article there describing how an individual – who had suffered a heart attack while driving with his wife (she was driving) – was denied admission to emergency care to two hospitals there because he needed to go to the hospital assigned to him.
He died in his car while is wife was rushing to get him to the “correct” hospital.
Some years ago I had to go to the emergency room (to a hospital in a city near Seattle). I was the ONLY “anglo” in the waiting room; everybody waiting was hispanic. They use the emergency room to obtain free – literally free- medical care.
I was seen and treated just fine (and most likely were all the un-insured – if not illegal- hispanics).
Imagine going to the grocery store – after paying your food insurance “co-pay,” – and there are no prices marked on any item. At checkout they provide you a list of what you just purchased, but no prices are shown on the receipt.
A week or so later you receive in the mail from your food insurance company what they paid, what you need to pay, and what the grocery store was “supposed” to charge. All detailed for your reading pleasure in obscure, impenetrable “codes” that require a modern version of an Enigma Machine to de-code.
Welcome to the US system of medical billing, where insurance companies and the medical community have literally rigged prices and where the consumer – a most likely the doctor – has zero idea of what a particular treatment costs.
The medical community should be compelled to post all prices – just as you see for anything else you purchase. If ANY other industry rigged prices, people would go to jail.
Many years ago, grocery stores did not have “unit pricing,” (other than for items sold by the pound). They were forced by the govt (one of the very very very rare things the govt. did right) to do this. The grocery store industry, as you can imagine , was kicking and screaming why it could not be done.
Well, it was and it allows the consumer to make better choices.
Why do I bring up the food / grocery analogy? because food , like access to medical care, is life supporting. No food you die; no medical care access, you can die.
It is the TOTAL revenue stream of medical insurance companies – not just their profit – that is passed on to the consumer. After all, like any other business enterprise they have to pay for rent, utilities, salaries, employee medical/pension benefits, taxes + plus earn a profit,etc.
It is the consumer that winds up paying for this and it is a large reason why medical care is so expensive.
Imagine having to buy and pay for “food insurance.” What do you think would happen to food prices?
Do you think, if this was the case, you would still get those grocery store flyers in the mail announcing “on sale” items?
Imagine having to buy gasoline insurance to fill your car? If you think 4 bucks a gallon is too high, imagine what the price would be if you needed gas insurance (and that price would not be shown on the pump, and neither are the state and federal outrageous gas taxes).
My deceased father – two weeks before he passed – spent 5 days in the hospital. No surgeries; just some tests and observation.
His very, very good union insurance plan, paid what medicare did not; his union plan had to pay $75,000 !! (yep, 15K per day).
The hospital knew my father had insurance,so they knew they could charge outrageous prices.
If he was indigent and/or only had medicare, who thinks the hospital would have charged 15K per day??
There needs to be cost transparency in the medical services industry, just like there is for most things people buy. This would go a long way to reducing the cost of medical care for the consumer.
From the obamacare debate days, I recall that a study was done that showed the US had the longest life expectancy when you factor out auto accident deaths and homicide.
Also I had a study linked (I don’t have the link now) that showed the 5 year survival rate for various forms of cancer in the US and Europe (by country). The US was ahead for all types of cancer, in some cases by a wide margin ins some cases a very narrow margin. But always ahead.
That’s why they were stipulating 1st world countries.
–neo
Medical systems aside, my understanding is that the cost of living is significantly more expensive in Europe for a similar lifestyle in America and Americans don’t know this.
@ JohnTyler – President Trump thought the same way, and he tried.
This is the only thing that came up on Google’s page 1 (no big surprise), and most of the article is about why “it won’t work” — could be because nobody tried it.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/hospital-price-transparency-trump-rule/index.html
“The American Hospital Association last month wrote to the Joe Biden transition team asking the incoming administration to exercise discretion in enforcing compliance with the rule and to evaluate whether it should be rescinded.”
It was probably rescinded along with every other Trump EO, regardless of whether or not they made sense or helped anyone.
Richard Aubrey
If a lib or average mindless American reads that they’ll say ” It’s Heritage…..they always write that…”
My wife got to spend overnight in a Swiss hospital awhile ago when we were traveling.
Do you want a private or semi-private room? Semi private will do thank you. Well semi-private turned into 6 people in the room when she was admitted. With another person brought in overnight for a total of 7 people.
Hospital bill at that time (2007 ish) $6,000 US + for an overnight. No surgical procedures at all.
Rich Cook.
They will. They have to. But some will actually believe it. Not that it will change their minds or what they say.
Thing is, America’s worst. In everything. Thus, comparatively, everybody else is better. Evidence is not required.
I love all the anecdotes but try the Commonwealth Fund report for facts. Of eleven rich nations studied the USA scores last for nearly all categories but especially equity of access and health outcomes. USA also spends nearly double the average amount to arrive last. Oh and I am a Republican supporter, advocate of personal firearms and a small govern capitalist. But I can read. US healthcare has some amazing achievements but overall it is crap. The study I mention has has reproducible results for decades, but as long as you think in anecdotes then you won’t notice the pigs are running your farm.