The reasoning of the Democrats I know
I found that the following statement – embedded in an article by Walter Russell Mead, that focuses on a different issue – encapsulates the attitude of so many of the Democrat voters I know.
Here it is:
We live in a singular century. Faced, apparently, with the possibility that the next century could witness either the extinction of humanity or the establishment of a global utopia, both our hopes and our fears tend to be larger than life. Political opponents are not just people with whom we disagree. They are people whose misguided views could destroy the planet. Do ordinary standards of political competition still apply when your opponents’ policies will destroy human civilization? Should they be allowed free speech? Should they be able to organize politically even if their electoral victories would destroy life on Earth?
Living in the shadow of the singularity changes the way politics and society work.
The attitude isn’t limited to Democrats. Many on the right share the apocalyptic vision (I do to a certain extent, but not as strongly as some). It’s just that the right has a very different take on the dangers, which boil down to the end of liberty and the rule of law, as well as the splintering of society into special interest groups based on categories of race and sex. Fears of these particular dangers are actually more of a reaction of the right to the Democrats’ attitude as described in the quote.
In addition, I’ve not yet met a person on the right who thinks that utopia is even possible, much less looming in the next century. The right is more inclined to think that dreams that we can actually achieve utopia are themselves dangerous. That’s my point of view, as well.
What is perhaps most astonishing is that, according to most polls (not always reliable, of course), a large majority of the nation is pessimistic about the future, believing America to be headed in the wrong direction, yet roughly half the country would vote tomorrow (once again!) for the doddering and senile octogenarian who has, undeniably, been our very worst president since LBJ and whose every action and every appointment seem calculated towards engineering the destruction of the republic.
As a kid I used to go the the movie show every time a new “monster movie” came out. I never missed the scary movie on local tv late every Friday night. I fell asleep every night with the covers pulled up over my head.
I still enjoy an occasional horror flick, if it’s either a classic or something far better than the usual drivel churned out these days. But I quit my “addiction” to being frightened long ago.
These fearmongers aren’t noble or altruistic. Either they get some sick satisfaction from being contemporary Chicken Little’s, or they are in the advantageous position of being able to profit greatly off of their promotion of hysteria.
Neo: “…as well as the splintering of society into special interest groups based on categories of race and sex.”
In other words, the breaking up of a society that is too large and too diverse into units that are more naturally compatible and harmonious. The old Soviet Union had ethnic and religious (although not sex based) differences within its borders, that were kept together by a repressive and intrusive central government whose official “religion” was atheism. With the end of the USSR the various constituent republics reverted to their natural boundaries based on ethnicity, culture, language, and religion.
Indians (dot, not feather) in the SFO Bay Area have nothing in common with Hispanics in southern California. Not ethnically, culturally, religiously or linguistically. The same goes for Chinese and Haitians. Ditto Persians and Filipinos. At this point, the only thing keeping half of America together is antagonism toward the other half, and the only thing keeping everyone together is consumerism and low interest rates.
The moment when the whole thing falls apart is approaching – maybe not within yours or my lifetime, but it’s coming. Will it be relatively peaceful, like the breakup of the USSR, or will DC try to contain the fracture, possibly resorting to force?
I have met utopians on the right. They’ve all be libertarian and transhumanist.
And there weren’t too many.
The really sad part is that their belief in the destruction of the planet has become a religious obsession. We are now over 30 years since the start of this religion disguised as “science”. No amount of data or reasoned argument will change those minds. Thus, they continue their Inquisition to rid the country of the non-believers. Dark Ages, indeed.
This is of the same class as if you think Trump is ‘literally Hitler’ why wouldn’t you take all these extreme measures to stop him.
What’s a few broken norms to stop ‘literally Hitler’…
Spot on Physicsguy. And in that time we’ve gone through numerous causes of the Apocalypse. In my lifetime we’ve had
1. Exhaustion of Fossil Fuels (there’s more oil reserves now than when that panic was on)
2. Mass Starvation through overpopulation (our food production has increased, while rate of population growth has decreased)
3. Ozone Depletion (seems to have already repaired itself)
4. Global Cooling (Replaced by global warming)
5. Global Warming (Replaced by Climate change)
6. Climate Change. (not in evidence over the last 30 years)
“Faced, apparently, with the possibility that the next century could witness either the extinction of humanity or the establishment of a global utopia, . . . .” [W. R. Mead]
I agree with neo that it’s not left-right symmetric. She writes, “It’s just that the right has a very different take on the dangers” and “I’ve not yet met a person on the right who thinks that utopia is even possible, much less looming in the next century.”
The left almost invariably compares its utopia with present-day reality. Cue RFK: “Some men see things as they are, and ask why. I dream of things that never were, and ask why not.”
In a contest between utopia and present-day reality, utopia almost invariably wins out.
I write “almost”, because given the left’s vision of (their) utopia, it doesn’t win out with *me*, and I’ll wager it doesn’t win out for many/most of the commenters on this blog. But it does tend to win out with people who are just plain not into socio- cultural- political- economic- thought. “Imagine no possessions” [Lennon] and all that.
Those latter people have no answer to the left’s utopia, because they’re just not involved in that sort of thought. And so they’re more easily swayed by the dreamy utopia (cue RFK again), especially when it’s compared with reality.
Think dreamy versus dreary.
No, virtually, no one on the right thinks that utopia is even possible, and the right’s utopia would not look very much like the left’s utopia anyway. If anything, the right’s utopia would be libertarian, seems to me — but with a major exception for religious-right people. (I can’t speak for that latter crowd and I won’t even try. They’re good folks, based on my personal experience, but we do diverge at critical points.)
Maybe a good modern-day analogue might be pre-Musk Twitter and contemporary Twitter — very, very different landscapes. And very, very different paradigms.
“The right is more inclined to think that dreams that we can actually achieve utopia are themselves dangerous. That’s my point of view, as well.” [neo again] Mine, too.
The road to hell, good intentions, and all that.
As Israeli Historian Dr. Jacob Leib Tolman wrote in his 1952 book “The Origins of Totalitarian Democracy,” Leftist ideologues will “force us to be free,” as they define “freedom,”and anyone who stands in the way of their march towards Utopia will moved–by one means or the other–out of the way.
Listening to Andrew Heaton’s latest podcast where he interviews journalist Will Storr on Storr’s recent book, “The Status Game: On Human Life and How to Play It” I realized that’s the main catalyst for the mess we are in. Humanities’ innate quest for status.
Heaton and Storr discuss whether there is a way to use that drive for the good of society. A culture awarding status on something like virtue, rather than material wealth, or physical strength or, even mental acuity. This may be possible**. Communists see the peril of the “status” gene and try to quell it by making us economic equals. That hasn’t seemed to work. A lot of broken eggs and still no omelets.
I have some very close and good friends who are liberal. We intentionally avoid politics. I respect them and think they are good and intelligent and they seem to sincerely believe the same of me. Because we generally avoid politics (and religion, it seems) I assume they must think I am ignorant of the details of climate change, causes of poverty, issues with criminal justice… On the other hand, I think I truly have a pretty good grasp of their knowledge on the topics.
They assume I am uninformed. I know they are uninformed. Because society and culture affirm their beliefs they don’t take the time to seek counter arguments. They have the status of agreeing with our Elites and status is their goal. Because my goal is truth, even if it harms my own status, I am much better informed on the entirety of the subjects contained in the status shibboleths they wear on their sleeves.
* You can find the podcast here, if interested: https://mightyheaton.com/the-political-orphanage/the-answer-is-always-status
** I guess what makes this even trickier than other times of great, political upheaval. Both sides may believe they are truly pursuing virtue. Parents who allow their children’s natural hormones to be blocked by drugs certainly aren’t driven by a desire to depict material status. Parents homeschooling their children are not doing that to increase their material status. They must be doing it to be virtuous.
What happens when human society has two overarching and conflicting ideals of virtue?
Big Things–such as climate change–don’t need detail, or, to put it another way, detail which challenges the Big Thing can be dismissed because the existence of the Big Thing is so important.
It’s one thing if a First Line Actor in the thing–Kerry in Climate Change for example–says something which turns out to be wrong.
But tell one of your friends about their plans to surf up at Point Barrow for their fortieth birthday and….blank looks. It doesn’t matter. The next nonsense will be true, no matter how many nonsense(s) have fallen flat in the last couple of decades.
It’s one thing for the big shots to be pulling the strings, it’s another for the Believers making themselves look…..I dunno…”stupid” doesn’t cover it. I keep saying, we’re H. Sap. We spent a million years coming up the hard way and those who fooled themselves about potential problems and solutions got subtracted from the gene pool.
I just don’t get it.
M J R – It’s fitting that RFK lifted that quote from a George Bernard Shaw play, the line being spoken by the serpent while tempting Eve.
Rufus. I think status is overblown in some cases. In your example of homeschooling, the motivation may be an unacceptable public school environment and such private schools as are available are also problematic or too expensive.
In addition, there’s a negative status associated with it–bible thumping creationists or some such.
I guess I can understand why Democrats are doing what they’re doing based on their believe that Trump is “literally Hitler,” but the damage that they are doing to our institutions will not be easy to repair, if it is even possible to do so.
100s of millions killed either because the existensial threat was here, or utopia could be gained, or just because power could be used to do it.
Walter Russel Mead, what a maroon.
This country has changed into something unrecognizable. My best friend just relocated to Europe with his wife to get away from here. He said people do not act like they are in a continual pressure cooker and smile more readily. Life seems to be for living and not producing. Where they are is not rich by any stretch of the imagination but people seem satisfied. We seem to exist to serve the machine.
The Climate Scam has been the most successful fiction in history. The Great South Sea Bubble pales in comparison. The “Tulip Mania” really only involved one country, which by chance seems to be deep into this one.
This book is a classic but it may be outdated by the Climate Scam.
On the subject of Utopia, please read the sci-fi novel ‘”Past Master” by that great writer and archconservative, the late R. A. Lafferty. Pitifully inadequate plot summary: Thomas More is transported 1000 years into the future to serve as the figurehead president of a utopian regime on the planet Astrobe. Weirdness, horror, and humor ensue.
yes but they did it wrong, sarc,
college and graduate school seems to empty out grey matter, like in spocks brain,
Rich Cook:
Where in Europe did they go? I have never experienced Europe as being smiley, and certainly not more smiley than the US.
You folks are refusing to acknowledge that the communists(democrats) of the teacher’s union have had four generations which they have trained into marching to the right tune at exactly the right time. Four generations of children have grown up and find it very, very hard to think for themselves–to search for what is fact, or true. They hear instructions in so many ways and they respond without individual courage–that was taken out of them a long time ago.
RTF discusses virtue at 6:55 above, and concludes, “What happens when human society has two overarching and conflicting ideals of virtue?”
Short answer: You get Robespierre (or one of his copycats). Robespierre addressed the National Convention in May 1794 (less than 3 months before his own date with Mme. la Guillotine) on the relationship between virtue and terror:
What is the fundamental principle of democratic or popular government – that is to say, the essential mainspring upon which it depends and which makes it function? It is virtue: I mean public virtue… that virtue is nothing else but love of fatherland and its laws…. It is necessary to stifle the domestic and foreign enemies of the Republic or perish with them.
Now, in these circumstances, the first maxim of our politics ought to be to lead the people by means of reason and the enemies of the people by terror… The basis of popular government in time of revolution is both virtue and terror. Terror without virtue is murderous, virtue without terror is powerless. Terror is nothing else than swift, severe, indomitable justice – it flows, then, from virtue.
You can read a longer excerpt from this speech here: https://alphahistory.com/frenchrevolution/robespierre-virtue-terror-1794/
“Virtue without terror is powerless.” The first time I ever read those words (as an undergrad), the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I have the same reaction today.
Rich Cook,
I’ve had a very similar experience as your friends. The difference was moving from Connecticut to Florida. People are producing here, but also smiling, friendly, and in general of a much better mental state of health.
Utopia, I believe, was a term created by Thomas Moore from two Greek words-no and where. His meaning was for utopia to mean Nowhere. I agree with the original meaning.
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you, if a certain WaPo columnist has his way:
“Bacon, who used to be a congressional and White House correspondent, urged people to harass Republicans in public places such as church and the grocery store in response to some of their recent legislation. . . . For Bacon, the answer is harassment, ‘I think ultimately we have to, in the short term, shame [Republicans] out of passing the most aggressive versions of these bills, criticize them enough to make sure that they are told when they go to church or when they go to the grocery store that “you passed a terrible bill and acted like a bigot.”‘ . . . Bacon conceded that it may not work, but harassment is still a worthwhile strategy, ‘I’m not saying it’s a foolproof plan, I’m just saying that if these legislators have to walk in public and live their life, and I do think you want to make clear that you have done something terrible.’ For the Washington Post and Comedy Central, refusing to give minors puberty blockers is ‘something terrible,’ but harassing them in public is something that is good and necessary.”
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/alex-christy/2023/04/27/washpost-columnist-urges-people-harass-republicans-grocery-store
It is not that I don’t believe in an utopia. It is that my idea of utopia is something that I can achieve in my lifetime. What I found, through observation of people less interested in politics, is that utopia already exists across the United States, if you will just observe and enjoy it.
Now the notion of a perfect immortal utopian society is something else. Perfect for whom? Nothing is immortal. My idea of utopia may not fit others from a societal standpoint. Arguing about such things is the furthest in my mind from any utopia. Also, my idea of utopia or utopian society is not at all the same as Pagan, Vegan, Fundamentalist whatever religion, or being communal when I’m introverted. If that is someone else’s definition of utopia, well I can not help them get there, ever, and will not give up my utopia to achieve theirs.
Physicsguy
Hopefully at the end of the year I’ll be moving to Missouri. The people are so friendly and self reliant. At this point I just want to be left alone. I’m originally from New Jersey.
Neo-
Serbia. He is African American with a Serb wife. My nick name for him is Black Serb. He loves the country and her family can’t get enough of him. His family, for some reason, is not close to him. Every time he goes there he comes back refreshed. In view of what is going on here they decided to stay.
Visions of the perfectability of man usually lead to piles of bodies reaching to the sky.
A Singapore resident, at Twitter, said that a lot of people there *used* to want to move to the US, but now, not so many. She thought the main factor was the gender stuff, which is perceived as just crazy.
I can assure you that the Conservative Evangelical crowd is about convinced that we are heading towards the worst tribulation period in all of history aka ” end times”. ( I think the Mormon Glenn Beck is right there too.) The move towards globalism , growing hostility towards Christianity, the insanity of ” gender identity” and the talk of ESG scores etc sounds a lot like common evangelical interpretation of the book of Revelation in the Bible – world government , ( I have my doubts about that understanding, based on contextual clues in the scriptures, English translations , not withstanding. ) widespread deception, persecution of believers, being forced to go along (receiving the mark of the beast) in order to buy and sell, hostility towards Israel, etc…Having said that , most standard American evangelicals have been told they are getting ” raptured” away before it all really goes sideways. I keep telling them to read Matthew chapter 24. From what I can tell, that rapture is After the great Tribulation.
Rich Cook:
It may be more about how nice his in-laws are than anything about Serbia itself. That said, I’ve certainly never been to Serbia.
PA Cat:
I wrote this post about that Robespierre quote about virtue and terror.
“They are people whose misguided views could destroy the planet. Do ordinary standards of political competition still apply when your opponents’ policies will destroy human civilization? Should they be allowed free speech? Should they be able to organize politically even if their electoral victories would destroy life on Earth?”
What reveals that to be rationalization, rather than reasoning is that when they are confronted with facts that challenge their core rationalization that the fate of the world is at stake, rather than respond with reasoned rebuttal, they ignore contrary facts and respond with demonization. Which is akin to a kind of religious fervor toward unbelievers.
“You can’t reason someone out of a position that was never reached through reason” an observation attributed to Benjamin Franklin
Hello Neo,
The folloing is a lengthy post with links. The preview function seems inoperative … at least with the computer and browser I happen to be using. Hope the comment is not just a jumble of misfired HTML instructions.
So, I was reading some older publications the other day and thought of this blog, but could not justify leaving the info on any basis involving some principle of relevance. Then, I looked in this evening.
And as we seem continually edging toward a social war of some sort, and because we apparently cannot even communicate with each other across political divides because we are inhabiting radically different psychological and moral worlds … I will leave the following.
Folks can make of the studies what they will.
But given the clear and unchallenged differentials seen in the published material with regard to the prevalence of mood disorders and variations in mental well-being between conservatives and progressives, and between conservatives and ardently progressive young females in particular, I thought it was worth a revisit.
Regarding the question you mooted then, one might naturally and further ask why some people tend to see events as much more potentially cataclysmic than others tend to.
The papers below offer a potentially coherent explanation not only as to why there is a greater occurrence of anxiety disorders in the United States than in some other nations, but offer suggestions as to who it is in the U.S. that in significant measure populates that mood disorder and anxiety cohort and why.
A certain Nation-X purportedly – and in what turns out to be a very curious twist – has a population in which the incidences of depression and anxiety disorders are proportionally very much less than in the U.S.
Yet even granting that, mental health disorders and anxiety disorders in the United States, while greater proportionally when comparing national population to national population, are not, as we have seen revealed in various surveys, evenly distributed throughout American ideological sub groupings; but rather are seen to a greater or lesser degree correlating with political and social ideology.
Yet oddly – or so it at first seems – Nation-X has in fact a population which express to the level of 80%, a particular genetic trait which is hypothesized to dispose people to anxiety and depression. And yet, over in Nation-X, the population is reportedly comparatively much less prone to experience those mental health issues than in the United States.
How can this be?
Well, the researchers suggest social structures and values have adapted or coevolved in a way to accommodate this genetic predisposition. Over there in Nation-X they have solved their anxiety problem by embracing collectivism.
Now, I hope this is not true. Because if it is, we can pretty well infer what is really going on here in the U.S., and why there seems to be no rational solution or way to satisfy the needs and demands of some of our population. Unless of course, you are satisfied being told what to do, and with living in a collectivist hyper monitored society, there is just no good way to resolve the problem we face while inhabiting the same polity.
Because, they cannot compromise. Their psychological needs will not allow them to rest until they are affirmed and supported and validated by everyone; and this includes you mister … no ifs, ands, or buts.
For their very psychological stability, they require from you, what you neither need nor want from them. And what they need in order to feel normal, is for you to give up your freedom.
Culture–gene coevolution of individualism–collectivism and the serotonin transporter gene. Joan Y. Chiao and Katherine D. Blizinsky https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842692/
“The relationship between measures of individualism and collectivism and the impact of COVID-19 across nations.” Ravi Philip Rajkumar, Department of Psychiatry, Jawaharlal Institute of Postgraduate Medical Education and Research (JIPMER), Pondicherry, India https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666535221000689
Is there a genetic contribution to cultural differences? Collectivism, individualism and genetic markers of social sensitivity.
Baldwin M. Way corresponding author and Matthew D. Lieberman
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2894685/
But I was born that way!
Variant at serotonin transporter gene predicts increased imitation in toddlers:relevance to the human capacity for cumulative culture
Kari Britt Schroeder, Philip Asherson, Peter R. Blake,
Susan K. Fenstermacher and Kimberly J. Saudino
Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences, Boston University, 64 Cummington Mall, Boston, MA 02215,
USA
Department of Social Genetic and Developmental Psychiatry, Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and
Neuroscience, 16 De Crespigny Park, London SE5 8AF, UK
Department of Psychological Science, University of Vermont, 2 Colchester Avenue, Burlington, VT 05405, USA
Neo–
I first came across the general frightfulness of 1794 Paris in a book by Stanley Loomis titled Paris in the Terror, which was first published in 1964. My best friend in high school’s parents had bought a copy of it, and I asked to borrow it (I was then a high school senior). Loomis (who died at the age of 49 in 1972 when he was struck by a car in the Place de la Concorde) was an excellent writer who served as an intelligence officer in the Pacific Theater during WWII. It was during his service on Okinawa that he got interested in eighteenth-century French history. He doubtless learned about terror firsthand from his wartime experience.
Anyway . . . I couldn’t put his book down even though it contained the stuff of nightmares. I finally decided to buy a secondhand paperback copy because the book is a keeper.
Democrats, um, reasoning?
Did I hear that right?
Yer sure yer not joking?
OK, well here we go…from the “Can’t Make This Stuff Up” Files:
After YEARS of questioning Trump’s mental health—or rather denying that Trump was competent to lead at all—we now have the NYT EARNESTLY declaring (WRT Joe Biden):
“…’Government Can Function Without A Healthy President‘ “—
https://blazingcatfur.ca/2023/04/27/nyt-on-joe-biden-government-can-function-without-a-healthy-president/
(Of course, that assumes that Biden’s really President, doesn’t it…on several levels!)
Yep, the NYT showing to one and all exactly why it has been surpassed—and outclassed—as the nation’s “paper of record” by the Babylon Bee (with the NY Post a very close second)….
DNW, interesting stuff…
…but how might one know whether such “rationalizations” are merely ways for Big Pharma to earn even more money on their “anti-depressants”?
That is, “You were born that way! Here, have some more of these wondrous little babies!! What’s that? Pills not strong enough? Don’t work anymore? Hey, no problemo! Have some ‘a these…. They ought to do the trick. And if they don’t, well, don’t worry—SERIOUSLY!—we have all kinds of others….”
no the rapture starts off the tribulation, yes i’ve mentioned matthew 24, since my pastor referenced it, digital currency could be that mark no,
https://twitter.com/JeremyRedfernFL/status/1651821036688621569?cxt=HHwWgoC-xeWeuewtAAAA
Thanks for that link, Miguel, especially for the Randi Weingarten cameo a bit further down from the top.
Ah well, just another lying sack o’ s*** (in fact, what an incredible piece of work she is…how does one even begin…)…
…STILL, one MUST be grateful to her for coming to Virginia and doing her absolute best to “persuade” the voters there to elect Youngkin…
(Or maybe one should thank McAuliffe for inviting her?—In fact, it WAS a glorious team effort…Maybe “Biden” will ask her to spearhead, as it were, “his” upcoming basement campaign….)
To state the argument is to refute it.
Any person possessing even a tiny shred of self-awareness, humility or wisdom would immediately understand how brain dead stupid the Democrats’ belief is. And how easily it descends into the worst of evils. History informs. Or should.
Unfortunately, there are no Democrats with self-awareness, humility or wisdom. Not a single one. If I’m wrong, name them. I’ll wait.
BTW — Mead’s formulation is also an effort to provide a tiny fig leaf for the evil that Democrats have committed in their effort to become Big Brother. We can see this by the basis for the insane hatred of Trump. There is no evidence to support claims he is a racist, a Nazi or an authoritarian. NONE. Yet, Democrat voters believe it. They will grasp any absurd claim to justify their hatred. Because their hatred is what they use to believe that their vote makes them morally superior (see polling data that Democrats give less to charity because they believe their votes satisfy any obligation to be charitable).
Democrat voters are hysterical, hate-filled, hubristic cultists. They don’t care about truth or facts. They don’t care about due process. They don’t care about traditions, or the rule of law, or the Bill of Rights, or any other part of the constitution. They don’t care about fair elections, or even common decency. They are animated by a blood lust to hate and destroy anyone who dares disagree with them. They only care about power.
Regarding the friendliness of Americans vs. others…
I’ve had the good fortune to work in nearly 20 countries*. I found Mexico and the Philippines to be the “friendliest” places I have worked. Strangers smile at one nearly constantly. People are sincerely nice and looking for ways to help and be helpful**.
Europe is a mixed bag. Ireland is the only country where I actually felt welcome; in England I felt constantly looked down upon. Everyone I worked with in England assumed they were smarter than me and I was constantly having to prove my intelligence. Similar experience in China, but they would superficially be nice and obsequious. The Dutch and the Germans are cold to strangers. Canada was a surprise. I’ve worked there several times. In the big cities people are superficially stern (as in most all big cities where I’ve worked, except Mexico City and Manilla), but folks are generally very open and friendly, even in Montreal.
Hard for me to be objective about the U.S. I’ve had a lot of foreigners tell me they were shocked at how open and friendly Americans are. That rings true to me.
*Just one man’s personal experiences. Working and traveling on business is different than being a tourist, which is different than being a resident.
**Obviously both countries also have a lot of crime. A great many people live in abject poverty. I witnessed a shooting in Mexico, in the middle of the day, in a very public area, feet from where I was standing.
Informality is not the same as friendliness which is not the same as being a friend. Sometimes there is confusion.
I first came across the general frightfulness of 1794 Paris in a book by Stanley Loomis titled Paris in the Terror, which was first published in 1964.
I read that book on the plane during my first trip to Paris. I still have it. One of the places I visited on that trip was The Musee Carnavalet On my first visit there I saw the arrest warrant that Robespiere was writing out when he was shot by the other members of the commune whose arrest he was ordering. It had a splotch of his blood on it. The last time I was there, it was not on display. No mention of why.
stan ought to get out a bit more. There are some actual people who are exceptions to his “rules.”
‘Kill them all and let God sort them out,’ has been tried before stan.
Richard Aubrey,
Well stated. I have met foreigners who are very confused by American openness and informality. If Americans met someone once for 30 seconds we don’t hesitate to introduce that person as a “friend” to others. It’s not unusual for Americans to use the term “friend” regarding dozens of people, if not 100 or more. In many other cultures “friend” is a much more specific term. In English we have the word “acquaintance” and the word “colleague,” or “work colleague,” but they are not used as much here as their equivalents in other countries.
In Europe, I imagine even if someone developed a true friendship with a work colleague they would still not use the word “friend” in introductions at the office; it would be “colleague” or “work colleague.” Same with schoolmates. “This is my classmate so and so…” Although I notice a lot of the world growing less formal as so many master the English language.
It’s strange that socialism went from promising abundance for the masses to preaching privation for the many. The new utopia is about living more limited and spartan lives. It’s also strange that writers who complain about “austerity” in budgets and social spending endorse a grim parsimony in people’s private lives, ostensibly for enviromental reasons.
But it’s fear, rather than utopian hopes that’s the great motivator. Fear of climate change. Fear of Ultra MAGA insurrectionists. Fear of White supremacists. Fear of pro-lifers. Fear of benefit cuts. On the other side, fear of crime, illegal immigration, inflation, recession, and economic decline. On both sides fear of a loss of liberty and democracy, defined in different ways.
Christopher Caldwell has a theory that the country and its Constitution radically changed in the 1960s. The civil rights bureaucracy and quota systems combined with mass immigration, feminism, climate concerns, LGBTQ+, HR departments, CRT, DEI to produce a very different country from what was before, and the Bidenites want to keep the new system in place.
I don’t see Trump threatening the planet or the real position of African-Americans, or women, or gays, but he is seen as a threat to the forward movement of the bureaucracy that progressives and liberals have built up by using grievances to extend their power, so in the eyes of the new Establishment he must be destroyed.
Very happy to know others are familiar with Stanley Loomis. His work is wonderful.
And here are those references to revolutionary France again, and rightfully so. This post echos what was happening there in the 1790’s.
Consider the quotes in the Walter Russel Mead piece:
Do ordinary standards of political competition still apply when your opponents’ policies will destroy human civilization? Should they be allowed free speech? Should they be able to organize politically…
These are precisely the kinds of arguments that were used to justify the Terror. Remember, revolutionary France was at war with Austria and Prussia and things were not going well. Their armies were advancing on Paris. Domestic enemies of the revolution weren’t just people to be debated and won over by persuasion, they would gladly assist foreign enemies in occupying Paris and restoring the monarchy. The stakes were just too high to “reason” with such people. They had to be destroyed.
Sound familiar?
communists have always been thus, the bolshevik promise was bread and justice, they got famine and firing squads fidels pitch was to fulfill the constitution of 1940 which sumner welles probably nudged batista into convening free education free healthcare free housing, well you know where that ended up
om,
You mean like my college roommate who was in my wedding and twice ran for Congress as a nominee of the Democrats? He has written op-eds claiming that blacks are unable to get a voter ID and the GOP is racist. He has declared that any father who gets upset when his teenage daughter comes home in tears over having boys in the locker room showers is a bigot! One he would be happy to set straight about his moral failings.
Or the many Democrat voters who were the majority of my friends in college and law school? I know them very well. And I know what they vote for. They aren’t fools. They choose the hatred they support and embrace.
I don’t get distracted by friendliness. I focus on the violent government efforts they support. As all government operates through force. If someone supports throwing political prisoners into jail, they aren’t supporters of the constitution. If someone supports the relentless slander and persecution of Trump, they ARE what they support. If they support the deaths of millions and the wasting of trillions every year on fake global warming regulation, they are the killers they support.
If they support the elimination of civil rights for people who disagree, they are the monsters they support. If they support the people who allow 250,000 children to be enslaved for sex and slave labor in the USA, they are the monsters they support.
The monsters only have power to do monstrous things because their voters approve and keep supporting them.
If I could revise that opening statement,
we live in the crazy years, some people are ignorant of science and believe patent medicine nostrums that will do away with the pillars of our civilization, then there are the rational ones, who under this is what this will do to our civilization, they are silenced stigmatized demonetized, et al
Go to Twitter and see that Kavanaugh is trending. Read the tweets. Those are your standard issue Democrat voters. Nasty, vile, vicious liars and slanderers.
The right is more inclined to think that dreams that we can actually achieve utopia are themselves dangerous.
Well, yes…One description of the difference between left and right is that the left believes heaven is in the future, while the right believes heaven is in the past. Accordingly, the left has a positive view of change: change is good. Thus we can achieve utopia. Just have to keep changing. Each iteration will be that much closer to utopia, to perfection. Just like the line approaching the limit in calculus.
The right, on the other hand, views change as having the potential to worsen things. Such as the Russian Revolution. Beware of sweeping away the past, says the right.
Recall that Hitler said he was going to CHANGE things, and change things he did.Not for the better. I was prompted towards that view of Hitler by the parents of a classmate who were refugees from Austria. They were conservatives, which I initially had problems understanding. It took me a while. Pre-1938 Austria may not have been perfect, but what followed was worse. So much for change being good.
Family friends who moved away to retirement when I was 8 years old (my sister and I still keep in touch with their offspring.) had friends who were refugees from the Russian Revolution. I was too young to know the refugees, but I didn’t forget that they ended up on our shores.
But in later childhood and young adulthood I knew a number of Iron Curtain refugees, whom I lived with, dated, and worked with. They didn’t like the utopias that were forced on them.
By temperament and by experience, I lean towards the right. I experienced enough changes in my childhood that, instead of improving things, changed things for the worse.
stan still needs to get out some more.
Look up “projection” stan or look in a mirror next time you start to write about hate and people hating people.
It seems you fancy that you “know” nearly 75 million people. Astounding, your knowledge stan.
stan can’t conceive that not all democrats are on twitter, or that twitter is not the real world.
Friends like stan and enemies come to mind.
so heaven is the hope of something better than this world, what nietsche spoke, is if people didn’t believe in god, horrors would arise, and the last century is evidence of that belief,
it took a small number of persons to allow fidel to turn my country into a caribbean gulag, mostly the inaction of the majority who believed he would bring free elections and all those things that batista denied the people, a crazy notion,
the bolshevik example is not that surprising, the czar had walked into a grueling meat grinder of a war, that lenin took advantage of, the war created mass shortages of food and material, (any of this sounding familiar)
Yep, 1918 is very similar to 2022/2023. Yep, bread riots any day now in Florida and Texas. Any day now …..
a greater sense of crisis, with the kuomintang vs the communists, it had been more than 20 years since shanghai, during the long privation of the war years, fighting both the communists and the japanese, but still the same old promises,
and the dragon’s maw opened up and 60 million were consumed
we can go to kampuchea, prince sihanouk invited the vietcong to have sanctuary them, then after lon nol objected, he went to china and made common cause with pol pot, then year zero, I don’t need to elaborate,
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Do ordinary standards of political competition still apply when your opponents’ policies will destroy human civilization? Should they be allowed free speech? Should they be able to organize politically even if their electoral victories would destroy life on Earth?
The answer is self-evidently, yes. Otherwise, you are violating their rights.
You don’t need to elaborate because you won’t write in sentences or use punctuation.
“On what principle is it that, when we see nothing but improvement behind us,
we are to expect nothing but deterioration before us?”
– Thomas Babington Macauley
( Critical, Historical and Miscellaneous Essays Volume 1 )
om,
One of the great comforts in my life is knowing that an ass like you disagrees with me. I realize it is always possible that you may someday write something intelligent. I’m rooting for you. Perhaps if you focused less on snark and projecting what an ass you are, you might have more time to formulate a thought worth sharing. But I don’t want to judge too harshly. It may well be that you simply lack the capacity to ever say anything intelligent no matter how hard you try.
I think he was aiming at me, for my ee cummings rules
the war serves many purposes, they missed the sacrifice that was due in the last round of expeditions, so they will impose the privations of sustenance of speech,
or transport, or heat, nothing can be spared for world war trans,
stan:
May God bless you.
miguel cervantes, I confess that I frequently skip over your posts because of the ee cummings rules. They look to me like stream of consciousness, perhaps posted on a phone where punctuation and capitalization are a nuisance. This may be my failing, and not yours, but it does stop me from getting the full import of what you say.
Miguel fancies himself ee cummings, “he don’t need no stinking ….. (grammar or punctuation).” Just lazy?
And stan just is.