Missouri puts some brakes on transitioning, and a furor ensues
I’m so old I can remember when people who felt themselves to be trans didn’t immediately qualify for hormones and surgery – not even adults. There were some common-sense rules to protect the people themselves, and just about everyone understood that, including therapists, doctors, and nurses. Minors were never given medical treatment; just therapy. But even adults had to go through various rather lengthy trial periods of wearing the clothing of the opposite sex and living as that sex, as well as screening to make sure their mental health was otherwise good, before medical transition was started. Then there were years of just taking hormones before surgery was ever performed. Trans people were far more rare back then and predominantly adult biological men.
I don’t know the exact year the situation started to change, but it wasn’t all that long ago. Nowadays it’s pretty much transition on demand, and woe to the therapist or doctor or physician’s assistant who isn’t willing to facilitate the process in a very speedy fashion. Trans activists (a small but very vocal percentage of the trans population) consider any inroad on that approach to be an attack on their very existence.
And that battle is currently being played out in Missouri:
A first-of-its-kind emergency rule introduced this week by Missouri’s Republican Attorney General Andrew Bailey will impose numerous restrictions on both adults and children before they can receive puberty-blocking drugs, hormones or surgeries “for the purpose of transitioning gender.”
Transgender rights advocates have vowed to challenge the rule in court before it takes effect April 27. But promises of swift legal action have done little to ease the worries of trans Missourians like Bridgman who say it may be time to flee the state.
Before gender-affirming medical treatments can be provided by physicians, the regulation requires people to have experienced an “intense pattern” of documented gender dysphoria for three years and to have received at least 15 hourly sessions with a therapist over at least 18 months. Patients also would first have to be screened for autism and “social media addiction,” and any psychiatric symptoms from mental health issues would have to be treated and resolved.
Some individuals will be allowed to maintain their prescriptions while they promptly receive the required assessments.
Seems eminently sensible to me. But people don’t like the clock to be turned back when they’ve grown accustomed to easy access.
The following is telling; the person being interviewed is exactly the sort of person who would not have been treated medically in the big bad olden days of just a decade or so ago:
Bridgman [aged 23], who uses she/they pronouns, is autistic and has depression.
An increasing number of transitioners are autistic, and that is a especially worrisome co-morbidity that should call the person’s trans treatment into question and at least slow things down. But it doesn’t these days.
A 2020 study from natural sciences journal Nature Communications estimated that transgender and gender-diverse people, or those whose gender expressions do not conform to gender norms, are 3-6 times more likely to be autistic compared to cisgender people. They were also more likely to have other developmental and psychiatric conditions, including depression.
“They know a lot of us are autistic, and it’s part of their strategy to paint us as unstable — that we can’t be trusted to make our own medical decisions,” Cay said.
When last I checked, most people don’t make their own medical decisions, not in the sense of diagnosing themselves and demanding a certain remedy. They are evaluated by physicians or other health professionals, and sometimes given choices among several treatment approaches. They also always have the right to refuse medical treatment. But they don’t have the right to demand a certain medical treatment. But the trans community has become accustomed to being able to do exactly that, and to have the medical community be totally compliant with those demands.
More:
At least 13 states have enacted laws restricting or banning gender-affirming care for minors. Bills await action from governors in Montana, North Dakota and neighboring Kansas, and nearly two dozen other states are considering legislation to restrict or ban care.
The Missouri law, however, is the only one that attempts to put limits in place on adults.
This is the sort of rhetoric trans activists are using:
“This is a nuclear bomb on trans people in Missouri. Its effects will be felt for years if it goes into effect,” activist Erin Reed wrote on Twitter.
More than 3 million people viewed Reed’s tweet that reported: “Missouri AG just essentially banned gender-affirming care for most trans adults via emergency rule.”…
In a Tweet, the Human Rights Campaign said, “This isn’t just an overreach of authority—it’s an outright attempt to endanger and ultimately erase transgender people statewide.”
Nuclear bomb. Erase. It’s the language of the killing fields.
While we’re at it, this is the Democratic Party.
https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2023/04/16/ygbkm-washington-to-secretly-remove-children-from-parents-if-they-defy-trans-procedures-n544100
Individuals who falsely believe they are living in the wrong body are simply suffering from gender dysmorphia. It is a mental illness. Nothing more and nothing less. Why do you think the initial foray into this madness of surgical and pharmaceutical alteration was halted at John Hopkins by Jon Meyer? Because Jon Meyer was the only individual at John Hopkins whom correctly understood that gender dysmorphia was a mental illness. Unfortunately, the John Hopkins foray into supporting a mental illness was not halted soon enough, as they already initiated training of other private practice surgeons, psychologists, etc., in the art of supporting individuals’ mental illness of gender dysmorphia for fun and profit, not to mention the degradation of society in general.
There’s a new controversy in Florida about a transgender teacher who was “hurt” by a post on social media and told the guidance counselor at the school where xe taught (as of late March) that xe felt like shooting some of xer students– allegedly because they were “underperforming”: A transgender Florida teacher upset over a hurtful online post was taken to a higher-up’s office for counseling — where she allegedly threatened to shoot some underperforming students.
The Fox Chapel Middle School teacher, who is a transgender woman married to a woman, told the school’s guidance counselor last month she was distressed because she “learned about a social media post where people were talking negatively about her sexual orientation” . . . . In a letter sent to families in the Hernando School District on Thursday, Superintendent John Stratton said an investigation is ongoing, and in the meantime, the teacher has been removed from “all student contact” . . . . A notice from the Florida Department of Education, however, revealed that the teacher had remained working at the school until the agency stepped in on Wednesday, prompting complaints from parents who feel the district has been misleading them about what actually happened. . . . Multiple parents slammed the school for not being transparent about the threat of a possible shooting taking place within their children’s classrooms.
https://nypost.com/2023/04/17/trans-florida-teacher-worked-for-weeks-after-saying-she-wanted-to-shoot-some-students/
Another emotionally unstable tranny who wants to be able to threaten violence without taking any consequences.
I think the explosion of gender confusion is partly caused by the age old rebellion of young people against authority. Camille Paglia sees this element as well as the final stage of cultural collapse.
Transitioning minors is a “crime against humanity” in her view.
Lesson from History: Transgender Mania is Sign of Cultural Collapse – Camille Paglia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ
As John Venlet mentions, back in “the ol’ days” it was recognized that for most of these people it is symptomatic of underlying mental and emotional disorders. Hence the requirement of counseling, waiting time, etc.
This is just another step of the left’s plan to let the insane run wild in society in order to bring about collapse.
What’s sad is this used to be the prudent standard of care for adults, as Neo says, for the protection of the adults. The cross-sex hormones and surgical procedures are powerful medical events with serious and permanent consequences and side effects, not to be indulged in on a whim or a short-term inclination.
Regarding autism and the individual featured in neo’s post:
I have no knowledge of that individual’s life, or medical issues beyond reading a sentence or two here, so this is not about that individual, but most of you are likely aware that the diagnosis of autism greatly expanded around the 2000’s. It is a “spectrum” disorder and people are diagnosed on a scale and said to be “on the spectrum” if they meet certain characteristics.
Autism is a real disorder and there are far too many extremely unfortunate cases where sufferers struggle to meet their most basic needs; including eating.
However, since diagnoses fall on a spectrum there are also many with a diagnosis of autism whom seem very able, capable and well. And, because of the spectrum nature of symptoms and impact, two doctors may even disagree regarding the same patient. This also means everyone could probably obtain a diagnosis of autism through doctor shopping and knowing how to respond to certain questions.
Why do I write what I wrote in the above paragraph? To highlight the nebulous nature of the diagnosis. There are certainly children who are on the spectrum who never receive a diagnosis just as there are certainly children who are probably fine, but have a parent or parents who are concerned, or feel the child isn’t doing certain things adequately enough (reading, talking, playing) or feel the child is not behaving well enough, so they seek medical help and the child is diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. For marginal (and non-existent) cases a parent’s attitude can impact whether a child is labeled as autistic.
I have read and heard medical professionals define why it may be likely that many autistic young girls and, to a lesser degree boys, may be more vulnerable to the concept of gender dysmorphia, and their logic seems sound. However, I think we have to be cautious with correlation and causation when it comes to associations with autism since there has been such an exponential increase in children diagnosed as autistic in recent decades.
Rufus T. Firefly:
Quite a bit of the increase is the fact that what used to be labeled Asperger’s is now called autism. Most of the trans people with autism actually have Asperger’s. And yes, it can be overdiagnosed.
neo,
What I mean is this: https://safeminds.org/research/autism-prevalence-still-rising-per-cdc/ *
U.S. rate in 1970, 1 in 10,000. U.S. rate today, 1 in 54! Also, the internet says Asperger’s was not a formal diagnosis until 1994.
Just as with ADHD over the decades, “being on the spectrum” has increased exponentially. I think a lot of this has to do with the abysmal way we teach children, especially boys. I also think some not insignificant percentage of this is helicopter parents looking for an excuse and medication to get their child to meet the parents’ idealized performance standards. Or, like with gender dysphoria, it being popular among parents, especially moms. When all the other moms on the playground are discussing their childrens’ diagnoses, treatments and medications some folks begin to feel they are no longer in with the in crowd.
*I did a quick, cursory look for a graph. I don’t know about the source for this one, or if there is an agenda behind it, but most all the graphs I found showed nearly identical data. However, there are a lot of websites using the graph to link childhood vaccine type and frequency to autism, so I didn’t want to link a site making that case to muddy the water here. Again, correlation is not causation. I believe, by today’s standards, 1 in 54 U.S. kids would have also been diagnosed as on the spectrum in the ’70s. In other words, I don’t think kids have changed I think our terminology has.
I know that this won’t be a popular opinion here among the bleeding heart conservatives, but I’m old enough to remember when we had freedom of speech.
I think that the surgeries and hormone injections that people need for changing their sex appearance are a new kind of woke suicide. I’ve always thought that suicide should be legal, and my primary objection to sex change is that it’s too expensive. Suicide should be cheap.
If people want to kill themselves, and they want other insurance payers or taxpayers to cover their death costs, then financial efficiency should be part of the deal.
What I see in these calls to have “gender affirming” treatment on demand, whether for adults or children is the same eugenics and sterilization policies used against gays and queers 100 years ago. Today, if a child makes the suggestion that they might be transexual, an adult can take that child from their parents, transport them to Washington or California. Those states will then protect that adult and provide sterilization of that child.
They can attempt to sell it as whatever, but the end result is sterilized individuals that simply suggest being transexual without any discussion or debate allowed for the long-term consequences to those individuals.
but they are being programmed into this suicide, you don’t come to these deranged conclusions otherwise, these evil dementors are creating these
people who are possibly terminally damaged because it’s another way to take down this country,
“Bleeding heart conservatives?”
Leland, I have seen commentary to the effect that these sex change procedures amount to gay/lesbian “conversion therapy” with drugs and scalpels.
My Wife taught HS for 10 yrs and JH for another 20. If she had given an aspirin to a student she could have been fired and even sued by the parents. My how times have changed.
What were Humptey Dumptey’s pronouns?
Once off the wall, never reassembled.
Rufus T. Firefly:
I’ve already written a lengthy post about the seeming epidemic of autism. Please see this.
It beggars belief that there should be any controversy at all in establishing a total prohibition of sex change therapy for those under the age of 18.
If someone older than 18 decides to transition, fine, it’s their decision, their body and their life.
I do not understand why the medical community – and they should know better – is all in on sex change therapy for anyone, irrespective of the age or mental state of the victim.
How can a surgeon remove the breasts of a 15 year old girl or the sex organs of a 15 year old boy, and not think he/she is totally engaging in a horrific and irreversible act?
Do these medical “professionals” not have souls; any sense of humanity?
This entire sex-transition-hysteria is akin to the Salem witch hunts or to the Day Care sex abuse hysteria of the l980s and 90s.
You will recall that in the day care abuse hysteria, child psychologist “experts” supported the contention of 4 and 5 year old children who invented fantastical events – events that would have inflicted massive medically serious harm on the children – despite their being zero medical evidence of any harm.
From a broader viewpoint, this entire sex transition plague shows, yet again, how a very very very small minority of the people can impose their worldview upon the majority.
neo,
I just read the post (well, the part II you linked to) and I agree.
neo, “I come down fairly strongly at this point on the side of thinking the epidemic is almost entirely an artifact of statistics and diagnostic changes.”
If that wasn’t clear in my two comments I apologize for the lack of clarity.
When I transitioned, I had a lot of hoops to jump through (and Im glad I did). It’s depressing that we’ve come to this state where anyone can easily get on hormones without the process I went through…
This Trannie pushing is all a mental illness. They ( Marxists/Leftists) keep going to younger and younger children. To me it’s to separate kids from parents. Proof is states starting to allow sex change without parents being notified.
John Tyler:
You write, “If someone older than 18 decides to transition, fine, it’s their decision, their body and their life.”
What do you mean by “transition”? If you mean dress as the other sex and live as the other sex, that’s one thing. But what about medical treatment such as so-called “bottom surgery,” when someone has mental problems? And the gender dysphoria is of recent origin? Is it okay for a doctor to do bottom surgery on someone like that, without waiting or recommending other therapy? What if the person is convinced that if a perfectly healthy limb is amputated, that will fix their dysphoria (there are people who believe that, by the way, and want doctors to amputate)?
How much regulation of the medical profession should there be? Should there be no regulation? Where should the line be drawn, and by whom? What should be the standard of care, and what is malpractice?
The reason the Johns Hopkins clinic was closed in 1979 was the number of post-op patients who returned seeking to be “transitioned” back to their original gender.
Paul McHugh, who closed the clinic for that reason is slandered by Wiki in this article.
It is almost impossible to find an unbiased source on this topic anymore. The fact is that suicides rates are identical between those “transgendered” and the non-operation group.
I have a nephew who is autistic. From eighteen to twenty-seven he was a mess. He was depressed. He was suicidal. He toyed with the idea that he was the wrong sex. He couldn’t live independently even though his parents got him all kinds of training and help.
His parents were giving up hope Fortunately, they are well off and could afford the expense of treatment. He saw several highly recommended therapists who seemed unable to make a difference. The situation was very sad and seemed like it would drag on forever. Then he was taken into therapy by a therapist who worked some kind of magic. After a year of therapy, he now lives on his own, has a job, and has developed some basic social skills that he seemed to lack before.
I saw him a year ago and was amazed by how much progress he had made. The moral of my story is that sometimes it takes many tries to find a therapist that clicks with the patient. Why? It seems to be human nature. Different strokes for different folks.
I try to imagine what it might be like to believe that I am a woman trapped in a man’s body. It would be very disorienting and sad. These people do need HELP. And not necessarily transitioning as a first choice.
I’m willing to give them their due that they need tom be recognized and need help, but I’m not willing to treat them as celebrities’ who are better or more important than straight people.
yes any medical or physical alteration, cannot be countenanced, if one is delusional in behavior it’s something else entirely,
I believe that the explosion of transgenders in schools is a result of the exact same phenomena as the boom in anorexia and bulimia some years back – in the same type of population – socially insecure adolescents.
It is fomented by their mothers and by school counselors (who are overwhelming women).
It is not a surprise to me that “autistic” kids are the majority of cases since social awkwardness is a prime symptom of “autism”.
I worked as a teacher’s aide with autistic students for 15 years. They can easily be convinced that they have any sort of random disease, syndrome, or other medical condition just by watching ads on television. I had students tell me they were sure they had mesothelioma, heartbreak of psoriasis, post polio syndrome, breast implant syndrome and other things that were not possible, just because they saw ads on television and they are very suggestible. Add in school counselors telling the folks that it’s better to have a live daughter than a dead son and pretty soon you have an epidemic on your hands. Especially if mom gets kudos from everyone online for having a kid with a trendy syndrome that she can be all supportive about as opposed to a kid that gets everyone kicked out of the museum field trip because they had a screaming meltdown over the wrong sack lunch being ordered for them from the cafeteria.
Now that kids are online 24/7 and “autistic” kids have quite addictive personalities, they simply MUST follow the latest trends and are easy prey for the abusive.
It’s no coincidence that these kids have also been the majority of sexual assault victims throughout time.
Easy prey.
And also very, very prone to violence if thwarted.
I think we’re seeing that.
Just Lily:
There are a few mothers who encourage it but the majority do not, and in fact at the outset ordinarily don’t even know it’s happening. Usually it is peers and participation in social media that influences these kids, primarily. The parents are coerced into cooperation when supposed authorities tell them their child will commit suicide if not allowed to transition. Social media coaches the kids to say they are suicidal even if they’re not.
The population involved does seem to be much like the anorexia and/or cutting populations of yesteryear. There are vogues in these things and teenage girls are most susceptible.
But even adults had to go through various rather lengthy trial periods of wearing the clothing of the opposite sex and living as that sex, as well as screening to make sure their mental health was otherwise good, before medical transition was started.
I believe the film “Dressed to Kill” (1980) has a brief scene in the 2nd half where the psychiatrist discusses his refusal to authorize transgender surgery for a patient of his.
I do like films for the time capsule nature of them. Even if scripts are stilted and contrived in various ways, if the filmmakers are keen on connecting with the audience, there is usually a familiar background for the odd-ball elements.
A furor? Let them vent. Just keep saying ‘no.’
Re: “Dressed to Kill”
TommyJay:
I’m a big Michael Caine fan and to a lesser extent, director Brian De Palma. I watched “Dressed to Kill” a few months ago and was amazed how bad a film it was. Plotting, characterization, everything just clunky.
But it does make a good time capsule.
Neo,
I think there are more mothers who are encouraging it than not. The vocal ones who are against it are the ones that you see clips of and hear the most about but most are going along with the program because they are just as suggestible as their kids by and large. It may be that they are as big a victims as their kids. And part of it is the destruction of the two parent family. One parent at least might serve as a brake on the worst excesses of the other when there are two working in partnership.
That being said I really feel the vast majority of the blame for this belongs to the mental health “professionals” who have created this monster by changing the definition of mental illness and cooperating with pedophiles and other sexual deviants to normalize predatory behaviors.
I can count on one finger the number of mental health professionals I have known that I would trust alone with a confused adolescent.
Didn’t being homosexual used to be considered a mental disorder… until the definition got changed by a homosexual.
Anyway, the proverbial genie is out of the closet. Next ~
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/man-takes-dog-to-vet-for-gender-transition-in-viral-video-highlights-insanity-of-child-sex-reassignment/
I’m still waiting for somebody to tell me the physical basis for gender.
Instapundit seems to think large numbers of negligence lawsuits brought by people who realize their lives have been ruined will eventually stop this. However he is troubled by the sheer number of these young people who will have been horribly misled and whose bodies are forever mutilated not to mention the mental anguish for a lifetime. I kinda agree.
Neo
I posted a comment and it is not visible to me. In moderation?
huxley,
De Palma is a great director but probably not a great screenwriter. A film like The Untouchables was all those great elements you mention, but was written by David Mamet. De Palma has always had trouble writing good endings.
A friend of mine loves films, but the things he cares about are great dialog combined with great acting, and an OK plot. De Palma cares about the visual details and the music score too, which my friend has zero interest in.
The thing I love about the film, which I’ve mentioned here before, is the dialog-free visual storytelling in it. I used to think that was contained entirely in the museum scene, but is actually the entire second act of the film. It extends from the beginning of the museum scene to the end of the mid-film climax. Though I think the cab driver has one line in it. The score is good too.
Rich Cook–
The same thing happened to me on this thread about 10 p.m.
PA+Cat
Ok so I’m not the only one. Hopefully she’ll see this and cause tech support to swing into action.
They also need to screen for porn addictions and autogynephilia in men wanting to become women*, and they need to screen for depression and a history of sexual abuse in the women wanting to become men.
*AGP is essentially what all these men who claim to be “lesbians” have. The ones that used to be married before they transitioned? Take a look at their wives. When the men decide to become women, they almost always look like their wives. It’s creepy. Google Rachel Levine’s wife for an example of this.
huxley,
I’m sure a great many people hate Tarantino and De Palma, but this longer video interview of Tarantino talking about De Palma is interesting. In particular, the segment from 19:10 – 19:45 and the one from 26:00 – 26:45.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsAZSBfuFb4
Quick summary:
1) De Palma doesn’t like movies with a couple or few characters talking to each other.
2) “You [Tarantino] and I [De Palma] are interested in a kind of visual language and storytelling that nobody understands.”
}}} trans Missourians like Bridgman who say it may be time to flee the state.
Yeah, sure. Like all those Hollywood celebs who swore they would leave the country if Trump (or Bush!) won? I’m only aware of like two who MIGHT have done anything like that, out of literally hundreds who made the declaration.
I’ve long objected to the (mis)appropriation of the previously useful word “gay” to be a euphemism for “homosexual.”
Similarly with the ridiculous word “cisgender” being foisted upon us to dissuade us from using “normal.” I have to think there’s a propaganda agenda underlying that effort.
I’m glad to see that “cisgender” appears here only once, in what Neo quoted from someone else’s article.
In accordance with the aims and goals, ambitions and plans of the Democratic Party, the “humaneness” and “human right” of transitioning gender AT ANY AGE, IN ANY circumstance, FOR ANY feeling or ON ANY whim is to the country’s social fabric and family cohesion as “Biden”‘s “transitory inflation” is to the country’s economy and financial health; as BLM and CRT are to “racial harmony” and “social justice”.
The “Great Reset” is simply the “Great Transformation”.
(IOW, the “GREAT OBLITERATION”…or if you will, the “GREAT CULLING”.)
Barry Meislin–
You might be interested to know that the Bud Light controversy has transformed Ron and Casey DeSantis into drinkers of Guinness Draught:
https://nypost.com/2023/04/18/desantis-says-anheuser-busch-is-too-woke-has-lost-him-as-a-customer-why-would-you-want-to-drink-bud-light/
In other words, massive gatekeeping. Which has no effect except to drive transgender people into the search for black market hormones, non-licensed surgeons, and suicide.
This has been shown time and again in places where such gatekeeping is in place.
For example here in the Netherlands, where the gatekeeping is even worse (before you get HRT here you’re looking at 4-5 YEARS of waiting lists and psychiatric evaluation, and another 4-5 YEARS before you can get surgery) an estimated 20% of people suicide on the waiting lists, and of the rest 95% resort to black market medication and often seek surgical procedures abroad.
I’m all for being very careful with prescribing any life changing medical procedures, but gatekeeping for the sake of gatekeeping (which this is) is worse than counterproductive.
Might as well admit that you want all transgender people to die and go back to the days where you locked all of us up in insane asylums and submitted us to daily torture by means of electroshock “treatment”, hot and cold baths, starvation, etc. etc. which was the standard treatment for “mentally deficient” and other “undesirable” people who weren’t in prison until not too long ago.
“Nuclear bomb. Erase. It’s the language of the killing fields.”
That is exactly what it amounts to, and you know it. Because that’s the intent, to make it once again illegal, on penalty of imprisonment for life in a mental institution or prison, to be transgender or provide healthcare to transgender people.
If that’s what it takes to get them to flee the state, double it. Maybe they’ll flee to Canada, thereby improving both countries.
Psychology is junk thought: electroshock, transgender “treatment,” crackpot chemical therapies. If only Freud had been silenced at his nose surgery cures. Psychologists are depraved mutilators and torturers.
Follow the money.
I haven’t ‘read’ the bill, so I don’t know if this is accurate or not, but I have read Obamacare required insurance to cover transitioning. That would explain the medical profession’s support.
JTW,
That is what is known as ‘catastrophic thinking’.
@JTW
I’m getting a bit sick and tired of dealing with your bullshit. AND YES, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
It’s bad enough that you decided to be abusive to other people on this blog before, when you alleged that conservatives and “the right” wanted you dead just for being transgender, but apparently now you’re getting into psychological abuse such as gaslighting.
For whatever reason, many have decided not to call you out on this. Well, i’ve always been something of an old battle axe.
CORRECT.
As SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE THE CASE in ANY therapy or surgery, or collection thereof, that has such massive ramifications to human body and life as these. There’s a reason why responsible practitioners are supposed to engage in extensive pre-op meetings and evaluations of people (PREFERABLY OF AGE, OR WITH THEIR GUARDIANS) in order to ensure informed consent and sus out any problems. I had to engage in something like half a dozen major ones and some minor ones before I had my Beriatric Sleeve Surgery.
And that “merely” involved cutting away a decent portion of my stomach for weight-loss purposes. It had very little impact on my sense of identity, or my gender, or so on, and I was already grown at the time.
The fact that you think “massive gatekeeping” is a BAD THING when it comes to hugely transformative surgeries (which again is supposed to be why the surgeries are so important) speaks to your bias as well as misaligned views.
You know how I accused you of gaslighting? Yeah, this is it.
Because that is exactly what claiming “has no effect” is. Which is manifestly untrue, as the whole host of people who went through a period of gender dysphoria or gender confusion but went past it or who did undergo transition surgery but found it to be a catastrophic mistake attest. Nor is this in serious dispute outside of blind ideologues (of which you clearly out yourself as one), including in scholarly and medical literature that is already heavily inclined to downplay the importance and prevalence of these things.
What’s even LESS in dispute is that the human mind and biological machinery develops throughout life, and that PARTICULARLY prior to the mid teens if not twenties it is still developing and is quite immature, susceptible to influence, and prone to do stupid $hit. Which is why even back in Ye Olden Times you’d be hard pressed to find any culture that recognized people as “adults” before they were 14, let alone 12. This also is deeply woven into our cultures and basic legal theory. It’s the entire reason why Statutory Rape is a thing and why many children and young adults cannot legally consent.
But we’re all supposed to believe that in spite of thousands of years of erring on the side of caution in turns of this stuff (and usually erring MORE AND MORE on the side of caution as science develops and we figure out more about how we function and age) we’re all supposed to ignore it for THIS purpose?
Oh and because I’ve read a few of your posts around here and have a decent idea of what you’re likely to pull in response to this, don’t even try. Because believe it or not (and to be honest you REALLY don’t have much grounds to doubt after getting caught engaging in psychological abuse of your fellow bloggers) I do indeed have Trans friends. Most in fact disagree with these steps from Missouri etc. al., though some agree. And they have very divided views on the nature of their condition and how to proceed, especially given the extremely limited nature of our scientific knowledge on matters like making a “clean” or “seamless” transition from one biological sex to another with any kind of serious sexual function.
However, every single one I’ve asked – which is all but one or two -, even those that oppose steps like Missouri’s agree that Transexuality is HUGELY FUCKING OVERDIAGNOSED and that the gigantic number of “false positives” is screwing with Trans health care.
So I’m going to level with you. People who are either grappling with their own identity or have in fact crystalized it but have to live with being the wrong sex/gender as a rule have my sympathy. Especially now given the inability of science to give what people deserve in the form of an ideal human body, a true transition, and the often horribly dysfunctional and sub-par stopgaps that are in place of that (and that’s IF the practitioners are reasonably competent and ethical, which they often absolutely Are Not). And that’s BEFORE we factor in a world and people that actively Hate them, up to and including murder.
But that doesn’t justify throwing out the maxims of basic prudence and acknowledging that many people aren’t in a position to make these kinds of decisions until they GROW OLDER out of the window.
And indeed, your IMMEDIATE resort to provably false gaslighting says NOTHING GOOD about your competence or judgement on the matter.
No, it has not been. Which is why I mention.
Which sounds like a problem of A: Supply, and B: Efficiency. Especially in terms of psychiatric evaluation and counseling.
Which brings me to the other point: pleading suicide from inability to wait for 4-5 years (because apparently the famously inclusive Netherlands demanding people wait while trying to go through one of the most rigorously scientific medical screenings there is) is not the decisive or favorable argument you seem to think it is. Indeed, to those of us looking from the outside in it indicates something far beyond problems with the condition or procedures itself, because when you have rates of suicide that are apparently an order of magnitude above TERMINAL CANCER PATIENTS, that indicates there’s a bigger problem and the screening’s length isn’t it (though the apparent inefficiencies in the screening and actually counseling is another matter).
No, you very obviously aren’t “all for being very careful with prescribing any life changing medical procedures”, as shown by your immediate jump to catastrophist prognostications and demonization. So please stop lying.
As for “gatekeeping for the sake of gatekeeping” these proposals involved less checkup than I did before the Beriatric Sleeve, which again was a MUCH less transformative and invasive battery of measures, and also when I was older.
This is especially notable because contra your Netherlands example, one thing the US and its medical institutions actually do a DECENT JOB OF is having raw personnel and capacity in order to get through lots of patients quickly (which is why as a nurse’s son regularly point to hospital beds as one of the US’s defining advantages in the field). Which also translates into shorter wait times.
Something you “conveniently” ignored while bringing up the Netherlands. Because it’s a hell of a lot easier to bang the catastrophist gong and say people might as well die over a 4-5 wait list largely brought about by crunched features than it is to do so over a year and a half wait because of screening.
Indeed, steps like this would do a decent job taking transition surgery out of the Wild West it currently is with a whole host of incongruities in treatment, unethical hucksters, and poor standards.
(And yes, I am speaking with some degree of authority and knowledge about this subject in spite of being the Great Satan that is a grown “Cishet” White Man. Because while lived experiences may be one thing, knowledge about the state of a field is not gated behind a specific identity or orientation. And because while I am far from an expert, I am far more knowledgeable about this subject than even most transpeople are, especially when you factor in non-clincals or (god forbid) the informally diagnosed.
Which is also why I can tell when you are blatantly bullshitting and gaslighting about certain aspects.)
Firstly: I upon your advice I told all of this to one of my friends, who among other things as a Turkish Christian Transswoman is simultaneously high on the Diversity Bingo and in one of the most precarious of situations for people to live. She was confused, until I showed this. At which point she and I laughed at what self-pitying, psychologically abusive bullshit you are engaged in.
That’s just about the only good thing to come out of your posts on this blog that I have seen, but I have to say thanks for that.
Secondly: Get over your Persecution Complex. Which this is Very obviously what is at play. Because very few people on this blog or in Missouri actually want “all transgender people to die or be locked up”, as is shown every single time you bring up.
So apparently the amount of murderous bigots on this blog isn’t sufficient to meet your quota, so you have to outright try and INVENT it by painting all of us as such monsters.
Apparently it never once crossed what passed for your brain to consider that some of us might have encountered this sort of gaslighting, egotism, and persecution complex before and know how to address it. Well sorry JTW, but you are Just Too Whiny to take in stride.
Thirdly: as someone who is Aspergers, and who has a sizable family history of psychiatric abuse, how fucking Dare you try to argue that attempts to implement a normal, non-extreme clinical and diagnostic wait are akin to going back to the Bad Old Days of Bedlamm.
And you wonder why I view you as dishonest, abusive, egotistical, manipulative, and gas lighting?
Well, that’s why.
I can’t independently or empirically tell if Momma raised a Fool, but I can just tell that she raised someone that isn’t going to fall for this particularly brand of paper thin abuse and crybullying. You’re not the first person to try and pull the old gaslight, and you certainly won’t be the last.
It’s ironic considering how Neo was pointing this out as part of the pattern of immense psychological abuse, demonization, and dehumanization by left wing propaganda about those of us on the Right. Which – surprise surprise – is ALSO well acknowledged as an important stage in preparing the grounds for mass violence.
But apparently “it’s ok when you do it.”
That’s literally what you are reduced to, JTW. Special Pleading. One of the most insincere and contemptible of all logical fallacies. “It’s Justified when We Do It.”
And frankly, I’ve come to believe that the deranged fantasies and demonization you engage in towards us are projections of what you want to do to us. You are the one that want conservatives or anybody who dares to bother raise the kind of necessary questions that are a part of treatment (even transitioning) to be dead, or imprisoned, or subjected to Lysenkoian abuse. Because apparently your well of empathy is that goddamn shallow.
And apparently you feel so entitled to dictate terms not just yourself but also to society at large and children just maturing that you equate a fairly normal 18 month sounding out period as Literal Genocide.
If this is truly how you are going to treat the rest of us, then you deserve neither sympathy nor attention.
Not because you’re Trans.
Because you’re an abusive, dishonest asshole.
And I for one have no reason to take your scapegoating, gaslighting, and other nonsense lying down.
I can only imagine what Neo makes of your antics, let alone those of our fellows on this blog. But be glad I am not in any position of authority on this blog, because were it up to me I’d be seriously considering the ban button right now.
And yet for someone who supposedly wants to see all Trans people exterminated or made illegal, Neo has let you post your abusive, often objectively false drivel up here for the world to read.
Rather unusual behavior for someone who supposedly demonizes Transpeople (unless you admit that your particular brand of abusive, full screech lying is so caustic and incompetent it would make good propaganda for those trying to do a “Trans Genocide”). But the irony is very obviously lost on you.
It and many, many, many other things.
Try and get some basic human decency, for your sake.
Turtler,
Now, stop being so reticent and give us your thoughts.
@Ray
I thank you but I have to hold back. If I did, my post would be twice as long and involve far more creative cursing, trolling, and a host of other things.
Turtler has no thoughts, it just apes its controllers.
It’s never had to live with being hated simply for what it is, by people who have no clue what it is that it is, people like itself.
we have let the insane run the asylum, and tell us how to address them, delusions like this were not previously indulged nor actually promulgated by societies, we are in a world even huxley would think mad, more like wells dr moreau, people like this, should be treated well, but not catered to,
the Netherlands has become a pitiful sort, pim fortuyn offered some hope, remember him, but since his assassination, and the van gogh incident the shunning of hirsi ali, it had gone totally mad, well they are driving their farmers underground,
@JTW
This is what we in the field call “digging deeper.”
Ok lying dipshit. Prove it.
Who are “my controllers”?
And while you’re at it, please tell me how they control me.
Also: be glad this is meaningless, dishonest chaff of yours.
Because otherwise, you would be admitting that someone/something that had “no thoughts” was still more than capable of calling you out for your logical fallacies, projection, gaslighting, lying about research, and other idiocy.
And if something with no thoughts can do that, what does that say about you? Didn’t think that far before making that insult, did you?
But I’m supposedly the one with “no thoughts. The person who regularly writes multi paragraph rambles about history, literature, culture, geopolitics, and video gaming.
Uh-huh. Riiight.
Your bullshit is showing.
Bitch please.
Firstly: Your ability to write this with any degree of sincerity flew out the window the day you started demonizing everybody on this blog as wanting you dead purely because we were “on the right.”
Ergo you destroyed your own claim.
Secondly: I’m a Protestant Conservative Christian that grew up in California during the height of the BusHitler fervor.
I also grew up as Aspergers in a school system that utterly hated me and my family for merely existing and actively tried to have me committed.
You can argue that’s not as serious a hatred as being Trans, and I might be willing to concede that point, but it certainly is being hatred just for what one was.
Now please little fool, your deflections merely underline you have no actual ability to respond to what I said, let alone refute or debunk it.
And because I’ve dealt with abusive, hate-filled, gaslighting assholes like yourself before and thus I have to presence of mind to highlight that deflecting in lieu of any kind of response is exactly what this pile of crap from you is, anybody who bothers to read will know that you can’t actually refute what I wrote.
You can’t actually justify the vile hatred you heaped, not just on me but on everybody on this blog.
So for your sake, you should shut the fuck up before you prove my words even more correct and give me more ammunition to fisk you and reveal even more of your yawning lack of character and integrity.
But judging by your systematic illogic, poor judgement, and lack of awareness I’d be surprised if that is what you actually do.
PS: you act as if being hated merely for what you are is any kind of justification or excuse for your disgusting, immoral, hate-filled screeds on this blog towards people who have done you no wrong.
IT IS NOT.
Indeed, it shows you are far more like the caricature you paint of me than I am.
But again, you apparently think “It’s Ok when I do it.”
God. Damn. Pitiful.
Also: You may or may not have a choice to be the gender you are, but you absolutely have a choice to be a dishonest, egotistical liar who likes dabbling in special pleading and eliminationilist demonization.
you see why the manifesto has not been released now don’t you, because it is probably chock full of trigger words, like this chuckwagon,
so the localities most intent on furthering this madness, are the ones letting looting happen, that would make attila blanche, san francisco, gotham chicago, we can’t say we are trying to catch up to Europe, they are emerging from the rabbit hole,
@JTW
Should have put this in the previous comment, but the edit lock slapped in.
But it’s amusing you demonize me, but pointedly ignore the fact that I showed this around to some of my friends and they uniformly had similar reactions. Even if I am this hateful, thoughtless automaton (that more closely resembles you than it does me, but leaving that aside), what does that say about the others?
It amuses me how you try to wave the bloody toga of victimhood and how you are so persecuted and hated, but are so quick to demonize, other, and nonperson those that disagree with you, even if they are also Trans.
PS: I’m the one who brought up basic clinical concepts like psychological screening and talked about them more in detail. You did not. I am the one who talked about things such as basic physical and mental development as the body ages. You did not. And at the moment I am half-inclined to shove quite a few sources up your ass to underline that even if your idiotic smear against me was in any way true, it wouldn’t address the points or be able to demonize literally everyone who disagrees with your lies and fallacious claims regarding waiting periods.
Keep fucking around and you will find out what I do when I take a particular interest in dumpstering someone and their claims.
The Democrat party is organized mental illness exploited by evil criminals to abuse the insane for the purpose of gaining dictatorial power. Only a fool would assume they operate in good faith.
Lefties have always had the goal of tearing the country down in order to impose their dictatorship. They are winning bigly.
JTW – assuming you’re a trans-identified male (I prefer using words rooted in biological reality, instead of the Orwellian “transwoman”), just stay out of Women’s bathrooms and Women’s sports and keep your ideology out of schools. No one minded y’all until that stuff happened.
@NS
JTW’s done nothing to earn my sympathy or trust, but even I can’t agree with that. Even if it wasn’t common on Main Street USA any time this century (and even then it could get quite uncomfortable and even murderous) there are still plenty of places where trans people (or at least those identifying as such) get murdered or (involuntarily) mutilated regularly. In particular the “curves” of Africa (the West and East Coasts) seem to be particularly bad.
And back in the day they were at least as bad. One of the charges that got Jeanne of Arc burnt at the stake as (frivolous) claims that she unnecessarily wore a man’s clothing (she wasn’t Trans and nobody claimed she was, but they could and did argue cross-dressing was such) Which gives you some idea on how hard core and far-reaching this could be.
I have no love for JTW, but my concern for the truth means I have to be honest. Trans people do have a lot of people mind what they are and not infrequently to a lethal degree (whether that’s due to systematic hatred or things like hiring a prostitute and getting enraged at “false advertising”).
maybe but there should be some evidence, there is practically none for this delusion to be much of anything but dysphoria, which culture is more amenable to this predeliction, China or Russia or West Africa, or the Middle East, they are decidedly binary, to be charitable,
on the non binary front, the pulse shooting is often brought up as evidence, of course they hide the major details, in ways that are extraordinary, he was an islamist, encouraged by his father the imam, of a mosque that had produced at least one other shaheed, in the terminology, trained by one of the blind sheikhs body, but all those details are inconvenient so its all about ‘hate’, of course not addressing of the particulars,
its like the hippocratic oath is being turned upside down and inside out, when in doubt kill children in the womb, mutilate them before they reach age of consent, twist their minds in the interim, make them hate their families, their bodies their neighbors, their country (some of this outside of the scope of hippocrates)
Ever since the transition community hit upon the idea of equating roadblocks to transition with gay conversion therapy, they have been able to put the accelerator to the floor. If gay conversion therapy is wrong, they say, then any barriers to easy trans interventions are equally as wrong.
How did it all come to this? What a foolish, feckless civilization is ours.
the Short answer is Romans 1, all [procedeth from there) ignore the truth, as stated in Ephesians,
@PA+Cat:You might be interested to know that the Bud Light controversy has transformed Ron and Casey DeSantis into drinkers of Guinness Draught:
That’s not really what the articles said–it said they prefer Guinness not that they switched to it over Bud Light–but if they had done so they are either cynical or dumb as a bag of hammers. He’s taking his money out of the woke and spending it with the twice as woke.
The Right falls for this crap every time. That’s why I say national politics is theater.
Guinness is owned by Diageo, which has this to say for itself: (Follow the link to see how eagerly they jump through every LGBTQ hoop.)
Diageo North America is delighted to announce that it has again received a perfect score of 100 percent on the 2021 Corporate Equality Index (CEI), a national benchmarking survey and report on corporate policies and practices related to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) workplace equality, administered by the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) Foundation.
https://notthebee.com/article/read-through-this-thread-for-the-most-epic-troll-of-trans-affirmation-teachers-ive-ever-seen
to be fair,
https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/guinness-udv-north-america/C00034470/candidate-recipients/2000
@miguel: Not impressed by donations to the Uniparty. That’s what rent-seekers do.
Big corporations are not your friends. They love working in partnership with government, because they can limit competition, seek rent, and capture the regulators. Government loves working in partnership with corporations because it’s easy to control them: just email your directives to their compliance departments and they’ll swing into action, and they can afford to pay lots of taxes. Not like small businesses and individuals.
With all the horrible face surgeries weve seen it amazes me that people think, yes, let them try it on my genitals.
Thats the ticket.
and guinness has a checkered past going back to when they prosecuted under the 80s, budweiser, just facepalmed right into the cliffside like wile e coyote, chasing that esg score
I agree with “Bonchie” at Red State, and with DeSantis’s comments about the beer boycott. The Bud Light one is a case where a conservative boycott can have an impact, and might make other corporations think twice before pulling this kind of stunt. Perhaps women can have an effect on the Nike line of female sports attire, although Nike is less strongly identified with conservatives.
JTW’s gaslighting on “transgender genocide” reminds me somewhat of Biden’s offensive comments about how many conservative white Americans are just itching to lynch black people.
However, people like JTW in a country which permits euthanasia and residents of our Left Coast states might want to look twice and three times at their areas’ endorsement of euthanasia. No one RIGHT NOW is talking about killing off transsexuals. But what if public sentiment on the issue changes? All people should be concerned about respect for human life in all cases.
Well, that ended up being a wide ranging discussion, complete with bickering, name calling, a bit of film making talk, and all instigated by a new mainstream mental illness in which deranged individuals are encouraged to chop off their breast and penises. Lovely.
Trans/homosexuals? Boys and girls should wait to transition until they are past the age of confusion.
Well, JTW had the opportunity to step up to the plate and explain the physical basis of gender but instead decided to play the victim and tell us how every day is the holocaust. I still think gender is imaginary.
Kate:
The Canadians and Dutch wouldn’t bat an eye or bother to suggest mental health intervention to a suicidal gender dysmorphic it seems. Just sign up for the off ramp and wait your turn, because all health care (death uncaring) involves waiting on the bureaucracy ….
yes they seem to moving back down the rabbit hole, although in Canada they are likely to drill another hole,