↓
 
Home » The Ohio train derailment

The Ohio train derailment

The New Neo Posted on by

What on earth is going on here? A February 3 train derailment in an Ohio town has spewed a bunch of dangerous chemicals into the air:

Hazardous material expert Sil Caggiano told WXBN, “We basically nuked a town with chemicals so we could get a railroad open.”

Caggiano also provided details about the chemicals:

“Caggiano says ethylhexyl acrylate is especially worrisome. He says it’s a carcinogen and contact with it can cause burning and irritation in the skin and eyes. Breathing it in can irritate the nose and throat and cause coughing and shortness of breath.

Isobutylene is also known to cause dizziness and drowsiness when inhaled.”

As for our intrepid Transportation Secretary, he’s on the case as usual – not:

Funny thing – Buttigieg’s incompetent tenure in the job is probably the first time I ever really noticed the post of secretary of transportation. It’s remarkable how many transportation problems there have been during the Biden administration.

Comments

The Ohio train derailment — 54 Comments

  3. An observer of Buttigieg offered that he does ‘comms’ for the Department of Transportation and nothing else. He’s actually redundant for formulating and executing policy. In his case, I believe it.

    Note he was Mayor of South Bend, and interesting career move for the ambitious walking resume. When you’re the mayor of a core city, the most salient data gauging your performance in co-operation with the municipal council would be the bond rating and the crime rates. Not sure about the bond rating. The frequency of robbery declined by about 15% during his tenure and burglary and auto theft were less frequent than they had been. Homicide, rape, and aggravated assault were all more frequent (by 30%, 25%, and 45% respectively).

  6. At least Pete’s not a racist.

    Bully for him.

    One curio you discover rummaging through Census data (and it’s not a feature of life any mayor can do much about in real time) is that the black population in South Bend is abnormally impecunious. Comparatively speaking, St. Joseph County, Indiana is not an affluent area (IIRC, personal income per capita is around 17% below the national mean). The black population in South Bend is notable for having lower incomes on average than Mississippi’s black population. No clue why migration patterns and human capital development in St. Joseph’s County have led to that result.

  7. My youngest son and his wife moved to Ohio middle of last year (from Portland, OR). They live about 70 miles west of the area of the derailment. This makes me sick.

    One can’t help worrying about a beloved family member and the air/water situation. I know wind typically moves west to east (not that I want ANYONE to be harmed by this), so keeping fingers crossed for all affected.

    sdferr, thank you for the links. The second one was especially helpful!

  8. Thanks for the links, sdferr. Based on those, the emergency teams did the right things, and what has been lacking is communication. If Buttigieg’s job is to be “comms” director for Transportation, he’s repeatedly failed that assignment.

  9. Some links to relevant NTSB and EPA pages about the Ohio derailment:

    From the NTSB website: ?”This information is preliminary and subject to change.
    Investigative Update 14 February 2023

    The NTSB investigation of the Feb. 3 Norfolk Southern freight train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio is ongoing. On Feb. 3, at approximately 8:54 p.m., local time, eastbound Norfolk Southern Railway, general merchandise freight train 32N, derailed on main track 1 in East Palestine, Ohio. As a result of the derailment, 38 rail cars derailed and a fire ensued which damaged an additional 12 cars. There were 20 total hazardous material cars in the train consist—11 of which derailed. A list of what the derailed rail cars were carrying is available online. There were no reported fatalities or injuries. . . .

    NTSB investigators have identified and examined the rail car that initiated the derailment. Surveillance video from a residence showed what appears to be a wheel bearing in the final stage of overheat failure moments before the derailment. The wheelset from the suspected railcar has been collected as evidence for metallurgical examination. The suspected overheated wheel bearing has been collected and will be examined by engineers from the NTSB Materials Laboratory in Washington, D.C.

    The tank cars are currently being decontaminated. Once the process is complete, NTSB investigators will return to Ohio to complete a thorough examination of the tank cars.

    The vinyl chloride tank car top fittings, including the relief valves, were removed and secured in a locked intermodal container pending an NTSB examination. Once the fittings are examined by NTSB investigators, they will be shipped to Texas for testing, which will be conducted under the direction of the NTSB.

    NTSB has obtained locomotive event recorder data, forward- and inward-facing image recording data and wayside defect detector data. NTSB investigators continue to review documentation, event recorder data and perform interviews. A preliminary report is expected to publish in two weeks.”

    https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23MR005.aspx

    The NTSB linked to the EPA website as follows:
    East Palestine Train Derailment
    “Feb. 14, 2023 Update

    Earlier this afternoon, U.S. EPA Regional Administrator Debra Shore issued a statement on the emergency response at East Palestine, Ohio. The statement is available here: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/statement-regional-administrator-debra-shore-east-palestine-train-derailment

    On the evening of Feb. 13, U.S. EPA discontinued air monitoring for phosgene and hydrogen chloride community air monitoring. After the fire was extinguished on Feb. 8, the threat of vinyl chloride fire producing phosgene and hydrogen chloride no longer exists. U.S. EPA will continue 24-hour community air monitoring for other chemicals of concern.

    As of end of the day February 13th, U.S. EPA has screened indoor air at 396 homes, with 100 homes remaining, and 65 homes on the schedule for today.”

    https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=15933

  10. So according to Little Petey, there’s too many white men in construction. Has he even been down to a jobsite lately to see who’s doing the framing, drywalling, and masonry work? Oh, maybe he’s talking about the trades that require, you know, actual literacy and skill like pipe fitting, electrical, HVAC, etc. etc.

  11. this is the 100th such incident, are we in enemy action territory, while we pretend that delta house carousers are the threat to the republic, it seems we are suffering the deaths of a thousands cuts,

    phosgene gas, the stuff that scarred and killed hundred and thousands in the great war well there’s no equity and inclusion angle here, now gas stoves ‘those are a clear and present danger’

  13. Vanguard and blackrock are the major holders in norfolk southern, the wokest funds at this time,

  14. “Too many w m in construction.”

    What the heck?

    Perhaps kindly Petey has never had a MANUAL LABOR JOB.

    There are bosses who are keeping the non-white people away? Please tell us where these bosses are.

    I include the restaurant + food industries in [manual labor jobs] , FWIW.

    Construction + other manual jobs are usually very: strenuous, damaging, + have a lot of dirt or sand with them.

    Most people, whether they are “white people” or not, are trying to find jobs that [aren’t] physical labor jobs.

    No joke meant, but I’m sure that most of the US’s construction companies will take ANYBODY who will ask for these jobs.
    Bring a crowd with you, when you apply.

    I think physical labor jobs are great, but its probably healthier for people in their 40s-60s, or older, to find jobs that don’t physically tire them out each day.

    My apologies to people in manual labor jobs, if you think they’re the best, + if these jobs- are jobs that work well with you, when you are age 40 or above.

  16. People on Twitter have been saying that the cause of the derailment was Capitalism, that profit-seeking corporations are cutting corners to save money.

    I’d be interested to read about the safety and labor policies on Soviet railroads, but I’m pretty sure I know what the answers would be.

    I’m a bit familiar with safety record of Washington Metrorail, a system that was never defiled by any such thing as Profit, and it’s pretty dismal.

  17. Here is the phosgene info from the CDC

    Phosgene | ToxFAQs™ | ATSDR (cdc.gov)

    “Phosgene in the air may also react with moisture in clouds or rain and be broken down into other compounds.”

    I would guess the firefighters at the controlled burn of the product would have set up mist/very fine spray of water to mitigate phosgene generated burning of the vinyl chloride. But I haven’t been watching the coverage.

    This incident will probablly be a topic in (my) next year’s annual Hazardous Waste Worker Annual Refresher training.

    The other compounds that are formed when phosgene reacts with water are hydrochloric acid and carbon dioxide. So phosgene inhaled results in hydrochloric acid in the respiratory tract.

  19. Well emergency brakes are a luxury i suppose and burning toxic chemicals gosh dont remember a place called ground zero what could go wrong.

  20. Buttigieg and Kamala Harris got jumped to the front of the line, mostly because the media loved them, but they are a harbinger of what’s to come. The American elite have been disconnecting themselves from any sort of merit or achievement for a while now and Trump’s Presidency appears to have accelerated that trend.

    Also think Andrew Cuomo where it wasn’t important how he was actually handling the COVID crisis. It only mattered how he appeared to be handling it.

    Mike

  21. If the tanker is at risk from a BLEVE (uncontrolled explosion Miguel) it is better to burn it when your firefighters at the scene have some control.

    HAZWAZ 101, it ain’t the first rodeo, senor.

  23. “It’s hard to stop a train.”

    Is it harder than shooting down a weather balloon over Montana?

    (Sorry. Couldn’t resist.)

    Mike

  24. “Is it harder than shooting down a weather balloon over Montana?”

    Hee, hee, hee! 😀

    Well…I heard that the words, “Ice Cream Truck”, were written on the side of the balloon, so maybe Biden hesitated- when he sent his fighter-planes after the balloon. ;D

  25. First we have fighters shooting down balloons, then poison gas. Biden has brought us back to WWI.

  26. Bunge:

    One of those things is not like the other.

    You weren’t so keen about dropping the Chinese payload (2000 lbs or so) on your little patch of flyover IIRC. And somehow there aren’t any, or many, photos of the last 3 or 4 objects that have been downed.

    Billings is a city IIRC. What’s a few Montanans to keep you safe in your bunker?

  27. Back in my deputy days, I had a training class on BLEVEs . Very scary stuff. The fire fighters who taught the class, in reference to what chemicals you might find in the air at a BLEVE, or a train wreck, since Law Enforcement would most likely be first on scene, you want to be real careful, once you cross The Dead Cop Line.
    That term really got my attention.

  28. An old Dylan blues I happened to remember:
    ________________________

    Don’t the moon look good, honey, shinin’ through the trees
    Don’t the brakemen look good, baby, flaggin’ down the “Double-E”
    Don’t the sun look good doin’ down over the sea
    But don’t my gal look fine when she’s chasin’ after me

    Now, the wintertime is comin’, the windows are filled with frost
    I went to tell everybody but I could not get across
    Well, I want to be your lover, baby, I don’t want to be your boss
    Don’t say I never warned you if your train gets lost

    –Bob Dylan, “It Takes a Lot to Laugh, It Takes a Train to Cry”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN1ACh8lzHg

  29. @ Neo > ” It’s remarkable how many transportation problems there have been during the Biden administration.”

    At least the original Fascists were said to have made the trains run on time.
    These new ones can’t do anything competently.

  30. The great and mighty Sec. hath deigned to respond…essentially saying nothing…
    (huge surprise, that…):
    “Buttigieg Breaks Silence on Ohio Train Derailment After Backlash”—
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/buttigieg-breaks-silence-on-ohio-train-derailment-after-backlash_5056324.html
    Let’s see now:
    Buttigieg, Mayorkas, Haines, Yellin, Blinken, Austin, Garland, Becerra, Granholm, Cardona, etc… oh, and who’d wanna forget Assistant-Secretary Levine… what a crew…

    File under: The Joy of (“Biden”) Secs…

  32. And here’s the kicker…
    “[T]he train was not classified as carrying hazardous chemicals” and LEGALLY, DID NOT HAVE TO BE:
    “Important Takeaways from Ohio Gov’s Train Derailment Briefing, Including a Shocking Revelation”—
    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/paula-bolyard/2023/02/14/important-takeaways-from-ohio-govs-train-derailment-briefing-including-a-shocking-revelation-n1670610
    H/T Instapundit.
    Key grafs:
    ‘…One of the most astounding revelations from the press conference (watch below) was that the train was not classified as carrying hazardous chemicals.
    ‘ “I learned today from the PUCO [Public Utilities Council of Ohio] that this train was not considered a high hazardous material train,” [Ohio Governor] DeWine said. As a result, the railroad was not required to notify anyone in Ohio about what the train was carrying.
    ‘ “Even though some rail cars did have hazardous material on board, and while most of them did not, that’s why it was not categorized as a high hazardous material train,” said DeWine. “Frankly, if this is true, and I’m told it’s true, this is absurd. And we need to look at this. And Congress needs to take a look at how these things are handled. We should know when we are trains carrying hazardous materials that are going through the state of Ohio.” The governor called on Congress to investigate the matter and make changes to the law if necessary….’

    Yes, an accident; BUT…

  35. They think it was a bearing failure, and it would be possible for the train to go quite some distance with that fire expanding.

  38. Thats why i say minimum competence im no rocket surgeon but maybe there are chemikals that suppress fire instead of spreading it into the atmosphere.

  39. Actually, there may not have been any good choices there, ONCE IT HAPPENED.
    I don’t know. I can’t know. (I’m no expert either.)

    The issue should have been (should be): maximum safety, i.e., once you know you’re carrying this kind of stuff on your train, you do your utmost, you take EVERY precaution—including going at low speeds(?)—so that you don’t derail.

    (Now what are the chances that we’ll soon find out that the train driver/engineer DID NOT KNOW that stuff was on that train?)

  41. If it really does end up being that a wheel bearing failure was the culprit, it seems that there must’ve been some sort of lack of proper inspection or something? Apparently there are these things called “wheel impact load detectors”:

    Railroads also employ Wheel Impact Load Detectors (WILD) along their rights of way. These detectors identify wheels on a railcar that may have flat spots or other defects before a wheel can cause damage to railroad track structures.[5]

    I have no idea if such detectors would be able to identify an imminent bearing failure however, they seem to be focused on identifing deformations in the wheels themselves rather than the bearings. But either way, it seems likely there was some kind of inspection failure at some point.

  42. ” Buttigieg’s incompetent tenure in the job is probably the first time I ever really noticed the post of secretary of transportation.”

    Someone – I think either Iowahawk or Jim Treacher – has a Twitter snark saying more or less exactly this. Glenn Reynolds puts it up frequently in the feed at Instapundit when there’s yet another link (and there always seems to be another link) highlighting the man’s incompetence.

  43. Miguel:

    Have the Unicorn fly over and wizz until the fire is out. Then the Unicorn can flap its mighty wings and blow those nasty fumes out of the environment. And then the
    Unicorn can land and drink up all the toxic water.

    About as practical as your amazing magic fire fighting fluid.

  44. @ PA Cat > “More on Buttigieg’s inverted sense of priorities:”

    On the contrary, he is acting directly ON his priority, which is to maintain at least some pretense of being a viable presidential candidate in 2024.
    Butty’s tweets about the train, after somebody told him he needed to respond, were probably written by one of his staffers.

    The LI post contains some useful information on the chemicals and why they had to be burned in place.

  45. A variant on Neo’s remark, at the LI post:
    JohnC | February 14, 2023 at 4:30 pm
    thebradfordfile:
    “Pete Buttigieg is so bad at his job people actually know who the Sec. of Transportation is.”

  46. It’s hard to calculate how many items Trans has to keep in working order. Some have been in place for decades, possibly, years certainly. And how many are not functioning?
    I had not heard of “wayside” detectors for hot boxes in years, but I do recall hearing of them when I was considerably younger.
    My experience, seeing Infantry companies changing commanders, is limited in space here.
    Still, one might look for…how long since the Thus&Such system has been fully inspected. That long? Check it out now? How many do we have? How many are not functioning?
    That sort of thing should be automatic upon taking command, so to speak.

    Trains carry enormous kinetic energy, cargo aside. Keeping them on the rails should be a priority whose failure is hugely, monstrously expensive, and will happen. How about switches and wayside detectors be looked at and if not recently, right the freak now?

    This is not some kind of genius-level figuring, but simple enough to think of, to order, and to insist on its completion. And the institution has people skilled enough in diagnosing whatever they’re looking at.

    You’ve probably seen railroad companies’ pickup trucks which can change from road wheels to track wheels. Pretty neat. No reason any of them should be sitting still in daylight hours.

    Even if Pete inherited a slack outfit, did he make any efforts to tighten it up? He’s had time to, at least, initiate measures.

  47. I just posted this on the new “Open Thread” but I guess it’s pertinent here, too:

    Additional background on the train disaster in Ohio:
    “Norfolk Southern Eliminated Key Maintenance Role In Derailment Region, Union Says”—
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-derailment-region-union-says
    Apparently, the railroad company wanted to save a few bucks…
    Key grafs:
    “[A] union of rail workers has questioned declining maintenance standards following the Feb. 3 Norfolk Southern derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, which forced the evacuation of the 5,000-person town earlier this month.
    “A device that can play a role in preventing derailments is the wayside hot-box detector. It uses infrared sensors to detect bearings, axles or other components of a rail car that are overheating, then uses radio signals to flag rail crews of any overheated components…
    “…Wayside hot-box detectors — also called “hot boxes” — are typically placed every 25 miles along a railroad…. Their use has contributed to a 59% decrease in train accidents caused by axle- and bearing-related factors since 1990….
    “Declining head counts have led to these mechanisms receiving less preventative maintenance, according to an official from the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen union.
    “The [Federal Railroad Adminstration (FRA)] has no regulations requiring the use or maintenance of hot boxes….”

    …all of which, according to Sec. Pete, pins the blame squarely on Donald Trump….
    Figures…

  48. Barry. You have got to be kidding. Please. No entity run by humans can be that stupid.
    I wonder what kind of bonus the guy who suggested that got. Hope the check’s cleared. Or maybe upper is shrugging, “You pays your money, you takes your chances” and is hiring some top end shysters.
    I note a local attorney is advising the folks not to take the first offer of settlement.
    Good lord.
    You know, an infra-red detector which isn’t required to see in other frequencies, nor move, nor swivel, nor make judgment calls, and which has what amounts to an of/off switch for an alarm signal can’t be that expensive to maintain, compared to other expenses.

  49. Richard Aubrey:

    The union has an interest in safety, in union headcount, and in protecting union members. What are the facts, that’s what the NTSB will have to determine.

  50. om

    I get that.
    I guess my point is…they weren’t saving big bucks, if in fact they were dissing maintenance. They were saving coffee money.

  51. At Legal Insurrection they asked, “Is this Joe’s Katrina?”

    Maybe so, but it’s certainly Norfolk Southern’s Bhopal. A textbook example of bad public relations. The gold standard was McNeil Pharmaceuticals’ handling of the Tylenol tampering. They responded immediately, owned it, told the truth, had a plan and laid it out in public.

    The fact that the residents even need a Townhall is a disgrace. The fact that the Townhall revealed nothing is a disaster.

  52. It appears Norfolk Southern operates just short of 20,000 miles of road.

    Using the aforementioned convertible pickup trucks going at–arbitrarily–25mph for eight hours, that’s 200 miles out and four hours back on the highway. And that’s 100 trips.

    Call it two trips a week, you cover the entire trackage once a year. Presuming some high school STEM class can rig up an infrared source the crew can shoot at the sensors as they pass and listen for the automatic alarm,

    So, presume for administrative convenience, you have twenty sectors of a thousand miles each. Each sector needs….four trips. Is that satisfactory for a year’s safety standards?

    I keep going over this. It’s so de minimis I feel I’m missing something. If I’ve dropped a zero someplace, each sector needs one trip a week…. Is that such a big deal?

    Or, maybe a trip a month for each 250 mile stretch. That’s about one a week per sector, fifty a year. Fifty days not doing something else out of a year. What would that cost?

    I don’t know if N/S has the kind of money such presumed negligence deserves.

    Is it true FEMA told the town to forget it?

  53. FEMA apparently told the town that other agencies are better prepared to deal with air and water contamination. FEMA deals with houses destroyed or flooded. The EPA director was there; said they’ve tested 480 houses for inside air, checking for all the chemicals which were released from the train, and they say it’s now safe. He said he trusts water testing from the states of Ohio and PA, and agrees that owners with wells yet to be tested should use bottled water until tests say it’s safe. According to Best of the Web at the WSJ today, he sounded sensible and credible. It’s Norfolk Southern which appears to be blowing this response. They “accidentally” asked people to sign papers waiving liability before testing water, and when this was reported, said they wouldn’t enforce those waivers.

    Apparently the electronic braking system whose repeal Buttigieg tried to use to blame Trump would not have applied to this train anyhow. It was for trains carrying all dangerous chemicals. This train had only a few cars. Reports are also that NS has increased train lengths by 20% and cut staff by 40%. I’m guessing we’ll find there are maintenance problems.

  54. Kate. Thanks for the info. I recall during Katrina that FEMA was faulted for not being in there rescuing people or something. Not their job, but a republican was president.
    I can see NS making errors–which is to say getting caught trying to skate–but the problem is trusting the EPA and other institutions.

    I don’t do trains. Not my thing. But from what I can tell, including surveillance footage showing the train going along with at least one car throwing–sparks or chunks of molten metal–all along its length, not sure what a braking system would do. About as relevant as the horn. A deflection.

    As I mentioned in my amateur math, keeping an eye on the hot-box detectors doesn’t seem to be a major stressor on operations.

    Presuming NS survives this, it will be interesting to see what kind of eye-wash they intro to make it look as if they are doing something.

    kate.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

↑