Trump’s explanation
Trump has attempted to explain what he meant and didn’t mean by his recent statement that caused so much controversy, about Twitter and the 2020 election. An excerpt:
“The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to ‘terminate’ the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is ‘MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,’ as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. Only FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA!”
The original quote was this:
“So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”
Before I try to give my take on it, I want to state that a vast number of people who detest Trump will always interpret anything he says in the worst possible light. That’s a given; he will not be treated fairly. But that’s all the more reason that he needs to be crystal clear. I don’t mean he needs to be mealy-mouthed; one can be forceful and direct and even strident and still leave oneself less open to misinterpretation (knowing of course that no matter how clear you are you will be misinterpreted, especially if you are Trump).
The problem is that Trump often fails to do that, which leaves the door wide open for his enemies. For the statements of Trump’s under discussion here, even many of his friends and previous supporters interpreted his words to mean something very radical about going past the Constitution. I believe I understand his correction, which I’d paraphrase this way [phrases I’ve changed are bolded):
“So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? What is the proper remedy? Is there one? Because once A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude has occurred, it already has undone all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!
I’m sure if Trump had said that it would have been heavily criticized as well, but I believe that at least it would have been clearer (that’s, of course, if I’m understanding his correction of what he meant).
But the horse has already left the barn. What the original statement sounded like gave his enemies a great gift. This is a longstanding problem with Trump – that his utterances or tweets are often phrased in a way that leaves him even more open to the worst interpretations by his enemies than they ordinarily would. He can say all he wants afterwards about what he really meant, but the damage is done and it turns a lot of moderates against him as well.
As for the notion that a corrupt election undoes the Constitution and the rest, I don’t think it actually does. The rules are still there, it’s the people in charge who are corrupt, and in the end rules are never anything without people of integrity to administer them. No rule can ever be written that protects us utterly. Just to take one example, all of Hitler’s tyrannical power was taken though constitutional means – including the legislature’s surrender of its own power to him. The German Constitution existed, but people hollowed it out. Maybe I’m making a point that’s pedantic and not especially meaningful – a tyranny accomplished by constitutional means abrogate the meaning and intent of the constitution, if not the constitution itself. But I think it’s important to understand the difference.
If you say that the US today doesn’t align with the Founders’ vision for its functioning, you’d be correct. But that happened long before Trump ran for president. It’s been getting worse, and polls indicate that many people know it.
I’ll close with this:
It’s also true he has tweeted many things which proved correct, but at the time got derision. For example, when he first claimed government “wiretapped” him.
For now I’ll just say that I REALLY HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE USE ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS when making an argument on the internet. I really don’t think it helps convince people that you’re right. All caps are fine for humorous purposes, but not for serious arguments.
Trump was (and remains) an outsider, nor would even his most ardent admirers consider him a rhetorician of Ciceronian skillfulness. He is inclined to exaggerate (albeit much less mendacious than Biden) and is not always precise in his use of language (albeit far less abusive of words than leftists), but part of his appeal has been that he is able to communicate with ordinary voters (working-class and middle-class Americans, of all races, who have good reason to mistrust the obfuscations of more polished speakers) in a manner which is easily comprehensible on significant issues of policy and culture which affect the lives of all. A candidate of more clearly scripted delivery but obviously of less sincerity would never have generated such a vast following.
One problem with Trump’s recent statement is that there is no reasonable way to achieve redress. A popular uprising overthrowing the existing administration or the impeachment of Biden/Harris and replacement with the Speaker of the House is the only types of redress possible, and neither are going to happen.
Trump has often said things he probably shouldn’t have. If he had better message discipline he could advance his cause better. I liked most of his policies as POTUS but tended to ignore his tweets (and had a wait and see response to Trump statements).
Nonapod on December 6, 2022 at 3:27 pm said:
For now I’ll just say that I REALLY HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE USE ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS when making an argument on the internet. I really don’t think it helps convince people that you’re right. All caps are fine for humorous purposes, but not for serious arguments.
As used in the Trump statement neo posted, it looked to me like the caps was a good way of highlighting parts of the message. It wasn’t all caps, just the key parts.
It’s come down to steal a election and your home free until the next election then according to most.
Anything else achieved by fraud at least use to be able to be rectify
Another take
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/12/did_trump_emreally_callem_to_terminate_the_constitution.html
Trump is an embarrassment and a disgrace to the office that he once held (and hopes to hold again). He and Biden are examples A and B of the dumbing down of America. What bothers me most about DJT is his ego, narcissism, and his terrible judge of people. It is amusing watching the ForeverTrump people twist themselves into pretzels trying to rationalize his idiotic statements.
Don said: As used in the Trump statement neo posted, it looked to me like the caps was a good way of highlighting parts of the message. It wasn’t all caps, just the key parts.
I don’t know, maybe you’re right. But I just feel like I’m being yelled at when I read sections of all caps text, rather than highlighting key elements. It’s a problem with tone and text I guess.
Trump does what he always does which is get people talking about what HE wants to talk about, the way HE wants to talk about it (with people who oppose him on the defensive). The constant extra-Constitutionality of the left and the illegitimacy of recent elections would not be before the public in the direct manner that it is if not for Trump raising the subject. Well thought out essays in conservative media or even on Fox would not get the amplification that comes from a bellowing Trump. Everyone knows that Trump exaggerates, bellows, tells mean jokes, and says things for effect, so when I see people getting the vapors about his “inarticulate” and/or “dangerous” rhetoric, I just have to laugh because such people are either completely stupid or they are purposefully trying to change the topic.
Indeed
https://www.westernjournal.com/kari-lake-arizonas-next-governor-google-stop/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=westernjournalism&utm_content=2022-12-05&utm_campaign=manualtweet
Is Trump just typing out the Tweet on his iphone and no one else sees it before it goes? If not, is there no one in his entourage that has the standing to say, “Let’s think about this”? If not, and I think the answer is pretty clearly “not”, that’s another reason he shouldn’t be the nominee.
How can a person who made his living making deals with other powerful people be so blind to the damage he does with his potential allies and supporters.
Trump is stating an object fact the as to the solution that prevents another stealing of the ship of state ymmv
Neo, you should apply for President Trump’s twitter writer!
I agree that makes what he was trying to convey clear. Here’s my take.
What President Trump said: “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”
What I think he meant: A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude has effectively terminated all of the rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.
In a way, it took his rather obtuse and seemingly controversial tweet to get American’s to confront the problem. Which is there is no remedy for the type of voting irregularity/insecurity/”fraud” that were building in our elections and burst onto the scene fully formed in 2020.
I think Sundance has framed it in a way that is crystal clear as to why there is no remedy:
“The supreme court will not hear an election controversy issue or legal challenge based on certified results from states. The constitution permits states to conduct their own elections, and as long as federal laws are not violated, the state certification ends the discussion. This is the great dichotomy within U.S. election around election manipulation by a state or local election officials. There is no federal recourse if no federally protected category was adversely impacted.”
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/05/president-trump-was-correct-about-the-constitution-and-elections-kari-lakes-lawsuit-shows-why/#more-240583
If true, we are left to the state’s court system for a remedy. But they have become a cesspool mirroring the leftist notions of governance by legislators that have produced this irredeemable system of voting.
One might say that a fraudulent election makes the Constitution irrelevant.
The real problem is Trump should have moved on to more fertile ground. Yes, it seems that the 2020 election was stolen, but instead of trying to relitigate it, he — and the rest of us — should be pushing for election reform. Loud and clear, over and over, a proactive push to clean things up instead of dwelling on trying to somehow ‘correct’ the 2020 election. Reform, reform, reform.
Oh, and get those January 6 political prisoners out of jail — it is appalling what has happened to them.
the people in charge in the arizona and pennsylvania and michigan state houses, will accept the broken eggs, the dead marines, the shattered supply chains, the dumpster fires the major metropolis have become. including new york and philadelphia, the two capitals of our then rising republic, the saruman speech was as in intended the profanation of the hope of our nation, a deliberate act,
trump is an imperfect instrument, I have made my feelings known on some issues of style, but there are few that step up, look at how his forerunner was treated, looks at how the imposter that occupies the naval observatory is regarded (yes her staff which is like the carousel in logans run can’t stand her) but she is part of policy decisions, often in the worst way,
I don’t think Trump’s post was at all unclear or even legitimately controversial. What he’s stating pretty clearly seems to be…
“If you are grievously wronged and then denied any and all legitimate avenues of redress, the rules under which you have been wronged no longer merit any respect or adherence.”
And it’s kind of important to remember the context, which is that elements of the U.S. law enforcement and intelligence communities conspired to perpetrate a fraud and attempt to defenestrate a legally elected President.
Mike
now the end result of this steal, ladies and gentlemen
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1600240646240882688
Trump’s loose talk is just too much. We don’t need this grief and necessity to constantly explain what he meant. We have better options.
In any event, the Trump Org was convicted today of tax fraud in NY. The new Special Counsel will indict Trump in DC. He will be convicted regardless of the facts. Ron the Second will pardon Trump. End of story.
they charge the innocent and acquit the guilty, for whom the bell tolls, certain not for this most degenerate clan, this side of the house of Usher, that would be the ones from scranton,
https://www.nysun.com/article/the-trump-organization-verdict
Trump has (had) the persuasion game to beat HRC as there was a way to do it with less than 50% of the popular vote, and many folks already detested HRC. In fact, much of the post-2016-election fun was watching Dems’ apoplectic responses about the result. It was an “in-your-eye” kind of victory. But he does not have the persuasion game to unite the country or to bring a majority people together for a common cause or to win another election, for that matter. He had one shot, took it, won, but it is not repeatable with his rigid tactics. He keeps going back to the well, but it’s dry at this point. There are the never-ending tortuous explanations of “what he’s really saying is…” He shouldn’t need this many translators if he’s such a persuasion god. It’s like the Monty Python skit: Oscar, James and George in the company of Bertie.—– Your majesty is like a stream of bat’s piss…what I meant is that you shine out like a shaft of gold while all around is dark. (Trump and his explainers).
That is funny even if not apt. 🙂
fantome, in 2020 he got more votes than any Republican. And would have won if the Ds hadn’t unconstitutionally altered the election process.
The problem isn’t the persuasion process, but a rigged system.
Brian E:
If true, we are left to the state’s court system for a remedy. But they have become a cesspool mirroring the leftist notions of governance by legislators that have produced this irredeemable system of voting.
In the key 2020 states it was done not by state legislators, but by courts and lawyers and bureaucrats. Not the constitutional process.
they don’t need to persuade in the conventional sense if they control the ‘commanding heights’ like the tower castle in ‘holy grail’ to continue the metaphor, media academia even parts of corporate america, like black rock’s steady infiltration through esg
“We don’t need this grief and necessity to constantly explain what he meant.”
Then stop explaining because…and stay with me here…THE EXPLANATIONS DO NOT MATTER.
If you’re uncomfortable defending Trump, get over it. You’ll have to defend DeSantis and any other Republican from the same sort of attacks and to the extent DeSantis and other GOPers aren’t treated like Trump, it will be entirely due to them not challenging the Deep State, the Chamber of Commerce, and the Military/Industrial Complex.
I think we’re headed for disaster but it’s entirely possible that disaster doesn’t show up in the next two years. If in October 2024, we’ve got lower inflation, strong job growth, and nobody’s been nuked, it’s very likely we’ll be watching Biden cruise to re-election whether it’s Trump or DeSantis as Republican nominee. So I think people ought to start right now disabusing themselves of the delusion that it’s anymore about being reasonable, making the best arguments, having the best ideas, or being the better person.
Mike
neo (emphasis added): “For the statements of Trump’s under discussion here, even many of his friends and previous supporters interpreted his words to mean something very radical about going past the Constitution.”
In comments on other blogs and communications to friends, I have described Republicans/Conservatives as falling within 5 categories when it comes to attitudes toward Donald J. Trump:
• Never Trumpers (whose despicable lack of judgment just might be the cause of our currently suffering with Biden);
• Those who wanted to be Never Trumpers but realized Trump was better than any Democrat;
• Those who became Never Again Trumpers because they believe that Trump has made and continues to make unforced errors that will be detrimental to electoral chances of conservatives;
• Those who recognize Trump’s unforced errors yet realize that, imperfect as he may or may not be, Trump was among the best post-WWII presidents and has been and continues to be one of the best champions of conservative values;
• Ever Trumpers, who either can’t recognize or crazily won’t acknowledge Trump’s unforced errors.
Unfortunately, even some conservatives who had been in the 2nd – 5th categories are susceptible to the attractions even of evil mobs.
Trump avoids affirmatively stating that he wants to terminate the constitution by forming the language as a question instead of a statement:
Here’s the case for doing X.
Should we do X?
Now he says, “No, no. I never suggested that we do X.” I’m sorry, yes he did. The funny part is that these are the same kind of stupid word games that his opponents use. (E.g., October 2020 :”The Hunter Biden laptop has all the halmarks of Russian misinformation;” Now: “We never said that the laptop was Russian misinformation.”)
How much lower can the concerned conservative™ go in his OMB?
Conflating Brandon’s crack head son’s laptop election interference (run by Silicon Valley social media, the old media, and branches of the Federal government) with Conservatives and populists who don’t view Trump as he does?
Suppression of the First Ammendment, Boxy, they already did that, not the Great Orange Whale.
Sad, truly sad.
Ira: “• Those who recognize Trump’s unforced errors yet realize that, imperfect as he may or may not be, Trump was among the best post-WWII presidents and has been and continues to be one of the best champions of conservative values;”
That’s my pew. I recognize that Trump may not be the nominee for 2024. He may well be too drowned in legal matters to campaign effectively. He might lose to someone else. Que sera, sera.
If he’s the candite, I will support him fully. If it’s someone else, I will support him/her fully. Why? Because that is the only chance we have to move back toward a constitutional republic.
Ask yourself this: Would we have been better off if McCain had beaten Obama? Or if Romney had beaten Obama? They might not have been as good as Trump, but they would not have “fundamentally transformed” the government as Obama did and continues to do. Any number of Republicans would be better than any Democrat possibility. Simply because the Democrats have gone too far toward authoritarianism.
We can debate about the merits of the actual candidates soon enough. How nice it would be to have a “great communicator” step forward and sweep us to victory. Yes, we need a good candidate, but I opine that it’s not the quality of our candidates that is lacking. What we need is a better grasp of how to get the votes. We need to play as hard and tough as the Democrats at getting out the vote and making sure the count is honest. If ballot harvesting is legal, we need to do it. If we control a state’s legislature, we want to be sure the election laws are fair and followed ala Florida. We need more and better online presence in the younger age group media haunts. Somehow, we need to find ways to get our message out that can’t be muffled or distorted by the MSM. Musk and Twitter may be a help. There are many other ideas for improving our election results, but these are a few.
It’s a lot of work, but as the Gipper said, we’re always one generation from losing our freedom. If we won’t do the work, who will?
Corhead:
“In any event, the Trump Org was convicted today of tax fraud in NY. The new Special Counsel will indict Trump in DC. He will be convicted regardless of the facts. Ron the Second will pardon Trump. End of story.”
A Hallmark ending. From your computer to God’s eyes. 🙂
JJ: ” Any number of Republicans would be better than any Democrat possibility.”
Exactly.
And, yes to the rest of your comment!
Neo, thanks for the Reagan video. I never tire of hearing him speak, but most especially when he is talking about America, which he loves.
Transcript from the link:
Just as the Left has taken Orwell’s “1984” as an operating manual, they took Reagan’s warning as a challenge, and have spent much effort and money on blocking this handing off of the importance, and meaning, of freedom.
Many people have tried to protect and defend the legacy of the Revolution, but it’s hard to prevail against the weight of nearly all of the institutions that should be foremost in the process, instead of fighting against it.
om – Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
JJ (and Ira): ” Any number of Republicans would be better than any Democrat possibility.”
Me – YES – So don’t run the candidate who will split your coalition and guarantee a Democratic victory. Even if you think Trump was the best president since WWII, your’s is a minority view, maybe even in your own party at this point.
concerned conservative™:
I misunderstood your latest? We are not worthy.
Zelensky times man of the year only cost 100 billion
Miguel:
You have the sads because it wasn’t Vlad?
If Trump were an establishment liberal progressive, the media would be doing triple somersaults and triple axles explaining to the world what Trump really meant to say.
Or, they would just totally ignore what he said.
Given that Trump is the media’s number 1 target for annihilation he could say that 2+2 = 4, and he would be mocked for “stating such an obvious fact that three year old’s know it.”
No mystery that anything Trump says will be explained by the media in the most negative if not untruthful way possible.
Yet, he will not or cannot restrain his shoot from the hip, politically suicidal comments which provide more ammo for the media and for those seeking his destruction.
If the media loved Trump, barnacles and all, he would be unbeatable in any national election.
Bauxite: “Me – YES – So don’t run the candidate who will split your coalition and guarantee a Democratic victory.”
You just don’t get it. We must come to grips with the fact that any, yes any, Republican candidate is better. Trump endorsed him? Fine. Trump didn’t endorse him? Fine. Who would have believed that Fetterman, Warnock, Hobbs, and even Biden could win elections against even mediocre Republicans? It shows me that it isn’t the quality of the candidate that is our problem. The Democrats have managed to get some real losers elected. Republicans have to get over this crap of not staying united and getting behind every one of our candidates. Politics is a team activity. Get on the team. Work and vote for whoever the nominee is. This squabbling among ourselves over someone who’s not conservative enough, doesn’t speak well, doesn’t share my views on abortion, doesn’t share my views on immigration, etc., etc. is self-defeating. Once the candidate is chosen in the primaries, get behind that candidate. There are few, if any, perfect candidates. Stand behind the ones we have no matter what. That’s what the Democrats do and that’s why people like Biden, Fetterman, Hobbs, and Warnock get elected.
As a Constitutionalist and a Goldwater Conservative for all of my life, I agreed with President Trump. Democrats don’t believe in the basis of the Constitution and never did except to beat anyone who opposed they socialist agenda. It is time Conservative and Patriotic America stopped consider Democrat and Liberal as American and deserving of life or the protection of our Constitution. I only regret that it will take a while before rightful Americas get up the courage to rid ourselves of the filthy population of Liberal and Democrats rotting away at our heart.
Should we be glad that Liz Cheney wasn’t Time’s Person of the Year? Or does dodging that bullet mean the magazine will keep staggering on, a shadow of its former self? Like a zombie.
I thought it was pretty clear that Trump was saying that the results could be invalidated and a new election could be held or a new president and vice president sworn in even though it wasn’t by a vote of the Electoral College or for a full four year term on the date specified in the Constitution. He was wrong about that happening. It won’t happen now. It probably never will. He also phrased it very awkwardly in a way that could be taken as saying that the Constitution was invalid or suspended or “terminated.”
“Old Trump” can’t win, and there’s not going to be a “New Trump.” That’s a pity, but hard to dispute successfully.
I think we have been in a decline since 2008, in truth probably since the 2006 election when Barney Frank and Maxine Water engineered the 2008 collapse. Obama revived racism and tried, cautiously, to enact leftist policies. Obamacare wiped out his Congressional majority but, with the assistance of McConnell and other GOPe types, they were able to suppress the TEA Party uprising. The TEA Party came back in 2016 as Trump, astonishingly, defeated Hillary. I used to think she was the most corrupt person since Aaron Burr to get close to the presidency. Sadly, Biden has outdone her with a lot of help from his friends and donors.
I think we’re headed for disaster but it’s entirely possible that disaster doesn’t show up in the next two years. If in October 2024, we’ve got lower inflation, strong job growth, and nobody’s been nuked, it’s very likely we’ll be watching Biden cruise to re-election whether it’s Trump or DeSantis as Republican nominee.
I don’t think it is that simple. I think the 2024 election is a poisoned chalice. It may be that the economic collapse and/or war will occur prior to the election. I agree inflation will continue to climb but the worst will take a bit longer. Maybe Coolidge, if he had run in 1928, could have prevented the Depression. He saw it coming and almost predicted at least the 1929 crash. I fear what is coming will be even worse.
Nothing, nothing Trump has ever said, tweeted, or written has ever been as bad, as divisive, as un-American as what Biden said in his Soul of America campaign speech in Philadelphia. Filled with lies, smears, and evil intent; the speech was hailed by the MSM as a triumph. What a blatant propaganda arm of the DNC..
To refresh our memories, here’s the transcript:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/us/politics/biden-speech-transcript.html
This was the speech where he accused 70 million Americans of being filleted with hate, eager for violence, and a danger to democracy. What an orator. What a patriot. (sarc) So reminiscent of Il Duce or Der Fuehrer. And yet some Republicans want to criticize and carp about Trump? Amazing!
It’s okay when they do it:
https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/our-democracy-not-our-constitution/
The stable genius’ mouth has quite often defied Einstinian speed limitation, while his brain is still working in the Newtonian frame.
If only he could get both parts of his anatomy following the same paradigm.