Trump as Lear, raging against the vast left-wing conspiracy
And I mean really really vast.
Many many people think that Trump’s gone past the point of no return with this quote:
“So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION?,” Trump wrote on Truth Social, the Twitter alternative that he founded.
“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,” he added. “Our great ‘Founder’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections.”
First I’ll observe that in the practical sense this was a case of Trump giving his enemies the rope with which to hang him, and they have gladly obliged. After all, what has been one of the most common refrains about Trump ever since he declared his candidacy in 2015? That he is a tyrant eager to suspend the Constitution. That is the way they framed January 6th, 2021 as well. This statement by Trump feeds into all of that. So it was stupid on that level; another case of Trump losing his touch in terms of the ability to skirt the line without quite going over it.
However, I see this as a continuation of Trump’s raging King Lear mode of which I’ve written before. Think about it. Trump had the most powerful and most stressful job in the world for four years – I mean that literally. All the while, they laughed at him and/or hated him, and did their best to bring him down through any means possible. Meanwhile, he was a very successful president in terms of what he actually did in the job, surprisingly so. I cannot even imagine the stress he was under all the time, and although he sometimes showed it he did not crack.
And then he lost the 2020 election after thinking he’d won it, and after those four long years of fighting against the extremely numerous and powerful forces arrayed against him. He has never forgotten and never forgiven. With the Twitter story, we now have even more evidence of what was done to him. Whether it’s a fraudulent election in terms of manufacturing votes, or merely blocking the truth and telling lies, it was terrible and he is enraged – deeply enraged and I actually believe heartbroken.
One of the things the left does best is to accuse the right of doing what the left is actually doing. That’s where Hillary Clinton comes in (the article is from February of 2016):
The “vast, right-wing conspiracy” that Hillary Clinton warned about in the 1990’s still exists, she confirmed on Wednesday evening — but now it’s out in the open and it’s “even better funded,” she said.
Clinton was asked about that infamous quote during a televised town hall hosted by CNN in Derry, New Hampshire.
“At this point it’s probably not correct to say it’s a conspiracy because it’s out in the open,” Clinton said. “There is no doubt about who the players are, what they’re trying to achieve… It’s real, and we’re going to beat it.”
Clinton first used that line in an interview with NBC’s Today Show in 1998 when talking about the political attacks that followed President Bill Clinton’s affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. “The great story here, for anybody willing to find it and write about it and explain it, is this vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president,” she said at the time.
And now there’s no question that a vast left-wing conspiracy successfully took Trump down in 2020. How can a person accept such massive injustice? Not only that, but such massive injustice with no redress?
I’ve said many times that with election fraud, it must be prevented because proving it is nearly impossible and remedying it after the fact is also impossible because there is not going to be a do-over in a presidential election. In addition, if there’s no fraud proven but only pressure by parties such as the FBI, the Constitution is mute on remedies – except impeachment and removal, which is a sort of one-size-fits-all remedy. However, those are political/legal acts of Congress requiring enormous agreement from both parties. In the current climate that will never happen to Biden, no matter what the offenses.
No wonder Trump is raging and searching for a remedy. But his questions and suggestions not only don’t provide a viable answer but tap into just about every criticism ever made of him. It has made his enemies ecstatic with glee, and I believe it shows that the years of persecution have taken their toll on him.
I’ll close with this from Lear:
Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drench’d our steeples, drown’d the cocks!
You sulph’rous and thought-executing fires,
Vaunt-couriers to oak-cleaving thunderbolts,
Singe my white head! And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Strike flat the thick rotundity o’ th’ world,
Crack Nature’s moulds, all germains spill at once,
That makes ingrateful man!
This is exactly what Trump should be saying. His enemies are going to trash him no matter what he says, so why not make it perfectly clear what exactly happened and how unjust it all is? Why should Trump have any faith in the system? Why should he encourage anyone else to have such faith?
As someone once said, “The Constitution is not a suicide pact.”
And I’m pretty sure Ace of Spades is in the same headspace as Trump:
https://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=402187
Mike
Excellent post and wonderful lines from Lear. At this time of such peril for our republic, one might recall some other wonderful lines from the great play:
“When we are born, we cry
That we are come
To this great stage of fools”.
The Democrats were, and still are, fully prepared to destroy the country in order to destroy Trump.
Which is where the Lear-Trump analogy breaks down.
That is, if in fact Nature was Lear’s enemy, and intended to destroy Lear, it had no plan to destroy itself.
(But then, Nature was not actually Lear’s enemy; it is merely the man’s convenient excuse…as he realizes, finally, that his Fool, and Cordelia, were right all along.)
I once had a conversation with my uncle in-law who was something of a history expert on politics. He mentioned that Pres. Thomas Jefferson was well aware of violating the constitution, but did it anyway. I’m not 100% certain, but I think the topic was the Louisiana purchase. Not that it would change my agreement with Neo that Trump’s statements were stupid and/or unhinged.
…To be sure, one might say that for the Democrats, Trump is merely THEIR excuse to destroy the country…which is why he must be constantly, viciously, disgustingly demonized “six way from Sunday”.
I’ll note that there is no means by which Trump could obtain the outcome he demands. It is a fantasy demand, not something actionable. Except via armed uprising, but it doesn’t look as if he’s asking for that.
Trump has always said things that are objectionable. But his actual actions as POTUS were, for the most part, excellent.
Barry,
We are the real target. The Democrat establishment is a hostile takeover. They detest this country and its citizens.
The constitution is a failure because it doesn’t specify what to do if a usurper gets in office who wasn’t really elected. Trunp is stating facts here.
TommyJay on December 5, 2022 at 4:07 pm said:
I once had a conversation with my uncle in-law who was something of a history expert on politics. He mentioned that Pres. Thomas Jefferson was well aware of violating the constitution, but did it anyway. I’m not 100% certain, but I think the topic was the Louisiana purchase. Not that it would change my agreement with Neo that Trump’s statements were stupid and/or unhinged.
My understanding is Jefferson thought it was unconstitutional, and considered having Congress review its constitutionality? And was advised to “just do it”.
Since FDR we haven’t followed the Constitution (commerce clause thing, allowing a massive government takeover). And he also did blatant violations, like banning gold and putting Japanese Americans in camps via EO.
circus bleacher sitter,
Not the Constitution’s fault. Judges and lawyers altered election law in violation of the Constitution. It’s the fault of modern Americans that the Constitution is no longer followed.
Barry Meislin:
The Lear/Trump analogy breaks down in many ways. The only reason I compare the two is the emotional reaction of enormous rage at injustice and having enemies triumph.
Why isnt there more rage at this piracy of the ship of state that is the question, to paraphrase hamlet
I am sympathetic to Trump, while at the same time I had hoped that he would exit gracefully once there was no longer any hope.
I agree with the essence of Neo’s remarks. If history were written honestly, he would be documented as a tragic figure, but a successful President.
There are many lessons to be learned from Trump’s experience. Unfortunately, the one that will likely prevail is the Left’s validation that they can take down most anyone who they target, provided they are sufficiently vicious.
I fear that there is not sufficient will to reform the election system. The present mess benefits too many of the people who control it.
I think rather of Prospero in “The Tempest,” his magic gone:
Now my charms are all o’erthrown,
And what strength I have’s mine own,
Which is most faint: now, ’tis true,
I must be here confined by you . . .
IrishOtter49:
Yes, and I forget to mention another terrible stress on Trump: they are determined to imprison him and his family through lawfare.
I think there are still a lot of people laboring under the misapprehension that we are now living under something resembling Constitutional order. I don’t know how we get out of this mess but we first have to acknowledge how we managed to get in it.
Our government and its institutions are hopelessly corrupt and there are vey few leaders from either party who seem to be particularly bothered by this state of affairs.
Instead we are told that we should just move on from corrupt intelligence agencies colluding with the media and big tech to censor information.
We are told to just move on from a stolen election while another election is stolen in plain sight.
We are told to just ignore the hundreds of political prisoners who have been jailed for almost two years without trial.
The current administration and its Deep State minions have violated almost every constitutional amendment except the one about quartering soldiers and I’m supposed to get upset about something Trump wrote on Truth Social?
Related, from Victor D. Hanson:
“If You Really Wanted To Destroy The United States, Then…”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/if-you-really-wanted-destroy-united-states-then
Hmm. So…is Victor Hanson also a “Lear”?
Who is HE raging against?
(Who are we all raging against?)
However we get out of this mess, the first move is pretty clearly “Lear exits stage right.”
Whatever one thinks of his presidency, Trump is now clearly more hindrance than help. He provides his enemies with the rope to hang him, true, but that rope also hangs us, and with us any chance to reverse the problems with the republic.
….see, if we give ’em Czecho-Slovakia, then….
Some years I ago I spent considerable time and effort conducting oral history interviews with veterans of the 192nd and 193rd Tank Battalions. Activated in November 1940, the two units were dispatched to the Philippines in November 1941, just prior to the outbreak of the Pacific War. Doomed from the start, cut off from the U.S. without any hope of reinforcement or relief, they and the rest of the Fil-American armed forces of which they were a part held out valiantly for nearly five months against the Japanese, finally surrendering in April 1942. Subsequent to their capitulation, these veterans suffered the literal tortures of the damned, first on that Calvary of pain and misery and death known as the Bataan Death March, and then, for more then three years, as prisoners and slaves of the Japanese. Each of these veterans were subject to the most massive and cruel injustices, physical and psychological torments, for which they effectively had no redress. I always asked my interviewees how they handled, in the war’s aftermath, their feelings concerning their wartime experiences — how they dealt with the anger and bitterness and knowledge that most of those responsible for the cruelties they suffered and endured would never be brought to justice. Their responses ran the gamut: in some instances they were life-affirming, in others they were profoundly depressing. And everything in between. On balance the only answer was: you either got past it or you didn’t. But you never forgot it. And you could never let go of it, not entirely.
Trump is not the cause of the mess we are in and his exit is not the solution. Trump is only a symptom of our country’s deep rot. The real problem is that it took a deeply flawed outsider like Trump, who wasn’t beholden to the political elite, to stand up against a corrupt system. A lot of people seem to think that if only Trump leaves we can get back to normal, as if all the corruption and rot that has been exposed never happened. There is no going back to normal without admitting that the rot exists. And a big part of that is admitting that Trump is right about the 2020 election. Too many people seem willing to ignore that.
What does one do about a stolen country
Donald Trump once again stepping on his own Johnson. As Ben Shapiro points out, the weekend story should have been about the breaking news about how Twitter covered up the Biden laptop burial…
…but no…
Instead we’re talking about Trump talking about suspending the constitution over his failed 2020 election.
My god, step aside already. Get out of our way.
Gregory Harper – Trump’s exit is not a solution, but it is a necessary precondition to a solution.
We lost that election and you see what arose from it to pretend this is otherwise and they intend to prevent any changing back see the bipartisan media cartel bill
And he also did blatant violations, like banning gold
That was authorized by statute. (You could argue the statute was not constitutional, of course).
Trump has a purpose with what he said.
And I don’t think it’s just venting.
The Left actually acts this way. The end justifies the means, including fraudulent elections.
Or a billion from ftx.
Or $500 million from Mark Zuckerberg.
So now the Legacy Corporate Main Stream Media wags its collective head and, more in sorrow than in anger, lectures us on how Trump is mistaken about the Constitution. As opposed to, say, intently discussing a cozy arrangement between a campaign, and then an Administration, organizing daily meetings to decide who to censor, in violation of the First Amendment’s right of free expression for citizens; and then by pressing the argument by vocally demanding a form of redress. On behalf of all their citizen customers.
Something tells me that these behaviors are not going to change – they will have to ‘be changed’. And who is willing to do that? Well….not the Administration and not the Legacy Corporate Main Stream Media, that’s glaringly obvious. Donald Trump is willing, for one.
And who is willing to abide by the results as they presently stand? We are – apparently. Sounds like a collective personal problem, doesn’t it?
Its always looking for the next new thing. The “after Trump”. Yep he’s the one that will turn it around. Always looking for the next King. Endowing him with the powers of Cincinnatus to fix it all. Only it never works that way. It was up to us collectively. We refuse to do the work necessary to maintain a Representative Republic. Sucks to be us.
We are not in a ‘functioning democracy’ should i cite the relevant lines from the wasteland?
Trump is shattering another Overton Window.
And as usual, it’s messy.
71% of Americans Say Our Elections Are Rigged
https://emeralddb3.substack.com/p/71-of-americans-say-our-elections
Barry Meislin:
VDH’s tone and his message are very very different.
They can lie and incite violence j 20 which is whitewashed and we cant even tell the truth albeit bluntly
He has a didactic tone but a vibrant message
More like a “Kassandra” who illuminated the dangerous corruption but who was not “believed”, or voted for, or defended, by the demos. I hope that Troy does not fall, this time.
Along with Neo, I view Trump these days as a tragic figure. He was a very good president, and yes, he was very badly treated, and yes, the 2020 election was “rigged” as Mollie Hemingway says.
When Trump first began his run in 2015, and for years thereafter, I would read that Trump said something or other awful. I would go to the source and read what he actually said, and almost all the time the leftist media either deliberately misquoted him or made the whole thing up. Sadly, that does not apply to this recent post of his. He said what he said, giving his many haters yet another supply of ammunition, this time not imaginary ammunition.
There is no going back to normal without admitting that the rot exists. — G. Harper
Just my opinion, but I think that some important people will have to do some serious jail time first.
Or maybe many jail sentences for the many smaller fish. In that case it’s possible that when the little people get the phone call or meeting with the VIP and get their instructions, they will stop and think first.
Unless something is done to stop the fraud, Trump has no chance of winning in 2024. Arizona’s recent election proved that. The 2024 election would just be stolen from Trump, just like the 2020 one was.
This explains Trumps laser focus since 2020 on election fraud rhetorically. He has moved the Overton window on Election fraud. 71% of Americans now believe elections are rigged. My guess this is double from 4 years ago.
And another clown raises his head, “Pick me, I did my part to stab the King (Lear)!”
https://redstate.com/carcand/2022/12/05/john-bolton-hints-at-2024-presidential-bid-against-donald-trump-n669343
Christie, Hogan, Bolton; at least the stooges could provide juvenile entertainment.
Kate:
Well put.
The Lear analogy is a better one that the Captain Queeg analogy that has been circulating
Still, as I recall the play, it didn’t relate any particular kingly accomplishments on the part of King Lear, whereas Trump has plenty of genuine presidential accomplishments to his credit.
Hmm…
71% is from Rasmussen Reports:
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/biden_administration/most_voters_share_gop_concerns_about_botched_arizona_election
And to my shock, youtube censored them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRhYD1feHG4
Another take and Trump’s clarification:
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/catherinesalgado/2022/12/05/trump-clarifies-statement-misrepresented-as-a-call-to-end-to-u-s-constitution-n1651031
A concerned conservative™ is no doubt agast and flummoxed that OMB has anything to say.
The “stooges” are the only reason Trump accomplished anything. Bill Barr is the only reason Trump didn’t face a BS obstruction claim from Mueller. The Federalist Society is the primary reason that Trump was able to nominate solid judges where other Republicans failed. Mitch McConnell is the reason those judges were confirmed (and his moves after Scalia’s death are arguably the only reason Trump was elected in the first place). McConnell and Paul Ryan are the reason that Trump’s tax bill and criminal justice reform bill saw the light of day. Jared and Ivanka are the reason for the Abraham Accords and the juggling of ventilators during COVID.
Now, all of the competent counselors are gone. Even Jared and Ivanka are out now. What we are seeing now is Trump with no one to save him from his worst instincts.
When I see how unfairly Trump has been treated, even after he left office, I wonder how many more people see it. Yes, Trump supporters (70 million or so) see it, but how many others? They (Dems, MSM, Hollywood, DOJ, FBI, State AGs, and more) have hounded him fulltime and unmercifully for seven years. They have gone after his family, friends, aides, and supporters. They are vindictive and vicious.
I’m an old, toothless lion roaring at the wind, but when I think about how monstrously unfair this has been, I wish I was David Banner and could release my anger and become a scary Hulk. Somehow, some way, someone has got to be held accountable for this.
Trump’s tormentors want to get him and anyone like him out of the way so we Deplorables won’t ever think we can stand up to them again. Trump has been like a raging bull in the arena. He has been too tough for the matadors, picadors, and banderilleros, but they have more resources than he has. They will not quit. And that really makes me angry.
You may see him as a stained candidate, but I see him as a man who has been wronged by a bunch of corrupt and power-seeking vultures who will not hesitate to do the same to anyone of us.
Trumpp may not win the nomination, but whoever is the nominee will be subjected to the same crap. We have to stand together and support whoever the nominee is. This kind of politics of personal destruction has got to stop.
Bauxite:
I disagree strongly. I give Trump credit for his accomplishments and criticize him for his failures. He has had many of the former, and just because he didn’t somehow do them 100% alone does not mean he shouldn’t be praised for doing them. He made his own decisions and was a leader on many many issues, particularly – to my surprise – foreign policy.
What we are seeing now is not Trump unbound. We are seeing Trump unbound after years of relentless and vicious persecution, and it has had an effect on him. That is really the point of this post. I am in basic agreement with JJ in the comment above this one.
The “stooges” are the only reason Trump accomplished anything. Bill Barr is the only reason Trump didn’t face a BS obstruction claim from Mueller.
No, he isn’t. Any person of integrity in that job would have scotched Andrew Weissman’s lawfare operation and might have drained out some of the pus in the department, actually investigated Epstein’s death, and taken an interest in challenging threats to ballot security in 2020.
The Federalist Society is the primary reason that Trump was able to nominate solid judges where other Republicans failed.
The Federalist Society has been around for 40 years. Neither Nixon, Ford, nor Bush the Elder took much of an interest in nominating solid judges, though you got a couple of solid judges out of them willy nilly. The set of vectors which put Sandra Day O’Connor on the court would not have had a different resultant had the Federalist Society been present. The Federalist Society was present in 1987 when Anthony Kennedy landed on the court; didn’t matter as what mattered was the Democratic Senate. John Roberts is a Federalist Society alum, btw. It’s been pointed out by Mollie Z. Hemingway that not only does Charles Schumer push Democratic judges, he also makes an effort on behalf of policy the base wants, something McConnell refuses to do.
(and his moves after Scalia’s death are arguably the only reason Trump was elected in the first place).
Thanks for the non sequitur.
McConnell and Paul Ryan are the reason that Trump’s tax bill and criminal justice reform bill saw the light of day.
Those were Paul Ryan’s shticks.
Looks like Al Sharpton is reverting to form.
“Al Sharpton blasts Trump, GOP for Ye-Fuentes dinner despite history of stoking anti-Semitic riots;
“The civil rights leader, one of the most prominent voices on the political left, has a controversial record when it comes to anti-Semitism.”—
https://justthenews.com/nation/extremism/al-sharpton-blasts-trump-gop-kanye-fuentes-dinner-despite-history-stoking
Oh well…. Guess it was only a matter of time…
(Remind me—Someone! Anyone!—when was the last time the good Reverend said anything critical about the sainted Farrakhan?…)
Heh…
‘ Calls for investigations grow over Katie Hobbs’ alleged use of Twitter censorship, 1A issues;
“What else did Katie Hobbs have removed?” asked Christina Bobb, attorney for Donald Trump for President 2024. “And how much censorship took place under her office?” ‘—
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/calls-investigations-grow-over-katie-hobbs-alleged-use-twitter-censorship
Time for the Left to RAGE, I guess!
(Not that they’ve really ever been shy…)
From the Pravda-on the-Hudson/Potomac File (cross-referenced with “Irony”):
in a column dripping with despair, an elegiac Victor D. Hanson targets America’s lamentably corrupt media…
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/victor-davis-hanson-how-corrupt-corrupt-media
…while in this curiously symmetrical “development”, Poland’s Prime Minister—seemingly not comprehending the goals and purpose of the EU—cautiously advises Europe to embrace Republican, DECENTRALIZED principles…
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/reject-centralist-tyranny-polish-pm-says-europeans-must-choose-republicanism
…even as “Biden”, seemingly not comprehending the goals and purpose of the American Republic “he” purportedly leads, enthusiastically promotes the EU’s centralizing AUTHORITARIAN principles…
+”BONUS”…well, of a sort…reflecting “The State of the Union” better than anything that “Biden” could mutter:
“Contradictions, Lies, And “I Don’t Recalls”: The Fauci Deposition”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/contradictions-lies-and-i-dont-recalls-fauci-deposition-transcript
And of course we are going to have a “NEW ELECTION”…in 2024. Trump cares nothing for the Constitution, or the rule of law, though he was the victim of lawless impeachment proceedings. In his own ego-centric way he’s become the mirror image of the Democrats. They are quite successfully undermining the Constitution for the sake their own perpetual power, Trump would do the same thing just to validate his opinion of himself at any cost.
The fact that two years after the election Trump still causes people to go insane, as evidenced by some posters, just astounds me. He was one of the best presidents we have had judging by the justices on the bench, economy metrics and relative peace. His cabinet was more diverse then anything the dems dream of. Yet, its points off for style and comparisons with King Lear. The election was rigged, but, the amount of insanity generated by a President who accomplished what he did is astounding. We are truly an unserious country.
Art Deco – So Jeff Sessions isn’t a person of integrity? Ok. Jeff Sessions is a good man who was hopelessly overmatched by Weissman, Comey, et al. Bill Barr is a good man who out-lawyered that crew on Trump’s behalf and was kicked to the curb for his troubles.
The Federalist Society was founded in 1982. So your references to Nixon and Ford are the real non sequiturs. Frankly Reagan and arguably H.W. Bush too because it took time to work through the post New Deal legal monoculture that existed at the time to nurture the careers of originalist lawyers and put them in positions from which they could be nominated to the SC. Kennedy had already been on the 9th Circuit for seven years when the Federalist Society was founded.
The go-to argument from Trump people, and even from the Trump campaign in 2016, was that we had to vote for Trump because of judges. McConnell created that issue. Its not a non sequitur to point that out now.
Would Trump have had the economy he did without Paul Ryan’s tax bill? I doubt it. And the criminal justice bill was most certainly not because of Ryan. That was all Trump’s idea, and Ryan and McConnell pushed it through Congress on Trump’s behalf.
Sessions fell for the same trick as ashcroft three years early the danchenko dossier was at fault comey controlled the agenda from the outset poisoning the well then came faucis special recipe and the insurgency waged by a pitiless former maoist terrorist from corporate boardrooms
Whitaker tried to excise this bug we saw what happened to himthe Court did not challenge a fundamental flaw in 2020 allowing the theft of the ship of state
I also looked up the relative ages of the current justices. Roberts gradulated from law school in 1979, pre-Federalist Society. Coney-Barrett, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh all graduated from law school in the 1990’s. Trump’s justices were the first Republican appointees to be part of the group whose careers had been supported from the beginning by the Federalist Society.
(Also, even if Roberts is a miss, he is a heck of a lot better as a miss than Brennen, Stevens, Souter, Blackmun, et al.)
And roberts let obamacare jnfection which had been secured by frauds in alaska and minnesota take hold and mcconnell was obamas helper in 2013
As well as this agregious assault on thr institution on marriage that leads us to phillips cake shop with friends like this what chance does the republic stand
Your job as a justice is to rightfully interpret the law not 5/10 but every times we see how despite their protestations about citizens united dems used superpacs in 2012 (thanks a lot bill maher) and used ‘dark money’ more effectively in 2020 and 2023
I am taking that John Bolton candidacy as a joke, or perhaps as a fund-raising ploy. No, Mr. Bolton, no.
No pasaran
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/12/05/gregory-wrightstone-reasonable-concessions-to-climate-hysteria-lack-reason/
Come on Boxy, you can certainly defend Weissmann, Schiff, Vindmann, and Judge Ahab, as honorable public servants who have been maligned and smeared by the minions of Orange? (farce)
You must continue and praise the FBI and the DOJ in their selfless yet measured investigations of Orange-infected-insurrectionists and domestic terrorists (aka parents speaking at school boards). Your work is not done, no rest for the wicked.
“Sadly, that does not apply to this recent post of his. He said what he said, giving his many haters yet another supply of ammunition, this time not imaginary ammunition.” Kate
Are we living in a time where whether it is imaginary ammunition or not matters? Think Joe Biden and his many idiotic words and behaviors as President. With a willing infrastructure “what difference does it make”? Sadly many of our fellow citizens like it just the way it is. Trump’s greatest achievement for me was showing the emperor has no clothes–our government. We are living the reality of the disappearing of the rule of law here in Los Angeles, both on the street and throughout the government infrastructure. Our national problems are moral and spiritual–the political realm manifests the symptoms.
I have no criticism of Trump, I couldn’t put up with what he has endured in a million years and wouldn’t wish it on anyone I cared about.
om – This may come as a shock to you, but it is possible to be repulsed by bad behavior from the left (Schiff, Vindmann, Garland, et al.) and the right (Trump et al.). It is just not the case that we have to put up with Trump’s clown show in order to oppose Weissmann and crew.
The truth will set you free.
(Also, re your post from 11:26 pm last night – are you really running the “he didn’t want to throw out the whole Constitution, just the parts he wants to ignore” defense? Tell me, truly, what is the difference between that and a “living Constitution” progressive?)
Art Deco – So Jeff Sessions isn’t a person of integrity? Ok. Jeff Sessions is a good man who was hopelessly overmatched by Weissman, Comey, et al. Bill Barr is a good man who out-lawyered that crew on Trump’s behalf and was kicked to the curb for his troubles.
He was kicked to the curb for incompetence and feebleness. This isn’t that difficult.
The Federalist Society was founded in 1982. So your references to Nixon and Ford are the real non sequiturs.
No, you’re pretending to not understand the reference, but I’ll play along and explain it. The Federalist Society is neither necessary nor sufficient to produce satisfactory judicial appointments. The ‘failures’ of other Republican presidents were a consequence of them putting little effort into the task, and if you don’t believe me I suggest you read John Dean’s account of how Supreme Court nominees were vetted by Nixon staff. In Reagan’s case, the failures were a consequence of facing a Democratic Senate (in 1987) and of Sandra Day O’Connor’s calculated deceptions when interviewed by Reagan’s staff. The Federalist Society made no difference there. I have no clue why you think anyone would be fooled into thinking the date on John Roberts’ degree is of significance in this discussion.
Frankly Reagan and arguably H.W. Bush too because it took time to work through the post New Deal legal monoculture that existed at the time to nurture the careers of originalist lawyers and put them in positions from which they could be nominated to the SC. Kennedy had already been on the 9th Circuit for seven years when the Federalist Society was founded.
I suggest you consult Jonathan Turley or Mary Ann Glendon if you wish to know something about the evolution of the culture of law schools. Suffice it to say, a career like Robert Bork’s or Alexander Bickel’s would not be possible today accept at an oddball institution like Pepperdine. (See Glendon’s account of faculty opinion as she knew it ca. 1960 – Wm. O. Douglas was considered a scandal).
The go-to argument from Trump people, and even from the Trump campaign in 2016, was that we had to vote for Trump because of judges. McConnell created that issue. Its not a non sequitur to point that out now.
That would be the argument in favor of any Republican candidate and the judges were not Trump’s signature issue. No, McConnell did not ‘create the issue’. The issue has been there for over 50 years.
Would Trump have had the economy he did without Paul Ryan’s tax bill?
Probably. Fiscal policy has a weak effect on economic performance. The tax code places a drag on economic performance because sectoral preferences generate malinvestment. In Congress, an interest in scraping out sectoral preferences is inversely related to seniority. Another historical pathology in the tax code has been stratospheric marginal rates, a problem actually addressed during the period running from 1981-86. A capon like Paul Ryan was never going to take on sectoral preferences and doing so would be completely antagonistic to Bitc* McConnnell’s modus operandi as a politician. It was never a Trump issue, which was too bad.
I doubt it. And the criminal justice bill was most certainly not because of Ryan. That was all Trump’s idea, and Ryan and McConnell pushed it through Congress on Trump’s behalf.
An antagonism to punishment of offenders is a libertarian signature and of no interest to the base.
Yes isnt it funny how gascon avoided accountability and he extended that to konnech which of course wasnt involved in any skullduggery
Those that bandied about thd ‘afghan bounties’ but were silent after the 13 dead at the bastion gate
but it is possible to be repulsed by bad behavior from the left (Schiff, Vindmann, Garland, et al.) and the right (Trump et al.).
It’s also possible to sensibly weigh the significance of ‘bad behavior’.
While an overly-academic construction is not characteristic of Trump, it could be read to say that this fraud allowed for the dismissal of the Constitution–by the democrats. [ See Pennsylvania for one example] Thus the bogus result. Therefore, we need a do-over.
DeSantis 2024.
Art Deco – I think you’re full of it, but the whole argument is largely moot anyway. Trump is setting himself on fire before our eyes. It really doesn’t matter whether that’s because of who Trump has been all along or whether it is because he’s having a some sort of Shakespearean breakdown in response to the injustices against him. I suspect its a “yes and” proposition rather than “either or,” frankly.
The only thing that remains now is for Trumpers to decide whether they are going accept half a loaf with a DeSantis-type figure or burn the whole country down by allowing Democrats to take full control in 2024.
The dems are burning this country and mcconnell brings the pitch
They dont care who they put in which seat begich franken warren their job is to destroy every stone every plank this country is built o
Stylistically i prefer desantis but thats not important right now with the media cartel bill with the amnesty being proposed i dont know if we can get back to where we were in 2020
Trump is not fit to be president. He is incredibly stupid and has learned very little if at all since 2016. Frankly I am getting a visceral dislike of him and his Forever Trump fanboys.
The boxy concerned conservative™ has now shifted his focus to those Orange-tainted miscreants who will cause the destruction of the country, not the “bad behavior” of those naughty misguided leftists. Thank goodness we have the concerned conservative™ on our side ( sarc).
Bauxite,
Here’s my favorite Jewish joke:
Two Jews are in front of a firing squad.
As the officer starts giving orders, one of the Jews starts praying, loudly.
The other Jew turns to him and hisses “Shut up, you idiot! You’ll get us in trouble!”
The relevance of this joke to your comments on this forum should be obvious. In case it isn’t, let me spell it out for you as plainly as I can, without snark or scare quotes.
There is now ample evidence to conclude that the political class, the permanent federal bureaucracy (but especially the intelligence community and the national security apparatus), a corrupted and/or cowardly judiciary, and Big Tech represent the most serious threat to the freedom, security, and prosperity of the American people since World War II. Indeed, this unholy alliance has managed to replicate most of the counts in the indictment against the British Crown contained in the Declaration of Independence, while adding some modern-day enhancements.
In the face of this existential threat to our freedoms, our civil liberties, our property, and our persons, your preferred solution is to entrust this country to the same people who are responsible for the current state of affairs. At the same time, you vilify the character and denigrate the accomplishments of the one person who has put his fortune, his freedom, and perhaps his sanity on the line to oppose it. I find your selective outrage misdirected, but have to thank you for making absolutely clear where you stand.
BrooklynBoy,
There’s a lot of visceral dislike going around. I confess to having a visceral dislike of people in positions of authority who have presided over and personally profited from the destruction of this country and the erosion of our freedoms. Some of them have even helped things along. As for your comment about “Forever Trump fanboys”, I don’t see a lot of them here. I see people who are willing to recognize Trump’s achievements in the face of unprecedented and frankly illegal subversion while lamenting his (understandable, alas) descent into rage and bitterness. We’ll see if DeSantis has even a fraction of Trump’s courage and fighting spirit. I hope for the sake of the country that he does.
Either an election is 100% free and fair, or it is unfair. If unfair, it was stolen – Trump is correct and, for two years, has been correct. Despite Barr, McConnell, Bush and all GOPe Trump-haters.
Looks like a mistake – but he clearly did NOT say Republicans should ignore the Constitution, tho he also did not clearly say that Democrats, after massive Dem fraud, are already ignoring the Constitution.
We’re talking about it tho – more than most Reps did before the midterm, but it’s now clear the FBI helped censor the truth.
Neo’s prior post included a bit on the “wink and nod” ability to say something, which means doing something illegal in context, but allows deniability. Trump is sort of doing this now, as well, tho it is genuinely ambiguous, as is his recent explanation:
[my retyping his tweet]
The Constitution is quiet on what to do after an election is stolen, but “certified” in a legal, but morally unjust fashion. Redo the election? This is why we need Voter ID and honest elections – no solution is “just” after an unjust stolen election.
Also, all 4 of the FISA judges were accepting FBI “wink & nod” half-truths/ mostly lies in granting FBI power to spy on Trump. All such judges should be impeached for obstruction of justice and abdication of duty and misuse of power.
The judges knowingly allowed & empowered the FBI to do illegal spying, tho their defense of “FBI lied to us” is not borne out in the wimpy request. Tho, if they really felt they were lied to, they are incompetently ignorant – but I believe they were deliberately dishonest.
All Republicans should be repeating that Democrats support fraud in elections, and Democrats support censorship of the truth to steal elections. Few Reps do that, and the Dems call them “election deniers”. They should be calling such Dems: “fraud supporters” & “election thieves” & “censors against truth”, among other phrases.
Where’s the great Trump label for such Dems?
I think you’re full of it, but the whole argument is largely moot anyway.
I’m on the level. You’re not.
Trump was a necessary monkey wrench to demonstrate the state of politics/media. Now we need to regrind the gears to run correctly.
Hubert” “As for your comment about “Forever Trump fanboys”, I don’t see a lot of them here.”
I do. There used to be tons of them here, and they’d be vicious about it and attack you personally if you dared question his orangeness.
Oh yeah, DeSantis couldn’t fail to do better,
Harry: “Oh yeah, DeSantis couldn’t fail to do better”. Better than Trump? I hope with all sincerity that you are right about that. My fear is that if he shows even the slightest hint of following in Trump’s footsteps–in regard to challenging and pruning back the IC and the surveillance state, for example, or exposing corruption and abuse of office in D.C.–he will face exactly what Trump faced: relentless lawfare and subversion from his own party, with his family’s livelihood and his own liberty at stake. Of course this assumes that DeSantis could prevail in the first place against our joke of an election system.
I trust that I have argued my viewpoint without engaging in personal, ad hominem attacks against fellow commenters. I’m not a fan of that kind of thing, but I’m also not a fan of mincing words. Anyway, thanks for engaging.
Hubert – Making a change requires power. Gaining power requires winning elections.
It’s really that simple.
If the plan involves nominating Trump or nominating MAGA candidates who want to relitigate the 2020 election, that’s as good as voting for the progressive Democrat, because that’s who you’re going to elect. And that doesn’t make me a concerned conservative ™. It makes me a conservative who is sick and tired of living under progressive governance because of the GOP nominating unelectable MAGA candidates.
I sort of support VDH’s explanation of Trump as a tragic figure in the “Shane” model. He is the final result of the TEA Party movement, which was successfully suppressed by Obama and Holder. They used every power of government to destroy them and McConnell was right there helping. Sarah Palin was a sort of “John the Baptist” precursor of Trump. She was destroyed successfully. I don’t know if all the lawfare efforts to destroy Trump will succeed. Personally, I think the country is on the pathway to a collapse, either economic or a lost war. Both seem to be objectives of the Harvard grad students who are running our country.
“Modern Monetary Theory” is the path to the former. The insane hostility to Russia while China hollows out our country is the other.
Yes, I was a Trump “fanboy”, as you “Life Long Republicans” put it but I think Trump is now too wounded, plus obsessed with 2020, to be considered a serious candidate.
Hubert:
DeSantis has already faced those things and will face more if he declares in 2024. It doesn’t matter; any GOP candidate will face them. He seems pretty tough to me.
R. Cook:
I’ve not seen any posters here who are “insane” concerningTrump. Some have come to really hate him and find him destructive. That’s not “insane,” anymore than still liking him very much is insane.
Neo: he’ll have to be. He’s been shown the instruments. Now he has to decide if he’s up for the fight. It could mean his personal destruction and the destruction of his family. If he runs.
Bauxite: “It makes me a conservative who is sick and tired of living under progressive governance because of the GOP nominating unelectable MAGA candidates.” You and I both. But we have been living under progressive governance precisely because the electable candidates you favor aren’t up to the job. In fact, most of them have been presiding over or abetting this country’s slide into progressive governance. That’s the point you seem unwilling to recognize, along with Trump’s very real–remarkable, in fact–accomplishments. I know you despise the man on a personal level, but give him credit for what he was able to do. And whether you approve or not, there is a large and hungry market for MAGA. You have written here about the folly of driving away voters. How on earth does it make sense to throw away 70+ million votes because you don’t like the guy who got them, or his program?
Agreed, Mike, on Sarah Palin as “John the Baptist”, which would make Trump “You Know Who”. I have a Christian never-Trumper RINO friend whom I love to tweak with allusions of that sort. If he would only let the Orange Man into his heart, he’d be so much happier. Behold also the persecution of J6ers, much like that of early Christians. The TDS afflicted should additionally consider that if they strike Trump down, he’ll become more powerful than they can possibly imagine. MAGAverse spiritual metaphors are endless.
If they had the capacity to be patient, never-Trumpers would realize that DJT’s age makes the next few years his last gasp. But alas, this is not possible, for they are deranged.
Hubert:
DeSantis has already experienced quite a bit of that and has stood up to it well. He’s very smart and aware. You may not have noticed, but it’s been really bad, including people discussing using lawfare to try him for kidnapping because of his shipping out the illegal immigrants to other states. They may still try to do it.
Also comparisons to Hitler, You know, the usual.
I don’t know whether he will run. But if he does, he knows what he faces and has decided to face it.
}}} In the current climate that will never happen to Biden, no matter what the offenses.
Indeed, a clearly unfaked video of Biden sexually fondling a 6yo girl while bragging about all the times he sold secrets to China and all the deals he made with Ukraine and other countries at the USA’s expense, and the left would vote for him over Jesus returned doing obvious miracles with an (R) after his entry.
Bauxite,
Kari Lake was one of the best candidates this election cycle. The Democrats were able to win with dead candidates, marginally functional candidates, and candidates unwilling to debate.
We ain’t turning this around with RINOs.
}}} Since FDR we haven’t followed the Constitution (commerce clause thing, allowing a massive government takeover). And he also did blatant violations, like banning gold and putting Japanese Americans in camps via EO.
TBH, the reason why I classify Grover Cleveland as the most underrated PotUS, as well as the last Truly Great PotUS, is that he was, literally, the LAST PotUS who truly understood the Limits of Government.
Not a one since has demonstrated that, even the ones I do like and respect, such as Teddy, Coolidge, and Reagan. And yes, even Trump.
Unfortunately, all this started with Teddy, a Republican. He gave in to the Progressive idea that things should be “fixed” by government. He created the first of the modern 3-letter Federal Bureaucracies. He built up the military (not that I disagree with it, but it is pertinent), and it was on his watch that the most seriously negative components of the Constitutional Amendments developed or occurred — The direct election of Senators and the Income Tax. Neither were completed during his term, but both initiated and gained steady ground.
Cleveland was Teddy’s defacto predecessor (from the wiki):
======
In 1887, Cleveland issued his most well-known veto, that of the Texas Seed Bill. After a drought had ruined crops in several Texas counties, Congress appropriated $100,000 (equivalent to $3,015,926 in 2021) to purchase seed grain for farmers there. Cleveland vetoed the expenditure. In his veto message, he espoused a theory of limited government:
I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people. The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.
That is, really, the last time a PotUS really showed that he understood the proper limits to government.
Unfortunately, all this started with Teddy, a Republican. He gave in to the Progressive idea that things should be “fixed” by government. He created the first of the modern 3-letter Federal Bureaucracies. He built up the military (not that I disagree with it, but it is pertinent), and it was on his watch that the most seriously negative components of the Constitutional Amendments developed or occurred — The direct election of Senators and the Income Tax. Neither were completed during his term, but both initiated and gained steady ground.
1. Why do you have a government if it does not fix things?
2. No, the first of the regulatory commissions was the Interstate Commerce Commission, founded in 1887.
3. The agencies created during the Roosevelt Administration (instituted by Congress, not the President) were the ancestors of the Food and Drug Administration and the Food Safety and Inspection Service of the USDA. These were responses to two social conditions: (1) the expansion of interstate traffic in foodstuffs and pharmaceuticals and (2) the increasingly esoteric content of what was sold to people to consume.
4. Whether good or bad, the constitutional amendments which provided for the income tax and the direct election of Senators were forwarded to the states for ratification after Roosevelt had left office (and not ratified by sufficient states until his successor had left office).
5. As late as 1929, the ratio of military expenditure to domestic product was 0.01.
it fixes things like a taxidermist, or the one who spays animals, the government became a leviathan and now lords over every factor of life,
you think the state legislatures would have come up with a liz warren, or a richard blumenthal on their own, to be ecumenical,
same with the national security state, how well has it done to protect the lives and property of Americans, and how much has been unaccountable empire building, nsa cia fbi, there was something to yardleys complain about the black chamber, maybe truman’s about the company and its foreign adventurism and i’m sure someone might have had a point about hoover, fast forward 50 years and you have a clapper, a brennan, a wray, you can just shuffle the cards,
The Deep State is so pervasive and so entrenched and long possessed of DC and their Fed apparatus, who else is completely outside their ring fencing D-fenced insiders to lead the defenestration of the Coup Teams than Trump?
So concludes the young Ian — at then end of the second #Twitter Files, live streaming group chat, assessing why the second doc drop is delayed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRhO570nGf8
These group of young cyberhonchos are on the case — committed to reviewing the next tranche as it developed.
They ar committed to open society ideals and making it work.
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“DeSantis has already experienced quite a bit of that and has stood up to it well.”
No, he really hasn’t.
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3862
That’s a Quinnipiac University poll that finds 36% of voters overall and 41% of Independent voters “haven’t heard enough” about Ron DeSantis to even have an opinion about him. I think that’s a pretty good indication of how relatively little attention (positive or negative) DeSantis has gotten from the legacy media.
I think DeSantis might hold up fairly well when the guns really get turned on him but, Neo, you need to drop this delusion that he’s experienced ANYTHING like what he’ll get if he’s the GOP nominee.
Mike
MBunge:
He’s gotten plenty of negative attention from the press – but most people weren’t paying attention. Including you, apparently.
One of the reasons it didn’t get much traction is that he countered it effectively. But of course if he ran for president in 2024 he’d get tons more attention – that is obvious.