Interesting. When I heard this theory a few years ago it seemed highly plausible, but I am not under the impression it is accepted by the majority of geologists. I’ll have to research this a bit more.
At 3:00 the narrator states, “It was called ‘Lake Missoula’.” No it wasn’t. It “is” called “Lake Missoula.” Who knows what the natives (if there were any there 15,000 years ago) called that body of water?
The China protests have TOTALLY disappeared from all the news feeds I look at. I even went to MSNBC, yahoo, etc. Anyone have any idea of what has happened in less than 12 hours??
Just another open-thread comment about something I read.
The Canadian retailer, Simons, is promoting the government’s assisted-suicide program with a television commercial (https://tinyurl.com/4an3vr5b). I’ve read that the video has now gone viral.
According to Wikipedia, Simons specializes in selling fashionable clothing and home decor for men and women in their thirties and forties. In the Simons commercial, the young woman who’s chosen to die, with the help of her government, is the kind of customer targeted by Simons. This murky mix of fashion, consumerism, euthanasia, and government control is troubling. Does it define Canadian Marxism of the Trudeau/Castro breed?
I’m not opposed to assisted suicide for terminal patients in great pain, but a government that promotes this service(?) is terribly dangerous. Slippery slopes abound.
Kind of like the damn that burst that formed the Mediterrean Sea.
Wonder if “Biden” will be able to “persuade” the providers to head Musk off at the pass…nip him in the bud…though it will probably be easier for the DOJ/FBI/NSA/CIA to deploy the old DOS-attack trick…24/7.
(That is if the SHUT-HIM-DOWN Brigade can’t get him for not paying enough income tax 20-30 years ago or arrest him for being nasty to his former MIL…but which one?)
File under: “Hackers for Democracy!”
Kind of like the damn that burst that formed the Mediterrean Sea.
Too, a possible metaphor of the “white paper” revolution arising across China. Moreover, catastrophic floods seem to have been a frequent pivot point in Chinese political change, indicating some failure of the mandate of heaven: how then with sweeping contagion?
The Lake Missoula floods are fully accepted as the cause for the Channeled Scabland of eastern WA. There are glacial dropstones (erratics) in the Willamette Valley of OR, as well.
In fairness, given the extremely long geological history of the Earth (4.5 gigayears), I seriously doubt that was Earth’s worst megaflood. Even if you don’t consider tsunami generated by large bolide impacts in the ocean as “floods”, it’s a virtual certainty that even larger outburst megafloods occurred at other points in the past. For example, it’s believed that Earth has frozen over completely a few times in the past. Imagine the gargantuan ice damns that may have formed during the thaws after such a “Snowball Earth” period, trapping small oceans of water across some primordial super continent. The scale the resulting outburst flood in such a scenario would be insane.
I grew up in the Channeled Scablands; what happened there is very very obvious simply by looking around. The Ice Age floods have been generally accepted by geologists for at least 40 years now….
And when I meet geologists, which happens more often than you might expect, they know exactly where I’m from and we have something to talk about.
Thanks, Barry. I always check the DM, but the story must have been way down.
Tanks. Well, we knew what the response was going to be.
Nonapod:
Unfortunately evidence of such floods older or bigger tends to get erased. Part of the Missoula Floods story has to do with the concepts of Gradualism and Catastrophism (all processes that are seen today can explain geologic history given enough time (4.5 billion years) as opposed to cataclysmic events (Noah’s Flood as the worst example)). Geologists can be a contentious lot. Arguing about catastrophic events; floods, bolide impacts, plate tectonics, and even whether BIPOCs don’t pursue careers in geology because of the stigma associated with rock picks (the pointy hammer).
As a aside, petroleum geologists have noted that sea level goes up and down quite a bit over 100s of million years. Glaciers come and glaciers go as do continental ice sheets. Heresy, must be ignored. Geologists need funding, so politics enters in.
sdferr, thanks for the link! Interesting youtube channel.
om, I must be confusing this with something else. First I heard of the cataclysmic flood theory of abrupt erosion was a guy on Joe Rogan’s podcast and he, Joe and another guest mentioned several times that geologists viewed him and his theory as rogue. As I wrote, it made a lot of sense to me. Maybe I’m confusing this event with a different geologic event, but an ice dam near Utah/Montana is what I remember.
This is undoubtedly a dumb question, but why wasn’t the water behind the ice dam frozen? Why was the dam ice but the lake liquid water? And why doesn’t this happen in the fjords of Norway and Finland, which are used as examples in the video?
Because it happens deep inland rather than at the coast
In a word, volume, Rufus. Freezing all that volume in Lake Missoula would have required more cold than possible at that time. The surface might have iced over from time to time depending on the extent of winter cold, but never the depths.
The scale and power of natural forces should make us a little more humble yet we think we can master it effortlessly
Thats is part of thd folly in the gaea hypothesis
No folly.
They’re just using it as an excuse to gain more and more power.
(Though perhaps THAT’s their folly…. Yep, they should reread their Classics… That’ll do it!)
Folly in the premise if the earth is this great organism what can us puny humans do
You can guess as to the frequency if asteroid impacts on the earth by looking at the moon. Everyone of these striking our oceans (78%) would have caused spectacular tsunamis miles high. These would have rolled into our heartland hundreds of miles from all directions.
Well the atmosphere slows the speed and impact of the objects
physicsguy– Apropos of events in China, the latest is that the regime is blaming a guy who went for a half-hour jog last August: “Chinese health officials have claimed an unmasked runner infected nearly 40 people with COVID after taking a half-hour jog through a park — despite experts worldwide downplaying the risk of outdoor spread. . . . In the November report, the Chinese Centers for Disease Control and Prevention claimed that ‘Patient Zero’ jogged through a local park in the Chongqing municipality back in August and potentially exposed the virus to approximately 2,836 people and infected 39 with the virus.”
I’m waiting for the CDC to blame the baseball postseason for an uptick in U.S. COVID cases– after all, the local Atlanta team didn’t win the WS this year.
I see no reason why the concepts of Gradualism and Catastrophism cannot coexist. I have personally witnessed a “catastrophic” flood on a much, much smaller scale. Still, it was very impressive.
I used to hike in a river canyon just outside Chattanooga, TN. (If you’re interested, it is called Suck Creek canyon”) Suck Creek is a small stream that flows down off of the Cumberland Plateau and is normally small enough to wade in. However, one day in August 1982, we had two very powerful thunderstorms back to back that dumped a huge amount of rain onto the plateau. Suck creek turned into a raging torrent. It was strong enough to obliterate a pretty substantial highway bridge and move house-sized boulders downstream. It also noticeably widened the canyon. The event lasted less than a day.
Barry Meislin said, “They’re just using it as an excuse to gain more and more power.”
Well, it looks as if the EU version of tyranny is marching across the Netherlands: Despite massive nationwide farmers’ protests almost five months ago, the Dutch government plans to shut down thousands of farms to comply with the European Union’s demands. “The Dutch government plans to buy and close down up to 3,000 farms near environmentally sensitive areas to comply with EU nature preservation rules,” the British daily Telegraph confirmed on Monday. . . . The state-backed “emission reduction” drive in the Netherlands is part of a more extensive EU climate campaign as Brussels doubles down on its radical globalist agenda despite a record rise in food and fuel prices across the Continent. The UK’s Telegraph further reported: The Netherlands is attempting to cut down its nitrogen pollution and will push ahead with compulsory purchases if not enough farms take up the offer voluntarily. . . . Faced with a government-backed climate onslaught, Dutch farmers are organizing themselves politically. They have fielded a new political party called the Boer Burger Beweging (BBB), or the Farmer-Citizen Movement.
Needless to say, the Grauniad and other lefty European newspapers are worried that the Dutch deplorables’ movement might spread, as German farmers supported their Dutch neighbors during the summer protests.
Did the narrator really say this??
OMG, he will be in very deep sh&t with the greenies and wacko enviros. He is sure to be ‘ghosted” by all his (now former) friends and by the enviro Nazis on social media.
After all, “natural” climate change – which lasted about 3 billion years – came to a screeching halt in about 1979 or so when climate “scientists” were screaming about the coming ice age (look it up, folks).
Today of course, climate change is ONLY the result of human activity and of course this applies to any changes in climate on nearby planets as well, such as on Mars.
I don’t know what’s been happening in China during the last twelve hours, but I often check “Asia Times” for the bigger picture. No matter the topic, their writers always look for an anti-American slant, so I try to keep that in mind. Even so, it’s an alternative to the standard woke American Marxist news media.
And here’s a link to an article, published today, about how the protests have accelerated changes in China’s zero-covid policy: https://tinyurl.com/3p2vnpme
Here are three paragraphs that do a good job of summarizing the changes:
“The traditional Chinese vaccines such as Sinovac proved not only far less effective against the original Covid variants, but nearly totally ineffective against omicron and incapable of mitigating infection severity. As omicron hit, China was left without defenses other than lockdown affecting hundreds of millions of people.
The plan is to concentrate all efforts on treatment of the disease – minimizing deaths rather than pursuing ultimately futile measures of prevention, which have become a major economic and political liability.
During his early November visit to Beijing, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz took along 12 CEOs of major German companies, among them Ugur Sahin, head of the Mainz-based BioNTech vaccine maker. That was hardly an accident. German-Chinese collaboration in implementation of a key element in China’s new Covid policy is in the works.”
In other words:
1. De-emphasize lockdowns.
2. Emphasize treatment to reduce deaths.
3. Abandon futile policy of zero infections.
4. Work with German pharmaceutical companies to implement mRNA vaccination program.
5. Implication would be that Chinese Sinovac vaccine would be phased out. Uncertain about this.
re. Old lakes. Here is a youtube presentation of Lake Bonneville flood some 17K years back. Same idea, same neighborhood: glacier melt forms huge lake, unknown geologic event breaks the dam (earthen) allowing lake to flood north into what is now Snake River drainage.
It appears that the remains of that lake are the Bonneville salt flats, and Utah and Great Salt lakes. Humans today are trying to figure out a way to stop the Salt Lake from shrinking. Actually its one of the last puddles of the bigger lake of years ago.
Kari Lake has dropped off the cliff of the 24 hour news cycle. Here is an update by Lake on the situation.
According to her, the election must be certified for her lawsuit to move forward.
The absurdity of the Maricopa election is highlighted, but given a Maricopa judge refused to extend voting hours even though the malfunctioning printers/tabulators was an obvious impediment to voting, I’m skeptical her lawsuit will gain traction.
While a Georgia judge overruled clear state law about early voting, I don’t see any evidence of conservative judges wanting to get near election disputes.
As one Maricopa judge said that “show many a voter that was not allowed to vote”, the bar is very high.
It would be interesting to have a redo in Maricopa county to validate the botched election. Not happening. Not good for the future either. Hope I’m wrong.
My immediate reaction to ‘biggest flood EVAH’ was to think of the Mediterranean, too. On the other hand, maybe they said the ‘biggest flood in human history’ which is closer to the truth, since the Zanclean flood was 5.3 million years back.
Although historians would probably argue that Lake Missoula was from pre-history, even if humans inhabited the shores. Or maybe ‘pre-history’ is a concept that is currently out of fashion; it’s an American video aimed at lay people full of metric measurements.
McConnell does it again. He has never learned anything. Hurting other Republicans doesn’t help us win anything at any level. Hurts during elections. Hurts getting laws passed. Hurts all the time in every way. Reagan understood. Don’t beat up your own team.
When W made a terrible nomination, conservatives revolted. W was completely gutted as president and incapable of getting anything done the rest of his term. Democrats understand this. They care about winning. They rally around other Democrats no matter how nasty, vile, or flawed. They care about getting the job done no matter how messy or ugly.
Republicans in DC don’t understand it because they don’t care about winning. They care about protecting their grift, their rice bowls, their cocktail party invitations and their moral vanity and preening.
Politics is a zero sum power game. You are either winning or you are losing. There are no moral victories. No honor. No morality.
Politics is about who gets to use violence in society. There are no Queensberry rules. By now, everyone knows there are no laws, either. No constitution. You either win or you get screwed. It’s a street fight, but with less honor.
We are fighting for the survival of America. Figure out whose team you are on. And stop shooting our own guys in the back.
And Libertarians better figure out soon that they are no shows in the existential fight. Refusing to fight back against evil because you might get your hands dirty is flat out cowardice.
The left is perfecting the use of the judiciary to advance their agenda. The left is attempting to “Alex Jones” the former President.
…”If former President Trump disrupted the certification of the electoral vote count, as plaintiffs allege here, such actions would not constitute executive action in defense of the Constitution,” wrote Sullivan, who was appointed to the federal bench by then-President Bill Clinton in 1994.
“For these reasons, the court concludes that former President Trump is not immune from monetary damages in this suit.”
________
“Sullivan, though, added Trump’s response to the 2020 and 2022 elections show the former president still could “pose a very substantial risk in the future to plaintiffs’ fundamental right to vote.”
“President Trump continues to spread false claims about the 2022 elections and continues to attempt to pressure officials into nullifying the election results: Plaintiffs extensively allege the efforts of former President Trump and his allies as recently as March 2022 to get state officials to overturn the election results; to endorse and provide financial support to candidates for office who supported his false claims of election fraud; all while fundraising for the 2024 presidential election,” the judge wrote.”
“The NAACP and MWRO sued Trump in late 2020 for his efforts to overturn the results of the presidential election, specifically for “disenfranchising black voters in Michigan” by pressuring state officials not to certify election results.”
The Sandy Hook plaintiffs were awarded $1 billion against Alex Jones. What might be the award against President Trump— $1billion, $2 billion?
It seems so farfetched as to warrant a chuckle. But the left never jokes.
“Well the atmosphere slows the speed and impact of the objects”
Not enough to matter, if the object is large or dense enough. “Kinetic energy is directly proportional to the mass of the object and to the square of its velocity: K.E. = 1/2 m v2”
I love to learn more of the Bretz flood, but please Lord let it be from a straightforward geology professor and not from this overdramatized arm-waving dude.
Insufficiently Sensitive:
Here is a start.
Ice Age Floods, Lake Missoula, Bonneville Flood and the Columbia River Basalts
We spend half the year living at the bottom of what was Glacial Lake Missoula. The ice plugs were right where the Clark Fork River exits from the Cabinet mountains, right before you get to Clark Fort, ID, about 30 miles east of Sandpoint (up ID/MT 200), pretty close to the MT/ID border. Our house is almost exactly 50 miles up river from there, so in the deeper part of the lake.
Normally, the Clark Fork runs into Lake Pend O’Reille, and exits as the Pend O’Reille river (near Sandpoint), which loops into Canada, to connect into the Columbia. But that wasn’t what happened when the ice dams broke. There isn’t that much elevation between the Clark Fork and Pend O’Reille, and the Coeur d’Alene/Spokane River drainage. When you drive it, you really don’t notice it. I did so most recently in October, and will likely do it next week. Far less elevation than the depth of the flood waters. So, much of the water just took shortcuts to the Columbia, connecting back in around the Tri-Cities, if I remember correctly, but spreading out whenever the area around the river was too low – which was obviously common.
We have been meaning to hike up to the high water mark at where the ice dams were located, and just never have gotten it done. I drive through there maybe a dozen times a year, and very often we stop right about there for the USFS outhouse, or just to take a quick nap. Finding the high water marks there, and other indicia of the ice dams is apparently what cemented the theory. Note that to the west, it’s pretty much flat there (at least in comparison to NW MT there), and was periodically glaciated – with the glacier pushing down through NW ID and E WA, past where the Clark Fork exits the mountains. The glacier would then retreat beyond the Clark Fork exit, the ice dam would break, and then the Clark Fort would get blocked again as the glacier pushed back down.
David Sacks had some nice commentary on Tucker tonight. He coined the term “MAGA Democrats” meaning Microsoft-Apple-Google-Amazon Democrats. The big corps. follow their pay masters Sacks says. Not their customers who are locked into those systems, but their pay masters in big government.
@Roy:I see no reason why the concepts of Gradualism and Catastrophism cannot coexist.
They always do and always have. There was never any geologist who said that no catastrophe ever happened, and never any who said nothing happened gradually. “Gradualism” and “Catastrophism” are cartoon versions of scientific history. The history of science is obscure and has only a small number of active participants, and so these cartoon versions get entrenched in the minds of future generations, who weren’t there and didn’t closely follow the issues, which they often don’t understand.
I’ve run into a lot of these cartoon histories in math and physics.
Fredrick:
You are talking out of your hat. The history of science and particularly geology as science has more to it than you have bothered to learn.
You would have to start back in the 1840’s (that’s a clue). Another term for “Gradualism” is Uniformitarianism as opposed to Catastrophism.
There are hierarchies in science, and some scientists think they know all about other disciplined it seems.
The piled higher and deeper (PhD) effect.
Cartoons indeed.
Hemingway, himself a naturalist of note (cutting his teeth in Michigan’s northern peninsula), also discussed the concept in “The Sun Also Rises”…
(That is, if one considers bankruptcy a “catastrophic event”…)
I understand that people who seem to know about these things have claimed that there was NO Ukraine connection.
After having seen SBF’s bizarre, smarmy denial that there was a connection, I can only conclude, given his sheer criminality and subterranean level of credibility, that one has grounds to believe the (Ukraine connection) claim.
Glacial Lake Agassiz was by far the largest lake that ever existed in North America.
See here:
It may have covered up to 170,000 square miles which is about the size of present day Black Sea.
If most folks had even a very cursory idea of the massive climatic changes the earth has experienced over millions of years, those greenies and their “scientific” cronies would be laughed out of the room with their patently false arguments of man made climate change or the fiction of a “climate emergency.”
But then again, we have “educated” people claiming that men can become pregnant, that it is impossible to ascertain at birth the gender of a baby, or to know if an adult is a male or female, etc.,etc.
What is truly astonishing is that people who utter this total bullshit are actually listened to and paid attention to (or are appointed to the SCOTUS), despite the fact that everybody knows what is being said is a complete lie.
Amazing how easy it is to cow the masses.
Having spend a fair amount of time driving through Illinois, it would have been difficult to convince me the state possessed as many as one hill.
But then we went to Starved Rock. It was carved out of the terrain by a one-off flood from the Great Lakes. It’s a fabulously well done place. The visitors center has a lot of educational opportunities. Apparently, on holidays, the traffic is backed up to I80 and they close it at ten in the morning, because the folks there by then max out the place.
Incredibly formations. Great hiking.
South of I80, east of Peru, along the Illinois River. You could practically forget Chicago.
I’m wondering about the scab lands. Was there sufficient time between events for the land to recover and draw in the locals to settle. Or not? Or possibly some ancient tales about cursed land.
Richard Aubrey:
The Yakima, Wanapum, and Nez Perce nations are still around but I don’t know if their oral history goes back that far. They have claimed the “Kennewick Man” is their ancestor.
“Kennewick Man” was found along the shoreline of the Columbia River in 1996 and has been dated to around 8,900 – 9000 years ago. Quite a while after the Lake Missoula floods.
Richard, that sounds nice! I took I-80 back when I was in Illinois last. Stopped for gas in Minooka. To think I just missed that spot! Well, I was in a bit of a hurry….
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Interesting. When I heard this theory a few years ago it seemed highly plausible, but I am not under the impression it is accepted by the majority of geologists. I’ll have to research this a bit more.
At 3:00 the narrator states, “It was called ‘Lake Missoula’.” No it wasn’t. It “is” called “Lake Missoula.” Who knows what the natives (if there were any there 15,000 years ago) called that body of water?
Here ya go, Rufus: https://youtube.com/@hugefloods
The China protests have TOTALLY disappeared from all the news feeds I look at. I even went to MSNBC, yahoo, etc. Anyone have any idea of what has happened in less than 12 hours??
Xi gave suggestions
https://t.me/electionwizard/5384
Check the Epoch Times. They have a “China” tab.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-news
The Daily Mail also has several articles, even if they seem to be rather partial to the lurid side of things…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11480467/Chinese-cops-use-violence-intimidation-curb-anti-Covid-lockdown-protests.html
Just another open-thread comment about something I read.
The Canadian retailer, Simons, is promoting the government’s assisted-suicide program with a television commercial (https://tinyurl.com/4an3vr5b). I’ve read that the video has now gone viral.
According to Wikipedia, Simons specializes in selling fashionable clothing and home decor for men and women in their thirties and forties. In the Simons commercial, the young woman who’s chosen to die, with the help of her government, is the kind of customer targeted by Simons. This murky mix of fashion, consumerism, euthanasia, and government control is troubling. Does it define Canadian Marxism of the Trudeau/Castro breed?
I’m not opposed to assisted suicide for terminal patients in great pain, but a government that promotes this service(?) is terribly dangerous. Slippery slopes abound.
Kind of like the damn that burst that formed the Mediterrean Sea.
Talking about serious floods…
‘Elon Musk Says Exposé Of Twitter’s “Free Speech Suppression” Coming “Soon” ‘—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/elon-musk-says-expose-twitters-free-speech-suppression-coming-soon
Wonder if “Biden” will be able to “persuade” the providers to head Musk off at the pass…nip him in the bud…though it will probably be easier for the DOJ/FBI/NSA/CIA to deploy the old DOS-attack trick…24/7.
(That is if the SHUT-HIM-DOWN Brigade can’t get him for not paying enough income tax 20-30 years ago or arrest him for being nasty to his former MIL…but which one?)
File under: “Hackers for Democracy!”
Too, a possible metaphor of the “white paper” revolution arising across China. Moreover, catastrophic floods seem to have been a frequent pivot point in Chinese political change, indicating some failure of the mandate of heaven: how then with sweeping contagion?
Something wicked
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/z3f7a5/one_of_the_pics_from_the_balenciaga_child/
Rufus T Firefly:
The Lake Missoula floods are fully accepted as the cause for the Channeled Scabland of eastern WA. There are glacial dropstones (erratics) in the Willamette Valley of OR, as well.
In fairness, given the extremely long geological history of the Earth (4.5 gigayears), I seriously doubt that was Earth’s worst megaflood. Even if you don’t consider tsunami generated by large bolide impacts in the ocean as “floods”, it’s a virtual certainty that even larger outburst megafloods occurred at other points in the past. For example, it’s believed that Earth has frozen over completely a few times in the past. Imagine the gargantuan ice damns that may have formed during the thaws after such a “Snowball Earth” period, trapping small oceans of water across some primordial super continent. The scale the resulting outburst flood in such a scenario would be insane.
I grew up in the Channeled Scablands; what happened there is very very obvious simply by looking around. The Ice Age floods have been generally accepted by geologists for at least 40 years now….
And when I meet geologists, which happens more often than you might expect, they know exactly where I’m from and we have something to talk about.
Thanks, Barry. I always check the DM, but the story must have been way down.
Tanks. Well, we knew what the response was going to be.
Nonapod:
Unfortunately evidence of such floods older or bigger tends to get erased. Part of the Missoula Floods story has to do with the concepts of Gradualism and Catastrophism (all processes that are seen today can explain geologic history given enough time (4.5 billion years) as opposed to cataclysmic events (Noah’s Flood as the worst example)). Geologists can be a contentious lot. Arguing about catastrophic events; floods, bolide impacts, plate tectonics, and even whether BIPOCs don’t pursue careers in geology because of the stigma associated with rock picks (the pointy hammer).
As a aside, petroleum geologists have noted that sea level goes up and down quite a bit over 100s of million years. Glaciers come and glaciers go as do continental ice sheets. Heresy, must be ignored. Geologists need funding, so politics enters in.
sdferr, thanks for the link! Interesting youtube channel.
om, I must be confusing this with something else. First I heard of the cataclysmic flood theory of abrupt erosion was a guy on Joe Rogan’s podcast and he, Joe and another guest mentioned several times that geologists viewed him and his theory as rogue. As I wrote, it made a lot of sense to me. Maybe I’m confusing this event with a different geologic event, but an ice dam near Utah/Montana is what I remember.
This is undoubtedly a dumb question, but why wasn’t the water behind the ice dam frozen? Why was the dam ice but the lake liquid water? And why doesn’t this happen in the fjords of Norway and Finland, which are used as examples in the video?
Because it happens deep inland rather than at the coast
In a word, volume, Rufus. Freezing all that volume in Lake Missoula would have required more cold than possible at that time. The surface might have iced over from time to time depending on the extent of winter cold, but never the depths.
The scale and power of natural forces should make us a little more humble yet we think we can master it effortlessly
Thats is part of thd folly in the gaea hypothesis
No folly.
They’re just using it as an excuse to gain more and more power.
(Though perhaps THAT’s their folly…. Yep, they should reread their Classics… That’ll do it!)
Folly in the premise if the earth is this great organism what can us puny humans do
You can guess as to the frequency if asteroid impacts on the earth by looking at the moon. Everyone of these striking our oceans (78%) would have caused spectacular tsunamis miles high. These would have rolled into our heartland hundreds of miles from all directions.
Well the atmosphere slows the speed and impact of the objects
physicsguy– Apropos of events in China, the latest is that the regime is blaming a guy who went for a half-hour jog last August: “Chinese health officials have claimed an unmasked runner infected nearly 40 people with COVID after taking a half-hour jog through a park — despite experts worldwide downplaying the risk of outdoor spread. . . . In the November report, the Chinese Centers for Disease Control and Prevention claimed that ‘Patient Zero’ jogged through a local park in the Chongqing municipality back in August and potentially exposed the virus to approximately 2,836 people and infected 39 with the virus.”
https://nypost.com/2022/11/29/china-pushes-dubious-study-about-jogger-causing-covid-19-outbreak/
I’m waiting for the CDC to blame the baseball postseason for an uptick in U.S. COVID cases– after all, the local Atlanta team didn’t win the WS this year.
I see no reason why the concepts of Gradualism and Catastrophism cannot coexist. I have personally witnessed a “catastrophic” flood on a much, much smaller scale. Still, it was very impressive.
I used to hike in a river canyon just outside Chattanooga, TN. (If you’re interested, it is called Suck Creek canyon”) Suck Creek is a small stream that flows down off of the Cumberland Plateau and is normally small enough to wade in. However, one day in August 1982, we had two very powerful thunderstorms back to back that dumped a huge amount of rain onto the plateau. Suck creek turned into a raging torrent. It was strong enough to obliterate a pretty substantial highway bridge and move house-sized boulders downstream. It also noticeably widened the canyon. The event lasted less than a day.
Barry Meislin said, “They’re just using it as an excuse to gain more and more power.”
Well, it looks as if the EU version of tyranny is marching across the Netherlands: Despite massive nationwide farmers’ protests almost five months ago, the Dutch government plans to shut down thousands of farms to comply with the European Union’s demands. “The Dutch government plans to buy and close down up to 3,000 farms near environmentally sensitive areas to comply with EU nature preservation rules,” the British daily Telegraph confirmed on Monday. . . . The state-backed “emission reduction” drive in the Netherlands is part of a more extensive EU climate campaign as Brussels doubles down on its radical globalist agenda despite a record rise in food and fuel prices across the Continent. The UK’s Telegraph further reported: The Netherlands is attempting to cut down its nitrogen pollution and will push ahead with compulsory purchases if not enough farms take up the offer voluntarily. . . . Faced with a government-backed climate onslaught, Dutch farmers are organizing themselves politically. They have fielded a new political party called the Boer Burger Beweging (BBB), or the Farmer-Citizen Movement.
Needless to say, the Grauniad and other lefty European newspapers are worried that the Dutch deplorables’ movement might spread, as German farmers supported their Dutch neighbors during the summer protests.
Video of the Dutch farmers’ July protest at the link: https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/11/netherlands-to-shut-down-thousands-of-farms-to-comply-with-eu-climate-demands/
“Natural Cycles of Climate Change”
Did the narrator really say this??
OMG, he will be in very deep sh&t with the greenies and wacko enviros. He is sure to be ‘ghosted” by all his (now former) friends and by the enviro Nazis on social media.
After all, “natural” climate change – which lasted about 3 billion years – came to a screeching halt in about 1979 or so when climate “scientists” were screaming about the coming ice age (look it up, folks).
Today of course, climate change is ONLY the result of human activity and of course this applies to any changes in climate on nearby planets as well, such as on Mars.
https://townhall.com/columnists/jeffcrouere/2022/11/28/liz-cheney-wins-2022-turkey-of-the-year-award-n2616413
physicsguy:
I don’t know what’s been happening in China during the last twelve hours, but I often check “Asia Times” for the bigger picture. No matter the topic, their writers always look for an anti-American slant, so I try to keep that in mind. Even so, it’s an alternative to the standard woke American Marxist news media.
Here’s a link to Asia Time’s China section: https://tinyurl.com/3rw5xya4
And here’s a link to an article, published today, about how the protests have accelerated changes in China’s zero-covid policy: https://tinyurl.com/3p2vnpme
Here are three paragraphs that do a good job of summarizing the changes:
“The traditional Chinese vaccines such as Sinovac proved not only far less effective against the original Covid variants, but nearly totally ineffective against omicron and incapable of mitigating infection severity. As omicron hit, China was left without defenses other than lockdown affecting hundreds of millions of people.
The plan is to concentrate all efforts on treatment of the disease – minimizing deaths rather than pursuing ultimately futile measures of prevention, which have become a major economic and political liability.
During his early November visit to Beijing, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz took along 12 CEOs of major German companies, among them Ugur Sahin, head of the Mainz-based BioNTech vaccine maker. That was hardly an accident. German-Chinese collaboration in implementation of a key element in China’s new Covid policy is in the works.”
In other words:
1. De-emphasize lockdowns.
2. Emphasize treatment to reduce deaths.
3. Abandon futile policy of zero infections.
4. Work with German pharmaceutical companies to implement mRNA vaccination program.
5. Implication would be that Chinese Sinovac vaccine would be phased out. Uncertain about this.
re. Old lakes. Here is a youtube presentation of Lake Bonneville flood some 17K years back. Same idea, same neighborhood: glacier melt forms huge lake, unknown geologic event breaks the dam (earthen) allowing lake to flood north into what is now Snake River drainage.
It appears that the remains of that lake are the Bonneville salt flats, and Utah and Great Salt lakes. Humans today are trying to figure out a way to stop the Salt Lake from shrinking. Actually its one of the last puddles of the bigger lake of years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqJweIoLLKQ
https://www.theepochtimes.com/desantis-congress-should-target-apple-over-alleged-threats-to-block-twitter_4892445.html
I have heard for some years that a catastrophic dam break through what is now the Bosporus formed the Black Sea.
Like so
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222471228_An_Abrupt_Drowning_of_the_Black_Sea_Shelf
Kari Lake has dropped off the cliff of the 24 hour news cycle. Here is an update by Lake on the situation.
According to her, the election must be certified for her lawsuit to move forward.
The absurdity of the Maricopa election is highlighted, but given a Maricopa judge refused to extend voting hours even though the malfunctioning printers/tabulators was an obvious impediment to voting, I’m skeptical her lawsuit will gain traction.
While a Georgia judge overruled clear state law about early voting, I don’t see any evidence of conservative judges wanting to get near election disputes.
As one Maricopa judge said that “show many a voter that was not allowed to vote”, the bar is very high.
It would be interesting to have a redo in Maricopa county to validate the botched election. Not happening. Not good for the future either. Hope I’m wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8VL9g9Y6ZI
My immediate reaction to ‘biggest flood EVAH’ was to think of the Mediterranean, too. On the other hand, maybe they said the ‘biggest flood in human history’ which is closer to the truth, since the Zanclean flood was 5.3 million years back.
Although historians would probably argue that Lake Missoula was from pre-history, even if humans inhabited the shores. Or maybe ‘pre-history’ is a concept that is currently out of fashion; it’s an American video aimed at lay people full of metric measurements.
Boobah:
I found all the metrics very annoying.
Dueling headlines (one is from the Babylon Bee):
Outrage Grows as Hollywood Remains Silent on Balenciaga BDSM-Themed Child Ads
vs
Celebrities Cut Ties With Balenciaga After MyPillow Spotted In Photo Shoot
McConnell does it again. He has never learned anything. Hurting other Republicans doesn’t help us win anything at any level. Hurts during elections. Hurts getting laws passed. Hurts all the time in every way. Reagan understood. Don’t beat up your own team.
When W made a terrible nomination, conservatives revolted. W was completely gutted as president and incapable of getting anything done the rest of his term. Democrats understand this. They care about winning. They rally around other Democrats no matter how nasty, vile, or flawed. They care about getting the job done no matter how messy or ugly.
Republicans in DC don’t understand it because they don’t care about winning. They care about protecting their grift, their rice bowls, their cocktail party invitations and their moral vanity and preening.
Politics is a zero sum power game. You are either winning or you are losing. There are no moral victories. No honor. No morality.
Politics is about who gets to use violence in society. There are no Queensberry rules. By now, everyone knows there are no laws, either. No constitution. You either win or you get screwed. It’s a street fight, but with less honor.
We are fighting for the survival of America. Figure out whose team you are on. And stop shooting our own guys in the back.
And Libertarians better figure out soon that they are no shows in the existential fight. Refusing to fight back against evil because you might get your hands dirty is flat out cowardice.
The left is perfecting the use of the judiciary to advance their agenda. The left is attempting to “Alex Jones” the former President.
…”If former President Trump disrupted the certification of the electoral vote count, as plaintiffs allege here, such actions would not constitute executive action in defense of the Constitution,” wrote Sullivan, who was appointed to the federal bench by then-President Bill Clinton in 1994.
“For these reasons, the court concludes that former President Trump is not immune from monetary damages in this suit.”
________
“Sullivan, though, added Trump’s response to the 2020 and 2022 elections show the former president still could “pose a very substantial risk in the future to plaintiffs’ fundamental right to vote.”
“President Trump continues to spread false claims about the 2022 elections and continues to attempt to pressure officials into nullifying the election results: Plaintiffs extensively allege the efforts of former President Trump and his allies as recently as March 2022 to get state officials to overturn the election results; to endorse and provide financial support to candidates for office who supported his false claims of election fraud; all while fundraising for the 2024 presidential election,” the judge wrote.”
“The NAACP and MWRO sued Trump in late 2020 for his efforts to overturn the results of the presidential election, specifically for “disenfranchising black voters in Michigan” by pressuring state officials not to certify election results.”
The Sandy Hook plaintiffs were awarded $1 billion against Alex Jones. What might be the award against President Trump— $1billion, $2 billion?
It seems so farfetched as to warrant a chuckle. But the left never jokes.
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/donald-trump-absolute-immunity-2020-election/2022/11/29/id/1098377/
Miguel,
“Well the atmosphere slows the speed and impact of the objects”
Not enough to matter, if the object is large or dense enough. “Kinetic energy is directly proportional to the mass of the object and to the square of its velocity: K.E. = 1/2 m v2”
I love to learn more of the Bretz flood, but please Lord let it be from a straightforward geology professor and not from this overdramatized arm-waving dude.
Insufficiently Sensitive:
Here is a start.
Ice Age Floods, Lake Missoula, Bonneville Flood and the Columbia River Basalts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1BFb_uYlFQ
We spend half the year living at the bottom of what was Glacial Lake Missoula. The ice plugs were right where the Clark Fork River exits from the Cabinet mountains, right before you get to Clark Fort, ID, about 30 miles east of Sandpoint (up ID/MT 200), pretty close to the MT/ID border. Our house is almost exactly 50 miles up river from there, so in the deeper part of the lake.
Normally, the Clark Fork runs into Lake Pend O’Reille, and exits as the Pend O’Reille river (near Sandpoint), which loops into Canada, to connect into the Columbia. But that wasn’t what happened when the ice dams broke. There isn’t that much elevation between the Clark Fork and Pend O’Reille, and the Coeur d’Alene/Spokane River drainage. When you drive it, you really don’t notice it. I did so most recently in October, and will likely do it next week. Far less elevation than the depth of the flood waters. So, much of the water just took shortcuts to the Columbia, connecting back in around the Tri-Cities, if I remember correctly, but spreading out whenever the area around the river was too low – which was obviously common.
We have been meaning to hike up to the high water mark at where the ice dams were located, and just never have gotten it done. I drive through there maybe a dozen times a year, and very often we stop right about there for the USFS outhouse, or just to take a quick nap. Finding the high water marks there, and other indicia of the ice dams is apparently what cemented the theory. Note that to the west, it’s pretty much flat there (at least in comparison to NW MT there), and was periodically glaciated – with the glacier pushing down through NW ID and E WA, past where the Clark Fork exits the mountains. The glacier would then retreat beyond the Clark Fork exit, the ice dam would break, and then the Clark Fort would get blocked again as the glacier pushed back down.
David Sacks had some nice commentary on Tucker tonight. He coined the term “MAGA Democrats” meaning Microsoft-Apple-Google-Amazon Democrats. The big corps. follow their pay masters Sacks says. Not their customers who are locked into those systems, but their pay masters in big government.
@Roy:I see no reason why the concepts of Gradualism and Catastrophism cannot coexist.
They always do and always have. There was never any geologist who said that no catastrophe ever happened, and never any who said nothing happened gradually. “Gradualism” and “Catastrophism” are cartoon versions of scientific history. The history of science is obscure and has only a small number of active participants, and so these cartoon versions get entrenched in the minds of future generations, who weren’t there and didn’t closely follow the issues, which they often don’t understand.
I’ve run into a lot of these cartoon histories in math and physics.
Fredrick:
You are talking out of your hat. The history of science and particularly geology as science has more to it than you have bothered to learn.
You would have to start back in the 1840’s (that’s a clue). Another term for “Gradualism” is Uniformitarianism as opposed to Catastrophism.
There are hierarchies in science, and some scientists think they know all about other disciplined it seems.
The piled higher and deeper (PhD) effect.
Cartoons indeed.
Hemingway, himself a naturalist of note (cutting his teeth in Michigan’s northern peninsula), also discussed the concept in “The Sun Also Rises”…
(That is, if one considers bankruptcy a “catastrophic event”…)
Sorry, make that “…in northern Michigan…”
And speaking of floods…
…SBF is so full of it it’s embarrassing. (Actually, I was going to say “he embarrasses himself” but it looks increasingly that that particular sentiment is not in his repertoire….)
‘ SBF Addresses Rumors Whether He Laundered Ukraine Donations: “I Wish I Could Have Pulled That Off” ‘—
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/sbf-addresses-rumors-whether-he-laundered-ukraine-donations-i-wish-i-could-have-pulled
I understand that people who seem to know about these things have claimed that there was NO Ukraine connection.
After having seen SBF’s bizarre, smarmy denial that there was a connection, I can only conclude, given his sheer criminality and subterranean level of credibility, that one has grounds to believe the (Ukraine connection) claim.
Glacial Lake Agassiz was by far the largest lake that ever existed in North America.
See here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Agassiz
It may have covered up to 170,000 square miles which is about the size of present day Black Sea.
If most folks had even a very cursory idea of the massive climatic changes the earth has experienced over millions of years, those greenies and their “scientific” cronies would be laughed out of the room with their patently false arguments of man made climate change or the fiction of a “climate emergency.”
But then again, we have “educated” people claiming that men can become pregnant, that it is impossible to ascertain at birth the gender of a baby, or to know if an adult is a male or female, etc.,etc.
What is truly astonishing is that people who utter this total bullshit are actually listened to and paid attention to (or are appointed to the SCOTUS), despite the fact that everybody knows what is being said is a complete lie.
Amazing how easy it is to cow the masses.
Having spend a fair amount of time driving through Illinois, it would have been difficult to convince me the state possessed as many as one hill.
But then we went to Starved Rock. It was carved out of the terrain by a one-off flood from the Great Lakes. It’s a fabulously well done place. The visitors center has a lot of educational opportunities. Apparently, on holidays, the traffic is backed up to I80 and they close it at ten in the morning, because the folks there by then max out the place.
Incredibly formations. Great hiking.
South of I80, east of Peru, along the Illinois River. You could practically forget Chicago.
I’m wondering about the scab lands. Was there sufficient time between events for the land to recover and draw in the locals to settle. Or not? Or possibly some ancient tales about cursed land.
Richard Aubrey:
The Yakima, Wanapum, and Nez Perce nations are still around but I don’t know if their oral history goes back that far. They have claimed the “Kennewick Man” is their ancestor.
“Kennewick Man” was found along the shoreline of the Columbia River in 1996 and has been dated to around 8,900 – 9000 years ago. Quite a while after the Lake Missoula floods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/kennewick-man-finally-freed-share-his-secrets-180952462/
And many other articles ….
Richard, that sounds nice! I took I-80 back when I was in Illinois last. Stopped for gas in Minooka. To think I just missed that spot! Well, I was in a bit of a hurry….