Open thread 11/23/22
In case you thought it was simple for chimps and birds, it’s not (the clip I’ve cued up is about 5 minutes long):
The New Neo
A blog about political change, among other things
In case you thought it was simple for chimps and birds, it’s not (the clip I’ve cued up is about 5 minutes long):
VDH makes the case that the Democrats have gone full evil. https://jewishworldreview.com/1122/hanson112322.php3
We all know that he’s right. The corruption, the dishonesty, the fraud, the destruction of the constitution, the abuse of power, the shredding of the rule of law — expect more of the same. Rinse and repeat.
Stan, thanks for that link.
VDH expresses exactly my own cynicism with regard to our political state, and the fecklessness of the GOP to do anything about it. I dropped my GOP registration back in the Boehner era, and see no reason since to renew it. There’s a minority of Republicans that I respect, but the majority are just part of the uniparty. VDH is correct I’m afraid, 2024 will be no different.
BTW — the recent blowup of FTX has focused attention on the bizarre claims made in favor of crypto. I always have to laugh whenever I hear claims of something as a store of value. There is no such a thing as a store of value. Just as there is no such thing as value or wealth that is intrinsic to a physical item or a financial instrument. A few physical things have utility because they are necessary or useful for survival (food, water, shelter, weapons, etc.) but there is no definitive value or wealth that we can attach to them by virtue of their utility. As for financial instruments, they are totally dependent on the rule of law, political and social stability, and reasonable expectations of an ability to enforce obligations. [imagine the value of a bitcoin if the electric grid fails]
All value and all wealth are nothing more than a function of bargained for exchange. Something is only valuable to the extent that someone else values it and is willing to make an exchange of something else (which you value) for it. That willingness is variable in both the short term and long term. Thus, obviously, there is no store of value. It’s a concept that has no meaning in the real world.
Understanding a simple concept like this is important for the same reason that observing Covid idiots is important. When people demonstrate that they really, really don’t understand the basics, they shouldn’t be trusted with power or influence. Neither should one look to them for advice or counsel. None of us is all wise or all knowing. We’re all flawed. But if we have any hope of making wise choices, we’re better off with decisions that aren’t driven by ignorance and stupidity.
Tucker interviewed the CEO of the CME Group (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) Terry Duffy. This guy really understands futures and derivatives trading because they’ve been doing it without mishap for a long time. He was blowing the whistle on FTX on Capitol Hill and elsewhere well before the collapse.
He says it’s not about crypto. It’s about a crap trading model that puts risk management in the back seat, with a complete lack of margin capital available as collateral.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/absolute-fraud-cmes-terry-duffy-says-he-saw-trouble-before-ftx-collapse-.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rnKnOO46g
It seems to be the old story:
“WHO is this guy?
You’re asking who this guy is?
I can’t believe it! You DON’T KNOW WHO this guy IS??
Steph Curry and Tom Brady are head over heels in love with THIS GUY. They’ve already made a mint! All of those guys. ALL of ’em….
And THEY know a good thing when they see it….
WOW! OK, how can I get in…?”
(AKA “due diligence”…)
We went to the store yesterday to do our shopping (go every 2 wks) and the stores were packed. WM, Sam’s, King Soopers (Kroger). Some items out of stock already, but people were buying. I maintain a spreadsheet of the price of items we buy and Yes I was shocked by some of the price increases. Now, these were small cost items but going up 20% to some at 50% adds to your food bill. We can absorb the costs but a lot of families can’t. I truly believe that it will get worse too.
The video is actually about “female choice in sexual selection” in the bird and chimp world. A bit more interesting than the top title would suggest. DNA testing cracks open another area of understanding.
Agree that the FTX blowup was peculiar to outrageously bad corporate behavior. The issues regarding crypto and the silly claims made about it are a separate discussion. I merely noted that the blowup is an incident that has caused more of that discussion.
Crypto is just gold or diamonds or tulip bulbs or baseball cards or art or any other asset whose essential value argument comes down to nothing more than an appeal to the greater fool theory of investment. Lots of people make lots of money as momentum traders. There doesn’t have to be any there “there” to trade it profitably. But it’s not a store of value. Nothing is.
Its other supposed benefit is as a medium of exchange. Pretty lousy medium. It’s unwieldy to actually use, it’s capable of theft through hacking, and it disappears in a serious crisis.
But I’m never going to say that people cannot find a greater fool. Maybe they can. Many do. As with gold, diamonds, art, and baseball cards. My basic point is that the claim made about it as a store of value is bogus and silly.
Ignore the promos and ads, but here is rather cogent analysis of the FTX fiasco. I’ve followed Mauldin for a long time. I found myself thinking that FTX has a lot similarities to the current administration.
Try pounding pyrite (iron sulphide), aka fools gold, into a thin film to gild an object so that it is lustrous yet doesn’t tarnish. Or making coins that don’t corrode and waste away. Or making incredibly thin wires, yes you need a microscope to handle them, for making connections in the microprocessors that run all modern electronics. So tell me again that Gold does not have intrinsic value. For some reason gold, copper, tin, even iron have been valued by societies and cultures at a higher level than, say, excrement.
Yep.
All BS, all sleaze, all lies, all accusations, all criminality, all coverup, all other people’s money, all everyone else’s fault…ALL THE TIME…
Following the new normal for progressives, the Thanksgiving talking points memo to make sure your family members are good comrades (except “the Uncle” of course). Let’s discuss:
Shadow President Klain wants us to know Biden raided the US Strategic Petroleum Reserves to lower gas prices for the election and for this holiday to just 50% over what gas prices were when Biden took office.
Klain doesn’t want you to think about the pending railroad strike due to Biden’s inability to work with unions.
Klain thinks Biden should take full credit for OTC hearing aids, a law passed in 2017 and signed by Trump.
And how about a vague reference to something that nobody can fact check?
Oh, and Biden took on big pharma by giving full support to unending vaccinations in support to lowering Medicare Part D out-of-pocket, if you live long enough to enjoy.
There’s that infrastructure bill! So now you have high speed internet because of Biden, because Biden’s Presidency began sometime in 2005.
Biden also wants to claim credit for extending grants to a MAGA initiative begun under Trump.
Alas, this Thanksgiving, there is freedom of speech on Twitter, and the mockery of the White House is awesome to behold.
The rest is a litany of ways Biden has worked to restrict freedom in America and finishing with bald face lies.
https://t.me/The_Library_II/90630
om:
But gold has much more value than its practical uses would dictate. The added value is not intrinsic but is agreed-on for various other reasons.
I wondered why I was getting those ads on Facebook!
“A deep dive from The Markup and The Verge published this morning explains in detail how some of the country’s most popular tax prep software makers, including H&R Block, TaxSlayer, and TaxAct, utilized the popular Meta Pixel tracking tool to amass sensitive data including names, email addresses, incomes, refunds, filing statuses, and even dependents’ college scholarship amounts from annual filings. Designed and made freely available by Facebook, the code marks a tiny pixel on participating websites that subsequently sends a host of information regarding people’s digital activity to the Meta.”
https://www.popsci.com/technology/tax-prep-share-information-facebook/
Om,
You have completely missed the point. Let’s start over.
Gold has no value. EXCEPT for what others are willing to exchange for it. There are presently some who are willing to use it for certain purposes which they value (as you have listed). So they are willing to exchange something else of value for it. That isn’t guaranteed in the future. Thus, it is not a store of value.
Does a new F-150 pickup truck have value? Not in a world without gasoline. If gasoline were outlawed, the truck wouldn’t sell for very much. Those willing to exchange value for it would be few. So the truck’s value in the future is totally dependent of someone else being willing to exchange something of value for it. It is NOT a store of value (because nothing is a store of value).
This is true of ALL assets and ALL property. Wealth or the accumulation of property is nothing more than a bundle of legal rights. Property has no value absent a stable political and social system where those legal rights are protected and enforceable. If you have to use violence to keep it or protect it, it’s not property. Because then you effectively have no rights, only superior force.
When property rights aren’t protected, society descends into chaos. This is what Soros and his prosecutors are trying to achieve. If these prosecutors were in place throughout the country and property crimes were ignored, the destruction in wealth values would be near total. America would cease to exist.
Recognize that everything you think of as an asset is dependent on the opinions and desires of others for whatever valuation it has. Shares of stock, the value of a consulting business, your house, your stamp collection or rare art, govt bonds, a sandwich shop, a riding academy, a grocery store, crypto, a stack of benjamins, a roll of quarters, acreage, a stack of wood, a bushel of corn. It’s only worth what someone is willing to exchange for it and that varies dependent on the market (the collection of potential buyers and potential sellers).
Hope this helps.
Gold has no value. Ok, what world do you live on? Economics without reality has no utility.
In the long term we are all dead. The dismal science indeed.
Liquidity is
a problem:
https://twitter.com/FreeBeacon/status/1594803378596487177?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1595036008344850432%7Ctwgr%5E8dd5df4c8dba7001ea89d4cfea02e2205bb97010%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=
The silent majority speaks (via statistics):
The vaxxed now account for a majority of COVID deaths.
When the vax was rolled out, I had natural immunity so I didn’t get the jab. Further, I declared “show me the bodies”, by which I meant a significant rise in all cause deaths. The vast majority of alleged Covid deaths appeared to be from comorbidities that the medical establishment pushed aside to fraudulently hype Covid.
Finally, bodies began to pile up, but not from the bug. Something has triggered a significant rise in all cause deaths, and a catastrophic rise in fetal demises (stillbirths). As the bodies and evidence continue to pile up, there is little doubt what that something is.
Banned Lizard:
The vaccinated have long been the majority of COVID deaths, but that has no meaning whatsoever if you actually think about it. Even prior to vaccination, deaths in older age groups was higher by far than in younger age groups. Deaths under 40 are exceedingly rare, vaccinated or not. The older the age group, the higher the percentage of vaccinated people in that group. As you probably know, some and perhaps many people listed as dying of COVID actually die of other causes but have positive COVID tests. Take all those things and put them together, and of course more people will die who are vaccinated than the unvaccinated – they are a much older group in general and much more vulnerable both to COVID and to tons of other illnesses.
The statistics:
93% of people over 65 are vaccinated
83% of people 50 to 64 are vaccinated
71% of people 25 to 49 are vaccinated
66% of people 18 to 24 are vaccinated
61% of people 12 to 17 are vaccinated
32% of people 5 to 11 are vaccinated
4% of people 2 to 4 are vaccinated
2% of people under 2 are vaccinated
You can see for yourself that the skew of the vaccinated is towards older people, and most of the unvaccinated are young and not really at risk of dying from COVID except in exceedingly rare circumstances. Plus, quite a few of the younger vaccinated people would tend to be people who have underlying health problems, and that could predispose them to dying of COVID or with COVID despite the vaccine.
The article you linked says that 58% of people dying from COVID (or possibly with COVID, as we know) were vaccinated. But as you can see from the statistics I just offered, in the age groups that are at risk for COVID death (over 40 and especially the elderly) the vaccination rate is very high. In the eldest group, it is 93%. The average vaccination percentage of the age groups over 40 is probably somewhere around 80%. If only 58% of the deaths from (or with) COVID are of the vaccinated, this points to the conclusion that vaccination is somewhat good at preventing COVID deaths.
That link you posted is from a website that specializes in using statistics to create false impressions about what they mean. The author either does this purposely or is ignorant of statistics. Either way, it’s not good at all and I have zero respect for that writer.
I’m very tired of refuting this sort of bogus stuff. I’ve been doing it for a long time and it is tedious and redundant. I’ve asked other commenters to please stop posting these links here – not one of them has panned out as true. I ask the same of you.
As for that stillbirth issue, you write that you have little doubt what that something is causing it. Are you aware, for example, that there was a large rise in stillbirths prior to the vaccine? See this, and notice the dates. The rise in stillbirths may have been partly from COVID infections (not the vaccine, because it wasn’t in use at that time) but probably mostly from lack of prenatal care and monitoring caused by the lockdowns.
“There Are Three Kinds of Lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics”
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2022/06/22/lies-statistics/
Not the data per say but the misuse of it, the “shading” of what it means, or ignoring the limitiations relative to the claims made.
neo:
Thanks for fisking this kind of thing again.
Fair points, Neo. I will pipe down on this topic while watching for further developments, such as what Emerald Robinson recently alluded to.
BTW, per your take on the Brothers Hoft, I now avoid linking to Gateway Pundit, and can do the same with Emerald if you prefer.
There was a lot of money at stake pushing this universal protocol to all parties by all outlets including fox and newsmax ignoring the myriad side effects and more effective inexpensive therapies
93% of people over 65 are vaccinated
That makes me a 7-percenter.
The few, the brave, the unvaxxed.
Banned Lizard:
Thank you. I wouldn’t ask it of you if I hadn’t researched links there (and elsewhere of a similar type) over and over again, sometimes taking many hours to research each one, and found them ALL incorrect and misleading. The trouble is that statistics can be used to mislead and often are. I have found certain sites to be consistently untrustworthy. That doesn’t mean that they might not post something true in the future, but I keep up with COVID news of many types well enough that I believe I’d hear about it if it’s anything important that appears true.
I have long thought that most people who have had COVID already probably do not need vaccinations, and that if they get COVID again it is usually a mild case because there is some cross-immunity for different strains. I have been appalled at officials who pretty much ignored natural immunity or pooh-poohed it till recently.
Stan: “When property rights aren’t protected, society descends into chaos. This is what Soros and his prosecutors are trying to achieve. If these prosecutors were in place throughout the country and property crimes were ignored, the destruction in wealth values would be near total. America would cease to exist.”
From Hernando de Soto’s “The Mystery of Capital”:
“Why do some countries succeed at capitalism while others fail?In strong opposition to the popular view that success is determined by cultural differences, de Soto finds that it actually has everything to do with the legal structure of property and property rights”
IMO, that’s correct. And Soros and his acolytes know it. What an evil SOB.
Stan, I still find your assertions that money is not (1) a store of value or (2) a medium of exchange difficult to understand. Along with its use as (3) a medium of account (e.g., dollars, euros, etc.), these are the three standard functions many economists and others assign to money.
If you are simply saying that the value(s) humans put on various goods and services is fully subjective, changing with time and circumstances, there is little to disagree with you on that.
I understand money to be a subtle and abstract idea, as basically a social contract or agreement among a populace to use a particular object (commodity good or fiat paper) or idea (digital records) to aid in conducting their economic transactions – an efficient alternative to, and significant expansion of, simple barter – and thus a great social invention. The fact that this agreement is so central to our way of economic and social life makes it hard for us to want to also admit that it is a rather fragile agreement, subject to many forces that could disrupt, distort, or destroy this useful utility. (Your comment about Bitcoin being unavailable if the power grid goes down is a bracing and useful insight, but it also applies to any other form of internet business, including normal banking, credit cards, etc.)
The goal is to create and maintain a money that retains a stable value relative to the wider economy in total (or at least for some preselected “basket” of commodities and services), even as the numerical prices of given goods and services goes up or down based on the subjective assessment of value for those goods and services. This is a difficult thing to accomplish, especially to keep the quantity of money available and in use in sync with the increases, or declines, in overall wealth within the society and the economy. A lot of guesswork here, I fear. And any observed changes in prices can be from a mix of both the relative quantity of money in circulation, and the changes in values due to supply/demand issues and to fickle humans.
This is also an issue I have with Bitcoin (or other cryptocurrency?) as a potential alternative money, since it has an established maximum quantity of “coins” able to be “mined” (21 million??). Once that level is reached, how can it maintain a stable price per coin as the economy grows or shrinks?
Somewhat related: today Michael Shellenberger published his substack article on the FTX and other cryptocurrency chaos: https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/why-cryptocurrencies-are-worse-than
His commenters raked him over the coals for not fully distinguishing between Bitcoin as a “true” peer to peer transaction, with no third middle party to mess things up, vs. all or most of the other cryptocurrency options currently available, that are much more suspect. One commenter referenced this article from 2021 by Lyn Alden https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoin-ponzi-scheme/ where she describes the history of Bitcoin and how it does not match the definition of a Ponzi scheme. Another commenter then cited an article from 2014 by Jeffery Tucker (founder of The Brownstone Institute) https://fee.org/articles/what-gave-bitcoin-its-value/ where he describes some ideas taken from Mises that supposedly Bitcoin is something unique as money because it combines the payment system and the monetary unit into one system, thus avoiding any 3rd party involvement. To the extent that I understand his article, I do not really agree with it, as even Bitcoin is subject to the “agreement” definition of money from above, plus it still involves humans with their own social emotions and logic as part of this “system”. But I tread carefully here, given Tucker’s and Mises’s economic credentials, so maybe I am still missing something.
Hopefully you and most of us here agree with the “abstract agreement” definition for money, but it is useful to sometimes restate the obvious or reexamine such definitions to ensure a solid understanding of such a subtle and complex topic. Occasionally our language usage just gets in the way of such understanding.
They say the best things in life are free
But you can give them to the birds and bees
I want money
That’s what I want
Much thanks to The Flying Lizards (thankfully not banned).
Thanks also to Hank Williams for commentary on recent elections.
I thought it was just Russian propaganda to consistently refer to the Nazism in Ukraine– just the long enmity between Nazi socialism and Soviet communism– but apparently there is some undercurrent of Nazism in Ukraine politics.
The Gates of Vienna noticed this as well, and posted a video from Italian authorities about a casual connection between an Italian neo-Nazi group and the Azov Battalion. The Azov battalion, certainly used Nazi symbolism in group– which was replaced by more acceptable symbols when the para-military group was absorbed into the Ukrainian military.
That shouldn’t be a condemnation of the Ukranian government– the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing– and Mazi sentiments may be as isolated there as it is here. But it does explain why the use of Nazis in reference to Ukraine keeps popping up.
“Long-time readers are aware of my aversion for participating in the Screaming Nazi Heeber-Jeebers. Bearing that in mind, I find the following video interesting only because of the reverence expressed by bien-pensants throughout the West for the brave Ukrainians fighting for democracy against the demonic Russians.”
“The affection of Westerners for all things Ukrainian includes a ritual denial that the Ukrainian paramilitary (and now actual military) group known as the Azov Battalion has anything to do with neo-fascism or neo-Nazism.”
https://gatesofvienna.net/2022/11/italian-neo-nazis-partner-with-the-azov-battalion/
Well, “ritual denial” is quite objective ain’t it.
You can do a search of Nazi tattoos found on Wagner Group mercenaries too and find them.
The ritual embrace of Vlad is it’s own special thing. Did Ukraine invade Roosia? Get back to me when you figure that basic fact out.
They aren’t tattoos but battle flags of the Azov Battalion.
Also, did you watch the video “The Gates of Vienna” posted?
Are you saying the Azov Battalion doesn’t have a history of Neo-Nazi influence?
Come on y’all!
Tell me you’re surprised….
“Howls Of Outrage After New York Times Confirms SBF To Speak Alongside Zelenskyy, Yellen”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/howls-outrage-after-new-york-times-confirms-sbf-speak-alongside-zelenskyy-yellen-dealbook
At this rate, I expect someone—Mom ‘n Pop?—to endow, in his name, at Stanford, a special chair on business ethics, altruism and compassion, replete with an impressive line-up of erudite lectures, high-powered, “hands-on” workshops and of course stipends for “deserving” students:
“The Stanford SBF Lectures on Ethics and Altruism in Business and Finance”…
Yeah, that sounds about right!
(I mean why punish him? Why incarcerate him? Why torture the poor boy when HE CAN DO SO MUCH GOOD???** When he has SO MUCH to contribute???**
…Which, it goes without saying, he intends to do.
REMORSE, CONTRITION, REGRET! Thy name is…SBF…
**Translation: when HE HAS GIVEN SO MUCH TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY???
OTOH, wouldn’t it be far easier—and JUST—to just throw the “penitent” in the penitentiary (where he can think “things” over a bit…and even start to compose those lectures…for that special chair…which he can deliver when he gets out…or, ahem, pardoned??
Azov have the black sun patch bandera started his career killing polish officials
We know that fauci funded the virus and bank freed prevented effective treatment
With the bogus studies he funded
They are all Nazis and Satanists, and an old story in the Roosisn line.
Roosia will be in Kherson, Crimea, and Kiev forever.
Its called information warfare.
Destruction of Ukrainian electricty infrastructure is no doubt intended to get those Nazi Azov subhumans too. Are the Azovites running that nuclear power plant complex or the hydroelectric dam upstream of Kherson? I guess Vlad will have to destroy them too. Can’t be too sure about those Ukrainian Nazis. (sarc)
Post a video link from Gates of Vienna when he gets around to that.
well robert vesco avoided a reckoning in costa rica, and havana, till he ran afoul of another smoother gangster, who wanted a piece of the action, in post fidel havana, some of those european sharks I mentioned earlier,
om, you can deflect all you want, but it just hurts your credibility.
Ukraine does have an issue with Nazism. So much that in 2015 Congressmen John Conyers of Michigan and Ted Yoho of Florida drew up an amendment to the House Defense Appropriations bill (HR 2685) that “limits arms, training, and other assistance to the neo-Nazi Ukrainian militia, the Azov Battalion.” It passed by a unanimous vote in the House.
In 2020, Ukraine’s parliament commemorated the Holocaust for the first time in its history. This commemorative event has been sponsored by the United Nations since 2005 to mark the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau by the Red Army in the winter of 1945.
But it appears Ukraine has been slow to reconcile its failures regarding the Holocaust.
“…Although the Nazis’ local helpers throughout Europe were involved everywhere in the implementation of the initial stages of the Final Solution (which constitutes being an accessory to murder), only in the East, where a large percentage of the victims were shot to death near their homes rather than being deported to death camps in German-occupied Poland, were the collaborators fully integrated into the mass murder operations.”
“Thus, the Holocaust is not denied in countries such as Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, Croatia and the Baltic states, but is portrayed as if it were almost exclusively the handiwork of Germans and Austrians, with little or no assistance from the local population. And in those few cases in which the guilt of local collaborators is acknowledged, they are often referred to as marginal or criminal elements of the local society.”
“The second objective is to convince world opinion that the crimes of the Soviet Union and its satellite Communist regimes were equally evil when compared to those of the Nazis, and that these crimes, too, constituted genocide. Historically inaccurate, the canard of equivalency is politically of central importance to certain quarters in Eastern and Central Europe where, by claiming to be victims of the worst crime imaginable, they seek to deflect or avoid painful discussions about local participation by their nationals in Holocaust crimes.
This phenomenon is particularly noticeable in Ukraine.”
https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-fight-for-historical-truth-about-the-Holocaust-in-Ukraine-485696
Nothing to see, but Roosia and the Wagner Group are knocking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caWT9pOnmyw
Tell me about those Azovites again?
Brian E:
I did not watch your fav post from Gates of Vienna, Sad. You be you.
The Second World War was a particularly evil time, with actual Nazis, Roosian collaboration with actual Nazis, dismemberment of Poland, the Holocaust, Nazi solutions for the Slavic people in eastern Europe, all that and more. It would seem that anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe precedes that evil time, Cossacks, pogroms, Russia and the Tsar. Funny that (not so funny at all actually). History. But it is 2022, and Roosia chose to invade Ukraine. Focus, Brian.
Nations have blind spots: Ukraine and predecessors of the Azovs fighting the Soviets in the 1940s, Turkey and Armenia, Roosia and Katyn and Poland as a whole.
This was preceded by the Holodomor. You do remember who did that to Ukraine, Brian? Maybe the Ukrainians remember that?
If I recall correctly Roosia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2022. One justification was deNazification. So are you all in with that?
Don’t lecture me about credibility when you cite Rep. John Conyers (D-MI). LOL
There is a certainly enough evil in the Holocaust to stain all humanity.
Brian E; om; et al:
From commenter “Turtler” on the Azovs:
neo:
Thank you for reposting Turtler’s comment about the current Azovs.
Information warfare.
I used to read Gates of Vienna back in the early 2000s when he was posting quite a bit about Islamic warfare against Europe after 9/11. I wonder what he has to say about Roosian use of Chechen Islamic forces (Kadyrovites) or Chechens fighting with the Ukrainians against the Roosians?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_involvement_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
You see, my credibility is the issue. John Conyers indeed.
om, the amendment passed unanimously in the House, according to the article.
Attacking me doesn’t make the information any more or less true.
BrianE:
If you post stuff about a resolution passed in 2015 and as if it is pertinent to 2022, well, that speaks for itself.
And when you highlight John Conyers (D-MI) that says something as well.
Discernment, in this case? Not so much. Just my assessment.
Have an great Thanksgiving anyway.
om, the amendment was attached to the military aid to Ukraine for 2016. Congress recognizes Ukraine has a problem.
If you read what I posted earlier, Ukraine for the first time ever in 2020 commemorated the Holocaust, something Europeans had been observing for 25 years. While that could be taken as a failing of Ukraine, it also possibly signals a change in attitude of the people of Ukraine.
I’m trying to fully understand what’s going on– what the cultural and historical dynamics are and the relationship between Russia and Ukraine, and whether or not a negotiated settlement is possible.
Anyway, have a great Thanksgiving.
Yep Ukraine has a problem, Roosia has declared a Special Military Operation on them. Roosia is currently trying to destroy Ukrainian electrical infrastructure. People may freeze to death, not in Western Europe. Sucks to have Roosia as a neighbor, whatever Azov is or was.
Not the same as whatever problems Ukraine had in 2015 (BHO and Brandon were in charge then). After President Trump was elected the Ukraine problem became a cause for impeachment (remember quid pro quo?); not BHO, Brandon, Hunter, Burisma, Soros, or Roosia.
It would seem that Belarus, Roosia’s ally in the Special Military Operation, has even more recent problems than Ukraine regarding the Holocaust, particularly in 2021. So it is complicated business sorting out all the lesser degrees of evil?
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2021-12-19/ty-article/.premium/israeli-historians-belarus-blurring-holocaust-with-genocide-legislation/0000017f-ef3a-d8a1-a5ff-ffba160f0000
Turtler has provided voluminous informative comments about Ukraine for a few months now.
So, how many neo-nazis are there in Ukraine, really? It’s a matter of definitions, as so many things are.
In the US a neo-nazi is one who’s skeptical about Maricopa County’s voting arrangments, one who doesn’t like porn in elementary school libraries, one who says Michael Brown didn’t have his hands up.
From which it follows that the problem of neo-nazis in Ukraine may not be a matter of neo-nazis in Ukraine but of people in Ukraine whom other people dislike.
Could be that the Ukes, having been holodomorized by the Russians, were willing to throw in with the Germans when the latter showed up. Anybody want to argue it looked like the worse of two choices at the time? Then the Germans did what Germans do and so….. But some traditions may have lasted. Not PRO nazi, but for some it’s the only organized and familiar way to be anti-Russian.
For grins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_AlqPNg4xQ There are maybe fifty different covers of the song.
“sokoly” is, iirc, “falcon” which is anybody with a horse and a sword. Lots of folks have wanted a piece of Ukraine over the years. So…come on, falcons, we have work to do.
RicharAubtey:
Female vocalist with English subtitles:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=10Ha80EgaB0
Our Thanksgiving special offering this Sunday is designated to Samaritan’s Purse Ukraine Relief. Those fundie Christians are at it again!
Surely there’s a more compassionate way to respond to this poor woman:
Jan. 6 staff angry with Liz Cheney for overfixation on Trump
She’s sick and needs help. Have they no decency?
I’m not so concerned about the labels, Neo-Nazi or Neo-Fascist but whether the distinction is warranted based on their actions.
Do the Nazi’s hate Jews, Poles and Gypsies, while the Fascists hate only Poles?
There are videos on Youtube, purporting to show Azov battalion members shooting Russian POW’s, possibly in response to Russian atrocities.
Bret Baer interviewed Zelensky some time ago and asked him about the charges of what would amount to war crimes, and Zelensky’s reply– “they are what they are.”
At this point, the US should encourage Ukraine to seek a realistic settlement.
https://www.independentsentinel.com/this-was-how-zelensky-dealt-with-the-azovs-shooting-russian-pows/
BrianE:
Realistic to who? Roosia gets what Roosia wants?
Whatever.
Do Roosians hate Ukrainians? Do tell.
Who specifically invaded who? You have a problem remembering some basic facts it seems.
IIRC there were mass graves found in a few Ukrainian places liberated from Roosia.
But, but, but Azov.
Such a sad clown.
Brian E:
I think you should ask yourself why you are ignoring the obvious offenses of the Russians and picking on the much smaller ones of the Ukrainians, as well as the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine.
om, we’re not sending hundreds of billions of dollars to Russia.
I think Russians don’t hate Ukrainians as much as feel superior.
Are you using the fact of the Russian invasion as justification for war crimes?
Please send me a link to those stories.
Let’s keep this about the issues.
Brian E:
Do your own homework.
Vlad (Roosia) seems hell bent on destroying Ukraine as a country, or is that another thing you can’t seem to understand? And how precisely would you know what Russians feel about Ukrainans? They just feel superior? Sort of like what the German Nazis felt about all Slavs, not to say what they felt about the Jews? So the Roosians (Vlad and his junta) are just ignorant bigots?
Indiscriminate destruction of civilians is a war crime Brian E. Just a few 100 cruise missiles launched into Ukraine in the last month Brian E. Do you pay attention to anything?
Do your own homework.
Videos of Roosian soldiers shooting and looting civilians are on the web. Videos of shot up Ukrainian civilians in cars are on the web. BBC and other major networks extensively covered mass graves with executed civilians that were found in Bucha(?) after the Roosian “liberators” fled (feinted) from Kiev.
You wish to be ignorant and lazy. Do your own homework.
Neo, I’m trying to understand exactly who is the country we’re defending.
There appear to be plenty of people commenting that will defend Ukraine.
I’m consorting with the enemy here– citing David Ignatius, but there is some justification to Russia’s claim to Crimea.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/02/david-ignatius/historical-claim-shows-why-crimea-matters-russia/
Oh
https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1596170059915079680
BrainE:
If the Kerch Bridge from Russia into Crimea is further damaged or destroyed will that be a war crime?
IIRC Roosia took Crimea from Ukraine by force of arms in 2014. So if Ukraine takes it back will that be another Ukrainian war crime?
Doing your homework for you, only once though:
https://www.history.co.uk/articles/putin-s-gamble-russia-s-2014-invasion-of-crimea
Do tell.
Who needs justification when you have an army or airborne forces?
Roosia wants.
Roosian army and airborne forces couldn’t pull off the second Crimea-type assault on Kiev in 2022. For some reason the Ukrainians didn’t trust Vlad and the Roosians, must be because they are war criminals.
Why Crimea matters? Sebastapol, making the Black Sea a Roosian Lake Again.
Do tell.
Oh
https://twitter.com/RTShackelford/status/1591688004783177729
One of the potenkin villages on the black sea
https://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2022/11/thanksgiving-myth-or-problematic.html?m=1
“If the Kerch Bridge from Russia into Crimea is further damaged or destroyed will that be a war crime?” -om
Based on the current definition of war crime, probably. Just as Russia targeting Ukraine’s energy/electric infrastructure is a war crime.
My guess that Russians have a superiority complex regarding Ukraine is anecdotal, based on a few Russians and Ukrainians I’ve known.
That bbc story you linked to indicates the referendum by Crimeans about their status was illegal because all of Ukraine didn’t vote.
Let’s say Eastern Washington held a referendum and voted to separate from Western Washington. That would be illegal. Is there any moral justification if Eastern Washington set up checkpoints at their new border and refused to comply with Western Washington laws?
Brian E:
The war that has resulted from the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been discussed in great depth here since it began. Just go to the search bar and do a search and start reading, including all the comments, which are lengthy and numerous. No need to reinvent the wheel here.
Brain E:
Destroying the main bridge that is used by the Roosian military (one and only bridge BTW, rail and automotive) to transport heavy equipment (those are tanks, self propelled arty., TELs, SAM systems, ammunition trains, etc., that is war stuff Brain E) into Crimea, that would be a war crime.
Wow, just wow.
Well, your level of discernment is just amazing.
You have a lot of homework to do.
Oh
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/11/25/eastern-canadian-arctic-has-much-more-sea-ice-than-usual-while-svalbard-polar-bears-deal-with-less/
So the Roosians aided and formented a civil war in the Donetsk and Luhansk (sic) regions of Ukraine and then invaded Ukraine, are
you be ducky with that?
When Roosian-supplied SAMs shoot down Malaysian Airline MH-17 killing ~270+ civilians (over the Donetsk area) that would seem to be a war crime, no? Seems so.
Do your homework. Do pay attention. Some things are really complicated, most of this isn’t.
Europe hasnt given a farthing well correct that it has prayed on the country of my parents birth in the 90s
It isn’t all about Cuba.
Brain E:
It’s kind of funny but working with a large group of Ukrainians (1998) in a large church construction project none of them ever mentioned Russians.
Interacting weekly at work with Russian refugees, for over nine years (2012-2021) the subject of Ukrainians never came up. There has been a sizable Ukrainian and Russian refugee population in the Tri-Cities for a long time.
But the Roosian govervnent, I just see what they’ve done and said.
Have family here, so I’ll make this short.
I may be wrong about rendering the Kerch bridge inoperable being considered a war crime– but that is incidental to the discussion. Raising the issue of Ukrainian nationalism– be it neo-Nazi or neo-Fascist highlights how difficult a resolution will be.
I’m sure there are fanatical nationalists in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.
Determining how much external forces have influenced the conflict, be it US or Russia is another problem.
Our focus on Russia as enemy distracts us from the real growing threat– China.
Is it time for Europe to take full responsibility for European affairs, or can they not be trusted?
Brain E:
Some of your overdue homework.
The Holodomor from a Ukrainian perspective:
Holodomor – Genocide of the Ukrainian Nation. Part I. Soviet Myths Debunked. Myth 15 (Part I)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPC_1CyxC28
There is a Part II. Too much evil for just one short video.
But, but, but Azov. But, but, but China. But, but, but NATO.
But.
So much incidental? Even the essential facts of the invasion.
But.
Brain E:
Some more of your overdue homework.
The Holodomor from a Ukrainian perspective:
Holodomor – Genocide of the Ukrainian Nation. Part II. Soviet Myths Debunked. Myth 15 (Part II)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJnaFov6uy8
This is Part II. There was too much evil for just one short video.
But, but, but Azov. But, but, but China. But, but, but NATO.
But.
So much incidental? Even the essential facts of the invasion.
But.
if you haven’t figured out who are the kulaks in this situation, I can’t help you,
emptying our arsenals, so we are reduced to pea shooters vs the real enemy that is China, they and India and Pakistan are buying Russian oil, while our diesel trickles to a tiny pool, when we run out of diesel game over,
i don’t fault the azov, you find your strongest fighters where you can, in bosnia there wasnt a unified military structure, just a group of disparate militias, often at odds with each other, as with the serbs or the croats,
miguel:
“If you haven’t figured out ….” Big ego much? Do you pay attention either? Seems not.
It would be a sorry state to rely on you for information or wisdom.
But, but, but China. Who is a client of China nowadays? Roosia? Inconceivable, you know (not).
But, but, but diesel. Okay, any other distractions to throw out here? Kind of a separate problem, like the potential rail strike. Do you always chaff an issue?
Do try to focus for a change.
Sad to be you.
so who’s winning this game in the long run, shambling is our undertaker, and mcconnell hands him the shovel
More chaff from miguel.
What does the Holodomor have to do with the current situation in Ukraine?
Do you mean the fact that parts of Ukraine were affected differently?
History professor Robert Thurston notes this:
“It is also notable that the nationalist Ukrainian view of the Soviet famine of 1932-33 as the Holodomor — literally hunger death, or commonly in English the “terror famine,” an induced, genocidal famine — has not figured much in recent discourse on the Euromaidan. Here, too, are different historical memories; in western Ukraine, which was part of Poland in the 1930s and did not experience famine, and in Ukrainian studies centers from Harvard to Edmonton, the Holodomor is an article of faith. (Yana Pitner has an excellent review essay on this subject at H-Russia.) Under President Viktor Yushchenko, whose government leaned west, the Ukrainian Rada (parliament) passed a law in 2006 declaring that, “The 1932-1933 Holodomor in Ukraine is [sic] an act of genocide of the Ukrainian people” and “The State shall ensure favorable conditions for the research of the 1932-33 Holodomor in Ukraine and commemoration of its victims on the basis of a relevant national program, annual financing of which shall be made from the State Budget of Ukraine.”
“Yet in the regions that were part of Soviet Ukraine in the early 1930s, the question of causation and intent, if any, of the famine is much disputed, as it is in a great deal of scholarship in the West. This is not the place to take up that debate; suffice it to note here that in the summer of 1941, when the Germans crossed over the border that had existed between the USSR and Poland up to September 1939 — that is, as the attackers went into the part of Ukraine that had been Soviet since 1918-20 — they reported a distinctly cooler attitude on the part of the local populace than they had encountered in western Ukraine. If memories of the famine had been terrible in central and eastern Ukraine, where, incidentally, the death toll in 1932-33 was very high in Russian-speaking areas, the response to the Germans should have been even more positive there. The opposite occurred.”
https://hnn.us/article/154906
The only reason the genocide against Jews and Poles by Ukrainian Fascists has relevance today is they continue to embrace and spout racist rhetoric, and their willing use of force could just as easily turn against any Ukranian leader whose policies they don’t like.
“… the primary threat posed by groups such as Azov is not to the Russian state — Russia happily supports extreme Right-wing elements in its Wagner mercenary group and in the separatist republics, after all — nor to Western nations whose disaffected citizens may find themselves drawn to a combat role alongside them. Instead, the threat is to the future stability of the Ukrainian state itself, as Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have long warned. While they may be useful now, in the event of the decapitation or evacuation of Ukraine’s liberal government from Kyiv, perhaps to Poland or Lviv, or more likely, in the event of Zelenskyy being forced by events to sign a peace deal surrendering Ukrainian territory, groups like Azov may find a golden opportunity to challenge what remains of the state and consolidate their own power bases, even if only locally.”
https://unherd.com/2022/06/the-truth-about-ukraines-nazi-militias/
oh not that jackass, next we bring up sheila kirkpatrick, they no longer have the discernment to hire a richard pipes, who did the best analysis of lenin bar none,
i put to you a simple question, when the people that took an unnatural joy in seeing cities burn, are all in ukraine what does it tell us,
Well said miguel, and game, set, match. Where the Biden alliance stands (including the MSM) is a perfect reverse barometer.
Brian E poses questions about Ukrainian and Russian attitudes and when history is presented he skirts around it. When the Roosia pretext for the invasion of Ukraine is stated to de-Nazify Ukraine the Azov fascists become giants, supermen able to topple the entire Ukrainian nation, but later in his citation the Azov are said to possibly only have local influence. Which is it, Brian, both? Yep that brilliant analysis from 6/2022 has aged well. Will the Ukrainians be forced to give up the outskirts of Kharkhiv and all of Kherson? Oopsie. Crocodile tears probably from that genius cited by Brian if Ukraine is turned into a clone of Belarus by Vlad. You see then the Azov supermen would threaten Ukraine stability. Not a Roosian hostile invasion, the Azovs. Pure genius, Brian.
When the Wagner Group is shown to have fascist tendencies that is ignored as is the rhetoric from Roosian “ultranationalists.” If he was paying attention, Brian E could have claims that Ukraine is the realm of Satan, are just backward, mislead, Russians and if they don’t come back to mother Roosia they will just have to be killed. Brian E just hasn’t been paying attention.
As regards Miguel, it is hard to tell what he is saying, because he can’t be bothered to use punctuation. If he is saying that Ukrainians cheering when Russian cities burn, well Roosia did invade Ukraine not too long ago and continue in their efforts to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure as winter comes on. So that may make Ukrainians less sympathetic for facilities in Russia that burn or go boom. Unfortunately for Miguel, he may not understand that winter in Ukraine is not like winter in Florida. Miguel may not understand that unsafe drinking water (water treatment plants and sewage treatment plants) requires electricity, even in Florida. Even those backward Ukrainian peasants know these things.
no all the vekakte media, and corporate america, and academia, those people the ones who ask for your pronouns before they give you a glass of water, this war is a means to our end, you have to blind inside a sense deprivation chamber not to realize this,
we aren’t giving the russians 100 billion dollars, for a merely 750 k to the right parties, they shut the pipelines and stopped the permitting of oil leases, now forrest gump would know that was exactly the wrong thing to do, but he is above the standards of who is considered the top ranks of the government,
Brian E:
You do recall that during those old timey days of the 1930-1940s fascists and Nazis weren’t just found in Germany or in the predecessors of today’s Azovs? You know those countries such as Spain, Italy, France, England, the Balkans, Hungary, even some in the USA, IIRC. Thankfully we now have Antifa and the media working tirelessly to root them out of America (sarc). Good to know you are more concerned with the Azovs than with Vlad and the Roosians, because “racism.”
Sad.
Miguel:
Try punctuation and less chaff.
we are concerned with this country, because it’s being torn down and defecated on, 5 million invaders have come in thanks to mayorkas and garland, we were humiliated on the afghan plain, in a way that hasn’t happened in probably 900 years,
All true, and the connection to Vlad and Ukraine is?
Look, a shark jumps in the Black Sea!
“I thought it was just Russian propaganda to consistently refer to the Nazism in Ukraine– just the long enmity between Nazi socialism and Soviet communism– but apparently there is some undercurrent of Nazism in Ukraine politics.”
Oh, good grief, Brian.
Ukraine didn’t invade its sovereign neighbor. Russia did. Ukraine didn’t annex part of its neighbor’s territory. Russia did. Ukraine didn’t target civilian apartment complexes, shopping malls, food storage facilities, water treatment plants, and sewage treatment plants. Russia did. Ukraine didn’t commit mass rape, run torture chambers, execute civilians, and produce mass graves in occupied territories. Russia did. Ukraine isn’t targeting its neighbor’s electrical power and heat generation plants in a stated effort to freeze millions of civilians to death this winter. Russia is.
Ukraine didn’t announce that the intent of its special military operation is the destruction of its neighbor’s country and culture. Russia did. Ukraine isn’t running “filtration camps” where civilians are taken by the thousands to be “re-educated” and, if they resist, “eliminated.” Russia is. Ukraine isn’t removing tens of thousands of its neighbor’s children from their homes and taking them to Russia for adoption so they grow up believing they are Russian and hating their own culture. Russia is.
Ukraine isn’t acting like the Nazis did. Russia is.
In light of all of the above, your focus on Ukrainian “Nazism” and not Russian genocide is silly and is almost a textbook example of a concern troll. I’ll leave it to you to demonstrate whether that label is accurate.
mkent:
To “Brian E” it seems all those things are “incidential” or to be ignored. Because Azov, or something.
mkent,
The news is full of Russian atrocities.
I’m interested in finding out who the country we’re sending potentially hundreds of billions of dollars is. That’s harder to find.
I’ve read these ultra-nationalist groups are essentially dictating policy of the Ukranian government through coercion. Real or propaganda? Were these groups responsible for preventing the Minsk agreement from being implemented, which could have ended the eastern civil war?
I’m concerned because these groups were involved in the 2014 coup, with the encouragement of the US government, where a duly elected president of Ukraine, Victor Yanukovych was overthrown. Whether or not he was a thug/Russian dupe he was elected. He was never impeached or legally removed from office, nor did he try and impose a dictatorial regime. True or Russian propaganda?
Brian E:
Just consider using neo’s search function and looking into Turtler’s comments regarding Yanukovych as well as the Minsk agreement.
You could do that and get your answers. As neo said to you earlier, it’s all there.
Playing dumb isn’t a good act. Here is a hint (Roosian propaganda).
Do your homework.
“I’ve read these ultra-nationalist groups are essentially dictating policy of the Ukranian government…”
In light of the news that tens of thousands of civilians are being bombed, raped, kidnapped, tortured, and killed, your real concern is that ultra-nationalist groups are dictating policy? You are a concern troll.
“Were these groups responsible for preventing the Minsk agreement from being implemented, which could have ended the eastern civil war?”
There is no eastern civil war. Ukraine was *invaded* by the sovereign state of Russia.
“I’m concerned because these groups were involved in the 2014 coup…”
Ukrainian nationalists *opposed* the 2014 coup but were quickly overwhelmed by Russian naval infantry.
“…with the encouragement of the US government…”
The U. S. government opposed the 2014 coup but was not willing to go to war against Russia to overturn it.
“…where a duly elected president of Ukraine, Victor Yanukovych…”
Who had his election opponent poisoned with dioxin. The would-be assassins, once identified, fled the country and now live in Moscow in luxury apartments owned by the Russian government.
“…was overthrown…”
Fled the country to live in Moscow in a luxury apartment owned by the Russian government.
“He was never impeached or legally removed from office…”
He was impeached by the Ukrainian parliament by a 9-1 vote, tried by the Ukrainian Supreme Court, convicted, and removed from office.
“…nor did he try and impose a dictatorial regime.”
Instead of implementing the EU / Ukraine Accession Agreement that had passed the Ukrainian parliament by a 10-1 margin, he instead tore up that agreement and announced that Ukraine would join the Eurasian Alliance with Russia. Under such alliance, all future candidates for government office would have to be approved by Russia before appearing on the ballot.
You’re so concerned about things that didn’t happen. Perhaps show a little concern for the genocide that actually is.
mkent:
Isn’t it curious that Brian E is fixated on Yanukovych and his ouster in 2014.
Brian E hasn’t said squat or acknowledged Roosian seizure of Crimea in 2014. Roosia wants.
Yanukovych was the Governor of Donetsk Oblast from 1997 to 2002. I would wonder where the idea of the separatist Donetsk region came from, eh, Brian E? Its is convienient that he is a kept Putin minion in Moscow since 2014? Da!
Roosian propaganda works; Nazis, Satanists, CIA, NATO. Hook, line, and sinker. Flopping on the deck.
om: It seems some people can’t see the forest for the saplings. On the one side we have genocide. On the other we have improper tattoos. Um….yeah.
1. Concern troll? That’s your best insult? At least om came up with calling me dumb.
I can’t help you if you don’t see para-military groups coerce through intimidation/violence national policy. You wouldn’t like it if BLM/Antifa were doing the same thing here.
2. It is a civil war. The Donbas region was seeking federalization at the same time Ukraine was declaring its independence. In 1994, a referendum was held in the Donbas which overwhelmingly voted for federalization and recognition of the Russian language as an equal in official use.
3.The nationalists were opposed to the coup overthrowing a President that appeared to be favoring Russia over EU? Not likely
4.The US government opposed the coup? McCain met with the opposition leaders. Nuland was out and about handing out treats to the protestors.
“The extent of the Obama administration’s meddling in Ukraine’s politics was breathtaking. Russian intelligence intercepted and leaked to the international media a Nuland telephone call in which she and U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Geoffey Pyatt discussed in detail their preferences for specific personnel in a post??Yanukovych government. The U.S?favored candidates included Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the man who became prime minister once Yanukovych was ousted from power. During the telephone call, Nuland stated enthusiastically that “Yats is the guy” who would do the best job.”
“Nuland and Pyatt were engaged in such planning at a time when Yanukovych was still Ukraine’s lawful president. It was startling to have diplomatic representatives of a foreign country—and a country that routinely touts the need to respect democratic processes and the sovereignty of other nations—to be scheming about removing an elected government and replacing it with officials meriting U.S. approval.”
“Washington’s conduct not only constituted meddling, it bordered on micromanagement.”
https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy
6. Yushchenko was elected in 2004 despite the poisoning (or because of it– sympathy). Even though he talked about Ukraine’s European connection, he was defeated in 2010 by Yanokovych, probably by the reform platform he ran on. Yushchenko’s platform included “Restore financial stability in the country by implementing the International Monetary Fund reforms and a balanced budget”– which in other words, austerity. Nothing like telling the truth to get you fired.
7. 8. He was overthrown. He left for Crimea, then Russia, fearing he would be assassinated. “…there were no articles of impeachment brought against Yanukovych. Instead, the Verkhovna Rada voted on February 22, 2014 to “remove Viktor Yanukovych from the post of president of Ukraine” on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties, and to hold early presidential elections on May 25.” – Wikipedia
9. He didn’t agree to the terms for joining the EU because of the austerity program the country would have to endure to become a member. In 2013 Ukraine’s per capita GDP was just over $4,000. Greece, one of the poorer EU member’s per capita GDP was $21,000 at the same time. It would have been suicide (as opposed to assassination).
10. “Under such alliance, all future candidates for government office would have to be approved by Russia before appearing on the ballot.” mkent
I’m unfamiliar with this. Please provide a link to the terms of the agreement.
Everything about what is happening in Ukraine points to the terribly divided nature of Ukraine. There is no chance Ukraine will ever regain control of Crimea or the Donbas region, especially given the influence by the ultra-nationalists.
The war won’t last another year. Rather than destroy Ukraine in a senseless attempt to defang Russia, we should encourage/force Ukraine to accept a settlement. It’s only our money that is allowing Russia to destroy Ukraine.
Those three areas are majority/near majority ethnic Russian.