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Home » All the voting fraud possibilities, categorized

All the voting fraud possibilities, categorized

The New Neo Posted on by

As I’ve written before, there is no way to know – and no way to prove, which is far more important – that there was enough fraud to have determined the outcome of this election. That doesn’t mean there can’t be very strong suspicions.

But I’ve noticed in the comments here and elsewhere a number of people saying something like, “Oh, so you think this election was pure as the driven snow?”, as though that would be the only alternative way to look at it: fraudulent election or squeaky-clean election.

So I decided to write a post about the range of possibilities I see:

(1) No fraud, just a straight election helped by the Gramscian march and media lies, leading to a good showing by Democrats despite how poorly they’ve governed.

(2) No fraud, but the Democrats’ legally exploiting the more relaxed voting rules (ballot harvesting, for example) changing the results in their favor from what they would have been without those rules changes.

(3) Some fraud occurred in some places, but it didn’t affect any elections that wouldn’t have gone that way anyway.

(4) Some fraud occurred in some places, and it affected a few election results.

(5) Some fraud occurred in some places, and it affected many election results.

What point of view a person holds on this issue helps determine whether the person sees a solution, and if so then what the solution might be. However, I do believe in general that focusing on fraud depresses voter turnout on the right, amplifying the effect of whatever fraud has occurred. So it has a significant downside.

I also strongly believe that the voting rules must be tightened up anyway even if there was no fraud or not much fraud. I have said since 2020 that the perception of fraud is nearly as bad as fraud itself, although the two go somewhat hand in hand. Once the rules are relaxed, the perception of possible massive fraud is basically unavoidable. However, how they can be tightened up again is a difficult problem to solve unless a state is already red, as I wrote in this post from yesterday.

It’s a race between voting security and the Democrats’ argument about voting “suppression”. Note, by the way, that Europe comes down on the side of voting security; we are perhaps the only nation that votes in the bizarre fashion that now seems to have become law in so many states.

Commenter “Geoffrey Britain” has asked, “on what basis can we assume that they are not engaged in fraud to the maximum of which they are capable?” That’s a good question, I believe. I think the answer is that of course they might be engaged in that much fraud, and anyone is welcome to assume it. However, they might not be able to engage in as much outright fraud as one might think, even with the new rules. Remember back in 2020 how many allegations there were that GOP observers were ejected from their posts and that counting went on without them in many Democratic strongholds? Or that they were forced to “observe” from so far away that it was meaningless? In 2022, if there have been any such allegations, they have been few and far between. It also may be that the Democrats realized that maximally exploiting the loopholes in the newer rules regarding ballot harvesting and the like would be enough to give them victory. If they knew that would do the trick, why commit fraud and risk getting caught?

At any rate, we’ve also learned that once an election has taken place and winners announced, there is no going back even in the unlikely event the courts were to rule there was fraud. So this election will be over as soon as the final results are tallied. I believe it’s counterproductive to use assumptions about fraud as an excuse not to look at all the other problems that might be able to change things for the better if they were solved. That may be an insurmountable task as well, but that’s the way forward in my opinion.

Comments

All the voting fraud possibilities, categorized — 44 Comments

  1. If the GOP wants to win elections it must improve it’s ground game at the state level and take full advantage of each state’s voting laws. They need to take a hard look at each race that was winnable but was lost and figure out how it was lost to improve future campaigns. Just passing losses off a voting fraud does not solve any problems. As noted even if fraud were proven the results of the election would still stand.

  2. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/11/how_wisconsin_streetfighters_disrupted_a_democrat_ballotgathering_system.html

    The Democrats rely on fake voters on the rolls. These fake voters number in the millions. In states where the rolls are more honest, Republicans win. Where they aren’t, Democrats win.

    Democrats lie, slander, steal and cheat relentlessly. They routinely and regularly abuse the rule of law and the constitution. They commit crimes with impunity while persecuting Republicans. Why would anyone give them the benefit of the doubt with regard to elections?

    Elections are the single most important activity when it comes to retaining power. If they lie, slander, steal and cheat in every other aspect of everything they do, why in the world would anyone think that they would be clean and honest when it really, really matters?

    They may be evil, but they aren’t that damn stupid. Anyone who gives them the benefit of the doubt clearly is.

  3. Bucky,

    Prove the fraud and then shove the noses of every Democrat voter in the mess they endorse. Make sure those Democrats know how evil they are. Some of them will be capable of enough embarrassment to support honest elections.

    This is the only path to stop our national descent into banana republic despotism. Only path.

    We are the worst in the world. How many Democrat voters know that? A year from now, it needs to be the single best understood fact about our government. It needs to be known by every American old enough to read.

  4. I go with 1 and/or 4. And yes, Bucky is right. It would help if the Republican “leaders” actually lead, got out and fight for candidates.

  5. stan:

    I agree that one way in which the right has erred is not making it crystal clear how aberrant and unusual our voting procedures are, especially compared to those of a Europe they seem to revere in other ways.

    I disagree, however, with the idea that most Democrats will care or be convinced by this argument, or that convincing them would lead to going back to the old ways. The Democrat leaders are determined that the new tools stay in place. The Democrat voters are convinced that those on the right who think the rules enable fraud are dangerous insurrectionist conspiracy theorists.

  6. It’s like a plane crash: airplanes don’t crash because one thing went wrong, they crash because multiple things go wrong at the same time.

    Same idea here. The Republicans did poorly because multiple things worked against them. You can start with the Sovietization of nearly all American media, add in the GOP getting outspent in several important races (and the flip side of that coin, Mitch McConnell withholding money in winnable races because he disliked who was running), Lindsey Graham bizarrely suggesting a nationwide abortion ban 6 weeks before the election, and on and on.

    There is always some cheating that goes on, mainly by Democrats, who do it for the same reason a dog licks his privates. When added to the factors above, it gave the Dems the last little bit they needed to “win” close races.

    All the various forms of election fraud should be thought of as being just as serious as financial crimes like wire fraud, check kiting, or money laundering, crimes which, by the way, people do serious prison time for.

  7. I’ll go with #1, #2, and #4. In some places (Arizona) the fraud and malfeasance are obvious; on the Left Coast, their voting systems are so hopelessly compromised that citizens may never know who actually won state-wide elections.

  8. Great list of alternatives, and while I’m at (5) for 2020, a bit less fraud (4) for 2022, it’s also clear the Dems did a LOT that was legal & only quasi-illegal (ballot harvesting): pushing less active folk to get registered, and all registered in Dem areas to sign mail-in ballot envelopes, with most of them actually even voting. Including Dem nurses in nursing homes “helping” their senile patients vote.

    one way in which the right has erred is not making it crystal clear how aberrant and unusual our voting procedures are, especially compared to those of a Europe they seem to revere in other ways.

    YES – all Republicans should be repeating this, and making it a joke. Including pointing out the UN & BBC & even US State Department positions on mail-in vs in-person voting (until State changes).

    It doesn’t change most Dems – but it makes Independents more likely to NOT accept the Dem demonization.

    “However, I do believe in general that focusing on fraud depresses voter turnout on the right, amplifying the effect of whatever fraud has occurred. So it has a significant downside.”
    I suspect the demoralization downside is actually overbalanced by the anger at injustice extra enthusiasm against it.

    Since 2020, because Trump has been claiming fraud, most Reps, not just GOPe, have avoided discussing fraud more openly because they don’t want the “election denier” label. Kari Lake’s great verbal comeback to a reporter wasn’t enough to save her in AZ – but lack of GOP advertising was certainly a problem there.

    how they can be tightened up again is a difficult problem to solve
    Humor. Laugh at them. Compare the Dems to “National Socialists”, and repeat how most other countries succeed in counting valid paper ballots on Election Day. Nothing will work on many Dems, but few folk like to be laughed at.

    Monty Python was hugely influential in laughing at Christianity, and turning young folk against going to Church.

    To be argumentatively nit-picky from the prior thread – you say you have no idea how I could mean something and then articulate what I meant:
    I have no idea why you write “DeSantis hasn’t shown he can be as good a leader and, importantly, vote-generator as Trump.” I think that’s incorrect. Of course, DeSantis has never been in a national election, so he couldn’t possibly have shown it or not shown it on a national basis.
    Exactly.
    He hasn’t, because he couldn’t, shown it on a national basis. That’s what primaries are for.

    Trump increased his vote total from ~62 million to ~75 million, despite huge negative publicity as well as the COVID pandemic. Mostly non-college grad workers — who are among those in Florida now supporting DeSantis.

    That’s where Trump has gotten very weak since 2020. He hasn’t helped the election of enough Republicans to Congress from the all-important swing states, …the “mean tweets” are directed, instead of to Democrats – or even to his rival Republicans in debates during an active campaign – at fellow Republicans… one wonders whether the stress and the persecution (including current legal jeopardy of him and his loved ones) has finally gotten to him and is affecting him negatively.

    To this anti-elitist college grad, it certainly seems Trump’s negatives helping Dems is greater than his own anti-elitist positives helping his endorsed swing state picks. When Trump himself is not on the ballot. And his endorsed candidates like Oz & Walker have their own personal weaknesses.

    Somewhere else you noted that Trump is a bit like a wounded lion, and hurt that those Reps he helped, like DeSantis, seem so non-grateful to him. Is DeSantis being pushed by Dems as a lesser threat, lesser change agent, than Trump? Certainly. By NeverTrumpers, by war-wanting M-I-C folk, by the Bushes, Chenys, McCains, and most GOPe folk in Washington DC? Yep, they’re all on board with “Blame Trump, Dump Trump, NOW!”

    It doesn’t convince me – if Trump runs, I’ll be supporting him. And then … the complaint that Trump is “bad” because he complains about a rival applies in reverse, those who complain about Trump in favor of DeSantis are doing the bad thing they say Trump is doing. If you fight fire with fire, you can’t easily say using fire should be disqualifying. Or insults, or mean tweets, or critical blog posts.

    DeSantis has certainly not yet shown even in Florida that he is opposed to the current DC based GOPe — and my own hope for an earlier return to a Great America is to get rid of that GOPe. And yes, it’s not clear what he could do before getting elected President.

    The 2022 non-red wave was far far more the fault of mediocre GOPe – who don’t want to be swept onto the dustheap of history just yet, by Trump or Tea Party or anybody. They’re not quite RINOs, but often close.

    Lindsey Graham’s pre-election introduction of a national bill to ban abortion after 15 weeks certainly deserves special mention when the under 30 demographic pro-abortion voters voted some Dem +29 (~64-35?). Huge mistake.

    It’s Tuesday night and I was going to wait to hear (/read later) what Trump would announce, but I woke up early this morning and have been thinking about these things all day.

    Until he loses in 2024, it’s Trump’s GOP party of voters – and the GOPe folk who don’t work with Trump are the ones not helping the GOP.

    BTW – notice how little is reported on the swing state races that the non-Trump endorsed Rep also failed to win? I looked a bit, but didn’t see it easily. I guess that looking at RCP Lean Rep; or Lean Dem, and if Rep was Trump endorsed, his record of wins for endorsed Reps is about the same, or better, than the record of wins for the non-Trump endorsed Reps.

  9. I would say that given the size, scope, and heterogeneous nature of our election system statictically speaking, 1 and 2 are virtual impossibilities. Human nature being what it is, no matter what there’s always going to be some fraud. And there’s often evidence of it that trickles out, usually long after the fact though.

    As to whether there’s enough fraud to effect the result of any given election, that’s a little bit more difficult to know with absolute certainty. Of course people are going to believe whatever they’re going to believe with regards to these things. The only thing that can be done is to attempt to shore up the process whenever and wherever it’s possible. Naturally anywhere where Republicans have control there should be legislative efforts to curtail mass mail-in voting, protect poll watchers, and pass voter ID laws and such.

    Election fraud is a very great evil. I’d go so far to say it should be worthy of life in prison.

  10. There’s a level of political monoculture coupled with lax election rules that makes the extent of fraud almost moot. The Left Coast got there long ago. The bigger the fraud, the more people have to be in on it, and the less the fraud is even needed.

    I live near Seattle. One year I got a new boss, from Tennessee. He said he was interested in finding a place to worship. I said “There’s lots of churches near here. Just look for the rainbow flags”.

    Because there are a limited number of spoils to go around eventually the monoculture will have to break up into at least Leftist factions. Doesn’t do us any good; finding a state nearby not run by crazy people that disenfranchise you is your best bet. If you don’t want to do that because of work/family/friends, well those things are clearly more important to you than politics and I’m not the one to tell you they should not be.

  11. stan (2:45 pm) said: “Make sure those Democrats know how evil they are. Some of them will be capable of enough embarrassment to support honest elections.”

    I personally know a few Democrats; they are good people and they are plenty capable of embarrassment, should they be made aware of certain facts / factors. However, for the most part, they are not aware and I fear there is little reason to fancy that they ever may be made aware.

    But what stan says does *not* apply to Democrat politicians and leaders (especially). Those are incapable of embarrassment. As El Rushbo used to intone, Democrats [‘ leaders] are anatomically different from the rest of us: they have no shame gland.

    While I’m at it . . . regarding points (4) and (5) . . .

    There is no need to “engage[ ] in fraud to the maximum of which they are capable”; there is the need only to engage in sufficient fraud so that key races and outcomes are guaranteed to break the correct way — which is what they are smart enough to do.

    By the way, isn’t it peculiar how lately, key races tend to virtually always break in the Democrats’ favor? Funny thing there. Got any counterexamples? I’d love to see ’em.

  12. Think I am guilty, so my view is 4, they have narrowed down where they need it and to where they can get it. The keys I think for those questions is where is mail voting used. They had over the top in 2020 due to massive mail voting, it got whittle down some.

  13. Was there fraud. Yes. Always is. As others have stated, the question is whether it was enough to make a difference. I don’t know Arizona or Pennsylvania well enough to know if significant fraud in a few, key locations can tip the scales. Maricopa County, AZ has most of the state’s population and I think I’ve heard they recently made it possible for anyone to vote anywhere. I guess that makes things more convenient, but it’s harder to keep track of precincts. Seems like a recipe for fraud, but it doesn’t mean there has to be fraud.

  14. My guess is, just as we are seeing a shift in Republican support (the party now attracts many working class and non-college educated folks) the Democrats are the party of choice for women, especially unmarried women.

    There is a lot of disruption in the status quo and it’s been happening over the past two decades. Still too soon to tell what the new status quo will be, but I think we’re getting close. Network television and big city newspapers have much less power in elections and are being replaced by other things.

    Not especially new, but the trend of voting against a candidate and party rather than for a candidate or party seems to be accelerating. The non-college educated voting Republican are voting AGAINST elites and the unmarried women are voting AGAINST the perception of a patriarchy.

    About 80% of the American voting public appear to be ignorant of the Constitution and American political system and there seems to be little progress in educating them.

  15. Biden “giving” college loan holders $10,000 certainly won some votes.

    Women who believe we are now living in “The Handmaid’s Tale” after Roe was overturned certainly won some votes.

  17. It seems to me that the burden of proof is on election officials to create procedures that give the citizen confidence there is no fraud, not on the citizen to prove there is.

  18. I think we’re trying to be “logical” here about something that is pathological.
    Something that is far worse than any of us can imagine because it exceeds all proper bounds of IMPROPRIETY.
    OTOH, how else is one to understand something? Anything?
    (Which is, or course, the built-in weakness of logical, basically law-abiding, reasonable, DECENT people who SEEK to understand.)

    The analog is what’s starting to be revealed as FTX unravels.
    Totally mind-boggling.
    Think of the Democratic Party’s ballot “practices” as the extensive, psychotic, well-planned FTX scandal/imbroglio but in an electoral context (just as the elaborate and extensive Russiagate was in the context of a diabolical political power-play.)

    FTX was never going to get caught, of course….
    (And neither will the Democratic Party.)

    …BUT…IF FTX ever did get caught, its confederates and fomenters had their escape plan ready and well-rehearsed IN ADVANCE, including all the BS boilerplate about their customers being their number one priority and saving the planet and finding good homes for cruelly abandoned puppies, etc., etc.

    What has the Democratic Party planned in the event THEY DO GET CAUGHT (which of course, as was mentioned above, won’t happen)?

    Or put differently, what has the Democratic Party already planned to PREVENT them from ever getting caught…?

  19. “unmarried women are voting AGAINST the perception of a patriarchy.” How many women, especially in the Dems non-white base, are walking around saying, “I have the perception of patriarchy”. Those unmarried women are often poor, often with children and no father around. They’re voting for someone to take care of them.
    Ben Shapiro pointed out that the GOP won married women. Married women have support from, at least, the husband and often their families and a church. They aren’t desperate for or limited to, government as sole provider. One reason the left hates the nuclear family.

  20. 1A)….especially egregious suppression of information conducted collectively by media and high government officials…possibly legal, but maybe not, depending on intepretation of the In-Kind Contribution rules.

    The poster child here is, of course, the Hunter Biden laptop story.

  22. There is no reasonable objection to reforms that will effect clean elections regardless of which of the five options is accurate. Our election processes are embarrassing in comparison to other first world countries and not a few developing countries. Those who object to conducting elections as places such as Netherlands, France, Japan, Italy, etc., are definitely in the knave category, even if subconsciously. I’ll be happy to dip my finger in blue ink if that is what it takes to experience an election without having to wonder how dirty it is.

  23. in 2005, the carter baker commission said mail voting was flawed, in 2020, there were no less than two exposes one on hbo by helderman*, one on frontline about errors in dominion machines,

    *judge totenberg, who ruled to review said procedures in october 2020, has refused to release the report

  24. While I appreciate the empiricism and logic applied to the notion of D fraud, I am going with my gut. I learned that over the past 15 years dealing with leftist academics. If it stinks in my perception, then there’s a pile of crap close by.

    2020: Trump ahead at 11pm EST, then in all those close states counting is miraculously stopped at the same time and when resumed in the morning a whole bunch of Biden votes found.

    2022: slightly different game here where in close races with the D in possible jeopardy and a close race, “problems” arise and the vote now takes days, where once again, miraculously, the D wins.

    The GOPe retains all their leadership positions. Smells again.

    As I said in a previous thread, we’re not voting or reforming out way out of this.

  26. What’s interesting is that the seats which appear to have flipped the House are in California. So what of that well-oiled fraud machine? Did they just not bother in those areas? I think they didn’t.

    So you know they’re not going to let those seats be in R hands in 2024. The fraud machine is coming to those districts if it’s not there now. In no deep-blue state is any district going to free of it in the future, I imagine. If Republican voters don’t get serious about fixing the problems where they live, you’re not going to see another R-controlled House after this year.

    And it’s only the ones who live there can do it. The national GOP has no interest in doing anything about this, and as neo points out, little power to: running elections is the epitome of local politics. If you want DeSantis, or Trump, or whoever to have a chance in 2024, you have to work to fix the place that you live.

  27. jvermeer; Rufus T. Firefly:

    Unmarried women also tend to be under 30, a demographic that votes heavily Democratic as well.

  28. I’d go with (4.5). Fraud that affected a sufficient number, or nearly sufficient number of elections.

    It’s not going to be a haphazard process.

    The rules are:
    1) Don’t get caught.
    2) Target the key races only.
    3) Wait for the poles to close and measure the number of votes you need in those key races.
    4) Delay, delay, and delay long enough so that you can “find” the quantity of votes you need. Why does this take so long? See rule 1).

    It’s not exactly clear to me why this finding of votes takes so long. But I do believe that this larger amount of time is a “tell” that fraud is taking place.

    My best guess is that it takes time, money and labor to find these votes and to do it in a manner that can’t be proven fraudulent.

  29. Peter Navarro in his report, “The Immaculate Deception” identified these abuses in the 2020 election.

    Some states took steps to secure their election in 2022. But many of these illegal/legal abuses of the system remain.

    I do think we need to find a better way of explaining the illegal abuses of the system– fraud is a pretty broad term.

    Outright Voter Fraud
    1. Bribery
    2. Fake Ballot Manufacturing/Destruction legally cast ballots
    3. Indefinitely confined voter abuses
    5. Ineligible voters and voters who voted in multiple states
    6. Dead voters
    7. Counting ballots multiple times
    8. Illegal out of state voters

    Ballot Mishandling
    1. No voter ID check
    2. Signature match check abuses
    3. “Naked Ballots” lacking outer envelope
    4. Broke chain of custody & unauthorized ballot handling
    5. Ballots accepted without postmarks & backdating of ballots

    Contestable Process Fouls
    1. Abuses of poll watchers
    2. Mail-in & absentee ballots rules violated contrary to state law
    3. Voters not properly registered allowed to vote
    4. Illegal campaigning at poll locations
    5. Ballots cured by poll workers or voters contrary to law

    Equal Protection Clause Violations
    1. Higher standards of certification & ID verification applied to in-person voters
    2. Different standards of ballot curing
    3. Differential and partisan poll watcher treatment

    Voting Machine Irregularities
    1. Large scale voting machine inaccuracies
    2. Inexplicable vote switching and vote surges in favor of one candidate

  33. That Maricopa County Electoral “Screw-Up” sure is a head scratcher.
    (So is that FTX “caper”, by the way!
    So is that transitory inflation.
    So is the southern border crisis.
    So is the supply chain “issue”.
    So is crime in the cities.
    So is…oh, WTH, etc.)

    NONETHELESS(!), there still MIGHT be a chance for a recount IF the margin of difference between the two competing candidates is small enough.
    From the following link: “Recounts cannot be requested by candidates or members of the public, but rather are triggered if there is less than or equal to half of 1% of the total number of votes between the top two candidates…” (whatever that might mean…).
    And so, given the insanely chaotic, criminally absurd—Hobbsian?—electoral environment that IS Democratic-Party-Controlled AZ, what might the odds be of getting that recount? Put another way, will Democratic votes continue to be churned out (or not even churned out but just counted) UNTIL—VOILA!—the number of votes required to squelch that recount is reached?
    Any intrepid bettors here?…(Keep in mind that the required numbers may already—likely?—have been pre-programmed…)

    “Possible recounts loom in Arizona as machine issues marred Election Day”—
    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/possibility-recounts-arizona-machine-issues-occurred-election-day
    Grafs of interest:
    ‘…In the governor’s race, Kari Lake was trailing Secretary of State Katie Hobbs by just 0.7% as of Tuesday night, just shy of the trigger for an automatic recount….
    ‘The Maricopa County Elections Department told Just the News…[that] a random hand count audit on Saturday “validated the accuracy of the tabulation system,” and a “Logic and Accuracy test of tabulation equipment” will follow next week to verify the machine counted accurately.
    ‘ “It has yet to be determined whether the state’s automatic recount statute will be triggered,” the department said….’

    Then there’s this fragment of a detailed description of the election chaos in Maricopa County (RTWT):
    ‘ “Maricopa County was absolutely insane,” Knight said. “I mean, I woke up to messages everywhere about, you know, this polling location is closed, people are in line, they’re kicking them out, this polling location is closed, whatever.”…’

    Well, at least Liz Cheney’s happy…
    “Liz Cheney trolls fellow Republican Kari Lake for losing Arizona governor race”—
    https://justthenews.com/government/congress/liz-cheney-trolls-kari-lake-losing-arizona-governors-election

    Given all the turmoil (or in Cheney’s case, glee), it looks like Webster-Merriam may well have to consider turning “maricopa” into a verb—meaning a “totally coincidental” electoral mugging—e.g.,
    Kari Lake got maricopa-ed in 2022;
    Trump got maricopa-ed in 2020, etc.

  34. If the Democrats are smart, and I think they are when it comes to elections, they maximize the collection of votes everywhere they can, but use them only in races that are close enough to be won with a few more votes. They also seem to focus on what they judge to be the bigger, more impactful races such as governor and US senator.

    It is unlikely that they are committing widespread fraud – by which I mean illegal activity. Doing that on a large scale requires too many people to be involved and therefore makes it very difficult to execute and keep quiet. Thus I’m in agreement with Neo’s item #2.

  36. jvermeer,

    Sorry, I was referring to unmarried, College educated women. I agree with you regarding non-College educated, unmarried women voting for Dems as a substitute bread-winner, especially those with children. And, that attitude certainly pervades the ranks of College educated women in the same situation. As neo pointed out, the “Handmaid’s Tale” fear works on many young woman, and a lot of older, College educated women, especially those with no husband.

    If a woman is married and her husband works she wants his money coming home where she has access to it, not going to the government. It will be interesting to see where married lesbian couples fall in the coming years.

  37. It just amazes me how with one so-so election, AND all the election fraud still not resolved, that y’all are going wobbly on Trump!

    “They (Dems) might be engaged in that much fraud, and anyone is welcome to assume it”

    Welcome to assume it???

    Either we all believe that there was fraud and still is fraud THAT SWINGS several key races in Dems favor, or we don’t.

    Arguing that Trump won’t win in 2024, is by implication taking the postion that the elections are actually legit!

    Say it if that is what you think – Essentially, if there is fraud, I guess that it doesn’t amount to much.

    Saying / implying that election fraud is “hard” or “impossible” to prove is a cop out. Either it exists and is provable that it swung elections (we all know the Dems and their MSM cohorts are actively hiding it – right?), or it doesn’t (and we should just shut up about it).

    Neo seems resourceful, how is it she cannot really find definitive proof one way or another? Instead, offering some nebulous explanation that it is too difficult to actually find evidence that would make the case clear as day.

    Are you telling me Kari Lake election is legit?

    Is the Jan 6 committee not just another attack vector on Trump, or is it legit?

    I’m tired of blogs having me believe the fraud and either not telling me it is a full of ship mirage or giving me some weak kneed explanation why it is difficult to prove.

    Then they inexplicably talk about the election results like they are legit. Which is it?

    “I’ve been saying DeSantis is the better candidate for quite some time, as have many others. Since the 2020 election I haven’t thought Trump could win another”

    Another thing – Suddenly, Desantis is the guy. Really? There has been plenty of content showing how Desantis has morphed to imitate Trump.

    Some jack provided a link to previous posts as if to prove that Harry Mallory was out of touch with Neo’s position.

    Checked it out – very little conversation in those posts that say much about how Desantis is so much better than Trump and how Trump will lose in 2024. In fact, very little critical about Trump at all. What there was as criticism is small potatoes.

    “I do think Trump is having issues, though, as I’ve already indicated.”

    A comment here and there is NOT taking a stand and making the case for Desantis.

    The problem in 2022 is that everyone tries to be Trump to win. They all end up either over-doing it, or being a weak copy.

    Desantis – copycater in chief – won big. (could it be bigger without the fraud?)

    Yes, but Charlie Crist – a RINO who coasted on name recognition into the Dem Gov candidate that even Dem voters don’t trust.

    You know Desantis cannot be it when the establishment GOP seem to be latching onto him as their best hope to be rid of Trump.

    Trump stands up for us.

    Nobody can out-Trump Trump – period.

    He needs to be on the 2024 ticket and we need to be screaming about election fraud and make the local, state and federal GOP politicians actually DO SOMETHING about it!!!

    Time for them to put up or shut up!

    And, same for the bloggers and commentators.

    Or were they BSing us all along forthrightly or by hiding/downplaying their real thoughts for fear of alienating their audience?

    Only to tell us that they’ve been saying “X” since a long time ago. BTW, saying enough multiple X,Y and Zs in little snippets here and there and anyone can claim they’ve been right all along.

    Ok, bring on the barrage of Neo defenders. Just shows, you are then part of the problem too – no independent thought, sheeple – not bothering to really challenge what you are being fed.

  38. when we realize their game, its suddenly forbidden to discuss it,

    so katie hoff in a race where she was owned the stage and the microphone, won it, ok them

    maybe they ran out of ftx cheddar in those races,

  39. Marshall Dillon:

    I don’t think the word “proof” means what you think it means.

    Nor do I think you understand the point of my post, which is that fraud or no fraud the remedy is the same, and that remedy can only be applied in the states that the GOP controls (also see this). Your insults are no substitute for clear thinking.

    I explained in some depth my attitude towards Trump last week (see this), and I assume I’ll write more about it in the not too distant future.

  40. I’m stuck between 4 and 5,

    On 2nd thought all of the above.

    Some areas lots of fraud, others none.

    Unfortunately we have a system designed so nobody knows,

    Bernie was cheated, as was the green candidate Jill Stein.

    An interesting question is why is the voter fraud allowed to continue. Cui Bono?

  42. I gather the Ever-Trump view is that if some “establishment” types lean towards DeSantis, that means he is one of them. That’s an odd view of a founding member of the Freedom Caucus in the House, and a governor who got his state, its children, and working residents through COVID with maximum freedom and minimum damage.

    On fraud and election results: NC has a fairly tight election system, in which fraud is harder to pull off. A left-wing Raleigh news site, WRAL, reports (I’m sure reluctantly) that the NC GOP got its voters out. The party made personal contact with lots and lots of registered Rs and encouraged them to vote absentee or in-person early. We won statewide races.

  44. The 40 year consent agreement was one.

    Fear of targeted by the press. Usual racist BS.

    Gut feeling is selective fraud also helps the eGOP keep power. Or perhaps gop Secretary of State get funding from?

    Ga Secretary of states brother worked for a Chinese company, and supposedly he got funding from the Chinese community.

    And of course Konnetech.

    Yes, and I had a couple of replies on the thread:

    neo on November 16, 2022 at 2:20 pm said:
    Ray SoCa:
    “Allowed to continue” by whom? Did you see this post of mine?

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