I am surprised at how tiny some of these actresses are/were:
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Open thread 9/16/22 — 56 Comments
The mean adult height of people has increased over time, partly due to better childhood nutrition and partly due to just a general preference for taller mates. Apparently from 1896 to 1996 the mean height of adult US females increased from around 158.5cm (5’2) to 163.5cm (5’3).
Bookworm makes a point that sometimes gets lost. Democrats and Republicans used to share the same civic value system. That is no longer true.
“Democrats and Republicans used to have fairly similar concerns — good wages, secure borders, national security, safe neighborhoods, racial harmony, strong families — but they differed about how to achieve those goals. Now, though, the two parts of America have completely different goals. Republicans still want the same things. Democrats want a socialized economy, open borders, one world government, overbuilt urban neighborhoods with free street housing for homeless drug addicts, racial division, and a sexual smorgasbord totally at odds with strong families. These visions cannot be reconciled.”
This has some relationship to the very different moral value system of the two groups (per Haidt). But not entirely. Democrats used to love America. Not anymore. It’s instructive to contemplate how that changed.
“…to contemplate how that changed…”
Oh, that’s an easy one:
If you love America, you’re a mega-dangerous, deplorable, extremist, white-supremacist, radical, insurrectionist, enemy-of-the-people, enemy-of-the-state, wild-eyed, racist, double-semi-fascist, MEGA-MAGA, uber-hating Trumpist.
(Whereas if you want to destroy the country…you’re the complete opposite of the above. It all makes sense…in a kinda way: the important thing is to keep repeating the mantra 24/7 and ratchet up your virtuous hate “to the sticking point”…without actually bothering to think about what you’re really doing. That’s why it’s so important to be virtuous—i.e., hate all the right people (i.e., “vermin”)—24/7.)
From the “Shed-A-Tear” File:
“Manchin Says He May Need 20 GOP Votes for Energy-Permitting Plan.—” https://instapundit.com/542912/
Doesn’t say how tall she is, but…wow, Bridget Fonda.
Nonapod’s point about increasing size is good. I remember being shocked at how short beds were when visiting historical homes when I was a kid.
John Wayne was 6-4. Went to USC in the twenties on a football ride. He was really skinny in high school, but I’d have to guess he was 200 lbs in college. This at a time when consensus all-American linemen weren’t that tall and weighed less than 200. He was a big guy by modern standards. Huge by the standards of his day.
“high-ranking FBI officials were pressuring field agents to fabricate domestic terrorism cases and label people as white supremacists in order to “meet internal metrics.”
“We have more people assigned to investigate white supremacists than we can actually find.”
Dishonest, incompetent and corrupt is no way to go through life. The FBI — now the love children of the Keystone Kops and the Weather Underground.
Indeed, as suggested, heights have increased, both male and female, especially due to massive improvements in childhood nutrition — this affects both the adults and their progeny — overall nutrition improvements have increased heights by as much as five inches in different countries.
“Our World Data further reports that, like in the U.S., women’s heights have increased worldwide over the past 100 years. Some countries show gains in women’s heights of more than 12 cm during this time, which is roughly 4.7 inches.”
Note how the shortest females in those shown are often those born around the turn of the century… those born even 20-30y later average higher.
And consider, also, those females who were 5’5 to 5’7 were, in their time, as though a woman who is 5’9″ or 5’10” today, which is common for many “supermodels”, such as Claudia Schiffer or Elle Macpherson, who are, IIRC, 5’10” and 6′, respectively (and yes, while they are older supermodels, they led the way for the more modern crew, who are similarly often 5’9 or better).
A casual consideration of those shown seemed to suggest that the height of women popular into the 50s and beyond ran more towards 5’5 and 5’6, compared to those in the 30s and 40s, which was somewhat more variable, but ran lower overall.
}}} Doesn’t say how tall she is, but…wow, Bridget Fonda.
According to internet sources she’s 5’6″.
And yes, she has not aged all that well, but many “normal people” do not. She dropped out of the Hollywood life and so does not feel the need to maintain “the look” of fitness so common in Hollywood, having become at least somewhat one of the “normal people” (albeit pretty decently wealthy @ family wealth of 50m).
But yeah, she is posdef not even vaguely recognizable. With many aging actresses, you can at least see the “old them” in the face. If I bumped into her on the street I’d have no idea. At least she hasn’t botoxed herself to death.
P.S., it notes she’s married to Oingo Boingo frontman and regular “score provider” Danny Elfman, whose “niece-in-law”, Jenna Elfman has had a film/TV career, probably the most notably as the titular “Dharma” in “Dharma & Greg”. She is 5’10.
P.S., I also recall reading something like 20y ago that Japanese children were running as much as 3″ taller than their parents, mainly due to much better childhood nutrition.
Most recently fear the walking dead
I’m not surprised how tiny some of these actresses are/were. Gene London (who Philadelphians of my age will remember from Cartoon corners General Store, may he RIP), collected clothing worn by actors/actresses and toured with parts of the collection. I was able to see one of these collections and was amazed at how tiny the waists of many of these actresses were (someone had a waist of 19” – might have been Hepburn). https://www.facebook.com/genelondoncollection/
I am surprised at the height for Mae West. 5’0 is short for a man.
I was surprised at how short so many of the actresses, and actors were. Surprisingly, more the actresses. Maybe half. Or more seemed to be 5’2” or shorter. That was my mother’s height at her tallest (I think she broke 5’ on the way back down). Have had one GF in over a half century anywhere that short. Normal for me was 5’7”-5’8’. 1st wife 5’9’, 2nd one 5’7”, and our daughters are 5’8”. That’s normal for me. Thinking back to that 5’1” girlfriend, I wonder now what I did with her, that short.
As to the actors, I was first surprised that Paul Neumann was taller than Robert Redford. From them playing together, I expected Redford to have been a couple inches the taller. In real life, height in men tends to correlate with dominance. It’s hard to believe that so many of the dominant men back in the Golden Era were such midgets. Today, you wouldn’t notice them in a crowd, they were so short(and thus non dominant).
Apropos of changes in adult (male) height, I remember reading some years back that Hollywood films set in ancient Rome (Ben-Hur, Spartacus, Cleopatra, etc.) gave moviegoers the impression that Roman soldiers were much taller than they actually were– the directors of these ’50s- and ’60s-era films would go to every university in southern California and recruit football players and other athletes (the more deeply tanned the better) to work as extras in scenes requiring one or more Roman legions. In actual fact, most Roman soldiers stood about 5’5″, the minimum height set by the army during the Empire. Julius Caesar, who stood about 5’9″, was considered a tall man in his time.
At the other end, our shortest president, James Madison, was only 5’4″, and Maximilien Robespierre was only 5’3″.
Barry Meislin – I really hope the GOP senators decline to bail out Manchin. His permitting reform is probably marginally better than nothing. If the D team wants to end the career the only Democrat who could conceivably win a Senate seat in WV, the GOP should let them.
It’s funny, I’m 6’½”, and, being in a college town for the last 40y, I don’t think of myself as all that tall (college students run taller than the average person).
Then I go other places, and/or see things like this, and it makes me remember that I am actually fairly tall.
}}} things like this
I meant the male version of this… surprising how many midgets there are in Hollywood. I know Stalone and Tom Cruise are both pretty short, too, as is Robert Downey Jr.
A year ago I might have said that I’m too broad minded to be influenced by the height of a woman. Recently, I’ve been taking stock of my life and was curious about the attraction thing. A person knows their own mind, correct? Not necessarily.
I cataloged the modest number of ladies I had ever dated, weighted by a rough attraction factor. I definitely have a thing for taller and physically more substantial women.
I suspect that early influences from one’s youth have lasting impact. As a pre-teen I was fascinated by Diana Rigg who is near the end of Neo’s video. In high school I dated a girl who was 5′ 11,” about 1/2″ taller than myself. And I had little crush on an older girl (something of a goddess) in high school who was 6′ 1.”
I was always puzzled by the notion that men don’t want to date women who are taller than themselves. That tall women don’t want shorter men, makes more sense to me.
I’m 6′ 1″ and my wife is 4′ 11″. She married me for my height, not my looks, brains or personality.
Well, I’ve always been attracted to taller women (long legs!! ooh la la!) 😀 … my HS sweetheart was 5’11. I was pushing towards 6′ at the time. It also helped that “fashion boots” were popular for men at the time, which meant she could wear heels and not be taller than me.
As I understand it, the height thing is really very significant. From what I’ve read, a physician earning 200k or more a year who is 5’6 is still going to find himself not interesting to a lot of females. So height can even trump income and power to a certain level with female base impulses (ladies: YMMV, this is a generic stat I’ve encountered)
}}} I was always puzzled by the notion that men don’t want to date women who are taller than themselves.
I’ve never had an issue with it, either, but I suspect it ties to the fact that some men have much more fragile egos and far less self-confidence than I do.
}}} Most recently fear the walking dead
Yeah, I noted that when reading about her. But, while a very popular show, she’s not the centerpiece of it, and the various celebrity stuff has not paid her anywhere near as much attention as it did when she was young and very cute (“quelle suprise?” 😀 ), so she’s not as notable as she once was. She still looks pretty good for someone @ 50. Haven’t seen her “in motion” so no idea if she’s @$%#$%#% botoxed herself like an idiot. She seemed unlikely back then but no clue if she shifted.
When Lynda Carter appeared on Supergirl and later in the last scene of WW1984, it was sad how immobile her face was, she’d botoxed so damned much. I’m put in mind of the Katherine Helmond scene in Terry Gilliams’ “Brazil”.
One of my favorite quotes from Dame Judi Dench (I can’t find the exact quote) was something about how she had guaranteed herself all the roles she wanted because she was the only woman over 50 in Hollywood who actually looked her age. 😀 She refuses to use Botox.
Greg Hlatky,
Very funny. And not entirely true, I’m sure.
In college, once I got past freshman year, the class size of most of my classes shrunk way down and there was this married couple in many of them. He was about 6′ 4″ and she was about 4′ 9.”
A dating rule of thumb I’ve heard is that women are looking for the Three Sixes:
* Six feet (height)
* Six figures (salary)
* Six pack (abs)
There are variations.
Took until the very end of the video to reach my height range. It may be that actresses tend to be short so they don’t tower over short actors. Besides liking Tom Selleck as an actor, I liked knowing that if I met him in person he would be taller than I am.
So height can even trump income and power to a certain level with female base impulses
You must be thinking of Mary Queen of Scots and her impulsive second marriage– to Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley, in 1565. Mary was 22, stood 5’10” (freakishly tall for a sixteenth-century woman), and had been widowed for 4 years. Darnley was 19 and over 6 feet tall. The queen described him as “the properest and best proportioned long man that [she] had seen.” According to Antonia Fraser, Mary was delighted to be able to dance with a man who was taller than she was and good-looking to boot. They were married after a courtship of only five months, but the marriage quickly went sour. Darnley was promiscuous, was diagnosed with syphilis, and arranged for the murder of Mary’s private secretary, David Rizzio. The outcome was Darnley’s murder in early 1567, Mary’s role in the plot still an open question.
Side note about David Rizzio: he was a gifted musician as well as a diplomat, and was rumored to be the biological father of Mary’s son, the future James I of England. Mary was six months pregnant when Rizzio was murdered in March 1566. Years later, when James had become King of England and was hailed as “the British Solomon” for his learning, King Henri IV of France quipped, “Of course [James] is like Solomon; his father was the harpist David.”
Ooh, Stuart gossip! 🙂 I had no idea Mary Queen of Scots was so tall.
}}} Ooh, Stuart gossip! ? I had no idea Mary Queen of Scots was so tall.
Neither did I, and yes, at that time, it was certainly an outlier in a big (ar ar) way.
As I recall, from most suits of armor, the typical male knight — who often was amongst the privileged, and thus, better fed class as a child — was about 5’4″. The average American Male could not actually wear most classical suits of armor.
I’d also note that, while I could wear my father’s shirts ( a large) when I was 18, by the time I was 21 I had moved to an XL and could really no longer wear any of them…
P.S., also thankfully, i’ve had fluoridated water all my life, so I have far far better teeth than either of my parents. I had 10 cavities when I was 18 (did not brush my teeth a lot when young). Haven’t had another for 45 years (have brushed my teeth ever since, mind you).
That is another major change in the last 100 years… much better dentistry and access to general dental care. I’ve heard that Clark Gable had dentures, and did not clean them well, so he had truly atrocious breath.
I’m 5’10, my wife is 5’3. My brother, father, and paternal grandfather all 6’0. My mother was 5’9, her parents all above 5’7. However, my paternal grandmother was 4’11. My wife’s mother was barely 5’0, and her father 5’5. My poor daughters…the gene pool somehow conspired to pass along my grandmother’s, and my wife’s parents heights to them. Oldest is 5’2, and youngest 5’0. They’ve never forgiven us for such inheritance :).
physicsguy, like your family, we’ve got a wide variety of ancestral traits and we can explain anything. You never can tell; you may someday have very tall grandchildren.
PA Cat:
Henry VIII was somewhere between 6’2″ and 6’4″, a real giant of a man. Jefferson and Washington were likewise tall, both around 6’2″. We already know about Lincoln. But did you know that Peter the Great was 6’8″.
PA Cat:
Henry VIII was somewhere between 6’2″ and 6’4″, a real giant of a man. Jefferson and Washington were likewise tall, both around 6’2″. We already know about Lincoln. But did you know that Peter the Great was 6’8″?
Steph at 12:20. Thanks for the Gene London mention. I was actually on that show when I was about 9. I sang the Doe A Deer song about the music scale.
No doubt you remember my performance. I was riveting.
In crime fighting these days, they not only have DNA matches, but ancestral DNA databases to look at as well as the ability to estimate some amount of the perp’s appearance from the DNA. For example, eye color can be determined. They claim that they can’t estimate height very well at all.
Jefferson’s Revenge @ 3:58:
I met Gene a few years before he passed, He was a kind and gentle soul, still with a twinkle in his eye in his late 80’s. I still remember the words to “Let’s pretend that its story time…”, as well as to the theme song. And I’ve been known to say “catch this box if you can”, too often to people who haven’t a clue what I am doddering on about.
My first wife was 6-2 (same as me). My second is the runt of her family at 5-7 when everyone else including her mother was 6-0 or taller. First words about my son by the doc doing the C-section was “oh, a linebacker”. On the other hand, my sister and her daughters are all only 5-3.
I think Neo posted a web site where you could plug in parent’s heights and get a fairly accurate approximation of the grown height of the children – this was several years ago. I know it was accurate for me, the 5’7 son of a dad who was 5’10 and a mom who was 5’0. I’m one of those rarities (at least on this blog) who is shorter than his father.
Steph:
I am precisely my mother’s height: 5’4″.
My wife and a friend–I was busy–went to see a touring exhibition of Downton Abbey costumes. She was surprised at how small the wearers had to have been, especially the women. This is early twenty-first century people.
I suspect the issue is they have to be smaller than the males and I have an idea:
We have a relation who is ten and probably five and a half feet tall. She’s still growing. Her pediatrician said her parents are going to have to be her champions because, while she looks like a fifteen-year-old knucklehead, she’s actually behaving as a ten year old. Happy to say she’s doing better than that.
So reverse it. My folks had a neighbor whose kid was small for his age. He seemed like a child prodigy at seven or eight, acting like a ten year old with the appropriate speech patterns and conversational skills and education . So, much was made of him by adults. I understand he’s become an engineer.
Is it possible that short guys go into show biz to get permanent adulation as they did growing up? That would require shorter women.
Is it possible that short guys go into show biz to get permanent adulation as they did growing up? That would require shorter women.
If you consider classical ballet “show biz,” Neo has noted (e.g., Mikhail Baryshnikov) that many male dancers are on the short side of average; Erik Bruhn was 5’7″, Vaslav Nijinsky 5’4″. So of course it helps to have short women as partners.
I read somewhere a while back that in WWI the average enlisted man was a head shorter than the average officer. Don’t know whether it’s true or not, but if true rather chilling for what it says about, dare I say it, systemic injustice. (The fact that the left abuses the concept doesn’t mean it’s not a real thing.)
I pick up indications here and there randomly on the web that a lot of young women are absolutely ruthless about their requirements for height in a male. As with huxley’s list of sixes above, I get the feeling that there are some really cold-eyed young women out there. Maybe always have been, I don’t know. “Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.” But I have lived long enough to see that an economic disparity–wife earns significantly more than husband–is a more-than-random aspect of divorces. I know a young couple for whom I’m seriously worried on that account. It’s maybe overlookable when you’re young, but in middle age gets more important.
So many women, although they would deny it, seem to feel in their guts that they should have the option of not holding a job, and staying at home with the children, at least for a few years.
No word yet from huxley?— aka, our man in Albuquerque — regarding the Talking Point USA event at the University of New Mexico which presented Tommi Lahren, who was mobbed and run off campus — while officials did next to nothing to secure non-Leftist freedom of speech….
Mac
In “This Kind of War” by Fehrenbach–terrific history of the Korean War with background and lengthy discussion of the military in a liberal society and so forth, there are various pictures. One is of the Gloucestershire Regiment marching to their Port of Embarkation.Four files back into the haze. To their left, every so often, is an officer. All are a head taller.
Took until the Fifties for lower-class Europeans to reach height parity with the better off.
Helping my wife with a dozen and a half white bread, corn fed midwestern high school students in Spain in 73. The Spanish guys hanging around were….wow. Short. Their shirts had what I think is called a “gore” sewn into the back, using up massive amounts of fabric so the shirt woud gape open across their skinny, hairless chests. Our guys–and we didn’t recruit linebackers–were looking on incredulously; “These guys think they’re God’s gift to women?”
Things were a little better on our 97 and 99 trips, but still noticeable.
My sister studied in Brittany in 72 and thought the French guys small. If they were, say, twenty-two, they’d have been born in 1950 when the shortages of WW II were past.
D.C. McCallester, writing about being an exchange student in Germany in the EIghties,said she thought the German guys were kind of “frail” and it sort of unnerved her. She relaxed when the American contingent gathered at the end of the year to return and she was among the burlier American guys.
But. Many of the European armies have or had “Guards” regiments, which required the enlisted men to be at least six feet tall. And they were frequently used as shock troops. So the Yurps have been mowing down their tall guys for centuries.
One entry into the inter-war Lords and Detectives genre was “Bulldog Drummond” whose author goes on at length about the guy’s enormous size and strength. At the end of the last book–or at least in the order in which I read them, we find Drummond is….SIX FEET TALL. Now, consider. The author has to impress his audience, so this has to be pretty impressive in the world of the twenties and thirties.
Many of the European armies have or had “Guards” regiments, which required the enlisted men to be at least six feet tall.
Yep– see the Potsdamer Riesengarde (Prussian infantry regiment no. 6), which was founded in 1675, became famous under King Frederick Wilhelm I of Prussia (reigned 1713–1740), and was disbanded in 1806, when Napoleon defeated Prussia at the Battle of Jena. The soldiers were known as the Potsdam Giants or (by the local peasants) as the lange Kerls or tall guys. At its height, the regiment numbered about 3,200 soldiers. The king recruited men from all over Europe for their height– minimum required height, 6’2″. There were two Irishmen in the regiment in the 1730s who were 7’1″ tall. Ironically, Frederick Wilhelm himself was only 5’3″. The king’s son, Frederick the Great, thought the lange Kerls an unnecessary expense and downsized the regiment to a battalion.
The Riesengarde was revived as a reenactment group in 1990, and continues to perform the original 1726 drill at various events in the Potsdam area. Website (in English) here: https://www.lange-kerls.de/Home/_13
As it happens, I watched “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes” a few weekends ago. It was fun to see Howard Hawks, the director, playing with Technicolor film stock. Man, the dresses on Jane Russell and Marilyn Monroe just popped!
The film, especially the song “Diamonds Are a Girl’s Best Friend,” made Marilyn out to be a real gold-digger. (Jane Russell made it clear she was out for love, for richer or poorer.)
But ***Spoiler Alert*** by the end you learn that diamonds — on a wedding ring — are really a girl’s best friend.
It’s a crazier film than I remembered. Recommended.
No word yet from huxley?— aka, our man in Albuquerque — regarding the Talking Point USA event at the University of New Mexico which presented Tommi Lahren, who was mobbed and run off campus — while officials did next to nothing to secure non-Leftist freedom of speech….
TJ:
Couldn’t say. I live my life, at home and cafe, a few blocks from UNM, but I missed this. I’ll check into it.
UNM is pretty woke these days, even the Engineering Dept. Lately I keep getting invitations, sweetened with Free Pizza!, to hear the latest Dean candidate and the candidates are mostly female. Like, you know, most engineers and programmers.
So far, the candidates are not advertising their pronouns in their CV or Bio.
My return to academia is not exactly what I hoped.
}}} They’ve never forgiven us for such inheritance 🙂
Meh. Did they get good teeth? Good bones? Good health?
Point out that there are some things that are much more important to inheritance than height. Esp. for women. Men (as I noted earlier above) less so.
I love tall women, but I would not reject a woman who was short for being short.
}}} the 5’7 son of a dad who was 5’10 and a mom who was 5’0. I’m one of those rarities (at least on this blog) who is shorter than his father.
In your case, presumably, the height genes from your mother overrode the nutritional effects of better diet… 😀
Think of it this way, you were probably meant to be even shorter, but you got well fed. 😀
}}} I pick up indications here and there randomly on the web that a lot of young women are absolutely ruthless about their requirements for height in a male. As with huxley’s list of sixes above, I get the feeling that there are some really cold-eyed young women out there.
As I noted earlier, height, while rarely commented on by women, is a major factor in their triage process. As I understand it, if you’re a 5’6 established surgeon making 300k a year, you better work hard on your social skills because you’re going to really need them to attract women.
}}} Maybe always have been, I don’t know. “Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.” But I have lived long enough to see that an economic disparity–wife earns significantly more than husband–is a more-than-random aspect of divorces.
Yes, my own suspicion on this is that women as a group (i.e., this does not necessarily apply to any woman reading this) cannot really wrap their heads around the notion of true equality. It’s a pecking order, and you are either above them or below them. And most of them cannot respect a man who is below them. So “equal pay” is never a deal for men, because it means they can never have a woman who matches his financial status, in can only go downward, never upward.
}}} So many women, although they would deny it, seem to feel in their guts that they should have the option of not holding a job, and staying at home with the children, at least for a few years.
Yeah, then they want exactly the same pay as a man who did not take the time off from work to have kids. :-/
Back in New Orleans I got to know a young woman photographer who was short. Granted, she was attractive, but she really got around.
Later she made her way to Cray Inc. in Boulder, Colorado and got involved with a top computer scientist.
I wondered if being a short attractive female wasn’t a great card to play.
OBH: Yeah, then they want exactly the same pay as a man who did not take the time off from work to have kids. :-/
And yet, something can be said for the abilities and talents required to maintain a home, rear very young children, and then get them through a few years of schooling until they are basically ready to (mostly) take care of themselves (with modest supervision). Some recognition of that type of experience and how it can or could be applied to the world of paid work certainly seems justified by any competent and forward thinking male (or female) executive. This can’t apply for all jobs/ tasks women might have had prior to taking time off to raise children, but many jobs can be structured to:
1) be part time
2) use much of the “work from home” tech tools now available
3) explore or involve slower, longer term development of ideas, programs, plans, etc. Perhaps research for proposals, new marketing approaches, analysis of data, editing others reports, critical reviews of other’s work, etc. I.e., those important but not urgent things executives know they should address but never find the time.
4) build upon the skills and experience the woman has already displayed during her earlier years of employment with a given firm, intended to both “keep her hand” in technically or procedurally with company methodologies and other advances to minimize loss of skills; and to provide opportunities for continued career growth during this period or upon returning to work full time.
5) I suspect many here could add a dozen more items to this listing.
Re: UNM and Tomi Lahren brouhaha
TJ:
I heard no buzz today at the cafe. Checking the web, I can’t entirely figure out what went on. Some say that BIPOC people with tickets were denied entrance to the event. But it also sounds like the wokesters were gunning to run Lahren out regardless.
The mean adult height of people has increased over time, partly due to better childhood nutrition and partly due to just a general preference for taller mates. Apparently from 1896 to 1996 the mean height of adult US females increased from around 158.5cm (5’2) to 163.5cm (5’3).
Bookworm makes a point that sometimes gets lost. Democrats and Republicans used to share the same civic value system. That is no longer true.
“Democrats and Republicans used to have fairly similar concerns — good wages, secure borders, national security, safe neighborhoods, racial harmony, strong families — but they differed about how to achieve those goals. Now, though, the two parts of America have completely different goals. Republicans still want the same things. Democrats want a socialized economy, open borders, one world government, overbuilt urban neighborhoods with free street housing for homeless drug addicts, racial division, and a sexual smorgasbord totally at odds with strong families. These visions cannot be reconciled.”
https://www.bookwormroom.com/2022/09/07/the-two-americas/
This has some relationship to the very different moral value system of the two groups (per Haidt). But not entirely. Democrats used to love America. Not anymore. It’s instructive to contemplate how that changed.
“…to contemplate how that changed…”
Oh, that’s an easy one:
If you love America, you’re a mega-dangerous, deplorable, extremist, white-supremacist, radical, insurrectionist, enemy-of-the-people, enemy-of-the-state, wild-eyed, racist, double-semi-fascist, MEGA-MAGA, uber-hating Trumpist.
(Whereas if you want to destroy the country…you’re the complete opposite of the above. It all makes sense…in a kinda way: the important thing is to keep repeating the mantra 24/7 and ratchet up your virtuous hate “to the sticking point”…without actually bothering to think about what you’re really doing. That’s why it’s so important to be virtuous—i.e., hate all the right people (i.e., “vermin”)—24/7.)
From the “Shed-A-Tear” File:
“Manchin Says He May Need 20 GOP Votes for Energy-Permitting Plan.—”
https://instapundit.com/542912/
Doesn’t say how tall she is, but…wow, Bridget Fonda.
Nonapod’s point about increasing size is good. I remember being shocked at how short beds were when visiting historical homes when I was a kid.
John Wayne was 6-4. Went to USC in the twenties on a football ride. He was really skinny in high school, but I’d have to guess he was 200 lbs in college. This at a time when consensus all-American linemen weren’t that tall and weighed less than 200. He was a big guy by modern standards. Huge by the standards of his day.
People of the lie.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2022/09/15/fbi-agents-accuse-biden-of-pressuring-fbi-to-fabricate-extremist-and-white-supremacist-cases-n1629886
“high-ranking FBI officials were pressuring field agents to fabricate domestic terrorism cases and label people as white supremacists in order to “meet internal metrics.”
“We have more people assigned to investigate white supremacists than we can actually find.”
Dishonest, incompetent and corrupt is no way to go through life. The FBI — now the love children of the Keystone Kops and the Weather Underground.
Indeed, as suggested, heights have increased, both male and female, especially due to massive improvements in childhood nutrition — this affects both the adults and their progeny — overall nutrition improvements have increased heights by as much as five inches in different countries.
“Our World Data further reports that, like in the U.S., women’s heights have increased worldwide over the past 100 years. Some countries show gains in women’s heights of more than 12 cm during this time, which is roughly 4.7 inches.”
Note how the shortest females in those shown are often those born around the turn of the century… those born even 20-30y later average higher.
And consider, also, those females who were 5’5 to 5’7 were, in their time, as though a woman who is 5’9″ or 5’10” today, which is common for many “supermodels”, such as Claudia Schiffer or Elle Macpherson, who are, IIRC, 5’10” and 6′, respectively (and yes, while they are older supermodels, they led the way for the more modern crew, who are similarly often 5’9 or better).
A casual consideration of those shown seemed to suggest that the height of women popular into the 50s and beyond ran more towards 5’5 and 5’6, compared to those in the 30s and 40s, which was somewhat more variable, but ran lower overall.
Not unsurprisingly, there is one for men, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LthRxGt8xV8
Ive been looking up heights of rock “stars” last few months.
Stevie Ray Vaughn was 5’4″……who knew? Roger Daltrey 5′ 6″
Most are 5’8″ to 5′ 10″
Robert Plant at 6’0″
Neil Peart, the drummer of Rush 6′ 4″
and the man in the middle Mick Fleetwood is 6′ 5″
Then I think of a new one…..it passes the time
I find nothing about his party. Which to me is a giant flare as to which one it is.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11218125/Ex-Nevada-deputy-AG-arrested-1972-Hawaii-homicide.html
}}} Doesn’t say how tall she is, but…wow, Bridget Fonda.
According to internet sources she’s 5’6″.
And yes, she has not aged all that well, but many “normal people” do not. She dropped out of the Hollywood life and so does not feel the need to maintain “the look” of fitness so common in Hollywood, having become at least somewhat one of the “normal people” (albeit pretty decently wealthy @ family wealth of 50m).
But yeah, she is posdef not even vaguely recognizable. With many aging actresses, you can at least see the “old them” in the face. If I bumped into her on the street I’d have no idea. At least she hasn’t botoxed herself to death.
P.S., it notes she’s married to Oingo Boingo frontman and regular “score provider” Danny Elfman, whose “niece-in-law”, Jenna Elfman has had a film/TV career, probably the most notably as the titular “Dharma” in “Dharma & Greg”. She is 5’10.
P.S., I also recall reading something like 20y ago that Japanese children were running as much as 3″ taller than their parents, mainly due to much better childhood nutrition.
Most recently fear the walking dead
I’m not surprised how tiny some of these actresses are/were. Gene London (who Philadelphians of my age will remember from Cartoon corners General Store, may he RIP), collected clothing worn by actors/actresses and toured with parts of the collection. I was able to see one of these collections and was amazed at how tiny the waists of many of these actresses were (someone had a waist of 19” – might have been Hepburn). https://www.facebook.com/genelondoncollection/
I am surprised at the height for Mae West. 5’0 is short for a man.
I was surprised at how short so many of the actresses, and actors were. Surprisingly, more the actresses. Maybe half. Or more seemed to be 5’2” or shorter. That was my mother’s height at her tallest (I think she broke 5’ on the way back down). Have had one GF in over a half century anywhere that short. Normal for me was 5’7”-5’8’. 1st wife 5’9’, 2nd one 5’7”, and our daughters are 5’8”. That’s normal for me. Thinking back to that 5’1” girlfriend, I wonder now what I did with her, that short.
As to the actors, I was first surprised that Paul Neumann was taller than Robert Redford. From them playing together, I expected Redford to have been a couple inches the taller. In real life, height in men tends to correlate with dominance. It’s hard to believe that so many of the dominant men back in the Golden Era were such midgets. Today, you wouldn’t notice them in a crowd, they were so short(and thus non dominant).
Apropos of changes in adult (male) height, I remember reading some years back that Hollywood films set in ancient Rome (Ben-Hur, Spartacus, Cleopatra, etc.) gave moviegoers the impression that Roman soldiers were much taller than they actually were– the directors of these ’50s- and ’60s-era films would go to every university in southern California and recruit football players and other athletes (the more deeply tanned the better) to work as extras in scenes requiring one or more Roman legions. In actual fact, most Roman soldiers stood about 5’5″, the minimum height set by the army during the Empire. Julius Caesar, who stood about 5’9″, was considered a tall man in his time.
At the other end, our shortest president, James Madison, was only 5’4″, and Maximilien Robespierre was only 5’3″.
Barry Meislin – I really hope the GOP senators decline to bail out Manchin. His permitting reform is probably marginally better than nothing. If the D team wants to end the career the only Democrat who could conceivably win a Senate seat in WV, the GOP should let them.
It’s funny, I’m 6’½”, and, being in a college town for the last 40y, I don’t think of myself as all that tall (college students run taller than the average person).
Then I go other places, and/or see things like this, and it makes me remember that I am actually fairly tall.
}}} things like this
I meant the male version of this… surprising how many midgets there are in Hollywood. I know Stalone and Tom Cruise are both pretty short, too, as is Robert Downey Jr.
A year ago I might have said that I’m too broad minded to be influenced by the height of a woman. Recently, I’ve been taking stock of my life and was curious about the attraction thing. A person knows their own mind, correct? Not necessarily.
I cataloged the modest number of ladies I had ever dated, weighted by a rough attraction factor. I definitely have a thing for taller and physically more substantial women.
I suspect that early influences from one’s youth have lasting impact. As a pre-teen I was fascinated by Diana Rigg who is near the end of Neo’s video. In high school I dated a girl who was 5′ 11,” about 1/2″ taller than myself. And I had little crush on an older girl (something of a goddess) in high school who was 6′ 1.”
I was always puzzled by the notion that men don’t want to date women who are taller than themselves. That tall women don’t want shorter men, makes more sense to me.
I’m 6′ 1″ and my wife is 4′ 11″. She married me for my height, not my looks, brains or personality.
Well, I’ve always been attracted to taller women (long legs!! ooh la la!) 😀 … my HS sweetheart was 5’11. I was pushing towards 6′ at the time. It also helped that “fashion boots” were popular for men at the time, which meant she could wear heels and not be taller than me.
As I understand it, the height thing is really very significant. From what I’ve read, a physician earning 200k or more a year who is 5’6 is still going to find himself not interesting to a lot of females. So height can even trump income and power to a certain level with female base impulses (ladies: YMMV, this is a generic stat I’ve encountered)
}}} I was always puzzled by the notion that men don’t want to date women who are taller than themselves.
I’ve never had an issue with it, either, but I suspect it ties to the fact that some men have much more fragile egos and far less self-confidence than I do.
}}} Most recently fear the walking dead
Yeah, I noted that when reading about her. But, while a very popular show, she’s not the centerpiece of it, and the various celebrity stuff has not paid her anywhere near as much attention as it did when she was young and very cute (“quelle suprise?” 😀 ), so she’s not as notable as she once was. She still looks pretty good for someone @ 50. Haven’t seen her “in motion” so no idea if she’s @$%#$%#% botoxed herself like an idiot. She seemed unlikely back then but no clue if she shifted.
When Lynda Carter appeared on Supergirl and later in the last scene of WW1984, it was sad how immobile her face was, she’d botoxed so damned much. I’m put in mind of the Katherine Helmond scene in Terry Gilliams’ “Brazil”.
One of my favorite quotes from Dame Judi Dench (I can’t find the exact quote) was something about how she had guaranteed herself all the roles she wanted because she was the only woman over 50 in Hollywood who actually looked her age. 😀 She refuses to use Botox.
Greg Hlatky,
Very funny. And not entirely true, I’m sure.
In college, once I got past freshman year, the class size of most of my classes shrunk way down and there was this married couple in many of them. He was about 6′ 4″ and she was about 4′ 9.”
A dating rule of thumb I’ve heard is that women are looking for the Three Sixes:
* Six feet (height)
* Six figures (salary)
* Six pack (abs)
There are variations.
Took until the very end of the video to reach my height range. It may be that actresses tend to be short so they don’t tower over short actors. Besides liking Tom Selleck as an actor, I liked knowing that if I met him in person he would be taller than I am.
So height can even trump income and power to a certain level with female base impulses
You must be thinking of Mary Queen of Scots and her impulsive second marriage– to Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley, in 1565. Mary was 22, stood 5’10” (freakishly tall for a sixteenth-century woman), and had been widowed for 4 years. Darnley was 19 and over 6 feet tall. The queen described him as “the properest and best proportioned long man that [she] had seen.” According to Antonia Fraser, Mary was delighted to be able to dance with a man who was taller than she was and good-looking to boot. They were married after a courtship of only five months, but the marriage quickly went sour. Darnley was promiscuous, was diagnosed with syphilis, and arranged for the murder of Mary’s private secretary, David Rizzio. The outcome was Darnley’s murder in early 1567, Mary’s role in the plot still an open question.
Side note about David Rizzio: he was a gifted musician as well as a diplomat, and was rumored to be the biological father of Mary’s son, the future James I of England. Mary was six months pregnant when Rizzio was murdered in March 1566. Years later, when James had become King of England and was hailed as “the British Solomon” for his learning, King Henri IV of France quipped, “Of course [James] is like Solomon; his father was the harpist David.”
Ooh, Stuart gossip! 🙂 I had no idea Mary Queen of Scots was so tall.
}}} Ooh, Stuart gossip! ? I had no idea Mary Queen of Scots was so tall.
Neither did I, and yes, at that time, it was certainly an outlier in a big (ar ar) way.
As I recall, from most suits of armor, the typical male knight — who often was amongst the privileged, and thus, better fed class as a child — was about 5’4″. The average American Male could not actually wear most classical suits of armor.
I’d also note that, while I could wear my father’s shirts ( a large) when I was 18, by the time I was 21 I had moved to an XL and could really no longer wear any of them…
P.S., also thankfully, i’ve had fluoridated water all my life, so I have far far better teeth than either of my parents. I had 10 cavities when I was 18 (did not brush my teeth a lot when young). Haven’t had another for 45 years (have brushed my teeth ever since, mind you).
That is another major change in the last 100 years… much better dentistry and access to general dental care. I’ve heard that Clark Gable had dentures, and did not clean them well, so he had truly atrocious breath.
I’m 5’10, my wife is 5’3. My brother, father, and paternal grandfather all 6’0. My mother was 5’9, her parents all above 5’7. However, my paternal grandmother was 4’11. My wife’s mother was barely 5’0, and her father 5’5. My poor daughters…the gene pool somehow conspired to pass along my grandmother’s, and my wife’s parents heights to them. Oldest is 5’2, and youngest 5’0. They’ve never forgiven us for such inheritance :).
physicsguy, like your family, we’ve got a wide variety of ancestral traits and we can explain anything. You never can tell; you may someday have very tall grandchildren.
PA Cat:
Henry VIII was somewhere between 6’2″ and 6’4″, a real giant of a man. Jefferson and Washington were likewise tall, both around 6’2″. We already know about Lincoln. But did you know that Peter the Great was 6’8″.
PA Cat:
Henry VIII was somewhere between 6’2″ and 6’4″, a real giant of a man. Jefferson and Washington were likewise tall, both around 6’2″. We already know about Lincoln. But did you know that Peter the Great was 6’8″?
Steph at 12:20. Thanks for the Gene London mention. I was actually on that show when I was about 9. I sang the Doe A Deer song about the music scale.
No doubt you remember my performance. I was riveting.
In crime fighting these days, they not only have DNA matches, but ancestral DNA databases to look at as well as the ability to estimate some amount of the perp’s appearance from the DNA. For example, eye color can be determined. They claim that they can’t estimate height very well at all.
Jefferson’s Revenge @ 3:58:
I met Gene a few years before he passed, He was a kind and gentle soul, still with a twinkle in his eye in his late 80’s. I still remember the words to “Let’s pretend that its story time…”, as well as to the theme song. And I’ve been known to say “catch this box if you can”, too often to people who haven’t a clue what I am doddering on about.
My first wife was 6-2 (same as me). My second is the runt of her family at 5-7 when everyone else including her mother was 6-0 or taller. First words about my son by the doc doing the C-section was “oh, a linebacker”. On the other hand, my sister and her daughters are all only 5-3.
I think Neo posted a web site where you could plug in parent’s heights and get a fairly accurate approximation of the grown height of the children – this was several years ago. I know it was accurate for me, the 5’7 son of a dad who was 5’10 and a mom who was 5’0. I’m one of those rarities (at least on this blog) who is shorter than his father.
Steph:
I am precisely my mother’s height: 5’4″.
My wife and a friend–I was busy–went to see a touring exhibition of Downton Abbey costumes. She was surprised at how small the wearers had to have been, especially the women. This is early twenty-first century people.
I suspect the issue is they have to be smaller than the males and I have an idea:
We have a relation who is ten and probably five and a half feet tall. She’s still growing. Her pediatrician said her parents are going to have to be her champions because, while she looks like a fifteen-year-old knucklehead, she’s actually behaving as a ten year old. Happy to say she’s doing better than that.
So reverse it. My folks had a neighbor whose kid was small for his age. He seemed like a child prodigy at seven or eight, acting like a ten year old with the appropriate speech patterns and conversational skills and education . So, much was made of him by adults. I understand he’s become an engineer.
Is it possible that short guys go into show biz to get permanent adulation as they did growing up? That would require shorter women.
Is it possible that short guys go into show biz to get permanent adulation as they did growing up? That would require shorter women.
If you consider classical ballet “show biz,” Neo has noted (e.g., Mikhail Baryshnikov) that many male dancers are on the short side of average; Erik Bruhn was 5’7″, Vaslav Nijinsky 5’4″. So of course it helps to have short women as partners.
I read somewhere a while back that in WWI the average enlisted man was a head shorter than the average officer. Don’t know whether it’s true or not, but if true rather chilling for what it says about, dare I say it, systemic injustice. (The fact that the left abuses the concept doesn’t mean it’s not a real thing.)
I pick up indications here and there randomly on the web that a lot of young women are absolutely ruthless about their requirements for height in a male. As with huxley’s list of sixes above, I get the feeling that there are some really cold-eyed young women out there. Maybe always have been, I don’t know. “Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.” But I have lived long enough to see that an economic disparity–wife earns significantly more than husband–is a more-than-random aspect of divorces. I know a young couple for whom I’m seriously worried on that account. It’s maybe overlookable when you’re young, but in middle age gets more important.
So many women, although they would deny it, seem to feel in their guts that they should have the option of not holding a job, and staying at home with the children, at least for a few years.
No word yet from huxley?— aka, our man in Albuquerque — regarding the Talking Point USA event at the University of New Mexico which presented Tommi Lahren, who was mobbed and run off campus — while officials did next to nothing to secure non-Leftist freedom of speech….
MORE
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4093953/posts
Mac
In “This Kind of War” by Fehrenbach–terrific history of the Korean War with background and lengthy discussion of the military in a liberal society and so forth, there are various pictures. One is of the Gloucestershire Regiment marching to their Port of Embarkation.Four files back into the haze. To their left, every so often, is an officer. All are a head taller.
Took until the Fifties for lower-class Europeans to reach height parity with the better off.
Helping my wife with a dozen and a half white bread, corn fed midwestern high school students in Spain in 73. The Spanish guys hanging around were….wow. Short. Their shirts had what I think is called a “gore” sewn into the back, using up massive amounts of fabric so the shirt woud gape open across their skinny, hairless chests. Our guys–and we didn’t recruit linebackers–were looking on incredulously; “These guys think they’re God’s gift to women?”
Things were a little better on our 97 and 99 trips, but still noticeable.
My sister studied in Brittany in 72 and thought the French guys small. If they were, say, twenty-two, they’d have been born in 1950 when the shortages of WW II were past.
D.C. McCallester, writing about being an exchange student in Germany in the EIghties,said she thought the German guys were kind of “frail” and it sort of unnerved her. She relaxed when the American contingent gathered at the end of the year to return and she was among the burlier American guys.
But. Many of the European armies have or had “Guards” regiments, which required the enlisted men to be at least six feet tall. And they were frequently used as shock troops. So the Yurps have been mowing down their tall guys for centuries.
One entry into the inter-war Lords and Detectives genre was “Bulldog Drummond” whose author goes on at length about the guy’s enormous size and strength. At the end of the last book–or at least in the order in which I read them, we find Drummond is….SIX FEET TALL. Now, consider. The author has to impress his audience, so this has to be pretty impressive in the world of the twenties and thirties.
Many of the European armies have or had “Guards” regiments, which required the enlisted men to be at least six feet tall.
Yep– see the Potsdamer Riesengarde (Prussian infantry regiment no. 6), which was founded in 1675, became famous under King Frederick Wilhelm I of Prussia (reigned 1713–1740), and was disbanded in 1806, when Napoleon defeated Prussia at the Battle of Jena. The soldiers were known as the Potsdam Giants or (by the local peasants) as the lange Kerls or tall guys. At its height, the regiment numbered about 3,200 soldiers. The king recruited men from all over Europe for their height– minimum required height, 6’2″. There were two Irishmen in the regiment in the 1730s who were 7’1″ tall. Ironically, Frederick Wilhelm himself was only 5’3″. The king’s son, Frederick the Great, thought the lange Kerls an unnecessary expense and downsized the regiment to a battalion.
The Riesengarde was revived as a reenactment group in 1990, and continues to perform the original 1726 drill at various events in the Potsdam area. Website (in English) here: https://www.lange-kerls.de/Home/_13
Video of the lange Kerls in their traditional uniforms here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWBLlgv_SMc&ab_channel=fritz51230
“Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.”
Mac:
As it happens, I watched “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes” a few weekends ago. It was fun to see Howard Hawks, the director, playing with Technicolor film stock. Man, the dresses on Jane Russell and Marilyn Monroe just popped!
The film, especially the song “Diamonds Are a Girl’s Best Friend,” made Marilyn out to be a real gold-digger. (Jane Russell made it clear she was out for love, for richer or poorer.)
–Marilyn Monroe, “Diamonds Are a Girl’s Best Friend” (1953)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEyWqVfY4vo
But ***Spoiler Alert*** by the end you learn that diamonds — on a wedding ring — are really a girl’s best friend.
It’s a crazier film than I remembered. Recommended.
No word yet from huxley?— aka, our man in Albuquerque — regarding the Talking Point USA event at the University of New Mexico which presented Tommi Lahren, who was mobbed and run off campus — while officials did next to nothing to secure non-Leftist freedom of speech….
TJ:
Couldn’t say. I live my life, at home and cafe, a few blocks from UNM, but I missed this. I’ll check into it.
UNM is pretty woke these days, even the Engineering Dept. Lately I keep getting invitations, sweetened with Free Pizza!, to hear the latest Dean candidate and the candidates are mostly female. Like, you know, most engineers and programmers.
So far, the candidates are not advertising their pronouns in their CV or Bio.
My return to academia is not exactly what I hoped.
}}} They’ve never forgiven us for such inheritance 🙂
Meh. Did they get good teeth? Good bones? Good health?
Point out that there are some things that are much more important to inheritance than height. Esp. for women. Men (as I noted earlier above) less so.
I love tall women, but I would not reject a woman who was short for being short.
}}} the 5’7 son of a dad who was 5’10 and a mom who was 5’0. I’m one of those rarities (at least on this blog) who is shorter than his father.
In your case, presumably, the height genes from your mother overrode the nutritional effects of better diet… 😀
Think of it this way, you were probably meant to be even shorter, but you got well fed. 😀
}}} I pick up indications here and there randomly on the web that a lot of young women are absolutely ruthless about their requirements for height in a male. As with huxley’s list of sixes above, I get the feeling that there are some really cold-eyed young women out there.
As I noted earlier, height, while rarely commented on by women, is a major factor in their triage process. As I understand it, if you’re a 5’6 established surgeon making 300k a year, you better work hard on your social skills because you’re going to really need them to attract women.
}}} Maybe always have been, I don’t know. “Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.” But I have lived long enough to see that an economic disparity–wife earns significantly more than husband–is a more-than-random aspect of divorces.
Yes, my own suspicion on this is that women as a group (i.e., this does not necessarily apply to any woman reading this) cannot really wrap their heads around the notion of true equality. It’s a pecking order, and you are either above them or below them. And most of them cannot respect a man who is below them. So “equal pay” is never a deal for men, because it means they can never have a woman who matches his financial status, in can only go downward, never upward.
}}} So many women, although they would deny it, seem to feel in their guts that they should have the option of not holding a job, and staying at home with the children, at least for a few years.
Yeah, then they want exactly the same pay as a man who did not take the time off from work to have kids. :-/
Back in New Orleans I got to know a young woman photographer who was short. Granted, she was attractive, but she really got around.
Later she made her way to Cray Inc. in Boulder, Colorado and got involved with a top computer scientist.
I wondered if being a short attractive female wasn’t a great card to play.
OBH: Yeah, then they want exactly the same pay as a man who did not take the time off from work to have kids. :-/
And yet, something can be said for the abilities and talents required to maintain a home, rear very young children, and then get them through a few years of schooling until they are basically ready to (mostly) take care of themselves (with modest supervision). Some recognition of that type of experience and how it can or could be applied to the world of paid work certainly seems justified by any competent and forward thinking male (or female) executive. This can’t apply for all jobs/ tasks women might have had prior to taking time off to raise children, but many jobs can be structured to:
1) be part time
2) use much of the “work from home” tech tools now available
3) explore or involve slower, longer term development of ideas, programs, plans, etc. Perhaps research for proposals, new marketing approaches, analysis of data, editing others reports, critical reviews of other’s work, etc. I.e., those important but not urgent things executives know they should address but never find the time.
4) build upon the skills and experience the woman has already displayed during her earlier years of employment with a given firm, intended to both “keep her hand” in technically or procedurally with company methodologies and other advances to minimize loss of skills; and to provide opportunities for continued career growth during this period or upon returning to work full time.
5) I suspect many here could add a dozen more items to this listing.
Re: UNM and Tomi Lahren brouhaha
TJ:
I heard no buzz today at the cafe. Checking the web, I can’t entirely figure out what went on. Some say that BIPOC people with tickets were denied entrance to the event. But it also sounds like the wokesters were gunning to run Lahren out regardless.
https://www.dailylobo.com/article/2022/09/students-of-color-denied-entry-at-turning-point-event-at-unm
https://www.reddit.com/r/Albuquerque/comments/xfzvyp/proud_of_you_unm_hundreds_of_unm_student_rallied/
Saturday was Constitution Day. Will it be the last one in our now deeply divided and thoroughly broken nation?
This piece at American Thinker goes a long way to count the costs being suffered.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/09/constitution_day_liberty_once_lost_may_be_lost_forever.html
Many of the shortest actresses were child stars; at that point in their live, their short stature would be a plus.
Linda S. Good point. I’ve wondered how they get those little, say, four-year-olds to do what’s necessary to….act. So they’re six years old.