You want range? I’ll give you range– and autotune?
All parts are done by Foust:
However – I hear autotune. Do you? It doesn’t take away from Foust’s range if autotune is used – the range is real – but to me there’s something not right about the sound of his voice, something false, synthetic, and metallic. I listen to all videos with earphones now, so it increases the ability to hear details.
I’ve done a search about Foust and I see references to autotune for the group Home Free of which Foust is a member (for example here), but I’d like to know if they’re correct or just people guessing, as I am. Looking at him, I don’t see the emotion of the song, either. I see the focus on making beautiful sounds. I admire that bass of his, but I’m not moved by this in the least.
No autotune in this next video for that same first song. The Bee Gees never needed it or used it and this was recorded before it was invented anyway – shortly before, that is (1995). Autotune was first introduced the very next year, in 1996. The song was originally written in 1960 – I remember it well – by Carole King, and sung by The Shirelles. This later Bee Gees version from 1995 was part of a Carole King tribute and is one of the very few songs they ever sang that wasn’t written by the Bee Gees themselves:
Here’s the original from The Shirelles. A classic:
And here’s Carole King’s later live version in 1971, the same year her album “Tapestry” was released. It’s interesting to me that until then she had apparently been content to be a songwriter behind the scenes, and yet she has a wonderful voice with a unique quality that I find very appealing – that slight idiosyncratic “sob” in it. Needless to say, no autotune here:
In high school, I sang in JV choir as a baritone, in varsity choir as a first tenor, and in my church choir (same director in all 3, a nice man named Mr. Northrup) as an alto. The range is wide but not outlandishly so, but it sure sounds as if it’s autotuned- some of the timbre seems missing, especially in the falsetto range.
I LOVE Carole King. Always have. Check out her 2001 album.
2001 album is Love Makes the World. Every song is GREAT.
Love Makes the World” (Sam Hollander, Carole King, Dave Schommer) – 4:23
“You Can Do Anything” (Babyface, King, Carole Bayer Sager) – 3:58
“The Reason” (Back vocals by Celine Dion) (Mark Hudson, King, Greg Wells) – 4:39
“I Wasn’t Gonna Fall in Love” (King, Sager) – 4:04
“I Don’t Know” (Paul Brady, Gary Burr, Hudson, King) – 3:04
“Oh No, Not My Baby” (Gerry Goffin, King) – 3:28
“It Could Have Been Anyone” (David Foster, King, Sager) – 3:53
“Monday Without You” (Brady, Hudson, King) – 4:02
“An Uncommon Love” (Rob Hyman, King, Rich Wayland) – 3:34
“You Will Find Me There” (Joel Campbell, King) – 4:25
“Safe Again” (King) – 2:42
“This Time” (King) – 3:42
Total sexist here. There are songs that should be sung only by women, and I think this is one of them. I thought that the Shirelles were better thank here. For the guys, I put Foust above your sainted Bee Gees. If nothing else, the lyrics make more sense with female vocalists. On the male side, I put the Battle Hymn of the Republic. Women should be forbidden singing that. (In church, we would sing it a couple times a year, and the lead was invariably a high, loud, soprano – I cringed every time she opened up).
Autotone is in play here, but I think it’s mostly where wordless harmonies are scored. I think he’s really just a vocal technician, and his delivery is without any heartfelt ambitions. Too bad, but not everybody can communicate with the listener. I really hate Autotone. It’s a cheap trick and it makes the music metallic, flat. The soul of a song comes out with the interplay of vibratos, and you can really see this effect at its best with a really good barbershop quartet, with guys that have been together for years. It’s effect is much greater than the sum of the parts. But to this guy, they’re just parts.
Having heard Judy Durham’s recording yesterday, to use Autotune on such a voice is a sin against nature. You need the overtones that arise from differences in pitch and timbre to get that really full sound.
neo writes, “The song was originally written in 1960 – I remember it well – by Carole King, and sung by The Shirelles.”
I remember it well, as well, but as a King-Goffin composition.
“‘Will You Love Me Tomorrow’, sometimes known as ‘Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow’, is a song with words written by Gerry Goffin and music composed by Carole King.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_You_Love_Me_Tomorrow
One can see the artist and composer attributions on the original record label (here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z84YVaS8Njc
At first I listened to the Foust video and didn’t understand what you meant by hearing autotune. It sounded fine to me.
Then I watched/listened to the videos of Bee Gees, Shirelles and Carole King before listening again to Foust. It was true! Foust almost sounded like a computer voice by comparison.
In my circles, Tapestry had a huge influence on women.
I’ve heard that sometimes they need to autotune really low ranges to get them to record. might have been Tim or someone else doing something on TV, and while those listening live heard a massively low bass, the TV recording had it higher via autotune or it would not have been audible.
Another singer with great range is the Aussie, Mike Mills (Toehider, Ayreon, Star One)
https://youtu.be/9AAXtUdM7xE in this he is playing an A.I. (This live show probably has more talent at it than the last 6 years worth of the Top 40)
He also has done a cover of Kate Bush’s “Wuthering Heights” sung in her key.
Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons, sans autotune, did “Stay.”
Frankie Valli, sans autotune, did “Will You Love Me Tomorrow.”
The Shirelles version is the only one I like and will listen to, in part because it is the first that I heard. It is the best.
M J R:
You may have noticed that I already linked to that Wiki entry, on the words “The song was originally written,” for anyone who wanted more information.
neo (10:56 pm), got it. I had not clicked on the link.
@ steve > “The Shirelles version is the only one I like and will listen to, in part because it is the first that I heard. It is the best.”
That’s a very common reaction to music; sometimes to books vs the movie version (or vice versa!); and (as we see daily) to politics and ideology.
On the other hand, I was probably the only young person in the world who did NOT like the Beatles in the Sixties, although I did learn some of their songs and enjoyed singing them.
My preference for several of their compositions are the covers by the King’s Singers.
Blackbird
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrldxwxD1a8
There doesn’t seem to be a Youtube of the King’s Singers doing Norwegian Wood, but it is on their album The Beatles Connection, and I love their version.
However, I just discovered this version of Norwegian Wood by The New Swingle Singers. Not sure I like it, but it’s certainly interesting.
https://mozaart.com/en/t/norwegian-wood-the-swingle-singers
The type synth engine used in autotune (or a variant) is also used in all sorts of recording and amp techiques. Chorus effects, for one. I hear that in the harmony sections, where I think that the vocal is doubled with delay, and also tone shifted -which invariably mutes higher hamonics which would be present in a live voice. It’s a lot faster than actually recording the extra parts, and a lot more “accurate” in time, which reinforces the impression of artificiality.
JimNorCal: besides Tapestry, Carly Simon’s Hotcakes. Both were inevitably owned and usually one was displayed with the cover fronted in apartments of gals.
After many years, my two weeks in Corfu included a few Karaoke nights, which I fully enjoyed.
(Am Idol killed the karaoke star.)
So I looked up California Girls by the Beach Boys, but found …
Fil – analyzing Brian Wilson’s voice and discussing autotone (autotune?).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEac2AQEsC8
The techno geek in me knows that, in some years (or decades?), the autotuners will be able to get most of the timbre & overtones tuned with vibrato. But not yet – just as text-to-speech in real time doesn’t yet fully work. (20 yrs after 2001).
Foust’s bass voice is deep & rich — but without the soul of most deep voiced singers (like on Disturbed’s “Sound of Silence” cover.) Makes me think of Fellini’s Cassanova (Donald Sutherland!), and his pure “technique”. Foust’s version seems to mean, not a song for fun or expressing feelings, but to show off vocal virtuosity. Tho I know I’m also very envious of that same singing ability, and there were some moments where he was having fun.
Bee Gees, quite good, but not special for me.
Shirelles, yes.
Carole King, lots of emotion, it was real for her – but, no thanks. Not such a great voice for me – would be among the best karoake versions I’d have ever heard.
Did she really end the final verse with “love me?” or was the final tomorrow cut?
Technically speaking, headphones do not give you more clarity to hear the details and dynamics unless you’ve got a professionally designed, mainly flat response pair. Most headphones, like speakers, have some emphasis in various frequencies. This can “trick” your ears, so to speak. However, your entire post is fabulous besides this little detail. Carol King, for example, was a master at emphasizing her voice for this particular reason among others. Dynamics are why we often associate such great musicians like BB King, Clapton, Louis Armstrong, etc. with profound human emotions
I like the Shirelles original best. It has an authentic 60s sound and it sounds more like she means what she’s singing. The guys are too caught up in the artistry, not in the feeling. They are trying too hard to make something pretty or skillful. The emotion behind the words doesn’t hit you as hard. I liked Carole King’s piano playing, but the accompaniment makes it a very different song.
I don’t know much about music , though. I still associate autotune with the bizarre effects on that Cher record in the 90s. Whatever subtleties are involved with the technology are lost on me.
It’s a good thing the Byzantine chant world is impervious to autotune. Oh, I suppose someone could adapt the algorithm to accommodate microtonal systems, but that’d be so much work, I would think, and in the end there would be few users.
By the way, although I like everything the Bee Gees do, this is one of their lesser performances. It’s one of the only – maybe even the only – cover song they ever recorded (except when they were just fooling around), and as I said earlier it was on a tribute album to Carole King. It doesn’t quite suit them although they do a pretty good job. I very much prefer them doing the songs they wrote themselves – about 1000 of them.
I mostly listen to Tim Foust in Home Free vids or when he collaborates with Peter Hollens. i enjoy his voice quite a lot in those, but for some reason that I can’t explain, I’ve never felt like following his personal channel or listening to his solo work.
Geoff Castellucci (from the group Voiceplay) on the other hand…. I am subscribed to his channel as well as to the Voiceplay one.
“There are songs that should be sung only by women, and I think this is one of them.”
And yet the lyrics were written by a man, King’s then-husband Gerry Goffin. For all those wonderful Goffin-King songs Goffin wrote the lyrics and King wrote the music. Yes I have found that ironic for this song in particular.
You don’t need technology to ruin music. Rita Coolidge butchered two great songs – “Higher And Higher” and “The Way You Do The Things You Do” long before autotune was invented.
As great as the Bee Gees were, I think they should have stayed away from “Will You Love Me Tomorrow.” This is the first time I’ve heard their version. (Thank you, neo.) To me, they just sound whiny.
The Four Seasons’ version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp4-4YJUNfY) (thanks, Mike Smith) sounds OK, but is evidence that the song probably is one of those that, as Bruce Hayden noted, are better sung by women.
The Shirelles’ version is, of course, classic. When I first heard it as a pre-teen kid, it seemed to me as though a girl was warning a guy, in no uncertain terms, that he better be around for a long while.
Carol King’s Tapestry version, which I heard when the album was released, seemed like a different song. The singer (King, of course) seemed to be telling her “new” boyfriend that she already knew he’d be permanently gone before the morning.
I think both The Shirelles and Carol King versions are great.