Nice going, Putin old boy, say Finland and Sweden
Finland will apply for membership in the NATO military alliance, the country’s president, Sauli Niinisto, confirmed on Sunday, in a historic policy shift prompted by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Moscow, which shares a 1,300 km (800 mile) border with Finland, has said it would be a mistake for Helsinki to join the 30-strong transatlantic alliance and that it would harm bilateral ties.
Sweden is also expected to follow suit as public support for membership has grown amid security concerns.
Sunday’s announcement comes after Niinisto and Finland’s prime minister, Sanna Marin, said on Thursday they both favoured membership in NATO (the North Atlantic Treaty Organization), giving a green light for the country to apply.
Interestingly: “Putin said he thought the move would be a mistake, but did not repeat earlier threats that any such move would trigger countermeasures from Moscow, the Finnish leader said in an interview with CNN on Sunday.”
And then there’s Poland:
A Russian lawmaker has issued a fiery warning that Warsaw is next in line for “de-nazification” after Poland’s Prime Minister penned an op-ed calling Russia’s imperialist “Russkiy Mir” ideology a “cancer” consuming Russian society and a “deadly threat” to other countries.
Poland is a NATO member, so I don’t think Russia is contemplating much fake “de-nazification” there, despite “lawmakers” issuing “fiery warnings.”
By the way, this video has been posted many times at YouTube, and recent comments tend to follow the sarcastic “This aged well, didn’t it?” One person wrote, “Not so funny now is it Mr. President?”:
Pity Romney couldn’t gather to say the biggest geo-political threat to the US was Obama’s geo-political strategic thinking or what presumed to parade itself as “thinking”. But then hindsight is always 20/20, so, meh.
CFP link to terse comments by Turkey’s Erdogan: https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/erdogan-issues-warning-to-sweden/
Obama screwed the Turks too, and they’re not gonna forget.
I always felt that after the shellacking of Obama in the first debate that Romney toke his foot off his neck in the second for reasons unknown. It was almost like a little league slaughter rule was in place.
well turkey is the point of a triangle of old czarist foes, they have served as ukraines drone quartermaster, they have their own great imperial game in europe abetted by qatar, for the hearts and minds of not only turks but arabs in western europe
along with poland to the west and sweden northward, the famous polish author sienkewitz, (sic) whose masterpiece was the imperial roman epic quo vadis, wrote a whole trilogy about the Northern War, everything old is new again,
Nations have interests as do alliances, sometimes they correspond. It takes some willful blindness to assume that Turkey moves in lock step with progressive or leftist nations in Western Europe. And before the blind chime in about who sets NATO policy, who controls access to the Black Sea?
Captain Obvious signing out.
The prospect of Turks v, Russia is not absurd. There is a long border.
a small problem,
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/15/poll-young-swedish-men-are-demo-least-supportive-of-joining-nato/
I regard turkey as a greater long term threat then Russia, not only in Europe but even in North Africa, against the Syrian government, at loggerheads with the Sauds,
Ootenvault:
It was a combination of Romney’s personality plus his shock at Candy Crowley’s intervention. He didn’t know what hit him.
I wrote a lot about what Crowley did at the time. Here’s one, and here’s another, and there’s also this one which I wrote two years later.
Geez, Cicero, you write that like there was a bloody war fought along that border 165 years ago. On the plus side, we got modern nursing.
Well Vlad has been busy in Syria and helping Iran with it’s nuclear ambitions, so I’m not giving Vlad and the Mullahs any props. Not exactly the Welcome Wagon of civilization.
Well Vlad has been busy in Syria and helping Iran with it’s nuclear ambitions, so I’m not giving Vlad and the Mullahs any props. Not exactly the Welcome Wagon of civilization. Tough neighborhood.
The prospect of Turks fighting Russians is less than prospective if we merely include numerous clashes in the past three years. Turks blasted Russian forces in NW Syria, and underwrote much of Azerbijian’s pummeling of Russian allied Armenia in the Nagorno-Karabakh war a year ago. Russian military weaknesses were exposed then, so as those weaknesses reemerge here and there in Ukraine none should be too surprised.
Beginning to welcome old age. Coz sooner or later it’ll be:
Break out the SPF 50,000 boys, this’s gonna sting some…
Vlad longs for the good old days of Dr. Strangelove. Some long for the good old days of the Nuclear Freeze movement. Misspent callow youth.
“Finland will apply for membership in the NATO military alliance, the country’s president, Sauli Niinisto, confirmed on Sunday”
Fear leads to defensiveness. Russia will of course see this as Finland’s right and, we can be confident that Russia will not see this as an emerging national security threat on their border.
“Poland’s Prime Minister penned an op-ed calling Russia’s imperialist “Russkiy Mir” ideology a “cancer” consuming Russian society and a “deadly threat” to other countries.”
Since the US is directing the Western response to Russia’s invasion of the Ukraine, the Polish Prime Minister’s op-ed was almost certainly issued after consultation with the Biden administration.
Poland’s Prime Minister penning an op-ed that derisively labels Russia’s cultural nationalism to be “a cancer” cannot be intended to seek de-escalation. Thus it can only be intended to escalate tensions and animosity, probably in an attempt to discredit the nationalism that Putin embraces.
But it’s not just Putin and some of his supporters. This indicates another failure by the West to either understand an opponent or an arrogant dismissal of even the need to understand an opponent’s motivations. Russia is a highly nationalistic society, attacking the nationalism that the average Russian citizen embraces will result in an increase in Russian patriotism.
A foremost precondition in wars is a fundamental misunderstanding of the other side’s determination and capabilities. Napoleon, Hitler Tojo, Saddam and George Bush stand as evidence of where fundamental miscalculations can lead.
This comment from Neo’s 2014 post, by Daniel from Brookline:
I believe Tina Fey still brags about taking down Sarah Palin. The various news networks hide information that might be embarrassing to the President, while embarrassing Republicans at every opportunity… and they do it because they want to, not because they were told to!
For those with longer memories: WH Press Secretary Ron Nessen appeared on Saturday Night Live in 1976. He gamely participated in a skit featuring Chevy Chase as bumbling President Ford. Later, the cast of SNL bragged about how they hoped they played a role in his loss to Jimmy Carter.
Let’s count ourselves lucky that the Democrats were asleep at the switch in 2014. You can bet they won’t be in 2016. . . .
And let’s hope that, among the many legislative measures Republicans push over the next two years, that electoral transparency is among them. . . .
Here we are eight years later and Republican officials are resisting efforts to make elections more transparent. A few have woken up. Not nearly enough have, and in Maricopa County, AZ, one might wonder if the county commissioners were secretly taking payments from Dominion or the Democrats.
While the de-nazification is suspect, make no mistake, all the MSM were yapping about the neonazis in Ukraine not that long ago.
Obama refused to directly up the ante in this conflict with Ukraine and Russia. His admin though helped to make the stakes more dire with the support of the coup against a Russian favoring Ukraine government to a US favoring Ukraine. Trump did up the ante directory all the while trying to make Russia more of an arms length partner.
All this war fever against Russia was evident clearly in Congress under Obama of which this fever was controlled by a Republican Congress.
Yep, Trump helped Ukraine with military aid against Russia, but was tarred as being a Russian puppet.
Of course, neither political party would be willing to sacrifice another country or even their own citizens for raw political power that mainly benefits the party.
Nahhh, never would happen.
TexasDude:
There was no coup in 2014. It was a democratic and legal process in which people rose up against a corrupt leader who had betrayed them. He left the country rather than answer charges about his corruption. See this.
For decades it was the left that said every coup against a leftist was engineered by the US. Now it’s the right that seems to make the charge. Supporting an indigenous movement is not the same as engineering a coup.
And yes, there are some neo-Nazis in Ukraine, but they are not even remotely as numerous as Putin says, nor anywhere near as influential.
Neo: And yes, there are some neo-Nazis in Ukraine, but they are not even remotely as numerous as Putin says, nor anywhere near as influential.
And let us be honest. Russians have historically been very tolerant of Nazis, at least right up until the Nazis invade Russia. People forget how much the Soviets used the Non-aggression Pact to invade and control just as much as Hitler did.
According to an Israeli tv news report Russian forces have fired on Israeli AF planes carrying out a strike in Syria. The report says the planes were not hit, that the radar controls never had a lock on them, but surface to air missiles were launched (there seems to be some video footage of that). This is a first so far as I know. Until now Israel and Russia had a deconfliction agreement negotiated by Netanyahu and Putin which had held any direct conflict off.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1526264887260872704?cxt=HHwWgICw5YL1sK4qAAAA
Poland and hungary are dead center in the target of the metrosexual eu that wants to neuter itself even aftet accepting loads of ukrainian immigrants thisgang of pirates concurred until february take a look at malmo in sweden that has become a dumpsterfire on par with the worst west coast city name any of them.
Yes the most wretched person sits in the naval observatory like her patron some one who despises america despite the privileges she has been given yes her incompetence is manifest but she persists in wrecking this country in small ways as large.
Were suffering through our more than customary dose of idocaine (see princess bride the mosf recent cintributions was a totally psycho fed governor who is ignorant of science and economics another loon on the ftc we are still discharging soldiers sailors and airman even blocking some academy grads from commisioning
The swedish version of bond is commander hamilton by left wing muckraker jan guillou of course this naval officer was all friendly with the palestinians and the soviets i think only the americans they had any qualms about (theyve done a few films one with peter stormare was bloody awful) stieg larson who gave us hacker zalander didnt think sweden was far left enough.
They do have an alt right obsession like the most prog democrats their ’24 is a series translating to blue eyes take a gander who they think is the real threat occassional their fiction has a dose of reality take jen lapidus a mob lawyer turned hammett or ellroy under that thin scandinavian veneer the real dirty work is done by arabs serbs and russiansi
Geoffrey continues to carry Vlad’s water.
You forgot to include Vlad in the list of fundamentally incompetent calculators. If it takes more than murder he is out of his depth Geoffrey.
Useless.
Not just Finland and Sweden but Switzerland too. They’re not ready to join yet, but they are now talking about a “closer relationship with NATO” to include joint military exercises with NATO and backfilling munitions to countries that send theirs to Ukraine.
I’ll say one thing about ol’ Vlad. He’s united Europe to an extent not seen since the fall of the Roman empire.
Might one wonder if all those Ukraine refugees might just help “save Europe from itself”(TM)….?
(Problem is, though, that not enough are getting to Western Europe…. Pity….)
No matter how hard he tries Putin can’t seem to control ALL the information Russians are able to get.
“VPN use in Russia is surging as citizens try to bypass government’s tightening Internet control”—
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/11/vpn-use-in-russia-is-surging-as-government-tightens-internet-control.html
Must be tremendously frustrating.
Just another reason to feel a bit sorry for the poor fellow.
File under: To understand is to…lose all sense of proportion.
mkent:
But you see that is why Vlad must be supported in his crusade against the arch and ultimate evil of the WEF/Davos (sarc). Those deluded and cowardly Europeans, at best, don’t appreciate the selfless sacrifice Vlad and Roosia are making for humanity! (sarc x 11)
Seems to me we are long past due an assessment of the value and usefulness of NATO to America’s interests.
Don’t know how he managed it but this guy somehow got off the reservation.
(Or maybe NATO’s world-renowned “RAKFISK” dezinformatsiya unit somehow got to him….)
“…Retired colonel gives damning assessment of Russia’s war in Ukraine on state TV as he urges Putin to ‘get out of’ the conflict”—
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10823981/Ukraine-war-Retired-colonel-tells-Russian-state-media-world-against-us.html
A courageous man…. One fears for his future.
Lets see, after the fall of the USSR, we have a shooting war in Europe, nations are joining NATO, and its time to reassess. Maybe not in the way you assume?
“Neo: And yes, there are some neo-Nazis in Ukraine, but they are not even remotely as numerous as Putin says, nor anywhere near as influential.”
Keep in mind that to some extent, neo-Nazi translates to anti-Russian. One of the reasons that the Nazi party was established, and flourished, was that it was in opposition to the Communist party (along with their very own AntiFA shock troops) funded and supported by the USSR. National Socialism was sold to the German people as an alternative to Stalin’s universal socialism. They were mired in the Great Depression, and socialism was ascendant around the world at the time, as a response. The question was what type of socialism was best for a country, and the Germans picked a type that was based in Germany, over the one run out of Moscow. The Nazi Brown Shirts and (original) AntiFA took to the streets to fight this out, and national socialism won in Germany over international socialism run by the hated Russians.
Point here is that for 90 years now, there has been an association between Nazis and anti-Russian sentiment. We shouldn’t be surprised when it rears it’s ugly head, where anti-Russian sentimental is at its highest.
I don’t see Finland and Sweden being in that much danger if they join NATO. Ukraine is vulnerable because they had been a key part of the USSR, which spent much of its existence engaging in Russification of that country. The Soviets, out of Moscow, would routinely either kill or deport Ukrainians to Siberia, replacing them with ethnic Russians, while forcing everyone to use the Russian language. And it is purportedly to protect those Russians left behind in Ukraine that were the cause of Russia’s encroachment into the Crimea, and now Ukraine proper. None of this was the case for Finland and Sweden.
Barack Obama was always short sighted and small. He is also one of the most self focused people ever. He had two autobiography/memoirs before he ran for president. I know that was just so that someone could have a plausible way to give him a big stack of cash but still.
Bruce Hayden. Seems you’re looking for a valid or at least marketable reason Russia might attack some place, and not finding it in Finland or Sweden while finding it in the public face of Russia’s attack on Ukraine.
What if the motivation is something else which does not refer to protecting or at least advantaging ethnic Russians outside of Russia proper but, instead, invasion and conquest for some other reason? Vlad or his successors just feel like it would be sufficient, given their power structure. Although the fustercluck we see may induce some caution going forward.
But whatever the motivation, there will be attempts at making it look legit, and looking at other possibilities in light of the public relations efforts might not cover enough ground.
I think Finland and Sweden are both being stupid. I would say the likelihood of either of them being attacked is far smaller than as NATO members being automatically sucked into war. The apparent dismal performance of the Russian war machine will take at least a decade to recover from if ever. They can rattle their rusty saber all they want but I think the jig is up.
Putin on Swe and Fin: https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/watch-putins-response-to-sweden/
“. . . warned Moscow would react to the expansion of military infrastructure on their territories . . .”
So Putin concurs with Israel on Israel’s continuing campaigns against IRIran weapons insertions into Syria and Lebanon? Cool.
Finland and Sweden have hundreds of years of experience living next to Roosia, 70 years of experience living next to the Soviets, and 70 years of experience on the margins of NATO. I strongly doubt that stupidity has anything to do with their actions.
Looks like stupidity may be terminal in the Kremlin:
https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/05/17/vladimir-putin-decides-he-is-a-better-general-than-his-generals-and-takes-the-reins-in-ukraine-n565855
Time will tell.
“I strongly doubt that stupidity has anything to do with their actions.”
Well then, they must think Russia is going down and want to be in on the spoils.
Om. A big shot general has to ask questions. Like, Can you support a reinforced mech brigade in (name of attack area) according to expenditure rate from staff study SSS plus fifty percent?
If his logistics guys are wrong…he has a problem and he’s not in a position to know for sure himself unless he was last commanding logistics in that area.
The likelihood Putin’s going to get more accurate answers than earlier top commanders is probably not what you’d want to put the farm on.
Oh yesh Roosia is going to be looted by the ravenous West.
Probably steal their precious bodily fluids while they are at it. Or steal the vodka anyway. The infamous Finnish and Swedish mafia: Murderers of Malmo, Hellions of Helsinki. Be very afraid Vlad.
What the purveyors of the west as looters of Roosian wealth never explain or bother to acknowledge is how the ravenous west is going to steal anything from the criminal Russian oligarchs. Lawsuits, hostile takeovers?
Poland’s Prime Minister penning an op-ed that derisively labels Russia’s cultural nationalism to be “a cancer” cannot be intended to seek de-escalation.
You don’t have to hand around many Poles to discover that is a very mild response by Polish standards. If Russia was wiped out utterly forever, I doubt even one Pole would shed a tear.
Roosia’s animus towards Poland is a long long story.
But something in the news for Paulbots to think about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CmXz8Qd9yw
Its funny because thats the eus attitude against poland and hungary
The EU is not NATO, Brussels bureaucrats do not a battle win. Nor did the EU keep Britain from leaving.
But, but, but ….. LOL.
My Swedish sister-in-law is from Malmo.
Her husband (my brother) went to school in the USSR.
@TexasDude
Mostly because the MSM is used to shouting “Nazi” at anything to the right of Stalin, and expecting them to actually understand National Socialism or Fascism- let alone modern derivatives- is beyond them.
The truth is, most of what are called “Neo-Nazis” in Ukraine are in fact Neo-Fascists. The moral gulf between the two is basically nonexistent and most Neo-Fascists are really nasty pieces of work, but the difference is that Ukraine’s resident “Classical Fascists” like Bandera and Melnyk had cautious (or not so cautious) hopes that the Nazis would serve as useful allies in the crusade for an independent (if appropriately totalitarian) Ukraine free of the Soviet Union, Poland, and Jews.
So they literally did not see it coming when Hitler backstabbed them and arrested the likes of Bandera before ordering the “liquidation” of them. This got to be so bad that the Ukrainian Insurgent Army first tapered off and then stopped their pogroms against Jews, and indeed started recruiting them.
Even decades later most of Ukraine’s modern Neo-Fascists have never forgiven Hitler or his modern day admirers for the backstab.
Agreed. Indeed, I still remember the “reset.”
Except the “coup” against a “Russian favoring Ukraine government” was in fact a bunch of protests (“mostly nonviolent” with a fair amount of rioting and police brutality) that culminated in one part of the “Russian favoring Ukraine government”- namely the Verkovna Rada- becoming disturbed at even-more-pro-Russian President Yanukovych doing outright illegal stuff. So they summoned him to appear before them in order to hear explanations of his actions, Yanukovych responded by stealing some things and fleeing the country, at which point the democratically-elected Rada (which was in fact elected alongside Yanukovych) deposed him for incapacity to fulfill his office.
Moreover, while the Obama regime did openly support the Euromaidanites and showed a bit too much public support for Yanu’s ouster than I liked, it was nothing in comparison to the invasions Putin’s troops made at a time when the Ukrainian government was now a provisional caretaker one pending new elections.
Indeed.
Well said indeed, and worrying stuff. Honestly, while my standings regarding Ukraine are anything but subtle I do think we cannot afford to let it interfere too much with our opposition to the Biden junta.
@Neo
I mean, it wasn’t entirely democratic or legal; there was quite a lot of illegal rioting and domestic terrorism by both Euromaidanites (or those in defacto alliance with them like Right Sector) and by pro-Yanukovych factions, including a lot of the Interior Ministry like the justifiably-hated Berkut.
But the removal had surprisingly little to do with the course of the protests/riots so much as it had to be with Yanukovych’s increasingly illegal attempts to squelch them.
Swoboda thats the neo upa faction, barks up the wrong tree it had some ministers in the post maidan regime but they were largely taken down in the deluge over the privat default now the path from the hromada to petlura to the holomodor to bandera is long and winding the time after didnt really encourage liberal discourse
Then the post soviet they were subject to similar forces like poland and bolivia rthe first fared better the second markedly less
Interesting precis on swedish history one nationalist faction the hats sought to reclaim what they had lost with russia it went poorly not only the russian rematch but the pomeranian part of the seven years their rival the night caps held power for a time but then an autocrat carl gustav took power