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Home » Switzerland has frozen Russian assets

Switzerland has frozen Russian assets

The New Neo Posted on by

Highly unusual:

Switzerland will adopt all the sanctions that the European Union has imposed on Russian people and companies and freeze their assets to punish the invasion of Ukraine, the government said in a sharp deviation from the country’s traditional neutrality.

“We are in an extraordinary situation where extraordinary measures could be decided,” President and Foreign Minister Ignazio Cassis told a news conference in Bern on Monday, flanked by the finance, defence and justice ministers.

Only history would tell if such a move could happen again, he said. Swiss neutrality remained intact but “of course we stand on the side of Western values,” he added…

Switzerland also adopted financial sanctions against Russian President Vladimir Putin, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, effective immediately, and closed its airspace to most Russian aircraft…

It added that [Switzerland] had also banned five oligarchs close to Putin from entering the country, without naming them.

I repeat: really really unusual.

See this for some background about Switzerland and the Nazis during WWII.

Isn’t the Russian pipeline still flowing in Europe, though?

Comments

Switzerland has frozen Russian assets — 92 Comments

  1. Arguably, the Swiss just ended their neutrality. If the Swiss acted as the Nazi’s economic lifeline… exactly how is Russia’s invasion of Ukraine of even greater import?

    Can Europe afford to stop buying gas & oil from Russia?

    Will the sanctions leveled against Russia drive the Russia and China partnership into even closer relationship?

    Will Putin demand payment in Gold for his gas & oil?

    Will all of this assist in China’s attempts to displace the US Dollar from its position as the world’s reserve currency? Especially as the democrats push our debt into ever higher and arguably unsustainable levels?

  3. Geoffrey wrings his hands.

    Will the chickens come home to roost before or after the sky has fallen. 🙂

    Consider that even the Swiss find Vlad’s actions unacceptable. Now the Swiss must accept that they too are targets of Vlad’s ire.
    And yet they did it. Bad NATO!

    There is a common denominator hidden somewhere ……

  4. Interesting. Now asking relevant questions is characterized as the anxious “wringing of hands”…

    Is it that even the Swiss find Vlad’s actions unacceptable?
    Perhaps, but in any case it’s heart warming to learn that the descendents of the Swiss bankers who did find Hitler’s actions acceptable are made of stronger moral fiber…

    Not bad NATO, they’re just following orders.

    Please, as obvious as it is, continue to reveal your lowest denominator.

  5. Vlad, Geoffrey, he is a low specimen that Vlad.

    The Swiss may have learned that holding Hitler’s gold made people think they may have been helping the “baddies.”

    And you realize you are now equating NATO to Nazis?

    Own goal, Geoffrey. Own goal.

  6. This idea that the sanctions will drive Russia closer to China is a straw man argument. They are already close, maybe not as was during the Sino-Soviet Pact, but close enough. Of course since China abstained in the Security Council vote could also be a tell.
    I don’t think China’s currency is all that strong either. There were dreams that the EURO would replace the $$. Hasn’t happened.
    Yes, the Russian Oil and NG should be cut off. Painful, but necessary. Maybe not a good metaphor but sometimes you have to Bite the Bullet. Biden I think is biting something else.

  7. I sure hope this isn’t a social media tsunami pushing government leaders into doing incredibly stupid things they’d never do with just a little thought.

    I realize that nobody wants to actually engage with Geoffrey Britain’s arguments but if China and Russia decide to make a concerted effort to displace the U.S. dollar as the global reserve currency…how bad would even a failed serious attempt of that be for global stability?

    Mike

  8. That NATO is amazingly awesomely powerfull; they can force the Swiss, Swedes, Finns, to do whatever they want without sending tanks, troops, ships, bombs, or missiles across borders.

    NATO can even force poor Vlad to invade Georgia and the Ukraine, but those borders were not much trouble, although he did have to expend ordnance and kill people. But for Vlad what’s not to like about that, you know eggs and omelettes for the Motherland.

  9. Neo-

    I think one aspect that is driving this unusually strong response is this.

    In the 50’s nukes were new and everyone was taught about the threat of war. And threats were regularly made by one side or another.

    But it has been nearly 40 years since anyone has talked about this openly. It has moved into the background in all that time. Where most of the concern is with some radical country or group getting one or two.

    Now you have the country with the largest arsenal in the world. Trying to openly blackmail every other country. And the west is betting that Putin is still a rational actor in this.

    As a plus its also demonstrating to China who has very similar claims to Taiwan what they have in store. Which from the Chinese perspective I believe was the point. Goad the Russians on. And gauge the response. If appropriately weak,invade Taiwan and forcing the rest to divide their forces. If strong wait for a better opportunity

  10. Looking like Neo needs to rein in at least one commentor who frequently attacks another commentor. We can get that crap on Facebook; the level of intelligence normally otherwise shown in these comments is one of the reasons I read this blog.

  11. I realize that nobody wants to actually engage with Geoffrey Britain’s arguments

    People have done so repeatedly in these threads. You’re sloppy.

  14. If the Swiss acted as the Nazi’s economic lifeline
 exactly how is Russia’s invasion of Ukraine of even greater import?

    Switzerland was neutral during the 2d World War. It was prior to the war an affluent country, but one with 1/20th Germany’s population. In what universe could they have possibly been Germany’s ‘economic lifeline’?

  15. Interesting to see the “conservatives = Putin” thread all over today.

    I think Putin has misjudged his army and the situation. I was very surprised to see him actually invade as I think he was winning until then. The Biden handlers wanted to stir up a fuss to hide his failures but it got out of hand. Putin was winning as long as his opponent was senile Joe. It was typical of the people around Biden to offer to fly Zelenskyy out of the country. It’s what they would do and Putin knows it. He did not anticipate a hero.

  16. Sure you have Art.

    Since every thread is archived here and open to inspection by participants, I have no clue why you are attempting this sort of puerile taunting. Any interested party can see what the moderatrix has had to say in response to you and what several other regulars have had to say. They can also read your rather personal attacks on other participants.

  18. Art,

    Please provide an example of my engaging in a personal attack.

    Not a reaction by me to a personal attack but of my launching an unprovoked personal attack.

    Our host has disagreed with me and I have always responded in a respectful manner. She indicated in her last comment to me that she felt that I was “beating a dead horse”. I acknowledged her POV and haven’t written of my rationale and conclusions since, nor will I unless she specifically invites me too.

    As for the highlighted articles I’ve linked to on this thread, are you suggesting that they should be censored as well?

    BTW, I’m still waiting for you to respond in a factual manner to my debunking of your assertion that NATO ceased its expansion after 2004. You’ll forgive me if I don’t hold my breath?

  19. I think mythx has a good point, and I hope that is it. I’ll ignore the “but they didn’t do this to Hitler”, because they didn’t do this to Putin when he invaded the Ukraine in 2014 and annexed Crimea. They didn’t act when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008. I think we should ask why now is freezing banking assets more appealing to the Swiss?

  20. Art @ 7:35

    Hey, I just referred to the article’s assertion that neo linked to in her post. Presumably she agrees with it since she didn’t offer any qualification of it.

    If you disagree with the Swiss acting as the Nazi’s economic (financial) lifeline, your argument is with neo, not me.

  23. And yet again in response to a reasoned assertion…the 3rd graders emerge from the shadows to show how far up a wall they can pee.

    Boss…your blog your rules…but I reckon you need a bouncer now & again.

  24. “People have done so repeatedly in these threads.”

    Art, like you said. People can actually read these threads. They don’t just exist in your mind.

    Mike

  25. Leland:

    Swiss bankers.

    Hitler.
    Vlad – Georgia
    Vlad – Crimea
    Vlad (proxies) – Donbass
    Vlad – Ukraine
    Vlad – Threats to Sweden,
    Finland

    Swiss bankers ask is there is a trend here? Does Putin put all Europe at risk, even us, the Swiss? Swiss bankers act.

  26. Art, like you said. People can actually read these threads.

    Then you go do it and you can see what has been said in response to Geoffrey Britain’s prolix and repetitive points, and quit pretending no one has ‘engaged’ with him.

  27. BTW, I’m still waiting for you to respond in a factual manner to my debunking of your assertion that NATO ceased its expansion after 2004.

    I’ve already answered your complaint multiple times. You persist in pretending I haven’t.

  28. As for the highlighted articles I’ve linked to on this thread, are you suggesting that they should be censored as well?

    No clue what you’re complaining about here.

  29. om,

    I wasn’t implying that I was or am being censored. Just that cavalier dismissal of information contrary to your point of view without reasoned, fact based rebuttal amounts to censorship.

    As in, the unspoken implication; why would any rational person consider anything that “Vlad’s boy” might have to offer?

  30. @Geoffrey, Art Deco:I’m still waiting for you to respond in a factual manner to my debunking of your assertion that NATO ceased its expansion after 2004.

    Yeah I thought North Macedonia joined in 2020, which wasn’t very long ago, with Albania, Croatia and Montenegro having joined between 2004 and 2020.

    My link goes to NATO’s website (excerpted below), what am I missing?

    1 April 2009: Accession of Albania and Croatia.

    4 December 2009: NATO foreign ministers invite Montenegro to join the MAP.

    22 April 2010: NATO foreign ministers invite Bosnia and Herzegovina to join the MAP, authorising the North Atlantic Council to accept the country’s first Annual National Programme only when the immovable property issue has been resolved.

    2 December 2015: NATO foreign ministers meeting in Brussels invite Montenegro to start accession talks to join the Alliance, while encouraging further progress on reforms, especially in the area of rule of law. In a statement on NATO’s “open door” policy, ministers encourage Bosnia and Herzegovina to undertake the reforms necessary for the country to realise its Euro-Atlantic aspirations and to activate its participation in MAP. Ministers also reiterate their decisions at Bucharest and subsequent decisions concerning Georgia, welcoming the progress the country has made in coming closer to the Alliance and expressing their determination to intensify support for Georgia.

    19 May 2016: Allied ministers sign the Accession Protocol, following which Montenegro has ‘Invitee’ status and starts attending North Atlantic Council and other NATO meetings.

    5 June 2017: Accession of Montenegro

    11 July 2018: At the Brussels Summit, following the historic agreement between Athens and Skopje on the solution of the name issue, Allied leaders invite the government in Skopje to begin accession talks to join NATO. Full implementation of the agreement on the solution of the name issue is a condition for a successful conclusion of the accession process.

    5 December 2018: Allied foreign ministers decide that NATO is ready to accept the submission of Bosnia and Herzegovina’s first Annual National Programme under the MAP. The registration of immovable defence property to the state remains essential.

    6 February 2019: The Allies sign the Accession Protocol of the Republic of North Macedonia, following which the country takes part in NATO activities as an invitee.

    15 February 2019: The Republic of North Macedonia is officially recognised by its constitutional name, following the full implementation of the agreement between Athens and Skopje.

    27 March 2020: Accession of the Republic of North Macedonia

  31. I don’t know the scope of Switzerland’s involvement with pre-war and WWII Nazi Germany. We know that historically financial matters trumped nearly all else in Switzerland; with the exception of preserving official neutrality status, and protecting border integrity. Switzerland maintained a robust militia system for self defense in a chaotic world. A Mauser in every closet sort of thing.

    I do know that many U.S. bomber crews found sanctuary in Switzerland if they could get their damaged aircraft across the border. The husband of an older cousin spent the latter days of the war interned in Switzerland.

  32. “I’ve already answered your complaint multiple times. You persist in pretending I haven’t.” Art Deco

    Somehow I missed it, was your answer later that day? Night? Next day? Rather than having to go to the trouble of digging it up, just explain how your assertion that NATO expansion stopped after 2004… is correct, given that NATO welcomed members “Albania and Croatia joined on 1 April 2009, prior to the 2009 Strasbourg–Kehl summit.

    The most recent member states to be added to NATO are Montenegro on 5 June 2017 and North Macedonia on 27 March 2020.”

    Please explain the contradiction.

  33. Yeah I thought North Macedonia joined in 2020, which wasn’t very long ago, with Albania, Croatia and Montenegro having joined between 2004 and 2020.

    You all have problems with maps and recent history. For the 3d time, all of these countries are along the Adriatic. That is not an eastward expansion of NATO. Yugoslavia was never a member of the Warsaw Pact. Albania ceased co-operating with the other members of the Warsaw Pact in 1961, six years after it was formed.

  34. Somehow I missed it, was your answer later that day?

    I addressed the point before and after your complaint, and have addressed it again. Take your Aricept.

  35. @Art Deco:You all have problems with maps and recent history. For the 3d time, all of these countries are along the Adriatic

    North Macedonia is landlocked, not along the Adriatic, so maybe you can tone down the snark about maps.

    Okay, so it was not a True Scottish expansion of NATO, I think I get it now. But NATO has been expanding in Europe since 2004. I think reasonable people can disagree about the relevance to the discussion of the fine distinction you are making here, and you might tone it down a bit.

  36. Switzerland is a different nation than it was in the 1930s.
    A whole new set of people. Far less appreciation of the long history of their nation.
    More attached to surface-deep truisms and emotional outlooks popular with the present day generation.
    No surprise that they break with the past.

    GeoffB, I hope you keep posting. I’m not distressed by exposure to opposing points of view.

  37. I think it is an interesting question that Geoffrey raises about the Swiss approach here. Is this indeed the first time that the Swiss banking industry has applied sanctions to a group or country at war somewhere else? I don’t remember whether there had been any such actions taken with respect to, say, some African warlords or something in earlier times.

    And if there had been, was it an independent initiative of the Swiss banking industry or was it required by the Swiss government itself? That last distinction could be relevant in this case; it sounds like this sanctioning of Russian assets is a government-level action rather than an initiative of the banks themselves, collectively or no.

    I don’t have any real idea how the Swiss banking industry works, so would need to understand first, I guess, to what degree the Swiss government manages and/or directs its policies.

    This does seem like a clear step away from the famous Swiss neutrality. Are we to interpret this as the Swiss government feeling it needs to display conscience? Were there some influencers breathing down its neck about how it had supposedly ‘stood by’ in WW II or during the Cyprus occupation or something along those lines? I’m not sure this is a wonderful idea for them.

  38. North Macedonia is landlocked, not along the Adriatic, so maybe you can tone down the snark about maps.

    It’s a four-hour drive from Skopje to the coast.

    Okay, so it was not a True Scottish expansion of NATO, I think I get it now. But NATO has been expanding in Europe since 2004. I think reasonable people can disagree about the relevance to the discussion of the fine distinction you are making here, and you might tone it down a bit.

    I’m not making a fine distinction at all. This is supposed to be some sort of security threat to Russia or some sort of affront because former Russian satrapies are now allied with the west. The countries which joined after 2004 were not Russian satrapies prior to 1989 and their addition does not put the NATO bloc any nearer to Russia. Spain joined NATO in 1986. Was that an affront to Russia? While we’re at it, all of these countries along the Adriatic have tiny productive bases.

  39. Geoffrey your definition of words to suit your fancy is what sometimes makes your coments so enjoyable. Just a bit ago you produced the new Geoffrey definition what it is to be “censored.” LOL

    Great way to interject a bit of humor into these very serious times.

    Now if you can only bring Art Deco to heel. He doesn’t stand to attention an answer as you demand. Life is a challenge at times, eh?

  40. NATO membership need not border Russia to be part of a threat.
    Each nation has at least a start of a military and getting an elite unit put together comes cheap, compared to getting a large army up to First World standards. These guys train with US Special Forces, Delta Force, Marines, etc. Brit Commandos, so forth.
    When things are warm but not entirely on fire, these units MAY be involved and, though they may be small, cumulatively they throw some weight around when they’re not going nose to nose with First World mech Infantry or something. Working in the shadows, looking for that last horseshoe nail.
    In addition, if the new entry, no matter how small, has a few square miles of flat land, an airbase allowing for stationing of NATO air resources, or at least transit, and overflight permissions can ease a NATO air op compared to not having such a connection. Or some improvements in their commercial airport.
    Fifty years ago, the amount of munitions capability you could carry in the back of a pick up truck was limited compared to a dozen each of Javelin and Stinger or EU/NATO equivalent. Which means the Russians–who know this since they do it, too–have to look into a lot more places and follow a lot more leads–and since a lot of people have pickup trucks, it’s a lot of work.

  41. Geoffrey regarding “Vlad fan boy” if you stop spinning for Vlad Putupon it would certainly be forgotten, as maybe the 6 th mistake you’ve made; you seem to keep a tally or database?

    I’ve been told that everybody has a blind spot, could your fixation with NATO and the existential threat it poses to Roosia be your huckleberry?

    Now myself, I have no known blindspots or any other flaws or defects. That made you laugh, I hope.

  42. Richard Aubrey:

    True that, military kit, technology, has changed immensely in 30 years. If Vlad can’t cope with that what is the world to do, learn Russian?

    Not that Vlad is sitting back and chillin. You are aware of the large nuclear powered autonomous nuclear armed torpedo that Vlad has developed? Designed as a second strike weapon to destroy anything left on the coastlines of the US by generating very large tsunamis. I can post links if you are interested.

    The Russians have built some of the largest submarines in the world.

  43. I think it necessary to clear the air a bit.

    Fredericks comment led to me to take another look over my disagreement with Art Deco regarding NATO expansion.

    Art is correct that NATO’s eastward expansion toward Russia’s border stopped in 2004.

    When I read the entry on NATO expansion I failed to look closely at the map and examine it in regard to NATO’s eastward advancement. Art is correct that subsequent additions cannot be claimed to be part of an advancement by NATO eastward toward Russia’s border.

    That acknowledged, I must still take issue with those who claim that NATO has not long desired incorporation of the Ukraine and Georgia into NATO, which would renew NATO’s Eastward expansion.

    Add to this: “As of 2021, NATO officially recognizes three aspiring members: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine.[3]”

    This: [3] “At the 2008 Bucharest Summit, the Allies agreed that Georgia and Ukraine will become members of NATO in future.” https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49212.htm

    That was posted on NATO’s website on May 5, 2020

  44. This idea that the sanctions will drive Russia closer to China is a straw man argument. They are already close,

    They are not close, and never will be. Not while they are controlled by the current rulers.

    Two expansionist powers fighting for control of the same regions are never going to be close. Every action in China’s “belt and road” is a blow directly against Russian influence. Mongolia used to be a Russian protectorate, and is now a Chinese one. That will rankle with Putin. Now the Chinese are trying to muscle in on the “stans”. That will go down even worse.

    Russia is near broke, so to oppose China’s money it only has military power. Which is why China doesn’t invade places, but keeps the money flowing, and Russia keeps on sending in the troops. If it’s near neighbours don’t fear it, they are likely to drift off.

    The only significant thing China and Russia agree on, is that they don’t like democracy, and will actively work to suppress it. They will not oppose the other’s path to doing so. Hence China abstained recently, and Russia doesn’t mention Hong Kong.

  45. At the 2008 Bucharest Summit, the Allies agreed that Georgia and Ukraine will become members of NATO in future

    The Allies are taking their sweet time.

  46. The Washington Examiner post makes mention of some parts of the Swiss declaration that Reuters (Neo’s link) did not.
    Those concern me somewhat, in the context of today’s world.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/switzerland-deviates-from-neutrality-sanctions-russia?utm_campaign=article_rail&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=article_rail

    “To play into the hands of an aggressor is not neutral. Having signed the Geneva convention of human rights, we are bound to humanitarian order,” Swiss President Ignazio Cassis said, according to CNN. “Other democracies shall be able to rely on Switzerland; those standing for international law shall be able to rely on Switzerland; states that uphold human rights shall be able to rely on Switzerland.”
    ….
    Cassis said Switzerland was deviating from its neutrality due to “the unprecedented military attack by Russia on a sovereign European state.” He said the country will evaluate future sanctions on a case-by-case basis.

    “Russia’s attack is an attack on freedom, an attack on democracy, an attack on the civil population, and an attack on the institutions of a free country. This cannot be accepted regarding international law, this cannot be accepted politically, and this cannot be accepted morally,” Cassis said, according to CNN.

    Well, CNN – but I don’t see a motive for them to distort the Swiss position.

    All of that sounds good, but what we’ve seen here (January 6 Gulag – they attacked our democracy!), Canada (the Trucker Convoy call for freedom is Fascist!), and the never-ending attacks of the UN on Israel (having Jewish and Muslim neighborhoods is apartheid!) sure makes it easy to believe that the Swiss can now be persuaded to step up the fight against the usual list of villains that the Wokerati have concocted.

  47. Indeed, it is curious/interesting/alarming—amusing?—to note that with regard to the “knee-jerk” (or should that be “malice aforethought”? or “standardized”—heck, let’s call it “TACTICAL”) labeling of your political opponents as “Nazi” and/or “Swastika waver” and/or “White Supremacist” and/or “Racist” and/or “TRUMPIST”—even should those opponents be Jewish—“Biden”, Trudeau and Putin do seem to be on the same page.

    While one may have expected such pathologies from a former KGB officer, the fact that such a tactic has been EMBRACED by the other two—purported leaders of purportedly “free” countries—tells us all we need to know about them, their mindsets and their intentions.

    And it ain’t pretty.

  48. “…sure makes it easy to believe that the Swiss can now be persuaded to step up the fight against the usual list of villains that the Wokerati have concocted.”

    Yes, entirely possible, unfortunately; unless the Swiss decide that this is an extremely special circumstance with horrifying ramifications that must be nipped in the bud. A “one-off”. (Well, one can hope….)

    Related—from an astute right-of-center analyst in a country that figures prominently on that “list of villains that the Wokerati have concocted”: adiscussion of the extremely fine line that Israel must walk in the current crisis:
    “Israel doesn’t have to join the West against Russia;
    “The same western countries demanding that Jerusalem condemn Moscow’s actions in Ukraine are the ones leading policy that goes against Israel’s existential interests.”—
    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/323085

  49. “
sure makes it easy to believe that the Swiss can now be persuaded to step up the fight against the usual list of villains that the Wokerati have concocted.”

    Whether it’s prudent or not for Switzerland to take this measure, your analogy stinks. We’re looking a foreign country with imperial ambitions working to annex a neighboring country making use of preposterous excuses for so doing. Putin’s an actual villain here, not one of the fakes tossed up by the wokerati.

  50. “…tossed up…”

    You’re right…but that’s not what AF said (fun with selective quotes, notwithstanding…).

    The larger question WRT to Switzerland is WHAT exactly can the Swiss do aside from major—and this IS major—deviations from its banking traditions (perhaps even its laws) to squeeze the pitiless aggressor financially, hoping that such a move may succeed? (Actually, with this move, the Swiss may have committed “Reliable, Ultra-Discreet Banking” suicide…in which case, it’s a step that shouldn’t be pooh-poohed.)

    Though you’re right—again—that given the current threat, it’s weak tea. Which leads back to the question above.

    (But honestly: are we really looking up to the Swiss to provide responsible, rock-solid leadership in this crisis? When, in fact, the one we would ordinarily look up to is AWOL—no that’s not correct: he’s “away” as a matter of policy and ideology and “ethic”, which BTW is just another reason why Trump HAD TO BE removed at all costs.)

    Since one must assume that—unless the Russians themselves somehow find a way to derail Putin—“Biden” will NOT step up (one hopes I’m wrong, certainly, but I think that’s a “safe” bet), it will be then up up to Britain and/or France to provide the rhetoric AND the backbone. (Not ordinarily a winning ticket; but then who really can know at the 11th hour?)

    Question: IF the only way to stop Putin is war; and IF “war is never the answer”, then what are we left with?

    Time (again) to repost a repost from Victor D. Hanson:
    https://amgreatness.com/2022/02/27/the-crowded-road-to-kyiv/

  51. Trump did warn Europe that it needed to look to its own defense. Courtesy of Biden’s, and Europe’s, foolish energy policies, that moment has arrived.

    I have been confused by references in commentary about Tucker Carlson and what he’s been saying. I don’t watch, but I did just read the text of his commentary from last night. Basically, I agree with him. Calls for the US to enforce a no-fly zone are essentially calls for the US to go to war with Russia. This is Europe’s fight. Supporting Ukraine with arms and sanctions will help, we hope.

  53. “Calls for the US to enforce a no-fly zone are essentially calls for the US to go to war with Russia.”

    Not necessarily.

    It’s the whole point, actually.
    The age-old question:
    If you stand up to a bully, are you provoking that bully are you forcing the bully to back down—or, to put it another way, “enabling” that bully to “reassess” the situation and then decide to withdraw. (There’s always a chance of a fight, of course.)

    IOW does deterrence pour oil on the flames or does it put out the fire?
    The age-old question….

    To be sure, deterrence has to be REAL—and most importantly perceived to be REAL—and effective.

    At this point the only deterrence that Biden wields is intimidating parents who want their kids to be truly taught and intimidating teachers who wish to truly teach.

  55. OM
    Missed the point. Trying again; as what may as well be a law of physics, more NATO makes Russia nervous on emotional, historical grounds. It also hinders military planning for adventurism. They don’t like more NATO, even w/o a common border. Thus, we should be prepared to resist their tantrums.
    Point about weapons is not the Big Stuff. It’s that even Ruritania’ s palace guard has to be watched.
    Recall that, during a low point of the Yom Kippur war, a bunch of Israeli officers were flown to the US for TOW training, returned with a batch of the things and killed Arab tanks by the, reportedly, hundreds.
    I like more NATO. But it requires planning for Russia’s reaction.

  57. Germany gets REAL (continued)….

    “Biden”, however, is another story:
    “Manchin to Biden: Stop buying Russian oil and ramp up domestic production now”—
    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/03/01/manchin-to-biden-stop-buying-russian-oil-and-ramp-up-domestic-production-now-n451969

    Which might prompt one to wonder: what does Putin “have” on “Biden”?
    (IOW, is True Jen’s “but-we’re-exploring-carbon-fuel-alternatives-really-we-are” laugher is just another convenient cover-up?)

  58. “What does Putin have on Biden?” He knows he is harmless and likely dependent on those running him to tell him what day it is. I disagree about the US establishing a “no fly zone” over Ukraine. That is war.

    We could really hurt Putin by returning to Trump’s energy policies but that won’t happen for reasons that everybody understands.

  59. @Art Deco:It’s a four-hour drive from Skopje to the coast.

    Lol. Then North Macedonia with more justice is “along the Aegean” since it’s only a three-hour drive from Skopje to Thessaloniki, and Luxembourg is “along the English Channel”, and Idaho is “along the Pacific”. Nothing in Europe is all that far from anything else by American standards…

    Spain joined NATO in 1986. Was that an affront to Russia?

    At least as much we were affronted by any nation anywhere in the world joining the Soviet alliances…

  61. Switzerland was totally surrounded by Nazi nations or those nations allied with Nazi Germany during WWII e.g., Germany, Austria, Vichy France , German occupied France, Mussolini’s Italy.
    Nothing could get in or out of that nation unless it was permitted by the surrounding nations or sneaked into/out of Switzerland. This includes the airspace into/ out of Switzerland.
    One would think the situation they were faced with – being totally surrounded – influenced / determined their behaviour during the war.

    When a neutral nation is surrounded by war they will be forced to do things they would otherwise never do.
    Sweden – once or twice – during WWII allowed the German army passage via rail and via their territorial waters. The Germans were on their way to Finland to fight the Russians.
    What choice did Sweden have??
    Say no to Germany and risk an attack / invasion by Germany?
    Allow their passage knowing that the greater threat in that dangerous neighborhood was , had always been , and still is, Russia?
    And if the Germans were going to fight Russia, well, why shouldn’t the Swedes have done this?
    Were the Swedes wrong in doing this?

    The notion that NATOs expansion post 1991 (the year the USSR fell apart) is/was a contributing factor to Putin’s aggression suggests that if NATO had not done this, Putin would not have invaded Ukraine and earlier Crimea (and Georgia?)

    Guys like Putin have been around for a million years; they ALWAYS find a reason to explain / rationalize their actions.
    I would not be surprised if similar type arguments were forwarded to excuse Hitler’s actions; that if the UK/France/USA/ Treaty of Versailles had only been /done /not done…. whatever, then Hitler would not have done this or that.

    True, several years ago some “experts” were saying Ukraine should be encouraged to declare neutrality and by doing so, it will avoid future problems. These experts are now being cited as prescient

    Of course, this assumes that it was NATOs expansion that FORCED Putin to act; there is no proof of this however and Putin’s own words suggest otherwise.

    Putin’s version of history, his comments about the fall of the USSR (“the worst geopolitical event of the 20th century,”) imply he had grander designs that were not motivated by NATOs actions.

    (His comment is simply incredible, considering the 20th century included TWO world wars, the deaths of millions, and the ascent of the three worst mass murderers in world history – Mao, Hitler, Stalin).

    And speaking of NATO; no nation is forced to join NATO. They choose to do so voluntarily. It’s no coincidence that many former Eastern Bloc nations and former republics of the USSR opted to join.
    Perhaps their first hand experience with the Russian Bear had some influence in their decision to join NATO.

    Bad apples rise to the top and when they do, they do rotten things. And they do rotten things because they are really bad apples. They will always provide a rationale to justify their actions.

  62. At least as much we were affronted by any nation anywhere in the world joining the Soviet alliances


    Thanks for the deflection. Been an education.

    Lol. Then North Macedonia with more justice is “along the Aegean” since it’s only a three-hour drive from Skopje to Thessaloniki, and Luxembourg is “along the English Channel”, and Idaho is “along the Pacific”. Nothing in Europe is all that far from anything else by American standards


    Idaho is nine hours from the coast.

  63. Frederick:

    From Miami to the Bay of Pigs is about as far as you can throw your Spain analogy.

    Clue, the Ukrainians are a bit more that affronted by Vlad’s pique.

    LOL back at yah

  64. So now Fredrick will chime in saying Post Falls is only 4 hours to Seattle by I-90 and Art Deco may reply he was picking a town near the ID/UT state line, or Art may reply you have to get to the Pacific Ocean not just the Puget Sound. Should be interesting.

  65. Well said, John Tyler.
    Perhaps it had escaped notice that most of the later additions to NATO were countries that had experienced the Russian boot on their necks; or at least felt its fetid breath.

    It is interesting that many smaller countries do not bring real war fighting capability to NATO. All they bring is NATO’s commitment to their defense. Putin’s straw man is flimsy; and should be treated with the scorn it deserves.

    I am not a mental health professional, but my layman’s diagnosis of Putin is that he suffers from “Genghis Syndrome”.

  67. @Art Deco:Idaho is nine hours from the coast.

    Erm, I’ve driven it…

    @om:Fredrick will chime in saying Post Falls is only 4 hours to Seattle by I-90 and Art Deco may reply he was picking a town near the ID/UT state line…

    Yeah, I don’t want to make that prediction come true. I think, Art Deco, you’re having to split too many hairs to be as condescending as you have been.

    Clue, the Ukrainians are a bit more that affronted by Vlad’s pique.

    Yeah, om, I’m aware. The only thing the Ukrainians did wrong is pick useless friends; friends who live thousands of miles away, think words are the same as actions, and think that because they sincerely believe their own BS that everyone else does too.

    If you try to pet a rabid dog, that dog may bite you, much more likely than if you stayed away from it. Making nice doggie noises while you approach it will not reduce your chances of getting bitten as much as staying out of its yard does. Pointing this out doesn’t make me pro-rabies, nor does it make me unsympathetic to the people who have to live next door to it.

    When there’s a balance of power, and one of the sides makes moves over time to shift that balance, reactions from the other side have to be anticipated and planned for, not wished away. I strongly suspect none of that planning and anticipation happened, because if it had, either Ukraine would have aligned with Russia already as many small nations in their position have had to do, or would have real partners that Putin would fear to tangle with.

    Instead, as usual, we chose the worst-of-both-worlds and a lot of people now have to suffer. Sure, Putin’s the bad guy, but there’s a lot of well-meaning fools who have emboldened him by making alliances on paper without any reality behind them.

    It’s not much different from the fools like our Vice-President putting up the bail money for murderers so they are free to kill again (and do). VP Harris didn’t murder anyone, but her irresponsible do-gooderism contributed to people getting killed and she should have known better. She got her photo-op and moved on to the next thing leaving the innocent behind her to deal with it…

    If it’s really going as badly as our completely untrustworthy media would have us believe, the world got very lucky at Ukraine’s expense. If a powerful and rich continent has decided that maybe they need to be serious nations now and look to being able to really defend themselves then that’s a silver lining.

  68. Yeah, I don’t want to make that prediction come true. I think, Art Deco, you’re having to split too many hairs to be as condescending as you have been.

    The man who complained that one of the former Yugoslav states does not have an Adriatic coastline is not the one to be complaining about splitting hairs.

  69. “Biden” said, “Trust us”.
    Ukraine said, “OK”.

    “Biden” said, “Look how weak we are!—but our weakness is really strength!”
    Putin said, “OK”.

    “Biden” said (sotto voce), “Commitments? What commitments??! Lord knows we have enough of our own problems, you won’t believe how much we have to cover up….”

    But no one heard him…

    And so the SOTU will be simply one impressive coverup. One impressive festival of prevarication and deception…while the massive and bloody “distraction” of Ukraine will be exploited both to as THE REASON for “Biden”‘s own policy disasters AND as a weapon with which to attack his domestic political opponents (on whom “he” will blame EVERYTHING).
    As we saw in Afghanistan, it was “ALL Trump’s fault”…while at the same time, it was an “astonishing success”—this straight from the “Biden” Ministry of Truth….

    +Bonus:
    BTW, amongst all those many big things to try to conceal, here’s just one more little thing that a massive distraction may well prevent anyone from noticing…until it’s a fait accompli:
    “The Court-Packing Coup”—
    https://americanmind.org/memo/the-court-packing-coup/
    H/T Powerline blog.

  70. While there are plausible arguments that NATO expansion has overreached, John Tyler makes an excellent point that Putin is not simply Pavlov’s dog responding only to the stimulus of American/Western actions. He has long had his own agenda suggested by his comment bemoaning the fall of the USSR. And as long as we’re beating up the Swiss for having trafficked with the Nazis 80 years ago let’s not forget Putin served in the KGB for many years.

  71. Now we hear that midterm Biden has played the crisis wonderfully. The surreal progressive take on this crisis is that Winston Biden has corn-popped the “killer” Putin, metaphorically taken “the bully” behind the proverbial gym and given him a whomping, slammed his head on the global lunch counter, and in Biden’s deterrent fashion, called him a chump, one of the dregs, a junkie, fat, and a lying dog-faced pony soldier—and capped it all off with “You ain’t white!”

    Joe threatened the toughest sanctions in history that on Wednesday would deter an invasion and by Saturday were never meant to at all. But Biden promises someday a “conversation” to decide whether at some time he still will issue the toughest sanctions in history. Until then, he invites Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy safe passage out of Kyiv—the quickest way to destroy the dogged Ukrainian resistance.

    Left unsaid are the years of rapacious Biden family profiteering in Ukraine, a decade of leftist passive-aggressive love and hate of Russia, from obsequious reset to greedy Uranium One to pathetic “tell Vladimir . . .” to unhinged vetoing of sanctions against the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

    What a crowded road to Kyiv. VDH

    [i hope that as a fond thank you they release all of the stuff ukraine has on biden the family his son, etc]

  72. I think we have found the king of kondecention (sic). Who knew, Art, who knew?
    🙂

  73. Some here will predictably dismiss this as irrelevant but some may find it of enough interest to give it fair consideration.

    “Biden’s CIA Director Doesn’t Believe Biden’s Story about Ukraine”

    “Two years ago, Burns wrote a memoir entitled, The Back Channel. It directly contradicts the argument being proffered by the administration he now serves.

    In his book, Burns says over and over that Russians of all ideological stripes—not just Putin—loathed and feared NATO expansion. He quotes a memo he wrote while serving as counselor for political affairs at the US embassy in Moscow in 1995. ‘Hostility to early NATO expansion,” it declares, “is almost universally felt across the domestic political spectrum here.”

    On the question of extending NATO membership to Ukraine, Burns’ warnings about the breadth of Russian opposition are even more emphatic. “Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin),” he wrote in a 2008 memo to then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. “In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests.”

    https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/bidens-cia-director-doesnt-believe?utm_source=url

  74. Well every Russian can fear whatever they want.
    Their mental health is not a rational excuse to take whatever real estate they desire to calm their nerves.

    I hope this spook is more competent than General Mark “White Rage” Milley.

  75. I believe that at the moment, the American military is far too busy trying to hide some unpleasant Covid vaccine statistics (regarding American soldiers) from the larger public, i.e., anyone and everyone.

    And they’re also quite busy with this:
    “As Russia Wages War, US Army Trains Officers on Gender Identity;
    “Mandatory military training program pushes soldiers to undergo gender reassignment surgery”—
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/03/we-are-not-a-serious-country-5.php

    So we’ll have to give ’em a break. Ease up on ’em a bit. You know, priorities….

  77. It may be reasonable for Russians to fear NATO expansion. This does not make it reasonable for Russia to invade and dismember Ukraine.

  78. I was just thinking today that, with the various financial and economic countermeasures directed toward Russia at the moment from so many different parties, it’s rather shocking in a way that such has become possible in the last few decades. Considering how unlikely this sort of dogpile would have been in, say, 1980, it almost seems as if one of Putin’s points is being demonstrated by these recent reactions to the invasion, one of his beefs having been that Russia has lost much of its reputation for strength since the days of the USSR.

  79. The USSR had the Warsaw Pact. So if they started a war, it would not be fought on Russian territory, but in East Germany, Poland, and so forth. If not, ideally, further west.
    They don’t like having to contemplate a starting a war with NATO in which their own territory is immediately in jeopardy.
    While, as I mentioned earlier, the Russians have unspeakably brutal invasions in their history and, no doubt, cultural memories not even rising the to awareness.
    Not sure where I heard this, but many people see Europe, or any European country as being the size of Russia. They’re each 8 1/2 by 11.
    I believe it was the late Dennis Showalter–highly recommended military historian–who compared attacking Russia as attacking into a fan [shape]. Each mile you go east you get umpteen more miles of front you have to cover. So the invasions haven’t lived up to their originators’ goals. But the fate of the Russians caught in the festivities was appalling, if only from starvation and exposure.

    All of which being true, you’d think trained, cold-eyed professionals like Putin could get over that and calculate nobody’s going to do it again, especially in a nuclear-armed world.
    Two possibilities; it’s so ingrained that he can’t, or he wants to keep some territory to spare for when he starts a war.
    And the cohort from which his advisers–and those of the next guy, and the next–is going to be any different?

    It is said DeGaulle always used the term “Russia” instead of “USSR” because, he said, it’s always Russia notwithstanding its government

  80. It’s interesting how the internet, the interconnected nature of financial markets, and instant video have changed how this is happening. Will these sanctions have the effect that the military units of old would have had? Can Russia be so weakened as to be forced to withdraw or to accept only partial victory? And will Russians support Putin as they suffer the effects of the sanctions, or will someone depose him?

  81. Richard Aubrey:

    Stalin was all in on dividing up Poland with Hitler (and then killing all those Polish leaders at Katyn) but old Uncle Joe didn’t quite savvy that it put Hitler that much closer to Moscow. Then Hitler started Barbarossa. Too bloody by half, old Uncle Joe. Who paid? The Russians, Ukrainians, the new Soviet Man.

    Who is paying for Vlad’s good and grand idea?

  82. I believe it was the late Dennis Showalter–highly recommended military historian–who compared attacking Russia as attacking into a fan [shape]. Each mile you go east you get umpteen more miles of front you have to cover. So the invasions haven’t lived up to their originators’ goals..

    Richard Aubrey:

    Heck, as kids we learned that by playing Risk!

    The worst strategy was to try to take Asia as a continent and hold it unless it was the endgame.

  84. om.
    Lots of invasions fail, some succeed. Keeping in mind Overlord, for example. One might figure that it’s logistics.

    But Russian history includes invasions, failed though they were, which covered huge amounts of territory, sometimes nearly to Moscow, while encircling Leningrad. But it’s not the territory, it’s the people on the land covered by the invaders.

    Hell, Stalin was so awful to the Ukes–see Duranty on the subject–that they were prepared to throw in with the Germans until the Germans started Germaning and got themselves forty million or thereabouts pissed-off people to stay on top of while fighting the war.

    Never been to Russia but I have a relation who studied there. Says for all the western things like jeans and ties and so forth, they have a different culture internally. Part may be a kind of paranoia built in by the horror, the unquantifiable horror, of the invasions.

    Gallipoli and the Persians into Greece just killed a bunch of soldiers. Napoleon’s army survived on food taken from peasants–who starved in huge numbers. Keegan said that, field bakeries not being efficient, a weight of firewood was required equal to the weight of flour used to make bread. People get tired of being cold. Unlikely there were many forests left in the vicinity of villages, so you take down the houses to feed the field bakeries. I recall reading of a traveler from NYC to Boston ca 1810 who wrote to some friends he didn’t see a tree the whole way. So what’s left?

    Foul the wells on your way out just for grits and shins. Young women….

    Brest-Litovsk was supposedly more rigorous than Versailles.

    If this is not in Russian DNA, Lamarck is a fraud. No, wait…… But, anyway, I maintain the history of invasions of Russia are a factor we cannot grok. So we need to keep in mind the rational response to a move by NATO or the EU is not necessarily what we need to look at in our planning.

    The various invasions look inevitably like losers from the get-go from our viewpoint. But the issue is what they looked like to the guys with the hot idea. It is hard to know what they were thinking, but how on earth did they miss all the negative factors? How did they think their way to overcoming the obvious negative factors.

    For centuries, the standard road march/approach march for Infantry under load–maybe one third body weight, has been twenty miles per day. El Paso to New Orleans is further than Berlin to Moscow but…not by a whole lot. At twenty miles per day…..how long? And the wagons? Do you have enough spare wheels and axles? Harness? Horses? The latter will eat as they go, no fodder brought forward for them, hardly possible to feed the troops. So the horses run down. Artillery?
    The question is why the guys who tried it were so stupid. And when the Russians look at the situation, the fact that it looks like a really stupid thing for the EU or NATO to do is meaningless. They’ve been half-ruined by other invasions which any corporal with a map could have guaranteed would fail. History tells them they can’t count on the opposition being rational as to the prospects for invasion–guaranteed failure–and thus not even starting. If I’m right, I suspect this is the only place in the world where it’s true.

  85. Well they were half ruined by the invaders and fully ruined by their own rulers? When, after all, was the golden age of Russia or the USSR? Maybe Hubert knows?

  86. om. Yeah, but the issue is different when you’re looking across the border. Things don’t get better when French troops go over you, or German troops.
    And fully ruined doesn’t mean, Ukraine aside, millions starved on purpose. Most folks could figure out a way to survive…Czars, Stalin, Putin…But getting overrun by an invading army is a whole ‘nother kettle of awful.

  87. “But getting overrun by an invading army is a whole ‘nother kettle of awful.”

    It wasn’t so great for the captive states of Eastern Europe either when they were under the control of the Soviet Union. I would say the chances of them being invaded by Russia are a lot greater than Russia being invaded from the west. I don’t see any Napoleons or Hitlers among today’s Western Eurpoean leaders. And by the way isn’t that exactly what is happening to Ukraine right now?

  88. Well, yeah, war is hell, no two ways about it (W.T. Sherman).

    How did the Russian Empire become an empire, gentle persuasion? That was how the Soviet’s persuaded the Hungarians to remain where they belonged in 1956. Gently. Or keep East Germans in their place, behind that wall or the border, gently with Stassi.

    But this is supposed to be a happy occasion.

  90. om
    I’ve read about the subject. Tempted some time back but didn’t think I had the stomach for a concentrated application.e
    But my point about the Russian view of things doesn’t require being mixed in with what they’ve done to others. There’s no discount here.
    The Russians look at nations which have invaded them and done horrible things to them. And any corporal with a map could have told….whomever it couldn’t possibly work. So if the Russian planners war game the next invasion and are satisfied it couldn’t possibly work, do the go off to vodka in the calm sense that it won’t be tried since the thing is so obviously nuts?

  91. IMO the “Russian” view of their history is to use that history to justify whatever the current despot wants.

  92. om. Very likely. But, I have to believe, the history of catastrophic invasions and occupations must be part of the, if only subliminal, world view.

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