Remember these guys? Durham vs. Horowitz?
When I read the title of this article – “Durham vs. Horowitz: Tension Over Truth and Consequences Grips the FBI’s Trump-Russia Reckoning” – I had to jog my memory to even recall what it might be talking about. That’s how long ago Russiagate seems to have happened, because so much has intervened.
But of course, I remembered – and you probably do, too. Here’s the main thesis of the piece [emphasis mine]:
As he documents the role of Hillary Clinton’s campaign in generating false allegations of Trump-Russia collusion, Special Counsel John Durham has also previewed a challenge to the FBI’s claims about how and why its counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign began. At stake is the completeness of the official reckoning within the U.S. government over the Russiagate scandal – and whether there will be an accounting commensurate with the offense: the abuse of the nation’s highest law enforcement and intelligence powers to damage an opposition presidential candidate turned president, at the behest of his opponent from the governing party he defeated.
I’m going to go out on a limb (a fairly stout limb, I think) and say that no, there will not be anywhere near such a reckoning. Whatever happens further, it will be too little too late. Great damage has already been done, and so far the perpetrators have gotten away with it, with more than a little help from their MSM friends. They must think it was well worth it.
The article is long, but the main point is that Durham thinks Russiagate was far more tainted even from the beginning than Horowitz indicated in his report. You may recall that the report criticized the FBI for many of its Russiagate actions, but it also said that there had been a valid predicate for opening the investigation, although a weak one. Apparently, Durham thinks that even that little bit of legitimacy is bogus.
To accept that the FBI’s decision to open the Trump-Russia investigation was well-founded, one has to stipulate that the nation’s premier law enforcement agency decided to investigate a presidential campaign, and then a president, based on a low-level volunteer having “suggested”, during a barroom chat, “some kind of suggestion from Russia” that contained no mention of the alleged Russian hacking or stolen emails that the Trump campaign was supposedly conspiring over. One would also have to accept that the bureau was not influenced by the far more detailed claims of direct Trump-Russia connections – an alleged conspiracy that would form the heart of the investigation – advanced in the widely-circulating Steele dossier.
Adding to the questions surrounding the FBI’s basis for opening a Trump-Russia counterintelligence probe is that, upon doing so, the Crossfire Hurricane team didn’t bother to contact the campaign volunteer whose vague “suggestion” supposedly triggered it. Instead, the FBI expanded the probe to multiple other figures in the Trump orbit. Although no intelligence connected them to Downer’s vague tip, all three shared the distinction of being named as Russia conspirators or assets in the Steele dossier.
Those three were Carter Page, General Flynn, and Paul Manafort.
I reckon there’s nothing left but for the FBI to be abolished completely, the co-conspirators hung and their duties given to the Federal Marshall Service.
From the second that Trump won the nomination, the deep state, at the behest of the Hillary Clinton campaign, began concocting the Russia-Trump scam.
Too bad nothing at all will come out of any investigation; those engaged in these treasonous activities will be untouched, instead of being hanged by the neck.
So much for our nation of “laws.”
I doubt that any retribution is coming in the short term. There is however a reckoning coming for much of the corruption and double dealing that has debased our politics the last 50 years. The last truly balanced budget was under Eisenhower. The alleged Clinton balanced budget was achieved by raiding the Social Security surplus from the Baby Boomer contributions. The 2008 near collapse was halted only by massive transfers of cash to the wealthy banks and money managers. The ZIRP maintained by Obama, massively increased by the Covid stimulus, will have severe consequences. Not this year, perhaps, but soon. We will have a choice between hyperinflation and a massive recession/depression as the Fed raises interest rates with subsequent national debt default. 15% interest on a $30 trillion debt is not sustainable. When Reagan and Volker did it the national debt was a fraction of what it is now. I doubt I will still be around but I feel for my kids and grandkids.
Related—update:
“Durham: DNC lawyer Marc Elias has given grand jury testimony;
“And – the criminal investigation of Sussmann is ongoing.”
https://technofog.substack.com/p/durham-dnc-lawyer-marc-elias-has
H/T Zerohedge.
Key grafs:
‘Today, Special Counsel John Durham provided a “discovery Update” to the court in the Michael Sussmann case. In this filing, available here, he disclosed that his team has obtained a tremendous amount of information ranging from a variety of sources – including Perkins Coie, the Hillary Clinton Campaign, and former DNC/Clinton lawyer Mark Elias….
‘…While we expected some grand jury testimony, the fact that Mark Elias, the DNC/Clinton lawyer, was before a grand jury is certainly newsworthy. It indicates Durham has used the “crime-fraud exception” to compel disclosure of information and to elicit testimony….’
‘
Yep nothing will done to any of them. Move along, nothing to see here.
Our institutions have been so corrupted, that it would astonish me if anyone connected with this abuse of govenment powers will ever be punished. However, I’m open to being pleasantly surprised. And I know that if people just shrug their shoulders and say “I guess there’s nothing to be done,” then we are most assuredly lost.
As I said many years ago, wake me up when Hillary et al are actually indicted, otherwise…….
This is the legacy of William Barr, Trump’s Attorney General, and people like Andrew McCarthy who vouched for the unimpeachable integrity of the FBI and DOJ. As recently as November 2021, McCarthy was STILL trying to pretend the FBI was somehow tricked or fooled into investigating Trump and Russia.
This is how establishments implode, when the people who can and should do something to address the problems facing the establishment refuse to do so because it is too personally unpleasant.
Mike
The answer really depends on the facts. The parties doing this were fairly sophisticated and there’s a good chance that they played the game well enough to make criminal convictions impossible.
If the Zerohedge link that Barry Meislin provided is correct about Elias and the crime-fraud exception, it might indicate that the perps were sloppy enough to be end up in jail. I guess we’ll see.
I remember long ago when there were those that said “Well, yes the Steele Dossier may be bogus but there are many other valid reasons for investigating Trump’s collusion with Russia”.
This was always nonsense, of course, because if the Steele dossier wasn’t the central piece of “evidence” to begin the investigation, it would never have been used at all. Why would you contaminate an otherwise valid investigation with evidence that you know was fraudulent?
And like the stolen election, I don’t expect any serious consequences for anyone involved in the Russia Hoax.
I really try not to be too cynical because I believe, in the end, extreme cynicism corrodes the soul. But these days it is really hard to be cynical enough.
I’m always surprised to read that Durham is still alive. That said his “investigation” is dead, meaningless, and worse than useless. I don’t think one should expend any more mental cycles on this walrus.
Not being dead he still has truly outlived his usefulness. Are we still paying this doughnut to pop out of the weasel box?
When tyranny is no longer deniable, remember those most responsible and extend to them the precise degree of mercy that they showed to their fellow citizens.
Not vengeance but proportionate consequence.
Gregory Harper,
It can be a fine line in demarcation but hard eyed realism is not cynicism.
I do recall getting the sense during Horowitz’s testimony, that he was frustrated at times, because of the limitations that defined his investigation (limited to in-house material). The career weevil-dicks at the FBI take their time to build their cases, and this includes taking their time to cover any embarrassing tracks. Horowitz outlined some of these ‘absence of evidence’ examples as he summarized his findings. I tend to dismiss any of these tales about friction or conflict between Horowitz and Durham as just wishful spinning by the Corporate Media. I don’t remember what he said exactly, but Horowitz kept repeating during his testimony that what he didn’t find could easily be due to his investigative boundaries, not because these things didn’t happen.
They’ve gotten away with it. Period. By January 2025, the statute of limitations will have run in most or just about all of these crimes.
Besides, when DeSantis is sworn in, he will be so busy fixing the FBI, CIA, supply chains, energy, etc., etc., he won’t have time for any of these.
BTW: in my case, “fixing” the CIA and FBI = abolishing.
I think Durham will actually produce indictments on individuals of consequence over the coming months. But as you said, it’s too little and too late. My only hope is that it will entrap Marc Elias, and Killary.
Gen Bara, “… My only hope is that it will entrap Marc Elias, and Killary”
If so, Durham best not wait too late. You’ve likely heard rumor of Hillary running for POTUS in 2024? Hillary could plan to use that to “force” Durham to drop it. Kinda like they let her off (despite scandals) the last time she ran. And they let Joe & Hunter off in 2020.
Don’t want to sully a democrat candidate, you know.
Lee Smith posits an intriguing possibility that looks new to me.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/what-does-vladimir-putin-have-on-joe-biden
What’s new is not the existence of kompromat on the Biden’s; that’s obvious, as Lee said.
However, I don’t recall anyone else speculating on the connection of Steele and Hunter.
AesopFan:
An interesting speculation!
Whichever Deep State Piss Boys were assigned to run around after Hunter cleaning up his messes in foreign parts (sic) back when Daddy was Veep, they must have had to file copious reports to claim their expenses. And what good government minion fails to claim everything (and more)?
Sometimes I fear I’m just not cynical enough and am going to be Left Behind with the Bronies come the Rapture.
“If the Zerohedge link….”
The link is to TechnoFog site.
Hans Mahncke (twitter feed) links to it as well.
To recap, the TF article is:
https://technofog.substack.com/p/durham-dnc-lawyer-marc-elias-has
…which is a continuation of the TF article of a month ago:
“It’s official: Durham is investigating the Clinton Campaign.”—
https://technofog.substack.com/p/its-official-durham-is-investigating
In addition (related and linked to):
https://twitter.com/HansMahncke/status/1486082714713341958
https://twitter.com/FOOL_NELSON/status/1486185678883160065?cxt=HHwWgoDUwYaA_58pAAAA
(I’d recommend Hans Mahncke’s twitter feed, generally—actually, would consider it required reading but YMMV.)
+ Bonus
Ivermectin (and the Fauci et al. conspiracy to kill multitudes, gain extraordinary politically influence and make scads of money) redux….
“Tess Lawrie zoom call Andrew Hill ADMITS he’s covering up Ivermectin”—
https://twitter.com/alexandrosM/status/1486136274385702912
H/T Hans Mancke twitter feed.
Compare with:
“Large, Peer-Reviewed Research Study Proves Ivermectin Works Against COVID-19”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/large-peer-reviewed-research-study-proves-ivermectin-works
Etc., etc., etc.
Re Horowitz, here’s a comment, FWIW, indicating that he hasn’t been cooperating with Durham’s investigation (though one would hope that this assessment is incorrect…):
“The most shocking revelation to come out of Durham’s filing today isn’t that Elias was called by the grand jury or that Sussmann remains under criminal investigation–we knew they’re bad actors. It’s that Horowitz has been highly uncooperative with Durham. Deep state cleanup man.”
https://twitter.com/HansMahncke/status/1486143204886040585?cxt=HHwWksC-yd7X658pAAAA
Not sure about kompromat on Biden and crew. Do they seem capable of being embarrassed? Do their supporters seem like the kind of people who would care?Is there any reason to think any crimes might be investigated much less prosecuted by any arm of Justice?
Is there any crew you can think of which is less capable of shame?
Anybody recall any Clinton supporters leaving his fold when the dirty stuff came out? Same bunch supporting Biden. I don’t think the Russians are dumb enough not to know this. They’re sitting on, possibly paid for, a mess of pottage. And they know it.
If you almost forgot Durham, how is your memory on Uranium One? Recall Bill getting $500,000 for a 30-minute speech? Trump jib of asking the Russians for Hilary’s email account was only partly a joke. How did he know every email sent and received also went to a Chinese account? Why isn’t she in prison?
While tortoise Durham does whatever he’s doing, the hares are running free.
I doubt anyone significant will get charged, but it would be wonderful to learn there actually is justice in America. Barr and Durham have let me down too many times before.
However, if little fish are to be charged it would be wonderful to see Peter Strzok get his comeuppance.
BTW: in my case, “fixing” the CIA and FBI = abolishing.
Pretty much. My suspicion is that the way to go with the FBI is to sort its employees into bins and identify those who’ve worked in divisions where the use of agents provacateurs and FISA applications is the order of the day.When you’ve identified them, fire them and debar them by law from federal employment. The rest of the agency’s staff can be assigned to agencies with distinct missions. Going forward, we should never have an omnibus federal investigatory service again. For good measure, raze their headquarters in Washington.
About the CIA, Reuel Marc Gerecht (who, by his account, was employed there) has said that it’s cardinal problem is a dysfunctional promotion system, whereby agents advance based on the number of contacts they develop and not based on whether those contacts ever provided useful information. See also Richard Cohen’s brief memoir of his life in the insurance business ca. 1970. He recalled a profile of one man in a trade magazine whose co-workers read the article and put him under scrutiny, eventually having him busted for embezzlement as the profile made it plain he was living beyond his means. Cohen noted it was known by CIA staff that Ames lived oddly well, but it his superiors never mounted an inquiry. Also, you look at Ames and Frank Snepp and Michael Scheuer and it does strike you that the CIA is not recruiting people of great intellect or education. One of the men who served on Wm. J. Casey’s outside advisory committee said that Casey assembled the committee in part because he presided over an agency of men who read metropolitan newspapers and little else.
Horowitz is part of the coverup. So was Barr.
There has been a lot of speculation that Roberts’ bizarre moves with the Court are a misguided effort to preserve the influence of the Court. Obviously, hasn’t worked. My own guess is that the Deep State is blackmailing him.
Remember how the Clintons illegally rifled through FBI files to get dirt on opposition players. They also had an “army” of private investigators working for them out of the White House. Those thugs did more than just intimidate witnesses to bimbo eruptions.
Now the Deep State has the NSA to compile blackmail material. I suspect that there are two kinds of people in DC furthering the corruption — those who are true believers in the fundamental transformation to 1984 and those who are being blackmailed.
We need to become a collective Hercules and redirect the river through these stables. Everyone needs to go. Start over. De-Nazify as we did in Germany.
Not sure about that. Possibly. But according to the following is incredibly convoluted. Strange goings on.
Margot Cleveland (via Lee Smith):
“HOLY CRAP: Just finished scrutinizing Durham’s latest filing in Sussmann case and check out this weirdness. Sussmann goes to OIG saying Tech Exe-1 (Joffe) saw an OIG employee’s computer connecting to VPN in foreign country. That alone raises 100 questions, but read below.”
https://twitter.com/ProfMJCleveland/status/1486138104788434949
(It’s an entire twitter roll, I think).
Here’s the Lee Smith retweet:
“Looks like a shakedown”
https://twitter.com/LeeSmithDC/status/1486163393144836102?cxt=HHwWjMCy6ezu9J8pAAAA
And:
“Astonishing — Clinton lawyer took pro-Clinton client snooping on OIG official online activities to IG while OIG was investigating Clinton email investigation. Smells rotten.”
https://twitter.com/LeeSmithDC/status/1486217192312082437?cxt=HHwWisC47a-qjaApAAAA
Further layers of deceit…and coverup, which seems par for the course.
Justice is not being served, Mr. Durham.