The Ray Epps puzzle
The concern about Ray Epps isn’t just whether he was “a law enforcement agent or informant” (we’ll get to that phrase in a moment). It’s also these three things:
(1) Why was he high on the “wanted” list for a while – and then suddenly, when some media outlets focused attention on him, taken off it?
(2) With all the video evidence that he was at the very least a main instigator of the trespassing aspect of the incident for which so many people have been charged, why hasn’t he been charged with anything?
(3) Why hasn’t the government given the answers to (1) and (2)?
With regard to number 1, this is the closest I’ve come to finding a possible explanation:
If the FBI removes a picture, it means its agents no longer need the public’s assistance in identifying him, Daniel Richman, a former federal prosecutor who was an advisor to former FBI Director James B. Comey, told us in a phone interview.
There are many reasons that the FBI would remove Epps’ photo without filing charges during an ongoing investigation, Richman said, including that he may have spoken to investigators and clarified his role or that he is cooperating with investigators and may implicate others.
So has he become a witness for the government? Perhaps. At any rate, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the government will not be charging Ray Epps with anything.
With regard to number question 2, what about a conspiracy or even an incitement charge? Whether or not he’s guilty of those things, he appears to be at least as guilty if not more guilty than many of those whom the government has charged with conspiracy. They were tracked down and charged and in some cases have been detained. Why not Epps? He also clearly was on restricted Capitol grounds, an offense for which some have been charged. Why not Epps?
For that matter, though, if he was indeed a government agent, why was he ever put on the FBI wanted list in the first place? Are they that disorganized?
Epps has – according to the Democrat-dictated and motivated January 6th Committee, denied being a “law enforcement” agent or informant, although why we should believe him or them is anyone’s guess:
“The Select Committee is aware of unsupported claims that Ray Epps was an FBI informant based on the fact that he was on the FBI Wanted list and then was removed from that list without being charged,” the committee said in a statement. “Mr. Epps informed us that he was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on January 5th or 6th or at any other time, and that he has never been an informant for the FBI or any other law enforcement agency.”
Well, that settles it, right? And by the way, was Epps under oath? Only the Shadow knows.
Note also how carefully phrased the statement is. The denial specifies “law enforcement” agencies rather than the more general “government agencies.” What is a law enforcement agency, technically? It’s basically either a police force or the FBI. That seems to leave other possibilities. The government is a big tent these days. And no one under that tent is willing to answer some very simple questions:
With speculation swirling, Republicans have been clamoring for more clarity on Epps, but Justice Department and FBI officials have repeatedly declined to provide answers about the provocateur as well as any FBI informants or agents who may have been embedded within the pro-Trump crowd as people stormed the Capitol and disrupted the certification of now-President Joe Biden’s win in the 2020 election. The Jan. 6 committee made the first move Tuesday, saying House investigators interviewed Epps, but did not offer any insight into whether he was under oath when he denied being an FBI informant.
Epps’ actions that day were highly suspect. For example [emphasis mine]:
Video footage shows Epps, a former president of the Arizona Oath Keepers militia group, urging a crowd of Trump supporters on the evening of Jan. 5, 2021, to “go into the Capitol” the next day, provoking allegations from the crowd that he was working for the federal authorities, with chants of “Fed!”
As former President Donald Trump spoke to supporters outside the White House on Jan. 6, Epps went to work loudly encouraging people to move toward the Capitol. He was also part of an initial group of rioters who broke through a police barrier on Capitol grounds, and he whispered something unknown into the ear of one rioter a few seconds before that person began trying to rip at a police barrier…
There is no evidence that Epps entered the Capitol building during the riot nor is there any footage of him personally participating in acts of violence against police officers or anyone else. He, along with thousands of others, did unlawfully enter the Capitol’s larger restricted grounds, but most of those cases have not been charged.
It is interesting to me that although Epps was constantly urging demonstrators to enter the Capitol, he did not do so himself. Why? Was he aware that that would protect him from charges? And although that last quoted sentence says that most of the people who entered the Capitol’s restricted grounds have not been charged, in fact some of them have been charged for just that. Epps was “wanted” enough to have been prominently featured in an FBI list for six months, so someone must have thought he had violated some law or other, or perhaps many.
More of the details of Epps actions that day can be found in two lengthy Revolver articles: this one and this one. In the last couple of days, there have been a flurry of articles in the MSM of the “pay no attention” variety, but none that I’ve seen actually deal with the many allegations taken from the video. They all conclude, however, that any suspicion of Epps (who clearly was egging people on, at the very least) is “baseless” and “unsupported” (two of their very favorite words).
The MSM and the rest of the left, who ordinarily seem to believe that even those who merely attended the Trump rally are insurrectionists and should be shunned, seem to have no problem these days with Epps although he was clearly a major player.
Note also that all this focus on Epps obscures the issue. There were so many others, some with faces exposed, instigating and even breaking down barriers and/or windows, and as yet uncharged. To me, this is more disturbing than Epps himself.
As for the FBI, it’s keeping mum:
Republican Sen. Ted Cruz raised questions about Epps and about any possible Capitol riot informants during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing featuring Jill Sanborn, the executive assistant director of the FBI’s national security branch, who dodged most of the questions.
Cruz asked her who Epps is, and she said, “I’m aware of the individual, sir. I don’t have the specific background to him.” He asked whether Epps was a federal informant or whether he encouraged anyone to tear down barricades. “I cannot answer that,” she replied to both.
Cruz also asked Sanborn how many FBI agents or confidential informants “actively participated” in the events of Jan. 6. She said only, “I can’t go into the specifics of sources and methods.” The senator then asked directly whether any FBI agents or informants participated, whether any committed any acts of violence, or whether any encouraged or incited acts of violence. Sanborn replied, “I can’t answer that.”
“A lot of Americans are concerned that the federal government deliberately encouraged illegal and violent conduct on Jan. 6,” Cruz claimed. “My question to you — and this is not an ordinary law enforcement question, this is a question of public accountability — did federal agents or those in service of federal agents actively encourage violent criminal conduct on Jan. 6?”
Sanborn replied, “Not to my knowledge, sir.”…
Republican Sen. Tom Cotton also grilled Matt Olsen, the assistant attorney general of the DOJ’s National Security Division, about similar matters Tuesday.
Cotton asked Olsen whether DOJ or the FBI had any “plainclothes officers” about the Capitol riot crowd, and Olsen said he was “not aware of whether or not there were.” When asked if any plainclothes officers entered the Capitol that day, Olsen said, “I don’t know the answer to that.” Cotton criticized his unresponsiveness, and Olsen said, “As a general matter, it’s not appropriate to comment on an ongoing investigation.”
When Cotton brought up Epps, Olsen repeatedly said, “I don’t have any information about that individual.” He also claimed, “I’m not familiar with the most wanted page.”
That seems – unbelievable.
And then there’s this tidbit:
The New York Times reported in September that it had obtained records showing an FBI informant affiliated with the Proud Boys had texted his FBI handler as he marched into the Capitol during the riot. The outlet said the records did not disclose the informant’s identity but contended that “the records, and information from two people familiar with the matter, suggest that federal law enforcement had a far greater visibility into the assault on the Capitol, even as it was taking place, than was previously known.”
Far greater visibility indeed – and probably not just “visibility.” There’s plenty of reason for suspicion, and precious few answers or even acknowledgment that it looks suspicious.
The fact that the odious as well as lachrymose Kinzinger wasted no time in his much-derided attempt to distract attention from any of these legitimate questions and that today’s MSM overflowed with articles “debunking” the “conspiracy theories” generated around not only Epps but also around the hypothesis that J6 was, in fact, an ideologically-motivated “Fedsurrection”, should make any rational person even more suspicious than before. The same people, both within the government and in the media, who have lied about every major story (and many a minor story) since 2016 (and, of course, often before then) should never be given the benefit of the doubt when the event in question concerns the national security apparatus (the “alphabet agencies”) or the thoroughly corrupt Pelosi and the thoroughly corrupt DNC.
No need for speculative suspicions. The circumstances, from Epps’ presence and actions that day, along with the FBI & DOJ official’s silence coupled with the Jan. 6th Committee’s dog & pony show’s sudden ‘retroactive’ absolving of Epps, followed immediately by the MSM’s “nothing to see here, move along” articles leave no reasonable doubt; they are all “Guilty as Hell, Free as a Bird”.
While FBI is the most logical choice for affiliation with Epps, there are many other possibilities. This reminds me of the father of one of my boyhood buds. He was an accountant for the government and also a reserve army colonel. This was the late 60s. Right after the UWisconsin bombing in 1970, he suddenly took off for Madison. Why would an accountant need to go to Madison? Later we found out from his son, that his actual job had more to do with Army intelligence, than with accounting.
The FBI testimony may be right that Epps is not an FBI agent/informant. There are plenty more government agencies that probably had a hand in Fedsurrection.
Thinking about your answer to number 1, perhaps the new game will be;
“We talked to Ray Epps and he’s willing to name people higher up in {insert right leaning organization that needs to be silented} that told him to help in the insurrection.” Then it will be like the Russian Collusion days when we are told the key evidence is coming any moment and the walls are closing in on Trump. Until the clock runs out and it doesn’t matter anymore.
That would explain why the FBI and DOJ can’t answer the question, because he may soon be working for them as a witness against others.
physicsguy, note the carefully phrased denial from the J6 committee that Epps worked for “law enforcement.” You’re right; there are lots of other organizations with whom he could have been coordinating.
At this point, with the DOJ assembling a force to counter “extremists,” that is, anyone who disagrees with the elites in control of the government, the burden is on the government to prove non-involvement. There is no reason for citizens to accept what they say. This is a sad state of affairs.
There is video of Epps “whispering” in the ear of someone at the barricades on Jan 6, and that person immediately thereafter trying to tear down barricades around the capitol.
What I noticed immediately when I saw the video is that the person Epps is whispering to is wearing a MAGA hat — backwards. I distinctly remember hearing soon after Jan 6 that Antifa and whoever else was alleged to have been involved on the sixth was told to “wear a MAGA hat backwards” so they would be recognized by other infiltrators of the “insurrection.” Does anyone else remember this?
One can hope that he will be outed as a Fed, aka Ray Oops, they did it again.
F: I DuckDuckGoed your question. Snopes and many other outlets have debunked the story. You can see those articles on Google as well.
However, I did find this: It’s an eyewitness account written shortly after 1/6 by a credible source. Long and worth a read.
“A few young men wearing Trump or MAGA hats backwards and who did not fit in with the rest of the crowd in terms of their actions and demeanor, whom I presumed to be Antifa or other leftist agitators”
https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/14/i-saw-provocateurs-at-the-capitol-riot-on-jan-6/
The Federalist article was written by J. Michael Waller, senior analyst for strategy at the Center for Security Policy. “His areas of concentration are propaganda, political warfare, psychological warfare, and subversion.”
Here’s how it starts: [“This article is a first-person, eyewitness account drafted the night of Jan. 6 and morning of Jan. 7, so it is not affected by other news coverage or information. The only research aids used in this article were photos and videos that I took from my phone.”]
The deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol bore the markings of an organized operation planned well in advance of the Jan. 6 joint session of Congress.
A small number of cadre appeared to use the cover of a huge rally to stage its attack. Before it began, I saw from my vantage point on the West Front of the Capitol what appeared to be four separate cells or units:
Plainclothes militants. Militant, aggressive men in Donald Trump and MAGA gear at a front police line at the base of the temporary presidential inaugural platform;
Agents-provocateurs. Scattered groups of men exhorting the marchers to gather closely and tightly toward the center of the outside of the Capitol building and prevent them from leaving;
Fake Trump protesters. A few young men wearing Trump or MAGA hats backwards and who did not fit in with the rest of the crowd in terms of their actions and demeanor, whom I presumed to be Antifa or other leftist agitators; and
Disciplined, uniformed column of attackers. A column of organized, disciplined men, wearing similar but not identical camouflage uniforms and black gear, some with helmets and GoPro cameras or wearing subdued Punisher skull patches.
All of these cells or groups stood out from the very large crowd by their behavior and overall demeanor. However, they did not all appear at the same time. Not until the very end did it appear there was a prearranged plan to storm the Capitol building, and to manipulate the unsuspecting crowd as cover and as a follow-on force.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/14/i-saw-provocateurs-at-the-capitol-riot-on-jan-6/
F: I recall reading that Antifa types turned their MAGA caps backwards as the event proceeded, which this link echoes:
https://www.ibtimes.sg/did-antifa-members-disguise-themselves-trump-supporters-incite-us-capitol-siege-54710
Wesson: the ibtimes article casts doubt on the story: “The right-wing is now using the clip to push the baseless conspiracy theory of Antifa’s involvement in Wednesday’s violent insurrection – a common refrain from the far-right.”
But Waller was there and is sticking with his observations at the time.
“At this point, with the DOJ assembling a force to counter “extremists,” that is, anyone who disagrees with the elites in control of the government, the burden is on the government to prove non-involvement. There is no reason for citizens to accept what they say.” Kate
They don’t care whether we accept what they say. They can arrest and jail anyone whom they please without any evidence whatsoever. While denying them a lawyer and keep those they arrest in solitary confinement. And deny those they arrest medical treatment under inhumane conditions. This administration can do this because they have been doing exactly that for close to a year.
Life imprisonment for “trespassing” upon public property.
Trials followed by mass executions of the perpetrators is the only just consequence for what they have wrought.
See this comment from yesterday.
https://www.thenewneo.com/2022/01/11/and-speaking-of-the-gop-and-fighting-spirit/#comment-2601041
And this story at Red State on “methinks the Democrat doth protest too much.”
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/01/11/the-january-6th-committee-releases-an-incredibly-odd-statement-after-ted-cruz-asks-about-ray-epps-n505044
Follow up:
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/01/11/adam-kinzinger-blows-up-the-jan-6-game-against-the-gop-with-his-ray-epps-defense-n505226
A formidable post.
Now let’s do John Sullivan…
and his GoPro camera;
and his violent antics inside the Capitol on Jan. 6 (which he filmed with his handy—heady?—GoPro);
and his sale of that “fantastically” violent “insurrectionist” footage to CNN for I believe $70,000 bucks;
and CNN’s non-stop broadcasting of said footage (along with other “great” stuff);
his disappearance from the scene (no FBI wanted photos, no nothin’);
and his being forced by court-order to return the $70,000 to “poor” unsuspecting CNN (they may have been ordered to return the footage to him, as well, I’m not certain…);
and his previous appearance in Portland (and perhaps other incendiary locales), claiming to be a BLM member, to offer to “help out” antifa with their “mythological” mayhem and other “non”-activities (antifa reputedly spurned him, wanted to have nothing to do with him, hmm, wonder why…);
…and in general, his “genius” at turning up at all the “right places” at the “right times” TOGETHER WHITH his seemingly miraculous imperviousness to prosecution (or maybe it’s just more “genius” at avoiding it…).
Sound like an interesting sort, doesn’t he?…
In short, the American People are being bamboozled—mightily, horrifically and efficiently bamboozled—by “Biden” and his compatriots in the media, the infotech sector, the DOA and other government agencies.
By “Biden” and his gang of thugs and the huge contingent of “fellow traveler” thug-supporters.
Il Fauci may be in free-fall at the moment. (Maybe. After all, if none of the major networks report on his dissolution, and infotech censors any mention of it, then is he really in free-fall?) May his utter deflation be the “end of the beginning” and the “beginning of the end” of all of these notorious, devious, criminal scoundrels.
File under: Bamboozle Back Better!
Related:
“The FBI wanted list was likely complied by an analysts who didn’t have knowledge of who was an FBI source, source ops are compartmentalized for security. Once Epps drew attention he was likely removed in attempt to conceal his status.”
https://twitter.com/joekent16jan19/status/1481044650198978560
H/T Ron Coleman twitter feed.
My somewhat tangential theory, related to but not the same as saying Epps was a PMC or some flavor of paid informant of some ‘not law enforcement’ TLA, is that Epps has a close personal relationship with someone who is such an informant or agent. Now Epps may or may not be aware of this person’s status but the general public definitely isn’t, and the controlling agency doesn’t want to give it away.
I’m betting partly that’s opsec and protecting the asset but it’s also partly because it suggests based on Epps’s actions that various TLAs had much better intelligence about the Capitol breach than they appear willing to admit, and it might also indicate that they know there was no coordination between the people urging the breach and the Trump campaign or the GOP generally.
So, are the Democrats trying to say there were “fine people” on both sides…
Given all we know about the FBI corruption in the investigations after the TWA explosion and the OK City bombing, the extensive criminality of the Clintons, the close ties of the Obamas to a variety of terrorists, the Clintons’ use of dozens of private contractors to intimidate and silence witnesses to their corruption or scandals, the lifelong corruption of the Bidens, and the extensive web of numerous government agencies, media, and Democrat operatives which perpetrated the Russia Collusion hoax, it would be shocking that the FBI and Capitol Police were not involved in dishonest behavior re: Jan 6.
These people shredded any pretense of honesty or trustworthiness decades ago.
Regarding Epps,
As with so much else, conservative commentators start with a set of empirical facts, and then tend to spin off into the stratosphere with their compounding suspicions and effen scenario mongering “shares”.
The masturbatory scenario mongering vice seems to be one to which conservatives are especially addicted.
It is this latter feature which seems so grotesquely evident in the cases of those logic deficient expert analysts who just cannot seem to leave the obvious facts to stand well enough alone.
No, it is always, “This must have taken place because that probably happened, because we know the feds act this way, and because my fat assed middle aged fedora styling jobless friend with a blog over there who is whoring for Internet clicks, says he heard from some insider that … ”
Yes, there is undeniable evidence that men responsible for incitement, and probably for destruction of property, have been ignored, or overlooked, or missed, while clownish or naive go-alongs have been treated harshly.
So far as the public knows, none of the prime instigators have been exposed for who they are and their stories fully revealed. The authorities seem happy to leave it that way, and we don’t know why that is.
We know the instigators were by some definitions provocateurs; and they were certainly manipulative opportunists on the face of it. But we don’t know in whose cause.
This makes hewing to the known facts all that much more important, along with keeping foremost in one’s mind that a strong case for suspicion and skepticism, is not itself evidence: it is merely reason for distrust. A categorical argument with a negative premiss cannot produce an affirmative conclusion.
Ted Cruz did a fairly good job of asking questions, and was obviously aware he was skating along the edge of a potential rope-a-dope situation, as he was pressing for answers from people who were coyly withholding and volunteering nothing.
He might have done some additional good by asking for semantic clarification as regards the subject’s use of “I can’t …”. Was that a grammatically precise formulation? Was it instead to be possibly understood as “I may not”?
But she might have just been accurately implying that she personally had no information, and was thus being gramatically precise, if terse: and thus potentially, at least, luring a dope to foolishly assume “I have nothing to relate” means ” I am prohibited from revealing… ”
But, even though Cruz did not press for clarification, he seems to be wary enough and smart enough, to not stick his hand into a potential bear trap … Suspecting. or knowing that even his fellow legislators such as Kinzinger, might have – as he did have – undisclosed information which they were holding back for maximum release effect.
Ray Epps is obviously guilty as hell of a moral if not a stautory crime. He needs to be held to account and to pay some price.
Just what his actual motivations were, and who he was in association with is undetermined. Who can get answers? This is where the Democrat party would be hiring investigators.
Like everyone else I am suspicious and amazed that the son of a bitch Epps is walking around free, and that no news outlets are busting down his front door.
But that does not mean we know anything more than that the feds were negligent, some of the crowd gulled, and that instigators who have gone free were responsible.
Click baiting fat boys in fedoras are not going to get us these answers. And we can see that the left has already gamed the moves out in advance.
A previously linked to article on why liberals are in charge of everything is , if slightly overstated , largely instructive in this matter.
Conspiracy theory: What happens when you repeatedly, brazenly withhold information and evidence the public is entitled to know, selectively enforce the law, and repeatedly praise yourself for doing so because you are fair and just and your conduct is strictly in the best interest of the nation/democracy/justice/equity/etc.
Maybe it’s all much ado about nothing but I doubt that very much!
Epps was president of AZ branch of Oath Keepers.
Today the founder of Oath Keepers and about ten associates were arrested for sedition.
And Epps literally disappeared months ago. He may be in the FBI’s “witness protection” program. His photo was deleted from the FBI’s “Can you help us ID these people” in June.
It seems certain Epps was a plant by the FBI all along. While urging others on, he himself never entered the Capitol on Jan 6. Demonstrators around him chanted, “FED! FED!”
The USA has become a police state, it would seem.
“…in charge of everything…”
To the point where they’re EVEN in charge of trying their damnedest to prevent their fellow Democrats, including their “president” and “his” administration, from destroying the country:
“Kyrsten Sinema Nukes Dem Agenda In Blistering Speech”—
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/kyrsten-sinema-nukes-dem-agenda-blistering-speech
…but it’s a damned close thing. And the Democratic party’s lust to destroy hasn’t been completely stopped yet.