Okay, now I’m furious, and there seems to be nothing I can do. My neighbor, a single woman who has worked as a coder for IBM for over 25 years, is going to lose her job as of Dec. 8. She works from home; her colleagues on the job she does are overseas. She had COVID three months ago and recovered after an unpleasant week. She will be fired if she refuses the vaccines, to which she has religious objections. She’s filing for a religious exemption, but we aren’t optimistic.
Kate,
This is blatantly illegal. Some companies are using November 22 (as the President initially proclaimed), and some are using December 8 (as someone seems to have modified it). The Feds have shared the proposed regulations with all government contractors, insisting that they follow them, but have not published them as that will open them to a constitutional challenge before they get everyone fired. Wildly illegal, but they think they can get away with it.
As to your friend, tell her to keep to the process. My company originally claimed full-time remote work and virus testing were not allowed for accommodations, but have since officially backed down at least legally. Each accommodation case is supposedly worked out individually, so nothing prevents them from denying those options to everyone one at a time as if they were independent decisions.
My best estimate is that federal contractors will lose 8-10% of their workforce by 11/23 or 12/9. Most will take the resign option from the resign-or-be-fired ultimatum, so companies can pretend they only fired a small percentage. The hit to the workforce will be substantial, and the companies may be left holding the lawsuit bag when the government claims, “We didn’t actually publish any regulations forcing you to do this.”
Ferraris for lawyers as one friend put it.
Thanks, Frank. She is going through the process of filing a religious exemption. Some conservative non-profit legal foundation will need to file a lawsuit to stop this. IBM does some government contract work, which is the “hook” being used to force this policy. I recently drove her in my car to a medical appointment that required a driver for her. She’s the one neighbor I can safely sit in a closed vehicle with because SHE’S HAD THE VIRUS AND WON’T GIVE IT TO ME.
Kate–
Has your friend contacted the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty? If she hasn’t, the contact info. is here:
I hope all goes as well as possible for both you and your friend.
“We [Biden admin.] didn’t actually publish any regulations forcing you to do this.”
That’s just unbelievable. I presume the logical progression of the tactic would be: We issue a verbal threat (vax or lose fed. funding); those failing to comply lose fed. funding; then those who have lost fed. funding can’t sue because they can’t prove why they lost fed. funding?
On the other hand, recall that under Trump court cases were decided based on off-hand campaign comments Trump made. So surely official comments by President Biden are actionable in a court of law. No wait, … I forgot we have a double standards justice system now.
Thanks, PA Cat. Have sent her the link. Someone needs to sue over these mandates, and IBM is a big fat target.
Kate–
You’re certainly welcome. I hope the Becket Fund can help your friend– and I agree that IBM is a target of size (mustn’t fat-shame anyone these days).
With respect to “We [Biden admin.] didn’t actually publish any regulations forcing you to do this,” I think, with IBM, that this is by Executive Order, which Biden has issued to all federal employees and federal contractors.
Kate, the executive order was to create regulations to that effect. By itself it does not have the force of law. I’ve heard (can’t confirm) that the Biden admin has no intention of publishing for at least 4 months (and perhaps never), but they have told all government contractors that they have until 11/22 or 12/8 to get rid of non-compliant workers. Since the required date to get the vaccine is 10/18 (for the 2 shot vaccines) or 11/8 for the J&J vaccine, a lawyer could argue that, if the regulations are not actually published by those dates, then the Feds have created a de-facto rather than a de-jure regulation. It’s very clever, any company that refuses to comply is free from penalty (but open to being harassed in other ways) from non-existent regulations. Any company that does comply faces torts on their own. [I am not a lawyer, though I just threw around a bunch of legal terms, and I may not understand their nuance.]
Frank, I think there are two orders in question. One, the executive order directed at federal employees and contractors, has already been issued. The more recent one, in Biden’s speech, was a directive to OSHA to come up with an “emergency” order covering all other employers with 100 or more employees. That one is still in the works.
Another friend points out that my neighbor works online with people who live in India and some other locations, and she wonders how IBM can enforce this order there, which raises the question of whether IBM will discriminate against US workers.
I have just this month resumed working as a geologist subcontractor to a prime at a large federal facility. I’ve been vaccinated since February so I’m probably not affected but the word for all employees is show proof of vaccination or you will be fired 12/8/21. I expect the unions at the site will fight this and essentially shut down the projects that rely on them. My prior employer has been worried about the WA state Labor and Industries fines for non compliance with King Jay’s many edicts, but we flew maskless (if you wanted) under the radar through nearly all of this WuFlu circus. And yes a few of the workers had the WuFlu and had to stay home for a while.
@ Wesson > “Writer urges Trump to use an alternative program, instead of trying to force Twitter to restore his account.”
I agree that the writer makes a lot of valid points, however, Trump is in a win-win situation that should be played out:
If Twitter caves, or is ordered to restore his account by the courts, he wins outright – and then can leave them on his own terms, if he wishes and for the reasons the writer suggests.
If Twitter does not give in, or the courts don’t force it to, he wins because of now having a yuge example (to add to the others) of how biased the social media and courts are; THEN he picks a new platform.
That will NOT be framed by Trump as a loss, although Democrats will pounce.
@ Anonymous > “Hope the windfarms or solar panels work this winter. What could conceivably go agley?”
Bracing for the Texas Snowmageddon 2.0 —
We have alternative energy sources for a brief spell, but I only know one family that relies solely on their wood furnace for heat.
It can get cold in Colorado.
Maybe axing the XL pipeline was not such a good idea.
“…Anthropologist Richard Shweder of the University of Chicago has just published a detailed analysis of the Tuskegee study in which he shows that virtually every popular assumption about it is false. (Tuskegee re-examined, January 8, 2004)
The study was undertaken by “progressives” who wanted to fight a disease that afflicted many blacks, it had the full support of black medical authorities to the end, and — most important — it probably caused no harm to the 140 men (not 400) who took part.
The U.S. Public Health Service started the study in 1932 in Macon County, Alabama, where syphilis rates for blacks ranged between 20 and 36 percent….”
In other news, Menstruating Person of Indeterminate Genetic Heritage Independently Discovers the Institution of Marriage:
“How can a person “fight back” especially if they don’t have a large legal fund?”
I urge everyone who donates to political candidates to instead contribute to conservative lawfare groups.
Examples include
Center for American Liberty
Pacific Legal Foundation
Judicial Watch
Election Integrity Project
True The Vote
tax deductible too
Zaphod @ 10:36pm,
I honestly don’t understand that screenshot. Is she not aware of what child support is? Or that most state courts garnish “deadbeat dads'” wages?
Does she believe she invented that concept?
@Rufus:
She’s just daydreaming about being swept off her feet by a blonde Nordic Beast and raising his babies in a cozy cabin by the shores of a fjord. Not quite what the Victorians had in mind when they spoke of Runed (sic) Women.
More seriously, my description was just my twisted sense of humor. I mean it’s kind of ironic that these Cultural Critics (hehe) having burned down traditional civilization need to legislate back the aspects of Tradition which suit them. Ioffe’s tweet was just saying that she wants men to pay for women to keep their children and not slaughter them. Mighty big of her. As you point out, that’s a given anyway.
Thanks for the correction Kate. Hard to track down good information. Yes, it’s the OSHA one that’s being held back. I’ll have to take a closer look at the federal worker & contractor one.
This issue is being deliberately obfuscated by Biden, et al, but AFAICT the best advice seems to be DON’T QUIT! Make them fire you. It will secure the right to sue down the road, which quitting will forfeit.
Thanks for the clarification. I guess it was difficult for me to believe she could be that dense.
And does that she honestly believe it would be a huge, lightbulb moment to point that out to any man who is pro-life? Sad she’s so deprived of an upright male’s viewpoint that she can’t comprehend how they think.
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There are more and more signs there could be serious shortages of energy and consumer goods (including groceries) this winter.
Here are the stories: http://www.mikesmithenterprisesblog.com/2021/10/are-we-being-deliberately-set-up-for.html
— and —
http://www.mikesmithenterprisesblog.com/2021/10/more-are-sounding-alarm-about-winter.html
Forewarned is forearmed.
Okay, now I’m furious, and there seems to be nothing I can do. My neighbor, a single woman who has worked as a coder for IBM for over 25 years, is going to lose her job as of Dec. 8. She works from home; her colleagues on the job she does are overseas. She had COVID three months ago and recovered after an unpleasant week. She will be fired if she refuses the vaccines, to which she has religious objections. She’s filing for a religious exemption, but we aren’t optimistic.
Kate,
This is blatantly illegal. Some companies are using November 22 (as the President initially proclaimed), and some are using December 8 (as someone seems to have modified it). The Feds have shared the proposed regulations with all government contractors, insisting that they follow them, but have not published them as that will open them to a constitutional challenge before they get everyone fired. Wildly illegal, but they think they can get away with it.
As to your friend, tell her to keep to the process. My company originally claimed full-time remote work and virus testing were not allowed for accommodations, but have since officially backed down at least legally. Each accommodation case is supposedly worked out individually, so nothing prevents them from denying those options to everyone one at a time as if they were independent decisions.
My best estimate is that federal contractors will lose 8-10% of their workforce by 11/23 or 12/9. Most will take the resign option from the resign-or-be-fired ultimatum, so companies can pretend they only fired a small percentage. The hit to the workforce will be substantial, and the companies may be left holding the lawsuit bag when the government claims, “We didn’t actually publish any regulations forcing you to do this.”
Ferraris for lawyers as one friend put it.
Thanks, Frank. She is going through the process of filing a religious exemption. Some conservative non-profit legal foundation will need to file a lawsuit to stop this. IBM does some government contract work, which is the “hook” being used to force this policy. I recently drove her in my car to a medical appointment that required a driver for her. She’s the one neighbor I can safely sit in a closed vehicle with because SHE’S HAD THE VIRUS AND WON’T GIVE IT TO ME.
Kate–
Has your friend contacted the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty? If she hasn’t, the contact info. is here:
https://www.becketlaw.org/contact/general-contact/
I hope all goes as well as possible for both you and your friend.
“We [Biden admin.] didn’t actually publish any regulations forcing you to do this.”
That’s just unbelievable. I presume the logical progression of the tactic would be: We issue a verbal threat (vax or lose fed. funding); those failing to comply lose fed. funding; then those who have lost fed. funding can’t sue because they can’t prove why they lost fed. funding?
On the other hand, recall that under Trump court cases were decided based on off-hand campaign comments Trump made. So surely official comments by President Biden are actionable in a court of law. No wait, … I forgot we have a double standards justice system now.
Thanks, PA Cat. Have sent her the link. Someone needs to sue over these mandates, and IBM is a big fat target.
Kate–
You’re certainly welcome. I hope the Becket Fund can help your friend– and I agree that IBM is a target of size (mustn’t fat-shame anyone these days).
With respect to “We [Biden admin.] didn’t actually publish any regulations forcing you to do this,” I think, with IBM, that this is by Executive Order, which Biden has issued to all federal employees and federal contractors.
Kate, the executive order was to create regulations to that effect. By itself it does not have the force of law. I’ve heard (can’t confirm) that the Biden admin has no intention of publishing for at least 4 months (and perhaps never), but they have told all government contractors that they have until 11/22 or 12/8 to get rid of non-compliant workers. Since the required date to get the vaccine is 10/18 (for the 2 shot vaccines) or 11/8 for the J&J vaccine, a lawyer could argue that, if the regulations are not actually published by those dates, then the Feds have created a de-facto rather than a de-jure regulation. It’s very clever, any company that refuses to comply is free from penalty (but open to being harassed in other ways) from non-existent regulations. Any company that does comply faces torts on their own. [I am not a lawyer, though I just threw around a bunch of legal terms, and I may not understand their nuance.]
Frank, I think there are two orders in question. One, the executive order directed at federal employees and contractors, has already been issued. The more recent one, in Biden’s speech, was a directive to OSHA to come up with an “emergency” order covering all other employers with 100 or more employees. That one is still in the works.
Another friend points out that my neighbor works online with people who live in India and some other locations, and she wonders how IBM can enforce this order there, which raises the question of whether IBM will discriminate against US workers.
I have just this month resumed working as a geologist subcontractor to a prime at a large federal facility. I’ve been vaccinated since February so I’m probably not affected but the word for all employees is show proof of vaccination or you will be fired 12/8/21. I expect the unions at the site will fight this and essentially shut down the projects that rely on them. My prior employer has been worried about the WA state Labor and Industries fines for non compliance with King Jay’s many edicts, but we flew maskless (if you wanted) under the radar through nearly all of this WuFlu circus. And yes a few of the workers had the WuFlu and had to stay home for a while.
On a different topic:
https://www.rigzone.com/news/wire/energy_crisis_threatens_to_hit_usa_grids-8-oct-2021-166663-article/?utm_campaign=DAILY_2021_10_08&utm_source=GLOBAL_ENG&utm_medium=EM_NW_F2
Hope the windfarms or solar panels work this winter. What could conceivably go agley?
Anonymous,
I love your tribute to Burns with the adverb, “agley.” I will steal that and use it often!
Frank
“Ferraris for lawyers as one friend put it.”
How can a person “fight back” especially if they don’t have a large legal fund? Like Kate’s friend, resistance requires immediate legal assistance.
Writer urges Trump to use an alternative program, instead of trying to force Twitter to restore his account.
https://redstate.com/robert_a_hahn/2021/10/05/mr-president-enough-with-the-twitter-n452233
@ Wesson > “Writer urges Trump to use an alternative program, instead of trying to force Twitter to restore his account.”
I agree that the writer makes a lot of valid points, however, Trump is in a win-win situation that should be played out:
If Twitter caves, or is ordered to restore his account by the courts, he wins outright – and then can leave them on his own terms, if he wishes and for the reasons the writer suggests.
If Twitter does not give in, or the courts don’t force it to, he wins because of now having a yuge example (to add to the others) of how biased the social media and courts are; THEN he picks a new platform.
That will NOT be framed by Trump as a loss, although Democrats will pounce.
@ Anonymous > “Hope the windfarms or solar panels work this winter. What could conceivably go agley?”
Bracing for the Texas Snowmageddon 2.0 —
We have alternative energy sources for a brief spell, but I only know one family that relies solely on their wood furnace for heat.
It can get cold in Colorado.
Maybe axing the XL pipeline was not such a good idea.
Let’s go, Biden!
Tuskegee Nuances:
https://www.amren.com/news/2009/03/the_truth_about_5/
“…Anthropologist Richard Shweder of the University of Chicago has just published a detailed analysis of the Tuskegee study in which he shows that virtually every popular assumption about it is false. (Tuskegee re-examined, January 8, 2004)
The study was undertaken by “progressives” who wanted to fight a disease that afflicted many blacks, it had the full support of black medical authorities to the end, and — most important — it probably caused no harm to the 140 men (not 400) who took part.
The U.S. Public Health Service started the study in 1932 in Macon County, Alabama, where syphilis rates for blacks ranged between 20 and 36 percent….”
In other news, Menstruating Person of Indeterminate Genetic Heritage Independently Discovers the Institution of Marriage:
https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/087/151/612/original/7b144a1cd417bd49.jpeg
“How can a person “fight back” especially if they don’t have a large legal fund?”
I urge everyone who donates to political candidates to instead contribute to conservative lawfare groups.
Examples include
Center for American Liberty
Pacific Legal Foundation
Judicial Watch
Election Integrity Project
True The Vote
tax deductible too
Zaphod @ 10:36pm,
I honestly don’t understand that screenshot. Is she not aware of what child support is? Or that most state courts garnish “deadbeat dads'” wages?
Does she believe she invented that concept?
@Rufus:
She’s just daydreaming about being swept off her feet by a blonde Nordic Beast and raising his babies in a cozy cabin by the shores of a fjord. Not quite what the Victorians had in mind when they spoke of Runed (sic) Women.
More seriously, my description was just my twisted sense of humor. I mean it’s kind of ironic that these Cultural Critics (hehe) having burned down traditional civilization need to legislate back the aspects of Tradition which suit them. Ioffe’s tweet was just saying that she wants men to pay for women to keep their children and not slaughter them. Mighty big of her. As you point out, that’s a given anyway.
Thanks for the correction Kate. Hard to track down good information. Yes, it’s the OSHA one that’s being held back. I’ll have to take a closer look at the federal worker & contractor one.
This issue is being deliberately obfuscated by Biden, et al, but AFAICT the best advice seems to be DON’T QUIT! Make them fire you. It will secure the right to sue down the road, which quitting will forfeit.
COVID: Insitutionalized, criminal mismanagement.
The whole sleazy rundown.
https://im1776.com/2021/10/08/corporate-medicine/
Zaphod,
Thanks for the clarification. I guess it was difficult for me to believe she could be that dense.
And does that she honestly believe it would be a huge, lightbulb moment to point that out to any man who is pro-life? Sad she’s so deprived of an upright male’s viewpoint that she can’t comprehend how they think.