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Home » COVID overview Part I: trying to make sense of the whole “masks for the vaccinated” thing

COVID overview Part I: trying to make sense of the whole “masks for the vaccinated” thing

The New Neo Posted on by

[NOTE: This is the first part of a planned 2-parter.]

First of all, we have the politics of the COVID response:

(1) Authorities like to be authoritarian and order people around. So there is psychological satisfaction from it.

(2) It gets the population used to taking orders from authorities, which is also useful – for the authorities.

(3) COVID-fear has been very good to the Democrats in the political sense, and they want that to continue. In particular, they are hoping to use it to justify the same sort of looser rules on voting protocols that helped them win in 2020.

(4) It has the potential to further the divisions and hatred in the country, which I believe the left sees as a plus.

But what of the logic behind these newer restrictions, in the non-political sense? You may think there is no such logic, but I don’t agree. It may be a logic that’s hard to follow, and like me you may disagree with some of the reasoning behind it. But a logic is there, and I’ll take a stab at a list of its basic premises:

(1) People should get vaccinated because vaccination is highly protective against COVID.

(2) But even vaccination is only 90 to 95 percent protective, and we don’t know for how long.

(3) That means that some vaccinated people will inevitably be getting COVID. As the vaccination rate increases (and it’s already fairly high now), the number of vaccinated people getting COVID will increase, or at least the percentage of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people getting COVID or merely testing positive for COVID will increase.

(4) Many of these vaccinated people testing positive will be asymptomatic.

(5) There is beginning to be some evidence that with the Delta variant – although not the previous variants – some unvaccinated-but-COVID-positive people (with or without symptoms) are shedding a lot of virus. That evidence is far from clear, but it concerns us because it means that vaccinated people may have COVID and not know it and might be contagious to others, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

(6) Masking indoors offers at least some protection against the transmission of COVID.

(7) Therefore asking vaccinated people to mask indoors makes sense.

There are many points along the way where you might disagree with the premise or premises and think the authorities are either lying or mistaken or both. But I think I’ve correctly stated the reasoning of many of the people who support this and who are not merely political operatives using COVID for political reasons.

But there are other underlying issues in the COVID response debate that aren’t just political, although they definitely impact on politics. They are deeper, broader, and more philosophical, and they have to do with liberty and risk. Liberty involves risk, but even without liberty there is no way to eliminate risk. The basic question is how far one is willing to go to reduce risk – or for the illusion of reducing risk – and who is allowed to make the decision, the individual or the state, and under what conditions.

That will be discussed in Part II.

[ADDENDUM: I want to reiterate – in case there is any misunderstanding – that these are not my premises. I am trying to explain the premises under which some people are operating. The first list contains the premises of the political activists who are into the politics of it, and the second list contains the premises of some people who are more sincere and less political about it (such as many of my friends).]

Comments

COVID overview Part I: trying to make sense of the whole “masks for the vaccinated” thing — 76 Comments

  1. If you believe this then we will all need to live the “bubble boy” life, masks will not be enough.

    “NEW ORLEANS MAYOR’S MEDICAL ADVISOR ON COVID: ‘She added it is also more dangerous than smallpox and polio.’ ”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/464955/

    I am vaccinated, J&J, my choice. I know there is still some risk of getting COVID but that risk is low enough and the risk of it being really bad is so much lower that I, age 73, am not masked and only taking reasonable precautions that I would take to help avoid any respiratory disease like colds or flu, washing hands and not getting up close and personal in crowds of strangers. If I was 30-40 years younger even that wouldn’t seem too necessary.

  2. 6) is the problem. There is very little concrete evidence that masks (especially cloth masks) provide any substantial protection.

    You said ‘some protection’ and that is such a weaselly standard it’s hard to argue with. But is ‘some’ 1%, 5%?

    Also if this magical ‘some’ exists why has it never been recommended on a wide scale before (yeah, yeah I know Asia but we aren’t Asia)? Don’t give me the Covid is the worse thing ever even worse than small pox or polio like some of these clowns are now pushing.

    The mask is an identifier and not much more.

  3. But even if one is charitable and goes with your second list the messaging is insanely bad. It’s hard to imagine a worse strategy get hesitant people to get the vaccine than what they are doing now. They clearly oversold the vaccine and that was problem number one and that has only reinforced people’s views on this issue.

    I mean there was some Biden Covid task force guy named Ben something out there fighting back against the NYT and WaPo on the story that his own people leaked to them. And he was using ALL CAPS so he was super mad. Idiots.

  4. I want to reiterate – in case there is any misunderstanding – that these are not MY premises. I am trying to explain the premises under which some people are operating. The first list contains the premises of the political activists who are into the politics of it, and the second list contains the premises of some people who are more sincere and less political about it (such as many of my friends).

  5. Fabric masks are useless against COVID transmission.

    Let’s do our homework, people, instead of being ordered around by the CDC and Fraudulent Fauci.

  6. neo,

    Yep, I got that I wasn’t being confrontational with you just at some of these points that as you correctly illustrate are used by a huge amount of people.

  7. Cicero,

    Of course, the funny thing is this was exactly what Fauci used to say prior to 3/20.

  8. The correct measure of Covid is how many are dying of it, what are their ages, what are the underlying conditions, and how many people have died of other causes at the same time? Looked at it this the way entire pandemic is a nothing burger.

  9. I don’t understand why no one talks about therapeutics: I realize that this is more important for doctors than lay people to discuss, but at least people should know that people are working on treatments if you get a positive test. The way it is handled now is for the media to give half-baked info about everything to increase panic and viewership.
    Cicero, most people don’t have the time to do all the research, but I think they have figured out that Fauci is a lying a**hole.

  10. OMT: my sister-in-law works for a large chain at the local mall. It seems to me that many of their decisions are made to avoid possible lawsuits.

  11. What I see is that the Biden people have driven into a political cul de sac. The vaccines were over-sold as a way to eliminate COVID altogether- people were told that if they got the vaccine, no more masks, no more distancing, and no more COVID. I warned last year on various forums that COVID would never disappear, that it would become endemic even if we developed vaccines and got everyone to take one. Viruses like influenza, coronaviruses, and all of the other common respiratory viruses just mutate way too fast to eliminate.

    What I think is happening the last week is that the CDC is learning that the vaccinated are getting infected, are spreading the virus around to each other, are increasingly getting ill with it, and are starting to die in numbers proportional to what is being seen with people who have not been vaccinated and are catching the Delta variant. The good news is that the CFR is much, much lower today than a year ago for everyone, vaccinated or unvaccinated. This Winter will be the real test of the vaccines and the treatment protocols, though- there will be new variants, and the present vaccines will fail at an increasing rate to prevent infections and illness. Hopefully, though, the rate of death from it will remain very low at today’s rates.

    Althouse put up a post today about the Biden team’s complaints about the coverage in the NYTimes, WaPo, and CNN, and she claims the coverage is awful, but offerred no explanation as to what she meant. I exactually read all the coverage, and all of it sourced directly from the people in the Administration, and they more or less factually report the data and the recommendations from the CDC, so how is the coverage awful? I, of course, think the panic is way overblown, but I have always felt that way about this topic, but I don’t see how the Biden people can be complaining about their own damned data and suggestions.

    At some point, I think the Biden people will pull the plug on, or attempt to, the COVID testing regime, but that can’t be done just yet. I think it is something that should have been done about a year ago, but the Democrats are stuck with it for now.

  12. Yancey Ward,

    Stop testing people without symptoms. At least on an industrial scale and magically this entire thing is much clearer. The number of young, healthy athletes that have been sidelined for positive tests with no symptoms is ridiculous and should be an obvious sign that we are doing this all wrong. Weren’t a bunch of the P-Town positives asymptomatic also?

    I’ve said it before but can you imagine if we had been testing for the flu or some other respiratory illness at these levels what we would have found over the years?

  13. expat – I saw a comment today (??where) that described the C19 vaccines as really being therapeutic treatment and not a true vaccine that will prevent infection. Interesting thought…

    Check out this website https://covid19criticalcare.com/ for a variety of info on treatments (preventive, early stage, hospital care). The treatments do change from time to time, so a monthly check of the site is good. One new treatment was using steam/spray/gargle of the nose and throat during early signs of infection, presumably to get rid of active viruses before they move around.

    My doctor told me early on that the only effective mask was a N95 one and with proper procedures to use/remove/sanitize. The use of a cloth mask is for show, though it may filter out some larger items, like dust and allergens. I’m still saving the flannel ones for use during bad winter weather.

  14. Neo, in my opinion you have correctly stated the assumptions of the not-merely-political COVID restriction believers. Their view is based on the eliminationist idea; their view is not only that people shouldn’t die of COVID, but that they should never get it at all. I think the past year of extreme restrictions, and the failure of those restrictions, has demonstrated that this is an unreasonable goal.

    I think there are some other points in their thinking which are not supported by facts.

  16. To vax or not, to mask or not, it matters only to the controllers, and we all know who they are. The only important thing to them is that they control our lives. Using COVID lockdowns and restrictions, they stole one election. And we are now supposed to be worried about the delta variant, but did you notice that Walensky on Fox the other night hinted that there will be more “variants” coming down the pike? I predict, although I surely don’t wish to, that the variants will keep coming right up until November 2022, when our votes will once again be stolen because of COVID variant X, Y, or whatever the sequence will be by then. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  19. I’m watching a show from 2018, “Counterpart,” a sci-fi series in which our Earth has developed a twin Earth in a different universe and there is communication between the two.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpart_(TV_series)

    The interesting bit is that one Earth, though not the other, was hit by a terrible pandemic. So one happens to see a television commercial on that Earth about health which shows a group of children playing joyously. One has a coughing fit. All the other children stop play, then back slowly away and put on their medical masks. The final caption:
    ___________________________

    Personal health is public health.
    ___________________________

    Not bad for future prediction from 2018!

    BTW J.K. Simmons is tremendous in it. I’m also watching it for Olivia Williams.

  20. We know the masks are ineffective. They know the masks are ineffective. The purpose of requiring masks is that it is visual confirmation that there’s something baaad to fear.

    Mandatory masks and insisting on vaccination are all about instilling unreasoning fear in the public. Proof is the officials railing most about it are so often caught violating their own dictates.

    The old “do as I say, not as I do”…

    The message being conveyed is that no one is really safe from the medical bogeyman. That maybe you’ll get safely through your turn at this medical version of russian roulette but someone’s going to get the bullet.

    Lastly, if the vaccine is so effective, (even against the Delta variant) then what skin off the back of those who are vaccinated, if the unvaccinated fall to the virus? If we unvaccinated are willing to risk the potential consequence(s) what harm does that pose to the vaccinated?

  21. huxley,

    I loved ‘Counterpart’ especially the first season. Interesting take on how life’s events can lead a man to be meek and mild or aggressive and hard. I was bummed when it got cancelled after a second season.

    I had forgotten about the pandemic on the other side. I probably wouldn’t watch it now as I have avoided any show or movie that touches on anything about outbreaks or lockdowns like the proverbial plague. See enough of that in the real world.

  22. Griffin:

    I’m enjoying “Counterpart” too. I was curious why it got cancelled — it was getting excellent reviews — so I looked it up:
    ______________________________________

    Starz opted not to pick up J.K. Simmons-fronted drama Counterpart for a third season after the February finale of season two.

    Starz COO Jeffrey Hirsch addressed the cancellation at the TCA summer press tour and admitted that the show’s audience was “too male” to fit into its new female-focused strategy.

    “Counterpart was a great show, we had great partners in MRC and Justin is a great writer, but it was a very complicated show, a very male show. We had picked that show up and made a two season commitment before we’d honed in on this premium female strategy,” he said.

    “When you look at bringing shows back, it really has to serve that core premium female audience and if it doesn’t we have to find something else,” Hirsch added. “If it doesn’t serve our core strategy, we’re just not going to do it.”

    –https://deadline.com/2019/07/counterpart-starz-cancellation-1202655113/
    ______________________________________

    Good thing “Band of Brothers” was made 20 years ago.

    I find this war on male fans (see current “Star Wars”) pretty obnoxious.

  23. Let’s also address why some people are reluctant to vaccinate: The mRNA vaccine is NOT like the vaccine we have grown used to.

    The ones we’re most familiar with are the attenuated and inactivated. Those have been tried and true. The mRNA is new. Well, new-ish. They’ve been working on some sort of mRNA vaccine for about thirty years, and this is the first “successful” one. But it had a severely shortened testing period: Emergency Use Authorization. The vaccine cheerleaders all compare it to the roll out of the polio vaccine — but that took over five years, and had over twenty years of research before then. That was an inactivated vaccine, a technology that had been around and used to successfully develop other vaccines for decades before the polio vaccine.

    According to Wikipedia, “Before 2020, no mRNA technology platform (drug or vaccine) had been authorized for use in humans.”

    For something that has thirty years of research behind it, that does NOT instill me with confidence.

    Now, I usually say that FDA approval process is insanely long and expensive. It is. And litigation has killed of potentially helpful vaccines, treatments, and medications. But this was developed crazy fast with not enough time for testing. And the government took away our chance to sue if there are issues with this. (Look up the Cutter incidence with the polio vaccine.)

    I don’t blame people who are reluctant to get vaccinated. Especially since potentially effective treatment is essentially banned in the US.

  24. Lee Also, yes, I got the mRNA because of my age. I wish they’d hurry up with approval of the Novavax shot. I know people who’d take that, having declined the mRNA.

  25. Neo: great mapping of the logic that has led us to this pretty pass. Thanks also for your excellent parsing yesterday of the Cape Cod event which CDC claims as justification for its latest ukase. Here I want only to note that the size of virus particles relative to the size of the pores in a surgical mask is not even close. It’s like throwing sand at a chain link fence. The protection must be a function of multiple parameters such as proximity, airflow, duration of exposure, humidity, and a whole lot of s*** luck. None of which has been established with much if any confidence. But, sure, mask up: wouldn’t want to be identified as a troublemaker.

  26. huxley,

    If I remember correctly they filmed the first season in Berlin and then the second in LA at the request of Simmons and to cut costs and make it more palatable for renewal but it didn’t work.

    Some of the stuff that they target to men now just do nothing for me. I like shows like ‘Counterpoint’ and ‘Fringe’ which was one of the best sci fi shows ever. I like complex shows. Another one along this line is the German show ‘Dark’ which is an amazing show. It’s on Netflix.

  27. Owen,

    One of the truly amazing things about all this is how after a year and a half of this crap we continue to see such non sense as obsessively wiping things down, plastic shields and face masks.

    Still hear people say ‘oh yeah if masks don’t work why do surgeons where them?’

    Sigh.

  28. Let’s also address why some people are reluctant to vaccinate: The mRNA vaccine is NOT like the vaccine we have grown used to.

    Lee Also:

    I got the Johnson & Johnson because it was not the cutting-edge mRNA, but old-school attenuated virus. (I did like the “one and done” aspect as well.)

    That was two months ago. So far, so good.

  29. We know the masks are ineffective. They know the masks are ineffective. The purpose of requiring masks is that it is visual confirmation that there’s something baaad to fear. — Geoffrey Britain

    That’s a terrific theory, and I’d guess it is at a least moderately accurate motive. Everywhere you go, there it is in your face. Other people wearing masks. It’s the most omnipresent advertising. It is sort of like the subliminal messaging “Obey!” spread around everywhere in the film “They Live.”

    I liked the theory that masking is a divisive wedge issue. It clearly is that, but it is somewhat unclear to me how the mechanics of that help Dems win elections. I think it certainly helps open the wallets for campaign funding.

  30. I am trying to explain the premises under which some people are operating.

    Yes, but they are also calling it “science,” when it is only logic. “If A then B” may be logically correct, but science means ascertaining whether A is true (or, more precisely, not falsified by evidence). If you won’t look at the evidence, or there is none, then you’re not doing science. The mask and social distancing advocates are deliberately not looking at evidence, and in fact suppressing any discussion of it. The logic is just an excuse for social control and political ends.

    And even if the premises were all true, the suppression of alternative approaches such as effective treatments like ivermectin, which would completely flip the risk-benefit calculation, is just further evidence that it’s all about politics and power.

  31. “this was developed crazy fast with not enough time for testing.” Lee Also

    2 days after the Chinese released the makeup of the Covid-19 virus… Moderna annouced it had a vaccine ready for clinical trials. That vaccine purportedly created in 2 days is the one released for ’emergency’ use. Sorry folks but that does not pass the smell test.

  32. @GB:

    I am pretty damn paranoid. But not that paranoid. As discussed before, good chunk of Big Pharma today is computational. No big deal to me that they could (given viral genome files) grind out a vaccine (at the end would just be a list of tweaks for combining a bunch of building blocks they already had lined up for synthesising all their other high-end drugs) in a day or two and publish and patent.

    Figuring out how to manufacture it at S C A L E took longer… but again most of the hurdles in this game today are regulatory and ethical need to try to dodge another Thalidomide Scandal. Whip up some hysteria and Warp Speed, Baby!

    What I *could* imagine is hedge fund guys taking strategic positions in Big Pharma and funding or otherwise promoting gain of function research in leaky Chinese and Indian labs.

  33. Ditto expat and Kate on top.

    Therapeutics like high Vitamin D, HCQ, Ivermectin. Who needs the Trump Vax? You don’t.

    Yes, neo has the “reasoning” behind the paranoid. But 5here are serious alternatives. Search those named and John Campbell or Drbeen or Hansen or Schuelt of MedCram, all on YouTube.

    Tell your paranoid friends: educate to liberate yourselves.

    Free your mind and free your body.

  34. About masks. Clear air flow is much much better. Just hold meetings or dinners outdoors.

    Problem for 5he paranoid solved.

  36. At this point everybody has more than enough information to allow them to make their own choices. Want to wear a mask fine, want a vaccine fine, want to take Ivermectin, zinc whatever fine.

    But it is the mandates of all kinds that are flat out evil.

    They are now going to mess with a third school year for kids. Beyond the educational damage think of the emotional warping of children that has gone on. From living in fear of anyone without a mask to the loss of any understanding of risk this stuff will last a long, long time.

  37. TJ,
    What makes you certain that the “ paranoid” will not be insisting on OUTSIDE masking again, before long?
    Having said that, I still try to give people wider birth even outside.
    But then I have always been a germ-a-phobe.
    If I was in the leftwing cultural and media bubble, I might be one of the paranoid, by this point.

  38. They are now going to mess with a third school year for kids. Beyond the educational damage think of the emotional warping of children that has gone on. From living in fear of anyone without a mask to the loss of any understanding of risk this stuff will last a long, long time.

    Griffin:

    If not evil, then cruel or criminal. This really makes my blood boil.

    I’ll bet they are going to be an interesting generation. Maybe they will be called the Covids. It seems they will either by cowed or ferociously angry.

  39. One thing that makes me think they won’t do large scale lock downs is because so many things are coming back at full capacity. NFL and college football are going full capacity, indoor concerts are selling tickets at full capacity and into the winter NBA and NHL are selling tickets at full capacity.

    This means if they lockdown they will have to go to zero attendance because how would you ever decide who gets to go if it’s 50% or 25% full?

    The blowback from this would be immense in my opinion.

    It’s like Yancey Ward said above they have driven into a political cul de sac. How do they get out?

  40. It’s like Yancey Ward said above they have driven into a political cul de sac. How do they get out?

    Griffin:

    That’s the thing. I credit them with luck, perseverance and ruthlessness, but they are not as smart as they think and the only gear on their car is “Double Down.”

    It’s worked surprisingly well … so far.

  41. There have been a few stories today about the Biden administration being angry at the media coverage of their leaked rationale for the mask mandate. Their messaging is so all over the place that they have totally lost the plot.

    A cynic would say this is what happens when you elect a dementia suffering, nothing as president.

  42. If they had any intellectual honesty the way out for the Biden administration is to shift the focus to the fact that cases are not the important metric anymore instead the fact that they have been totally disconnected from hospitalizations and deaths is a very good thing.

    That is the way out. If they want one.

  43. Griffin:

    One of the problems with that would be that they want to try to scare unvaccinated people into getting vaccinated, and to do that they have to talk about cases going up.

  45. I don’t see a re-masking, and another lockdown – at least, not in Texas. Most people have been fed to their back teeth with more than a year of it.
    Interesting indicator of returning normality: samples at Costco, after a year of fearing contamination. Yes, the free samples are back. And at the HEB as well.

  47. Very busy yesterday packing the house up, so late to this discussion. However, came across a great article this morning in, where else, the Daily Mail. I’ve known for several months, since Florida stopped its daily reporting, that it now only reports once a week. The DM article is great it that it puts into context the “horrifying” increase in “1 day” cases from Florida yesterday. That increase was actually for the entire week. The DM is the ONLY place, including Fox and Newsmax, to report what actually happened. They then follow with a number of graphs showing the decoupling of cases and deaths for a number of states.

    How many will actually see and read this DM article?? The panic is going to increase worse than last year. I predict we will be locked down again by the end of next week. I’m very worried that our scheduled move to Florida will be in jeopardy.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9847285/Florida-Delaware-skew-Delta-death-figures-massive-data-dump-taking-total-300-day.html

  48. You put it so nicely!

    “First of all, we have the politics of the COVID response:

    (1) Authorities like to be authoritarian and order people around. So there is psychological satisfaction from it.”

    Recently reconnected with a classmate and drinking buddy (high school class of 1970). Nobody we knew signed up for the service. He became an assistant state attorney general, so authorities. Was a major harasser of $10/hr retail workers that didn’t throw out the improperly masked during the height of the emergency.

    Now he’s holding forth about how “we need a draft” and “I would have been a Marine!”

    Yeah, sure.

    Authorities didn’t serve, but 50 years later want to dress up in dad’s WW2 uniform and play hero.

    Phooey.

  49. Crappy @ August 1 at 9:36: “… Authorities didn’t serve, but 50 years later want to dress up in dad’s WW2 uniform and play hero.”

    Excellent point about the psychology/sociology of authoritarians. Lots of psychic compensation going on in them. Maybe our adulation of Greatest Generation (with “Honor Flights” for aging survivors of the Bulge, WW2 memorial on the Mall, media productions like “Band of Brothers” etc) has backfired.

  50. Fauci and the other idiots are doing the Sunday morning shows and are pretty much all saying no more lockdowns for whatever that is worth.

    There is obviously a real understanding that lockdowns are a no go.

    Of course they could all be saying the exact opposite by tomorrow.

  51. If biden admin truly believes the vaccine is 100% safe then just pass a legislation that will pay out a compensation of 5 million usd to each case of vaccine caused injury, simply isn’t it. If they refuse to do so then it is not only us who are vaccine skeptics but so are they.

  53. I told neo that if she did not want to let conspiracy talk be unrestricted, i will do something.

    Ironic that people now have to think about waxes.

    Fauci was the truth but doctors during dpanish flu were not wrong….

  54. Bet you can’t make yourself disappear though!

    There’s enough theological meat in that thought to start a decent-sized hippodrome riot.

  57. Owen wrote: Here I want only to note that the size of virus particles relative to the size of the pores in a surgical mask is not even close. It’s like throwing sand at a chain link fence.

    Which has virtually nothing to do with the effectiveness of masks to reduce the spread of Covid-19. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is not aerosolized. It resides in respiratory droplets, of which masks do a decent but not perfect job of reducing the spread.

    huxley wrote: I got the Johnson & Johnson because it was not the cutting-edge mRNA, but old-school attenuated virus.

    I hate to break it to you after you were nice to me in the other thread, but the J&J vaccine is actually a viral vector vaccine, not an attenuated virus. It works somewhat similarly to the mRNA vaccines in that it induces your body to make the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, triggering an immune response, except that it uses a genetically modified (so it can’t replicate) adenovirus to deliver the nucleic acid instead of a strand of mRNA.

    Perhaps because it’s only a single dose, but the data I have says it only has an efficacy of 66%, compared to 95% for the Pfizer and 94.5% for the Moderna vaccines. For what it’s worth.

  58. It resides in respiratory droplets, of which masks do a decent but not perfect job of reducing the spread.

    Scads of quick studies of masks have been done over the last sixteen months. You’re in the hole.

  59. According to mkent the pore size of filtration membrane has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the membrane in actual filtration. A novel new principle is at work in engineering, physics, and public health. It’s the “I say so, and STFU” principle. For what it’s worth.

  60. 1. If masks actually worked, there would be some required standard. That cloth diapers crocheted by little girls pass muster shows that they aren’t serious at all.

    2. All the data is garbage. Terms like “cases”, “hospitalizations”, and “deaths” are meaningless. A “case” used to mean someone was so damn sick they went to a doctor with serious symptoms and were diagnosed with flu. With Covid, it has nothing to do with someone being sick. Difference. Same with hospitalizations and deaths. How in the heck is anyone supposed to do meaningful analysis with such worthless information?! All of this exacerbated by crazy testing cycles and the fact that we now know that rapid tests label regular flu as Covid.

    3. Even some skeptics are loathe to admit just how bad the data is. All the smart people who love to crunch numbers can’t stand coming to grips with the reality that they have nothing worthwhile to offer. When numbers are bogus the analysis is worthless. Hey, I realize that the numbers (even as worthless as their are) STILL don’t support the gloom and doom. But why argue over fiction?

    4. I’m amazed at the number of “smart” people with advanced degrees from prestigious schools who are incapable of anything beyond parroting whatever the alleged “experts” feed them. Apparently, they were never taught to actually think. Their entire education seems to have been simple regurgitation. Try to explain that their source of expertise is compromised by serial dishonesty, corruption and/or incompetence and they can’t accept it. To do so would be to admit ignorance and render them no better informed than any idiot living in flyover country. That will never do. [same scenario plays out with global warming, media bias, the political tempest of the day, etc.]

  62. stan said:

    “just how bad the data is.”

    This is what it means to live in a tyranny. In that form of government everybody lies because they fear telling the an unwelcome truth to those above them in the power structure and those at the top lie to “control” those below, but nowhere in any of it is truth to be found.

    Nobody knows anything real, but they all pretend that they do. Eventually the entire edifice collapses unless it has an outside entity, one that does live closer to the real world, that it can draw support from somehow.

    The US has been that outside entity, for a hundred years, for all the tyrannies, left and right. When we stop, they all will also unless they change their ways or we return to sanity.

  63. }}} They are now going to mess with a third school year for kids. Beyond the educational damage think of the emotional warping of children that has gone on. From living in fear of anyone without a mask to the loss of any understanding of risk this stuff will last a long, long time.

    I dunno. They may be raising a generation to say “fuck you” to authorities, too.

    The pendulum swings both ways, always. This generation is already about as conformist as it can be, wearing masks not because they think they need them but to “show solidarity” to each other — every generation looks to distinctify itself somehow.

    Paul Joseph Watson has been pointing out that “the counter culture” now IS “the man”. The only way to be actually counter is to go the other way. Sooner or later, that shit’s gotta break and break hard.

  64. }}} Owen wrote: Here I want only to note that the size of virus particles relative to the size of the pores in a surgical mask is not even close. It’s like throwing sand at a chain link fence.

    Which has virtually nothing to do with the effectiveness of masks to reduce the spread of Covid-19. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is not aerosolized. It resides in respiratory droplets, of which masks do a decent but not perfect job of reducing the spread.

    Except the NIH’s own studies of studies show there is no support for the standard masks being used as doing anything whatsoever to stop the spread of viral agents. In actual fact, they MAY AGGRAVATE THE SITUATION. Follow the science, except when it disagrees with what the politicians want.

    “More studies are needed” is their best response.

    I know someone who bought some property on a 5y flood plain. They’re not worried, though, they’re putting up a chain link fence around it.

    SMH.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

    This one is simpler, it just looks at what happened to the statistics when masking was added, in a wide array of different locations.
    https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/#development-of-cases-after-mask-mandates

  65. BTW, money quote on that last one:
    There is increasing evidence that the novel coronavirus is transmitted, at least in indoor settings, not only by droplets but also by smaller aerosols. However, due to their large pore size and poor fit, most masks cannot filter out aerosols (see video analysis below): over 90% of aerosols penetrate or bypass the mask and fill a medium-sized room within minutes.

    This, of course, completely disagrees with your assertion, but hey, why follow the science, you have an AXE to grind!!

    Don’t allow ME to stand between you with your axe and a grindstone…

    :-/

  66. ‘I’m amazed at the number of “smart” people…’

    Indeed.
    I think the rationale goes something like:
    “Fauci was instrumental in getting rid of Trump. We owe him; so there’s no way we can just drop him like that…. No freakin’ way…”

    Heckuvan argument, ain’t it?

    But perfectly appropriate for the Soviet, Potemkin entity that our betters feel it oh-so-desirable to ape.

    (As “No freakin’ way” echoes around the purple mountains and in the green valleys, along the broad corridors of medicine, law, education and power…of this great land….)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdYZ4GGYbM

  67. As many ask, why would they want Covid to go away?
    It’s been the key to their success in taking over the government and frightening the population into their control.

  68. Masks aren’t harmless. They increase the risks of the wearer getting sick.

    And we are now seeing large numbers of kids in the hospital with RSV in summer (never before) because they wore masks all year at school.

    Who knows about the psych issues down the road, but not likely to be good.

  69. I’m amazed at the number of “smart” people with advanced degrees from prestigious schools who are incapable of anything beyond parroting whatever the alleged “experts” feed them. Apparently, they were never taught to actually think.

    They think pretty well when they’re paid to think. The problem has been the escalating homogenization of culture, the secular decline in integrity and character, the secular increase in the number of people who are pathologically other-directed, and the increase in the prevalence of dispositional and behavioral orders among population subgroups. That’s left us with a professional-managerial class that’s composed of people who are prone to fads, who lie to themselves and others readily, who are easy meat for the cluster B segment of the population, and who have little conception of how to regulate disputes. They don’t have viewpoints, they have attitudes. The expression of attitudes is an exercise in status-jonesing. They are just so awful compared to their counterparts two generations back it makes you want to retch.

  70. I was thinking, the people who want lockdowns, masks, etc. are the same ones who have no real answer to COVID. My feeling is the best we can do is vaccinate as many people we can (even if it means we have to offer incentives which I frankly think is disgraceful) and wait this damn thing out. People do not want to admit that there is only so much we can do and double masking and standing 6 feet apart is merely virtue signaling.

  71. I work in a large hospital. A large percentage of the new covid+ patients have been fully vaccinated. That includes 4 people in my own department. 2 of them were vaccinated. They are also sicker than the other two. The CDC intentionally stopped tracking “breakthrough cases” for this reason. It would expose the lack of efficacy.

  72. It seems as if we’re no better than before we were vaccinated. Because Science (is real). I suppose gathering in large groups with strangers outdoors (and indoors!) is a consolation prize I guess. Masks are the new black square and rainbow flag.

  73. @ BrooklynBoy: From what I’m gathering from my daily talks with others I guess they think that if everyone got the vaccine and wore a mask we’d be A-OKAY by now. But then they forgot about the flu. Every year (oddly enough people and the press forgot about the flu in fall/winter of 2020) people die of the flu, get sick despite getting the flu vaccine, some never get the flu with or without the vaccine, but since COVID is a “ocne in a generation pandemic” you have to get it or else.

    I also find it amusing that the world, especially leftie Americans, still think America is the bully on planet Earth throughout the past two years or so even though China accidentally let out a virus that has killed millions worldwide, ruined economies and has forever changed public health policies. I’d bet a large sum of money that if it was America who did this people would be saying that due to America’s arrogance and lack of concern for others besides itself (they’ll blame nationalism and capitalism) it’s just another example of America’s sordid past of colonialism or whatever. Then again the Left has warmed up to Islam despite its extreme sector committing 9/11 where Muslims – especially Muslim women – are on their good side because they’re brown and wear clothing that makes them standout (i.e. hijab). In comparison a neckline with a cross is seen as judgmental and Jews are seen as white people with white privilege.

    This time? China is the buddy of The Left where no mask and no vaccination are signs of bigotry, ignorance and selfishness. You don’t want to be a bigot, ignorant or selfish do you? China isn’t the culprit here. They just made a mistake; they’re just victims of capitalism! The American rubes who don’t wear masks and aren’t vaccinated are!

  74. I live in a town with a hospital. I know no one who has gotten the vaccine that has died; the CDC must be covering up these unknown fatalities. Two people I “know” were turned into newts by the vaccine, but two others got better. They were made of wood.

  75. om,

    Everybody knows that nobody that gets the vaccine will ever die let alone have a heart attack or get cancer or anything but on the off chance they do it will definitely be caused by the vaccine.

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