Have ten thousand people died from the COVID vaccine?
I’ve seen that figure touted here and there online, and the other day a friend of mine also insisted that people are dropping like flies from the vaccine. At this point, I see no reason to believe that’s true.
It’s not that I naively trust the government or the CDC or the MSM at this point; I don’t. But it stands to reason to me that if you give a vaccine to half the population and far more than half of the elderly population, you’re going to have a lot of “adverse events” coming afterwards.
The rumor seems to have come from the manner in which such events are being reported for COVID vaccines. This article makes sense to me, and until further evidence emerges that it’s wrong (and of course that could happen), I believe that this vaccine is not especially dangerous. Here’s an example of what I mean:
Deaths reported to VAERS are not a “death toll.” The database includes all serious adverse events following vaccination against COVID-19 — regardless of whether the vaccines are to blame. There have been more deaths reported to VAERS following COVID-19 vaccination than for other vaccines, but experts told USA TODAY that’s not because the vaccines are deadly. Anti-vaccine advocates have erroneously cited the database for decades…
VAERS relies on healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers and vaccine recipients to submit reports of adverse events following vaccination. Those events are not called “symptoms” or “side effects” because events reported to VAERS are not all verifiably linked to the vaccines, as the CDC says on its website.
These reports are relatively rare for FDA-approved vaccines. Between 2000-2020, VAERS received 1,005 reports of death after vaccination, according to a USA TODAY analysis of VAERS data…
One reason for the inflated reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination is that healthcare providers are required to report all serious adverse events, regardless of whether they think they’re related to the shot.
“Healthcare providers’ reporting requirements (for COVID-19 vaccines) are much broader than for other vaccines,” Shimabukuro told USA TODAY.
After someone receives a COVID-19 vaccine, their healthcare provider is required by law to report all serious adverse health events, even if the provider does not think the vaccine caused that event. These events can include death, inpatient hospitalization or a serious case of COVID-19. That reporting protocol is due to the fact that the FDA authorized the COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use.
For other vaccines — such as the flu vaccine and the measles, mumps and rubella vaccines — the requirements are different. According to Shimabukuro, providers do not have to report deaths or other adverse events for FDA-approved vaccines unless they fit specific criteria of reportable events.
But that’s not all. It turns out that anyone – not just medical people, but anyone – can report to the system. Because the COVID vaccine is so controversial and there’s so much interest in it as well as political implications, it is probably the case that more people are reporting data to the system than with other previous disease vaccinations.
This all makes sense to me, as I said. Nevertheless I support the right of anyone to refuse to be vaccinated, for any reason.
With regards to everything around Covid my default position is to be skeptical of just about any piece of news or information, good, bad, or indifferent. I pay very close attention to what exactly is being said/claimed/alleged and by whom. Before I attempt to draw any conclusions I try to find both corroborating or contradicting information from other sources. And I ask myself, does this make sense? I honestly try to be a objective as I can, even if it leads to a conclusion that I might not like.
Given all that, I agree that it certainly seems a rather bold claim that 10k people have died specifically from being vaccinated (meaning the vaccine is what killed them rather than some other thing). The possible explanations in that article also seem pretty reasonable to me.
But, even if it were true… even if the vaccinations themselves did cause the deaths of 10,000 people, given the number of people that have been vaccinated worldwide so far (which evidently is now in the billions**) it’d still only be something like 0.0054% chance of death from being vaccinated.
** Yes, I know this is “doses” not “individual people”, but even if you divided the 3.71 billion people by 2 (since most vaccines are 2 dose) you’d still be at 1.85 billion. And I’m also aware that this number also includes hundreds of millions of Chinese and Russian vaccines of highly dubious efficacy.
Taking the 10,000 figure at face value, 10,000 Americans dead from the vaccine out of 160 million who are fully vaccinated yields a fatality rate of 0.00625%. This compares with 625,000 Americans dead from Covid out of 35 million cases yielding a fatality rate of 1.8%.
Thus you are 286 times as likely to die from Covid as you are the vaccine.
I’ve seen no real reason so far to think that the vaccines aren’t safe. My biggest concern is that, for obvious reasons, there was no time to test for long term side-effects, but I still think it was worth whatever risk there was to get vaccinated. However, I do know people who do not want to receive the vaccine, and I worry about an increasingly authoritarian government forcing them to get in, one way or another, against their will.
Topo Gigio: My biggest concern is that, for obvious reasons, there was no time to test for long term side-effects, but I still think it was worth whatever risk there was to get vaccinated.
Yeah, mine too. Although it seems fairly remote, it’s at least distantly possible that these new mRNA vaccines could somehow lead to some sort of weird auto immune syndrome or something of that nature in some small percentage of people in like 10 years. That’d be a nightmare. But again, I think there’s only a fairly remote chance of something like that happening.
One of the big problems with all this has been the dismissal of people with a level of natural immunity through infection. It amazes me how this is just brushed aside. I had a mild case of Covid in January. Basically like the cold I usually get every winter with the addition of the loss of taste that was pretty weird. So I wasn’t going to get the vaccine for awhile at least but then they started hinting around about people not being allowed in my mom’s facility unless vaccinated and so I decided to get the stupid vaccine. I had the Moderna one and the first shot was no problem but the second one was a lot worse for me. I had it in my left arm and my neck, shoulder, arm on the left side were very sore and that night I got about the worst case of the chills I have ever had. It was not pleasant but by the next morning I was OK and later that day I was perfectly fine. But this was far worse than the Covid.
Just another example where the medical establishment have just discarded all they have known for centuries in a year. Good times.
Once you discover that federal agencies and a majority of the medical ‘profession’ has repeatedly lied, distorted and concealed relevant information, upon what basis would you accept anything they’ve said or may say in the future?
They’ve lost all legitimacy. Nor can they ever regain it.
I am skeptical of the 10,000 dead figure, for reasons cited here.
Nonetheless, I do think authorities are deliberately downplaying reports of negative reactions. One of my daughters, age 38, was sick for two days from the first Pfizer shot, and sick for two weeks from the second, the first five days of that nearly incapacitated by severe headaches, body aches, and fatigue. She says if her company requires a booster she’s going to her doctor to get a written exemption. Her chance of dying from COVID are nearly nil.
Now they are pushing for people that got the J & J one shot vaccine to get a shot of either Moderna/Pfizer also.
Never ends.
But [the second shot of vaccine] was far worse than the Covid.
Griffin, Kate:
I’m aware no vaccine is entirely without side-effects. While I don’t remember all the shots I got as a young child, I do remember my smallpox vaxx and several flu shots and I experienced no noticeable consequences.
I got the one-shot J&J and I was really knocked out for a couple of days. (It’s true I was also catching up on sleep from a stressful semester.)
It seems quite common with the Covid vaxx for people to report something unpleasant.
huxley,
I’ve never had any adverse reaction to a vaccine that I can remember anyway and this wasn’t like some major thing but it was not pleasant. I was in bed shaking with a pillow over my head because I was so cold for a couple of hours.
An in law of mine also was knocked out by the J&J vaccine.
I’m not saying it’s not worth it, it may be, but it is also not nothing.
“This article” (hovering link)… USA Today is it?
Game over. Thanks for playing.
Wife and I, J&J, at the beginning of April, no reactions at all just like our yearly flu shots and every other vaccine we have ever gotten.
I wonder if this Tom Shimabukuro is related to the amazingly talented ukulele player Jake Shimabukuro. It’s not exactly a common name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYhcN8p4yhg
What’s lacking in this discussion everywhere is age adjusted deaths.
No one appears to be doing this calculation! But this is the most relevant piece of data to make cost-benefit estimates.
There are experts who assert that VAERS vastly underestimates related deaths. But I see no compelling reason to believe them.
However, I did see and read a report on the likely mechanism involved, platelet epitopes (appearing in Nature earlier this month).
This identification leads to solid treatment, once diagnosed: the blood thinner Heparin.
In the meantime, people concerned about this side effect should take low dose aspirin for a period before and after getting the Trump Vax. It’s cheap, available, and a Cleveland Clinic study in February on its use in Covid found it 50% effective.
Better to be proactive than reactive, and get in with life by simply managing risks.
A Tweet from Dr. Robert Malone,
My positions –
1) bioethics require full risk disclosure and free choice. Neither of these are being met.
2) For high risk populations, the risk/benefit ratio for the USA vaccines seem to make sense.
3) We do not know all the risks yet.
Another site looking into his credentials states the following:
“While Malone’s research may have been important, scientific breakthroughs don’t always boast a sole “inventor.” Instead, they come about through the work of many.
UPDATE: Malone reached out to Logically, stating that he did not invent the mRNA vaccines, but instead the “vaccine technology platform.” He also presented us with copies of nine patents – none of which showed that he invented the mRNA vaccines. The judgment for the claim has not changed.
The COVID-19 pandemic has given rise to a lot of potentially dangerous misinformation. For reliable advice on COVID-19, including symptoms, prevention, and available treatment, please refer to the World Health Organization or your national healthcare authority.”
As a person with seriological evidence of IGG antibodies and absolutely NO CONFIDENCE in the CDC and WHO based on our own experiences last year, with a husband that has exhibited life-threatening responses to a spike protein, I will stick with Dr. Malone for what I find to be sane information in insane times.
@geoffb:
You could be lucky. You could be a baseline normal vaccine response case. Or it could mean that your immune system is so old and tired that it doesn’t react, let alone over-react much to an onslaught of vaccine-induced spikiness. Further along the spectrum, some unfortunate people with a bunch of over-compensated underlying conditions might need just the slightest nudge with a feather — perhaps mild allergic reaction to filler/stabilizer components of vax to send them over the edge regardless of immune system health.
So many variables and so many confounding factors that it might take ten years to get a good handle on net efficacy of these vaccines. Which I guess is why approval process normally is ~10 years.
I guess beats being conscripted and shipped off to the Somme. There’s that.
Debunk of the Alabama BS Hoax of some Karen Doctor claiming that dying Covid Patients are begging her for the vax, too late:
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243014
I recommend the Joe Rogan “emergency Ivermectin” podcast. It’s banned on YouTube but available on Spotify or a few dissident sites.
If this was a true emergency they’d be deploying Ivermectin to nail down its capabilities.
The IFR is noticeably lower than mkent’s CFR
number. As the saying goes: I’d tell you a Covid joke but there’s a 99.75% chance you wouldn’t get it.
The age and medical condition of dead infectees is super important to consider as well, when comparing the danger of vaccine versus getting infected.
Meanwhile, Repubs make it clear they’re allied with Dems and against freedom in America.
Tim Pool on Twitter:
“They said I was crazy but who’s laughing now!
No one.
No one is laughing”
https://mobile.twitter.com/timcast/stat … 4194169858
Sen McConnell: Get vaxxed or get locked down
mkent…I don’t take any of those numbers at face value.
I especially don’t take the 625K deaths “from” SARS-Covid-2 at face value.
Like GB noted…”upon what basis would you accept anything they’ve said or may say in the future?”
Because the lies have come so thick & fast over the course of my lifetime…I assume governmental agencies & their media propaganda arms are lying & then I wait for the truth to wiggle out from underneath almost accidentally.
@ Zaphod
I know everybody’s case is different, that was just mine.
Due to my wife’s medical condition and my status as her only caregiver we went on, what is now called but wasn’t then, lockdown and social distancing in Nov. 2019 because the flu vaccine was reported to be quite ineffective that year. Not worried about death from it, the flu, but if I get infected so does she and the caregiving becomes very, very hard when we are both sick. The Covid thing just extended it hugely.
Luckily we enjoy each others company and so it was a happy cocoon, but what it did to others was horrific. I have despised the Left for almost 50 years and yet what they have done in the past few years surprised even me.
Can Do!
The Somme was fought largely by volunteers including Kitchener’s Army, the Pals, not conscripts. The conscripts didn’t get to France until late 1916, after the Somme. You got your own history wrong. Sad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchener%27s_Army
@geoffb:
You made the right decision for you and your wife. I did likewise for my circumstances (I’m vaxed too — had a pretty rough time with second shot.. but I’m younger). I wasn’t in anyway gainsaying your decision or experience, please don’t get me wrong.
I think on the whole, it makes sense to roll the dice and chance the Vax for most people.
Agree that the Managerialist BugElite have shown their true faces during this pandemic. Not a pretty sight at all and ought not be forgotten in a hurry.
@om:
At least I’ve got an entire Race (or three) living Rent-Free in my head. How do you manage with just me rattling around inside yours? I’m no Walt Whitman so it really is just me.
@ Zaphod
Thank you. Text is such a low bandwidth medium that it makes misunderstandings easy and more writing than time and my poor typing skills allows me to make myself clear.
Before May 10th, my extended family had 4 healthy-for-their-age grandparents. Since then, two have died suddenly, both from unexpected heart issues, and two in hospital with life threatening issues caused by – wait for it – blood clots.
You know, the kind of thing that had several countries abandoning the Astra Zeneca vax.
The cardiologist who treated my MIL when she passed said he had only seen an aortal tear like hers 3 times in a thirty year career.
They were all vaxxed and at the time I felt that their age justified chancing the vax.
Beginning to think that was a mistake.
Several other friends have lost elderly parents these last few months, all vaxxed. Never seen anything quite like it – but coincidences do happen.
These incidents will never be linked to the vax and recorded in VAERS.
I’ll make my final judgement after I hear the excess death statistics for > 85 years old for 2021.
Molly Brown, Dr. Malone refers to the over 80 deaths as “white noise” in that deaths from heart attacks, strokes etc occur at that time of life. I am keeping my own personal record of people who have been harmed/died within 3 months of receiving the vaccine. I now have a record of 6 harmed (3 hospitalized, 1 on a slow death walk) and 1 dead. The death is a neighbor of 84 years with no prior health issues, living the charmed life she always did who following a typical lunch out with friends went home and died of a sudden heart attack. Dr. Malone states that until heart issies manifested in younger people (not “white noise”) this hasn’t been taken seriously. Let’s face it, this is an experimental treatment whose subject recipients are not being tracked for subsequent outcomes. Not scientific at all. And this following the exact opposite approach to the virus where every health calamity was ascribed to COVID-19. It is down the memory-hole at this point how quickly things turned on a dime once the vaccine was released. Suddenly the fact that there is a natural death rate was back on the table. Politicized medical circumstances while tons of money is being made by certain entities at the great expense of small businesses and personal freedom. Authoritarianism hurling toward totalitarianism all under the guise of public health safety. I do not believe there exists a true concern about mine or my family’s health or anyone’s health that is motivating what is going on. Not at all.
Molly Brown:
The only thing that will tell us whether the vaccine is involved in extra deaths is statistics rather than anecdotal incidents. Of course, if one doesn’t trust the statistics to be true, that makes it hard.
My perception, though, is that clusters of people dying in a family (especially elderly people) is not at all unusual. Almost every elderly person in the US has been vaccinated – the rate is very high. So one might expect a certain number of deaths to happen, and to happen within a certain time frame of vaccination, and also at times to cluster, without any of it being related to the vaccine.
I have a friend who lost 3 or 4 grandparents in a single year, about twenty years ago. No vaccines were involved; it just happened. They were old. Perhaps some of them even may have had their deaths hastened by losing their long-term spouses, so there might have been a chain reaction effect from that.
When I was a child, I lost a large number of relatives in the space of about a year, and they weren’t even all old. It was a very scary thing, but it had nothing to do with vaccines, and they all died of separate causes.
Geoffrey Britain said it best IMHO:
“Once you discover that federal agencies and a majority of the medical ‘profession’ has repeatedly lied, distorted and concealed relevant information, upon what basis would you accept anything they’ve said or may say in the future?
They’ve lost all legitimacy. Nor can they ever regain it.”
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
The things I find the most disturbing about the vaccine (or at least, the vaccine sell):
1) The same people we know fudged/lied/misrepresented Covid infection/death numbers are the same people talking about VAERS concerns being overblown.
2) We have no way of knowing what the long term effects are and all concerns about it are ‘pooh poohed’ away as fear mongering, by the same people who want us to give up our liberty to lockdowns, masks, and vaccine cards/passes/passports.
3) Why is there no substantive public discussion about people who have acquired natural immunity through infection with Covid?
4) There is a concerted effort to draw an equivalence between people like me, who have Covid vaccine doubts (but who are not, in general, “anti-vaxxers”) and people who believe the vaccines are a plot by Bill Gates et. al. as some sort of Satanic ‘de-population’ conspiracy to kill billions of or at least render them sterile.
There is a vast spectrum of possibilities between why someone may doubt the wisdom of vaccination, in this case, and the over-the-top bats#@t crazy conspiracy theories regarding the vaccine. And anyone who tries to force you into making a choice between two positions be equating you with the most extreme end of that spectrum end of one spectrum and their own “entirely reasonable” position is a con artist, full stop.
The vaccine may be safe, or as safe as it is possible for something to be. But when people like me are silenced on social media and lumped in with the same people who claim “Bill Gates wants to kill us all for the environment”, it makes me wonder why the hard sell? Why the need for this?
People are lying to us and I find it hard to believe they are lying to me for my own good. I’m not in an at risk category, nor are my wife and children. Why should we be forced to get this shot? Even if I didn’t have an anti-authoritarian streak a mile wide and therefore refused the people pushing the vaccine on principle, I wouldn’t get it.
Their efforts to convince me and coerce me don’t make me trust them and their motives. Especially with the trust I have already lost in the experts this past 18 months.
Am I just a contrarian? Because the more they try to ‘convince’ me with these tactics and rhetoric, the less I trust them.
AN UPDATE AND CORRECTION FROM THE CDC (via Epoch Times): reported data on vaccination deaths accidentally doubled. (Is this the same as VAERS? Or different? No, the same.)
=========
A sudden jump in the post-COVID-19 vaccination death reports is not correct and was the result of an “error,” according to a U.S. health agency.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Friday said a passive reporting system it runs with the Food and Drug Administration had received 12,313 reports of death among those who received a COVID-19 vaccine.
That was a sharp increase from the previous number of reports, 6,079.
The jump would have effectively doubled the percentage of post-vaccination death reports, from 0.0018 percent to 0.0036 percent.
But a CDC spokeswoman told The Epoch Times the number the agency has displayed on its website is not correct.
“It is double what it was yesterday and so it definitely is incorrect,” the spokeswoman said. “We checked our stats internally and it’s only 6,000. So someone doing an update misrepresented that or made a mistake, in other words.”
“We caught it this morning ourselves and noticed that it had doubled suddenly,” she added.
The spokeswoman was unable to say when the error would be fixed. “It’s being worked out,” she said.
Investigative journalist Alex Berenson first reported on the number in question, which stems from reports submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).
“The new figure means CDC has now received more reports of deaths following Covid vaccination than ALL OTHER VACCINES COMBINED IN THE 30-YEAR HISTORY OF VAERS,” he wrote on Twitter.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3978114/posts
Sharon W, you and your husband had the virus, and your immunity is now probably better than that of those who have been immunized. There is no good reason for you to get the vaccines, and, as you note, it might even be dangerous.
“And anyone who tries to force you into making a choice between two positions be equating you with the most extreme end of that spectrum end of one spectrum and their own “entirely reasonable” position is a con artist, full stop.”
That kind of gibberish is what I get for typing on my phone!
Anyway, my point was that when someone forces a choice between to extreme ends of the spectrum, when there are many valid choices in between, that someone is a con artist.
Well… to paraphrase a recent cliche: Did they die *with* the vaccine, or *of* the vaccine? I’m asking in the interest of fairness, not that I expect that to be reciprocated.
I am not rushing to the defense of anything indefensible, but myself, my entire extended family, and everyone I work with are all fully vaccinated with not a single side-effect. Speaking for myself, the shots didn’t hurt beyond any other normal shot, I did not even experience ‘COVID arm’.
It leads me to believe that those suffering adverse effects might have fared similarly with other treatments for other conditions. It’s just my experience and opinion, but at some point we are going to have to take a look at our general state of health; strong, healthy people do not get bowled over so easily. To politicize the symptom (the already compromised being the most susceptible, but focusing on the fact they got sick from this when anything would have likely knocked them off of their feet) rather than the cause (people having heart attacks in their 30s due to their own health negligence/apathy) is beyond egregious to me. So much for Michelle’s health reform years ago.
Sharon W: “I do not believe there exists a true concern about mine or my family’s health or anyone’s health that is motivating what is going on.”
For one thing, if they cared about health they would seal the southern border. Not release sick people to roam at will among the population.
One wonders if recent, slight upticks in cases is due to Delta … or freed illegals.
It will be … interesting … if they reinstate lockdowns and mail in voting just before midterms. And blame the unvaxxed for the shutdown
JimNorCal:
Unpredictable, unprecedented, unexpected, inconceivable. Bank on it? 🙂
“It is down the memory-hole at this point how quickly things turned on a dime once the vaccine was released.”
I certainly agree that things “turned on a dime”.
However, I would attribute the cause to “…once Biden ‘was elected’ President.”
Though certainly, there is a connection. (Politics, politics, politics.)
Keeping in mind that the vaccine was released while Trump was still president (not that “Biden” would acknowledge it)…. Moreover, we should note that it was precisely because of that particular timing that Kamala Harris—she of “challenged” memory…and almost everything else—declared at the time that she would refuse to get vaccinated.
Re: Long-term side-effects…
The SSRI antidepressants such as Prozac were approved without long-term testing.
Back in the 90s and 00s it seemed half the women I knew were on them. I expect many of them still are.
Medical authorities didn’t expect people to stay on SSRIs for long periods. But one-quarter of those taking antidepressants have been on them for over a decade.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-concerns-emerge-about-long-term-antidepressant-use-11567004771
There are now studies suggesting that antidepressants are linked with increased risk of heart attacks, strokes and diabetes, but it’s hard to nail down firm conclusions.
Still, many people swear by antidepressants. Clearly an individual choice.
JimNorCal:
“It will be … interesting … if they reinstate lockdowns and mail in voting just before midterms.’
It is my belief that the whole Texas Dem fleebagger trip was about just that.
Doing this they managed to get the right-media & pundits to imply through their talking and mocking about the event, that masks were needed, Delta was a threat to spread, that travel should be restricted, and that politicians and their staffs should not mingle with those outside of DC.
I further don’t believe that any of those said to be infected were, but that is because I suspect every news event coming out of DC to be in some way massaged to help the left if not made up wholesale.
To the people here who are claiming to have no side effects from the shots, I have just one word for you…”yet”.
To the people who have gotten the shots: they are not a vaccine, they don’t provide any protection (certainly not immunity), and they have a *known* problem rate higher than all other vaccines added together for the last 30 years. These are objective facts. It will only take a couple of years to know if these shots are going to kill millions or if they are merely ineffective and expensive. For a more in depth post about the actual risk numbers associated with axxing/not vaxxing see Karl Denninger at https://market-ticker.org/
You can find real risk numbers there, not the emotional hand waving of desperate people that is going on in these comments.
Emotional hand waving? Lots of dire claims and certainty from Vin. Time indeed will tell, it always does.
That is a new take on the comments; that the vaccines have no side effects. File that under, falsity.
Vin Ngyuen:
Useless strawman argument on your part.
No one here is claiming that there’s any vaccine that has no side effects, and certainly not that the COVID vaccine has no side effects. Of course it has side effects.
You’re very late to the party. There have been extensive discussions at this blog for years on COVID and the COVID vaccine, both in posts and comments. But I doubt you’ve come here to actually learn what people think.