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Is Israel about to commit suicide? — 55 Comments

  1. It’s not just that Israel has a parliamentary system, but that people do not vote for specific representatives based on the district in which they live. Everyone all over the country votes for a party, and not their Member of Knesset. And the party sends their people to the Knesset.

    And that was is one of the big problems.

  2. So the result of the insane Israeli system is that the country suffers from a tyranny not of the majority, but of the idiots who can form a coalition. And to form a coalition, some people will sell their soul, grandmother, and/or country, viz. Naftali Bennett.

    It may not have been so bad back when there was much more a patriotic love it country, even among the left. But Israeli politicians have gotten more and more like ours: Power purely for the sake of being in power. (Like Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer…)

  3. I have a suspicion Caroline Glick is rather labile. Let her blow of steam and settle.

    The mess in Israel is by all appearances a function of personal enmity among the chiefs of the country’s starboard parties – notably Avigdor Lieberman for Netanyahu. Multiple elections have returned clear majorities for the nationalist and religious parties, but not enough to take Lieberman’s veto power away. So, now you have Naftali Bennett playing the opportunist and setting up an assemblage of incongruous parts.

    One should note that the ‘left wing’ parties in Israel as the term would have been understood in Europe during the Cold War are Hadash and Meretz, who have 3 seats and 6 seats respectively (out of 120 in the Knesset). Another 7 seats are held by Arab parties of a variety of dispositions but alike in their alienation from the main currents of Israel’s political society. The Labor Party has recovered somewhat from it’s nadir but still holds only 7 seats. It appears to have decayed culturally and looks rather more like the British Labor Party of today than the Israel Labor Party as it was under Yitzhak Rabin. In sum, these organizations account for just shy of 20% of the Knesset. The technocratic and social-liberal strands in Israel’s political spectrum outnumber these other strands.

  4. Lee’s comment is correct – IIRC Italy is the only other country where people vote for a party slate rather than a local representative. And they are also known for having a corrupt and ineffective government.

    1. Politicians are not beholden to voters in their districts for their political future, but to party bosses and other influencers. The disastrous Oslo “piece” plan passed after an MP was bribed with a Mercedes.

    2. Small groups can skim enough votes nationwide to get into Parliament where they wield disparate power as kingmakers.

    Local surveys have 65 percent of Bennet’s voters expressing remorse. Bennet seems to be convinced that he will wow us all once he gets into tbe Prime Minister’s seat – but it is more likely that he will be played for a patsy by his coalition partners, who started talking with the Biden team about jump-starting the 2 state solution behind Bennet’s back.

    I read Caroline Glick regularly and recommend her to foreigners who want to know what’s going on here. In addition she had a brief stint in politics as a member of Bennet’s original party. So she knows him better than other journalists. In this case it gives me no pleasure to say that she”s probably right.

    (Art Deco – maybe you are the labile one. I’ll stick with a proven hand like Glick…)

    Netanyahu must take some of the blame for this. Many of the people now running against him were part of the Likud party’s strong bench of honest conservative MPs and were effective in ministerial posts. Netanyahu has totally failed to build a broad popular movement, despite the talent in the Likud and the ascent of centrist, conservative ideas in the general population as the folly of Oslo and the failure of socialism have discredited the Left. It’s true that Bennet – who had already acheived success in hi-tech – was always impatient and ambitious, but other leaders of breakaway parties – like Gideon Saar – served the Likud long and faithfully. Netanyahu is an “alpha male” who built a personality cult and cut off rivals.

  5. Love Israel. Hope everything will be fine there soon.. Mr. Lieberman is very smart, he will find a way to make things work

  6. Both Old and New Testament prophecies seem to indicate that at the end, just before the Day of the Lord, Jerusalem will be in a real bad situation. The description seems to be of Jerusalem captured by hostile forces, the temple ( or what portion is yet to be rebuilt, defiled) with what seems to have some similarities to what happened just before the time of the Maccabees and in the first century with the Romans. Zechariah chapter 14, Daniel 9:27 , 12:1 Matthew 24:15-30

  7. from the disparate groups forming the anti-Trump coalition here – got together with the overriding purpose of ousting him from power.

    There weren’t disparate groups. It was just the Democratic Party being the Democratic Party. The ‘Republicans’ involved were all opinion journalists and slugs from the Capitol Hill / K Street / national-security-state nexus. They had no popular base. Opinion research was consistent that self-identified Republicans alienated from Trump were no more common than were self-identified Republicans alienated from George Bush the Younger, Ronald Reagan, or (at his peak) Richard Nixon.

    While we’re at it, George W Bush is busily selling out his quondam constituency. To hell with him.

  8. IIRC, Naftali Bennett used to lead the successor to the old National Religious Party. He’s like David Frum – reinvent every half-dozen years or so.

  9. I used to consider Italy to be the poster child for the pitfalls of Parliamentary government; until I took a look at Israel.

    We see once again how prescient our Founders were. Of course a Constitutional Republic only works as long as the Constitution is respected.

  10. “….labile…”

    Actually, Glick has been extraordinarily consistent over the past 15-20 years.

    Regarding the proposed coalition government (if it does get off the ground), its seeming lack of stability would appear to indicate that from the outset it’s hanging from a thread; though, paradoxically, this extreme tenuousness might be precisely what keeps it together. Perhaps (though I wouldn’t want to count on it).

    Several questions are how it might forge “ahead” with its principal components pulling in such different directions—unless the need to ensure Netanyahu’s fall is sufficient glue; but one wonders.

    In addition, if the new government truly believes it will be able to proposition the Palestinian Authority for peace talks, it would seem that it will have to learn once again what ALL previous Israeli administrations have learned before them (AKA the definition of “insanity”).

    A larger problem is the seeming belief that the country they will be governing has the support of the current US administration—an administration that has, in its previous incarnation, gone out of its way (if with some—seeming—exceptions) to demonstrate otherwise. For no matter how one looks at it, an American alliance with Iran (or the Palestinians, for that matter) means the “Biden” administration cannot be trusted to act in “its” own country’s interests, let alone be honest regarding “support” for the Jewish State.

    The kicker, IOW, is: If “Biden” treats “his” own country so shabbily and prevaricates so extravagantly, how can “he” be trusted about anything “he” says regarding Israel’s security. (No doubt this is a problem for other countries that have traditionally relied on Washington.)

    All this is something the new Israeli government (along with policy wonks, in both countries, mouthing the “US as Israel ally” chimera) will have to discover on its own, it seems. Alas.

    To what extent, such recklessness has emboldened Israel’s enemies has already been seen. Thus the last question is to what extent they will be emboldened further. Unfortunately, that question is likely a rhetorical one.

  11. My prediction before Sundowner stepped foot in the WH was from the administration point of view Israel was going to have a hard time, shooting themselves they are probably done for.

  12. Neo wrote, “I had never heard the word “eternalizing” before…”

    Don’t immanentize the eschaton!

  13. The “anti-Glick” argument ( though quite possibly from the Department of “Some People Are Far Too Smart for their Own Good”):
    https://davidmweinberg.com/2021/06/04/fetters-on-israels-political-passions/
    = = = =
    Regarding “reimagined”, Israel has through the decades been “reimagined” many a time. Is constantly being “reimagined”,,a ctually.

    As long as this continues to take place on the plane of “imagination”, things will be manageable.

    (It’s the being “fundamentally transformed” that’s a cause for worry…)

  14. The coalition will collapse within 6 months, and elections will be held again this Fall.

  15. We see once again how prescient our Founders were.

    No we don’t. You’d have a very difficult time demonstrating that separation-of-powers generates better outcomes than parliamentary institutions in any systematic way. Israel’s problem is one of political sociology – Israeli society has masses of cross-cutting cleavages which tend to generate political factions and the electoral system used for a century doesn’t generate aggregative pressures. Israel isn’t the 4th Republic in France. The ministry in Israel has to be reconstituted every two years on average, not every six months.

  16. IIRC Italy is the only other country where people vote for a party slate rather than a local representative.

    It isn’t.

  17. Art Deco – maybe you are the labile one.

    I wasn’t the one who produced 800 words worth of chicken little.

  18. Well, you have your perspective Art Deco, and I have mine.

    From my perspective we had a pretty good thing going until people decided that Constitutional principles were relative. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say until the mass of the population grew so fat and lazy that it just let the anti-constitutionalists have their way, so long as they did not interfere with leisure activities.

    When you speak of issues related to separation of powers, I trust you do not mean tribalism even though that is increasingly our governing principle.

  19. Like everyone, I don’t know if Israel is about to commit suicide.

    I do know that the Israeli Left will never permanently govern Israel because given half a chance, Islam will destroy Israel.

    I’d also bet that if Israel should ever fall, leftists will be the first to flee.

  20. Link below is to a far more optimistic view of things, from the perspective of an American evangelical conservative. I have no idea which of these will prove correct, or maybe like us Israel will stumble through the next few years. I believe that Israel is the most important small nation in the world. I don’t think there are any other important small nations.

    https://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbrown/2021/06/07/why-i-am-hopeful-about-the-new-israeli-government-n2590563?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=06/07/2021&bcid=0fc4fb15c5a2f6fbf32db7fa2e32ad0c&recip=6252173

  21. “Don’t immanentize the eschaton!”

    Would certainly be a crime to do it before I’ve downed my third coffee after awakening.

  22. USA Commits Suicide: The Lawn Boy will save us!

    Israel Commits Suicide: Much cogitation, rending of garments, tearing of hair, spilling of printer’s ink.

    Now the traditional way to resolve this kind of full on societal discord is to choose a Scapegoat and go the whole Halachic Hog on it. A Williamsburg sacrificial chicken just won’t do for a serious case like this. May I humbly suggest Jonathan Pollard? It’s obvious anyway… politically things have come to a head since his traitorous blood-befouled feet polluted the tarmac in Tel Aviv. QED.

    Learn from History. Works every time. For a While.

    It’s what they’re doing with Bibi anyway. Sure he’s an asshole and corrupt… but he’s the corrupt asshole needed for survival.

  23. Dan Greenfield on a related issue:

    http://www.danielgreenfield.org/2021/06/jewish-studies-has-anti-semitism-problem.html

    Always with the infighting and betrayals.

    One of the main reasons *for* Israel was to get everybody in the same boat with more or less aligned interests — and to have national survival as a constant goad and lodestar. In other words purge all the diaspora dysfunctions in the Cleansing Fire of Zionist Nationalism (Hmm… My kind of guys!)

    But here we are. Train Wreck of Infighting and Betrayals. Guess everyone is feeling too Safe now that Israel has done so well for so long.

    The boat will probably Right (heh) itself when there’s a proper existential crisis and enough of a body count for people to wake up and take notice. And then maybe people will learn for a while. But never for long. Rapid forgetting is the Human Default after all.

  24. @Cornhead:

    “I trust Caroline Gluck. I wish she would appear on American TV.”

    You should be so lucky.

  25. Ben Shapiro: “ Bibi would be going into the opposition. This isn’t American politics, where losing a presidential election confines you to the outskirts of politics (usually). From the opposition, Bibi, who runs the largest party in Israel, is well-positioned to become PM again in the mid-term.”

  26. It would be a really nice thing were Ben Shapiro to go run for office in Israel. It’s not like he doesn’t have Gonnections.

    The man recently walked on the wild side and bought a Starter Plank from Home Depot. Who knows, if he acquired some (Trigger Warning) carpentry skills, he might be able to build himself a Platform.

  27. “…a proper existential crisis…”

    Perhaps…but Israel just might not have enough strategic depth, if the map is any indication, for “a proper existential crisis.”

    But should the gauge in fact swing toward “existential”, there will likely be a whole lot of pain in the ‘hood.

    Which means that Jews living in what were once believed to be “safe” Western enclaves (though they should have by now disabused themselves of THAT notion) might want to think about getting ready for the next onslaught—the authorities too, for that matter (assuming that said authorities really do wish law & order, such as it is, to be maintained).

  28. Nukes, Biologicals, Manufacturing Bases outsourced to China, insanely complex logistical arrangements, DEMOGRAPHICS…

    The world can be neatly divided into those with *some* workable amount of Strategic Depth and those with little or none.

    The Philippines (just random pick) has more strategic depth than Israel or the USA. It can’t win anything, and isn’t worth winning and is such a happy-go-lucky basket case that it can turn perpetual losing into a karaoke ballad and an excuse for a Pig Roast (or next door’s dog if pig shortage). Worst comes to worst, they’ll just have a good cry, have a singalong and get back to breeding replacements like rabbits. It will abide.

    Israel or the USA or any of the rest of the West are one big misstep with a peer level competitor away from obliteration.

    Israel has to be a socially-cohesive armed camp for its continued survival.

    And this, Folks, is Reason No. 666 why Democracy doesn’t work in C21. In any major conflict there simply won’t be the time and depth to work out all the kinks and stop the internecine fighting. It’ll be over.

  29. To paraphrase, reports of Democracy’s death may well be premature…even if some of its so-called proponents (who really ought to know better—and probably do) seem to be doing their best to bury it…

    …while—sickeningly—mouthing all the familiar platitudes on its behalf as they mercilessly attempt to persecute and slander its actual defenders….

    (To further paraphrase, Democracy may well be in trouble; but its alternatives are in trouble even worse…)

  30. …OTOH, it does seem that the Orwellian Media and Info-tech are doing their damnedest to “fundamentally transform” it….
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cia-disinformation-operations-come-home-us
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/response-faucis-emails-proves-everything-fake-narrative-management-trumps-reality-and

    Though perhaps more Democrats are aware of this discouraging trend than we give them credit for? (I.e., not just Manchin, Sinema and Gabbard, oh my!)

    One an always hope…
    …as the push back continues…

    …and Kamala Harris passes out the cookies—or maybe just passes out, figuratively speaking…(politically speaking?).
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/kamala-trump-won-tone-deaf-vp-passes-out-cookies-herself-then-gets-heckled-guatemala

  31. The Vice Listerine Promoter has been mega pwned by whoever slapped a pearl necklace on her cookies.

  32. Israel has to be a socially-cohesive armed camp for its continued survival.

    Israel and the network of settlements which preceded it have survived for a century with a thoroughly refractory body of politicians reflecting intramural disputes over religion and culture, domestic political economy, and international stances. Military expenditure as a % of GDP has been declining continuously for 50 years and now stands at 5.3%, which is equivalent to the Carter-era Cold War nadir in this country (1976-80). Saudi Arabia and Oman devote proportionately more to their militaries

  33. The Philippines (just random pick) has more strategic depth than Israel or the USA. It can’t win anything, and isn’t worth winning and is such a happy-go-lucky basket case

    The Philippines has nearly universal literacy, a life expectancy at birth north of 70 years, and a homicide rate (6.5 per 100,000) that would have been prior to 2020 perfectly normal for a metropolitan commuter belt in the United States. The country’s total fertility rate is now 2.5 children per woman per lifetime. The ratio of employed persons to persons over the age of 16 is (at 0.57) near the occidental norm of 0.60. They’re not running a deficit on their balance of payments. They could improve their fiscal balance; they usually keep the flow of public sector borrowing under 3% of GDP and currently have a public sector debt stock of 50% of GDP; most OECD countries do not do better. They’re not dependent on fuel and mineral exports; these account for < 2% of nominal domestic product. Real income per capita is about equivalent to that of the United States in the 1920s.

    That's not what a basket case looks like.

  34. The fundamental problem is that 7 million Israeli Jews dominate and control 7 million Palestinians. That is the ultimate source of the anger and violence.

    There is no obvious solution to the problem. The two state solution requires large-scale population transfers, with all Jews withdrawing inside the 1967 borders, which do not include Jerusalem.

    The one state solution requires dissolving the current Zionist state and replacing it with a secular, nonethnic state in which Jews and Palestinians are fully equal.

    I don’t see either side agreeing to either solution. Meanwhile, Hamas has replaced the PA as the unofficial leader of all Palestinians in Israel, the West Bank, Jordan, and Lebanon. Frustration leads to extremism.

  35. “I don’t see either side agreeing to either solution.”
    “Frustration leads to extremism.”

    Some might spot the logical problem. Others might spot the cute equivalence. The scintillating symmetry….

    So it’s “frustration”, eh?

    So yer sayin’ that Israel never offered a deal (or more than one deal) to the Palestinians?

    Or are ye’ sayin’ that the Palestinians have rejected all Israeli offers so far?

    Or are ye’ sayin’ that the Palestinians will—MUST—reject every offer that Israel makes simply because that there is nothing that Israel can offer the Palestinians that the Palestinians can accept (except for an Israeli offer to commit national suicide)?

    Or are ye’ sayin’ that Israel has no right to make any offers since it’s not their land to begin with (so how can they, logically, make any land-for-peace offers)?

    Or are ye’ sayin’ that the Palestinian Right of Return is perfectly justified and that Israel will just have to deal with it?

    Or are ye’ sayin’ that since the global media will demonize Israel no matter what happens that there’s not a whole lot of incentive there for the Palestinians to accept anything?

    (Of course, they DO have their principles…)

    Or are ye’ saying that since the “Biden” administration is dead set on supporting Iran, Hezbullah, Hamas, the PA (and we’ll throw in the Houthis as a bonus) that there’s no real point for the Palestinians to “negotiate” in any event?

    IOW, just sitting back and watch Israel be ground to dust seems to be the Palestinian “strategy”, while from time to time encouraging (and subsidizing) personal attacks on the Nazi-apartheid “oppressor” (though Hamas does shake things up a bit more than that every couple ‘a years)

    Yep, I guess it IS frustration: frustration that the Zionist Entity is still around.

    To be sure, the Imperialist, Crusader, European, Colonialist, Fascist Entity is on its way out. It always is.

    So don’t worry:
    Summud. Steadfastness. Patience. Faith.
    Oh, and—of course—FRUSTRATION!!

    File under: Gotta believe!!

  36. Meanwhile, Hamas has replaced the PA as the unofficial leader of all Palestinians in Israel, the West Bank, Jordan, and Lebanon. Frustration leads to extremism.

    Arabs in Israel and Arabs in Jordan have their own domestic political leadership, which, unlike that on the West Bank and Gaza, is actually subject to review by voters. None of the four political parties in Israel of note and specifically devoted to Arab interests resembles Hamas. In Jordan, there’s an Islamist party with some affinity for Hamas. They’re good for 10 of 130 seats in the legislature.

    The fundamental problem is that 7 million Israeli Jews dominate and control 7 million Palestinians. That is the ultimate source of the anger and violence.

    It’s been pointed out to you that your numbers are false. You continue to use them because liar.

    There is no obvious solution to the problem. The two state solution requires large-scale population transfers, with all Jews withdrawing inside the 1967 borders, which do not include Jerusalem.

    It doesn’t require any transfers at all and most of Jerusalem is located within the 1949 armistice lines.

    Again, the Arab political leadership has since 1971 sabotaged or rejected five separate initiatives to improve their situation, including two straight-up offers of a sovereign state on the West Bank and Gaza. No one of sense gives a rip about their ‘plight’ anymore.

  37. @Art+Deco:

    The Map is not the Territory.

    David Goldman has a good metric for determining whether or not a country is a Basket Case: Does it export its Women? If so, Basket Case.

    But you just keep on cranking those Hollerith Cards through your Tabulators if it keeps you happy. If you’d dug a bit further you’d have noticed that Remittances are running around 9% of Phils GDP.

    You might also want to dig out the Gini Coefficient. Best not ever actually visit some of these places.. there are things out there in Reality would seriously make you cry your eyes out.

  38. Back to Israel. Sooner or later, one side has to drive the other side out. There’s no living in peace together, or side-by-side. Jews are just going to have to let go of the perpetual victimhood comfort blanket / Muh Ethics thing and do a proper job on the Palestinians. Going to be disliked by a large chunk of rest of the global population either way, so might as well just get on with it and secure their homeland properly and be done with it.

    Dump the Palestinians in Madagascar perhaps and let them fight it out with the natives on Pay Per View. Sure as hell don’t want more of them ending up in the West as Refugees.

  39. Beeblebrox has it all figured out since he bought that 50 year old HP gonculator; politics, race relations, even morality! He’s the go to guy for civilization, or the absence of it.

    Commie Do! beeblebrox Commie Doz!

  40. Back to Israel. Sooner or later, one side has to drive the other side out. There’s no living in peace together, or side-by-side.

    They’ve been living side-by-side for a century and the strategic position of the Arabs hasn’t been improving.

  41. David Goldman has a good metric for determining whether or not a country is a Basket Case: Does it export its Women? If so, Basket Case.

    That’s not a good metric. That’s another failed effort by Goldman to be clever. (Have a gander at the predictions he was making about the economy ca. 2010 and compare them to what did happen; not everyone’s self-confidence is warranted).

  42. Interesting article.
    I suspect that Bennett ought to be praying hard that this coalition succeeds because otherwise his political career is likely to be toast.

  43. I suspect that Bennett ought to be praying hard that this coalition succeeds because otherwise his political career is likely to be toast.

    Succeeds at what? Just what sort of common direction can the parties in this coalition settle on but ‘Bibi gone’? How’s this for a slogan to be adopted by the next party he and his sidekick assemble: “Vote for [List 3d Time Lucky]. We’ll give you whatever.”

  44. Well, by joining the motley coalition crew he just scorched his voting base.

    (Other than that…)

  45. All very well, but was Netanyahu doing mean tweets? That’s where the balance lies.

  46. Dear Barry Meislin,

    The Jewish domination of the Palestinians is the problem. I don’t know how to solve it. But peace is impossible without a solution. The current situation drives both Jews and Palestinians to ever growing extremism. The possibility of a genocidal catastrophe is in the cards.

  47. bob syskes:

    Yes the problem is the “palestinians” in Gaza have to rebuild all their infrastructure: their fabled Metro system of massed missile transit. Might be a bit of a mess down there now. Sad.

    One side seems to favor the genocide route. Sucks, truly sucks to be them. What’s that phrase? Stuck on stupid? They are stuck on something far worse.

  48. The Jewish domination of the Palestinians is the problem.

    It’s not a problem at all. The problem is that the Arabs on the West Bank and Gaza and on the UNRWA doles lack the sense and the know-how to build and maintain farms, businesses, and governments. They do know how to hoover up international transfers and engage in brigandage. This creates security problems for the Jews proximate to them, and the competent Arabs proximate to them as well. They’re ‘dominated’ because they are incompetent and destructive and have no interest in any sort of collective action which transcends that.

  49. The current situation drives both Jews and Palestinians to ever growing extremism.

    The salient political stances of the proximate Arab population haven’t changed in 70 years. The cast of characters changes.

    The possibility of a genocidal catastrophe is in the cards.

    Don’t get your hopes up.

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