Open thread 5/11/21
Another crazy story of a pop hit that almost wasn’t. The person speaking is the songwriter John Stewart, who had been a member of the Kingston Trio:
The Monkees, of course, was the name of the assembled TV pop band that became a real band of sorts, and had a lot of hits. Here’s the song as they sang it in 1968, with “happy” instead of “funky”:
For some reason I thought it was Neil Diamond who wrote “Daydream Believer”, but I was mixing it up with a different Monkeys song “I’m a Believer”. “Daydream Believer” is a pop music masterpiece for sure though.
I am reading a book right now called Weird Scenes inside Laurel Canyon by David McGowan, that has ALL kinds of crazy stories about the Monkee’s (especially Peter Tork) and other 60’s bands that lived in Laurel Canyon at the time. REALLY Interesting read…that will make you wonder…..
I read recently about the London scene at that time. Emphasis on fashion, relatively innocent drug use, the pop music of course. Pop religion. Lightweight.
By comparison the US had civil rights and Vietnam bubbling away in the background.
The Monkees displayed a lot of the London vibe.
This made me go look up Gary Lewis and the Playboys, another engineered pop band which had lots of hits. BTW Monkee Mickey Dolenz, as Mickey Braddock, played the title role in the Saturday morning show Circus Boy when he was a wee lad.
I am not a particular fan of the song myself, but am a fan of Stewart himself. He had a briefly successful solo career in the late 70s to 1980.
Gold
Lost Her In The Sun
Midnight Wind
Very nice. Wouldn’t it be interesting to hear the cassette tape or early renditions that caught no one’s fancy, except the Monkey’s producer?
Mr. Stewart said he was a little ADD. Did he mean OCD Neo, or do I misunderstand ADD?
I was a huge Monkees fan during their heyday. Born in 1957 I wasn’t even a teenager yet, heck hadn’t even reached double digits in age. Pretty much wore out their first record, The Monkees. Saw them perform, without Michael Nesmith, in the summer of 1977 at a Six Flags near St. Louis MO. I had moved on by then but it was fun.
I remember back in the ’70s (can’t be more precise than that) some Rolling Stone reviewer(s) being wildly enthusiastic about John Stewart and griping that he wasn’t more widely appreciated. Never heard much of his work apart from Daydream Believer and the ones mentioned by Yancey Ward that got some radio play.
I was thinking I had one of his albums from back then but a quick dive into the LP closet says no. One of those albums I had never really listened to.
Tommy Jay — ADD is Attention Deficit Disorder. Persons with it are easily distracted or annoyed have difficulty paying attention and concentrating.
What a difference a word makes — funky to happy. From flop to hit. I have an artist friend who painted many of the glass mattes for Star Wars, ET, The Ewok Movie, and many others. When he left movies for a solo portrait/landscape career, his income dropped. Few people were buying his landscape paintings as beautiful as they were. Recently, on a lark, he brought out an unsold landscape from ten years, added an AT-AT to the idyllic park scene. It sold before the paint was dry. In the past two weeks, he has sold out of his old paintings by adding Star Wars characters. Now he gets landscape commissions. Small changes make big differences.
I also was born in 1957, so the Monkees were aimed directly at me and my classmates. But I wasn’t allowed to watch the TV show; my dad forbade it because it was ‘long-haired rock n roll”, or so he said. I think the real reason he didn’t allow my sister or I to watch it was because it was idiotic.
Stewart’s solo work apart from the one album, Bombs Away Dream Baby, was not particularly commercial- far more folk music oriented. It isn’t an accident that the one commercially successful album was a work he did with Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks. I actually owned the LP above as a teenager. I have listened to pretty much every solo work of his you can find on Youtube. I like most of it, but I can see why it didn’t sell many records and recordings. Very, very niche.
In fact, Stewart himself disowned the song, “Gold”, his most successful single recording, for its cynicism about the music business- something I have always found to be very odd.
Open Thread – Off Topic?
Bruce “Caitlyn” Jenner Tells CNN’s Audience: I’m Only “Kind of On the Republican Side”
—Ace
ace.mu.nu
Indigo Red:
The word change probably ended up being irrelevant as an explanation of why the song became popular when done by the Monkees. Actually, the entire feel of the song changed and became more upbeat and perky – the tempo, the style, the instrumentation.
For the curious, here’s a rendition of the song by Stewart. I think it’s clear that his version wasn’t Top 10 material:
Well, the hits just keep coming, don’t they? Take this pipeline shutdown, now. I decided to take the car and fuel up earlier today just in case something happens with the fuel supplies up this way in eastern NY – perhaps unlikely, but I would have had to top off tomorrow anyway. Regular unleaded at my usual station is $2.97 today, which is not terrible, all things considered. There was no line as yet, and perhaps there won’t be one at all.
I’m somewhat curious to see whether the gas-station panic purchases will trickle up from down South at all. New York is the northernmost state included in this emergency regulatory abatement.
Anyone else seeing any effects?
There were 3 performers who had a huge fan base in AZ during the early 70s. The first was Bruce Springsteen who played to sold out crowds before the Newsweek/Time covers – and the Born to Run album – brought him world wide fame. The second was John Stewart. His Phoenix Concerts album is one of his best. Although anything before that album is great as well. His wife Buffy Ford (who you can hear in the interview) has come out with a couple of albums in remembrance of John. Maybe not that great but a very moving tribute to a long successful marriage: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tzdQhP2R3Cw
The third was Jerry Riopelle. He was the best of the three as a performer but never reached a mass audience. Maybe ya just had to be there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oBTJbdnp7e0
Did Creepy Joe the Cloth Head just tip the environmental watermelons that cyber attacks on fossil fuel infrastructure (pipelines et al.) are a private sector concern; ransom ware payouts are not a federal policy matter? A new funding mechanism (extortion) for radical greenies, those not yet connected to Soros/Kerry? The path to Buy Large Mansions just got wider.
Back in 2017 or 2018 I saw Mickey Dolenz at B.B. King’s (which sadly is no longer around) in Times Square and it was a lot of fun. Not to make fun of him but he really packed the pounds on! He came across like a really nice guy.
I didn’t know it was Stewart until reading this post*, but “Gold” is a great pop song in that it is an exposition of the pop music industry while simultaneously being a decent pop song on its own merits.
One small nit, I always thought the lyric should be, “turnin’ vinyl into gold,” rather than, “turnin’ music into gold.” Vinyl is nearly a worthless material yet grooves imparted through soundwaves can turn it into something priceless. Music is ephemeral and can be priceless on its own, without any transformation.
*For some reason I thought it was Roxy Music.
Eva Marie,
Pop music tastes were much more regional prior to the ’80s (maybe cable and MTV democratized it?). The top 40 was the top 40, and teens nationwide would likely recognize any of the songs on any week’s top 40 list, but the amount of airplay differed by city and region and airplay for acts under the “top 40” radar differed quite a bit. Chicago, where I lived, seemed to always feature horn based bands prominently. Cheap Trick and REO Speedwagon got a lot of airplay. Detroit was more of a hard working sound; Seger, Mitch Ryder, Nugent… The Southeast had Skynyrd, Little Feat, Marshall Tucker… Philly, NY, L.A., St. Louis, Memphis, Denver, the southwest, northwest… You could hear a regional flavor driving around, listening to the radio. I don’t notice that at all now with pop music, but I still do notice it on regional “classic” rock stations.
I am fascinated by the topic of art and the financial impact it can have on its creator. In this video Stewart implies the song, “Daydream Believer” kept him alive. It appears to have generated enough revenue for him over a long enough span to provide steady income.
Yet we hear of performers and artists who have had more hits who go broke. I know some of that is due to poor money management, but I also think how royalties and rights are paid differ. I’ve never seen a good source that explains the accounting. I think it’s almost always better to be a song’s creator than the performer who makes it a hit. I hear that’s what spurred Jagger and Richards to begin writing their own songs. I know radio stations have to report airplay and pay royalties to the owners of songs (often catalogs who buy the rights to thousands of songs), but if ZZ Topp covers, “Hoochie Coochie Man” in a live, stage show do they have to pay Willie Dixon’s estate? That doesn’t seem likely, since every night in this country there are thousands of bands playing covers at thousands of venues. I know my band pays royalties when we buy sheet music, but we don’t pay when we play covers at performances.
It seems to me that, financially it’s better to be a composer than a performer. Berlin, the Gershwins, Porter… they all seemed to do well, income wise. Elton John’s collaborator, Bernie Taupin, is extremely wealthy, while Elton has declared bankruptcy (I believe) at least once.
If anyone knows of a book or resource that explains how this works I would appreciate a recommendation. Thanks!
Rufus T. Firefly:
Good question. I don’t know the answer.
Some performers are poor because of poor money management, as you say. But that can take many forms. One is huge and costly drug problems. Another is buying tons of stuff, like expensive cars galore. Another has to do with (at least this was true in the olden days) thinking that the checks they were given was money they could keep and spend and not realizing that some of their professional expenses (like travel) would then come out of that money. There’s an interview where the Bee Gees explain that that happened to them early in their careers when they were just teenagers, and they learned the hard way that all that money coming in wasn’t really theirs. So most artists need someone good to help manage the money, especially if they’re young. That also leaves them vulnerable to exploiters – even if the artist is of mature years. That happened to Leonard Cohen – a trusted manager basically took Cohen’s money while he was in the monastery, and that’s why Cohen ended up going on the road in his old age. Also, especially in the olden days, young people desperate to get into the business signed contracts where they only got a tiny percentage of the take. And there’s probably plenty more.
neo,
I read John Oates’ (of Hall and Oates) autobiography (pretty good book, by the way) and he goes into the details of their near complete financial ruin and how they very successfully climbed back up the financial ladder. It’s what you describe; their contract with the record company meant they (the group) were basically funding a business entity that the record company owned. Hall and Oates were so busy writing, recording and performing (and partying and womanizing and…) that they didn’t bother to pay attention to how things were structured. When his accountant notified him that he was very nearly penniless John Oates decided to get some help and learn how it all worked. He and Darryl Oates also worked to buy back the rights to most of their music.
neo,
Sports is a different business, but probably similar regarding your explanation of Leonard Cohen. Also, like artists, most athletes are mainly interested in performing, not managing a business, even though they become brands that can be worth millions. And, like a lot of artists, most athletes that make it big, make it big when they are young.
This documentary, http://www.espn.com/30for30/film/_/page/broke
“Broke” interviews quite a few very famous athletes who made A LOT of money, but lost most or all of it. What is particularly sad is many are exploited by family, including their parents.
wendybar
David McGowan’s points out that many of the “hippie” musicians that lived in Laurel Canyon in the 1960s came from family backgrounds connected to the military-intelligence community. Stephen Stills was the son of a career military, and spent part of his childhood in Central America as a result of his father’s being stationed there. Jim Morrison’s father was an Admiral. David Crosby was the son of an Annapolis graduate and WW2 military intelligence officer- and from a family that could be considered belonging to America’s aristocracy. Frank Zappa’s father worked in CBW at Edgewood Arsenal. And so forth,
The author’s hypothesis is that the hidden push behind the Laurel Canyon hippie musicians was to depoliticize and thus defang the youth movement. Maybe so.
However, the author falls flat on his face in trying to link Peter Tork’s father to the military-intelligence community, on par with an Admiral or military intelligence or CBW connections.
From the book.
Yes, but even though it was WW2, Peter Tork’s father wasn’t in DC as part of the military when Peter was born in 1942, but as a civil servant in the Department of Agriculture and the Budget Bureau.
Halsten John Thorkelson Obituary (2003)
Peter Tork’s father’s military service was like that of millions of others- no military career nor any intelligence connections. Peter Tork’s father went on to become an Economics Professor at the University of Connecticut.
From the book
There is a simple explanation for Peter Tork’s being in Venezuela: his father spent a sabbatical year in Venezuela, and Peter went along for the ride.
His father’s obituary ends with this note.
Someone who wants to have contributions made to an obscure Marxist Libarary, hardly fits the military-intelligence template that David McGowan wants to fit on the fathers of the Laurel Canyon hippie musicians.
Thanks for the Stewart version Neo.
There’s that somewhat classic folk music style. The lyrics are so very important to them that they enunciate every word so clearly. Though Stewart gives the chorus the more modern amped up treatment, extending to added voices near the end.
The lyrics are actually very different between Stewart and The Monkeys, if anyone is interested.
The Monkeys
John Stewart
This variation is from the first stanza:
Monkeys
My shavin’ razor’s cold and it stings
Stewart
My shavin’ razor’s old and it stinks
At the end Stewart calls his “hero” a “daydream deceiver.”
Philip Sells, North Carolina has gone insane over the gas shortage. My husband filled up his truck early this morning without a line, but they were already out of premium. I have a half-tank which should be enough for the next week around town. I was out running errands in the middle of the day. Long lines at gas stations are everywhere, and many stations simply have none. Plus, on the possibility that trucking will be disrupted, there’s something of a run at grocery stores. I went over myself to buy a few essentials just in case. It’s back to the 1970s.
If you’re a performer and you’re smart and you can get away with it (a la Barbara Streisand) you ask to share songwriting credit.
Kate, yes, I was thinking about that aspect of grocery panics as a knock-on effect. Do you think this will drive (pun!) urban folks out to the more outlying areas in search of gas? Or the other way around? Which of those two is more likely?
And then in Michigan, they may soon have the Line 5 closure to contend with. At least that’s not threatened for winter, though I suppose if the governor goes through with it, the lawsuits could last that long.
Dakota Access revoked again, Line 5 threatened, now the Colonial sabotage… it’s a full-court press, for sure. Energy bills this winter could get interesting.
There is a gas shortage at the “pumps.” This problem is a gas “distribution” problem though. There is no gas shortage at the refineries. Motiva in Port Arthur, Tx shut down 2 units because they have no where to store the gas. All storage tanks are full of gas and cannot move the product.
1. ongoing lack of qualified truck drivers for distribution.
2. now with the Colonial pipeline down for distribution.
Lamar Institute Technology in Beaumont Tx is pumping out certified truck drivers specializing in gas trucks as fast as they can. Some of these truck drivers are getting as much as $14,000 sign on bonus.
This is pitiful.
Philip Sells, I LIVE in an outlying area. Rural or urban, stations are out of gas. Everyone is panic buying. Once the supply lines re-start, I should be able to fill up since everybody else bought enough gas for two weeks today.
jack, yes, of course there’s lots of gas, just not where consumers can get it. Our governor declared an emergency to relax restrictions on over-road transport, but you’ve got to have the long-haul trucks and truckers. Those don’t instantly appear.
Songwriting is where the money is in pop music. Performers are *not* guaranteed royalties for any recorded performances though the biggest stars might be able to negotiate it but songwriters are. Of course in some (many?) cases songwriters are screwed out of their royalties in some shady business deal (music business shady? Shocked, shocked!!) but in principle they are entitled. You get royalties from record sales, radio play, jukebox play and sheet music. If you write a handful of well-remembered songs you are probably set for life.
Furthermore I consider songwriting to be the key element of pop music and the most difficult to achieve, much more than playing an instrument or even singing. Once you are talented with performing you have it for life until you age out or blow it e. g. with substance abuse. That is why the Beatles, for example. There were many who could play or sing as well and some better. But almost no one churned out the incredible number of tuneful engaging pop songs they generated in the 60s. Some others had comparable quality – Brian Wilson and Smokey Robinson come to mind – but not the quantity.
The same is true even going back to the “standards” era. There is an image of an army of songwriters scribbling away in NYC cubbyholes. But a large proportion of the most enduring songs from that era were written by comparative few – Richard Rodgers, Cole Porter, the Gershwins, Harold Arlen, Jerome Kern.
Re gas shortages: Thanks, Biden! Somehow going back to the future isn’t as much fun for the 70s as it is for the 50s.
Gringo, that is interesting about Peter Tork’s father. It actually sounded typical of millions of middle-class postwar families until you got to the Marxist library.
Also a reminder, don’t believe everything you read. As another songwriting team (Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong) said in “I Heard It Through the Grapevine”
“People say believe half of what you see
And none of what you hear”
I was a teen-age Monkees fan, and loved their rendition of the song, but I think I like Stewart’s better. It fits the “suburban trilogy” that he said he wrote, and the lyrics (especially the original) match that theme and mood; the pop kids were a hit mostly for youth, verve, and harmony. I never did think the song “story” made any sense the way they sang it.
Side story on songwriting, copyright, and royalties.
I’m working on an arrangement of “O Sole Mio” for ukulele (recital coming up and that caught my fancy). In the course of looking for an “authentic” version (the closest was Schirmer’s publication in 1905, only a few years after it was written in 1898), I discovered that the man credited for writing the song – Eduardo diCapua* – was significantly aided by another man, who everyone thought was just writing down what diCapua composed.
No one really knew that until his heirs asserted copyright claims against people who thought that it was in the public domain, as diCapua had died early in the 20th century, and a judge in Italy agreed with them in 2004.
Mark Steyn tells the history of the song, including the derivative versions written for the 20th century singers Tony Martin and Elvis, and adds this footnote at the end:
https://www.steynonline.com/music/8150/o-sole-mio
“Signor Mazzucchi lived into his nineties and didn’t expire until 1972.
Which means that under British and European law “O Sole Mio” is now in copyright until 2042.”
*Not to be confused with the “unrecognizable” Leonardo di Caprio.
https://notthebee.com/article/the-ny-post-said-leonardo-dicaprio-was-unrecognizable-in-his-new-movie-when-he-was-super-easy-to-identify-they-then-got-trolled-into-oblivion
As for “borrowing” among friends –
31 (modern rock & pop) Songs That Are Based On Classical Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA-tkCRwNVM
Yes a lot of music is borrowed or, ahem, recycled. As the saying goes there are only twelve notes (at least in Western music).