I guess most of the money’s in those lower strings:
Comments
Open thread 5/8/21 — 30 Comments
I actually preferred the $180,000 one of the three. The million dollar one, surprisingly, had very “nasal-y” higher notes that I didn’t like at all.
At the same time, that cello STILL costs more than my house, so…
I see what you mean about the low notes. Still, it’s hard for me to distinguish among cellos. On a piano, it’s definitely the resonance of the low notes that makes for the biggest charm of the ones with stratospheric prices.
Given the inflation we’re experiencing, I wonder if those cellos still cost what she told us they cost? Do they increase in price (or value) as fast as chicken?
Timbre doesn’t come cheap. Can say with certainty that it doesn’t get out of bed for 5K. Likely a cellist given time and familiarity could learn to play to the weaknesses of the 180K job and come near to the 1M — plenty to work with unlike the harsh brittle 5K. But there would always be that little doubt — especially in solo and chamber music.
Transporting rare stringed instruments must be sheer nervous torture.
I wish I could have done a blind test because I liked the sound of the million dollar cello and wonder if it’s the money that’s talking. I heard more depth in its sound. There was close to a “wood” (sorry, can’t describe it any better) sound I would hear in a live concert by a string quarter.
@F:
Rolex and Patek prices have been going nuts last year plus. Combination of inflation and less vacation travel -> money looking for places to go.
For sure same will be true for these instruments. There will be some dodges involved. Some could be ‘donations’ to exceptional students with tax benefits for benefactor. As with high end art dealing you don’t get to be in this kind of trade if you don’t schmooze and have gonnections.
@Les:
1M buys you a Steinway concert grand of a cello; it can sing softly or loudly across its full range without a stumble. It handles a good thrashing with aplomb. For good thrashing see (err hear) Jacqueline du Pré taking Hayden’s Cello Concerto No.1 out behind the woodshed with Barenboim. The 180K one would slip right past me in most chamber music performances if wasn’t forewarned that it was a Cheapo Cello.
Here is a rare clip of Pablo Casals performing Bach’s Suite No.1 for Cello in 1954, the occasion being a postwar Bach festival. According to the voiceover introduction (in French; no cc, unfortunately), Casals was playing inside a Benedictine monastery in southwestern France, the Abbaye Saint-Michel-de-Cuxa. The cello’s identity in this clip is not given– although it is known that Casals owned several cellos made by Italian luthiers during Bach’s lifetime, one made by Matteo Goffriller around 1700, and another made by Carlo Tononi in 1730.
I hesitate to ask, but in view of Neo’s question that started the open thread, can anyone guesstimate the cost of Casal’s cellos in today’s prices?
I could tell a difference from the first to the second immediately, also from the second to the third. I preferred the second. If I were to be given one, I would be thrilled with the first and cheapest. I always wanted to play cello and I could never afford one.
I’d like to see this done with Fender Stratocasters: a $150 Squier, a $800 made in Mexico Fender, a $1,500 made in California Fender, and a real vintage 1962 Strat that’s worth five or six figures.
FWIW, Henry Ford owned about a half dozen Cremona violins, including a couple of Stradivarii, that he used to play fiddle music. The tiger-stripped maple on the back of the Strads is unreal.
“I wish I could have done a blind test because I liked the sound of the million dollar cello and wonder if it’s the money that’s talking.” – Les
Indeed.
It’s sometimes amazing what blind tests reveal.
My favorite is the contest “The Judgment of Paris” (French-judged, although sponsored by a Brit at the suggestion of his yank employee) that ended with the top-rated wines being the ones from California.
Mortified protests ensued.
“Long after the result, French winemakers still claimed French wines were superior, arguing California wines would not “age” well. So in 2006, another blind tasting was held of the original vintages. The result? California wines won again”
Sacré bleu!
Thank you, Neo, for this posting.
I am a former cellist whose finger deformities, though mild, no longer allow proper finger spans in the various positions. My cello, made in Austria in the 1760s, and inherited from my father, who never played it in my childhood, had a “wolf” in 1st position C string, a serious defect. But I sold it for $25K a few years ago.
The box of the cello is an amplifier, and the nature of its wood determines its resonance. No new cello will sound as good as one identically made but older.
The tonal range of a cello is amazing.
The distinction between the $180K and $1 mill cellos is subtle, and cannot be accurately determined by the opening of Bach’s Suite #1. Need to hear more, especially with a computer for ears!
BTW, Casals unearthed the six Bach Sonatas for Unaccompanied Cello around 1900, and popularized them by his frequent playings. I have them by several cellists, my favorite being Janos Starker, who, unlike money grubbers like YoYo Ma, took a teaching position at U Indiana, where he taught for decades, and re-recorded the Suites several times. With differences in phrasings and emphasis and speed. Ma has done the same.
For the etymologically inclined.
I always learn something when I remember to “check twice, post once.”
My sister is cellist and had a “wolf” in her cello in high school. I don’t remember the details except that it was a big deal. She still plays, local orchestra and quartette gigs at weddings and such.
But this is all a distraction; where is the Jello, Neo! 🙂
AesopFan:
The were thinking “zut alors” after the second wine test. 🙂
Cicero:
You may or may not recall this post about my own experiences playing the cello, but you might enjoy looking at it.
om:
Well, at least it rhymes with jello.
A mellow yellow Jello fellow –
hello, Cuello!
I put out my hummingbird feeder and got my first confirmed visit this morning.
Would have been far more interesting if the cello test was double-blind because the cellist was most likely influenced in how she played the music, even though she probably did her best not to have her playing influenced by $$$ signs.
If you “know” the “right” answer beforehand, there is a good chance you will find a way to arrive at that answer. One’s preconceived notions about how things should be determine to a great extent the result you’ll find.
I used to read reviews on high-end racing bikes – the 10 to 12 geared ones with pedals and no motors – and every reviewer knew the brand and it’s price before he got on the bike to assess it’s ride characteristics.
There is no way on earth that the reviewer was not influenced by these two facts.
It would have been really interesting to have one of those $8,000 to $10,000 racing bikes have the name “Walmart” or “K-Mart” (instead of some very well regarded, hi-end brand name) splattered all over the bike prior to a reviewer’s test ride and then hear his review.
Ditto for hi-end speaker cables.
An interesting book that sort of talks of these things is “Fooled By Randomness,” by Nassim Taleb (of “The Black Swan” fame).
John Tyler – yes, I felt that something like that could well have been going on, too. The awkward way she chose to strike some notes on the first instrument, and then by the time she got to the third, those sounded much smoother – I thought it telling.
But the cellos look very different, so unless she was blindfolded she would have known which was which simply by sight. My guess is that they probably feel different too, so even blindfolding her might not have mattered.
This magisterial Biden Trashing might interest some:
Just the thing for a man of taste and refinement, so hope there’s a pirate copy out there in Internet Land.
Neo: 11 years ago, but on reading it again today I really appreciate your remarks and observations.
Yes I watched the film in theatre and on HBO back in the 80’s. It was a fun watch. I didn’t regret the two hours I spent on it.
According to Lee Smith, FICUS continues Obamunist Spying on opponents along the Russiagate model. Basically, private snoops are used to create pretexts that the IC can finagle into plausible domestic threats that then require investigating.
The goal is to prevent any Tea Party style or America First movement from organising. This method can Cleary be observed in the investigation of Mayor and Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani. MORE at Epoch Times
Comparing various electric guitars: I have heard told that the real difference in electric guitars is the pickups; these are the coils that pick up the vibrations of the strings, and turn those vibrations into electrical pulses that can be modified and amplified. I am told that two otherwise identical electric guitars, from the same batches of wood and paint, will sound different depending on which person wound the coils.
Eddie Van Halen was a prime demonstrator of this. He treated his guitars very roughly, reportedly throwing them into the back of his pickup to move from studio to house. All that mattered were the pickups.
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I actually preferred the $180,000 one of the three. The million dollar one, surprisingly, had very “nasal-y” higher notes that I didn’t like at all.
At the same time, that cello STILL costs more than my house, so…
I see what you mean about the low notes. Still, it’s hard for me to distinguish among cellos. On a piano, it’s definitely the resonance of the low notes that makes for the biggest charm of the ones with stratospheric prices.
Given the inflation we’re experiencing, I wonder if those cellos still cost what she told us they cost? Do they increase in price (or value) as fast as chicken?
Timbre doesn’t come cheap. Can say with certainty that it doesn’t get out of bed for 5K. Likely a cellist given time and familiarity could learn to play to the weaknesses of the 180K job and come near to the 1M — plenty to work with unlike the harsh brittle 5K. But there would always be that little doubt — especially in solo and chamber music.
Transporting rare stringed instruments must be sheer nervous torture.
I wish I could have done a blind test because I liked the sound of the million dollar cello and wonder if it’s the money that’s talking. I heard more depth in its sound. There was close to a “wood” (sorry, can’t describe it any better) sound I would hear in a live concert by a string quarter.
@F:
Rolex and Patek prices have been going nuts last year plus. Combination of inflation and less vacation travel -> money looking for places to go.
For sure same will be true for these instruments. There will be some dodges involved. Some could be ‘donations’ to exceptional students with tax benefits for benefactor. As with high end art dealing you don’t get to be in this kind of trade if you don’t schmooze and have gonnections.
@Les:
1M buys you a Steinway concert grand of a cello; it can sing softly or loudly across its full range without a stumble. It handles a good thrashing with aplomb. For good thrashing see (err hear) Jacqueline du Pré taking Hayden’s Cello Concerto No.1 out behind the woodshed with Barenboim. The 180K one would slip right past me in most chamber music performances if wasn’t forewarned that it was a Cheapo Cello.
Here is a rare clip of Pablo Casals performing Bach’s Suite No.1 for Cello in 1954, the occasion being a postwar Bach festival. According to the voiceover introduction (in French; no cc, unfortunately), Casals was playing inside a Benedictine monastery in southwestern France, the Abbaye Saint-Michel-de-Cuxa. The cello’s identity in this clip is not given– although it is known that Casals owned several cellos made by Italian luthiers during Bach’s lifetime, one made by Matteo Goffriller around 1700, and another made by Carlo Tononi in 1730.
I hesitate to ask, but in view of Neo’s question that started the open thread, can anyone guesstimate the cost of Casal’s cellos in today’s prices?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcjeZ3o5us&t=82s&ab_channel=twotea22
I could tell a difference from the first to the second immediately, also from the second to the third. I preferred the second. If I were to be given one, I would be thrilled with the first and cheapest. I always wanted to play cello and I could never afford one.
I’d like to see this done with Fender Stratocasters: a $150 Squier, a $800 made in Mexico Fender, a $1,500 made in California Fender, and a real vintage 1962 Strat that’s worth five or six figures.
FWIW, Henry Ford owned about a half dozen Cremona violins, including a couple of Stradivarii, that he used to play fiddle music. The tiger-stripped maple on the back of the Strads is unreal.
“I wish I could have done a blind test because I liked the sound of the million dollar cello and wonder if it’s the money that’s talking.” – Les
Indeed.
It’s sometimes amazing what blind tests reveal.
My favorite is the contest “The Judgment of Paris” (French-judged, although sponsored by a Brit at the suggestion of his yank employee) that ended with the top-rated wines being the ones from California.
Mortified protests ensued.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/abrams/2016/08/31/40-years-later-french-wine-judgment-paris-california-napa-valley/89602248/
“Long after the result, French winemakers still claimed French wines were superior, arguing California wines would not “age” well. So in 2006, another blind tasting was held of the original vintages. The result? California wines won again”
Sacré bleu!
Thank you, Neo, for this posting.
I am a former cellist whose finger deformities, though mild, no longer allow proper finger spans in the various positions. My cello, made in Austria in the 1760s, and inherited from my father, who never played it in my childhood, had a “wolf” in 1st position C string, a serious defect. But I sold it for $25K a few years ago.
The box of the cello is an amplifier, and the nature of its wood determines its resonance. No new cello will sound as good as one identically made but older.
The tonal range of a cello is amazing.
The distinction between the $180K and $1 mill cellos is subtle, and cannot be accurately determined by the opening of Bach’s Suite #1. Need to hear more, especially with a computer for ears!
BTW, Casals unearthed the six Bach Sonatas for Unaccompanied Cello around 1900, and popularized them by his frequent playings. I have them by several cellists, my favorite being Janos Starker, who, unlike money grubbers like YoYo Ma, took a teaching position at U Indiana, where he taught for decades, and re-recorded the Suites several times. With differences in phrasings and emphasis and speed. Ma has done the same.
For the etymologically inclined.
I always learn something when I remember to “check twice, post once.”
https://www.dictionary.com/e/translations/sacre-bleu/
Cicero:
My sister is cellist and had a “wolf” in her cello in high school. I don’t remember the details except that it was a big deal. She still plays, local orchestra and quartette gigs at weddings and such.
But this is all a distraction; where is the Jello, Neo! 🙂
AesopFan:
The were thinking “zut alors” after the second wine test. 🙂
Cicero:
You may or may not recall this post about my own experiences playing the cello, but you might enjoy looking at it.
om:
Well, at least it rhymes with jello.
A mellow yellow Jello fellow –
hello, Cuello!
I put out my hummingbird feeder and got my first confirmed visit this morning.
Would have been far more interesting if the cello test was double-blind because the cellist was most likely influenced in how she played the music, even though she probably did her best not to have her playing influenced by $$$ signs.
If you “know” the “right” answer beforehand, there is a good chance you will find a way to arrive at that answer. One’s preconceived notions about how things should be determine to a great extent the result you’ll find.
I used to read reviews on high-end racing bikes – the 10 to 12 geared ones with pedals and no motors – and every reviewer knew the brand and it’s price before he got on the bike to assess it’s ride characteristics.
There is no way on earth that the reviewer was not influenced by these two facts.
It would have been really interesting to have one of those $8,000 to $10,000 racing bikes have the name “Walmart” or “K-Mart” (instead of some very well regarded, hi-end brand name) splattered all over the bike prior to a reviewer’s test ride and then hear his review.
Ditto for hi-end speaker cables.
An interesting book that sort of talks of these things is “Fooled By Randomness,” by Nassim Taleb (of “The Black Swan” fame).
John Tyler – yes, I felt that something like that could well have been going on, too. The awkward way she chose to strike some notes on the first instrument, and then by the time she got to the third, those sounded much smoother – I thought it telling.
But the cellos look very different, so unless she was blindfolded she would have known which was which simply by sight. My guess is that they probably feel different too, so even blindfolding her might not have mattered.
This magisterial Biden Trashing might interest some:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fd9zQjYaUs
Australian Sky News is a very different beast to the more well-known UK woke version.
Has anyone watched the movie Under the Rainbow with Chevy Chase and Carrie Fisher? Found a link to the trailer on Gab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJnzY4nn57o
Just the thing for a man of taste and refinement, so hope there’s a pirate copy out there in Internet Land.
Neo: 11 years ago, but on reading it again today I really appreciate your remarks and observations.
Yes I watched the film in theatre and on HBO back in the 80’s. It was a fun watch. I didn’t regret the two hours I spent on it.
According to Lee Smith, FICUS continues Obamunist Spying on opponents along the Russiagate model. Basically, private snoops are used to create pretexts that the IC can finagle into plausible domestic threats that then require investigating.
The goal is to prevent any Tea Party style or America First movement from organising. This method can Cleary be observed in the investigation of Mayor and Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani. MORE at Epoch Times
https://archive.is/tZcZt
Neo, not too long ago you did a music article that included the Whitesnake video for “ Here I Go again”. The girl in the video, Tawny Kitaen has died.
CNN story via Free Republic support’s Lee Smith, ABOVE
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3955876/posts
This is hilarious:
https://www.rt.com/news/397724-israeli-stink-bombs-india/
Comparing various electric guitars: I have heard told that the real difference in electric guitars is the pickups; these are the coils that pick up the vibrations of the strings, and turn those vibrations into electrical pulses that can be modified and amplified. I am told that two otherwise identical electric guitars, from the same batches of wood and paint, will sound different depending on which person wound the coils.
Eddie Van Halen was a prime demonstrator of this. He treated his guitars very roughly, reportedly throwing them into the back of his pickup to move from studio to house. All that mattered were the pickups.