Can HR1 pass in the Senate?
Commenter “Bauxite” writes:
Can’t see how they pass HR 1 without nuking the filibuster. There’s no way that 10 Republicans will vote for it. The pressure will be on Manchin and Sinema, though. I’m going to start worrying if there are signs of them cracking.
Ordinarily it’s true that in order to pass HR1 they would have to do away with the filibuster. But I’ve heard chatter that they may try to somehow shove the whole mess into something they call a budget bill and pass it by reconciliation, requiring only a simple majority. Exactly how this could be done I don’t know – clearly, the bill is even less related to the budget than Obamacare was – but I would never underestimate Democrats’ ability to bend the rules in order to consolidate their power, and the Court’s ability to look the other way.
The second method by which the filibuster roadblock could be gotten around might be by executive order. In fact, Biden has already issued an executive order that includes some of the most objectionable parts of HR1. It represents a backup plan, as it were. Whether it would hold up legally I don’t know (in fact, there’s even some doubt as to whether HR1 itself would be upheld by SCOTUS in a challenge). But it might.
Lastly, of course, as Bauxite notes, there’s no reason to trust Joe Manchin or Krysten Sinema to keep their promises about preserving the filibuster. I actually trust Sinema more than I’d trust Manchin. The latter has a history of talking a good line until an important vote actually takes place, and then he virtually always caves. Sinema is a bit more mysterious and unknown to me, and seems to have a somewhat more rebellious spirit.
The determination of the Democrats to accomplish the destruction of American voting integrity is fierce. And voting is nearly the entire ballgame, isn’t it?
“Exactly how this could be done I don’t know – clearly, the bill is even less related to the budget than Obamacare was – but I would never underestimate Democrats’ ability to bend the rules in order to consolidate their power, and the Court’s ability to look the other way.”
The courts would not come into play on that piece of it. Reconciliation is a process related to the rules of the Senate, which are governed solely by the Senate. The constitution is also clear that the legislature has the authority to set rules on federal elections so a constitutional challenge would probably have to be on some very narrow aspect in the legislation.
The more interesting aspect if HR 1 were to pass is how red states react to it. While the federal legislature can set rules on federal elections, the same authority does not extend to state and local elections. Would states rearrange their local elections to be held off-cycle with those for federal office, with different rules? How would Democrats react at the federal level? How long would this last? I mean, all it would take is for a single election where Dems win, for example, control of the political machinery of Texas, to bring the state in line with federal rules, and thereby lock in a Dem political majority in that state for ever more. HR 1 is the whole ball of wax, no doubt about it.
Burton M:
I wasn’t thinking the courts would rule on the reconciliation aspects of HR1, but rather on other aspects of it. Perhaps I didn’t make that clear, though.
I’m not sure we looked at all the possibilities here:
1. HR 1 could pass the Senate on its own with a majority vote, no filibuster.
2. HR 1 could pass the Senate on its own, with a filibuster defeated and then a majority vote.
3. HR 1 could pass the Senate through reconciliation or attached to something else with a majority vote.
Whichever of these three happen, I trust we will be very closely watching to see how many R’s go along. I am pretty far from confident that the number is 0.
It will pass. The totalitarians will vote in mass. The filibuster will be “suspended” with a fig leaf towards Sinema and Manchin. Then the real fun and games start. Don’t rely on the courts to help. It will come down to the citizens, the states and their legislatures. The RINO’s know what is at stake. At this point I am optimistic because so many people know and be prepared. With more and more evidence about the election fraud coming out there will be a reaction. Coupled with a suck economy, potential of wars abroad, illegal immigration and drugs with congressional districts re-drawn it is all in flux and up for grabs.
Look at Georgia as the harbinger of what the reaction will be.
The whole ballgame rests on 2022. If vote fraud in 535 elections can prevail, civil war will result. The only way vote fraud can prevail is if something like the Dominion voting machines get used in all state elections.
I have not seen any effort by Dominion to sue the author of “The Deep Rig”
A search of Amazon’s main web site does NOT find that book. The link is from the copy I bought the day before the search was altered. I am about half way through. He goes into the entire history of Dominion. The author suggests that he is rich and probably could afford a good legal defense. Dominion seems to be suing people to scare them, and intimidate them. So far Amazon has not deleted the Kindle book,.
Remember to tell every Biden voter or supporter. “You should be happy. You voted for this.” And if we are in a war add the word “warmonger”. Remove any moral authority to them.
Put it on them and be merciless about it.
“The determination of the Democrats to accomplish the destruction of American voting integrity is fierce. And voting is nearly the entire ballgame, isn’t it?” neo
If the Democrats succeed in the destruction of American voting integrity, they will find it to be a poisoned chalice.
Mike K,
Civil war isn’t a possibility, it’s a near certainty. The Left will not stop nor will it recognize any limits to it’s depravity.
Geoffrey I pray that it does not because we will destroy a lot of civil society. But if it does.,…..
https://ncrenegade.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/leftalone.jpg
This is why I fight now within the confines of civil society.
I believe the Congress’s authority to set rules for federal elections comes from this clause: “The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.” Nothing there about presidential elections. The rules for choosing presidential electors seem to be under the full control of the state legislatures except as limited by constitutional amendments prohibiting discrimination based on race, sex, or age. So it seems (but I’m not a lawyer) that the state legislatures can enact whatever laws are needed to prevent fraud in presidential elections, and the feds can’t do anything about it. Of course that won’t stop state judges, governors, and secretaries of state from simply ignoring the laws of their state.
One way the states could limit the power of Democrat big city machines over presidential elections would be to split their electoral votes as is currently done in Maine and Nebraska. One electoral vote to the winner of each congressional district, and (my improvement on the ME/NE method) two electoral votes to the ticket that wins the most congressional districts, or one each in case of a tie. That way the Democrats could cheat all they wanted in (say) Philadelphia, but they wouldn’t be able to change more than one or two electoral votes.
bof,
I like it.
I am Sparticus,
I fear and deplore the devastation in lives that would result from a civil war as well. A civil war would also result in greatly increased aggression from bad actors around the world and would greatly weaken America.
The problem is that the left is ideologically driven to impose an intolerable tyranny upon us.
As example, the California Board of Education is getting ready to vote on a new curriculum, one course of which requires that children be required to chant prayers to the Aztec ‘god’ of human sacrifice and cannabalism.
https://www.city-journal.org/calif-ethnic-studies-curriculum-accuses-christianity-of-theocide
Some things are worse than war and death because a living death is the deepest torture the soul can endure.
You ask … Can HR1 pass in the Senate?
Simple answer is if Dems want to bad enough they CAN with a few rule changes.
We’ll see soon how bad the Dems want it.
Geoffrey – it is truly sickening that the California Board of Education would pass such abominable legislation. As such I would let them know that a real life demonstration is needed and they would be invited to participate…on the altar. See their ardor wan.
@GB:
When MS-13 says jump, I guess the California Board of Education (sic) jumps.
When the SCotUS upholds the Fraudulection against multiple blatantly legit challenges, don’t assume they are anything but a rubber stamp until they prove they are otherwise.
>:-(
}}} MikeK: so far kindle has not deleted the book.
I would **strongly** suggest you download a conversion utility and make a non-kindle copy which Amazon CAN’T delete off your reader.
Amazon showed they had the power to not only DELETE content without notification, but to ****alter**** it on your kindle without the kindle owner’s knowledge ***AFTER*** purchase…, this power was revealed during the Orwell kerfuffle 10+ years ago.
Yes, you heard that right: You read a particular passage… Come back 6m later looking for that particular passage to quote to soneone and it does say what you recalled AT ALL. “Hmmm. Odd. My memory must be going… I could’ve sworn…!”
Yes, very Orwellian…
Irony? YES.
Again just like the election the Leftists didn’t get this far to be stopped by anything. We are getting to their holiest of grail, immortality
“So it seems (but I’m not a lawyer) that the state legislatures can enact whatever laws are needed to prevent fraud in presidential elections…”
I would very much like to believe that; however (if I have understood Neo correctly from several weeks ago), in the most recent election, the State Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, in order to facilitate fraud (though of course it was rationalized in quite the opposite way), overturned existing state voting laws.
We also saw what happened in PA and other states: illegal activities related to the vote, intimidation and threats of violence to prevent transparency and verification of the vote, etc.
None of which is terribly encouraging, since the Democrats have demonstrated that they will do anything to consolidate their power over the country; and they are backed by the media and the very powerful infotech giants.
I hate to post it yet again, but the voice of reason, of law and order, has been lost to tyranny. St. Thomas Aquinas (ca. 1350) deemed tyranny the worst form of government because it rules by fear alone.
A civil war would be lost by its rebelling protagonists.
Wars need leadership, organization, and coordination. What are we citizens to do without those? Take our 20ga. shotguns, used to kill small birds like quail, and deer rifles, march together in search of the enemy, who surely has more than enough means to kill us, even at the present depleted city police level? Most police in the Southern States would join us, but up North?
You may have noted there is already a severe shortage of ammo for the dreaded “assault weapon”, the AR-15, a very practical and widely owned deer rifle which Feinstein intends to make illegal. Except for the military, of course.