Our gracious CDC overlords are being magnanimous…
…and are allowing “fully vaccinated individuals” (that’s me!!) to do the following:
Americans who have received the full COVID-19 vaccine can gather with vaccinated grandparents or friends without wearing masks or keeping their distance, according to new CDC guidance announced Monday, and those grandparents can visit with and hug family members that aren’t vaccinated as long as they don’t have underlying medical conditions that put them at high risk for COVID-19.
Group hug, folks!
Ah, but not so fast:
But getting the vaccine does not mean you should travel or gather in large groups, according to the CDC…
What about those of us – and there are many – with grandchildren so far away that we must travel in order to see them? I can’t imagine there are many who give a rat’s patootie what the CDC says about that.
A “rat’s patootie” you say!
But right I don’t give a rat’s patootie what CDC, Dr Fauci, WHO, Joe Biden or any others say at this time.
Soon as I can get a few things done … off to Florida! Grand daughter did get married civil service but she has a huge ceremony planned in next couple months.
Other evidence of the “Biden” administration’s “magnanimity”… (and sheer dishonesty).
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-admin-silences-dhs-over-border-crisis-viral-video-shows-flood-migrants-streaming
It even looks like “Biden” is officially pulling a “Cuomo”.
Nation wide.
And it looks like the media will acquiesce. With joy. (And, of course, earnestly.)
DC will remain in lockdown for a long time to come. All that fencing and wire is simply too juicy an “image” to pass up on (and “internal terrorism” too juicy a “threat” not to exploit to the hilt), once again with earnest media assistance.
So how long will it take before America is finally “transformed”?
Due to recovery from COVID I’ve been “vaccinated” since August. My wife is now about three weeks past her second shot. We were recently somewhere outdoors, nowhere near anyone, where masks are required and she was griping, “I have the anti-bodies. Why do I have to do this?” I laughed and said, “Now you know how I have felt for the last six months!”
Sure, I suppose in some odd fluke of bizarre circumstances someone with the anti-bodies could transmit COVID to someone without anti-bodies, and in some other amazing set of coincidences and statistical anomalies that dose could be fatal. But I suppose the dog I just petted could have a flea on it that has recently contracted bubonic plague.
No one cares about statistics, facts, data… It’s all arbitrary rules to convey a false sense of safety.
I suppose the CDC believes that someone is still paying attention to what they say.
My medical advisors do urge mask wearing when around anyone who is not vaccinated, so as to protect others, because it is possible for you to still be contagious. I am not sure how long that condition would persist, but presumably if you were exposed to the virus you could transmit it, even though your own immune system would fight it off.
One could find it humorous whenever they are told to ‘follow the science’. Sadly, reminiscent of the old chestnut, ‘follow the bouncing ball’. You could tie yourself into knots trying to follow the science in your every day life.
The three most significant things any of us could have done since February, 2020:
1. If you don’t feel well stay home and away from people. Do not violate this rule.
2. Even if you feel alright, do your best to not be in crowded areas and avoid getting closer than six feet to anyone other than the folks you live with.
3. If you have to be in a crowded area, wear a mask. But don’t even thing about rules 2 and 3 if you don’t pass rule #1.
Then, there is a list of co-morbidities and increased risks and suggestions for folks who fit in those categories.
Rufus, I referred to medical advisors above. One of them had the virus. Although her case would probably be categorized as mild, she is still experiencing cardio after effects some months later.
But, the point is that she tells me that the protection afforded by antibodies only lasts about four months. Previous infection does not trump (no pun) the shots.
She is deeply involved on the medical side of this thing; and I believe that she knows what she is talking about.
Oldflyer:
I’m not sure where she gets her medical information, but they actually just don’t know how long protection lasts, although all indications are that it’s certainly longer than 4 months.
They’ll backtrack on this by tomorrow.
If this had not been so ridiculously covered in our age of social media hysteria most people would have never known what was going on.
And don’t throw a bunch a stats out because every statistic on this has been totally corrupted for political reasons and are pretty much meaningless at this point.
Believe who you choose, Neo. There are plenty of sources of information. Often conflicting.
But for common sense purposes, I believe my source who is working with COVID patients and gets face to face briefings on a consistent basis from the Epidemiologists who are managing the effort in the largest county in the country. Since they also have one of the largest number of cases—thanks to cross border traffic and sanctuary cities, in my opinion—they have access to plenty of unfiltered data.
She is told that testing has shown that the level of antibodies erodes significantly, and protection cannot be assured after a few months. Four was the number cited. I think that anyone who counts on long term immunity is making a mistake.
A few years ago, there was a lot of talk about measles and the recommendation was to get the MMR shot, especially if you were of the age where you only got one dose and not the two-dose vaccine. According to my medical records, I had the real thing before first grade. I opted to have my blood tested and I am at the very high end of immunity. My sister, who would have also had the measles at the same time, was tested when she was pregnant and did not have any immunity. Genetics??
I read an article that looked at levels of MMR immunity and C-19 with stronger MMR immunity resulting in limited symptoms. Hmm… four months ago, I had something – couple days of fever and then days of cough. So, I just got my blood drawn for the antibody test. It will be interesting to see what the results are, since that will determine if I get the shot. The tech told me that a lot of people are getting the antibody test to check post vaccine status. She is hesitant about getting the shot based on comments of people she is testing.
BTW – the CDC states that “full immunity” is two weeks after you get the 2-shot vaccine. But, the two weeks is also the criteria for the one-shot vaccine.
Cancel Dr. Fauci.
Dr Ted has a new video on masks where he emphasizes the important point about mask efficacy and leaks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JucNMs29siU.
Getting my second vaccination next week, but the CDC has no influence on me at all. Since the beginning I’ve been treating this like a bad flu outbreak. Stay away from anyone feeling bad, wash hands, etc. We’ve had our family over since the beginning…we trust them and they trust us: BiL, SiL, daughters and their boyfriends. No masks in our house.
As cases have dropped off a cliff, we’ve started living a more normal life: we went to a family wedding in NC, and visited close friends in SC in late January. 5 days ago returned from a week trip to Florida, and yes we flew. Visited our daughter, and spent 3 days among the crowds at Disney. Despite their saying park at 35% capacity looked like more close to 80%…people are desperate for normalcy. Then 4 days motoring around Jacksonville area looking at real estate. Eating out in restaurants the entire trip.
I assume many people will claim I’ve just been extremely lucky with my reckless behavior, but I’ve been following the data for over a year now. The April and July surges in 2020 were real. I’m not convinced the late fall huge surge was as big as the numbers show due to the misuse of the PCR test for detecting both people with the virus and labeling deaths from the virus. The data on serious cases shows that after April, the medical community learned a tremendous amount about treatment. Serious cases now at 0.13% compared to 3% last April. We have a close friend with serious COPD and other issues. He got the virus a month ago. He was in the hospital for 3 days and never in ICU; released and is recovering nicely at home.
I wonder in 10 years time if we will ever learn the truth about this past Annus horribilis?
I have no problem wearing a mask in any place of business that requires it.
I work in a hospital and received my vaccine back in December. And of course I wear a mask at work and sanitize my hands constantly.
But what gets me is when I’m out hiking on a forest trail and I see people coming towards me wearing masks. Or when I see someone in their car, by themselves, wearing a mask.
Quite frankly, I think it is a form of virtue signalling.
Homeric:
Some people aren’t virtue signaling, they’re frightened.
As for masks alone in the car – the other day, for example, I was at a doctor’s office and then was about to stop off at a store. Masks were required in both places. They were about a five-minute drive from each other. It would be more of a pain to take the mask off in the car, figure out where to put it so it stays clean, and then put it on again than to just leave it on in the car. People doing errands often have that reason for leaving a mask on while alone in the car.
Scott Atlas ‘The Last Word’
https://stanfordreview.org/scott-atlas-the-last-word/
California experts, well some can be trusted and some cannot. If you are part of the medical/government system in California why would anyone trust you by now?
Neo, you are obviously correct. It is never “everyone”.
I am so used to putting on and then taking off my mask during the day whenever I go outside that it doesn’t seem a big deal.
I take the mask off as soon as I am a foot out the door of any establishment, and won’t put it on until I’m walking in the door. My own very small act of defiance. If I thought the business wouldn’t get in trouble from the government I wouldn’t wear it at all. These businesses have suffered enough without me causing them more trouble. I openly laugh at people wearing them outside.
The masks are purely theater for those of us who do not linger in indoor spaces with lots of people. I can shop in the supermarket while remaining mostly six feet or more from other people, keep up the hand washing and general hygiene, and believe my risk level is quite low.
I have been wearing the same disposable mask for months, only put it on in the supermarket or picking up takeout at a restaurant or doctor office. Its only value to me is to comply with regulations, even using a new mask each time would give only the tiniest extra protection.
Staying away from others in enclosed spaces is sufficient to avoid the disease. At home, in the car, and in the large amount of time I am outside, no mask. A nearby town requires masks at all times, I gladly defy that on their completely uncrowded sidewalks, because I make sure to stay out of other peoples’ way.
physicguy…Shame on you for exposing your daughter to anything Disney. Even without Covid that’s a dangerous liberal environment
The top leadership at the CDC should be tried for mass murder.
You may not be interested in the CDC, but the CDC is interested in You.
And you don’t need an extra hole in the head to figure out where that ends up.
With one extra twist: Your Bank is Interested in You (ask Andrew Torba). Your credit card providers are Interested in You. A whole bunch of big companies you interact with every day are interested in you and your politics and your compliance with a whole bunch of Laws which are not to be found in any statute books. Don’t believe me? Open a Twitter account and exercise some free speech just a bit too much and you’ll soon know when you can’t pay your bills and are left holding a bank draft from your closed out account and can’t find anywhere which will allow you to open a new account.
So how long before your vaccination status affects whether or not these entities will do business with you? Unconstitutional? Of course it is. As the Germans say: na und?
The CDC has destroyed all of it’s credibility as a non-partisan institution.
Apparently, the CDC recently reported evidence that the use of masks has no significant effect in preventing the spread of COVID-19, but then went on to say that they still recommend their use.
Still waiting for that kid who says that the king is naked… but, I suppose he doesn’t work at the CDC.
“It would be more of a pain to take the mask off in the car, figure out where to put it so it stays clean, and then put it on again than to just leave it on in the car” – Neo
I slip the ear-loops of the mask over the turn-signal lever (thus sunning and airing the mask), which makes it easy to slide back onto my left wrist when exiting the car. Generally have only one in the car for the whole week (don’t go out that much), and a couple in pockets of the most commonly worn coats (that will be a problem later, but by summer we should be DONE with this inanity).
Like many here, I put it on at the last second possible, and off at the first second advisable.
And Trump was right: we could have opened everything last Easter.
We all are suffering for Cuomo’s serial murders in the nursing homes.
“are left holding a bank draft from your closed out account and can’t find anywhere which will allow you to open a new account.” – Zaphod
We have long had bank accounts at different institutions from different states, for good reasons at the time, and never closed them.
I plan to open a few more locally, and also send more money to the kids to “hold” until we or they need it.
Sometimes it’s nice being an old retired paranoiac.
Yep, I’m like physicsguy I make a point of taking the mask off or at least pulling it down the second I leave a business and almost always have in my hand until the last minute before entering.
Sorry if it offends anybody but when I see these people outside far from anyone or in the car alone it just tells me that they are not someone I would be interested in knowing. Harsh, maybe but it says something about them and it’s not usually good.
I’ve also only had three masks the whole year. One I got very early and wore occasionally until the manatees started here in July then a second nicer one for more formal events and now a third I’ve been wearing since December.
It’s all theater anyway and I’m not playing along any more than I have to.
Ha ha! I meant mandates not manatees they have not made it here yet.
If you are wearing anything other than an N-95 mask, you are participating in Covid Theater.
Don’t kid yourself that you are doing anything else.
@Griffin:
You may not be interested in Manatees….
But don’t go giving them ideas.
If things go on like this for another decade, we’ll lose our social credit scores unless we can document copulation with a juvenile manatee of the same sex at least twice per calendar year. There’ll be an App for That.
Under the head, “The CDC Has Less Power Than You Think”, TIME mag (!!) wrote in 2014, and I cite part of it:
“The federal government does have its own powers. The CDC, as the U.S.’s primary agency for taking action to stop the spread of disease, has broad authority under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution to restrict travel into the country and between states of an infected person or a person who has come in contact with an infected person, according to Laura Donohue, director of the Center on National Security and the Law at Georgetown Law School. Federal quarantine can be imposed, too, on federal property, like a military base or National Forest land. And as the preeminent employer of experts on public health crises, the CDC is always likely to get involved within any affected state in the event of a looming pandemic.
But its power to act is extremely restricted. The agency traditionally acts in an advisory role and can only take control from local authorities under two circumstances: if local authorities invite them to do so or under the authority outlined in the Insurrection Act in the event of a total breakdown of law and order.”
The CDC also has no troops with which to enforce its authority. The Commerce Clause clearly does not apply to an in-state family gathering or party or anything similar.
But Xiden is just the guy to be told by handlers to invoke the Insurrection Act. Dems drool at the prospect.
Oldflyer @3:31pm,
How long does your medical advisor friend think the antibodies from the vaccine will last? Is she advising you get vaccinated every 3 months?
This is the only study I know of with COVID survivors beyond 3 months, which makes sense since it’s such a new disease.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/537173-coronavirus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-6
Oldflyer @4:26pm,
I got COVID when I had no anti-bodies. A week of fever, chills, sweating. Lost some weight. From symptom onset to full recovery was 3 weeks. Similar to some of the bad flus I’ve had. My O2 levels never dropped below about 92%. I was very fortunate that my body’s reaction was sufficient to keep it from compromising my lungs and breathing. So I have a pretty reliable test case (me, my own body) regarding how COVID affects my body. Since then I have had some amount of anti-bodies in my system. I have felt very healthy since then, actually better than I had prior due to dropping some unneeded pounds). Are all my anti-bodies gone? Unlikely. Would my immune system react slower, or worse next time, than it did the first time? Unlikely. Based on numbers we saw in January and how out and about I was then, there is a very good chance I have been exposed to the virus since my recovery last year.
I know there are mutations. I know some small percentage of people have already gotten it twice. But I have also had two cousins die from regular, seasonal flu (both were under the age of 40). Based on my personal experience with COVID I don’t see my current, personal risk beyond that of my risk of dying from influenza (barring some new, bad, mutant strain of COVID). I’m cautious, I avoid getting close to strangers; for their sake and mine. I wash my hands after touching things that have been touched by others.
If your medical friend knew my history, how I live my life (lots of exercise, fresh air, walk 3 – 5 miles most days to buy groceries {I have a car, but I like to walk for fun} {half that walk is done carrying groceries}, no co-morbidities… I doubt she’d advise that I cower inside or avoid human interaction as long as I keep a safe distance and wash my hands.
And this is not an attack on you, nor the decisions you are making, nor a suggestion that we don’t listen to health experts we trust. As an aside, I recently had lunch with my physician (who is also a friend). He has been rather conservative regarding this pandemic, and tends to side towards studies that warrant more caution, rather than less, but he did tell me he believes we will learn that most people’s anti-bodies will be shown to last a long time, once we get far enough out from the pandemic’s onset.
physicsguy,
The Mrs. and I will be motoring around the Jacksonville area looking at real estate next week.
As you learned on your recent trip, “It’s a small world, after all!”
Oldflyer,
What you are being told by the “experts” is technically true, but it’s what they are keeping from you that is more relevant. Circulating antibodies to a pathogen always decrease over time without repeated exposure to it. It’s the T-cell immunity that remains that is important. I haven’t seen anything published anywhere that your T-cell immunity goes back to being naive after exposure to covid. If the T-cell memory remains, antibody production can be ramped up if needed.
I suspect most medical researchers are not interested in publishing anything that shows evidence long-term immunity to covid. I suspect most doctors are not interested in knowing anything more than the fact that circulating antibodies to covid decrease after a few months. Most doctors WANT the virus to continue forever, they like the lockdowns, and like the platform they are given.
Much like those who publish on “climate change”, the only predetermined conclusion the medical community will allow to be published is that there is no way to fight off the virus and immunity can never be achieved. Any contrary view or research to that will not be published, and anyone who doubts the predetermined conclusion will be called a “covid denier”.
90% of doctors are pro-covid and pro-masking and pro-lockdowns. They love the life they are living now, what with a lot more work from home and poor people hand delivering all their meals and supplies to their doors.
beatude,
Thanks for the clarification on immunity.
I am not in the camp that believes Bill Gates has inserted a microchip in the vaccine that will alter my brain chemistry so that I only vote for Marxists, but I do have a very serious question:
Why is there no consideration of whether or not one has had COVID when registering for the vaccine? Shouldn’t COVID survivors be at the end of the list? Or, depending on age, maybe just in front of young folks? The vaccine is in limited supply and we are still scrambling to get at risk folks vaccinated.
It seems to me one of the questions when applying for a shot slot would be; have you had COVID? And a follow-up would be; if so, how long ago?
Oldflyer has decided to trust his daughter who works in the San Bernadino County medical establishment (biggest county in the USA but not the most populous (lot of empty desert out there)). His daughters do not share his political views but love wins out in the end.
In any event, stay safe down in CA and enjoy the time on the water Oldflyer.
Liz @ 4:52- “a lot of people are getting the antibody test to check post vaccine status.”
For what it’s worth, the antibody test normally given may not accurately test post-vaccine status. I am a volunteer in the Johnson and Johnson vaccine trial and was given the injection back in November. At the time we were told that if we are offered an appointment for one of the other vaccines we should call them and they will unblind us to determine whether we had received the vaccine or the placebo. A while back (before the J&J vaccine had been approved) I saw my PCP for my yearly physical and he ordered the antibody test. By chance the next day I was offered a vaccine by the VA. When I called the J&J study team to be unblinded, I was told that I had in fact received the vaccine. A couple of days later my antibody test came back negative. Confused, I called the study team back thinking that a mistake may have been made and I had in fact been given the placebo. He assured me that I had been given the vaccine. The bottom line after a long technical explanation was that the antibody test which is normally given won’t necessarily show the antibodies conferred by their vaccine, and a different type of antibody test would need to be given.
Sorry for the long comment, but my point is that people should be careful about getting an antibody test for the sole purpose of determining post-vaccine status.
Antibodies to most pathogens, in the absence of the pathogen, decline after a period of time, some all the way to undetectable, most to low levels. This normal response varies slightly in length, but is usually complete at 3-6 months. The exampleo f the long lasting antibody response to measles is rare.
A second vaccination is used to boost the levels of memory B Cells, which produce the cells that then produce large amounts of antibodies, and memory T cells, which perform a similar function to produce large numbers of Virus specific T Cells. These T cells surveil and destroy virus infected cells. Together the two memory cell systems mount an effective response to a secondary infection.
I hope this brief (and superficial) summary is helpful. Any competent medical professional knows how the immune system works.
Referring to the Israeli experience; the two major Israeli medical systems have monitored thousands of vaccinated patients. Focusing on those (14000+) who were at least two weeks beyond the second Pfizer vaccination, only 2% were reinfected, less than 0.2% were hospitalized, none were moved to critical care, none died.