Drumming up COVID fear continues to be useful to the Democrats
Commenter “Leland” writes:
I’m no longer in the camp that if Biden/progressives win, Covid will be dropped. No, Covid has become the best vehicle for bypassing checks and balances on government overreach. The Covid statistics will be every bit as useful to politicos and useless to everybody else as pre-election poll numbers. If you liked practicing the religion of your choice, speaking your mind freely, and enjoying assembly with family and like minds; you can just forget about doing these unhealthy things in the future.
Much like Leland, I had originally thought that a Biden win would cause the Democrats to relax COVID rules even with rising cases, as long as hospitalizations and deaths were not spiking everywhere too. But no. They’re ramping up, even with the holidays coming. Maybe especially with the holidays coming.
Now, maybe the change-up is just delayed until the election furor dies down and Biden actually takes office, at which time the magical transformation and taming of COVID will be said to have occurred at his capable hands. But maybe not. Maybe, indeed, they just like to control people.
Actually, there’s no “maybe” about that last sentence. The left very much does like to control people. But I would have thought – and actually I did think – that now that they’ve learned how easy it is to accomplish in today’s America, they would hold it somewhat in abeyance as a tool to be used in certain times. I thought that COVID might have served its political purposes already – to elect Biden. That is true, by the way, whether Biden won as a result of fraud or in the absence of major fraud, because COVID restrictions both enabled voting fraud in terms of the possibilities presented by enormous increases in mail-in voting while simultaneously increasing Biden’s actual support because of COVID-fear and blaming COVID deaths on Trump.
So, what’s going on now? It indeed may be just as Leland says. But making people unhappy is a double-edged sword. I think it was at least partly responsible for the Democrats’ poor showing in Congress and in state legislatures this year.
But in addition, I think there’s a psychological phenomenon involved as well, in which the leaders who promulgate their Draconian rules have become addicted to ordering people around whether it’s politically expedient or not at the moment. An example of that type of person would be Governor Whitmer of Michigan.
I also think that most people don’t understand public health and statistics, and in fact the experts are divided on the benefit of lockdowns and the like. This particular pandemic has been covered more minutely than any predecessor, with the generation of reams of statistics that can be easily accessed online. What to make of these statistics – for example, what rising caseloads actually signify if they’re not accompanied by much of a rise in very serious illness and death – is genuinely confusing to most people. I include epidemiologists and other public health officials, and I certainly include governors.
I think there’s a certain amount of real fear that COVID will get out of control if something isn’t done, and to a governor/carpenter with a hammer – lockdowns – everything looks like a nail. Not everyone has the courage of a Kristi Noem or Sweden’s Prime Minister Lofven. It’s always possible to point to some neighboring state or country that locked down more dramatically and had lower death rates, although it’s also possible to point to those with higher rates. The numbers can be used in a wide variety of ways.
I’ve been surprised at how easy it’s been to frighten the American public into submission, however – or at least, elements of the American public. It’s not that the whole thing is a hype, either, because COVID is frightening to certain age groups (of which I’m part). But that problem could have been handled in so many different ways, with so much less damage to society and the economy, that I can’t help but think the damage was part of the goal for some of the Democratic governors, and that goal may extend beyond this election.
Your last sentence is exactly right neo except “for some of the Democratic governors” substitute “the entire Democrat party”.
Perhaps the lockdown is being pushed simply because the Democrats have no other available tool. Based on experience, the surge in cases will ease up before too long, with or without a lockdown, but this way they can point to the taking of urgent action as halting the resurgence of Covid. Then we’ll have a breather, an inauguration, and the vaccine….
Thank you for the response. My viewpoint on Covid lockdowns is partially based on what I’m seeing in Europe with coworkers beginning a new round of lockdowns. Some might suggest that because Europeans are suffering too, that it is really about the disease and not politics. However, the limitations on freedom are the same, with the same excuses for when it is ok to not have your freedom limited.
Can you imagine the reaction a year ago if Trump announced how many people could lawfully attend a Christmas gathering? And while limiting in home gatherings, Trump also said it was acceptable for hundreds of people to join him in rallies? Yet Mayor Lori Lightfoot did this in regards to Thanksgiving last week.
Also think it’s ‘may as well go all in’ attitude in hopes that The Biden administration will get through some massive bailout package to the states. It really is the only hope for some of these states that were in deep trouble before this happened.
That’ll be interesting since states like Florida and Texas are in pretty good shape fiscally and will have a hard time bailing out Illinois and the like.
One thing that occurs to me is that the new hype about COVID also serves as a handy excuse to delay the various audits and recounts in the battleground states (can’t have lots of people close together in enclosed spaces for lengthy periods of time). They just run out the clock and hope that the current results stand, gambling that no other efforts to rectify will succeed before the constitutional deadlines. Of course the COVID restrictions they use to slow or stop recounts won’t apply to their ground game to steal the two Georgia senate runoff races, but that’s the way they play. One other COVID thought. We now have two different companies reporting 90%+ efficacy for their vaccines, while the standard flu vaccine rarely does better than 50%. I know there’s been some argument that COVID does not mutate as frequently/quickly as influenza, but something seems odd here.
LA Mayor Garcetti, who now apparently rules all of LA County, sounded the alarm about potential over crowding of hospitals. The in-patient population has “surged” to about half of what it was in the summer. That of course was back when the hospital ship and the multi-thousand bed emergency hospitals that Trump sent out, sat unused. Paraphrasing, ‘if Angelinos won’t do the right thing, we have ways of exerting our will’.
I presume that folks around the country know about Gruesome Newsom’s little hypocrisy. Just in case it didn’t get national coverage, the erstwhile Governor of California announced fairly draconian rules for Thanksgiving gatherings, then attended a birthday party for a Lobbyist/Adviser (nice juxtaposition of roles) at a restaurant where the average dinner tab runs to about $400. There were reportedly members of ten families in attendance. Once it became public, he did say that the optics were probably not good, even though he assured us that they used good judgement. Oh well, ok. While reading about that, I also learned that he has moved into a 12,000 sq ft home (8 acres, wine cellar, guest house, tennis courts and pool) because the recently re-modeled Governor’s mansion was inadequate. I guess he can afford it since he allegedly closed all of the wineries, except his own. Sure helps one to compete.
I am getting a bit cynical about our ruling class.
My one hope is we have enough history with this to know how these waves work. We see cases increase moderately then sharply for 4-6 weeks then plateau and drop very quickly followed by leveling at a low level. This has happened everywhere pretty much. And as time goes on each wave is weaker in hospitalizations and deaths. The hospital issue may be clouded by Remdisivir now but those are usually shorter stays. Therefore this wave will fade before the Biden administration takes office. Fingers crossed.
Caveat: this assumes all the numbers given are legit which they are most certainly not.
It has been misrepresented from the very beginning, with the result being terrifying uninformed people. Anyone who was paying attention already knew by February that it was contagious just like any other cold/flu virus and caused little or no illness in the general public. (Early on it was thought to be a serious illness by default but difficult to catch – a relic of early testing capacity shortcomings.) Everything else you see on social media is just the accumulation of new misinformation and absurd hysteria on top of existing misinformation and hysteria.
Early on I was willing to believe that this was the result of clumsy pigheadedness on the part of organizations like the CDC and general confusion due to lack of information, but I have found myself questioning that increasingly as time goes by. There is no doubt that by May, the use of COVID-19 to scare and control people was obvious and predictable.
I try so hard not to leap to the conclusion of malice when stupidity would do. I can only conclude that some influential Dems were in the former camp while others were in the latter.
A neighbor is trying to persuade me that President Trump’s purported economic success came at the expense of worsened conditions for the poor. When I say he actually presided over rising job rates, wages, and accumulated wealth for the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, she retreats to saying that he cost too many people jobs, especially poor people in the hospitality industry. When I point out that the lockdowns did that, and he pointed left it to local leaders to choose the lockdown strategy that worked for them (and Ds killed more jobs than Rs), she retreats to saying we only needed lockdowns because he didn’t somehow reduce the severity of the virus spread early on; if he had, we’d have needed shorter lockdowns somehow. Asked to square that with any kind of look at different jurisdictions’ experience with lockdown and disease spread, she reverts to incoherent squid ink.
Is she malicious, or an idiot? She’s reasonably intelligent by ordinary standards, but I’d still say that although she’s letting her brain be highjacked by TDS, her malice is against him personally rather than a deliberate strategy to harm the U.S. so that she can use the harm to bring about her own political ends. I can’t necessarily say the same of people like Pelosi. I just don’t know.
Our governor here in WA is such a beauty he must be so mad we are stuck in SE Alaska and don’t get the media coverage of Whitmer and Cuomo.
Yesterday he actually said it’s simply too dangerous to go into a restaurant right now. Really. Now today he is saying don’t panic shop people!
Texan99: I think you nailed it with the “different jurisdictions” argument. Not just within the United States but worldwide. If they want to argue that Trump’s bungling of the response and misrepresentation of the threat caused all the leftist geniuses in Europe to screw up they give him greater power than he deserves. Although I would agree that TDS has a way of messing with one’s ability to think reasonably. I see similar patterns starting with this latest scare. In the spring they told us “just two weeks to flatten the curve”. Now they say “give up your holiday season so your family can live to enjoy it next year”.
The madness of King Jay.
Covid is a conduit for the Great Reset, a term defined in a recent issue of Time magazine. We might be looking at some fundamental changes to the underlying structure of economy and society.
The European response weakens the whole ‘it’s a plot to get Trump argument’. Not totally because there definitely is some of that at play in the voting protocols put in place. But I have a hard time figuring how getting Trump had much impact on the reactions in the UK, France. Australia, New Zealand, etc.
The most convincing worldwide argument is that we have an unbelievably incompetent but oh so sure of themselves leadership class.
But in addition, I think there’s a psychological phenomenon involved as well, in which the leaders who promulgate their Draconian rules have become addicted to ordering people around whether it’s politically expedient or not at the moment. An example of that type of person would be Governor Whitmer of Michigan.
neo: You might appreciate the Slate position on Whitmer, sarcastically speaking.
___________________________________________________
Gretchen Whitmer Shuts Michigan Restaurants, Bars in Stirring Reminder That Democrats Can Actually Do Things
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/gretchen-whitmer-michigan-shutdown-restaurants-bars-closed-seems-smart-probably.html
Griffin:
I think that the US is – or at least was until very recently – a very substantially different place than Europe. Europeans are used to being pushed around by the EU, etc., and have a weak tradition of liberty. So for Europe it’s just business as usual and they don’t need another excuse to do it.
In the US it wasn’t business as usual to push people around that much. It had the added benefit, they thought, of hurting Trump. So it was done. It had other benefits, too, as I mention in the post. So it’s not either/or.
But we also do have “an unbelievably incompetent but oh so sure of themselves leadership class.”
“I’ve been surprised at how easy it’s been to frighten the American public into submission, however – or at least, elements of the American public.”
The 20 and 30 somethings have been raised on participation trophies, and have been taught that there must be zero risk in all of life, therefore very easily frightened by almost anything. We are being bombarded here in CT with state sponsored ads to get tested. One showed up on FB with the inane, bureaucratic statement: “Stay Safe, get tested”. I remarked that getting tested does not keep one safe; sort of like saying a colonoscopy would prevent colon cancer. The deluge of negative reactions to my statement came from 30 something, mainly women. I now understand what “Karens” are.
“Caveat: this assumes all the numbers given are legit which they are most certainly not.”
Given the information out there on PCR testing cycles etc, basically take the current case numbers and multiply by 0.3 to get the actual true infected cases. Yes, it’s a 3rd wave, but not nearly as big as it’s being made out to be.
physicsguy:
I know about the younger people and how they were raised, but I’ve noticed this huge COVID-fear in all age groups.
Yesterday he actually said it’s simply too dangerous to go into a restaurant right now. Really. Now today he is saying don’t panic shop people!
It’s dangerous for people over 60 and for people over 50 with a weight problem. What younger people have to be mindful of is to regulate their interactions with their older relatives. What we’ve needed from state governments was for them to organize collective action to protect the vulnerable populations. Instead, what we get is public health theatre. And we know it’s theatre because they abandoned it instantly when a key element of their constituency wanted to riot buts-to-nuts.
NB, Washington state does not have a stressed hospital system at this time nor has any recent increased in case reports been manifest in an increase in the death toll.
Texan 99 asked, “Is she malicious, or an idiot?” The correct answer requires embracing the power of “and.”
neo,
Yep good point about Europe with maybe the exception of the UK. I’ve been watching a lot video from the UK and I don’t get the impression that this (lockdowns) is business as usual there with exception of course of the World Wars.
The lockdowns have also probably mortally damaged Boris Johnson politically it looks like. Just as here the Torys and much more lockdown skeptical and the coalition that led to his election has been very much hurt by the lockdowns. He’s fortunate he has a few years to get it together.
Plus it looks like the final Brexit deal is very much angering it’s supporters. Some someone refer to it as BINO.
It is unfathomable how much this entire COVID thing has affected the entire world. Maybe nothing man made ever (Great Depression maybe) like it only possible thing would be a massive volcanic eruption or something that caused global climate disruption. So dumb.
A neighbor is trying to persuade me
You’re neighbor is a more sophisticated version of a standard-issue street-level Democrat. All improvisation and forensic games. The cruder ones ignore contrary information and toss garbage memes at you (some of which they get from talking point mills).
Whitmer seems to be an absolute nutcase. Here is something else that she is doing. This pipeline connects “Western Canadian oil and gas production with refineries in Ontario and across the U.S. Midwest.”
https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/enbridge-faces-new-fight-as-michigan-seeks-to-shut-down-line-5
North America’s largest pipeline company Enbridge Inc. warned of “devastating consequences” on Friday after Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer served the company notice the state would seek to cancel a 67-year-old pipeline easement across critical waterways in her state.
Whitmer’s office and the state’s Department of Natural Resources filed a lawsuit seeking to cancel an easement granted in 1953 to cross the Straits of Mackinac, an important water body connecting Lake Michigan and Lake Huron.
I’ve got to agree with physicsguy that this is the ‘safety uber alles’ that has been percolating among younger generations for a while now brought to it’s extreme conclusion. Never leave your tiny apartment and you will live forever on government checks.
The older people I come in contact with seem to be much more nuanced and philosophical about all this. Purely anecdotal but the few people I run into in stores defiantly going maskless are almost always people who appear to be in the 70-80 age range. They are heroes in my book but that’s just me.
Hi, Gothamite. Re: your mild skepticism about efficacy rates of these new vaccines – it seems to me that (while I haven’t read the papers with the study results) the flu vaccines have to cover multiple strains which are harder to predict, maybe. As far as I know, with COVID-19, we have five basic strains to deal with so far, all of which are known and have been sampled. With flu vaccine, my understanding is that its creators have to predict in advance of each flu season which will be the top four strains out of however many may end up circulating, so their job is more of a crapshoot.
There is also the fact that the new anti-COVID vaccines are more specifically targeted on a molecular level. Taken together, I think this is all fine to explain the increased efficacy.
Art Deco,
Please. Maybe if you have serious health issues then it might be too dangerous but that may have been true on any number of past flu seasons also. I feel fairly confident that virtually anybody is in far more danger of dying from the drive to the restaurant, the walk to the table, and food poisoning than they are from getting Covid and dying from a restaurant.
Neo (quoting Griffin) says, “But we also do have “an unbelievably incompetent but oh so sure of themselves leadership class.”
Recent post in City Journal makes this very point: “Elite Opinion Is Never Wrong”:
https://www.city-journal.org/elite-opinion-never-wrong
“Useful” indeed.
Tremendously useful.
Might there be a relationship?
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/senate-watch-more-600000-voters-georgia-have-requested-mail-ballots-january-runoff
And then there’s the ever-hopeful thug-in-chief of the Democratic party:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-says-more-people-may-die-because-of-trump-s-transition-blockade-as-pandemic-worsens/ar-BB1b4f4a?ocid=msedgntp
Yes, tremendously useful.
http://americandigest.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Screen-Shot-2020-07-20-at-11.39.22-AM.png
“Never leave your tiny apartment…..”
Griffen, I have 3 nephews all in their early 30s and married. I generally really like their wives, but these ladies have gone off the deep end with this virus. One has not left her house in the past 8 months, one keeps posting virus fears on FB, and the third with 2 young kids, ages 1.5 and 3.5 has totally isolated the family to “protect the kids”. She won’t even let the grandparents see them except from the yard at a distance of 50 ft and the kids have had zero contact with any other children this entire year. I’ve heard all 3 of my nephews are very concerned about their wives’ behavior. Another anecdote of 30 something women being frightened literally out of their minds.
I must admit that while I was expecting that COVID fearmongering would continue until Biden’s inauguration, I was surprised by his hyping the coming “winter of darkness.” Not sure why. One possibility is that he also pushing Pelosi’s “The HEROS Act” which is yet another massive omnibus stimulus/recovery deal that also has hidden in it new nationalized election trickery. Mail-in ballots for everyone everywhere!
The market was up today on more good vaccine news as mentioned in above comments. The Pfizer vax is about 90% effective and the Moderna version is 94.5%. At least on the latter the error bars are not tiny, as the active group was around 100. I tried to do a semi deep dive on vaccines a week ago, and the technologies out there are amazing but also a little disturbing.
Covid Fear is obviously useful to the Elites and for sure they make cynical use of it.
Still, it’s clear that many of them actually believe it is real. They have to. If they got this wrong, maybe it was also a mistake having Little Tommy gelded and raised as a xirl.
https://www.takimag.com/article/keeping-the-civic-religion-afloat/
We’re living in a strange period of religious hysteria. Something like the Great Fear is stalking the halls of Managerialism.
And the Peasants are Revolting. I for one intend to be as malodorous as possible.
Here in the People’s Republic of WA we just re-elected Emperor King Jay for 4 more years. By a landslide. And it’s not like we didn’t know he would order another lockdown tout suite.
The majority of my fellow residents clearly *wanted* more lockdowns, and wanted them good and hard. (BTW, does the way that King Jay says Washing-TONE-ian with the 3rd syllable accent drive anyone else bonkers?)
Most elections I don’t even know why I bother to vote. The D’s overwhelmingly win every time here, no matter what they do, or how incompetent. It’s like living in California without the nice weather.
Griffin, I believe that you have strange ideas of heroism. I do not see going in public without a mask as heroic in any sense; anymore than I view the people who flaunt authority by running stop signs. Of course the term has lost much of its original meaning anyway.
There is a continuum of responses to Covid. Large scale lock downs that cost jobs, and create numerous other hardships are at one end. Wearing a mask in public is near the other end. It is an easy thing to do.
Yes, masks are a subject of discussion; and some see their use as capitulation to authority. I suppose that is how you see it. I don’t and I wear a mask when near other people. I have commented several times that I do not take my attitude about masks from government, but from close associates in the public health sector; people who are treating COVID patients, and who believe that they are not only effective, but essential protection for the wearer and for others around them.. They may be wrong; but, it costs nothing in terms of self esteem, or any other measure, to observe this precaution.
Bottom line. I believe that COVID has become a political weapon in the hands of some. On the other hand, it is serious business if you get it; and certainly justifies the same precautions one would take around a serious flu outbreak.
What is ‘funny’ ( strange … not HaHaHa ) is that among the hardest hit by COVID restrictions is the ‘cultural’ sector. Museums, movies, live theater, symphony orchestras, Opera companies… and the like. And they are almost 100% leftist.
Kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
OTOH, the restrictions are definitely strangling small businesses which are – probably – majority conservative.
As both my wife and I are long retired the two things hitting us hardest are not traveling and only seeing the grandkids via facetime.
We always loved baking and cooking at home and that really hasn’t changed. But we do more takeout from local restaurants and now … gasp … actually tip even when we bring things home.
Much of our travel budget has been redirected as donations to local food pantries and homeless shelters.
We have also increased contributions to our Church even though we don’t attend worship services in person.
I spoke to my (35 yo) son last evening. He even admitted to me that he and his younger brother (30) seem to be among the generation(s) that are most worried about covid.
He teaches in college and says the students basically aren’t afraid, and that people over 40 or so GENERALLY aren’t either. Such as his mom (me) and his significant other’s parents, who are around my age (early 60s).
Of course, there are exceptions everywhere, but my kids are crazy.
Oh, and of course neither of them plans to come for Thanksgiving this year, so it doesn’t really matter that King Jay of Washington says we can’t have anyone from outside our household visit and share dinner with us.
And yes, I loved his plea to not hoard crap at the stores. Sorry, that ship has sailed already. And he’s only allowing stores to be at 25% capacity. Lines anyone??
Here in CO if you don’t have a mask on you don’t get into stores. That is why I wear one, mostly. If not required I might still wear one because it is really no big dear. And I am 74.
I understand that Dictator Fauci has now declared Christmas is banned. And he is not even green.
I am going to beat a dead horse because this is serious.
My daughter had a mild/moderate case of COVID a few months ago. She treated at home; but, she describes her experience as very painful. She is 56 years old, excellent health, athletic; runs several times a week, played in a young woman’s soccer league (when it was operating), went to the gym regularly. Healthy life style all around. Months after the episode, her heart rate still ranges between the 40s and the 140s; and she has other after effects.
Hopefully, this is not permanent.
She is not unique. She tells me that there are “recovered” patients in her hospital with more serious neurological and cardio after effects.
There is no predictor of what course the disease will take with any individual; regardless of age, life style or general health.
I am glad that President Trump–as far as we know–has recovered with no serious after effects. Of course he had treatment that is not available to the populace. His example is not a good measure; and people should not base their attitudes on it.
So, more is known about risk factors, and treatments. We know that the morbidity rate is not has high as initially feared. But, anyone who does not treat this as a serious issue; and who does not take whatever precautions they can reasonably take is a fool. Not a hero.
Oldflyer:
I agree that it is serious and that everyone should treat it seriously and take precautions. I certainly take them.
However, how much liberty should be taken away from us by governors’ edicts is a very different question, and how much we actually know about preventing contagion is another.
By the way, serious cases of flu can have similar complications to what you describe. I had a friend who had H1N1 and almost died from it. It took her a year or two to fully recover. I hope your daughter feels all better soon!
Oldflyer,
Ok, not a hero like running into a burning building to save a child or storming the beach at Normandy but an everyday hero yes in my opinion. I wear a mask when required but not because I think it matters but because I respect the private businesses where it usually applies. Enough research has been done by now saying that it really requires close contact for an extended period of time (several minutes at least) for infection so walking past someone in a grocery aisle isn’t going to cut it and I respect people that weigh the risks and make their own choices and are willing to live with consequences. Plus there are societal downsides to so many masked encounters and the attitudes they breed. Everybody is a faceless entity at best and a threat at worst. That is not a good thing for society.
But, if you or anyone else feels safer wearing a mask then by all means do it I have no issue with that. But the government mandating to us what we wear is a step too far for me. And it’s not like this doesn’t touch me as I have mentioned I have a 90 year old mother that probably wouldn’t survive COVID so this is not some callous attitude.
Oldflyer:
You can call anyone a fool, it is your right and their life. Have a good day regardless.
I assume this is the same Leland who mailed her ballot from Britain in favor of the Biden/Harris ticket? I’m so done with people who make “intelligent” arguments in favor of freedom and against wokeness, but then vote for the party of oppression and wokeness.
I’m with Griffin on the mask wearing. I wear one when asked by a store. Otherwise, I have walked outside literally every single day since shutdown without a mask. I feel very confident that walking in the free air does not put me at risk. In terms of age and medical risk factors I am certainly more at risk than most. So I am definitely walking the talk.
For anyone who’s missed it, here’s a short and (IMO) thoughtful writeup of where we stand.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-compassionate-anti-covid-strategy/
And I recommend this blog to keep informed about developments. TBH, he’s probably more in the OldFlyer camp than with Griffin and me. Chock full of info though.
https://spinstrangenesscharm.wordpress.com/
Sometimes inaction is the best action.
I think a lot of us felt that after the election, Dems would ease up on the Covid lockdowns. Either Repubs would win and there’d be no point. Or Dems would win and claim they were the ones bringing us back to normal.
Feels to me that Dems are concluding they need to tighten.
Please everyone, never ever vote for a Democrat again. ‘K?
As a young adult my aunt used to discuss the Trilateral Commission and Council of Foreign Relations and one world conspiracy. I still scoff about these committees/councils or whatever they are. As a young adult and a child I would roll my eyes when my immigrant parents talked about how the press was so one sided and colluded with each other. Well, after “Journolist” and after seeing so many YouTube’s of members of the press using the same words to describe things, I don’t scoff any more. I believe there is co-ordination. Similarly, I believe there is a globalist co-ordination. This pandemic has finally provided them a reason to close business and make people dependent on the state all around the world. All the same (co-ordinated?) message. My immigrant family (who escaped from communism) say that these globalists are socialists/communists. That they have seen similar tactics but in a smaller scale I don’t scoff any more.
Well, after “Journolist” and after seeing so many YouTube’s of members of the press using the same words to describe things, I don’t scoff any more. I believe there is co-ordination. — Tina
Amen Tina. I don’t know if Tina or others saw this, but James Woods put out a Twitter video illustrating just how scripted the local TV news has become. I’ve seen this type of video montage before, but the scale of this one is amazing.
Information about masks and efficacy: Masks
Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study
Masks have an intuitive appeal, which may lead to a false sense of safety.
Tokyo citizens may have developed COVID-19 herd immunity, say researchers
To estimate seropositivity for SARS-CoV-2 throughout the summer, the team enrolled 1,877 healthy, asymptomatic employees of large company from 11 disparate locations across Tokyo.
…
To estimate seroconversion and seroreversion among the general population in Tokyo over time, the tests were offered to each participant twice, separated by around a month.
…
The seropositivity rate increased from 5.8% at the beginning of the study to an unexpectedly high 46.8 % by the end of the summer.
Compared with the United States and European countries, COVID-19-related mortality has been low in Japan, and the death rate has fallen despite the absence of a lockdown.
Flatten the curve, increase the vectors and prolong exposure to a less hospitable time and place.
The reason that former WI Gov Scott Walker was so successful (and so hated by the Left) is that he envisioned and implemented a brilliant plan.
He made it so that gov’t workers could choose if they wanted to belong to a union or not. It was their free choice.
I believe it was a majority of the gov’t workers who chose to leave the union. Many wonderful things followed: far fewer “donations” to the Democrat Party. The employee state medical plan was administered through the union, it stayed as the admin but they had to re-bid for the role. The contract was greatly improved and saved the public a ton of money. And the policy appealed to the ordinary voter’s sense of fairness. Let the employee decide, no coercion.
With Covid, those of us who oppose the shutdown and its impact on freedom have not found our Scott Walker. What is the plan to push back? If a store tries to remain open, they will be forcibly shut by the police. And probably sued by a local Karen. A church in my town which had in-person services was fined $10,000 each week until they stopped.
We’ve seen a few lawsuits in the media recently where judges say Governors don’t have authority to make arbitrary laws (or, at least, can only do so for 60 days or 90 days, etc).
Most of those lawsuits are not enough. For example Gov Newsom in CA was rebuked for his election decision to implement “everyone vote by mail”. But the election was not overturned. Gov Evers was rebuked in WI but local Dem city councils enacted similar laws that stopped freedom from breaking out.
We need tacticians to help us fight back. Should we have GoFundMe’s to raise money for lawyers to go to court on our behalf? With so many citizens and small businesses eager for relief, I have to believe that any workable plan would be embraced swiftly. But … what is that plan?
b I feel fairly confident that virtually anybody is in far more danger of dying from the drive to the restaurant, the walk to the table, and food poisoning than they are from getting Covid and dying from a restaurant.
Doesn’t matter if you feel ‘fairly confident’. The virus is spread in contained environments where you linger, as you do in a restaurant. The mortality rate for those infected has fallen, but last spring about 5% of those over 60 with a symptomatic case died from this ailment.
Evil gonna evil? Totalitarians are totalitarians?
Not sure why people are surprised. Maybe they are not surprised, but just shocked, as in traumatically shocked.
We need tacticians to help us fight back. Should we have GoFundMe’s to raise money for lawyers to go to court on our behalf? With so many citizens and small businesses eager for relief, I have to believe that any workable plan would be embraced swiftly. But … what is that plan?
As Flynn made note of, digital warriors are needed. As corny and funny as that may sound to military bitter vets. A common source intel link would be useful for C4 as well. Command, Control, Communication, Computers.
Gofundme is controlled by Leftists, so they will let you expend your “run” and then cancel the funding. Gosend something is better, potentially.
You can look up the Q resistance movement as well.
https://qalerts.app/
https://veilofreality.com/tag/qanon/
@Art+deco please give the reference for this statistic that you give for US case fatality rates. Please give us assurance that these deaths were Covid caused and not positive Covid associated with some form of death. Please give assurance that this data is not biased by data from deaths caused by malpractice performed by Governors such as Cuomo on their population. Finally, your trying to make others feel guiltily based on old and likely questionable data is…silly. Follow the science.
If the Biden “victory” wasn’t bad enough, this really has me scared shitless. It appears Andy above is correct, and the “great reset” is indeed underway, with Covid as an excuse:
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/the_great_covid_reset.html
Tina: Current CDC statistics on Covid fatality rates:
________________________________________
0-19 Years 99.997%
20-49 Years 99.98%
50-69 Years 99.5%
70+ 94.6%
*80+ not included
Data Source: CDC
https://www.nbc26.com/news/coronavirus/cdc-estimates-covid-19-fatality-rate-including-asymptomatic-cases
________________________________________
I imagine these numbers are inflated for reasons already discussed plus the statistics include numbers from last spring when Mistakes Were Made like putting Covid patients into nursing homes.
@Art+deco please give the reference for this statistic that you give for US case fatality rates.
That was in re the Diamond Princess passengers.
“anyone who does not treat this as a serious issue; and who does not take whatever precautions they can reasonably take is a fool.”
This is really the issue. If you decide to take precautions, fine. If the government forces you to take precautions, then that is a bit too far. There were similar push backs to wearing a seat belt, yet driving a car was considered a privilege. Now the government (if under Biden) is demanding wearing a mask to be in public at all. That’s a restriction of liberty.
If they can demand a mask, they can demand other things under the name of precaution. For instance, no room can have more than 4 people in it to prevent the easy spread of germs. And this isn’t a slippery slope argument, because they already are demanding these new precautions be implemented in our homes. This may fail on court challenge, but only because our constitution codes that our homes are our property and not the governments.
And on this hero talk. If you wear a mask because the government tells you to do so; you are no hero. You are a passive follower. If wearing a mask is optional, and you suffer to wear one because it protects your love ones; then you can call yourself a hero, because you are making an active choice to do for others. Otherwise, can the hero talk when your actions are only in compliance.
Art Deco: re the Diamond Princess passengers
It is interesting during election season how much credibility is given to polls in predicting outcomes. Most of these polls have a sample set of a couple thousand people. With Diamond Princess, you have a real world sample set with a reasonable mix of age groups and large enough size to provide useful analysis. Yet that data is routinely ignored and discounted, while being pretty accurate in forecasting where we are today. Compare Diamond Princess data with Huxley’s data from the CDC, and then look at Imperial College’s forecasting back in March. Lockdown’s were based on Imperial College’s forecast.
The First Law of Engineering, which I just made up, is:
There are always trade-offs.
I would like to see much more open discussion on the trade-offs of Covid restrictions. Covid is not the flu, but it’s not Ebola or the Black Death either.
The Covid restrictions have their downsides — increased mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse, domestic violence, suicide, home loss, evictions, poverty, deaths and illness due to missed medical testing and treatment plus the blighting of normal life and education at all levels.
Those are real deaths and harms too. Where do we draw the lines?
If Covid goes away, should we keep wearing masks because of flu? If not, why not?
“I have commented several times that I do not take my attitude about masks from government, but from close associates in the public health sector; people who are treating COVID patients, and who believe that they are not only effective, but essential protection for the wearer and for others around them.. They may be wrong; but, it costs nothing in terms of self esteem, or any other measure, to observe this precaution.” Oldflyer
That is all good and you are entitled to your understanding. When I made several trips to visit my son in Europe in 2014, being the germophobe I am, I investigated what mask I should buy for these flights with a willingness to part with considerable cash for the best one. After my research I ended up with no mask at all because they were all deemed ineffective against viral/bacterial exposure. There is no mention of masks or lockdowns in ANY of the written record of the CDC regarding pandemic response prior to and up to this Sars CoV-2 occurence.
The mask happens to be implicated in my suffering extended issues with COVID-19 after having been perfectly fine after 3 days. It only took 20 minutes of wearing an N95 mask to put me into a tailspin resulting in 2 weeks of unnecessary suffering prior to being perfectly well post-relapse infection. It turns out that breathing the refuse of my respiration is bad for me. Maybe some can manage it better and if they want to take that chance for unproven protection that is their right. But on the basis of science and personal experience I refute it. For me personally, I have to don the mask to go to the bank, the store and get my nails done. I call it the “pre 666”. My husband and I have the antibodies and I believe that the lockdowns are keeping us from natural herd immunity. If we come to the place where one has to have the vaccine (something people involved in some of our government positions–Dr. Fauci being one, make a lot of $$ on) in order to work, buy and sell we may have to find a place where we can relocate, if such an possibility would be available.
[wearing masks] costs nothing in terms of self esteem, or any other measure, to observe this precaution.” –Oldflyer
For one thing, you can’t hear a mask wearer as clearly, especially if one has even mild hearing loss. Plus one misses many of the visual cues in reading someone’s face.
So it measurably detracts from having a regular conversation, but I’ll bet there are people dead or injured from missing some bit of crucial information said by a mask wearer.
I also wonder if robberies are up because mask wearing is standard now in convenience stores.
There are always trade-offs.
A lot of people died in 2020. Just not necessarily what they think of as a virus.
Suicides, robberies, murder, riots, mistakes, accidents, negligence.
I guess enough propaganda and brainwashing have occurred to stop suppressing the release of this recent study. And note, the mask wearers were wearing N95 masks and had been schooled in how to properly wear them.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817
Sharon W:
After ignoring the study or doing all to discredit the science the fall back will be:
“Yes they don’t help, but, if they save just one life it will be worth it. You don’t want to kill Grandma (or little puppies). You will comply (and you will be punished)!”
The goal is obedience and acceptance of coercion.
Thanks for that Sharon W.
So that is two community mask studies (randomized with control group) showing no efficacy; the other being the 2015 Australia (influenza?) study.
I read most of your link, and I believe they were not using N95 masks but instead were using three layer disposable surgical masks. I believe that other hospital setting mask studies have shown N95 masks to have positive preventative results for bacterial infections, but little or none for viral infections.
huxley wrote, If Covid goes away, should we keep wearing masks because of flu? If not, why not?
Indeed. Throughout all of this, I keep asking “what’s the endgame?” Covid is never going away — vaccine or no, it will always be out there, because you can’t vaccinate everyone with 100% success and 100% permanency. So the at-risk types (like my ex) can claim “OMG you’re trying to kill us” forever. So when do we get to stop and get our lives back?
It’s feeling like the answer is “never”, barring a revolution.
Also, the 30-something demographic of women panicking over Covid reminds me so strongly of my ex’s experience on pregnancy forums when she was pregnant with our daughter 12 years ago when she was in that demographic herself. My joking characterization of it was “somebody smoked a cigarette in the next county, does that mean MY BABY WILL DIE?!!” We both rolled our eyes hard at that, but now with Covid she’s doing the same thing: “Anyone I see not wearing a mask is telling me they don’t care if they kill me.” (That’s verbatim, btw. She legitimately is at risk due to lung damage from bad pneumonia, but there’s nothing wrong with her immune system.)