Home » On Trump’s illness: assuming the risk

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On Trump’s illness: assuming the risk — 58 Comments

  1. I searched for news of the president’s condition this morning and every new entry was an attack on him. We have a formally free press. The quality of our journalists is such that it doesn’t matter.

  2. I’ve written two movie scripts and the better one (that I’m still marketing) is “Frankenstein, Part II.” I read up on screenwriting and adapted two novels by a high school friend.

    In the three act play format, there is usually a scene called “All is Lost.” Trump is at that stage now. He’s behind in the polls, Terrible debate. And now covid.

    But our hero has now defeated death. No problem for him to defeat Biden and the Fake News (again). Victory! I do, however, remain worried about Dem cheating in the election.

    From the very beginning of Trump’s political journey, I’ve thought that his WWE experience was the most insightful. Trump knows showmanship. His emergence from the “All is Lost” part of the story is something that he will really play up in the next debate and down the stretch.

    I can hear him now, “I defeated the China virus. Now I’ll defeat Sleepy Joe.”

  3. Nobody gets Covid-19 like The President:

    https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media/?thread_id=1413106754&attachment_id=808655366546892&message_id=mid.%24cAAAAAAnAbwZ7K56LY10-lk9pA4vi
    (does this link work? My wife and I have been chuckling over it.)

    those who believe in trying to eliminate all risk are probably not the ones thinking of voting for Trump in the first place.

    “A boat in the harbor is safe.
    But that is not what boats are made for.”

    I don’t wear a helmet when skiing, nor when I occasionally ride a bike (on lousy Slovak roads). It reduces my pleasure in the activity too much.

    Lots of folks are in favor of helmet laws. For motorcycle riders. Or bike riders. Yet not for car drivers & passengers, despite evidence that wearing a helmet inside a car would reduce car accident deaths, where many accident deaths are due to head trauma that a helmet would protect against. All races require all drivers to wear helmets.

    I know of quite a few who want to minimize risk – but not so much that they’re willing to wear helmets inside a car.

    There is no risk free society; and even the attempt to minimize risk has other negative effects.

    Trump is very much the Showman. I was reminded of Trump as we saw Hugh Jackman play PT Barnum in the 19th century: The Greatest Showman https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1485796/
    (only slightly too PC. A line that Trump could say in response to an act saying that they’ll be laughed at: “Yeah, they’ll still laugh at you. But now they’ll pay you to laugh.”)

    I was in the second grade, at school, when Kennedy was shot. We were sent home. My Canadian step-mom was crying with my dad looking at our B&W TV. It wasn’t such a big deal to me, tho.

    I’m ready for Trump to recover – but also to get gravely sick and even die. I was in the hospital a couple of years ago for bad heart ventricle due to a blood clot. I take medicine now, and Thank God our Christian Capitalist market society has developed such medical expertise and medicine. I’m not ready to die; yet I sort of am, too. (now that I’m 64).

    We’ve prayed for the Trumps, and others with the coronavirus, to get well – and we’ll pray for them again.

  4. I think part of the issue with people blaming Trump getting it is that they don’t know anyone who did get COVID and who wore a mask. I know of three. Two died with complications of COVID (one had diabetes). Both were in their 60s. Out of the three that survived and recovered the person was in her 30s. They worked in hospitals as they wore N95 masks and PPE. Trump getting it now and not in the earlier stages of the pandemic should be put into perspective. The timeline is blissfully ignored. People forget that just because you get COVID doesn’t necessarily mean one was neglectful or others were. It’s a virus.

  5. Trump decided that doing his job made hiding away impossible. He has taken extensive and reasonable precautions. Upon getting the virus anyhow, he, typically, attacked it head-on. I assume he’ll be watched very closely through this coming weekend for any sign of the cytokine storm.

    Biden, on the other hand, has decided that the risk is too great, and he’s “setting an example” by hiding away from almost all contact.

    By the way, since daily testing and masks as required did not keep the virus at bay anyhow, we should ask if most people should entirely suspend their lives in the hope of avoiding it. Older people with multiple conditions, transplant patients, cancer patients, and others with serious medical problems need to continue precautions for a while yet.

  6. “By the way, since daily testing and masks as required did not keep the virus at bay anyhow, we should ask if most people should entirely suspend their lives in the hope of avoiding it.”

    There is probably no one anywhere monitored more closely than Trump and Biden and the staff surrounding them right now. That there’s this sudden outbreak among some of most closely monitored, most extensively tested people on the planet shows the folly of this idea. You’re either willing to weld the population of the entire planet into apartments for weeks at a time, in an attempt to eradicate a cold virus, or you’re not.

  7. Kate (5:17 pm) mentioned “daily testing.” I got to wondering how reliable are those tests. Here are some sentences I have lifted from . . .

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-accurate-are-covid-19-diagnostic-and-antibody-tests#Which-test-is-best?

    . . . in order to offer a sense of the situation. For full context, please go to the link.

    BEGIN PASTES

    The most common tests used to diagnose an infection with the novel coronavirus are almost 100 percent effective if administered correctly. However, the same can’t be said of tests to determine if you’ve already had the disease and have developed antibodies.

    . . .

    There are two basic types of tests for the novel coronavirus. One type diagnoses an infection and the other tests for antibodies.

    Diagnostic tests detect active infections. This is the test you want if you think you’ve been exposed to the coronavirus or are exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19. There are currently two types of diagnostic tests available.

    – The molecular real-time polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) test detects the virus’s genetic material.
    – The antigen test detects specific proteins on the surface of the virus.

    . . .

    If performed correctly, RT-PCR swab tests “would be pretty close to 100 percent accurate,” Volk told Healthline. . . . False-positive results, while rare, can occur with PCR tests, said Wojewoda, because the coronavirus’ genetic material may linger in the body long after recovery from an infection. “You can’t tell if the person [had an infection] 3 days ago or 5 months ago,” she said.

    [Antigen] tests have the advantage of yielding faster results (hours rather than several days). They’re also less accurate than RT-PRC tests, mostly because they require test samples to contain large amounts of virus proteins to yield a positive result.

    False-negative results from antigen tests may range as high as 20 to 30 percent. “If an antigen test is positive, you can believe it,” said Wojewoda. “If it’s negative, you have to question that.”

    . . .

    Antibody tests are not diagnostic tests. . . . However, researchers don’t yet know whether the presence of antibodies means that you have immunity, whether you could still get sick from a different strain of the virus, or how long immunity lasts. . . . Antibody tests also are subject to false-positive results. “The job of antibodies is to stick to things, so they can create a positive test result if they react to a different type of coronavirus,” said Wojewoda.

    . . .

    Experts generally agree that the RT-PCR tests are more accurate and useful than antigen and antibody tests, which are better used as confirmatory tools.

    END PASTES

  8. Re: assuming the risk … drawing the line –neo

    Exactly. And undeniably complex.

    However, it seems the Covid-concerned are only concerned with Covid. They don’t seem to notice or care that Covid measures generate their own problems, even fatal problems — alcohol/drug/depression/suicide/mental illness/domestic violence from reduced social interaction, medical problems because of missed testing/monitoring, et al.

    Then there are general quality of life issues — being friendly or even intimate with others, attending gatherings, going to parks or beaches, participating in religious events, and on and on. Not to mention, keeping your business or your job going.

    I’ve seen impressive enough arguments that the Covid efforts have already done more damage than the disease would have done without them.

    We might all be “safer” if we stayed at home alone, but what kind of life is that?

    Life entails some amount of risk. Deciding where to draw the lines isn’t easy, but the one thing I learned from being a programmer (a sort of engineer) is that there are always trade-offs and you’re fooling yourself if you ignore this.

  9. Heh. Wayne Allan Root, at the Gateway Pundit: “Trump Just Became Captain America … and Democrats Are Losing Their Minds.”

    Kate: Good article, in line with my earlier comments about Trump as a force of nature.

    Perhaps my comments over the past few months sound too cheerily optimistic. I give reasons, but one principle underneath them is Root’s:

    [Trump] is relentless. He never gives up. He always finds a way to come out on top. My favorite saying is, “NBAT: Never Bet Against Trump.”

    Me neither. (Though I took some persuading.)

  10. Re: Masks

    As I’ve noted in at least one other post here, the CDC themselves have a posted study about the effectiveness of masks in stopping influenza:

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

    Money Quote (emphasis mine):
    Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning.

    Granted, this is “influenza”, not CV, but… unless the method of transmission is radically different, which it may be, this seems pretty indicative.

    Essentially, it supports the notion that, “when your number is up, your number is up.”

  11. }}} I was in the second grade, at school, when Kennedy was shot. We were sent home. My Canadian step-mom was crying with my dad looking at our B&W TV. It wasn’t such a big deal to me, tho.

    Yeah, under a certain age the impact of massive events is often filtered through the selfish lens of childhood. I believe the difference between an adult and a child is that you see through the eyes of others far far more, if not completely (vs. zero for children)… children who “empathize” are, I think, actually just mirroring their role models, more than truly empathizing themselves. I can literally identify when my own viewpoint began to see others’ experiences from others’ PoVs — one to two months before my 12th birthday.

    All I remember of the Kennedy assassination, as a result, was the fact that my afternoon TV shows weren’t on, DAMMIT!! 😛

  12. Trump is leaving Walter reed too soon. His chief doc, Dr. Sean Conley, said he’d been afebrile(Oops! without fever) since Friday. And Trump himself feels “20 years younger”.
    BUT he has been on dexamethasone, a potent steroid. As an anti-inflammatory, it suppresses fever. It can also cause a sense of euphoria.

    We are not getting the full skinny from Dr. Conley. But he has a tough patient with huge responsibilities, not the least of which is to save the USA from the Democrats.

    I just hope Trump will not have to be rushed back to Walter Reed in the next 72 hours.

  13. Cicero:

    I’m in agreement. I was surprised they let him go this soon, and although I’m sure they’re monitoring him just about constantly while he’s home, I don’t like the prospect of him being taken back to the hospital. I thought they’d keep him through days 7 or 10 or whenever the crisis time tends to be, just to be safe. But he almost certainly didn’t want that, and he seems to be well enough at the moment to go home.

  14. Everything in life is a calculated risk. Safety-ism is a 21st-century pseudo-religion.

  15. “They are the ones for whom the image of a masked, sequestered, and subdued Biden is reassuring.”

    They don’t just think we can “eliminate all risk.” They also believe it’s a good thing to validate and even encourage fear in others. I saw a comment on a post today calling Trump reckless and a poor leader to tell people not to be afraid of COVID19. But why wouldn’t a good leader tell people not to be afraid? Doesn’t a good leader inspire courage in his people?

    Trump merits some criticism to be sure, but ironically his opponents seem to be asking for worse.

  16. “The only thing to fear, is fear itself.”
    But that was before we knew the enemy was inside the wire . . . and I’m not talking about the virus.

  17. Well, I’m over 70 and I do not live in fear of death. Granted, I am in good health and a stubborn SOB. But only fools fear death, That is silly, none born escapes death.. I belive absolutely nothing that comes from media touted experts and their models. The term that comes to mind is SWAG, promoting a political agenda

    Yes, take reasonable precautions as opposed to the chicken little approach to avoid the paralyzing effects of fear of death. ” Nothing to fear but fear itself.”

    Be of good cheer, Be positive. Do not doubt yourself. Do not be a cowardly fool. Embrace death when your time comes.

  18. This episode has certainly made me feel much better about the possibility of getting cured of the virus. Being 87 and with comorbidities, I assumed I was a dead man if infected. Now that I see that there is apparently successful, aggressive treatment available. the question is, can I get it? Here in Washington you must have symptoms to get tested. The test takes two days to give results. If it takes four to seven days for symptoms to appear, and you add two more days for results, that puts you at six to nine days since infection. Here, you will not be admitted to the hospital until you have pneumonia symptoms. By then, the virus is well established in your lungs. Too late for the antibodies and Remdesvir. At that point it is high pressure oxygen, dexamethasone, heparin, and hope. If it gets worse, the ventilator is the last ditch. At least that’s the way I understand it. The doctors here are recommending out-patient treatment of rest, liquids, and tylenol for the fever. For the vulnerable, that’s probably not going to help all that much. I’ve got my C, D, Zn, Quercetin, and Pepcid ready and hope it will help.

    IMO, old, vulnerable people should get aggressive treatment ala POTUS as soon as they have symptoms and get a positive test from the 15 minute Abbot test. I think that would save lives. But Washington state just received their first shipment of the Abbot 15 minute tests today. Our governor will hoard those tests and only provide them to his favored constituencies. Will the example of successful, aggressive treatment for POTUS be copied here. I doubt it. It doesn’t fit the official narrative that allows them to control the peeps.

    It’s still necessary for my wife and me to do what we can to avoid the virus. It’s still very dangerous for us.

  19. J.J.:

    That sounds dreadful. I wonder – if you felt you needed a test and early treatment, could you drive to a neighboring state to qualify for earlier intervention?

  20. J.J.:
    Washington State is peopled by many educated losers, at least when I was there for a wedding. Nominally educated but shiftless, unrooted and all Leftists, biased and ill-informed.
    It seems clear the State sets the standards for care in and out of hospitals, including admission. Insley does not care for the people in WA. He rules like a Caligula, or a Whitmer.
    Maybe the “stand-in-line” approach to good care, and the inevitable deaths, will maybe push the survivors to collect themselves and form a more perfect government. WA has been fat city too long. Pride cometh before a fall.

  21. “(now that I’m 64).” – Tom Grey

    But will we still need you, will we still feed you?

    Of course!

    On the day Kennedy was shot, our 6th grade class was listening to the parade on a radio. Our teacher had hoped to give us a real-life social-studies lesson, but that wasn’t the one he was expecting.

    Ten years later, when I was a TA in graduate school, one of my colleagues asked her class a question she had used for years as a high-school teacher (before going back to school for a doctorate) hoping to give her classes some historical perspective: “Where were you when Kennedy was shot?” she asked. After a slight pause, one of the college students timidly replied, “We were in kindergarten.”

  22. Following on from some posts linked above by others:
    Captain America sends pizzas to his fans
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/know-trump-meat-awesome-president-trump-buys-hundreds-pizzas-day-long-supporters-outside-walter-reed-medical-center-video/

    President Trump has been buying his supporters pizza every 45 minutes!

    “You know it’s from Trump because the pizza isn’t gluten free. There’s meat on it. Trump’s an alpha.”

    Via Zerohedge (another reprint) — long recitation of the timelines, and critical of Trump’s decision because he made other people assume a risk he knew about but they didn’t. Not good optics, but also not something we should avoid knowing (that’s what Democrats do).

    https://thegreatrecession.info/blog/president-trump-and-white-house-imperiled-by-own-culture-of-invincibility/

    However, logical though this seems, it doesn’t prove anything about the spread.
    But it does give circumstantial support to some of the theories.
    (I personally like the one that says the press gave the virus to WH staff first.)

  23. I apologize for the length; there are several points in all of this.

    I was born in 1949. During my childhood in the 1950s, we were worried about a lot of diseases: polio, strep throat, rheumatic fever, different forms of meningitis, scarlet fever, mumps, measles, German measles, chickenpox, seasonal flu, to name but a few. We went about our life, went to school, went to youth baseball, football, and hockey games, swam in possibly polio-infested lakes, rivers, oceans, and in neighborhood pools, and lived life.

    My littlest brother, David, died of birth defects. My father died when I was 7, in 1956, He was 36, I had an emergency appendectomy and almost died. My two older brothers had rheumatic fever and cerebral meningitis, and my younger brother, who was viewed as too young for the new polio vaccine we older kids received, actually got polio. In our family, a horrible concomitance of serious illnesses. People today would look with horror. Obviously, we kids had no chance.

    Yet my too older brothers fought in Viet Nam (USMC) in 1967-1969. The Tet Offensive, the Siege of Hue, and Khe Sanh. Bronze Stars, several Purple Hearts, and many decorations, ribbons, and medals.

    I started UCLA in Mathematics and Physics. My oldest brother came home safely, went back to UCLA to finish his doctorate in Oriental Languages and Philosophy, walked across a street one day and was hit by a car and killed. He survived his childhood and Viet Nam, but a Southern California street was too much.

    My second older brother came home and the doctor told us quietly that we should make his next holiday the best one ever, because it would be his last. With care, he lived for the next forty years, albeit growing more and more damaged, his body giving out. He went to UCLA, designed angioplasty and other techniques for Siemens, taught all over the world, yet with each year requiring more and more care, until he spent more time each year in the VA hospital than at home. When he died, the VA ruled his death 100% damage from Viet Nam and Agent Orange.

    And my younger brother with Polio? His legs are incredibly thin, but he played high school football and baseball, was drafted by the Dodgers but preferred football, played football at UCLA (The Mark Harmon Years), then rugby at UCLA, and even went to Graduate School (History of Science) just so he could keep playing rugby, National Collegiate Championships, Western Hemisphere Championship, UCLA Rugby Tours of Great Britain and Australia.

    No one closed down anything, everyone went to school, businesses flourished, church was attended, diseases were caught and suffered, life was lived.

  24. Minta, what an extraordinary story. What a family!

    Truly, “…Life to the lees…”

    Thanks very much.

  25. An interesting side-bar is developing with the revelation of so much infection among Republicans: the Democrats are exhibiting a quasi-religious (because they are atheists) appeal to divine retribution.

    David Foster commented earlier about the mystic yearnings of the Left, and the history of “the fanatic religious and ritualistic search for purity of the Middle Ages, ethnic purity included.”

    https://www.thenewneo.com/2020/10/02/dostoevskys-demons-and-orwells-hate/#comment-2518098

    Doc Zero brings the doctrine up to date.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1313095549185413121.html

    The basic idea that the virus is a form of divine punishment for failing to implement and obey the “right” policies is clearly false – there are far too many case surges in places that did everything “right” – but it’s irresistible for believers in centralized authority.

    It also has some appeal to the public, because they want a frightening and confusing epidemic to be made simpler. Do X, Y, and Z and you won’t get the virus; if you got the virus, you must have failed to do X, Y, and Z. It’s comforting because it’s simpler than the truth.

    This is a very old compulsion, going all the way back to using supernatural mythology to explain the weather and natural disasters. Please the gods and there will be no famine; if there is famine, you must have displeased the gods. We hunger for simplicity and assurance.

    The inherent problem with such ways of thinking is they invite mob psychosis. People who think famine was caused by displeasing the gods become violently angry at suggestions to the contrary. Those who profit from the enforced belief system will eagerly fan the flames of anger.

    The enforced belief system quickly acquires heavy moral overtones. Obedience is righteous; disobedience is sinful and evil. Debates become one-sided crusades. Information that contradicts the simplified, moralistic belief system is suppressed.

    Human beings have a great appetite for living this way. It’s not entirely irrational. People working hard to provide for their families just want to know a simple formula for living safely, a clear set of procedures they can follow to make everything be okay.

    The coronavirus is dangerously useful to people who want to create fusions of ideology and morality, people who seek to forcibly restore faith in authority after it fell to an all-time low, and those who assert the superiority of centralized control over individual freedoms.

    Brendan O’Neill cites the acolytes. (paragraphing added)
    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/05/and-a-plague-shall-cover-the-land-of-trump/

    Dowd isn’t the only Trump-basher getting all Biblical over Covid’s visitation upon the White House. Across the commentariat and the Twittersphere there is much Schadenfreude that the man who scoffed at the idea that he should change his entire life in response to a virus must now meekly, weakly watch as the virus has ‘come to his door’.

    ‘It’s hard to overlook the symbolism of Trump’s positive test’, says one writer. The president who ‘recklessly and flagrantly disregarded science and factual information’ has had his viral comeuppance. We have some ‘justification’ for considering Trump’s contraction of coronavirus ‘to be a kind of karmic retribution’, says a writer for the Guardian. It is retribution, he suggests, for Trump’s ‘irresponsible pursuit of partisan advantage over the national interest’.

    ‘Karmic retribution’ is of course only a slightly more PC, hippyish way to say what people in medieval times thought about plagues: that they were divine punishment. Punishment of avaricious individuals or of entire sinful communities. A key metaphor in this pre-modern understanding of plagues-as-retribution was that these judgmental diseases were inescapable.

    No one – not Pharaohs, not the wealthy, not even a reality-TV star who becomes the most powerful man in the world – could hide from their pox-ridden reprimands. As Susan Sontag writes in her masterful AIDS and its Metaphors (1989), the pre-modern view of disease as retribution was an ‘essential vehicle for the most pessimistic reading’ of humanity’s capacity. ‘[T]he standard plague story was of inexorability, inescapability’, she wrote.

    This insistence on inescapability, on the plague as discoverer of all sinners, wherever they cower and lurk, infuses the cynically joyous commentary on Trump’s illness. ‘Fate leads the willing, Seneca said, while the unwilling get dragged’, writes Dowd. Fate. That pre-Renaissance idea. It’s back.

    Heather Mac Donald presents a solid skeptic heresy, though.
    https://www.city-journal.org/trump-coronavirus-diagnosis-models-positive-masculinity
    “Given his governmental duties, the surprise is that Trump—as president, another kind of front-line worker—has not gotten sick before now.”

  26. JJ, I felt you were older than me in generations… but that is rather ancient, grandbrother. There’s always healing options from energy healers. They work a lot better.

    Cap’n Rusty on October 5, 2020 at 11:46 pm said:
    “The only thing to fear, is fear itself.”
    But that was before we knew the enemy was inside the wire . . . and I’m not talking about the virus.

    Wait until people realize that the Demoncrat alliance uses Leftists for treason. And wait until they realize the Deep State is using the Demoncrats. And wait until they realize the vampiric elite Cabal is using the Deep State.

    it’s like the Russian dolls inside a doll.

  27. Minta brought to mind what it was like being a kid in the 50s and early 60s. You should be commended for enduring your life’s tragedies Minta.
    We children of the 50s contracted measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, and lived with polio in the back of our minds. But we lived without fear. Some kids died tragically. There were no shutdowns. We also lived with the threat of nuclear annihilation hanging over our heads. I remember the A-bomb drills. Hiding under our desks or lining up against the wall in the hallways at school. Afraid? Nope. The only time I was slightly afraid was during the Cuban missile crisis. Other than that, we lived.
    Also, we rode our bikes without helmets and kneepads, got bruised, scraped and cut. Played tackle football without helmets or shoulder pads. And most of us are still alive.
    Be not afraid. I ain’t.

  28. “Afraid? Nope.”

    I find that so striking because we’re now in a world where fear – particularly young people’s fear – is catered to and weaponized. You have to regulate guns because think of the poor schoolchildren who have to go through active shooter drills. Stop global warming because a teenager is crying in front of the UN.

    You’re not even supposed to tell people not to be afraid, or point out the reasons why they shouldn’t be afraid. If people are in fear for their lives because Trump is president, you should let them live in fear and not attempt to reason with them. If people are afraid that the police are hunting down black men, you must not use hard evidence to discourage this fear. If people are afraid of a virus, you must not give them common-sense reasons why they shouldn’t be afraid, but again you must let them live in fear, and actually, you’re a bad person if you don’t share this fear. Maybe this has to do with society’s focus on emotions over facts, but it’s probably more than that… fear is a powerful tool, fear gives you control over people; courageous, strong, optimistic people are hard to control.

  29. I remember the Kennedy murder very well. I was working at a satellite tracking station at South Point, Hawaii, the southern most point in the US. We lived in Naalehu, which was just a wide spot on the road from Hilo to Kona. There was no laundromat there so we drove to Hilo on the weekend to do our laundry. That Saturday we drove to Hilo to do our laundry and found the town closed down. We found a bar that was open and went in and that was when we learned that Kennedy had been assassinated. I didn’t get my laundry done and that is why I remember it was on Saturday, but I couldn’t tell you the date.

  30. I don’t think Trump went back to the White House too soon. Unlike my house, he has medical staff on duty 24/7, and will receive his fifth infusion of Remdesivir there today. And perhaps we all discount the sustaining presence of his wife.

    J.J., it would not be too late for you to get Remdesivir and the steroid if you have to go to the hospital. The question, following Trump’s experience, is whether it might be better to begin giving these earlier to high risk patients. Like you, I’ve got the OTC meds ready, just in case.

  31. Minta, what a tale! Your family has a great deal of strength.

    shadow, it’s a good point you make. Do you think it’s a matter of the quality or nature of people’s fears changing, or is it that something else that was in society acting as a moderator or counterbalance has been removed or drained off?

  32. minta: Your athlete brother’s story reminds me of Glen Cunningham, one of the greatest American milers.

    Cunningham was severely burned in a schoolhouse fire (which killed his brother), so badly the doctors recommended amputating both legs. He refused and worked and worked, first on walking, then on running and became a top track star. He set world records for the mile in the 1930s.

    In later life he and his wife ran a ranch for for needy and abused youths. His favorite Bible verse:
    _________________________________________________

    But those who wait on the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint.

    –Isaiah 40:31
    _________________________________________________

    These days I don’t seem to often hear inspiring stories like Cunnngham’s or Minta’s family for that matter. Instead we get these endless victim narratives.

  33. Neo, it’s four to five hours to Coeur D’Alene, Idaho, and two and a half hours to Portland, Oregon. Oregon’s policies are worse than Washington’s. Idaho, I don’t know about. Quite a drive for a person with Covid-19 and not knowing what lies ahead. We’re pretty much stuck with the local policies.

    Kate, thanks for the info about remdesvir being used during the later stages. I didn’t know that.

    Cicero, it’s amazing to me that so many residents of Washington are hard core lefties. The actions of the Seattle mayor and city council in defunding the police and not stopping the riots would seem to be political suicide. Unfortunately, not in the Seattle area. Twenty-seven years ago when we first arrived, the place was a much more moderate state. Most of the lefties were in the Seattle -Tacoma area. Today, Bellingham, Everett, and Spokane (the other major cities) are all governed by Democrats. Everett has just lost some Boeing production to South Carolina. Unless the pols here begin to realize that being anti-business and not protecting businesses from rioters, more businesses will leave.

    Since the pandemic began and the riots have swirled out of control, my wife and I have talked about moving elsewhere, but we are just too danged old to pick up and move to Idaho, South Dakota, or Wyoming. Staying put and staying on guard. Que sera, sera.

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  35. J.J. I am told, reliably, that Vitamin D, Vitamin C, Zinc, and Quercetin (apparently works like HCQ but available over the counter) are good preventives or amelioratives. The vitamins you can take routinely, the Zinc and Quercetin probably as well, or wait till you think you might have been exposed. I have a stash at home ready to start on. Of course I am not a doctor, so this is not medical advice, and you should probably consult with your doctor on this.

  36. the Democrats are exhibiting a quasi-religious (because they are atheists) appeal to divine retribution.

    The Democrats are atheists, maybe. Theists (i.e. God – no, gods – yes, and mortal gods, certainly), probably. They are predominantly from the Progressive Church with a Twilight faith (i.e. conflation of logical domains); Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic, politically congruent (“=”) quasi-religion (“ethics”); and liberal (i.e. divergent) ideology. They mock and appeal to faith in turn when it serves their purposes.

  37. Minta:

    Thanks for telling the story of your strong family.

    I am of your generation and younger generations today probably have no idea what it was like as recently as our childhood. And my grandmother tried to tell me what it was like for her generation, born in the 1880s. Suffice to say it was a lot harder in term of disease.

  38. J.J.-
    It is not about being anti-business. It is about law and order.It is about civilization.

  39. “And my grandmother tried to tell me what it was like for her generation, born in the 1880s. Suffice to say it was a lot harder in term of disease.”

    Not to go off-topic, but genealogy is a good way to put that into perspective. I was doing some research for a friend and found a case in her family tree from the mid-1800s that illustrated reality, as we once knew it. Out of a large family, a couple of teenagers were the only survivors when their siblings and parents all died within a week’s time of one of the contagious illnesses that used to be a part of life. This was just another Tuesday for humans up until very recent generations.

  40. Then there’s the classic story of Calvin Coolidge’s son, who developed a toe blister while playing on the White House lawn. The blister became a staph infection, entered his blood and became septic.

    The 16 year-old boy was dead within a week.

  41. Quercetin (apparently works like HCQ but available over the counter).

    They act as border guards: facilitating entry of Zn (i.e. inhibits viral reproduction), and limiting infiltration of the virus.

  42. Minta Marie, thank you for sharing that amazing family history of successes and sorrows. Such perspective for our times.

    J. J. I’m sorry for the lack of available testing in your area. Here in So. Cal. I see testing places all over. The one a few blocks from our home is set up in the parking lot of the mall. A huge space with all kinds of trailers/cones etc. It has been about 4 weeks that I see it at least once/week and have yet to see anyone there.

    The evening my husband came down with COVID-19 on March 26th he had been in a meeting at the office with 2 fellow workers (one 65 yrs. old, the other 43 yrs). The table is 6 ft. long, in closed quarters in a poorly-ventilated building (1970’s, needing new HVAC, no windows that can be opened). They met for about an hour. He was in bed with what we believed to be a cold within 2 hours of that meeting. He coughed through the night (didn’t wake or deter his sleep) and woke w/a fever in the morning. I came down with it in exactly the same way 2 days later. My point is, no masks, early on and those 2 men went into quarantine on March 31 in response to my husband’s positive test but neither one ever got it and never have, though post-quarantine they have been on the job (residential construction) since.

    As for the virus, despite my husband’s near death because of his sleep-apnea induced hypoxia making his case serious due to being turned away at the hospital on day 7, we did not fear it before, during and now after.

    One of the things I admire most about our President is that he is a man of courage. That has been exemplified for me by his ability to take the white-hot hatred of his adversaries and keep on going. Short of a miraculous intervention of God on my behalf I don’t think I could.

  43. Masks;
    I live in NZ and it has been strict about COVID, but there is not noticeable mask wearing. There has been a lot of homemade mask making. During our 4 week lockdown a very nice neighbour made masks and put them in her mailbox for free. With the recent Auckland cases of COVID, one of our neighbour’s daughters made at least 100 masks and sold all of them for five dollars each. We all received or bought masks. I haven’t seen anyone wearing them. Our Prime Minister never demanded people to wear masks (except on planes, trains, and buses, but not school buses – all schools are open here) but encouraged ‘only’ Aucklanders to wear them when they were shopping indoors. The PM also encouraged going for a walk and getting fresh air. There is an election in NZ and with the exception on a couple of campaign signs sprayed with graffiti and MAGA (make Ardern go away) bumper stickers, no rioting, no destruction is occurring.

    I have mailed my USA vote and voted straight red. I voted for candidates that I don’t like as a protest against the direction the Dems are taking the Country. I watch and read about what is happing in America half away around the world and I am appalled at the incompetence and brazenness of the the Democratic Party. The States have Dems that are like Ardern (Tulsi) that are not crazy, care about the citizens and are not nasty human beings. But the Democrat Party and their leadership, plus there media idiots need a ‘good’ shellacking this 2020 election.

  44. Re: masks…

    JHCorcoran: Today PJM has an article with great graphs on the lack of correlation between mask regulations and daily infections.

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/10/06/do-masks-really-work-heres-what-the-charts-tell-us-n1009481

    I consider it possible, even likely, that if everyone scrubbed down and masked up like a surgeon going into surgery it would make a difference, but of course that’s not how masking works in the real world.

  45. huxley – the only rational conclusion from those graphs is that wearing masks causes infections to increase.
    Without any comparative graphs charting the course of infections in places that had NO masking, they are essentially meaningless, because we don’t have a base-line from which to actually measure the contribution of masking to cases.

    Of course, the really meaningful statistic is “new hospitalizations” – since the new cases consists of those plus mildly ill people plus asymptomatic people.
    I would have added “false positives” but that needs the caveat of “depending on the test done” — apparently there are a lot which are cranked up so high they catch dead virus particles, in addition to live infectious viral RNA.
    (I read it somewhere recently) if one of the reliable tests comes up positive, you really do have the disease.
    However, if any test comes up negative, guess again – and keep taking precautions whether those involve masks or not.

  46. Huxley,

    Great graphs! Thank you for the link. It is a school break in NZ and I am in a very crowded cafe with wall to wall people that consist of kids, parents, and grandparents. Not one mask.

    The health minister Ashley Bloomfield is very sensible about these things.

    Sharon W,

    Wishing you and husband good health soon!

    I agree our President is a man of courage.

  47. JHCorcoran: I’m in a university neighborhood where couples wear masks while walking their dogs on our mostly-deserted streets. Or even solo. WTF?

    One friend at my cafe pulls his seat out another six inches when I sit down without a mask, even though I’m careful to pull my chair back when I sit down.

  48. Cicero: “It is about law and order. It is about civilization.”
    True dat. No nation or society ever prospers that doesn’t protect private property through laws that are enforced by the police and courts. I have been in quite a few of those nations.

    Sharon W., feel blessed that you have easily available testing. (Not that you need it now. Praise the Lord.) We have two drive through sites here in Snohomish County, which is fairly large geographically and with 800.000 people. Other medical offices provide testing, but they are limited. The numbers of cases here are up somewhat over the summer lows, but still quite low. Except for restaurants and gyms things are pretty much open now. Traffic is as congested as before the pandemic. Mask compliance is pretty high. I seldom see anyone without one. Glad you and your husband are doing well.

  49. Huxley: The States media has instilled so much fear. I am sure there is a lot of mask wearing in my former University Town. No body wants Covid, but a lot of the suggestions to prevent it remind me of TSA at the airports. People do not feel safer. I am hoping that all the people in Trumps orbit have a full recovery and maybe common sense will prevail.

  50. Eh, that’s well into the Late Period when Egyptian civilization had gone decadent and they were ruled by one set of foreigners after another. For a *real* curse you’d want a mummy around 4000 years old at least.

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