Jacob Blake unarmed – except for that knife under on his car floorboard on the driver’s side
[Please see ADDENDUM below for clarification.]
I have never seen a headline like this pic.twitter.com/tb0Ao8hxgc
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) August 27, 2020
I’ve read several articles about Blake’s knife, and the reporting doesn’t make the situation at all clear. Earlier reports said that eyewitnesses had stated that police were yelling at Blake to drop the knife [see ADDENDUM below], and I even saw some screenshots of him allegedly with a knife in his hand. That sort of thing is absent from current stories and I have no idea whether the initial reports were correct or not.
In addition, many of the most recent articles articles reporting on the presence of the knife first state that the knife was found “on the scene” – which could mean a lot of different things – and later add that it was found under [correction: “on”] the floorboard of the driver’s side of the car. I’ve yet to see an article in the MSM that clearly states the possible significance of the floorboard finding – which is that, when shot, Blake had just opened the driver’s side door and was bending over and reaching down.
In other words, one can conclude it was highly possible that he was going for the knife. Knives can be very very deadly, and he had already shown his willingness to fight with police. In addition, it’s possible and even probable that by that point the police were well aware of Blake’s arrest record – which is alleged to have included “one felony count of resisting arrest causing a soft tissue injury to a police officer and one misdemeanor count each of carrying a concealed weapon, carrying a firearm while intoxicated, endangering safety-use of a dangerous weapon, and disorderly conduct.”
Another thing the articles don’t make clear is what was going on to cause the police to be called in the first place. The Blake family lawyer – the seemingly ubiquitous Ben Crump – has reported that Blake was shot “after he tried to break up an argument between two women.” But that part of the story seems to have evaporated as though it had never been uttered. Now what we see is this sort of thing:
DOJ officials said Kenosha police were dispatched to a residence near 28th Street and 40th Avenue after a female caller reported that her boyfriend was present and was not supposed to be on the premises.
During the incident, officers attempted to arrest Blake, 29.
Dots, unconnected. It seems reasonable to come to the preliminary conclusion that Jacob Blake may indeed have been the boyfriend in question. I will add that my guess is that the woman making the call was the same person who had been involved in reporting the incident or incidents for which there was a warrant out for Blake’s arrest, and that this is why police attempted to arrest him after the recent call – either that, or because he was acting aggressively, or at the very least violating a restraining order.
I could be wrong, of course. But such speculations are certainly not a stretch.
More from the article about the knife:
During the investigation following the initial incident, Blake “admitted that he had a knife in his possession,” officials said.
DCI agents recovered a knife from the driver’s side floorboard of Blake’s vehicle. A search of the vehicle located no additional weapons.
The part about Blake’s admission concerning the knife is a curious passage. When did he admit he had a knife? What does “in his possession” mean? Did he tell the police there was a knife in the car? Is that considered “possession”? Is that why they were trying to tase him and then to wrestle him down? Did he say he was going to get it anyway? Did he threaten to harm them with it?
Not only is that article murky, but I’ve read several others that are even more unclear. I believe that this is apparently because the Wisconsin DOJ statement itself was vague on these points. But what about some reporters doing some independent investigation? Surely there are ways to find out a few more things?
Not many people seem to understand the danger posed by a person who gets hold of a knife and acts quickly, especially when close:
Most inexperienced people do not have appropriate respect for knives and other edged weapons because they are surrounded by them,” said Grissom, who has been in law enforcement for 28 years and a police trainer for nearly 25. “A firearm is only deadly in one direction: wherever the muzzle is pointed. If I can keep the muzzle off of me, it can’t hurt me. Once in close quarters, a knife is a far more efficient weapon than a firearm.”
Beyond that, he said, most people are experienced in the use of a knife.
“Anyone who has ever cut a steak, chopped ice or opened a box with a sharp object is completely proficient in killing another human being with a knife,” Grissom said. “Age and training are almost irrelevant with a close-quarter edged weapon attack.”
Because of the threat posed by a knife, it is classified by law as a deadly weapon just like a firearm. And, Grissom said, there is no hard and fast rule for the distance at which a knife is dangerous.
“There is no ‘magic distance’ that a knife-wielding assailant becomes less of a threat,” he said. “A knife is obviously a contact weapon, so in order for it to be effective an assailant must close within the weapon’s effective range. Many officers were/are taught a very general ’21-foot rule’ based on some research attributed to Dennis Tueller from Salt Lake City.”
That rule says it takes between 1.5 and 2 seconds for an officer with a duty-style holster to draw and present a gun. Meanwhile, it takes an aggressive assailant armed with a contact weapon – knife or club – the same length of time to cover 21 feet and use it on the officer.
As such, officers are taught to keep distance, he said. A suspect charging with a knife, then, presents a real threat.
“Officers are generally trained to create distance and/or put obstacles between themselves and an assailant they know possesses a contact weapon,” Grissom said. “Many officers receive training in knife defense tactics, but these tactics are designed to be used to protect oneself from a spontaneous attack with a previously undetected weapon.”
I believe that in Blake’s case the officer already had his weapon unholstered. I’m not sure whether that matters at all. And yes, it’s legal to possess a knife in a car or even on one’s person. But it’s not okay to go for one when you’re resisting arrest.
The police had always used a taser, to no avail. They had also physically grappled with him, and failed to restrain him. Now he was defying their verbal orders and walking purposefully toward the car and reaching in and bending down. Not only that, but there were children in the car. A split-second decision had to be reached. It’s so very easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback, but most of the people opining have no idea what it’s like to be in the position of these police officers. I certainly don’t, and I’m glad of it.
ADDENDUM: Several commenters have pointed out something that adds another dimension to my speculation about what happened with the knife. I initially had read in some article or other that the knife was found under the floorboard (or maybe under the floormat?), which indicated to me that Blake had hidden it somewhere for emergencies and was reaching for it when he was shot. That made it confusing when I also read that initially people had reported that the cops were shouting for him to drop the knife. But then I realized that the DOJ had actually indicated that the knife was found on the floorboard (“recovered a knife from the driver’s side floorboard”), which suddenly made a great deal more sense. It also – as several commenters pointed out – made it possible to imagine that Blake had been carrying the knife all along and dropped it on the floorboard when shot. I believe the latter is the proper interpretation.
A car also qualifies as a dangerous weapon. If Blake could get the car started, it could kill more easily than a gun or knife.
Or, you can look at it this way. Blake had the knife when first encountered by the police. He may have brandished it, hence the orders to “drop the knife” that some claim was made. Having the knife might have been contrary to the conditions of his probation; many who have been convicted of crimes have probation “tails”, whether they were incarcerated for their misdeeds or not.
His battle to escape long enough (at the least) to get to the car was so he could jettison the knife and then claim he never had one. The info about his admitting possession of the knife was described as “during the investigation following the initial incident”. I would assume this was at the hospital where he was treated, and that he had personal possession while initially dealing with police. I doubt he would have been initially brandishing it at police; if so, he would have been shot sooner.
I forget whether I posted this yet on thenewneo.com:
I think this is what might have happened:
1. The police officers knew Blake had a knife in his hand while they were scuffling with him.
2. The police officers knew that there were kids in the car and were concerned that Blake would do harm to the kids.
3. When Blake was diving into the car, with the knife in his hand, the police officers shot Blake to protect the kids.
4. The knife was found on the floorboard because that is where Blake dropped it as a result of being shot.
From
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake/index.html
“The man’s three children — 3, 5 and 8 — were in the car, a family attorney said.”
From
https://bluelivesmatter.blue/did-jacob-blake-have-a-weapon-we-examine-the-facts/
“Screenshots from the incident show what appears to be a curved-blade knife, such as a Karambit.”
From
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8668375/Jacob-Blake-KNIFE-cops-shot-says-Wisconsin-AG.html
“In the incident officers yelled for Blake to ‘drop the knife’ as they followed him around the car.”
Another Mike; Ira:
I had originally thought that the DOJ of Wisconsin said it was found under the car’s floorboard (or floormat). I think I read that in some report. But I see now that it says “on” the floorboard. That’s interesting, and means he could have dropped it.
If the cops were protecting the children, that would be quite a stunning reversal of the narrative. Not that the people who already think the cops were evil would ever believe the new story.
This one really could have used a bodycam of the entire encounter, with a transcript.
It seems to me that under the car’s floorboard would be under the car. They must have meant either under the seat or under the floor mat or something.
Oops I see Neo’s update now.
This video of July 14 is chilling evidence of what a guy w/ a knife can do. Notice how the attacker jams the officer’s weapon, forcing her to clear the jam and rack her weapon. She was fighting for her life.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/michigan-man-shot-and-killed-by-deputy-after-covid-mask-dispute-stabbing-video/
Re: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. In a Milwaukee suburb last week I saw, on one corner, a house with a Biden sign and a newspaper delivery box with a Journal Sentinel in it. On the next corner were three Trump signs and a newspaper box with a toy dinosaur inside, which I took to be a comment on the value of the Journal Sentinel.
Is there a toxicology report on Blake yet?
Drugs like modern marijuana can cause people being arrested to act in a crazy, paranoid manner.
Most of these shootings can be avoided by simply following the police officers orders. Period. Follow orders.
Interesting question, JFM. Blake survived; whether they do drug tests in these situations is something I don’t know.
All that should be required to justify the shooting is that he was reaching in his car. Not relevant whether there is actually a weapon. He is clearly a danger and the cops should not have to wait for him to brandish a gun. That’s a great way to end up dead.
This is really important for people to grasp — we aren’t interested in cops and crooks having a “fair fight”. The very real possibility that he could be reaching for a gun should be enough for the cops to defend themselves. If he grabs and shoots, the cop could be dead before he ever sees the gun. To demand that type of reticence from the cops is beyond stupid.
The thug is totally in the wrong. He’s made himself an obvious danger to the cops and bystanders. He’s been violent. He refuses to cooperate. And he’s reaching in the car. That’s enough. That HAS to be enough. Regardless of whether there was actually a gun or other weapon in the car.
All doubt should be resolved against the criminal because he’s responsible for creating the dangerous situation. Police work is already dangerous enough without increasing the risks of death or life-altering injury. Anyone in the same situation as the cop would be justified in thinking that there was a serious chance he was reaching for a gun. The cop should not have to die before he knows for sure.
Yeah, but these juries are made up of stupid people. I sat on a jury where a felon high on drugs Was driving around with a *gun* on the floorboard, pulled over in front of the *police station* in wilm, De, and I was the only person who voted to convict for possession by a person prohibited. I live in the suburbs, so it isn’t personal to me if the guy is free to shoot up the city high on drugs. This is the problem: they cry and b go to vigils but are Already so anti police that they feel sorry for the guy on drugs driving up 4th street with a gun under the seat. I kind of blame the OJ trial. We are actually doomed, because the solution would be to try to take rights away from stupid people, which we obviously can’t do and still be free.
John Keegan, Brit military historian, referred to studies that the human instinctively flinches from edged weapons. We’ve been dealing with sharp edges for a million years. We know.
And the lack of noise, flash, smoke doesn’t mean it’s not deadly Monday morning QB rarely take this into account.
If somebody in Blake’s position gets a knife in his hand and spins with the thing held out, the cop has less than a second to decide and to shoot. If he’s late, the thing slash across….his face?
Does the cop even have the time?
I have seen comments that the knife was a karambit.
Here is Doug Marcaida (Forged in Fire “It will Keel” guy) demonstrating such a weapon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7TPa1eQ8w
Neo,
Lets set the stage a bit.
Subject had previous run in with the law for resisting arrest. He was armed with a knife. He was at a woman’s residence who had requested he be removed. Officers then show up and he resists. So this is what we know ahead of the video.
Officers deployed a TASER. Which most likely fails for 2 reasons. 1) It was a poor shot and the barbs were misplaced. 2) the barbs were properly placed but Blake was on some sort of drug that allowed him to resist.
After all this he gets to the car. You have very few choices at this point.
1) Redeploy a Taser that was ineffective the first time
2) Use a Chemical irritant (its unknown if they are issued to these officers). Which runs the same risks as a taser. But is even less effective for IMMEDIATELY stopping the subject.
3) Attempt to get him to submit hands on. Which then opens the officers involved to extreme danger should he choose to use the knife.
4) Let him go and try to use patrol cars to box him in to de-fuse the threat
5) Shoot him
So back to our choices. 1) has proven ineffective. 2) if available may prove ineffective and would not immediately stop him from gaining access to the vehicle in any case. 3) would have put any officer in mortal danger. 4) Cannot be used due to the presence of the 3 children in the car. As officers have zero idea what his intentions are to them at this point. He cannot be allowed access back into the vehicle.
This leaves them only with option 5.
The press could bring anyone on with police training. Who could point these facts out. But good luck with that. As it does nothing to assist in them telling their “narrative” ie stereotypes to the public at large.
There is an extremely common thread here, and it is black violence and black disregard for authority. Not just males either.
It must be recognized, accepted and dealt with. These are not people who, given different circumstances, would have made model citizens. They are in fact different.
Maybe twenty years ago there were two black Princeton students, highly regarded, pretty intelligent, secure in life, who just went out and committed recreational murder. I remember the NYT puzzling over their motives. Why would they do it when Wall St awaited?
Perhaps there is a higher number of sociopaths in the black population. Could that be it? Well, yes it could; just like a higher incidence of hypertension or whatever.
Knives can be very dangerous. Just check out what’s happening over in London for some examples.
There was a black rap group in the 80’s known as N.W.A. (Blank With Attitude )Having done 3 ride alongs with the local police on Friday nights We ran across many many NWA’s. It is getting worse. Many of them are on parole and if they’re caught in a felony situation they go back to jail and don’t pass go or collect $200. One of the ride alongs was with two black officers. They got 3 times the abuse from blacks
Knives are extremely dangerous at close encounters A cut at the arteries or several stabs at the gut is instant game over but of course the democrats will pretend knives are harmless.
They lie.
They lie all the time.
They’ve been lying (like this) for most of the past 15 years.
The default position is that they’re telling you lies. And then telling other lies to back up the original ones.
You have to wait a bit to sort it all out. And look at other sources of information.
But even then…
(In the following trilogy, Andrew McCarthy shows how it’s done, at least by professionals:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/08/kevin-clinesmith-guilty-plea-russia-probe-lying-about-lying/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/08/clinesmith-guilty-plea-using-a-digraph-to-conceal-a-massive-deception-of-the-court/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/08/clinesmiths-guilty-plea-the-perfect-snapshot-of-crossfire-hurricane-duplicity/ )
And speaking of lies (and justice)…. Mazel Tov to Alan Dershowitz on the 69th anniversary of his Bar Mitzvah. “Until 120”, good sir!! (Or, perhaps, the variant: “Until 100—as if you were still 20”!)
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/16421/alan-dershowitz-pursue-justice
Have you noticed that when these black criminals are shot they suddenly become saints? Did you see the funeral for saint George Floyd?
Yeah, but these juries are made up of stupid people.
Even so, police seem to get fair treatment most of the time. The cops in the Eric Garner and Michael Brown cases were acquitted, George Zimmerman was acquitted, despite the politics (or maybe because of the politics–backlash). Of course that doesn’t stop the left from keeping Garner, Brown, Martin et al in their pantheon of “victims,” but juries seem to do the right thing in these cases.
You’re a policeman trying to arrest a suspect with a warrant for his arrest. He refuses to follow orders. You tussle with him and then taze him. All to no avail. You draw your gun and tell him to stop. He doesn’t stop but attempts to get in his vehicle, which contains three children. What do you do? Is he reaching for a gun or knife in his car? Is he going to try to drive away? If you let him drive away with the three children will they be safe, especially if you follow and he engages in high speeds in an attempt to evade you? If you let him go, will he be easier to arrest tomorrow? Or will he be armed to the teeth and using his children as hostages?
These and more questions arise when police try to arrest a suspect who resists. The answers must be arrived at in seconds. Training helps, but mistakes will be made. Police are humans who want to stay alive and unharmed as much as anyone. We give them a lot of authority because they are dealing with the worst of society, doing a job most of us will not do.
Interestingly, there were over ten million arrests made in 2019. During that time only 13 unarmed black men were killed during arrests. There were, no doubt, many more cases where suspects resisted arrest, but non-lethal procedures allowed a successful outcome. Considering the number of arrests, the number of deaths of unarmed black suspects is amazingly small. It certainly does not show racial bias or an attempted holocaust against black perpetrators.
Resisting arrest is a crime. When a suspect fails to follow orders it can lead to all kinds of problems for both the cop and the suspect. The worst outcome is death or permanent injury. IMO, our leaders, particularly black leaders, should be making statements about not resisting arrest. Like public service announcements about wearing masks and social distancing, statements from leaders about not resisting arrest might change the way these tragic encounters go down. It also might are change the way these encounters are viewed by the public at large. Well, it’s a thought.
Interestingly, there were over ten million arrests made in 2019. During that time only 13 unarmed black men were killed during arrests.
And, I suspect, a similar number or greater number of unarmed white men were killed. The studies I’ve read about suggest that per encounter, the numbers are similar (in fact a bit higher for whites).
Sadly, the current narrative is focused on the police. It’s so unserious. It brings home (and soon might in a horrible way) how memes take hold and get out of control. The past couple of centuries have numerous examples.
I used to think that American collective common sense, when push came to shove, would rule the day. But with so many folks looking to the Democrat Party as their savior, I’m still hopeful but I have my doubts.
Those famous words come to mind – “. . . if you can keep it”.
Jimmy: “And, I suspect, a similar number or greater number of unarmed white men were killed.”
Yep, the number I’ve seen from 2019 is 19.
In 2019 the number of police that died from felonious acts by perps was 48.
More detail on the police killings here: https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty
Resisting arrest ought to be a five to ten year sentence. Assaulting a cop should be an automatic 15 to 25. Killing a policeman should be an automatic death sentence with only one appeal allowed. Time to start protecting our police.
J.J.: ” Resisting arrest ought to be a five to ten year sentence.”
Many years ago I was an alternate juror and the defendant was charged with 3 or 4 offenses, only one of which I remember, namely “resisting arrest without violence”. At the time I thought “that is really a BS charge, how do you resist arrest without violence? How are you resisting?” But since I was the alternate I was excused and never had to deliberate with the other jurors about just what that meant. I later learned he had been convicted on all counts. If I had been an active juror in the deliberation room I might have resisted conviction on that one charge.
Given the comments made here and elsewhere, and the lack of compliance with police directives we have been seeing and discussing, I might have to rethink my attitude from back then. But does anyone here have an idea of just what such a charge might mean, and why my attitude may have been wrong?
R2L:
If you look at the George Floyd transcript, I think it’s a good case for “resisting arrest without violence.” He wouldn’t obey instructions about his hands at first. He kept falling down, wouldn’t get in the squad car, once he was in the car he wouldn’t stay in the car, etc.. He never hit the police as far as I can recall, or was violent to them. But he was a big big guy and it made it almost impossible for them to get him in the car to take him away. In fact, the position the police finally put him in – on the ground, with Chauvin’s neck on his neck or shoulder, was in order to keep him under control until the ambulance could come.