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<i>Irreversible Damage</i>: the transgender movement and young girls — 42 Comments

1. If there were any justice in this country, this quackery would be outlawed and the people profiting from put in prison. That’s all of them: the endocrinologists, the surgeons, the psychiatrists. It’s the grossest abuse of medical technology in our world today.

2. See also this discussion about Rowling.

3. “Just as an example, teenaged girls who take male hormones experience a deepening of the voice that is ordinarily irreversible.”

   Depends on how far they go. According to some opinions (like mine), the world would be a better place if we had a bit more contralto around. That doesn’t hurt women in the least. Bass baritones, on the other hand, are a bit too much. Usually.

4. Don’t forget the parent/mothers who like to show how woke they are. Why aren’t normal parents standing up to their school boards that permit this stuff? And why aren’t they monitoring the kids cell phone activity- or taking them away?

5. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the leading pediatrician voice, has not come out against this crap.
   Maybe someone should ask Fauci about the transgender push.
   We are seeing the same pussy-footed response in all sectors: blandness, equivocation and a refusal to defend the common American with simple common sense. It is as if DeBlasio or the mayor of Portland OR were in charge everywhere.
   Next thing you know, America is fini.

6. Well, I am of the opinion that those pushing the transgender propaganda should be declared enemies of sanity, hunted down, and bull whipped. But that is just my antiquated farm boy, insensitive POV.

   If only I ruled the world.

7. None of my progressive, ex-hippie friends buys into the trans agenda. They won’t speak publicly against it, but they don’t buy it.

   I suspect that most “normie” Americans, as Kurt Schlichter terms them, don’t either.

   As the philosopher and Nobel Laureate, Bob Dylan sang:
   ____________________________________

   Come writers and critics, who prophesize with your pen
   And keep your eyes wide, the chance won’t come again
   And don’t speak too soon, for the wheel’s still in spin
   And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s namin’
   For the loser now will be later to win

   –Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'”
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90WD_ats6eE

8. Which is to say, I believe the trans/BLM/Antifa/Weather Underground agenda has gone too far and I believe Democrats will fail in the 2020 elections.

   Few conservatives will risk the price of losing their jobs or having their cars keyed on account of a public pro-Trump stance, but in the quiet of a voting booth, they will be heard.

   …except for the possibility of a Covid mail-in vote. I do worry about that.

9. Every revolution needs its victims.

   Think of these youngsters as canon fodder for a “higher” purpose, i.e., overturning society.

   (You know, “omelets”, “breaking eggs”.)

   Antifa and BLM take their battle to the streets. For the Trans crowd, the theater of war is the schools.

   Individual and social suffering is immaterial when it comes to achieving the grand goal: undoing oppression, destroying “systemic racism”, wrecking an unjust society.

   The grand strategy—the disconnect—is of course the use of words like “human rights”, “caring”, “victim”.

   Or “anti-fascist”.

   That’s how it’s done. The “magic words” (that don’t mean at all what they hope you believe they mean). But the words are so suggestive (of virtue, of paradise).

   So seductive. Magical.

   To be sure, many psychopaths are also paranoid (and hence see themselves as victims for whom justice is vengeance against those who oppress them, IOW everyone, or most everyone).

   And these poor people MUST be “helped” by ALL good people until…until the latter begin to realize that they’re merely being used to feed the formers’ lust for control, power and ultimately destruction.

   The lesson, often learned too late, again and again.

10. “any previous discomfort in their biological sex.”
    Is there any other kind of sex except biological sex? Some years ago I read the school board policy on so called trans genders. I looked in vain for a definition of gender and how you trans it. They just assumed it existed, like Cotton Mather assumed witches existed.

11. huxley…”Few conservatives will risk the price of losing their jobs or having their cars keyed on account of a public pro-Trump stance, but in the quiet of a voting booth, they will be heard.”

    Indeed, and this points out a major danger of vote-by-mail, in addition to the risks of fraud. Someone voting at home is likely to be observed by a family member or a
    ‘helpful’ minister or activist.

12. One of my son’s high school classmates, a cute girl who we have known since both were in kindergarten, identified as male a four years ago. Her parents pumped her full of male hormones and she is now the spitting image of her father, complete with beard. If this isn’t child abuse, what is?

13. Democrats love “vote by mail”.
    In tight elections there is always the rescue of a suddenly discovered box of votes, and Lo! they are 90% Democrat votes.
    This can be easily ramped up for multiple “Purple” states.
    If we have a national mail vote in Nov., we are dead.

14. There’s a lawsuit going forward in LA about forcing an experimental drug on a boy in the juvenile system.

    A 16-year-old boy being held at a Los Angeles County juvenile hall developed enlarged breasts after he was prescribed estrogen to treat a behavioral disorder, a move that baffled doctors who said the treatment defied medical logic, according to a lawsuit filed last month.

    The teen, whose identity is being withheld because of his age, was diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder, or ODD, two days after he was arrested and housed at Eastlake Juvenile Hall in June 2019, the lawsuit said. Medical records reviewed by The Times show that the teen’s testosterone levels were “slightly high” when the doctor who diagnosed him prescribed daily doses of estrogen.

    Estrogen regulates the development of female sexual characteristics and reproduction. Men produce the hormone at much lower levels.

    After taking approximately 13 daily doses of the hormone, the teen was diagnosed with gynecomastia, defined as the enlargement or swelling of breast tissue in males whose estrogen level is too high, medical records show.

    ODD, a behavioral condition that is sometimes suffered by patients with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is normally treated with therapy, said James McGough, a professor of clinical psychiatry at UCLA.

    “Estrogen is not a treatment for ODD. I can’t be more emphatic about that,” McGough said. “You won’t find a reference anywhere that supports the use of estrogen for ODD.”

    The lawsuit described the treatment as “experimental.” The doctor who prescribed the estrogen, Danny Wang, could not be reached for comment.
    ====
    “Doctor Mengele, Code Blue. Doctor Mengele, your patient is restrained and waiting…”

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-15/teenage-boy-was-given-estrogen-developed-breast-tissue-while-in-l-a-county-juvenile-hall-lawsuit-alleges

15. I am (was by my definition) transsexual. I transitioned 30+ yrs ago with surgery 5 years into it. I was accused of being a ‘gatekeeper’ then, and recently – I tell people my opinion of their ‘transgenderism’ as it relates to transsexuals. A subset, small subset, of the transgender movement.

    As a general statement, the transsexuals I know (long ago transitioned and in many cases currently in transition) oppose medical transition for minors. I feel that the medical community has been corrupted on this issue and is, as others have pointed out, doing damage to children.

    I have generally spoken out on medical transitioning for minors in the public sphere. I don’t defend it. I reject it.

    It is being used by girls to gain acceptance. It is self destructive behavior, supported by parents and encouraged by schools and therapists. And it is the vocal Trans-Activists that are getting the attention (they crave). The TS community is too small (.1% at most) to gain a voice over the larger TG activists – but know we are here and speaking.

16. I have generally spoken out on medical transitioning for minors in the public sphere. I don’t defend it. I reject it.

    It is being used by girls to gain acceptance.

    Tracy C Coyle: Good to hear from you!

    I lived for 30 years in San Francisco, so I am used to rainbow sexuality, so to speak. But I have been surprised at the uptick of young girls going trans.

    My impression is that men may get channeled to non-mainstream sexuality for whatever reasons but not by their conscious choice. But women, not so much.

    My sister settled with a lesbian partner decades ago and they are still together. She told me she could go either way and would rather be with a guy, but she had a run of abusive boyfriends and decided it wasn’t worth the risk. My point is she chose to be lesbian, while most of the gay guys I knew in San Francisco, it wasn’t a choice.

    So I’ve been curious about the number of female teens going trans. You say, acceptance. Interesting.

17. I’m bi but that is by choice. My partner (she passed 9 yrs ago) was born and died a lesbian. Sexual preference I think is innate – I also think that it applies to gender which is why the transsexual is so conflicted. But as to preference, I believe, because we are humans capable of being more than our biology, CAN be a choice.

    I believe that there are very few of us that ‘choose’. The uptick with girls is VERY disturbing and almost always occurs in the early years of puberty – but also at the same time social involvement begins to be very important. I think the two are being used as corollaries, erroneously. But that is my opinion at this point.

    Thanks for the comment back Huxley.

18. Coyle, At one time (pre-TS-fashionablity as 32 Gender Flavors) there may not have been a lot of choosing going on and it was confined to the extreme end of the sexuality scale that we now call “Born that way.” Today however the “born that way” chunklet is used by many who were *not* born that way as a way to get more attention or to simply get laid more. Nowdaze with fashionability and immunity to criticism, there is a large chunk more choosing by those that are not “born that way” at all since its much easier to just slide into it. Now it’s just another diaper slapped over a suppurating wound made by the high-velocity intellectual insanity of the age.

19. Stop the presses! Hold the injections!
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/books/article-8531529/So-gives-women-edge-X-factor.html

    Ah, science…which rushes in where angels fear to tread?

20. Tracy C Coyle: I’m still curious if you would amplify on “acceptance” as the motivation for current female teens going trans.

    Sounds right to me. It seems female teens are more concerned than male teens about social acceptance and more flexible when it comes to sexuality.

    I can’t think of any gay guy I’ve known who made a choice about that. It was a terrible secret shame they lived with until they came out, if they came out.

    But except for the hard butch types, the lesbians I’ve known were, if you knew the truth, bi and going whichever way worked best at the time. Not that I object.

    A big San Francisco lesbian activist I knew, with a GLAAD (Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) history going back decades to college, ended up settling down with a male college friend and having a kid with him.

21. Sexual preference I think is innate

    It isn’t.

22. Tracy C Coyle,

    God bless you and your message! Although it seems today the numbers are against you regarding getting your message out, your message is so much more likely to resonate with a young person struggling with this issue. Please do not give up writing and speaking about this. There are so many minor children being abused right now.

23. huxley,

    What I have learned from my social circle coincides with your opinion. Except, I would add, I’ve known two women who were sexually abused by a close family member when they were minors and live a lesbian lifestyle. Knowing what I know of them, I don’t think they would have made the choice if the abuse had not occurred.

    And I will add an additional category of males who seem to be hypersexual, “randy.” I know a few guys who would literally nail anything. I doubt species is even a criteria for them. One now lives in a monogamous relationship with a man (he found Jesus and gave up his wandering ways), the other with a woman (he put off marriage for a long time, but he reached a point in his career where a wife to bring to office parties helped him up the next rung of the corporate ladder). This could be bisexual, or pansexual, but, like I wrote, I don’t even think the object of their attention needed to be animate. It was more a pure, physical thing.

24. Barry Meislin,

    I can’t tell if you are being facetious*, or not, but I have long had a hunch we will learn this is true. The “y” chromosome looks a lot like a damaged, “x.” Obviously, even if that is how it evolved that doesn’t translate to “damaged” phenotypes, or traits. But all chromosome pairs are identical in structure in women, and all but the 23rd are identical in men. It seems like nature really likes symmetry in chromosomes and a lack of symmetry may not be ideal.

    *Facetious is the only English word that contains the vowels in alphabetical order; a-e-i-o-u. Facetiously even has “sometimes y” in the right place!

25. I’ve known two women who were sexually abused by a close family member when they were minors and live a lesbian lifestyle.

    Rufus T. Firefly: Likewise the lesbian activist I mentioned. She was quite bright and became an MD, but she was straight out of Polanski’s “Chinatown.” She was abused by her stepfather, who was really her father.

    And her father, since we’re discussing Ayn Rand in another topic, was a second-tier guy in Rand’s circle. Ayn Rand told my friend’s mother not to marry him.

    I’ve known more than a few lesbians who were incested and that seemed to have an impact on their lesbianism.

    Still the gay guys I’ve known were just gay. The bi guys I’ve known were mostly straight but could, in your terms, “nail anything.”

26. There was a kid I knew slightly in college…he was extremely high IQ and had gone directly from school to college at age 10. He was Catholic, and considered becoming a priest..but thought he’d better wait until he got a little older and see how interested he was in girls.

    Kid was indeed smart, smarter than those who choose to make such a life-altering decision as ‘gender change’ at such a young age. And their parents, of course.

27. “Sexual preference I think is innate – I also think that it applies to gender which is why the transsexual is so conflicted.”
    So, please explain to it to me. What’s a gender and how do you trans it? You seem to conflate gender and sex. Sex is based on chromosomes. What is the physical basis of gender? As far as I can tell gender is all in your head, I.E. imaginary.

28. Sex is genetic: male and female. Gender is “phonetic”: masculine and feminine, respectively, physical and mental (e.g. sexual orientation) sex-correlated attributes. Trans is an existing or progressive state of divergence from normal. So, trans/homo, trans/bi, trans/inter, trans/neo… the transgender spectrum.

29. correction: “phenotypic”

    If there were any justice in this country, this quackery would be outlawed and the people profiting from put in prison.

    Once you go Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic, politically congruent (“=”), you follow a progressive path.

30. What doesn’t harm women more? Last I checked everything does…

    the hormones they have taken are devastating and irreversible, especially for girls. Just as an example, teenaged girls who take male hormones experience a deepening of the voice that is ordinarily irreversible. To see these detransitioned girls and young women, speaking with male voices emanating from their female bodies, and to know that this effect is permanent, is a sorrowful experience .

    why is that especially harmful? boys require surgery among other things, which you can look up… seems to me that we just ignore any harm to boys or men… and ALWAYS claim anything is always more harmful to girls.

    LA county is being sued for giving the kids in their lock up estrogen.

31. Gerard, I agree – self identification has gone well beyond parody. The problem with self-identification under today’s rules is that there is no grounding in any form of reality that allows others to deal with people rationally.

    Huxley: People want to be accepted by their peers. As teenagehood approaches, that desire is amplified significantly and ‘trans acceptance’ became such a cause celeb that to come out as trans was to be granted almost instant acceptance. It was a way to short-circuit the ‘outcast’ potential that girls who didn’t fit ‘traditionally acceptable female presentation standards’ would have been sent into. It creates a new ‘in group’ that was ‘brave’. I am hoping it burns itself out but the damage done to those young women is going to be around for a long time.

    Art Deco: I have an innate preference, I simply choose to expand upon it. I think it is normal to have an innate preference, generally heterosexual.

32. Ray: I was born male, will die male (unless they figure a way to change chromosomes in an adult!).

    However, I present, and have for 30+ years as a woman. I am accepted in my social circles, in my community and in society at large as such. I have had relationships with both sexes. My sexual orientation is bisexual – either men or women.

    My outward secondary sexual characteristics conform, support and “validate” my presentation as a woman. Prior to transition, they conformed to a presentation as a man. So, I transitioned from one presentation to the other and the process included changing those secondary sexual characteristics. In addition to the physical, there were emotional and psychological changes that had to be learned and unlearned to support the transition.

    It is a process that takes years but it is done under the microscope of functioning day to day in society – there are few opportunities for mistakes, which are often emotionally, psychologically and too often physically damaging. It was when I transitioned, physically UNSAFE to be “caught” not passing. It is somewhat easier now – but no less dangerous emotionally and psychologically especially for younger people (under 30).

    I don’t disagree that trans is divergent. But for many/most transsexuals the goal is to fully move into the other and ‘conform’ with general society. We like to blend back into the woodwork.

33. Something that puzzles me: why are so many girls transitioning to maleness when the entire feminist culture for 50 years has been telling women that masculinity is toxic and men are unnecessary?

    Is this just a variation of the usual cognitive dissonance on the left, or is something else at work?

    Also: In addition to the rampant Marxist (no longer just left-liberal) doctrination in classrooms, the complicity of school administrations in this transitioning abuse, and also in facilitating abortions, without notifying the parents of either (but you can go to jail if you send your kids to school with ibuprofen in their backpacks), is one thing that tempers my enthusiasm for getting kids back into the school buildings in the fall.

34. Dumb gullible rich people’s problem’s. (Because people learned nothing from “As Nature Made Him” about the cult medical science abuse of the fate of David Reimer, as told by John Colapinto — and John Money, MD,
    the people who let him do it to him, despite the fact that his botched circumcision sex “change” failed.)

35. huxley (and others):
    I’ve known more than a few lesbians who were incested and that seemed to have an impact on their lesbianism.

    Still the gay guys I’ve known were just gay. The bi guys I’ve known were mostly straight but could, in your terms, “nail anything.”
    ———————————————–
    But the statistics show that gay men are 4-5 times more likely to have been molested or physically abused than the general population.

    This is deliberately blurred by the LGBT lobby – which presents this as “mentoring” and encourages lonely, attention-starved kids to think of it that way. Here in Israel a “counselor” at a “walk in center” was shot, and the LGBT lobby flogged it for years as evidence of “intolerance”… turns out it the shooter was the family member of a troubled teen who had “walked in” and been taken advantage of.

36. Art Deco: I have an innate preference,

    No, you don’t, sister. And we know from studies of identical twins you don’t

37. To feel alienated from a constricted social role can’t be that rare, or novel. To feel at some times and in some ways alienated from one’s own body is sad, but part of the human (mortal) condition. But to imagine that the problem will clear right up if you mutilate your body with surgery and hormones–that’s just lunacy.

38. Art Deco sez: “No, you don’t, sister. And we know from studies of identical twins you don’t.”
    There is genotype and there is phenotype, and the two are not congruent is what Art means, I believe. All the warm, fuzzy chatter about trans and bi posted here is the result of our social environment, i.e. phenotype, and the “environment” also includes psychological factors, adding up to various types of behavioral push and pull. So certainly some variance from heterosexuality results from making LGBTs acceptable and welcomed as “good”, despite the undesirable behavioral features (e.g., increased suicidal ideation and action) associated with their variant sexual conduct.
    One need only recall the rampant promiscuity, the anonymous sexual encounters, practiced by gays in the days before HIV reined them in.

    We have given license to libertinism.

39. I know a teen girl, knew her from preschool onward, who came out as trans as a high school freshman. She’d been an awkward and difficult child all her life. Her parents fully supported her new identity – I won’t go so far as to say it was a political bonanza for them, because I think they (especially dad) truly felt shocked and sad that, as mom told me, “the child we have isn’t the child we thought we had,” but certainly it fit well with their politics and they embraced it. They never disclosed to me whether they had undergone any sort of therapy or even soul-searching with their teen about this giant change.

    In short order, another three? or so girls from her class, in fact in her group of (I’m inferring, having known her for a decade at this point and knowing what kind of kids she graduated to, also awkward) friends in the very competitive school she attended also came out as trans. Last time I saw this family, the teen, now 16 or possibly 17, was receiving hormone therapy but was presenting as a kind of stereotypically butch girl or gay boy – hair shorter than most girls wear it now but longer than most straight boys in her area, clothes indeterminate, definitely not stereotypically feminine but also not as deliberately “uncaring” as straight boys – say, black skinny jeans, Doc Martins, a fashion t-shirt, wide and prominent belt, clunky jewelry. And I wondered whether the parents still believed they’d made the right decision in letting their 14yo dictate such a permanent and life-changing path. They said their kid was happier than at 14, but never seemed to consider that that might have happened anyway. Nor did they seem to consider the contagion issue. But certainly their kid was not trying to blend in with the pack of cis boys. It was my clear impression that the kid had found a niche, and neither sex nor gender had much of anything to do with it.

40. Artfl, I have two sons and defer to no one in my concern for the lack of concern for boys and men in American society today. But I think the focus here is on teen girls because the rapid-onset gender dysphoria thing affects them in such stunning numbers. Boys aren’t going trans this way.

    That said… the latter comment about the correlation of sexual abuse of boys by adult men with the boys’ growing up to be gay men – that’s pretty damn horrifying, but sadly believable. My husband’s uncle, who died several years back, always told my husband he could’ve gone either way, but was… how did he put it? “Educated”? by a gay man while in his teens.

41. Jamie:

    Agreed. The numbers for girls are way way high, and it’s been a sudden increase.

    What’s more, there are physical differences. When teenage boys are given female hormones, as long as they haven’t yet had what’s called “bottom”surgery, the effects are ordinarily quite reversible when they go off the hormones. For teenage girls, the voice effects are usually permanent, even if there’s been no “bottom” surgery. There’s more, too – involving what’s known as “top” surgery.

42. Rufus, fascinating!
    (Still, when it comes to word trivia, I’m generally abstemious….)

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