Still another example – as if any more were needed – of why we have police
Consider the alternative: vigilante “justice”.
Those who think otherwise are either fools or knaves or both – that is, stupid or evil or both.
At some point – perhaps after the police are gone or totally corrupt and corrupted – people may reflect back on how it used to be in the days when police were trained to avoid unnecessary killings, and when although such killings occurred they were exceedingly rare considering the number of times police encountered violent, resistant people.
Police work isn’t easy, and that’s the understatement of the year. Police will sometimes make errors. Some police will do even worse; they will be corrupt or racist or stupid or any number of other things. But considering how tough the job is, and how many police there are, that number is extremely small. Without them, we are back to a state of nature. And the nature is the state described by Hobbes, not Rousseau.
One of the best courses I ever took was one that made me read both Hobbes and Rousseau in tandem. I think it was in college. It might have been in high school.
Hobbes wrote in 1651:
…Hobbes postulates what life would be like without government, a condition which he calls the state of nature. In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This, Hobbes argues, would lead to a “war of all against all” (bellum omnium contra omnes). The description contains what has been called one of the best-known passages in English philosophy, which describes the natural state humankind would be in, were it not for political community:
“In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”
In such a state, people fear death and lack both the things necessary to commodious living, and the hope of being able to obtain them. So, in order to avoid it, people accede to a social contract and establish a civil society.
The social contract has been broken, or at least is in the process of being broken. For a long time we have stood on the shoulders of giants, the great thinkers of Western Civilization. But now apparently we are tired and seem intent on jumping off.
Hmm, it seems to me the contract has been broken in the blue zones only. The contract still stands where I live. Voting has unintended consequences. The blue zones are getting what they voted for, they need to deal with it and stop preening when they are not whining.
Too early to know what really happened here. Were these a couple of kids looking for trouble and to mix it up with Antifa? We don’t know. Were they really armed and firing? We don’t know. Did a couple of teen sightseers try to crash the party and die as a result? We don’t know. A couple of teen drug dealers refusing to be stopped as they accessed their market … or supply? I don’t know. Take a guess.
I doubt it was Anfifa killing Antifa, in other words, a rat fight. But if it was, even given the ages, I don’t care.
But sometimes the Revolution does come for its allies.
This is just too, too funny. Conservatives have long accused well-heeled leftist activists of hiding out in gated communities. Ha.
Here’s what happens when the Woke wake up to meet their children storming the gates.
https://apnews.com/def4fbb664edeac24746cc7af0c5c555
You would think that if they were really, really committed, they would climb up on that altar of retributive woke justice, and present themselves as a burnt offering.
Maybe they will get that chance yet. LOL
By the way, what happened to CHAZ?
I liked the ring of that, and all that that implied: namely, that they had gone full and unapologetically alien.
Now, given where the Autonomous Zone is, and who surrounds it, I did not really expect that those progressives on the outside, would not – when push came to shove or the chickens came home to roost – happily crawl on hands and knees over broken glass in their haste to frantically “succor” the succorless, or whatever the f^ck they are. Of course they would, and do, and will.
It’s just too bad that there is always some anxious do-gooder ruining what could be very informative experiments by placing his finger on the scale; because, well, “We just can’t let them reap what they have sown!”
Nahh. We can. Let them burn Donald. Let them burn.
One of the best courses I ever took was one that made me read both Hobbes and Rousseau in tandem. I think it was in college. It might have been in high school.
neo: Wow! If you ever remember I’d be curious to know. Sounds like a real hot tuna course.
I rather doubt you could find such today outside Hillsdale or St. John’s.
By the way, what happened to CHAZ?
DNW: It’s now CHOP, “Capitol Hill Organized Protest.” I guess because “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” laid themselves open to outright rebellion/secession blowback.
You want to get Daddy’s attention without losing your trust check.
Why yeah, I mean fierce autonomousness … ness .. or autonomousity or whatever, is all fine and good … Hear us Roar!
But no reasonable radical would take it to the extreme of not running to the Daddy, or the population, we are trying to kill, for his or their support, when, well, you know, a little too much autonomy gets going.
CHAZ/CHOP
16 yr old black killed and 14 yr old black wounded in the CHAZ/CHOP in an incident with the CHAZ/CHOP security on Sunday. Gunshots on both sides(?) but not excessive force by CHAZ/CHOP security, funny that. Seattle police are investigating but it appears that someone in CHAZ/CHOP messed with the scene. Seattle’s mayor, a real Durkin, is negotiating with the CHAZ/CHOPians; asking to have part of the city back.
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/06/29/another-shooting-in-the-chop-one-dead-14-year-old-critically-injured-the-backstory-is-wild/
Aunty Fay and Blatant Lying Marxists blocked I-5 through Seattle twice over the weekend so the WA State Patrol closed down the interstate temporarily. Didn’t hear about any arrests. Another great idea from King Jay. See the link about this national problem on the highways/interstates.
https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-america-afghanistan-growing-danger-truckers-americas-roads/
Neo:
One of the best courses I ever took was one that made me read both Hobbes and Rousseau in tandem. I think it was in college. It might have been in high school.
I KNOW that my introduction to Hobbes and Rousseau came in high school, in my 9th grade Introduction to Politics class. I took no Poly Sci classes in college. I still remember “Brutal, nasty, and short.” After my proof-filled New Math courses, my favorite class in high school was that Politics class. The class was a lot of work for 9th grade, but well worth it. (The math classes came much more easily for me.)
From reading a Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch, I concluded that Communism was evil. (Knowing some Iron Curtain refugees and their children in my hometown, was also a factor.) A term paper on Soviet agriculture led me to the conclusion that Communism as an economic system was also incompetent. Though a Communist government may acquire immense power, it couldn’t feed its people. Just like agriculture in Mao’s China, Castro’s Cuba, Allende’s Chile, and Chavista Venezuela.
As a result, when in college I heard a SDS honcho(a) gush that the works of Lenin the Good and the Great should be a required part of the college curriculum- a veritable 20th Century Plato- I wrote SDS off. She later became a tax-and-spend Democrat state legislator.
Regarding vigilantes, a not uncommon remark from right-wing blog-commenters is that police are not there so much for protecting the people from criminals, but more for protecting criminals from the wrath of the people.
Both Pol Pot and Maximilien Robespierre were of course ardent believers in the ideas espoused by Rousseau.
Hobbes serves as a useful corrective. So does the Marquis de Sade.
And yet another example.
“police are not there so much for protecting the people from criminals, but more for protecting criminals from the wrath of the people.”
https://www.redstate.com/jeffc/2020/06/29/progressives-dox-and-target-the-business-of-the-st-louis-gun-toting-couple-who-confronted-protesters/
They are ‘personal injury lawyers’. A group which supports the democrat party close to 100%.
And now the ‘revolution’ has come for them.
Karma sure is a bit…..
I grew up in Albuquerque, NM and in the 1950s the police went on strike. The Mayor went on TV and told everybody to buy a gun and if anybody tries to break into their house just shoot them. You couldn’t do that today.
For a good example of Hobbes read about the tribes of North America at first contact. They were Stone Age people who were a very violent and bloody bunch that were constantly at war with each other. The modern day tribes of New Guinea are pretty much the same today. Rousseau was an idiot who wrote about an imaginary world.
They are ‘personal injury lawyers’. A group which supports the democrat party close to 100%.
From the looks of that mansion interior, pretty successful ones.
I couldn’t find it again, but I saw a news article about a BLM protest group that requested police protection for their protest demanding that the police be defunded.
If that isn’t enough cognitive dissonance to make your head explode then there is no hope for you.
Roy, I saw that headline yesterday. Amazing.
I just briefly read up on Russeau. I had never been exposed to him before.
I can see in his premises the roots of the zero-sum mentality and Marxism.
Perhaps the world deserves to burn when its iconic heroes/saints have become men high on meth or alcohol with extensive criminal records. Certainly they didn’t deserve to die because of hat they did but if they represent the left’s best, well the, by all means , burn it down forever.
Given a time machine and a Strangle One Historical Figure In Their Crib FREE! card, I’m skipping Hitler and Stalin and going for Rousseau.
So very many bad ideas came out of his work, I figure if he could be erased then a whole lot of terrible historical events might be prevented.
Hobbes argues, would lead to a “war of all against all” (bellum omnium contra omnes). The description contains what has been called one of the best-known passages in English philosophy, which describes the natural state humankind would be in, were it not for political community
The state that man came out of and from…
The state that the leftist idjits believe would make them stationed unlike now
For a long time we have stood on the shoulders of giants, the great thinkers of Western Civilization.
The women’s movement erased them…
and replaced the education with other things
first for they were men
second for they were pale
what other reasons does one need?
Bryan, 20 years ago I read the book “The Meme Machine” by Susan Blackmore. Ever since I am fascinated how ideas resonate with people and spread like viruses. Thankfully I am not susceptible to dark memes like Marxism but a lot of people are apparently.
The economist, Hernando DeSoto, (In his book, the “Mystery of Capital.”) has pointed out that absent the protection of private property by courts, there can be no flourishing of enterprise. It is the fundamental bedrock of our system. Without that protection, and as pointed out by Hobbes, owning anything of value becomes an uncertain proposition because someone stronger or more stealthy can steal your property at a time of their choosing.
In the case of CHOP, a group of vandals has stolen the use of property owned by others. The real owners are subjected to demands for “contributions,” violent chaos, trash/refuse, noise pollution, crimes of many sorts, and a loss of use of their properties. Our system of governance was designed to protect property owners from this sort of criminal trespass/illegal squatting on their properties. In fact, such protection is one of the first and highest callings of our governments at all levels. Yet, the Democrat mayor and governor refuse to do their sworn duty.
To devalue private property in this manner is typical of Marxist philosophy. And of course, we know that BLM and ANTIFA are Marxist organizations. It is now clear that what is happening isn’t about black lives. If it was, there would be outrage and anger about killings of blacks by other blacks in such large numbers. Three killed in CHOP so far. Hardly anyone knows their names. No outrage about those black lives lost. The idea that there is a vendetta against black men by the police is a Trojan Horse. It is cover for eliminating the bedrock of our system – protection of private property by courts of law and the power of the government. By doing nothing, Mayor Durkan and Governor Inslee are signaling their approval of Marxist methods of destroying private property. This has become so blatant that I see no way that anyone can deny that this is an overt attempt to destroy our system.
Trump isn’t going to save people, he is not the Messiah.
People are going to have to work and save themselves.
ymarsakar:
I’ve never seen anyone here give any indication that they think that Trump is anything like a messiah, or that he will save them. I have seen that sort of attitude on occasion on other blogs, but not here. Nor has anyone said a thing of that sort in this thread.
Who confused President Trump with the Messiah? Or would that more nonsense from the man who finally found his p?
“But now apparently we are tired and seem intent on jumping off.”
In one of Heinlein’s SF stories, the Martians are inheritors of an ancient civilization…but now they just sit around, never doing much.
The (earth person) protagonist asks a Martian why this is, and get this answer:
“My fathers have labored, and I am weary.”
Maybe there’s something to that.
I give Kafka the last, inevitable word:
The Messiah will come only when he is no longer necessary…
–Franz Kafka
Tucker Carlson zeroes in on why Antifa Inc. is zeroing in on the police to defund & destroy: it’s the last authoritative institution in America not yet under their control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7aQ02YX7qo&feature=youtu.be
Tucker: Black Lives Matter is now a political party •Jun 8, 2020
(using the cumbersome auto-transcript, but enough to give the gist; time-stamps removed, their caps, lightly edited)
Well, yes, it is a power grab, certainly.
More specifically, it is an attempt to finally force Trump out of office.
To finally finish the Democrats’ war against Trump and his administration.
To finally finish the coup against Trump that ran aground when the Russia hoax couldn’t live up to its intended result (though it certainly did plant, with the able assistance of the MSCM, the requisite vicious dragon’s teeth amongst the public).
To finally finish the failed effort to drive him out of office after several blatantly specious if vituperative and vociferous impeachment attempts.
To finally finish off the job Obama began in 2016 (vis a vis Trump, but way before 2016, vis a vis the country, which according to Obama was to be fundamentally transformed, and was certainly on that path, except for Trump’s “disruptive” appearance on the scene).
And so the current collusion between Democratic politicians in the House and Senate, in the governorships and municipalities—and needless to say, in the media—to encourage mayhem, to wreak destruction, to promote discord, to sow division, to hold the country hostage to its ends-justify-the-means policy of violence and subversion, has reached its peak.
And they will continue to encourage this policy of destruction and violence so as to show—to prove—their Truth: that Trump, “Mr. MAGA” himself, cannot protect the country, can neither defend the country nor its institutions nor its citizens; is totally helpless against those who wish him gone and seek “to disappear” him.
(And if the country has to be rent asunder to “prove” this inalienable Truth, then so be it.)
And should Trump attempt to defend against the onslaught, then he will be excoriated as a tyrant, a fascist, trying to prevent violently, to eradicate(!) lawful public “protest”—trying to wipe out an American right, a HUMAN right. Trying to trample the US Constitution by calling up the military against “his own people”.
Yes, like the fascist they’ve already determined he is, which they’ve been repeating since Day 1 “ad infinitum”, “ad nauseum”.
And so they believe they have him in their elegant trap (almost as exquisite as Obama-gate but not quite as “transparent”).
They have him in their vise. He cannot escape. This time he will not be able to extricate himself from their “patriotic” clutches.
He can watch helplessly as America burns. Or he can try defend the country, to end the destruction, in which case he will no doubt be subjected to another impeachment circus by those who insist on showing us just why they must be trusted with power.
Since for the Democratic Party and its MSCM comrades in destruction—destruction of truth, destruction of individuals, destruction of the country—this entire devilishly wrought policy is, they are firmly convinced, formidably successful politics, awesome in its conception, pitch perfect in its implementation, so drunk are they on their own virtue, so inebriated are they with their sense of values, so enamored are they of their perversity, so deluded are they regarding the rightness of their mission and the utter necessity of their success.
AesopFan:
I completely agree that the leftists want to replace the police with their own police. Just as they are replacing DAs with their own DAs who will only prosecute the right.
However, some of the more extreme actual anarchists who are doing some of the rioting really do want the police gone.