↓
 
Home » If the blue states won’t do it…

If the blue states won’t do it…

The New Neo Posted on by

…maybe the feds will:

For a while it seemed that Trump was going to send troops to places such as Seattle. He certainly has stated that he has the right to do it. But he’s desisted. Apparently, at least for now, he’s decided to give them enough rope, while sending other “troops” – legal ones – after some of the worst offenders. The optics just aren’t the same for the left, who must be disappointed at the failure so far to generate another Kent State.

Comments

If the blue states won’t do it… — 26 Comments

  1. It’s amazing to me so few have figured out Trump’s pattern, even as he speaks of it openly. This is the man who wrote, “The Art of the Deal.”

    Almost every public statement by Trump is part of a negotiation. His initial statements on a subject are always extreme. You never begin a negotiation stating the point you hope to eventually reach. You start wide of that point. The middle ground is defined from that initial point.

    Along with the above tactic, Trump uses verbal sleight of hand. Just as a magician distracts your eye so you don’t see he’s palming the coin, Trump makes an outrageous statement to distract the media when he wants to buy time to do something else; like arrest a bunch of terrorists.

    And the MSM walk into the Trump buzzsaw every, single, time.

  2. Restraint is not a quality most people associate with President Bull-in-a-China-Shop, but time and again I’ve noticed that, when it counts, Trump doesn’t shoot from the hip as one might assume from his tweets.

  3. Restraint is probably wise in this situation. I am sure that he will rightfully pillory the craven Mayors and Governors; and hopefully that will further his political fortunes.

    I just wish that he would not huff and puff about things he doesn’t intend to actually do.
    Maybe I am just not sophisticated enough to understand the strategy. I hope that is true; but, I sense that people who wish him well are growing tired of it.

  4. Another point about having the Feds on your case, instead of one of the states, is that the Feds are much less likely to hand out suspended sentences or probation with minimal or no jail time. If you have a Federal sentence, you are looking at time behind bars. Which also suggests to me that when some of the Antifa people are looking at extended jail time, they will point fingers at as many of their cohort as they can in an attempt to reduce their sentences.

    Roll ’em up, roll ’em up!

  5. Someone on another blog, or in another article, mentioned that the federal government has a lot of tools that could be used, instead of the military. Federal agencies with a lot of resources, think of I.C.E, A.T.F., F.B.I, etc could be used to infiltrate and isolate leaders, like the self proclaimed warlord of CHAZ. Cut the head off, the body dies. Anarchists still seem to like leaders, even if they don’t think they are followers.

  7. I will say again, Trump was not my guy. I voted for him because I was absolutely not voting for Clinton. But I have been pleasantly surprised (not to say shocked) at how much of the conservative agenda on which he ran he has actually followed through on, or at least tried to. And this year, given the alternative, I am a crawl-over-broken-glass Trump voter.

    But having Trump as president and wanting him to be reelected is like climbing into the Apollo 7 capsule. Probably everything will be all right… but you can never quite forget that the last people to take that elevator died on the launch pad. The thing you are there to do is also in a sense your enemy, or at any rate your nemesis. If it decides to act against you, you’re done, and there’s literally nothing more you can do to control that exigency.

  8. Trump is not doing what you think he’s doing by threatening action. For him to act, Seattle has to get so bad that the police can’t handle the situation and the mayor asks the governor to send in the National Guard. If the situation overwhelms the National Guard, then Trump can send in troops at the request of the governor. Those two would be more likely to convert to fundamentalist Christianity and vote Republican than involve Trump. This means the situation in Seattle will continue to fester. The longer things fester the easier it is to make the case that Democrats are incompetent and captives of their far left interest groups, and makes them incapable of decent government. All of this is good for Trump as a powerful campaign message.

  9. Paul in Boston
    Couple or articles I’ve seen say Trump is waving the Regulars around like a magic wand, or at least talking about them. “Military” for most people means the Regulars, active duty folks. Or the Guard. Those show up under different statutory circumstances, and there’s the federalized Guard acting under POTUS instead of the governor.
    Meantime, while the leftists are going nuts about dictator, Trump is using civilian agencies’ tactical guys. I heard even the Railroad Pension Board has a bunch of cowboys assigned. He can do this on his own when terrorists–see Antifa being designated a terrorist group–are doing bad stuff to citizens.
    And maybe what we’ve heard from old generals and SecDef Esper is more smoke screen.
    So while Chaz and other locations are looking for paratroopers with bayonets, the feds of the FBI, HHS, Marshalls are taking care of business I hope.

  10. Paul in Boston. Exactly. Plus,Trump made the Federal city of DC a case example of his welcoming of rioters. Quite necessary.

  11. The feds did arrest a Tacoma woman for burning six cars in downtown Seattle so there’s that. At least she left here and did her damage in Seattle.

  12. Ace of Spades posts a Hodge Twins duo of videos beginning with BLM means “Left Lies Matter.” Funny yet sad.

    His chaser, however, is what I wants to add her for attention, video of an alleged Federal officers’ grab and snatch of possible Antifa. It’s less than a minute long and does appear to be what it is said to be.
    http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=387721

    Further down in comments, “Tom” says “The FBI was all over Greenwich Village on Sunday. I happening to be passing when they were interviewing my doorman as a witness to the Antifa assault that got the doorman across the street all those stitches in his head. (He refused to let them on the roof to rain bricks down on the cops.). No idea if arrests have been made, but I can verify that they are giving it some attention.”

    Questions tend to ask why this story of Federal arrests and prosecution like this gains no reportage? Answers tend to run toward Trump misdirecting. Some wonder does it matter? Advancing longer-term investigatory goals is what really matters.

    So, something submitted for your approval.

  13. The left is still blinded to the core by the certainty of its absolute rightness. Stay locked down figuring that is bad for the economy and therefore Trump. Go easy on the civil unrest because that shows how the Tyrant Trump has lost control. They still haven’t learned that he is not as thick as three planks like those deplorables in Youngstown. He is pretty unpredictable, but I think it is a good tactic to let them stew in the spectacular consequences of their own actions while the DOJ unspectacularly picks off the worst of the offenders. Pretty similar to the tactics being employed by Barr and Durham toward the Obamagate bureaucrats.

  14. T.R.: “Speak softly and carry a big stick”

    DJT: “Tweet loudly and carry a laser pointer”

    Trump’s strategy is to say something outrageous that baits his opponents into doing exactly what he wants them to do, whether that’s take responsibility for something they should be doing anyway, or saw off the limb they’re sitting on for the amusement and edification of the public.

    And his opponents fall for it Every. Single. Time.

  15. “…who must be disappointed at the failure so far to generate another Kent State.”

    The problem is that the next time we have a Kent State, there could be a LOT of people on the side of the shooters. I don’t think we are there yet but that’s pretty clearly the direction we’re heading.

    You don’t have to go back that far in U.S. history to find a time when playing the victim as a means to acquire political power was not just foolish but an alien way of thinking.

    Mike

  16. It’s quite unlikely that there will be a “Kent State” (4 dead in O-HI-O, great Neil Young line). The cops might shoot some dangerous criminal looter/ shooters, but most likely with body cameras on and sufficient justification.

    And a lot less likely to shoot to kill. How many have been killed by riot police in the last 20 years? Really, I don’t know, nor do I care enough to investigate further than one google search that shows lots of results of lists of all killed by all police. I’m kind of glad that data is coming out.

    We could use a real discussion on police brutality, defund the police, and crimes & criminals & punishment & law enforcement, and criminal brutality.

    I’m still wondering when riot police will be using paintguns to help them identify those they shoot, as the front ranks of agitator protesters so often start violent things & then run away, blending in with the crowd.

    More drones with cameras and ability to track & follow the worst folk would also be good. Yes, unfortunately getting closer to a surveillance state.

    It’s great America allows peaceful protests. There are people who start violence, who are guilty, who should be punished because of their crimes.

    Now I’m fantasizing about all the businesses that have been burnt or destroyed, and the DOJ helping them sue Twitter & Facebook for allowing the violent folk to organize and coordinate. With huge judgments against them that cause them to go bankrupt — and those businesses becoming the new owners of re-organized Twitter to allow all speech from all folk. Making it easier to stop hearing speech you don’t like, but not to silence others. (Maybe after 2020?)

  17. timcast just went over the LIFE sentences facing the three people with molotov cocktails and what really got me was how he wanted to be gentle on them for crying and what he thinks is realizing what they did… NO WAY!

    here is what i wrote, that it will not be in vain

    Good work, but i think you miss how law works. Your not putting things in proper perspective, and i hope this works.

    The WORST sentences in law have to do with how people THINK when they are committing the crime from start to finish and their awareness of the potential outcomes of their actions.

    Cause a death because your acting like an idiot, you get a much more lenient sentence. Cause a death because you premeditated the crime, you are a totally different kind of person

    let me put this in perspective: These people premeditated manufactured fuel based hand grenades with lots of time to change their mind, and the known intent of murdering someone with extreme malice…

    think on this a second… FUEL BASED HAND GRENADES, and you think this is about THEM? NO! This is, as with other crimes with long sentences, about making a statement that taking time to premeditate the act of murder will not be tolerated.

    They could have said this was nuts as they thought about doing it. They could have said this was nuts and stopped as they went to buy the gas, collect the bottles, fill the bottles, find rags to tear up to cork the bottles, transport the bottles, find a means of lighting the bottles, choosing a target, and throwing the fuel based hand grenades!!!

    we have put people in jail for life for having a gun, turning away, walking away, changing their minds after two steps, coming back and killing..

    think of that whole process of how to concieve of manufacturing, manufacturing, transporting, engaging, and targeting another human being with the idea you were going to set them on fire and let them burn to death slowly… cause burning to death is not a fast death… and if they survive, they will suffer decades of pain, operations, and suffering (not limited to themselves but to their families too), and may even become shunted for being too ugly for others to face!

    and you think psychopaths crying for being locked up and not able to harm others is a reason to lighten their sentence?

  18. As I recall, Kent State was the high water mark of campus protests. Sure, there was much indignation and sure, the protests did not end on the spot, but the protests began tapering off:
    ______________________________________________

    Indeed, the Kent State shooting remains symbolic of the division in public opinion about war in general, and the Vietnam War specifically. Many believe it permanently changed the protest movement across the American political spectrum, fostering a sense of disillusionment regarding what, exactly, these demonstrations accomplish—as well as fears over the potential for confrontation between protesters and law enforcement.

    https://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/kent-state-shooting
    ______________________________________________

    I don’t consider history.com the last word on anything, but I’m not alone in my opinion.

    I was around then and in college. My impression was that students had become weary, if not a little frightened, of protests and there was so much other interesting, exciting stuff going on with music, drugs, communes and spirituality that it was easy and counter-culturally acceptable to head in those directions.

  19. one other note..
    the way the news is reporting can be put in clearer perspective

    in a guardian article they literally said that the protests with molotov cocktails was a peaceful one… in one breath..

    IF this were true:
    Then the Vietnam war was a peaceful camping trip, except for the few who used their rifles…

    [most at the war supported combat, and in combat there are long periods of no fighting and sitting on edge… So to take a page out of how these riots are being reported, the above is how you could describe the Vietnam war!!!!!]

  20. huxley on June 14, 2020 at 11:29 am said: As I recall, Kent State was the high water mark of campus protests.

    except that now we know the name of the person who shot off a gun to start it since we have analysable audio recordings

    Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings
    https://www.cleveland.com/science/2010/10/analysis_of_kent_state_audio_t.html

    KENT, Ohio — A noisy, violent altercation and four pistol shots took place about 70 seconds before Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on antiwar protesters at Kent State University , according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audiotape of the event.

    The discovery adds new perspective to — and raises new questions about — one of the signature events of the 20th century, after four decades of spirited discussion and research.

    “They got somebody,” an observer says. “Kill him!” at least two male voices repeatedly shout, followed by sounds of a struggle and a female voice yelling, “Whack that [expletive]!” or “Hit that [expletive]!” Four distinct shots matching the acoustic signature of a .38-caliber revolver then ring out, according to a review by New Jersey forensic audio expert Stuart Allen.

    Earlier this year, Allen and colleague Tom Owen examined the recording at The Plain Dealer’s request and determined that Guardsmen were given an order to prepare to fire moments before they unleashed a 13-second fusillade of rifle shots at a May 4, 1970 demonstration that killed four students and wounded nine others. What compelled the Guard to shoot is the central mystery of the iconic event, which galvanized sentiment against the Vietnam War.

    Commotion that ‘didn’t sound right’ led to re-examination of Kent State tape
    https://www.cleveland.com/science/2010/10/commotion_that_didnt_sound_rig.html

    The audiotape that forensic audio expert Stuart Allen analyzed was made by Terry Strubbe, a Kent State student who put a reel-to-reel tape recorder in his dorm window on May 4, 1970 to capture the sounds of the antiwar protest unfolding below.

    Strubbe has kept the original in a bank vault. Allen, president and chief engineer of the Legal Services Group in Plainfield, N.J., worked with a copy obtained from Yale University’s Kent State archives, where materials used in various investigations of the shootings are kept.

    While examining the tape with his colleague Tom Owen for The Plain Dealer this spring to determine if a command for the Ohio National Guard to fire was audible, Allen said he heard a commotion that “didn’t sound right” in a segment before the Guard gunfire.

    When he re-analyzed and enhanced the section later, he picked up details of the yelling and what sounded like gunfire. He compared the acoustic signatures to his library of weapon sounds to determine that it was a .38-caliber revolver. He ruled out the possibility that the sounds were tear gas canisters being fired, by comparing them to earlier tape segments where the canisters are audible.

    “It’s a crack, indicative of a higher velocity,” said Allen, who has decades of experience in government and law enforcement cases involving recorded evidence. He is confident “to a strong scientific certainty” about the altercation sounds and the pistol fire.

    He said he can’t determine whether there is any connection between the incident and the volley of Guard rifle fire that follows approximately 70 seconds later.

    Allen will describe his findings Saturday as part of a live, weekendlong webcast “Kent State Truth Tribunal” organized by filmmaker Michael Moore and Laurel Krause, the sister of Kent State shooting victim Allison Krause.

    and lastly

    Further analysis of the audiotape revealed that what sounded like four pistol shots and a confrontation occurred approximately 70 seconds before the National Guard opened fire. According to The Plain Dealer, this new analysis raised questions about the role of Terry Norman, a Kent State student who was an FBI informant and known to be carrying a pistol during the disturbance. Alan Canfora said it was premature to reach any conclusions

    Norman worked with the FBI at the height of its COINTELPRO (COunter INTELligence PROgram) activities. In the words of director J. Edgar Hoover, its purpose was to “expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit or otherwise neutralize” anti-war organizations as well as individual demonstrators with no group affiliation. Students Allison Krause and Jeffrey Miller, two of the Kent State shooting victims, fit this profile;

    Norman was the only person on campus other than a Guardsman who admitted to having a firearm at the scene;

    The Guard contended that a single shot of unknown origin preceded the 13-second volley of gunfire; and

    There had been a previous and never-fully-explained incident on Blanket Hill in which Norman drew his gun and pointed it at students who had attacked him. Norman had scuffled with some fellow students and reportedly drawn his gun before being chased by several men to the campus police and National Guard. One of his pursuers, graduate student Harold Reid, yelled, “Stop that man! He has a gun!”

    The FBI squelched speculation regarding Norman’s involvement by announcing that his gun had never been fired. However, the issue of his role on May 4 was revived three years later. Peter Davies, the author of the book The Truth About Kent State, and William A. Gordon, a journalist for the college’s student newspaper and the future author of Four Dead in Ohio, reported that there were three additional witnesses who said they had heard either Norman admit “I had to shoot” or a Kent State police detective exclaim, “My God, he fires his gun four times. What the hell do we do now?”

  21. The beauty of time….

    As i pointed out before, to go in and break up the zones is a mistake
    As long as they are not fully formed, it is easy to make claims as to “what they could have been” or “how it would have been” and no one can argue in a way that would reach people.

    but here is our example, by leaving the zones mostly alone… the people in the zones are now giving reports to the news that they have no rights there, there are borders and fencing, there is inequality in terms of gardening and food.

    there is something that is here that is in front of everyone but its not clear
    i hope in a short few paragraphs to make it clear

    in our society, we are free… we can riot at any time… there is no cap on our behaviors that prevent action, there is only a response to actions taken
    we generally live by the social contract that under our freedom, we will not act that way, we will not make fuel based hand grenades and throw them around
    but we ARE free to do that, and then have a response

    in the zones and the kinds of states that these kids are desiring, you have the opposite… there IS a cap on behavior that is backed by a gun. there IS a cap on what you can buy, how much, what it can be used for, who you can meet and so on. while it may be looser than it was before, the power and the cap actually exists. the state attempts to prevent things like riots by having lots of caps on behavior and cameras and other things that mostly induce fear as a way to stop action

    the problem with the young is that when nothing is happening, they both LOOK the same… they both look peaceful… the protestors in the zone appear to be peaceful, but they are peaceful because the warlord leader will beat them up, and hurt them… they are not voluntarily peaceful… they lost their rights.

    the people outside the zone, are peaceful as they want to be. they can do what they want, even make things that any regime would find dangerous. they can wander around with guns… they are free up to the point they take an action that is prohibited, and suffer consequences… there is no warlord, police, or black clad somethings that will beat them up for a MAYBE..

    let me point out that some worry that there would be violence with guns if the police went in. no. that will not happen. the police will not just go in like a mob. they will issue statements and they will give warnings, they may even drop flyers from a drone or plane into the zone to inform the people.

    “anyone holding a firearm, who lifts it towards a police officer or official will be considered a combatant and will be shot by police/nat guard snipers”

    you can hold your firearm, you wont be allowed to lift it to fire upon the police
    it will be that easy… they will probably even give them time to leave unmolested as they will be innocent.

    these zones do not need to be broken up.. they need to be left to fester, to let those who create them learn what the difference is… to figure out and then go home and open their mouths to others… i was there man, there was no freedom… but i was free to leave and come here and not go to jail because i was there… that will do more to prevent the future than any kind of show of superior force would. then after that, to hold the leaders and organizers financially responsible to reparations for the damage… all quite easy and regular to do in our system already.

    there is no reason to go in with force… none..
    the zones are not sustainable… using force to prevent a creation of one and destruction of more property, that can be justified given the force is usually just chasing people away and removing the things used to create the blockades

    but if one is created and exists… let it stand as an example
    let it be the living testimony of what the side that is doing this will do when in power
    let it die because the people inside want freedom, and inside there isnt any

  22. I am gong to post this on several threads here. I apologize in advance, and I hope this does not upset our gracious, vivacious and perspicacious hostess, Neo. I’m posting it on multiple threads in hopes it gets seen by many, but if you want to comment on the topic, please do so on the “Musical Interlude” post, so we can keep our thoughts in one place.

    Yesterday (two days ago?) in one of the threads about our current political situation one of you (MBunge?) made a statement that cutting off funding to companies working to eliminate our rights is critical to fighting this scourge. I wholeheartedly agree, and there was some continued discussion in the comments on how to coordinate the effort.

    Since it’s such an obvious and good idea (no offense to MBunge{?}, but I’ve had the thought myself, many times, as I’m certain we all have), I was fairly certain several organizations must already be doing this on the web. With a bit of research today I found this site, https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=C2200

    This seems to be a very good start. The link goes to their page on Cable & Satellite TV Production, but you’ll notice the search boxes in the right margin. Choose a drop down there and hit the magnifying glass and research any industry you prefer.

    Does anyone know anything about this organization, and whether they are fair? Their mission statement on their “About” page sounds good, and the data I looked at seems to be in-line with what I’ve seen in other publications. If this is a reliable resource, let’s spread the word and start taking action.

    Mares eat oats,
    And does eat oats,
    And little lambs eat ivy.
    A kid’ll eat ivy too,
    Wouldn’t you?

  23. Rufus T. Firefly on June 13, 2020 at 6:57 pm : I agree. As Dan Bongino recently said, the Left and even some under him look at Trump as T-Rex in a china shop. He puts out an extreme view point such as sending in the troops and the Left goes nuts and as usual writes that he intend to do worse than he said. He then says nothing about what he threatened and the Left goes even nuttier not knowing his plans. Then he sees what is happening and quietly does something different but accomplishes as much and better than using troops and creating a blood bath.. The Left sees what he is doing and exaggerates about that. In time the fake news is exposed and we deplorables cheer.
    He was going to send in the troops, 10,000 of them per the media, to DC supposedly after threatening to use troops. Instead the DOJ rounded up all the agencies special ops types and used them.
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-and-barr-fooled-them-all_3386565.html?fbclid=IwAR3nvePny3JffJgoNRWi-IH2sDaq0C1_dQ3zZkSr0HQrOtOmeW-cGbmsTlw

  24. Sadly, it wont work…
    way too many years that the group that drives all of this is normalized to the point you cant even question it, them, or any ideas they have, no matter how wacky..
    the fight was lost long ago once that was let go too far…
    and nothing can be done against it, unless you really go against it

  25. Artfldgr- I appreciated your commentary in this post; many things to ponder.

    “nothing can be done against it, unless you really go against it” – Artfldgr

    That is usually the case when conflicts become existential (that is, you must go one way or the other in order to continue existing). That is the crisis point that the Left is trying to accelerate toward (“silence is violence”), but I’m not convinced yet that the outcome will be what they want.

    Any contention is welcome to the Forces of Evil (TM); cf. “The Screwtape Letters.”
    A leftist victory would be preferred by the Unmakers, but a corruption of the right to defeat the left is acceptable.

    A conversion of both factions to actual peace and justice would be the best outcome for all of us, but it’s unlikely. Red-pilling more people, especially black skeptics, is still possible, as we are seeing in some of the eSamizdat circulating on the conservative web.

  26. AesopFan, the people on both sides will not say screw it to the largest front that foments this and invents new existentialist ideas… from their own point, to lgbt, to unpacking the knapsack, to turning kids into people who have no purpose other than make change in the world…

    the outcome will not be what anyone wants… even those fomenting it

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

↑