Why hoard toilet paper?
Hey, why not?
It lasts, if not forever, a long long time.
It’s pretty cheap – for now.
Doesn’t need refrigeration.
Never goes out of style.
One size fits all.
And no, people don’t think it protects them against disease – except in the sense that if they need to shelter in place for a long time, they might need quite a bit of tp and be unable or unwilling to go to the store to get it.
What’s more, the run on toilet paper (is that a pun?) increases the anxiety, and therefore there’s an increasing spiral of toilet paper buying due to the shortages.
Just more of the herd mentality/mass hysteria. I bet one person started filling their shopping cart with loads of TP, others saw it and then began to do the same. Like a contagious virus it spread 🙂 Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Luckily we are not do for a shortage of toilet paper even if things get really bad.
Went to Safeway this morning the entire toilet paper section was empty and paper towels were low. 24 packs of water all gone a few individual bottles but not many. Dry goods and canned goods sections were depleted but not totally empty. Produce section looked totally unaffected.
Kroger now limiting some purchases to combat hoarders.
This all better be worth it because they are scaring people big time and risking societal chaos.
50 deaths.
Instapundit recently noted that Mayor Bill informed us that the current Coronavirus crisis shows us we should be nationalizing industries . Ironically, Instapundit noted that the satirical site Babylon Bee previously had Bernie Sanders shouting for the nationalizing of toilet paper production.
One more time, a satire of a lefty merely paraphrases what a lefty says. Once again, a satire of a lefty merely shows us what lefties are capable of saying. Which is why Snopes was so up in arms about the Bee.
perhaps people anticipated the price would go up when it is in shortage due to whatever reasons. it is not like they are paying a higher price for it, even if nothing happens there is no loss for them, they could return the stuff later especially at costco where return after 30 days is allowed. only people who has a chance of losing is those unprepared because of their self proclaimed mental superiority/rationality then a massive shutdown of the nation hits. simple game theory, just like the great contributor here who is currently living in hong kong said earlier, your rationality will not keep your children from hungry when the shelves are emptied by the irrationals.
The irrationality is that if a situation arises where you need 50 rolls of toilet paper, you are also going to need a looooooooong list of items far more than toilet paper.
Mike
funny how when Bernie or other democrats make the same claim that conservatives don’t need to hoard all these guns especially semis conservatives said it is their choice and others should shut the f**k up about it.
Because it’s the end of the world.
Or so they would have you believe.
You must see this link about the great toilet paper pandemic
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/03/the-great-toilet-paper-pandemic-of-2020-and-twip-preview.php
We might be seeing the first case of worldwide mass hysteria. I first heard of Aussies buying toilet paper in panic and it has spread to many countries around the world. I went to the grocery store today and sure enough it was all gone not that I was there to purchase it. I was just there for my weekly grocery run. Other shelves that were completely empty included bread, pasta and all the meats. The same thing was true in an another grocery store I went to.
In my lifetime I can only recall one instance where I saw something like this. It was just after the USSR invasion of Afghanistan when gold was moving up parabolically. People were lining up to buy gold because if they didn’t …. who knows what they were thinking.
I knew everything wasn’t normal because as soon as I entered the store the cashiers were all wearing gloves. I went to pick up a trolley and the guy ahead of me was putting on gloves before touching it. Then there were people casually wearing masks. I spoke with the store manager about the toilet paper being bought up and he agreed that is was a case of mass panic. I recall reading a passage in a book about British colonial history and it mentioned how riots and herd mentality could form out of thin air on a regular basis in colonies. We are seeing the same. After all the book Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds isn’t a work of fiction. I am certain this event will be analyzed down the road.
Andy
The USSR’s invasion of Afghanistan was just a blip on the gold market at the time. The bigger influence on gold was the Hunt brother’s attempt to corner the silver market. Hunt silver Hoarding @ Duck Duck. Wikipedia: Silver Thursday:
I am not concerned about the virus itself, at least not more concerned than I would be about any run-of-the-mill flu contagion. However, I am a bit concerned about the hype and the “we’re all gonna die!!” attitudes of the media, and the public’s reaction thereof.
About toilet paper… When this first started about a month ago, my wife and I took stock of our larder and made a list of the things we should stock up on – just in case. Toilet paper was not on the list. We buy TP and other paper products in bulk from Sam’s about once every 6 months and we had plenty left from the last Sam’s run. We made a grocery run and stocked up on the things we needed. We’ve made grocery runs since then, but mostly for meat, bread, produce and other perishables.
This past Monday, we made our usual grocery run and the TP and paper towel isles, as well as the sanitary wipes and hand cleanser isles, were completely bare. We didn’t need any of that so it was no big deal to us. Everything else we needed was plentiful in stock. (Ribeyes and shrimp were on sale – yum!)
However, two days later, on Wednesday, my wife informs me that my near 90 year old mother was down to just four rolls of TP. Great! There was no problem sharing a six-pack or two from our supply, but we went by the grocery anyway to see if they had restocked. As it turned out, they had, but it was going fast! We grabbed three packages of 6 and the few other things she needed and high-tailed it out.
Does that make us hoarders? Running out of tp because there is no more in the store is not a disaster. But it is a major inconvenience – especially for an old woman like my mom.
At this point, I’m thinking the best thing we could all do is all of us go and find someone that has the virus and give them a big kiss. We’ll either get it or not, but either way, the whole stupid mess will be over in two or three weeks. (…I’m kidding! The fact is that even though I don’t worry about the virus for me, I *do* worry a bit about my 90 year old mother getting it from either one of us or one of her many grandkids.)
Roy,
Yep, my nearly 90 year old mom has been in precautionary lockdown for four days and her only visitor has been my sister for about 10 minutes and the staff member at her retirement home bringing her meal.
And they check everyone’s temp twice a day. All good so far but my mom is calling everyone a dozen times a day because she is stir crazy but that’s ok.
Gringo,
Actually the reaction in the silver market was more rational. Silveware was sold and some people put all their silver in boxes their basement with the mark “Tax receipts, Year 197x”. If you look at the daily gold chart from Dec 1979 you will notice how it spiked up after the USSR invasion. It also peaked before silver.
The facility my mom lives in seems to be really doing a good job following all the guidelines the state put in place especially when you consider there was no sign of anything there.
I’ve got to think every administrator has a ‘there but for the grace of god’ feeling when watching that Kirkland nursing home.
Even if NO ONE hoarded we should expect store shelves to be empty of a lot of items when everyone descends on the store at the same time. The fact that shelves are empty does not mean people are stupid or hysterical. Example— a radio DJ caused a gas shortage in Knoxville a few years ago when a hurricane looked like it might make landfall where our refineries are. He mentioned that it was possible there might be a shortage. More people than normal heard him and filled up. A couple of stations ran out. Word spread. More people rushed to fill up. Bingo — a full-fledged shortage with people rushing out to get in gas lines. This even though people can’t hoard gasoline! Distributors don’t keep enough on hand to allow everyone to fill up on the same day. That kind of capacity would be hugely expensive. As long as people fill up on their normal schedule, the system works fine. Same thing for Grocery stores. Empty shelves simply mean that the distribution system isn’t set up for everyone to buy at the same time. Much less massive quantities.
I didn’t understand why the stores are so busy either. Why should a pandemic reduce the supply of goods? [after all, most employees are not sick and are still working] My wife explained it: They are afraid of having to go to the stores later because, at that time, many more folks will be sick and the stores will be more dangerous. They see themselves hunkering down soon.
Griffin, not that it matters, but my mom is not in a “facility”. She lives in her own home, by herself. Based on her mom and her mom’s mom, if the virus doesn’t get her she could very well outlive me.
Stan, That’s a very good, succinct, explanation.
Dnaxy, while what your wife says might be true — and I, personally, consider the virus to be not all that dangerous *to me* — I think a lot of it could also be the possibility of folks having to self-quarantine in the very near future, losing ready access to the stuff they need. When my wife and I topped off our larder, that is what we had in mind.
In 2008 we were on an organized trip. We talked with a women who lived in NYC. Very pro BO/Dem. I told her that I could understand her way of life better than she could mine. I told her we buy TP by the big bundle (45 rolls at a time) and she said she just goes down to the corner Bodega and buys a roll when she needs one. Now she may be really SOL!
A friend, whose thoughts I respect, speculated that TP mania is easily explained. He thinks that panicked sheeple seak to control their panic by buying TP, assuring themselves they will be safe from the orangemanbad apocalypse if they have 500 rolls squirreled away. I think he may be correct.
I think part of the answer is a general perception (real or otherwise) that there is no alternative to toilet paper. The modern mind doesn’t get how millennia of humans handled body waste without it. And those that get how, don’t want to go there. I wonder if bidet attachments will be the next buying frenzy?
I continue to caution against the panic-panic — some people’s panic against what they call other people’s panic. I don’t really see much panic on either side.
I guess I’m in the throes of panic-panic-panic.
I went to the big Albuquerque supermarket this evening. It was a bit like walking around after a Florida hurricane. In addition to toilet paper many staples were picked clean — sugar, spaghetti and spaghetti sauce, chicken breasts, hamburger, a fair amount of frozen food, canned milk and Ben & Jerry’s ice cream. Everything else was OK. Shoppers didn’t act panicked.
I bought some cans, frozen stuff and rubbing alcohol in addition to the usual.
The liquor section remains well-stocked. I have a theory we’ll know it’s really hitting the fan when there’s a run on booze.
I don’t see the mystery to toilet paper. It’s cheap, doesn’t spoil and you really wouldn’t want to be without it. So why not?
There’s evolutionary sense to doing what other people do. The herd mentality isn’t always wrong. In fact I’d bet on it over the wisdom of the lone contrarian.
But you pays your money and you takes your chance. As always, it comes down to the specifics.
People who want to limit my purchase of ammo are buying 100s of rolls of TP.
All this hoarding and panic behavior is really getting out of hand!
I went to the grocery store this morning (as I always do for my weekly shopping) and observed this panic behavior:
cold medicine aisle – totally stripped bare. Not one thing on the shelves. I didn’t ask; but, was it because everything was sold? or did the store remove it and expect people to ask for it to make sure they really need it? I suspect the former; but, hope that it is he latter.
TP and paper towel aisle: there were employees at either end of the aisle, they blocked the aisle at both ends with “U-boats” (the long carts they use to move boxes around the store), two employees at either end were passing out, with a limit of 2 per customer, paper towels and tp packages. It looked like only the expensive kind were left. Thankfully, I didn’t need either. I did have paper towels on my list as I have less than half a roll left. But, I mainly use the paper towels for when I cook bacon in the microwave. I can use the frying pan if/when I finish the paper towels. After all, that’s what the generations before me did!
Dairy aisle: milk sold out. Luckily they did have my chocolate soy milk. yea! But, there was no OJ left. Bummer, I like my OJ in the morning. I will do without this coming week. I didn’t think of it until I got home; but, I should have checked to see if they had any frozen concentrate left. Probably not.
Water aisle: totally stripped bare. only distilled water left. I was asked to get a gallon of spring water for my elderly neighbor. Well, I had a bottle, unopened, at home which I gave her. I can use tap water for my tea and hot chocolate this coming week if I even want either one.
Since there was no milk for my morning cereal, I decided to buy some bread for morning toast. Nothing left except the expensive stuff. Nope, I do not want “artisan” toast! I’ll have oatmeal instead. Besides it might be a little bit healthier than cereal or toast.
Most of the fresh produce was okay; except bananas, only a few left. But, that is not unusual for my store. Normally, if I don’t get there before noon they will not have had time to restock those. but, this was still too early for that. I asked the produce guy and he said they had already put all the bananas out; but, were expecting more to come in later.
After my trip to the grocery store, I stopped off at the library to return books and pick up more. OMG! all the staff at the circulation desk had on surgical gloves! What? are the books infected?
All of this rather pisses me off! this panic behavior and panic hoarding DOES hurt others. Buying/taking things which one doesn’t really need (but gives the illusion of being “safe”) depletes the supply for those who really need it.
What if someone does come down with a cold or flu and there aren’t any more medicines to relieve their symptoms because of all the hoarders who depleted the stores shelves “just in case”?
What about nursing homes and other health care places that are already on a shoe-string budget because they take care of the working class and now cannot afford the rising price or the more expensive gloves because some head librarian wanted to “do something, better safe than sorry” for the staff?
Hoarding and panic behavior are anti-social in my opinion. And shame on the MSM and the Democrats for selling this fear; and shame of the public for not thinking rationally. But, then, this is the same insane public that voted for Obama TWICE!
rant over!
Dave on March 14, 2020 at 4:31 pm said:
perhaps people anticipated the price would go up when it is in shortage due to whatever reasons.
* * *
Backfired on this guy. Reminds me of Ammo Grrrl’s hippie chick with the milk.
https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2020/03/17700-bottles-hand-sanitizer-nowhere-sell/
As some here have noted, buying what you need, and will likely use, and having a margin for lack of goods to buy when you need them in the foreseeable future is NOT hoarding.
* * *
LYNN HARGROVE on March 14, 2020 at 8:41 pm said:
In 2008 we were on an organized trip. We talked with a women who lived in NYC. Very pro BO/Dem. I told her that I could understand her way of life better than she could mine. I told her we buy TP by the big bundle (45 rolls at a time) and she said she just goes down to the corner Bodega and buys a roll when she needs one. Now she may be really SOL!
* * *
Bodega girl sounds like my sister – single, no dependents, never had to go without anything she needed, minimum stock of necessities – maybe she would last a week. Sometimes she buys a few extra things before a hurricane is due, but not much.
We had five boys – if we ran out of something due to weather, illness, or a drop in the paycheck, it could really hurt. Now, we have the habit of keeping prudently ahead of the curve. (I bought my big TP stock about 5 years ago at a massive Sam’s sale; it’s keeping nicely.)
LJB on March 14, 2020 at 10:42 pm said:
…. I wonder if bidet attachments will be the next buying frenzy?
* * *
Number-4-son got one a couple of years ago and loves it; mine is waiting to be installed; Number-3 ordered one yesterday.
But don’t blame us if Amazon runs out of them.
On the one hand I am pleased that so many are cleaning their arse but on the other hand I am told by professionals that everything we touch has got feces on it. Now if we could just convince people to wash their hands afterwards.
Your point is a good one, neo, about the panic-buying encouraging panic-buying. I have enough TP that I didn’t pick any up last time, but when I heard that they were running out I figured maybe I should get some in case they don’t re-stock soon enough. By the time I got there it was all gone, at two different stores. I guess I will keep checking…
I also agree with the theory that people are stocking up on things as a way to control anxiety. That applies to me. It’s something to do that provides an illusion of control.
Canned food, water, tp, for 3 months. Bonus if you ahve solar power cells for your gadgets and laptops.
Living in hurricane country, we’re used to thinking about how to ensure that our stocks of perishables can last a few weeks in case there’s a supply disruption. I’ve been surprised to see how few people understand what the empty shelves are about: homeowners looked ahead to a possibly lengthy lockdown before the people in charge of stocking the store shelves did. Our local grocery store is pretty experienced with hurricanes and would naturally ramp up their inventory when a storm is in the Gulf, but this buying frenzy caught them temporarily unprepared. They’re in the business of selling, though, so they reacted quickly and are restocking as quickly as they can.
Why toilet paper and not rice and beans (or at least not so quickly?) Because imagination is limited. Running out of TP is a vivid and immediate picture, and triggers cleanliness anxieties. You’d think famine anxieties would be pretty acute, too, but I don’t know, for some reason not.
Same mentality that caused the Tulip Craze in Holland.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
It has no foundation in reality, but the belief produces scarcity, which reinforces the belief. It’s stupid, but relatively harmless.
I was in Walmart yesterday afternoon. The entire stock of napkins and toilet paper was gone. There were only about a half dozen packets of paper towels left, and by divine intervention I suppose, I managed to get a 4 pack of Bounty.
Also the cleaning supplies were nearly gone with the bleach completely sold out. Along with laundry detergent, canned goods (about 90% gone) and most of the wine.
I live in a small town and people panic here in a snowstorm, so this isn’t unheard of. But the fact this happening nationwide tells me people know this is more than just the flu. Thankfully everybody was nice and nobody was fighting or stealing from each other’s buggies.
Watch – in a couple of weeks, stores will be full of product with not a customer in sight because everyone bought a month’s worth of stuff in the last few days.
I say stop blaming ordinary people for “panic.”
The government is telling them — us — basically to shelter in place for the next couple weeks. In that light people are responding in ways that look mostly rational. Maybe they don’t need to buy that much toilet paper, but heck, why not?
Stores don’t plan their inventories on the basis that half their customers are suddenly going to buy enough to live at home for a couple weeks. Naturally such a demand will overwhelm store stocks. It will even out over a while.
The question I ask is whether the governments are panicking. But I don’t think they are either. This is a new approach. Maybe a good one. It hasn’t been tried before on such a massive, worldwide scale. We’ll have to see how it goes and assess after.
Univ of New Mexico has extended Spring Break, which started yesterday, an extra two weeks to April 5. Classes are cancelled, but professors are scrambling to put together some kind of online approach to continue their courses.
A silver lining to COVID is online learning and job telecommuting are getting a serious real-world trial, which I think is way overdue.
Huxley–exactly, it’s as if the entire country were facing a blizzard or hurricane at one time. It’s not panic, it’s preparing to be stuck at home for a couple of weeks. Although the occasional customer may be panicking, most people are just planning to self-isolate. The less they need to be out and about shopping in a couple of weeks, the better off our overloaded ERs and ICUs will be.
Amazon is stating today they are out of stock for many consumer staples so I guess it’s good all these people got their toilet paper and water. They also are having staffing problems as many workers at there delivery warehouses aren’t showing up.
TP fine and dandy.
What causes me some concern is the guy who runs the local power plant.
Amazon is stating today
Their archive of press releases is here:
https://press.aboutamazon.com/press-releases
Quit making stuff up.
Huxley–exactly, it’s as if the entire country were facing a blizzard or hurricane at one time. It’s not panic, it’s preparing to be stuck at home for a couple of weeks.
Yes, but the plans they’re making are odd. I can see canned goods and milk disappearing (as they have at our local store). However, the hoarders have cleaned the shelves of paper products two of the last three days.
Same mentality that caused the Tulip Craze in Holland.
No, it’s a different mentality. The tulip craze was a speculative bubble. We’re not seeing a price bubble in toilet paper or people trading toilet paper for items of incommensurate value.
What about nursing homes and other health care places that are already on a shoe-string budget because they take care of the working class
They take care of every stratum of society in need of 24 hour care. More affluent people have more intermediate steps between living on one’s own and living in the nursing home, but the end point’s the same. And they’re not on a shoe string. It’s just that 24 hour care is verrry expensive.
A friend posted on her Facebook page to say she’s got plenty of TP but not enough wine, and offered to trade. I like seeing a sense of humor. Some of this is not life and death, it’s just funny.
Art Deco,
CNBC.com the main page featured story.
Try harder.
Art Deco,
Your arrogant, sarcastic attacks on comments grow tiresome.
Sorry about that neo but it gets old. I’m out.
“Amazon is stating today
Their archive of press releases is here:
https://press.aboutamazon.com/press-releases
Quit making stuff up.”
I get that you’re a pretty smart guy. But why do you need to be such a d-bag to people?
Neo’s place used to be a lot more civil.
Griffin:
I’ve warned Art Deco when his arrogance crosses the line into violating the rules. I don’t always catch everything because sometimes I’m busy. Mild arrogance and sarcasm grates, and it doesn’t ordinarily endear a person – nor does it generally enhance the merit of an argument – but it doesn’t cross that line.
Huxley–exactly, it’s as if the entire country were facing a blizzard or hurricane at one time. It’s not panic, it’s preparing to be stuck at home for a couple of weeks. Although the occasional customer may be panicking, most people are just planning to self-isolate. — Wendy K Laubach
Driving around Albuquerque today I found the traffic refreshingly sparse as Christmas Day. At my cafe the early morning regulars showed but otherwise the cafe was empty.
The cafe staff now wear thin blue gloves. They’ve added a Clorox wipedown on the tables to their bussing routine.
The new vibe is different, but it isn’t panic, as Wendy K notes. More than anything else it does remind me of the blizzards and hurricanes I experienced in Massachusetts and Florida respectively.
People are preparing to hunker down for a while. Perhaps I am projecting, but there seems to be a sort of relief in the break from routine and the chance for some quiet time. No one’s hair is on fire.
I’m not sure what the authorities have planned after the next two weeks. I suspect they don’t know either.
The logic seems to be that if increased hygiene and social distancing are going to make a difference, it’s better to try sooner than later.
Who knows — the warmer weather may make a difference or a better shot at a vaccine may appear.
On April 28, when the Ransdoc Bureau announced that 8,000 rats had been collected, a wave of something like panic swept the town. There was a demand for drastic measures, the authorities were accused of slackness, and people who had houses on the coast spoke of moving there, early in the year though it was.
–Albert Camus, “The Plague”
I read “The Stranger” in high school. I was disconcerted and fascinated. I didn’t get to “The Plague,” but maybe it’s time…
Of all the existentialist writers I would have most liked to meet Camus.
“What if someone does come down with a cold or flu and there aren’t any more medicines to relieve their symptoms because of all the hoarders who depleted the stores shelves “just in case”?” – charles on March 15, 2020 at 12:35 am
* * *
You are describing is the tragedy of the commons, but in a free-market variation.
Because the items in a grocery store are typically affordable by most people (poor people have EBT cards, after all), and (until now) nobody counted the TP in your cart, they are essentially a species of unregulated commons.
It’s in the interest of the community to have (say) some Sudafed available to each member, but it’s in the interest of each individual to buy as many boxes as he* thinks he & his family might need over the duration of the crisis.
And each individual, rationally, makes the same calculation.
Now, every individual knows that foregoing a box he thinks he might need does not ensure that it will still be there on the shelf later, when “someone does come down with a cold or flu and there aren’t any more medicines to relieve their symptoms” because some other rational individual may have already taken it.
So, each of us buys what we think we might need, even if that depletes the supply for others, who might be more desperate.
NOTE: this speaks only about people such as we have all encountered (judging by the comments above), who are hunkering down for the duration, and does NOT address people buying far in excess of any rational personal need, nor scalpers looking to resell the goods to desperate buyers later.
(see my comment on another thread about the backlash to that).
*substitute the pronouns of your choice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
Whereas it is in the interests of all of the community not to over-graze the common plot, it is in the interest of each individual to put as many sheep out there as he owns.
Since each individual has the same personal interest, they all put all their sheep out, and deplete the grass within a short time.
Which is why we have private property and fences.
I posted this on another thread, but it demonstrates the very real value of self-isolating, which is a voluntary quarantine, and limiting contact aka social-distancing.
Excellent post by the WaPo (never thought I would write that sentence), because they aren’t pushing any politics.
This link wasn’t behind the paywall when I tried it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
Ohhhh-kaaay.
https://libertyunyielding.com/2020/03/15/as-the-coronavirus-stalks-america-milwaukee-pioneers-a-new-form-of-motorized-social-distancing/
Toilet paper does not prevent coronavirus,
BUT
Coronavirus might prevent toilet paper.
KyndyllG on March 15, 2020 at 1:33 pm said:
Watch – in a couple of weeks, stores will be full of product with not a customer in sight because everyone bought a month’s worth of stuff in the last few days.
* * *
Well, when they refill the shelves, I’ll get in my full year’s supply — after I buy another storage shed!