Bad news for General Flynn
It seems to me that General Flynn got bad tactical advice from the lawyers handling his appeal. This is the result:
Judge Sullivan had all but invited Flynn to withdraw his plea. He was accordingly unimpressed by the merits of Flynn’s various post-plea demands for documents and related motions. The opinion notes in several places that General Flynn does not dispute the falsity of the statements that form the basis of the charge against him. See, for example, opinion pages 32-34. Judge Sullivan emphasizes that Flynn had much of the requested information in hand when he chose to plead guilty. Assuming he was deprived of information he now seeks, Judge Sullivan concludes, the remedy would be trial rather than dismissal.
In other words, the judge says that if Flynn had wanted the kind of redress he sought, he should have withdrawn his plea and asked for a new trial. Because he did not do that, his request is denied.
This doesn’t seem to have much to do with the merits of the case. I don’t know whether Flynn is allowed to withdraw his plea now and ask for a retrial. Perhaps Trump will ultimately pardon him. And it does seem quite extraordinary that Flynn’s crime was to supposedly lie to the FBI and yet the FBI has covered itself with shame lately.
given how we are learning more and more about the teutonic nazi Müller and his team of Wannsee collaborators, Sullivans decision will likely be thrown out on appeal no matter what.
Courts meddle a great deal but don’t protect us very much.
The good judge has ruled according to the law. Justice be damned. And the prosecutors, the real lawbreakers… face no consequence.
I think Flynn made the mistake of meeting with the Federal Bureau of Intimidation without a shark of an attorney present. Trump should pardon him if he receives a jail sentence.
This is the judge who entirely unbidden leapt to the conclusion that Flynn was a treasonous traitor and had to backtrack and apologize. Truly a neutral magistrate! When we’re done hosing out the Augean Stables of the federal intelligence and law enforcement sinecures we need to get after the judges. Hideous, shameful, unworthy behavior on the part of this judge. Just awful.
Flynn, on advice of counsel, took a plea for tactical reasons. Lots of people do this every day to avoid the cost and risk of trial. Given the intensity of the prosecution here, still (STILL!) trying to send him up the river when he’s clearly not guilty, I don’t blame him one bit.
Flynn has a lot of problem withdrawing his guilty plea. He swore to a number of things in connection with his plea. He acknowledged a number of things. He has been pressed at least twice (once with his old lawyers, once with his new lawyers) on whether he was withdrawing his plea. Because most of the things that are problematic were revealed to Flynn before he pleaded, it is very hard to build a case that he was defrauded. Because he pleaded guilty, it is hard to get appellate review absent some showing that he was defrauded.
Flynn’s best chance of relief is a pardon from Trump after the Senate craps on the House’s articles of impeachment.
Regarding Flynn not having counsel present, this was a set up admitted by ( ta da) James Comey!
Comey said ordinarily sending FBI to the WH involves some approval from WH lawyers etc. But Comey says they knew the incoming admin had some confusion discombobulation trying to set up so FBI figured this was the ideal time to do some snaring so the *friendly call * was made to gen Flynn could he just clear some things up for a couple of agents?
Similar to Biden bragging about getting Ukranian investigator fired, Comey bragged about his agents getting the job done.
Precedent has been set, clearly never talk to the FBI take the 5th
I can’t help but feel that the actions of all involved in trying to carry out this attempted coup–to further it, to sustain it, to legitimize it, and to cheer it on–in our government–at State and the CIA, at the DOJ, FBI, UN, and in other parts of our Federal government, apparently, to some extent, within the White House itself, in Congress, in 90% or more of the MSM, among some of our supposed “Allies,” in the Courts, in Academia, have–by their actions and statements–succeeded in unconsciously creating a watershed event–a spreading ripple effect–after which nothing will ever be quite the same again.
They have managed to create a major and–I’m sure, quite unwanted–change in many millions of citizen’s perceptions and world-view.
They have succeeded in discrediting themselves to such an extent that they have reshaped millions of citizen’s perceptions about the honesty, the maturity, and the integrity of those who we gave the responsibility and the powerful tools to protect and defend our traditional Constitutional order, our Republic and, ultimately, all of us and our Rights and Freedom; institutions and the people running them we had thought were basically honest, responsible adults, people and patriots who were trying to do their best for the defense of our nation and polity.
Now, I’d bet, many millions of our fellow citizens have grave–and perhaps irreversible–doubts, about their formerly all too sanguine belief that there were strong and capable hands on the tiller, and that we were all in the best possible hands.
For what I suspect are many millions, those rosy assumptions have–bit-by-bit been destroyed, to be replaced–as the evidence pours out–by grave, deeper and deeper seated doubts, wariness, and suspicion; our formerly much more comfortable and reassuring world “turned upside down.”
Maddy Prior and the Carnival Band: The World Turned Upside Down
https://youtu.be/t-eSGMlxx5I
Neo, thank you for discussing this case. You are the first right-of-center commentator that has offered an opinion. I am grateful that someone on our side is willing to take a look at “bad news.”
sdferr–One set of lyrics to the 1643 ballad, “The World Turned Upside Down”–
“If buttercups buzz’d after the bee,
If boats were on land, churches on sea,
If ponies rode men and if grass ate the cows,
And cats should be chased into holes by the mouse,
If the mamas sold their babies
To the gypsies for half a crown;
If summer were spring and the other way round,
Then all the world would be upside down.”
See http://www.contemplator.com/england/worldtur.html
Further to Flynn’s troubles, please go right now to a You Tube video of a classroom talk given by law professor Tom Duane called “Don’t Talk to the Police”. Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
You’ll learn something for sure.
Sorry. It is James Duane. This video is speeded up a bit. When I first watched it five years ago it was at normal speed. James Duane is great here, but not this hyper in real life. But you get an hour’s worth of class in 45 minutes. Such a deal!
Re: Flynn Lying to the FBI
It was a plea deal! Allow me to explain.
Over the summer, a cop pulled me over for doing 85 mph in a 55 zone. I’m all “yes sir officer”. He’s a little chatty. He likes my car; yada yada yada, he knocks me down to 70.
I plead not guilty. I put on a suit and go to court. Everyone else is dressed for a BBQ. The Judge is friendly. I crack some jokes. We talk about the stock market.
He offers me a plea deal; “if you plead guilty to jaywalking, we’ll drop the speeding ticket”. I plead guilty.
Did I jaywalk? Hell no! But that’s not the point. I did something way worse.
Flynn was railroaded.
But that seems to be very much AOK for some people.
Meanwhile the usual suspects will continue to talk about “justice’…
Flynn did nothing wrong. Obama hated him, that was it.
Manju, we get what a plea deal is. The problem is, they forced this guy to take a plea on a smaller thing he didn’t do rather than destroy him and his kid over outrageous things they didn’t do. Thanks to our tax dollars, the FBI has unlimited resources to harass people until they financially bleed to death. They were blatantly going around squeezing everyone who had ever crossed paths with Trump in an attempt to get someone to choke up dirt on Trump, and they didn’t care how many lives they ruined along the way. None of this was by-the-book, or fair, or in any way adhering to the rule of law.
None of us thought this sort of abuse could happen here, but as MollyNH says, we can at least take a lesson. Do not ever, ever, not ever, talk to the FBI.
It seemed to me that Gen Flynn’s current attorney spent way too much time on social media, when she should have spent more time thinking & writing. She helped her own image, while harming her client by making a junior attorney error.
It’s beyond me how any truly experienced attorney could blow this in such an obvious way as Judge Sullivan has pointed out. Her belief that the Sen Stevens case was just like this one is so obviously wrong, and the judge pointed that out (Stevens declared his innocence & went to trial).
Maybe Flynn needs to ask the judge for a recommendation for his next legal team…
Gen Flynn wasn’t guilty, but pled guilty.
Because he was pressured, including pressure on his son.
Maybe his son, IS guilty? Like Hunter Biden is guilty? And Chelsea Clinton & her husband are guilty? And John Kerry’s son is guilty?
Flynn should certainly ask for, and receive a pardon, or at least clemency, after sentencing. Perhaps he should have withdrawn his guilty plea — others said earlier it was legally better that he didn’t.
I’m not sure what the alternative likely results were from a) don’t withdraw plea — which leads to this bad result, but perhaps could have led to a fine result? 10% good? 80%? good? Even “good decisions” can have bad results.
b) withdraw the plea – leads to a new trial? new evidence? new prosecution & investigation of his son? Too many don’t knows about the factual legal system, and the issue of the son’s guilt.
On yet the political hand, Flynn sort of becomes a bit of a martyr, unjustly overpunished by the dishonest FBI dirty cops.
In real life, there’s never a “just” way to handle injustice and unfairness in a “justice system”. And Flynn isn’t even yet sentenced.
There should be more news about Flynn’s son, and how and why he was being investigated.
–My guess: he’s guilty of some things his father would prefer to protect him from facing a Dem justice system from.