Love at first sight – in the movies
Of course, it helps to have Shakespeare writing your lines.
But still, words – even Shakespeare’s – are not enough to convey the experience (one that some deny, but that does truly exist) of love at first sight. Not just lust, not just attraction, but love.
You say it can’t happen that way? I’ve seen it happen, and not just in the movies. But now I’m going to talk about the movies – in particular, this scene from Zefferelli’s “Romeo and Juliet” (unfortunately the first line and a half is missing; it’s Romeo saying “If I profane with my unworthiest hand/This holy shrine…”):
It helps that the actors are both extraordinarily beautiful. That’s the lust part, which happens instantaneously. But the thing that has always impressed me about this scene and this dialogue and this version is that you see two distinct processes. You see them looking at each other and being smitten with the way they match physically. Juliet’s eyes especially convey this, although there’s an earlier scene where Romeo sees her for the first time and something similar happens to him.
But the real transition to love comes from their words, their delighted discovery – through some rather sophisticated and highly flirtatious banter – that their minds match as well, and their emotions. They are both intense, intelligent, poetic, and quick. Not only is their dialogue a sonnet, but the images they use and the juxtaposition of religion with romance is poetic and clever and a bit daring. Again, in Juliet’s eyes (she’s younger than Romeo) you see her seriousness alternating with the playful joy of discovery. Why, he’s not just the handsomest guy I ever saw, but he’s on my wavelength too!
Here’s the dialogue in sonnet form:
R: If I profane with my unworthiest hand
This holy shrine, the gentle fine is this:
My lips, two blushing pilgrims, ready stand
To smooth that rough touch with a tender kiss.
J: Good pilgrim, you do wrong your hand too much,
Which mannerly devotion shows in this;
For saints have hands that pilgrims’ hands do touch,
And palm to palm is holy palmers’ kiss.
R: Have not saints lips, and holy palmers too?
J: Ay, pilgrim, lips that they must use in prayer.
R: O, then, dear saint, let lips do what hands do;
They pray, grant thou, lest faith turn to despair.
J: Saints do not move, though grant for prayers’ sake.
R: Then move not, while my prayer’s effect I take.
So brilliant, so perfect!
[NOTE: The movie changes the word “fine” in the second line to “sin.” I don’t know why they did that, but it’s not a good change.]
It’s been perfectly clear for decades that liberals (including and especially lawfare artists on the bench and their collaborators in the ‘public interest bar’) fancy it is simply illegitimate to oppose liberal policy initiatives or the interests of the Democratic Party. Gelding the judiciary is going to be necessary if constitutional government is to be restored.
and when the person doing the acting is remarkable, the synergy and the power is incredible, even for dead white guys
note that Shakespeare proves that the common man, didn’t much have any care about skin color… given the plays were written for the commoners, not royalty, and that Othello, was the play that had problems LATER in our history..
Acting Shakespeare [Ian Sir McKellen]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rVdTsU8Qd8
he does a stupendous romeo and Juliet showing how dirty it really was..
“Love is expressed more in deeds than in words.” St. Ignatius Loyola
cornhead on November 16, 2019 at 3:49 pm said:
“Love is expressed more in deeds than in words.” St. Ignatius Loyola
Then your going to LOVE the new sprite commercial!!!!
SPRITE – ORGULLO – PUCHO MENTASTI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=WW5hrCgMPJ4&feature=emb_logo
Art:
You clearly misunderstood the quote.
not really… I think they did though…
here, let me show i didnt..
“Let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth” (1 John 3:18)
“These things I speak . . . that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves” (John 17:13)
“The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life” (John 6:63).
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 1 John 3:18
You can almost IMAGINE John Lennon saying that..
but not this: “Deus Caritas est”
“and Adam knew Eve his wife and she conceived and bore him Cain” (Gen.4:1).
The world KNEW is the key here as the Torah (the Pentateuch) uses “lada’at
brings new meaning to things when people say yada, yada, yada.. 😉
and quite reflects Shakespears usage and play with words, but how many goy know the torah? maybe more than one would give credit for? would you give credit Cornhead?
”any love that is dependent on a physical factor, when that factor is no more, the love is no more; but (that love) which is not dependent upon a physical factor never ceases. (An example of) what is love that is dependent on a physical factor is (that of) Amnon and Tamar. And (an example of) love that is not dependent on a physical thing is the love of David and Jonathan.” (Avot,5:16)
At least as far as we know about David and Jonathan..
Before you curse me, remember that any act of insult against another is an act against god… at least if you do understand the torah.. which is why Hillel the elder when questioned by a gentile as to being able to summarize the torah while he stood on one foot, answered basically the whole of it is do unto others as you would have done to you, a message a lot of the people of the tribes forget, especially in business.
Then again… who wants to discuss things with someone that has read so much they exist as an island in a sea of men.. I wait for teshuvah..
I do believe in Lust at first sight, with potential Love.
Also, that merely a look can very quickly establish an emotional mental “being in sync” with another person to some extent.
Still, Love is commitment, requiring reason.
Which needs a bit more than even the strongest of “First sights”.
But Love on the First Meeting is possible, tho very uncommon.
Now I think of that James Blunt song about “sharing a moment that will last to the end”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oofSnsGkops&list=PLGqkITntl2rGY106auaHskMURdePyNjxY&index=2&t=0s
Obsession is not love, tho it can be “pure”.
I’m sure I’m not alone in interest in any real life “Love at First Sight” stories.
Has anyone ever tried to quote this to a certain someone at high school prom? I think I hadn’t realized the presence of the sonnet in this segment. That is interesting.
Married 53 years because of love/lust at first sight. So yes, it does happen in the real world.
I’ve no doubt something happens which some people call “love at first sight,” but it seems to happen to a very small number of people, usually quite attractive, so I wonder what it means in the bigger picture.
I’m an average-looking bloke. That’s not one of my experiences. Bully for anyone who has. But it comes under my heading of “Terribly Interesting Issues for Really Attractive People.” It doesn’t have much to do with me.
I would be more interested in such stories happening to ordinary people. Got any of those?
Maybe it’s reincarnation. Maybe it’s hormones. Maybe both are reminded of their parents.
Bogie and Bacall maybe? Radner and Wilder? Brooks and Bankroft? Dunno. R. R. and Nancy?
sdferr: Those people all seem “really attractive” to me.
One could argue Brooks on looks, but he was a Hollywood star and one of the funniest men who ever lived. Did he and Bancroft claim “love at first”?
I’m talking about the people you see at the Post Office or the grocery store. How many of them have experienced “love at first sight”?
Bogie’s powerful but not a looker. Nor Wilder, nor Brooks. Reagan, ok, he’s kinda handsome. But yeah, they’re all powerhouses in their way, and the ladies all fine looking as well as brainy. None are average by my account. But they all seem to have been smitten quick, and for life — though save Reagan’s case, the other three faced an early demise.
I don’t limit “really attractive” to looking like Robert Redford or Raquel Welch. Maybe I’m gay or something, but Bogie is plenty handsome to my eyes.
Again, let’s talk about the Post Office or grocery store level of attractiveness.
I’ve got friends from school who flipped for each other, neither one good looking, though they’re both stellar thinkers with huge swaths of life interests in common. Still married now 41 yrs later, with five kids out of the house carrying on their own lives, with grandkids coming back into the house.
Oops. Wrong thread.
Bogie has the face of a bloodhound. That isn’t to denigrate dogs, but still . . .
huxley,
Just because it never happened to you doesn’t mean it is exceedingly rare. My wife and I met when I sat down next to her in physics 101. Just one look was all it took. And 53 year later, here we are still together. I do believe scent was a factor where we were concerned. BTW I found her strikingly attractive (still do) and I was a rather attractive fellow in my youth according to more than one female source.
Just because it never happened to you doesn’t mean it is exceedingly rare.
parker: What’s your estimate? I said a very small number. Personally, I don’t know any couple who claims to have fallen in love at first sight.
Plus what you tell me what fits my hypothesis — she was “strikingly attractive” and you were “rather attractive” to multiple females when you were both young. That sounds like a tick mark for my claim.
How many people do you see at the Post Office or grocery store that you think have experienced “love at first sight”?
Or we could take Ringo’s word for it:
(Would you believe in a love at first sight?)
Yes I’m certain that it happens all the time.
–The Beatles, “I Get By With a Little Help from My Friends”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C58ttB2-Qg
huxley,
I have no opinion as to how often it happens. All I know is it does happen.
I have no opinion as to how often it happens. All I know is it does happen.
parker: And I agreed immediately up at the top that it does. Yet you are taking to task for saying a “very small number”. Que pasa?
I’ve got friends from school who flipped for each other, neither one good looking, though they’re both stellar thinkers with huge swaths of life interests in common.
sdferr: Was that “love at first sight”?
Or did they have a date or two and think, “Hmm. He/She looks good enough, we’re both smart, we laugh at the same jokes, and we’ve got some chemistry happening. Let’s see where it goes.” Then it did.
That’s great, of course, but is it “love at first sight”?
I wasn’t present to witness huxley, but that’s how they told it, as lafs (good acronym, neh?). Too, though each had dated a bit before, neither had experienced anything of that intensity before, they said. So I count it that way.
Dated others, I meant.
sdferr: OK. Just wondering.
My impression is most people, even really attractive people, do some fishing around before they decide “This is the One.”
Also they were both virgins but after a brief couple of days of how do you do they climbed in the sack and didn’t leave it much for a week, the story goes. Think there was some alcohol involved, though she went teetotal shortly thereafter. Married a few months later, first kid came along after a year and a half.
“I think I hadn’t realized the presence of the sonnet in this segment.” — Phillip
Ditto.
I’m not surprised that I didn’t see it, being but a teen when I last read the play, but I am very much disappointed that none of my HS English teachers, who were very good ones, brought it to our attention, even though we were treated to the Zefferelli movie at school when it came available back in the day.
huxley – I have some anecdotal evidence by two separate couples (one in my family), that they experienced the joint LAFS phenomenon. A third story was one-sided, but Grandpa talked Grandma around pretty quickly.
None of them were outstandingly attractive, although they weren’t ugly.
As a postscript, our college produced annually a Shakespearean play, and one year it was Romeo & Juliet.
A fellow Thespian and I, who had appeared in other shows together as “characters,” agreed that the two of us (competent actors, not ugly, but not gorgeous) would never be cast as the leads, and indeed we were not.
I think I’m mostly with you, huxley.
What are we talking about here. Is it purely physical? So you see someone across a room that you find very attractive but then you talk to them and they say or do something off putting. So you were wrong in your first impression?
If it’s more than physical and involves conversation then I question if that’s at first sight.
I guess I can buy it if after a first date or even some interaction but at first sight I don’t know.
I wonder if it’s also selective memory where we remember the positive ‘first sights’ and dismiss those not so correct first impressions.
I think I like ‘intriguiged at first sight’. That’s happen to me.
Re the change from “gentle fine” to “gentle sin”:
Link: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a774/d134a6ad8c5d6d65570370a86a83460f7091.pdf
Dunno. R. R. and Nancy?
Nancy Reagan gave 30 years ago an account of their first meetings. She’d contacted him for help (in his capacity as president of the Screen Actors Guild) with getting work. It seems she was being confused with an actress who had a similar name and who was on some sort of blacklist. She said they had very extensive conversations that extended well beyond her work-related problems. They were married in short order. What wasn’t known until decades later was that they married in a rush because she was pregnant. Abnormally affectionate couple those two, which may have diminished the quality of their child-rearing. The Reagans had just about the most embarrassing children of anyone similarly situated, though Steve Ford, Eleanor Roosevelt’s brood, and Dwight Eisenhower’s atrocious grand-daughters can certainly compete in that sweepstakes.
“Some Enchanted Evening” from South Pacific may reference an event described In Something wonderful : Rodgers and Hammerstein’s Broadway revolution a book by Todd S. Purdum. Hammerstein was on a cruise with his wife and locked eyes with a married woman across the floor, she became his wife.
Regarding “fine” versus “sin,” the original text definitely says “sin.” https://shakespeare-navigators.com/romeo/Note_Romeo_and_Juliet_1_5_94.html
She lost it at the movies….
(Then she really lost it after the 1968 elections….)
Er, make that 1972….
“If it’s more than physical and involves conversation then I question if that’s at first sight.”
I agree. Not quite first sight – smell, sound, touch and conversation are important.
Yet, with Lust attraction at first sight, followed in first meeting with multi-sense multi-emotion confirmation of attraction, LAFS is not wrong to claim. I don’t quite claim it for my wife and I, since she was NOT sure and I was only certain she was a possible love; but 25 years of happily ever after so far.
Thanks for other stories!
Long term off and on relationship with my first love. When I decided I was ready to take the plunge and get married, she had already said yes to another man. Thus began six years of dating many women, but falling for none. One day at a church social I noticed a beautiful young woman serving coffee. It was lust at first sight. I introduced myself and she rather reluctantly accepted my offer of a first date. She was going “steady” with another man, but felt an immediate attraction to me. One month later we married. That was 63 years ago and she has created a place in my heart that exceeds anything I ever thought possible. Perhaps not “love” at first sight, but certainly a chemistry that endured.
That’s not to say that we see eye to eye on everything. We have our differences and we have our debates, but we have always managed to work things out because our love for one another exceeds our differences.
In looking back, I can see that I recognized very quickly that she was an independent minded, self confident woman who could stand on her own two feet. The life I was looking at as a Naval aviator meant many long separations that required a wife with just such qualities. As the years have gone by I have appreciated her ability to take care of herself and our children without my being home, being a wonderful homemaker and mother, being intensely loyal, and having a sense of humor about all the challenges we have faced.
I have often wondered what might have happened had I not forced myself to cross that room and introduce myself. Or if she had turned down my offer of a date. If that had happened, I doubt my life would have been nearly as happy and fulfilled as it has been.
Romance, a lost art. Courtship, a lost cause. We’re not children anymore. We can moderate our appetite for instant gratification.
I can see that I recognized very quickly that she was an independent minded…
First, comes lust (i.e. external correlations). Then, comes love (i.e. character correlations). Throughout, there is observation, deduction, and trust, even inference to predict the future based on past performance and contemporary commitments.
We have our differences and we have our debates,
The art of reconciliation. For better or worse, we are not a universe unto ourselves. Men and women are equal in rights and complementary in Nature.
I find hate at second glance more prevalent today
its hard to have love at first sight when the leading advisors are teaching women to hate themselves and the people they want to love..
THE WORKS
OF
WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE.
CAMBRIDGE:
PRINTED BY C. J. CLAY, M.A.
AT THE UNIVERSITY PRESS.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/47715
Rom. [To Juliet] If I profane with my unworthiest hand[363] This holy shrine, the gentle fine is this,[364] My lips, two blushing pilgrims, ready stand[365] To smooth that rough touch with a tender kiss.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/47715/47715-h/47715-h.htm#FNanchor_364_364
There is, however, a lack of consensus.
[364] fine] Theobald (Warburton). sin Q2 Q3 Ff. Sinne (Q1) Q4 Q5. is this] be this Hammer.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/47715/47715-h/47715-h.htm#Footnote_364_364
Sin seems to be a contextual match for profane. A gentle sin. It’s love, not lust, albeit before commitment, before pledging their faith to each other. Love at first sight.
I have definitely felt an instant, shared chemistry with several women on first sight, and they with me. When it happens you know. You simply know. And it’s mutual.
If you have just seen a person for the first time, you don’t know the person. All you know is what you see. So, that may well be lust at first sight. Following which, getting to know the person means you may or may not want to follow up.
There’s an additional issue which has to do with some kind of subliminal recognition.
Example. Decades ago, I dealt with a guy who, had he possessed more intelligenc and ambition, might have made a reasonably successful petty thief. But I kept dealing with him and being disappointed.
I then noted that around the eyes and nowhere else, not even close, he looked something like my brother who’d been killed overseas three years earlier. After that occurred to me, I stopped dealing with the guy.
Point is, the first sight person might have some characteristic which reminds you, unconsciously, of an important person in your life.
That said, I’ve had no LATFS experience in my life.
Robert Heinlein, in his story called “If This Goes On”, or “Revolt in 2100”. He referred to “puppy love” which might be unrequited lust. But “it hurts”.
and where do MHCs play in all this? easy… they are what causes it to happen or not happen… but i wanted to hear what people say about the experience of what is ultimately the outcome of smell… Researchers cant figure out whether its plastics that are making girls have their first menses early, because they refuse to accept that she can smell her blood father.. and if he is around, she develops slower, and if he is not around, she develops faster.. primate males have a habit of killing the children of the prior mates, sometimes the females do this to get a new mate, so its quite complicated.. but the outcome of this, is that when the blood father is around, and she smells him (and not part time but living there), she is safer, and so does not mature faster and has time to develop smarter and so on… but without it, nature rushes things so that she can walk off and be a prize for a mate rather than worm food by mom or dad killing her. abandoning her, she is more likely to survive if she developed early..
now, about mating… we love those who are different in MHCs than we are.
[note that love at first site happened more in the past because women did not have birth control pills which puts them in a state of pseudo pregnancy where a woman favors her own blood over the husbands… so women on the pill tend to find men and like the if they are closer to their family genetics.. but normally, she would not like this.. so this leads to divorces later when she cant have kids, comes off the constant of the pill and dislikes her husband and likes other men who are more distant as expressed in the MHCs]
so what does MHC mean?
Major histocompatibility complex
now the funny thing about all this, is that we naturally want to mate with people distant, which goes against the idea that we are racist… and why misconcategnation laws were created to stop what we do naturally, which is mix.
Influence of HLA on human partnership and sexual satisfaction
and so, this is why we dont have a perfume that turns the opposite sex on
nature wont be fooled that way for such an important job… sadly, birth control can
MHC related mate choice is guided by the sense of smell in vertebrates. Parts of the heavy chains of the MHC glycoproteins are detected in various body fluids like saliva, urine and sweat.
It is an interesting question, how humans are able to perceive HLA related peptides. Humans have no functional vomeronasal organ
It turned out that opposites did attract, particularly when women were most fertile. “As the [MHC] similarity increases, women are more turned off toward the guy sexually and more likely to be fantasizing about other men, specifically when she’s at the fertile point in her cycle,” said study team member Randy Thornhill, a biologist at the University of New Mexico.
Not only did they fantasize, but women in similar-MHC relationships reported more sexual encounters outside with other men.
and lastly:
MHC-correlated odour preferences in humans and the use of oral contraceptives.
Birth Control Pills Affect Women’s Taste in Men
How synthetic hormones change desire in women—and their choice in a mate
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/birth-control-pills-affect-womens-taste/
as an easier to understand source..
this also could be why certain negatives increased..
as its the equivalent of skewing towards inbreeding…
Re the effect of birth control pills on attraction, here’s a study that says it isn’t so:
https://gizmodo.com/birth-control-probably-doesnt-change-who-youre-attracte-1825745979
Assortative mating is a great force in human evolution, so we should really expect that the human nature has its inbuilt devices for proper recognition of good matches and should ensure their full fulfilment in mutual adoration and care. That all is for children sake and for keeping human race strong and healthy.
A happenstance encounter this morning on my part with a comparison on Terry Teachout’s part (emphasis added): “I was certain that my discovery of the magical ‘Pastoral’ was more than just another passing fancy. It spoke to me, as did the rest of the Serenade, with a directness and immediacy not unlike the miraculous sensation of falling in love at first sight (something that had yet to happen to me). I knew beyond doubt that whoever Benjamin Britten was, his music would henceforth play an important part in my life–and so it did, and does.”
In off topic aside, Teachout’s 25 albums are of some interest themselves, both on musical grounds as well as in a merely historical sense.
Regarding “Sin” and “Fine”, this is kind of out there and I’m presenting it as an observation rather than an argument, but :
Benny Hill once did a routine based on the fact that in some old texts the characters for “s” and “f” were basically identical.
Throw in the vagaries of spelling that were common in Shakespeare’s time (Walt Kelly’s Pogo once observed that he didn’t even spell his own name consistently), and “sinne” might have been misread as “finne”, or vice versa.
Regarding love at first sight, I think it does happen but it only works if it’s mutual, which is probably pretty rare.
David Foster on November 18, 2019 at 8:32 am said:
Re the effect of birth control pills on attraction, here’s a study that says it isn’t so:
its misrepresenting… the studies i showed were in the detail of actual attraction
the one your linking to is really this study they link to
No Compelling Evidence that Preferences for Facial Masculinity Track Changes in Women’s Hormonal Status
ie… the smell doesnt change the faces they like…
This is nothing new… as women dont select men by beauty like men select women… women look at things like status, carry, even hands and feet… as much if not more than the face…
ergo the saying:
Power is the greatest aphrodisiac
obviously if power makes your blood go whoo whoo… face has to be secondary
but of course, they are now selling that being a man is being a “twink”
the Asians using a term translated loosely as “Little Fresh Meat”
Little Fresh Meat (????is an internet buzz word in China used to describe handsome young males. It is most commonly used for celebrities, particularly a rising star
As the term “little fresh meat” has been used by women to express their desire/hunger for young, good-looking men, a psychologist stated that it is a progress for women to recognize their sexual needs and self-gratification in the otherwise restrained society in China
[except that when they follow a dictated fad, they end up even less happy as the cougers lose their young men, and the young men get older… they do not build a lasting loving relationship as they did before, they build surface shallow relationships that have little to bond them]
The popularity of the “little fresh meat” have also saw a change in tide, where beauty and cosmetic companies in China are starting to ask young male celebrities to endorse their products instead of female celebrities
Black Pigeon Speaks explores the relationship between moonbattery and metrosexual unmanliness, which the ChiCommies suspect the USA of having weaponized
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=3tr43h-N7hc&feature=emb_logo
they been trying to metrosexualize since the 1980s…
as they think women want lesbian relationships, and men should be more like a woman with a penis… or a woman with a penis that doesnt believe they are male?
Sergey on November 18, 2019 at 9:05 am said:
Assortative mating is a great force in human evolution……..
its believed that this is the cause of the rise in autism..
Evidence of Assortative Mating in Autism Spectrum Disorder
and other things like being deaf… (because deaf people marry deaf people now much more than before)… and size… etc..
the negatives that make their ability to marry into the mainstream, causes their recessives to come out
autosomal recessive disorders are increased by that kind of mating
which goes against, women’s desire to have farther apart MHC and so healthier children that do not suffer such..
i worked in genetics, my friend was the head of the genetics area, my son graduated honors in genetics… its a hobby for me for fun not profit..
There are so many unproven hypotheses about causes of the rise of autism that I do not seriously take any one of them. The very assertion that autism is on rise is doubtful. And for me genetics was not a hobby, but a profession, and I published a monograph on this topic in university publishers. The working of evolution is aimed at perfection of the human race in the long run, and it requires many sacrifices from every generation of humans. Also, this instant recognition of an inherently compatible person works not only in romantic relationships, but in friendships of all kinds too.
Sergey:
Good point; “at first sight” works with friendship, too.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/western-individualism-arose-from-incest-taboo/
WEIRD – The Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic (WEIRD) societies of Western Europe and what the authors call “their cultural descendants in North America and Australia” have long been recognized as outliers among the world’s populations for their independence of thought and other traits, such as a willingness to trust strangers.
No marriage of cousins >> support for the nuclear family.
With or without LAFS.
Hate to be a Debbie-downer but I never liked this scene. For one thing, the palm-to-palm line should’ve been Juliet’s left and right palms, not hers and Romeo’s. This would show the prayer gesture which is the verbal ruse this whole game is played on. Worse, for me, was the extreme closeups. I really, really detested those the first time I saw it and even now, watching it 40 years later, I repulse at it.
Finally, I never thought these actors “beautiful.” They seem exotic in looks but not beautiful. But hey, beauty’s in the eye of the beholder.
At any rate, this entire film was a miss for me. I was teaching “Romeo and Juliet” to high school freshmen back in the day and it just didn’t do it for me. But there was one scene I remember that stood out and I loved: when the Prince thunders at the end, “All are punish’d.” That was good.
The question remains how this magic of instant rapport actually works, in terms of neural biology. I found the answer in an article in “American Greatness” I have read today. So, I just copy it here:
“The answer goes deep into our neural structures as humans, and in particular, to the amazing brain structure called our mirror neurons. We are deeply social beings, with infants that are deeply dependent on adults for a long time. So knowing how others are feeling isn’t a nicety, it’s a necessity for survival. When we see other people, and in particular when we see their expressive faces, our mirror neurons recreate inwardly the neural patterns that we would have if we ourselves were showing that facial expression. Often we actually do mimic the expression outwardly as well.”
Sergey on November 18, 2019 at 12:34 pm said:
There are so many unproven hypotheses about causes of the rise of autism that I do not seriously take any one of them. The very assertion that autism is on rise is doubtful. And for me genetics was not a hobby, but a profession, and I published a monograph on this topic in university publishers.
good for you… and my comment as hobby is that i no longer work there
but hey… the fact that the rates in silicon valley are up and that papers have proven it… while the docs wrote papers, i read them – something they could never quite find the time to – but having complete access to this stuff and an eidetic memory helps
Evidence of Assortative Mating in Autism Spectrum Disorder.
Assortative mating is a nonrandom mating system in which individuals with similar genotypes and/or phenotypes mate with one another more frequently than would be expected in a random mating system. Assortative mating has been hypothesized to play a role in autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in an attempt to explain some of the increase in the prevalence of ASD that has recently been observed. ASD is considered to be a heritable neurodevelopmental disorder, but there is limited understanding of its causes.
We investigated genotypically similar mating pairs using genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism data on trio families (Autism Genome Project data [1590 parents] and Simons Simplex Collection data [1962 parents]). To determine whether or not an excess in genetic similarity was present, we employed kinship coefficients and examined spousal correlation between the principal components in both the Autism Genome Project and Simons Simplex Collection datasets. We also examined assortative mating using phenotype data on the parents to detect any correlation between ASD traits.
We found significant evidence of genetic similarity between the parents of ASD offspring using both methods in the Autism Genome Project dataset. In the Simons Simplex Collection, there was also significant evidence of genetic similarity between the parents when explored through spousal correlation.
this is out THIS YEAR… ie new information
and i can show you a lot more since my job was to actually work with these data sets… i am a data magician… over 30 years of working with databases, math, and more and starting early from bronx science…
oh. the conclusion: CONCLUSIONS:
This study gives further support to the hypothesis that positive assortative mating plays a role in ASD.
Evidence of Assortative Mating in Autism Spectrum … – NCBI
Two new theories of autism: hyper?systemising and … – NCBI
The hyper-systemizing, assortative mating theory of autism. pubmed
Assortative Mating in Autism Spectrum Disorder – NCBI
oh.. and its being found out for other psychological problems
the point here is that single nucleotide polymorphism… my specialty where i worked with Eric Schadt of illumina and pacbio… you do know him sergey? you then know where i worked… (for those not in the know, illumina makes the leading sequence machines and they put an army of them in our research college and hospital).. Shadt is an interesting billionaire… as i said, i have known several from different kinds of work…
Artfldgr…there have been numerous widely-circulated studies asserting that the hormonal cycle and birth control have a serious impact on female facial preference. The study cited the Scientific American was an attempt to validate or invalidate (as it turned out) those studies. Not sure why that’s ‘misrepresenting’, or who the ‘misrepresenting’ accusation is directed at.
You’re surely correct that male appearance matters less to women (on the average) than female appearance matters to men (fortunately for some of us), but it would be a rash man indeed who claimed that it never matters at all.