The impeachment inquiry: fooling enough of the people enough of the time
I wonder what the limits of propaganda are. That is, how many of the people can you fool how much of the time if your propaganda is relentless enough and complete enough? I think it depends on whether people perceive ways to access points of view that challenge the propaganda, and also whether people retain two things: common sense, and some notion of history.
So the impeachment push will be a test of all that for the American people. Do they retain common sense and some notion of history? And can alternative points of view to the left/MSM/Democrats united front reach them?
The original plan for the Whistlegate impeachment inquiry was (and still is, as far as I know) to delay a vote on impeachment until the Democrats’ investigation is complete or nearly complete, or perhaps never to bother with a vote at all. That way, the Democrats can fully air their accusations and demands, issue their letters/subpoenas, and bring forth their “whistleblower”/moles, accompanied all the while by a relentless drumbeat in the press about all of it in order to create more and more suspicion that where there’s all this smoke there must be a big fire that President Trump set.
Then they will likely vote to impeach him, unless the polls turn really bad for them. What would happen in the Senate will depend on which way the political winds are blowing. I am fairly sure there are senators (such as Romney, for example) who would probably vote to convict if a full trial and vote were to be held. But so far I don’t see that there would be nearly enough to convict, and so far McConnell has indicated that he will not necessarily hold a full trial but may deal with it in a perfunctory manner.
I don’t know how that will sit with the public, but that depends on how successful the inquiry is in convincing them that Trump has done something terrible enough.
The Democrats are doing this for several reasons, not just to appease their base. They do it because they can and because they have no other options. They have the tools in place. They have the docile Democratic members of the House who will do exactly what they are told. They have a Constitution that is silent about the exact procedures they must follow and only says they must have a vote at some point if they do impeach a president. The fact that they are conducting this “inquiry” in a way that is totally unprecedented, obviously an exercise of sheer power rather than fairness, and cuts off GOP participation at the House level, is not their concern because any sort of fairness is not their goal.
It is also obvious that prior to this move they were losing the battle, and that their candidates are all terrible. So they can’t rely on what would be the ordinary remedy for their woes, an election. And in fact, an election is coming up in a year. But they can’t wait, because they must use whatever tools they can to damage Trump so that he cannot win that election. That is the goal of their impeachment inquiry.
What kept previous Houses from doing this to previous presidents, whenever there was a House of a different party than the president? One check was a respect for tradition and for the voters’ devotion to fairness, as well as the fact that the press was not so entirely in the hands of one party (the one controlling the House), so that the propaganda would not necessarily be as effective.
There was also a certain amount of bipartisan patriotism and the bipartisan idea that such a process would disrupt what both parties and the bulk of the electorate held dear about the United States and what has distinguished it from banana-republic type countries. There were thought to be objectively negative consequences for a process of this kind, and that includes political consequences for the party behind it. But the left is now confident that it will not encounter those consequences if it plays its cards right.
But to succeed with the impeachment inquiry and to have it change enough people’s perceptions of Trump to make one of the Democrats seem to be a better alternative, voters would have to swallow a lot of things. They would have to deny their own gut feelings that Hunter Biden’s job and Joe Biden’s demand about firing the prosecutor are inherently suspicious and need investigation. They would have to trust Adam Schiff. They would have to ignore all media outlets on the right, and that includes online sources. They would have to think that presidents shouldn’t have privacy in their talks with leaders of foreign countries and that shadowy leakers can reveal whatever they want about those conversations, perhaps for political purposes. They would have to believe that whatever Trump said in that phone call rises to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor worth impeaching him for.
I think for now I’ll be optimistic and say that the US public is not yet quite that gullible. But I’m not at all sure that’s the case; I merely hope so.
I think a large segment of the population just doesn’t care. It’s a matter of get rid of Trump at any costs, because he will do irreparable damage to the county and it’s foundations. I had this conversation with a liberal friend of mine today, as a matter of fact. I asked her what alternative the Democrats were offering conservatives not to run screaming to Trump. Each of the current candidates of the Democratic party is a left wing crazy, and would damage the foundations of the country. She told me that’s exactly what she sees Trump doing. She also believes that Biden can win, and if he’s president he won’t do all that free stuff. They don’t care that the evidence doesn’t support the impeachment claims, and they are interested in facts. They don’t care that there’s been no crime.
Obviously, that is why the Left absolutely had to gain control over the Educational Establishment, so they could make sure that a large percentage–maybe a sufficient percentage–of today’s “audience” for the crap they (and the MSM) are throwing at them wouldn’t have the background, the education in American and World history, the knowledge of political philosophy/theory, and precedent, the past comparative models and lessons, or the analytical skills to recognize that it was crap.
Thus, Bernie and Warren can talk about “Medicare for All” and not be laughed off the stage, and the MSM can talk about this concept as if it were viable, because too few of their listeners can do enough of the math and analysis to realize that–even if everyone’s wealth were totally confiscated–this still wouldn’t amount to enough money to pay for their proposed $20-30 Trillion dollar Medicare for All.
That’s why the Left and Democrats feel safe in conducting their phony “star chamber” “Impeachment” in the way they have–they think that there are enough “graduates” in today’s audience who have never even heard of a “star chamber” and don’t t know what the term means, don’t recognize how far the Democrat’s procedures deviate from our basic values and elementary fairness, what has been done in the past, nor how violative they are of Congressional precedent, equal justice under the Law, parts of the Constitution, and Bill of Rights that they have never been taught very much–or perhaps, nothing–about (and what little they may have been taught has very likely been deliberately twisted, and stripped of its true meaning).
That is the audience they are apparently pretty confident that they are delivering their pitch to.
From the looks of Minneapolis and Dallas the past week, I would say it is not working. I am no fan of Michael Bennet but he seems to see the problem with Democrats this year,
‘Can Any of These People Beat Trump?’
Watching the Democratic debate with a serious candidate who wasn’t invited to the party and can hardly believe what’s unfolding before his eyes.
Obligatory Trump bashing but realistic.
I first became aware that Democrats were willing to pervert our constitutional election system to gain power in the aftermath of the 2000 presidential election. With the “resistance” and this bogus “impeachment” campaign, they make it explicit. They reject the election results, think they won’t win the next one, and are willing to do anything, including destroying the country as we know it, to regain power.
Hillary is now saying that Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein are Russian assets. I hope the Reps are going to let the Dems eat one another until the field is narrowed and Barr et al have some real meat to counter the spin. Then they can come out with a hard hitting focused attack.
So the impeachment push will be a test of all that for the American people. Do they retain common sense and some notion of history? And can alternative points of view to the left/MSM/Democrats united front reach them?
neo: If one is inclined to optimism, I would say American voters passed that test in 2016 and the test then was harder. We hadn’t seen Trump’s effectiveness as President. We hadn’t seen the Democrats’ non-stop, “Dial it up to eleven” hatred of and three years of fanatical, baseless impeachment accusations against Trump.
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And always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the light side of life
–Monty Python, “The Life of Brian”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep9Vzb6R_58
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One might wish for a mighty tidal wave to sweep the Democrats away, but the American response to Obama, Hillary and the Dem leadership has been robust enough to blunt and now reverse that hard left agenda.
She told me that’s exactly what she sees Trump doing.
You should have asked her for specs. Of course, having to hem and haw at you wouldn’t change her mind.
Mike K, I live in CO and really don’t see Bennet as a Moderate Middle of the Road Dem.
What kept previous Houses from doing this to previous presidents, whenever there was a House of a different party than the president?
There’s been a secular decline in the capacity of liberals to conceive of themselves as promoters of a viewpoint which competes with other viewpoints. Also, the House of Representatives in 1994 was culturally jarring because they’d held it for 58 of the previous 62 years. The House was theirs and some mountebank named Gingrich had stolen it from them. After 1994, opposition meant action as well as talk.
I wonder what the limits of propaganda are
They are unlimited…
and nearly impossible to remove or correct…
they seldom require everyone to believe
but there are some, which everyone did, and still does
and some new ones everyone believes that we believe or pretend to
A lie is a cooperative act
So to know the limits, it depends on what is wanted
and how many want it when the lie is doing its work.
There is another form it takes, which depends on replacing or erasing
where it inserts itself without anyone knowing
sometimes the latter is used to prime the former
sometimes the seed is planted and unfulfilled till its a mass desire
regardless of all that, what it is, its limits, how it works, etc..
depend completely on what the objective or what the method is..
When you cant prove intent, Disinformation hides under Misinformation… 😉
notice that propaganda lives in the emotional… not necessarily the logical..
could be why Madison Avenue can make women do anything, but not men..
not matter how many times they reinvent the metro sexual and try it…
HEY… now your getting into those names to read i keep pointing to as they come up over and over and over. and its not a mistake he is with the first of the progressive presidents.. now, who was it that took away black and women voted requiring a constitutional change to get them back? (otherwise the torture and mutilation of hayes tilden would have been for nothing)
by the way… more than the people in the light.. its the people in the dark whose names we dont know and whose children take other names like the old money… for instance.. Vanderbuilts… big old name… now who is on TV and a Vanderbuilt by another name completely?
if your talking about the news, cnn, teachers, feminists and all that..
then your talking Agitprop
is political propaganda, especially the communist propaganda used in Soviet Russia, that is spread to the general public through popular media such as literature, plays, pamphlets, films, and other art forms with an explicitly political message
this is why these new truths we follow about family, and home, and so on… through feminism are really agitprop promoting the soviet way to new soviet man and woman… fun, isnt it? never thought you would get it…
the pope helped the nazis was from a play.. agitprop
cigarettes are liberating… feminists needed money (sold out to tobacco and alcohol)
Alcohol was sexually liberating and made you popular with all the boys
i cant post ads to show you
men and women are equal
a man can be a woman if he just says so
and on and on
how much agitprop we gonna swallow whole till we choke
and are so dysfunctional we fall apart and beg to bet taken over (and shown the way)?
helpless people really really give things power.. not so much independent people
but dont worry, this started way before bernays..
The Technique of a Coup d’Etat
And he did it HERE…
so when you ask how far..
well. as far as the revolution need to go..
Willi is also the one that gave the superiority feeling
the hate you feel from the left is not hate…
its contempt a much more dangerous emotion
to remove the status quo, hurt innocents in the streets like antifa, to make ovens
HATE is not enough… you need contempt..
and since lenin was discussing social democrats in 1880s… it was a long involvement..
FWIW I attended a small (approximately 250 people) Tulsi Gabbard event last evening, and came away thinking she could defeat djt in the general election. She has a lot of energy, fast on her feet, well spoken, a subtle charisma, not far left, and attractive. She answers questions without hesitation and without prevarication.
I don’t agree with a majority of her positions, but she would have more than a good chance to win an electoral victory 11/3/20. Fortunately, the dnc is stuck on far left stupid.
Gabbard’s twitter response to Clinton’s lunacy is worth a gander (it’s a piece of work):
Art Deco: Exactly! I’m not going to change her mind. Trump is EVIL.
Lynn Hargrove: I live in CO too (Northglenn). I agree that Bennett is far from moderate, but he’s certainly more sane than the others in the race. (Or at least able to sound like it.)
And i mean it when its unlimited if you know history enough
so he made it ok and not something to fight against…
the Nazis didnt start the Riechstag fire.. but you wont find anyone that knows that.
go try.. cause EVERYONE knows the nazis did it to seize power in some grand plan
how far? far enough to rewrite human history in your time
which do you think you know
[as i said in another post.. hard to learn the truth over one of these things then come back and keep talking as if the truth was still unlearned… that makes one complicit, so its hard]
you been bathing in this crap since your grandparents..
Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country – Bernays
Perhaps the first major theoretician of this was Sigmund Freud’s nephew, Edward Bernays, whose book “Propaganda” in 1928 said that it was entirely natural and right for governments to organise public opinion for political purposes.
you can say he wrote the book on propaganda… ouch.. 🙂
“We are governed, our minds are moulded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. … In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons … who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.” Bernays
here is another waste of time reading list (i even posted free versions once)
Gustave Le Bon’s work The Psychology of Crowds (1895)
Elias Canetti’s Crowds and Power (Masse und Macht) (1980)
Serge Tchakhotine’s Le viol des foules par la propagande politique (1939)
“Engineering consent” in 1955 – Bernays
“Manufacturing consent” in 1988 – Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky
Curzio Malaparte’s Technique of a coup d’état – 1931
[love the above, it reduces it all to a technique, a process. which i said it was]
there is so much more
the Psychological Strategy Board
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Strategy_Board
The Psychological Strategy Board (PSB) was a committee of the United States executive formed to coordinate and plan for psychological operations. It was formed on April 4, 1951, during the Truman administration. The board was composed of the Under Secretary of State, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, and the Director of Central Intelligence, or their designated representatives. The board’s first director was Gordon Gray, later National Security Advisor during the Eisenhower administration.
The PSB defined psychological warfare as any nonmilitary action which influenced public opinion or foreign policy interest. This, therefore, includes, but is not limited to: trade and economic aid, cultural and educational exchange, threats to use force and diplomacy
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read Tchakotine…He was one of the first thinkers to describe the effect of propaganda on the psychology of masses and warned against the techniques used by the Nazi Party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Chakhotin
he is the one that taught the left that they have to use the same terms, the same words, catch phrases… like “womens choice” or how they dont say illegal aliens… or any other things…
In Germany in 1932, putting his theories of political propaganda into practice, he campaigned with the Iron Front (Eiserne Front) against the National Socialists, alongside the German Social Democrat, Carlo Mierendorff. Chakhotin designed the Three Arrows, the symbol of the Iron Front.
The Iron Front was formed on 16 December 1931 in the Weimar Republic by the Social Democratic Party (SPD) / Its logo, the Antifascist Circle (three-lined-arrows, pointing southwest/to the lower left inside a circle) was designed by Sergei Tschachotin, former assistant to the physiologist Ivan Pavlov in 1931.
ah.. i give up… there is a whole library section or more on this 🙂
who would read this history anyway… so much stuff we dont remember
I am reminded of an old saying about, in democracy, the people get the government they deserve.
My wife and I fled Venezuela because it became untenable. If the American people are so foolish, we are perfectly capable of moving somewhere else, although the list of decent places in the world is shrinking.
“It is also obvious that prior to this move they were losing the battle, and that their candidates are all terrible. So they can’t rely on what would be the ordinary remedy for their woes, an election. And in fact, an election is coming up in a year. But they can’t wait, because they must use whatever tools they can to damage Trump so that he cannot win that election. That is the goal of their impeachment inquiry.” — Neo
I’m not trying to nitpick here, I agree with the general thrust. I just think that the fine points are interesting.
Their candidates are all terrible …
Their candidates are, for the most part, willing to be whatever the democrat electorate wants them to be. You know, run to the left for the primaries, then run to the center. So, to some extent, the leftward half (one third?) of our nation has become terrible.
They can’t wait …
Sure they can wait, if they could be assured of winning that next election. A 50/50 chance won’t do. In keeping with that zealousness they need to,
… damage Trump so that he cannot win.
Yes, exactly.
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expat on October 18, 2019 at 5:55 pm said:
Hillary is now saying that Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein are Russian assets.
Yeah I saw that. It’s the vast Russki-wing conspiracy! Hillary and the John Birch Society agree.
Is it just me, or does the surreal nature of this campaign season feel like it’s headed towards a big melt-down and realignment? How absurd can things get?
Roy Nathanson beat me to it while I was typing. These terrible candidates are trying to give a large group of people the things they want. Sigh.
Hitler’s Pope and 9 Other Anti-Catholic Myths Disproven By History
https://pjmedia.com/faith/2016/05/23/hitlers-pope-and-9-other-anti-catholic-myths-disproven-by-history/
Pope Pius XII, who has been attacked as “Hitler’s Pope,” actually hid Jews from the Nazis during World War II. Chaim Weizmann, who would become the first president of Israel, praised Pius XII, saying, “The Holy See is lending its powerful help wherever it can, to mitigate the fate of my persecuted co-religionists.” The Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide estimated that Pius XII was instrumental in saving “at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands.”
Nevertheless, leftists pushed the myth that Pope Pius XII actually served the Führer. A left-wing German playwright started it in the 1960s, and in 1999 and 2001, books came out in America to push the focus on Catholic anti-Semitism.
TommyJay
Roy Nathanson beat me to it while I was typing. These terrible candidates are trying to give a large group of people the things they want.
Artfldgr on October 18, 2019 at 6:37 pm said: A lie is a cooperative act
“A lie has no power whatsoever by its mere utterance,” says Pamela Meyer. “Its power emerges when someone else agrees to believe the lie.” Pamela Meyer
Artfldgr,
Your points are amazing. I wish I had half your knowledge of the background.
Here is my completely unauthoritative reference for your last point reiterated:
From the movie Sin City (2005)
Senator Roark (Powers Boothe) addresses a cop (Bruce Willis) in a hospital bed recovering from multiple gunshot wounds.
Senator Roark: Power don’t come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big, and gettin’ the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain’t true, you’ve got e’m by the balls.
____
I agree that the most powerful angle to our current (or most) propaganda is the agitation. I also think I see a lesser but still powerful angle with pocketbook issues and the attainment of political power. Many people willingly participate in the lies because they rationally see how it tangibly benefits them.
______
I had heard of most of your points about the Spanish Inquisition. I had not heard about the Nazis not setting the fire at the Reichstag. I’ll bite. Who set the fire?
“They do it because they can and because they have no other options. ”
This sums up the Democratic approach succinctly…
The House leadership knows their presidential candidates are weak, and it’ll be a tough election in 2020. In the last week alone, Michael Bloomberg and Hillary Clinton have both made noises of entering the primaries which will make things interesting.
If the House gives in to madness and votes to impeach, the Senate should requite the left’s desire in fullest measure.
Examination of the evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors,its validity, methods used to obtain it, implications of those methods; crimes committed from the moment the president was declared winner by networks in 2016 right up to the present.
Rip it wide open; go down every side street and alley. Document and refer for prosecution the implicit and explicit criminal conspiracies of the deep state including the improper refusal to prosecute Hillary, the meeting between the AG and spouse of a target of an investigation. Extirpate them branch and root.
Hitler’s Pope and 9 Other Anti-Catholic Myths Disproven By History
Artfldgr: It’s not simple.
Pope Pius XII donated money to Hitler before Pius was pope, and as pope he prayed for a Nazi victory at Stalingrad. The RCC did help Jews to escape during the war, and afterwards helped run the ratlines for Nazis to escape to South America. The Catholic Church has many mansions.
Even as a leftist I didn’t blame Pius for siding with the Nazis to that extent. The horrific anti-clerical slaughters during the Spanish Civil War amply demonstrated that Communism was a blood enemy to the Catholic Church. Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend; sometimes that enemy is still my enemy.
See “The Godmother: Madre Pascalina, A Feminine Tour de Force”
https://www.amazon.com/Godmother-Madre-Pascalina-Feminine-Force/dp/1546392823/ref=sr_1_1
Pascalina was Pius XII’s personal secretary and confidante.
I’ve been shocked by the election of Pope Francis who is quite leftist.
After Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, I figured the Church would remain steadfastly conservative for another few decades anyway.
“I think for now I’ll be optimistic and say that the US public is not yet quite that gullible. But I’m not at all sure that’s the case; I merely hope so.”
Keep hoping, Neo. Who knows? Maybe there is Santa Claus, an Easter Bunny, a Tooth Fairy, and the American public possesses an innate common sense that transcends the education establishment and the media.
Sadly, Herr Obergruppenführer Schiff has many allies in his semi-secret campaign against the elected President. As we know, a lie told brazenly and consistently will often become perceived as truth; and Schiff lies brazenly and consistently. (He has immunity.)
Pascalina was Pius XII’s personal secretary and confidante..
Somethings amiss here… wouldn’t you say?
Wiki mentions the book and nothing as to what your saying..
have you ever read the play? and derivatives? just curious..
pope he prayed for a Nazi victory at Stalingrad…
funny thing about being pope… or president..
everything you do officially is recorded..
so would not this be but something easy to read?
the way you say it (your an atheist, right?), is like.. oh lord…
please let the evil hitler win etc..
the above is the prayer… and the date that stalingrad fell…
i didnt know you were a follower of Alexandrina Maria da Costa, from Balazar, a Portuguese mystic…
see the snip? turns out prayer and the whole maria thing was known.. ‘
and
So put in its proper context now what is it? and what did YOU do? go and check and read to find out
i bet you didnt…
so you have a one line prayer that does call for gods help
[not much different than the prayor patton requested… and many others do]
you have two events that happen in the period of that prayer
and a third that a small group believes
so no… he did not pray for NAZIS at all…
but i wonder how many people will believe your renewal of the thing?
its going to bet trivial poking the rest.
again… the way you state it.. sounds like they put it together just to smuggle nazis out.
understand that europe was destroyed.. i guess you would hate latvians, who ended up conscripted
into the waffen SS against the communists? but they have special dispensation, and served as guards at neuremburg…
the kind of thing you accept is this:
According to Phayer, Pius XII “preferred to see fascist war criminals on board ships sailing to the New World rather than seeing them rotting in POW camps in zonal Germany”
but that is someone telling you and me what another person they dont know is thinking… also, do we know phayers politics? you love Zinn and his “peoples” history of the united states… has lots of this kind of opinion as fact insertions.
he has made a career with that stuff… and Bishop Alois Hudal is more responsible…
the phayer point is the only point i could find that blames pius that way…
There are tons of names, lots of records, and such you can read and go through
but your not going to find anything other than assuming something that was exploited wasn’t..
the problem here is that you had this cadre of men in charge of this in the vatican..
when they tell the writing of it, they do not point out the others who were not
so it makes it seem as if the vatican was sanctioning the nazis escape
no
what the vatican was doing was helping refugees, and the nazis and these priests abused that
or will you also claim that raping young boys by priests is also part of the vatican plan or something the priest does that he doesnt ask the vaticans permission to do first?
Graham pointed out that Draganovi?, in running his ‘ratline,’ was not acting on behalf of the Vatican: “Just because he’s a priest doesn’t mean he represents the Vatican. It was his own operation.”
so the US used the channels too.. (the documents are declassified)
I found evidence, moreover, that from an early stage in his career Pacelli betrayed an undeniable antipathy toward the Jews, and that his diplomacy in Germany in the 1930s had resulted in the betrayal of Catholic political associations that might have challenged Hitler’s regime and thwarted the Final Solution. Eugenio Pacelli was no monster; – Cornwell
all that is, is the same thing that the rest of the left is doing to all kinds of stuff in the past.. he is for hitler cause he didnt act.. and antipathy for jews in that period wasnt half as bad as FDR sending them back… was it? that wasnt antipathy.. this above is fromt he famous hitlers pope book.
Thomas jefferson had slaves.. is a good example of the equivalent…
using a position in current or future politics, to judge actions in the past ignoring context and awareness
thats all i have time for..
and that is how propaganda works..
it works so well because its self sustaining..
but if one reads a lot more of the dry details one will find that in each of these cases, its something less sinister but twisted to be something it wasnt…
its a super moral superiority where everything in history that isnt up to some standard becomes something else
the moral superiority is important as it makes sure the hate becomes contempt.
“Liberalism is not beneficial for Russians, neither in a conservative package, nor in a social one. The societal caste model and the ability of some to survive at the expense of others do not coincide with what is written in the Gospel. We need a value-based traditionalism, which corresponds to our identity,” Shchipkov said at a meeting of the World Russian People’s Council in Moscow on Friday.
“Ideologically, the liberals in opposition and liberals in regional government represent one whole. A politician who says, ‘it’s time to stop building churches,’ does not realize that in Russia this sounds as absurd as ‘time to stop issuing pensions’ or ‘time to stop giving birth to children,” Shchipkov said.
Trump did a terrible thing all right! He defeated their sainted Hillary, a terrible nominee if there ever was one. Therefore, HE MUST PAY!
“LYNN HARGROVE on October 18, 2019 at 6:26 pm said:
Mike K, I live in CO and really don’t see Bennet as a Moderate Middle of the Road Dem.”
Second that from a fellow Coloradan.
” now who is on TV and a Vanderbuilt by another name completely?”
Anderson Cooper.
Peggy Noonan has an article titled: “The Impeachment Needle May Soon Move” in the Wall Street Journal.
She is a reliable example of a somewhat normal person caught inside the Blue Bubble.
As I read this a piece of Psalm 146:9 came to thought: ” the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.”
The Democrats are handing the Republicans an amazing opportunity, a captive impeachment audience to show a bunch of Democrats prosecuting with half truths that will come across as delusional.
It will obviously not get the votes in the Senate and the Democrats will run on: “Give us the Senate so we can impeach him again if he wins.”
Trump will run on: “Let him govern” and obliterate the Democrats in 2020, taking both houses.
How is this obvious? Almost every poll before the impeachment inquiry showed something like this mid August one from Fox News:
Dems vs Trump
Biden 50% – 38%
Sanders 48% – 39%
Warren 46% – 39%
Harris 45% – 39%
Maybe this explains why Trump is reaching out to foreign countries for help again.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/457645-fox-news-poll-shows-trump-losing-to-biden-warren-sanders-and-harris
Maybe good news, the State Dept is looking into Hillary’s illegal emails:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/state-department-finds-violations-by-38-people-in-clinton-emails-review
38 people.
Who should at least be fired, and probably prosecuted.
I remain cautiously hopeful about indictments of the criminal Dem deep staters. Trump doesn’t seem afraid of impeachment, altho innocence is not enough of a defense.
Trump will run on: “Let him govern” and obliterate the Democrats in 2020, taking both houses.
Maybe. Trump has trouble closing the deal with nonaligned voters, who are mostly low-information and tend to react negatively to controversy, blaming Republicans per cues from the media. (See the umpteen ‘government shutdown’ controversies).
Tom Grey–Just how many times have we been told that this or that Federal Department or Agency–many of whose employees, you can be pretty sure, are opposed to President Trump and to his Agenda–has “found some wrongdoing,” only to see that such “wrongdoers” are just never really punished, perhaps given a slap on the wrist–maybe a reassignment or two, or a resignation, even one reported “indictment.”
Slow does not begin to describe the glacial pace of these inquiries into the coup, its elements, and it’s actors.
The only “action” I’ve seen is I’ve seen is the withholding of and lots of redactions to what are reported to be key documents, and many postponements of the production of what we have been told–time and time again–are supposed to be blockbuster reports.
But, as for actual trials–much less any convictions and real punishment, I’ve seen not a one and, frankly, ultimately I don’t really expect any.
Barr and Durham may be “on the case,” but I suspect that they are embedded in a DOJ, many of whose members will do everything they can to limit their power and effectiveness, as will many of the employees in all the other Federal Departments and Agencies.
Perhaps I am selling the employees in these Departments and Agencies short but,
up until now, I have seen no great zeal in these Departments and Agencies to ferret out, and to actually punish coup members, and all who have made this coup attempt possible.
Don’t agree with the media, as you do here, that Trump asked to have Biden examined. Read the transcript. He asked to have the Crowdstrike servers examined as part of the investigation into what happened during 2016. Dems don’t want that exposed.
The Federalist: GOP Members Of Intel Committee Lambast Adam Schiff For Hiding Documents
If there’s ever been a fraud as thorough as Adam Schiff in an analogous position in Congress, I don’t know who it was. In 1975, Gerald Ford appeared before the House Judiciary Committee to answer questions about his activities in the waning days of the Nixon Administration. Per his press secretary Ron Nessen, courtesy was breached by only one committee member: Elizabeth Holtzman. Per Nessen, Holtzman was rude and accusatory (and put in her place by Ford), but not scamming or dishonest. (She’s also a fanatic, but that’s a different problem).
Maybe this explains why Trump is reaching out to foreign countries for help again.
What explains why you tell brazen lies? (Other than the swag you’re getting from Correct-the-Record).
I have a personal theory that humans can never be content for very long. Our nature is to always be nostalgic for a previous Golden Age, or longing, planning, and scheming for the next Golden Age. No matter how well a current political system or organization is working by objective standards, there will always be discontent. And there will always be unscrupulous politicians or leaders willing to fan the flames and take advantage of that discontent.
This aspect of human nature assures that human society never becomes moribund and continues to experiment with and perfect its social organizations even though that often means flirting with disaster. It also assures that humans will always be engaged in some level of conflict with each other, up to and including war.
In biology, cooperation and competition are opposite sides of the same coin. This assures that the species continues to evolve and improve, even without outside competition. Humans, having fought and clawed their way to the top of the food chain, have no natural enemies, other than ourselves.
By objective standards, we humans on average have better lives today than ever before. We live longer and healthier lives and have more freedoms (on average). Our understanding of the universe and the scientific principles it operates by continue to improve along with our mastery of the world. And yet, we will go ahead and destroy it all, just so we can rebuild it all again…
Parker!
Tulsi looks like a movie star but she’s not that great in person.
Dick Illyes: Interesting Peggy Noonan piece. I read her when I can because she’s a damn good writer. Here’s a paywall work-around:
http://archive.is/TxXDA
Noonan starts out with the usual Beltway pearl-clutching about how uncouth, terrible and self-defeating Trump’s tweets are. Ho-hum. I’m not sure if she believes that stuff, wants to appear balanced, or goes through the motions for her Beltway cred.
But she ends, as a writer should, hitting her strong points the hardest:
_________________________________________
More important [in the impeachment] will be a text or subtext of serious and consistent foreign-policy malfeasance that the public comes to believe is an actual threat to national security. Something they experience as alarming.
It cannot be merely that the president holds different views and proceeds in different ways than the elites of both parties. It can’t look like “the blob” fighting back—fancy-pants establishment types, whose feathers have been ruffled by a muddy-booted Jacksonian, getting their revenge. It can’t look like the Deep State striking back at a president who threatened their corrupt ways.
It will have to be serious and sincere professionals who testify believably that the administration is corrupt and its corruption has harmed the country. The witnesses will have to seem motivated by a sense of duty to institutions and protectiveness toward their country.
And the hearings had better start to come across as an honest, good-faith effort in which Republican members of Congress are treated squarely and in line with previous protocols and traditions.
With all that the needle moves. Without it, it does not.
_______________________________________________
I don’t know if Noonan has thought this through, but for those who have attended to this business seriously and honestly, I would say Noonan’s necessary conditions have not and will not be met.
The needle will not move.
I have a personal theory that humans can never be content for very long.
Roy Nathanson: True. That’s not how the human brain is wired, as brain science tells us. Google dopamine and novelty-seeking. Makes sense in terms of evolution.
I had an apropos experience recently. For several months my favorite treat has been a P.F. Chang’s Kung-Pao Dragon Roll. It was ambrosia! I couldn’t imagine anything better to eat short of filet mignon from a premium steak house.
But in the past month (I order one take-out every week or two) it became less tasty. Now I’ll eat one but it’s become a bit of a chore to get through it. I’ve decided to stop, let it rest for a couple months and see if some of its tastiness returns.
It’s a trivial example, but still on point. Life will not let you stay content doing the same thing forever.
Huxley, thanks for work around link to Noonan. Who’s a hater of Trump’s style, at least. And thinks his Erdogan letter was a disaster, like many elites (Romney, Graham; Rod Dreher, Christian anti-PC guy planning to hold nose & vote Trump yet really doesn’t like the style).
Somehow, I’ve been changing to like Trump’s simplistic, easy-to-understand style. Not threats of war, but economic sanctions — like what he’s doing to China.
And as China kills a few in Hong Kong, and the NBA is boot-licking the Chi-coms, the usual Human Rights Trump haters have been complaining about “something”, now the Kurds.
The Trump-haters might be fooling enough of the people enough to win — Dems DID win the House in 2018. But I think it more likely that Trump wins, and the Dems get more crazy as that becomes more clear, with the extra Dem craziness making Trump more likely to get re-elected AND more likely for Reps to win back the House.
Then I’d expect to see more indictments (the first?) for deep state crimes.
Snow — we have heard and heard and heard about the wrongdoing by the deep state, and no indictments. Mueller’s investigation did, at least, involve some indictments, tho not really about Trump collusion.
I’ve been tired of waiting since Mueller’s report.
But I keep hoping.
That is, how many of the people can you fool how much of the time if your propaganda is relentless enough and complete enough?
That depends on how many public comments you remove in a community trying to talk about a subject.
Eventually you can get people to “self censor”, the way any normal person does in a totalitarian society.
You already know about this because your blog removes comments about certain topics you disagree with. Whether you are doing it by hand or someone else is doing it, ends up being the same moral act. Facebook and other sites like the knitters, did it to conservatives. It’s a kind of harassment that ideology does not give apologies for.
Everyone always has ideological and prejudicial self ratonalizations about what they are doing is correct. You ascribe disagereement and lack of interest to be equivalent to spam and pron. The Left ascribes misinformation to conservative positions and downvotes or disappears them. You can still find them, which is perhaps better than can be said for here and conservative sites. But the ultimate goal is to exile different opinions from the Bubble Fortress, which eventually happens as people self censor or just get tired of the endless harassment.
Tom Grey on October 19, 2019 at 9:06 pm said:
Trum is so strong that if he was President, HRC would be in jail if such a strong President was President.
Comey was at fault in 2016… but Trum was not at fault for keeping Comey in 2017?
Back on another post, someone commented that the dgr’s comments were like e e cummings’ poems — this one actually does reach a poetic flow!
Artfldgr on October 18, 2019 at 6:37 pm said: