Caroline Glick on Trump and the Kurds
It’s complicated, and to even begin to understand it you have to go back in time. But most of us here probably remember this:
In 2014 Obama was negotiating his nuclear deal with Iran…
Given its goal of embracing Iran, the Obama administration had no interest in harming Assad, Iran’s Syrian factotum. It had no interest in blocking Iran’s ally Russia from using the war in Syria as a means to reassert Moscow’s power in the Middle East…
Obama’s decided to work with the Kurdish-YPG militia in northern Syria because it was the only significant armed force outside the Iranian axis that enjoyed congenial relations with both Assad and Iran.
Obama deployed around a thousand forces to Syria. Their limited numbers and radically constrained mandate made it impossible for the Americans to have a major effect on events in the country. They weren’t allowed to act against Assad or Iran. They were tasked solely with fighting ISIS. Obama instituted draconian rules of engagement that made achieving even that limited goal all but impossible.
During his tenure as Trump’s national security advisor John Bolton hoped to revise the US mandate to enable US forces to be used against Iran in Syria. Bolton’s plan was strategically sound. Trump rejected it largely because it was a recipe for widening US involvement in Syria far beyond what the American public – and Trump himself — are willing to countenance.
In other words, the claim that the US has major influence in Syria is wrong. It does not have such influence and is unwilling to pay the price of developing such influence.
If the Iraq war during the George W. Bush administration taught us anything, it was that the US is unwilling to pay the large price of the sort of effort and sacrifice (both monetary and human) required to intervene successfully in that area of the world, except in a relatively superficial and temporary way. You can argue the merits of that, pro and con, but that’s what the war revealed about the American public and about both sides of the political coin. And talk is easy when it’s your opponent advocating a course of intervention or of withdrawal, and most people are inconsistent depending on who’s doing the advocating.
The war in Iraq began before I started blogging, and at the time the war began I was wary about it but felt it was necessary based on what seemed like the best intelligence of the time. But once we were in, I expected us to have a greater commitment to it, and over time I realized that the requisite commitment was simply not there. And yet, when Obama completely withdrew, it seemed tragic to me because most of the hard work had been done, the country was relatively stable, and only a small force would have been required to remain to keep it so.
That was not to happen.
I happened to catch a couple of minutes of Trump’s speech last night in Minneapolis, and I heard him sau something that ties into this [emphasis mine]:
But from now on, we want to fight where it is to the benefit of the United States of America, not to the benefit of other countries. And we will only fight to win. We’re only going to fight to win. We don’t fight to win. We don’t fight to win. The Turks have been fighting with the Kurds for two centuries…
That’s the pure Jacksonian approach to war:
When other countries are not threatening the U.S., Jacksonians prefer a course of “live and let live.” They believe in honoring alliance commitments but are not looking for opportunities for military interventions overseas and do not favor grandiose plans for nation-building and global transformation.
In war, the fiery patriotism of Jacksonians has been America’s secret weapon…
When war does come, Jacksonians believe in victory at any and all costs. Jacksonian opinion has never regretted the atomic attacks against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In a war of self-defense, Jacksonian opinion recognizes no limits on the proper use of force by the U.S.
Social scientists and urban intellectuals have been predicting the death of Jacksonian America since the turn of the 20th century. Urbanization and immigration were the forces that observers like Woodrow Wilson and Walter Lippmann hoped would transform American popular culture into something less antagonistic to the rule of technocratic intellectuals ensconced in a powerful federal bureaucracy. This did not work out as planned.
Yet.
Let’s go back to Glick:
Despite the compelling, ever growing body of evidence that the time has come to reassess US-Turkish ties, the Pentagon refuses to engage the issue. The Pentagon has rejected the suggestion that the US remove its nuclear weapons from Incirlik air base in Turkey or diminish Incirlik’s centrality to US air operations in Central Asia and the Middle East. The same is true of US dependence on Turkish naval bases.
Given the Pentagon’s position, there is no chance that US would consider entering an armed conflict with Turkey on behalf of the Kurds.
The Kurds are a tragic people…
The Kurds in Iraq are far more capable of defending themselves than the Kurds of Syria. Taking on the defense of Syria’s Kurds would commit the US to an open-ended presence in Syria and justify Turkish antagonism. America’s interests would not be advanced. They would be harmed, particularly in light of the YPG’s selling trait for Obama – its warm ties to Assad and Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps.
The hard truth is that the fifty US soldiers along the Syrian-Turkish border were a fake trip wire. Neither Trump nor the US military had any intention of sacrificing US forces to either block a Turkish invasion of Syria or foment deeper US involvement in the event of a Turkish invasion.
Apparently in the course of his phone call with Trump on Sunday, Erdogan called Trump’s bluff. Trump’s announcement following the call made clear that the US would not sacrifice its soldiers to stop Erdogan’s planned invasion of the border zone.
But Trump also made clear that the US did not support the Turkish move. In subsequent statements, Trump repeatedly pledged to destroy the Turkish economy if Turkey commits atrocities against the Kurds.
Much much more at the link.
One of the problems with the “end of history” thinking that consumed our elite after the end of the Cold War is that it encouraged a managerial approach to all issues. After all, if we’ve answered all the big questions and resolved all the big issues and the world as it is is pretty much as it should and is meant to be, you don’t really want to change ANYTHING. Even the bad things. The assumption becomes that you just need to manage the situation until it…well, somehow gets resolved by magic.
This upside is that this provides permanent employment to our managerial class. The downside is that problems are left to fester for not just years but generations and when someone comes along and tries to change a policy that hasn’t been working, he becomes a threat to the whole bloody system.
Mike
You want war?
OK. Sherman, Patton. Hathcock, Enola Gay
” But once we were in, I expected us to have a greater commitment to it, and over time I realized that the requisite commitment was simply not there. And yet, when Obama completely withdrew, it seemed tragic to me because most of the hard work had been done, the country was relatively stable, and only a small force would have been required to remain to keep it so.”
Exactly. I was hoping for the use of the Germany/Japan model where the US remains, establishes a permanent presence, and gives that country time to establish stability. I would think a minimum of 10 years, or longer. The other benefit is that now the US would have had a forward operating base within the ME. Consider how different things might be with an equivalent of Yokota or Ramstein bases existing in Iraq. Obama ruined that one.
Despite the compelling, ever growing body of evidence that the time has come to reassess US-Turkish ties, the Pentagon refuses to engage the issue.
Those who have read Papadopoulis’ book will note that Mifsud and Downer and the other mysterious characters that accosted him were much more interested in Turkey than Russia. They were all hostile to his idea of a pipeline from Israel to Greece that avoided Turkey. His field was energy policy and that seems to stir up much of the anger at him.
Cato-like (Carthago etc.), Caroline gets off her parting shot:
Though she may be correct I suspect she may nevertheless find herself unheard. Looks as though Pres. Trump has a different idea.
The USA won its last war in 1945.
Truman cowered under the China threat to chronic consequences in the Korean non-declared war.
Bush I was a failure. Free Kuwait and stop? BFD.
Clinton was too busy with Monica and his cigar.
Bush II took the right actions in both Iraq and Afghanistan, but failed the peace in Iraq, when Iraq should have been divided into three countries. No one has been able to deal with the Afghanis due to Pakistani interference. Pakistan is an alleged ally of the US! As is Turkey!!
Obama of course was an anti-American corruptocrat.
We should pull out of Incirlik? Turkey would just turn that strategic air base over to Russia, unless we bomb the hell out of the place as we leave.
Let’s just damn well face it: Turkey, Russia, and Iran, with cooperation from the Pakis, is the new axis of evil. Look at what Erdogan told the Europeans the other day: I’ll loose 3.6 million ‘refugees’ aka rapists and looters on Europeans if they irritate me!
“Obama deployed around a thousand forces to Syria.” Does she mean troops?
We should pull out of Incirlik? Turkey would just turn that strategic air base over to Russia, unless we bomb the hell out of the place as we leave.
To be “strategic” there needs to be some strategy in play. Russia’s “strategy” is to waste money in the Middle East in order to gain some “influence”. The USSR played that game too, until its strategy bankrupted it. What long term gain does Russia get by pouring money into Syria. It will have an “ally” that no-one else likes or trusts, in an area where nothing is stable for long anyway.
Russia simply does not have the money to play the superpower game for long. It would be like Indonesia trying — they have about the same size economy. So worrying about Russia extending its reach is really worrying about nothing. Every time it extends itself it makes it come closer to the inevitable financial crunch.
Not to be forgotten, is that being friends with Russia is quite a difficult thing to maintain. They’re much more capable of generating enemies.
I favor the Jacksonian approach. Go all in or stay home. I favored crushing Saddam’s regime but not the aftermath. With Japan and Germany we demanded unconditional surrender, and stuck around to dictate what form of government and society they would be allowed.
Reforming Iraq is impossible because of the obvious: Islam.
An opinion with a very different viewpoint and some history of the Kurds who don’t seem to be sterling fellows, with their own serious history of oppression and ethnic cleansing.
https://www.andrewbostom.org/2019/10/dont-romanticize-the-kurds-longstanding-jihadist-butchery-pkk-marxist-terrorism-evolved-to-fight-ataturks-ethno-racist-turkey-created-sharia-based-iraqi-kurdistan/
The Iraq War failed because America had no plan. There was no strategy, no long view. What can you say about a military operation that puts nasty, stupid incompetents, with cell phones, in charge of prisoners (Abu Ghraib)?
Our intelligence was totally faulty. Remember the “slam dunk?” The clown who said that got a medal! Saddam has WMD! Ah, no he didn’t.
Turns out the communications our utterly incompetent CIA was listening to, or was it the equally noxious NSA, were nothing more than Saddam blowing hot air. He wasn’t building bombs. He was building palaces.
Trump is right to get out of Syria. Most of these “countries” are post WWII made up places courtesy of the Allied victors. The vast lot of people are tribal (cf. Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya). Democracy will never work there.
Bush was and remains a fool. The Iraq War was the biggest foreign policy miscue in our lifetimes.
I’m with CaptDMO. You win wars when you fight to win. America has been losing since Viet Nam and we’ve been losing because we’ve made community outreach and a concern about enemy casualties (cf James Earl Carter & the helicopter rescue of the Iranian hostages) our top priority.
America has been at war, one way or another, since 1941.
We need to stop.
“Social scientists and urban intellectuals have been predicting the death of Jacksonian America since the turn of the 20th century.”
Proof positive of how little understanding of human nature they possess.
“Trump also made clear that the US did not support the Turkish move. In subsequent statements, Trump repeatedly pledged to destroy the Turkish economy if Turkey commits atrocities against the Kurds.”
Bluster because “The Pentagon has rejected the suggestion that the US remove its nuclear weapons from Incirlik air base in Turkey or diminish Incirlik’s centrality to US air operations in Central Asia and the Middle East. The same is true of US dependence on Turkish naval bases.”
Cicero,
“Let’s just damn well face it: Turkey, Russia, and Iran, with cooperation from the Pakis, is the new axis of evil.
You left out China and N. Korea. Simplify; Islam and Marxist regimes + Russian mafia… aka Putin & his supporters.
“Russia’s “strategy” is to waste money in the Middle East in order to gain some “influence”. The USSR played that game too, until its strategy bankrupted it.” Chester Draws
It’s not ‘influence’ Putin seeks but a warm water port. I’m doubtful that Putin holds any illusions about Islam. Nor did its involvement in the ME bankrupt the USSR. The USSR’s attempt to match Reagan’s military build up + inability to compete with our technological superiority did that… and the ChiComs grasped that lesson.
parker,
I too favor the Jacksonian approach. Tragically, half of America favors Chamberlain’s approach. Due to basic human nature; the flight or fight reaction to danger.
Re: the success of our post WWII efforts; Merkel’s Germany would argue that ultimately it was a failure. So we’re batting .500 with it.
titan28,
The Iraq War failed because America is deeply divided between the Jacksonians and the Chamberlains. The Bush administration did have a strategy. It failed because it’s central premise was faulty; that premise posited that a “universal human aspiration for self-determination” superseded cultural and religious tenets.
With the exception of Obama… every major democrat is on record supporting the belief that Saddam was pursuing WMD prior to Bush I’s Iraq war. Post the first Iraq war, the sanctions prevented Saddam from continuing that pursuit but had the sanctions been dropped, which they would have been had not 9/11 happened, Saddam would have renewed his pursuit.
The collapse of the USSR and “the end of history” led to the CIA abandoning fielding agents to gather intelligence. It greatly expanded its analysts, who rely on third party accounts. The NSA has never been intended to be anything other than analyzing communications.
“Bush was and remains a fool.”
In fairness, Bush was misled as to Islam’s inherent nature and his religious premises led him prey to an unrealistic assessment of human nature. The Neocon assertion that democracy could be implanted in the ME is a similar failure to grasp the nature of Islamic societies. I do criticize his failure to acknowledge his mistakes.
My recently passed father always said that, “it takes a big man to admit to being wrong.”
I believe W’s Iraq strategy was to establish a big sustained US military foot print in the heart of the ME, thereby countering and preventing the westward efforts of Iran.
Unfortunately he turned the administration of the Iraq peace over to incompetents, so the country was not properly “occupied”. A proper occupation would have yielded partition into Kurdish, Shia and Sunni Iraq, three future countries. And we were all boo-hoo about a few salacious events by a few Americans in Abu Graib. That was our media and our Dems leading the way, but it was No Big Deal; neither was it a Big Deal for Patton to slap one GI for “combat fatigue.”
W’s Iraq strategy was opposed from the start by a propagandist media and by a seditious democrat congress. As neo points out, there simply wasn’t sufficient societal consensus to maintain the effort. (Jacksonians VS Chamberlains).
The invasion of Iraq was ‘expected’ to both graft democracy into Islamic societies and send a warning to Iran that the game’s rules had changed. But when Iran saw that American society’s consensus was lacking, they knew that the Bush administration’s strategy had been stillborn.
That made the proposition of partitioning Iraq into Kurdish, Shia and Sunni Iraq a ‘non-starter’. Nor would the democrats have voted for it because Iraq as ‘quagmire’ suited their agenda.
The media turned Abu Graib into political theater and rode that horse for all it was worth. Propaganda pure and simple and low info voters bought it as truth. Abu Graib was “bad optics” for the Bush Administration and part of what led to the election of Obama.
How do we reform Iraq? Sunnis versus Shiites versus Kurds? An impossible conundrum. Either tell them all to STFU and swallow our unconditional program for how they go forward, or kill 90% of them just to get the message across. Well, we lost that resolve long ago.
Paper tiger.
If the Iraq war during the George W. Bush administration taught us anything, it was that the US is unwilling to pay the large price of the sort of effort and sacrifice (both monetary and human) required to intervene successfully in that area of the world, except in a relatively superficial and temporary way.
Just to point out that the civilian death toll in the 12 months in Iraq has been about 2,100 per the Iraq Body Count. Over the period running from 2003 to 2017, you’d be hard put to find a 12 month period where the civilian death toll was lower than 3,800 (and the current level of violence is less than 1/10 th the peaks in 2006-07 and 2014-15). Also, around 82% of the lethal violence in recent months has been in provinces with a critical mass of Sunni Arabs (the area around Buquba is particularly nasty). The predominantly Shi’ite and Kurd regions are much quieter. Iraq’s rather like Colombia over the period running from 1948-2010. Regrettable, but would having Uday and Qusay in charge be better for anyone not a retainer of Uday and Qusay?
I believe W’s Iraq strategy was to establish a big sustained US military foot print in the heart of the ME,
That has no reality outside your imagination.
Reforming Iraq is impossible because of the obvious: Islam.
What does ‘reforming’ mean in this sentence? Are Kuwait, Jordan, Tunisia, and Morocco ‘reformed’ or ‘unreformed’ countries? How about Senegal and Indonesia?
Truman cowered under the China threat to chronic consequences in the Korean non-declared war.
Actually, American troops fought Chinese troops for two years. And the Korean War was fought with money freely appropriated by Congress.
The Iraq War failed because America had no plan.
Did I miss the part where retainers of Uday and Qusay have taken over Iraq?
Russia simply does not have the money to play the superpower game for long.
Russia has an ample productive base (a gross domestic product of $4.322 tn per annum as we speak), making it the world’s sixth largest economy. The military sector is not proportionately larger than ours (both amount to about 4% of GDP). It’s fertility deficit is of about the same severity as our own (i.e. a 20% increase in live births would be salutary) and nowhere near as disastrous as Germany’s or Japan’s. It’s not carrying much public sector debt or foreign debt and their central government has a budget surplus. Whatever they’re doing is sustainable.
Trump is right to get out of Syria. Most of these “countries” are post WWII made up places courtesy of the Allied victors. The vast lot of people are tribal (cf. Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya). Democracy will never work there.
No clue which place you’re referring to. There are no Arab countries which were assembled by the Allied powers after WWii. Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Jordan, and the Sudan were assembled between 1906 and 1928 by Britain, France, and Italy in their various capacities. Jordan isn’t suffering any internal disorders right now. Lebanon and Syria are not ‘made up places’ and an ample population of the region’s residents understand themselves as ‘Lebanese’ or as ‘Syrian’. Libya was an assemblage of extant Barbary states and it’s residents speak a discrete vernacular Arabic. Iraq was an assemblage of extant Ottoman provinces and the Arab population in Iraq speaks an identifiable spectrum of Arabic vernaculars, distinct from those modal in Syria, Lebanon, and Israel.
As for adjacent non-Arab states, none of them are colonial artifacts other than some of the post-Soviet republics (in none of which does the prevailing ethnic group constitute less than 65% of the population). Afghanistan and Iran are antique. Turkey is the residue of the Ottoman Empire and only about 10% of the population lives in provinces where ethnic minorities predominate.
Any Middle East strategy giving credence to W’s Religion of Peace™ declaration is doomed to failure, deservedly so. The universe punishes stupidity, especially the well-intended variety.
ME minorities most worthy of our support are those whose existence is not based on genocide, and who have suffered from the genocidal imperatives of Islam. Western civilization should have done more for the Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Bahá’ís, and Christians. Instead we have taken in Muslims fleeing conditions that their religion creates, an influx that brings with it the aforementioned punishment. The brutalization of Europe’s children and the rape of its women was easily preventable, but that would have required intelligence to overcome the well-intended stupidity of their RoP™ delusion.
The wise do not pretend that the possibility of Islamic reform has happened until and unless it actually does. But Western liberals are so committed to a cotton candy version of unreformed Islam that they are determined to take it to the grave.
To which the universe responds “As you wish.”
Ultimately we are forgiven. Severed heads do not repeat the Religion of Peace™ mantra because the soul has moved on — hopefully less deluded than before. An underlying reality is thereby hinted. The long journey of lifetimes is for learning, all foolishness is temporary, and everyone reaches the ultimate goal.
Any Middle East strategy giving credence to W’s Religion of Peace™ declaration is doomed to failure, deservedly so. The universe punishes stupidity, especially the well-intended variety.
This is incoherent.
Art Deco,
“Reforming Iraq is impossible because of the obvious: Islam.”
“What does ‘reforming’ mean in this sentence? Are Kuwait, Jordan, Tunisia, and Morocco ‘reformed’ or ‘unreformed’ countries? How about Senegal and Indonesia?”
Whether internally or externally, Islam is theologically incapable of reform. To reform, Islam would HAVE to declare Muhammad to have either been deluded or a liar, in either case Islam’s theological foundations collapse.
Kuwait, Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco, Senegal and Indonesia are all examples of Islamic societies that are presently under the control of ‘cafeteria’ Muslims. But as the devout, fanatical fundamentalists hold Islam’s theological ‘high ground’ that control is tenuous and certain to eventually fall.
Thanks for the word salad. It’s not an answer to my question. If it occurs to you to actually attempt an answer, you might start with a precis of what ‘reformed’ institutions look like.
Apparently, the only ‘answer’ to your question you’ll accept is one that agrees with you…
However, I did give you a direct answer; it’s not theologically possible for there to be Islamic ‘reformed’ institutions.
Like ‘lapsed’ Catholics, it’s possible for ‘moderate’ Muslims to ignore Allah’s dictates and Muhammad’s declarations but in their silence and inaction they condone the actions of the devout, fanatical fundamentalists.
Thus, your question is nonsensical. Is that clear enough?
However, I did give you a direct answer; it’s not theologically possible for there to be Islamic ‘reformed’ institutions.
Which is not the answer to my question. A first step is defining your terms. You might get around to delineating a mechanism. You’re not getting the job done.
Geoffrey, you’ve uncovered the essentials of Art Deco; he defines the rules of the game and the only rule is, that whatever he says, it is correct. Get ready for more bluster …..
“Russia has an ample productive base (a gross domestic product of $4.322 tn per annum as we speak), making it the world’s sixth largest economy. ”
Where is THIS information coming from? According to the World Bank, Russia’s GDP in 2018 was actually 11th in the world and ranked BEHIND those awesome world powers known as Canada, Italy, and Brazil despite having 80 million more people than Italy and over 100 million more than Canada.
Mike
“Did I miss the part where retainers of Uday and Qusay have taken over Iraq?”
Seriously? That’s the standard of victory? That’s like saying you “won” an argument with your neighbor while you’re serving a life sentence for murdering him in his sleep.
Mike
Art Deco has slipped his moorings.
General rule of thumb:
When the MSM “jumps” on something and red-lines the hysteria meter, then the ONLY reasonable response is to say:
“Hold on thar. I’m inclined to believe that the truth is actually 180 degrees from what’s being reported; but I’m gonna have to wait a few days to truly understand what’s really going on.”
(This should already be crystal clear, of course. Ages ago.)
Regarding Turkey, Turkey is a problem. Erdogan cleverly emasculated the army (the guarantor of Turkish “democracy”, for what it’s worth; but more correctly, the guarantor of the Ataturk revolution—which despite its, um imperfections, is light years ahead of the alternative; to be sure, the Ataturk Revolution may well be history), together with the help of the witless Europeans, who helped him play the “Turkey can join the EU game if…”, i.e., dangle the promise/hope of Turkish membership in the EU as long as the army refrain from “anti-democratic” coups.
It seems that the only ones who will be able to save Turkey are the Turks themselves.
Regarding the Kurds, one speaks of “the Kurds”; but there are four distinct Kurdish political groups, and they don’t all get along (to put it mildly). The PKK, which may be the best known group, is a militant marxist organization. Such lack of unity does not help the Kurdish quest for an independent enclave/country, no matter how justified it might be. The major challenge for them is that the Kurdish region lies within four extroardinarily chauvinistic countries that regard a Kurdish state carved out from their own country as a threat to their existence. A Kurdish state can only occur if all (or most of) the countries in question cannot maintain their own geopolitical integrity. In short, it’s not going to happen. If it does somehow happen, it can’t last….
…But it looks like we may be fighting the last war….:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/10/last-night-we-saw-fascism-in-the-streets.php
“Russia has an ample productive base (a gross domestic product of $4.322 tn per annum as we speak), making it the world’s sixth largest economy. ”
Where is THIS information coming from? According to the World Bank, Russia’s GDP in 2018 was actually 11th in the world and ranked BEHIND those awesome world powers known as Canada, Italy, and Brazil despite having 80 million more people than Italy and over 100 million more than Canada.
You’ve confounded nominal GDP with GDP measured according to purchasing power parity. It’s the latter metric that it’s modal to use when comparing living standards.
Geoffrey, you’ve uncovered the essentials of Art Deco; he defines the rules of the game and the only rule is, that whatever he says, it is correct. Get ready for more bluster ….
om, this isn’t that difficult. Question 1: what are the features of a ‘reformed’ society, brass tacks? Question 2: how do you come to your conclusion about how the ideational faction (in this case “Islam”) influences the emergence of theses features and their interaction? Neither Geoffrey, you, nor cicero have attempted to answer either of these questions. The point of departure was ‘parker’s assertion, not mine.
Seriously? That’s the standard of victory? That’s like saying you “won” an argument with your neighbor while you’re serving a life sentence for murdering him in his sleep.
You all keep saying ‘failed’. That’s a pretty global characterization. At what do you wish to succeed?
Carve Turkey and establish Kurdovo for the Kurds, right? We could follow precedents set in South Africa, Libya, and other social justice adventures, lynch the dissenting Kurds, and open mass abortion fields for the Turks. Progress.
Art Deco:
Old boy, once again you attempt to frame the argument to your advantage, Are there any other words and concepts that we have to define to your approval before proceeding? It isn’t to difficult to understand your tactics of persuasion. Everyone knows you are right. /s
Americans should not be dying for an “independent” Kurdistan – run by terrorist Marxist Kurds. Trump promised to get the US out of wars where we’re unwilling to win — this sure seems like one of them.
On Turkey & ethnic minorities – of Turkey’s 72 million, some 20-25 million are “Kurds”, tho there has been fairly strong state supported assimilation and suppression of the Kurdish language. Thus, many “Kurds” identify as Turkish citizens.
It seems that Turkey (with most of the Kurds), Syria, Iraq, and Iran are all against any Kurdistan. And the fact that there is a violent, Marxist led group supporting independence means capitalistic America would be a bit foolish to support it.
The Kurds fought against Arab ISIS for their own reasons, and partly in defense of Kurdish people in various Syrian regions. Yes, like the commie Soviet murderers in WW II, they were allies with the US.
I’d like the Kurds to get independence.
I’d also like them to give up being Marxist, and become far more “limited gov’t” pro-business capitalists.
They haven’t yet, nor is there any single “leader” — and Turkey makes sure none arise in Turkey.
I suspect Erdogan will avoid “too much” ethnic cleansing. With killing more in the hundreds, dozens of hundreds (low thousands) rather than tens or hundreds of thousands. Sending loud signals to the locals, but trying to keep publicity of atrocities low. (Learning from the successful occupation by China of Tibet).
In Iraq, Bush and his silly Paul Bremer III “governor” were pushing democracy first. The world needs to know that market capitalism is more important, and more economically beneficial, than premature democracy.
via Power Line blog:
https://www.heritage.org/middle-east/commentary/trump-serious-about-syria-heres-what-you-must-always-remember
Also worth reading (both by J. E. Dyer):
https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/10/09/turkey-syria-and-the-kurds-a-nine-point-survey/
https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/10/07/quicklook-trumps-statement-on-turkey-and-the-kurdish-safe-zone-in-syria/
Thinking outside the box.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/10/11/erik_prince_syrian_kurds_could_pay_mercenaries_with_oil_money_to_keep_isis_at_bay.html
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/missing_the_bigger_picture_in_kurdish_syria.html
Old boy, once again you attempt to frame the argument to your advantage, Are there any other words and concepts that we have to define to your approval before proceeding? It isn’t to difficult to understand your tactics of persuasion. Everyone knows you are right. /s
You might do well to ponder the question at hand, rather than stew over petty resentments you have in re other commenters.
Reforming Iraq is impossible because of the obvious: Islam.
It’s like the French when they tell Americans; Reforming America is impossible because of the obvious: America.
Pissing people off is a good way to start wars and ethnic blood feuds lasting centuries.
swallow our unconditional program for how they go forward
The Unconditional Program of America was the Deep State. People should know that by now.
And why should foreign nationals swallow that? It won’t even benefit American patriots.
Our intelligence was totally faulty. Remember the “slam dunk?” The clown who said that got a medal! Saddam has WMD! Ah, no he didn’t.
Ever wonder why Syria still has viable nerve and sarin gas? It’s cause Saddam had WMDs and moved them to Syria while the Brits/UN were stalling.
Everything was captured on satellite spy tv. Only the media told you what you wanted to believe.
Americans: I don’t believe what the media tells me.
World citizens: I don’t believe what American media tells me.
American media: Saddam didn’t have WMDs.
Americans: Oh right, he didn’t have WMDs, we believe that.
Citizens: ….
To reform, Islam would HAVE to declare Muhammad to have either been deluded or a liar, in either case Islam’s theological foundations collapse.
It seems I am the expert on religions here for this place.
Islam only has to declare that Mohammed’s cousins and uncles were delusional or liars. Do you not recall what happened with the Sunni vs Shia split back in the day?
Mohammed only wrote the Koran. But Islamic dogma is based more or less on what subsequent Sunni writers wrote about Mohammed, in the surahs and commentary. This is much like Talmudic Judaism, where the Talmud is a bunch of oral and written commentary, rules, regulations, interpretations, that got added on top of the Torah. They even corrupted the Torah using the Masoretic vowel notes, changing the meaning of the words in Hebrew.
Every organized religion has experienced some corruption at least. And every religion, if made by humanity, is open to reform.
As for Iraq, the primary military strategy was to counter terrorism by creating a place where the terrorists had to go (the holy places of Iraq) to fight American hard boiled veterans. Instead of trying to find sleeper AQ cells in America, which if you recall, the federal forces aren’t exactly noted for being competent in. ANd to be competent, they would need more police powers than even the Deep State has to wield.
By sucking in terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, they not only depleted the vast majority of jihadi suicide bombers that would be killing kids and mothers in America, they also captured AQ’s chain of command, breaking their operations everywhere else.
These military intel operations are not something civilians are equipped to understand, Bush II included. He was a fighter pilot, not an intel analyst or spy or spook. He likes the fighting strategy of offensive strategy, defensive tactics.
In the process, this saved America for Hussein’s Obamanation (Abomination of Desolation). But that is not Bush II’s fault. That is you America’s fault for having zombie voters that you like to call your fellow countrymen, brothers, sisters, mothers, husbands, etc etc. That’s your fault. Try fixing it. Fix slavery yet? NOpe.
The reason why Americans have an infantile idea that it is Bush II’s fault is the same reason why they think Trum is gonna drain the swamp. They rely on their Presidents to tell them what to do, when to do it, how to save the nation, when to save the nation, and when to wipe their arse while at it.
it is a childish naivety born of a supposed “Land of the Free and brave”.
Ymarsakar on October 14, 2019 at 7:33 am said:
…
Americans: I don’t believe what the media tells me.
World citizens: I don’t believe what American media tells me.
American media: Saddam didn’t have WMDs.
Americans: Oh right, he didn’t have WMDs, we believe that.
Citizens: ….
* * *
LOL
And Beto went to Kent State to declare that only the government should have guns.
Can we say “cognitive dissonance defines the Left”?
— or at least those people who are not part of the willfully hypocritical, cynical, and malevolent leadership?
Ymarsakar on October 14, 2019 at 7:46 am said:
…
Islam only has to declare that Mohammed’s cousins and uncles were delusional or liars.
* * *
Looks simple in theory, but hard in practice.
Kind of like Roman Catholics having to declare that certain Popes were, indeed, corrupt and unChristian, without tearing down their entire institutional foundation. They have teetered along for centuries with that balancing act, but it’s been hard, and also led to Martin Luther, after which the Reformed churches faced their own dilemma in re principles, power, and leadership.
Joseph Smith went that route (Restoration) with American Protestantism, and it got him killed.
Did you put my Ymarsakar on October 15, 2019 at 11:05 am said: in moderation just now or was that someone else, Neo?
My intuition tells me that it is someone else. That’s because you usually do a lot more edits and just edit out certain lines if it is offensive. But your blog just put an entire comment into moderation because somebody found something offensive in it. So I can’t have a conversation with Aesop over there because your blog prevents the comments from appearing.
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