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“Disloyal” Jews voting for Democrats — 31 Comments

  1. One would think the 3D playing genius that Trump is, would avoid planting his own rhetorical land-mines, then purposely step on everyone of them.

  2. I guess this is another example of a Biden “truth vs fact” thingee.

    And the democrat “truth” is all in their heads and belief and TDS. Do not confuse them with the facts.

  3. Trump’s insistence that Jews be loyal to Israel? A higher allegiance? Where, pray tell, is he insisting that?

    “In my opinion, you vote for a Democrat, you’re being very disloyal to Jewish people and you’re being very disloyal to Israel, and only weak people would say anything other than that”

    His remarks were a descriptive statement of fact:

    They are his opinion. He even says so: “In my opinion”.

    Whether they should be loyal to Israel or not is another question entirely.

    Donald Trump thinks Jews should be loyal to Israel therefore vote Republican. That’s what he is saying.

  4. The organizations that Tlaib and Omar support — Hamas, Hizbullah, Miftah, etc., don’t want to destroy Israel — they generally don’t want to admit it exists. They want to kill Jews, and they readily and openly say so. The Democrats’ support of the Stalinista Squad shows that the Dems have finally moved so far left that they now feel safe in endorsing outright anti-Semitism.

    We Republican Jews (and yes, there are a few of us) have been trying to get our Democrat co-religionists to understand that the Left will throw them under the bus at the first opportunity. Well, here comes the bus!

  5. Per the troll, and to alter Mel Brooks (with apologies) ever so slightly: Don’t be schtoopid, be a schmarty, come and join the Tlaib Party!

  6. I can’t see how any Jew worth his/her salt can vote for a party that for the most part openly embraces anti-semitism. And not low grade anti-semitism of “I don’t like Jews” but blood libel, Elders of Zion anti-semitism,

  7. Manju:

    Just because you say it’s so doesn’t make it so.

    He is describing something, which is that Jews who vote for a Democratic Party that ascribes to the growing anti-Israel and anti-Semitic positions they now hold, and in particular that doesn’t strongly and specifically censure Tlaib and Omar for their anti-Israel and anti-Semitic positions, are being disloyal to Israel.

    It may be his opinion, but it’s also a fact.

    Obviously he believes they shouldn’t do it, because he believes no one should vote for Democrats. But his statement about their disloyalty to Israel is a simple statement of fact.

  8. IRA, that’s a question we’ve all been asking for a long time here. The answer, from what I can glean, is that most are non-religious, and identify as leftist more than as Jews. It seems to be a requirement of a secular Jew to embrace leftist politics as part of their identity.
    Yep, the bus is coming.

  9. As a Jew myself, I’m sometimes frustrated by the tendency of other Jews (particularly Reform Jews, rather than Conservative or Orthodox Jews) to have a higher adherence to left-wing “Liberal” beliefs than to traditional Jewish beliefs. It’s not that they place Jewishness above their loyalty to America; it’s that they sometimes place loyalty to whatever the lefty causes of the time are above either Judaism or America.

    Jews more than most ought to know that governmental power can be destructive, and that the more structured the government, the less possible it is to be Jewish. And as the Democrat party becomes more and more closely aligned with the AOC/Omar/Tlaib wing, the Democrat party is becoming more and more anti-Semitic. There’s not much room for traditional Judaism in the Democrat party any more.

  10. But his statement about their disloyalty to Israel is a simple statement of fact.

    Not according to Donald Trump:

    In my opinion, you vote for a Democrat, you’re being very disloyal to Jewish people and you’re being very disloyal to Israel”Highlights mine.

  11. How it will hurt Neo, will be reflected in the next election cycle, and since Trump cant afford to alienate more people, the less needless idiotic self-inflicted landmine stomping the better. Not that the 3D chess playing genius seems to understand that.

  12. physicsguy:

    For some, leftism has replaced Judaism as their religion.

    Not all secular Jews are leftist, however. But a great many leftist Jews are secular.

    However, not all religious Jews are conservative, either.

    In a poll taken in 2013, this was the breakdown. It’s quite interesting, I think. Among Orthodox Jews in the US, 36% were Democrats or lean Democrat and 57% were Republicans or lean Republican. In the political sense, 12% called themselves liberal, 27% called themselves moderate, and 54% called themselves conservative. The poll did not, unfortunately, differentiate between “liberal” and “leftist”—which I believe is an important distinction. My guess is that few of those 12% of Orthodox Jews who identify as liberals are actually leftists.

    Conservative Jews (that is not a political designation; it’s a sort of moderate in-between version of Judaism) have a different breakdown entirely. They are 64% Democrat or lean Democrat, 27% Republican or lean Republican. Politically they describe themselves this way: 35% are liberals, 38% are moderates, and 27% are conservatives.

    Reform Jews, a group that is by far the least conventionally religious of the lot—and the most numerous—are almost identical in their politics with Jews who are secular and don’t identify with any part of the religion at all. Reform Jews are 77% Democrat or lean Democrat whereas secular Jews are 75% Democrat or lean Democrat. Reform Jews are 17% Republican or lean Republican and secular Jews are 15% Republican or lean Republican. 58% of both groups describe themselves as politically liberal. For politically moderate the figures are 27% for Reform and 26% for secular. The figures are also identical between the two groups for political conservatism: 13%.

    Interesting, no?

    If you want some percentages, see this:

    A 2003 Harris Poll found that 16% of American Jews go to the synagogue at least once a month, 42% go less frequently but at least once a year, and 42% go less frequently than once a year.

    The survey found that of the 4.3 million strongly connected Jews, 46% belong to a synagogue. Among those households who belong to a synagogue, 38% are members of Reform synagogues, 33% Conservative, 22% Orthodox, 2% Reconstructionist, and 5% other types.

  13. “Donald Trump thinks Jews should be loyal to Israel therefore vote Republican. That’s what he is saying.” manju

    Given the democrat party’s commitment to leftist extremism, it’s not possible to vote democrat without embracing anti-Zionism, which as Dennis Prager points out is opposition to Israel’s very existence. It’s literally support for what in effect amounts to genocide.

    They have become the very thing they claim to hate.

  14. He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword – again.

    Doesn’t matter what he said, the spotlights are shining on two of the most toxic Democratic politicians in the land. Poor Nancy is downing a double and moaning “Why me, Lord? Why me.”

  15. Jewish Jews are amongst the most ardent of Trump supporters .
    JINOs not so much.
    but which group like Trump has Jewish grandkids? which has wehrmacht eligible gross kinder?

  16. I don’t expect American Jews or American Christians to be “loyal” to Israel. What I do expect is that they will support the existence of the nation of Israel.

  17. This is not about the Jews or the Jewish vote. It is about the overwhelming number of Americans who are either active Christians or who attended a Christian church as a child. Christian churches are not all about the New Testament. Not by a long shot. The Old Testament is the story of the Tribes of Israel and they are revered. A large majority of Americans support Israel.

    Trump is branding the Democrats as anti-semites. They are. If you think Trump is not going to leverage that then I don’t know what to say.

  18. I hear Trump get weak knees and talk gun control and bump stocks and I think, “Fractal Rabbit, maybe you gave President Trump too much credit.” That’s a great way to shoot himself in the foot, metaphorically speaking. And pardon the pun.

    Then he goes and says stuff like this. It’s absolute genius. The Overton Window gets nudged wider and wider. Subjects that were considered electrified third rails, are proven to be otherwise.

    He says something that every reasonable person can see. Something that they think is true but think they can’t say openly. And the left falls over itself to call him some name(s) (in this case Anti-Semitic), that once again, any reasonable (.i.e. Not Manju…) person thinks A)That isn’t true and B) They must think the same of me.

    I don’t buy the 3-D/4-D Chess Master stuff. But I will stipulate that he is a Social-Rhetorical Savant.

  19. Kate on August 21, 2019 at 8:18 pm said:
    I don’t expect American Jews or American Christians to be “loyal” to Israel. What I do expect is that they will support the existence of the nation of Israel.
    * * *
    It seems to me that your expectation (with which I agree) may be what President Trump means by “loyalty” — not, as the Democrats try to spin it, as allegiance to the country of Israel or uncritical support of every aspect of its politics, just basic recognition that Israel is a country specifically founded to preserve and protect the Jewish people and their religion, and deserves respect and support for that purpose.

  20. https://news.yahoo.com/trump-dual-loyalty-only-anti-semitic-in-your-head-181648117.html

    The Republican Jewish Coalition defended Trump Wednesday after his latest comments.

    “We take the President seriously, not literally,” wrote the organization on Twitter. “President Trump is pointing out the obvious: for those who care about Israel, the position of many elected Democrats has become anti-Israel. When Tlaib and Omar talk loyalty, they’re questioning American Jews’ loyalty to the United States. President Trump is talking about caring about the survival of the Jewish state.”

  21. More from Neo’s link to the “Founding Fathers” article:
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/roots-of-the-u-s-israel-relationship

    If one were forced to reduce the explanation for the unique relationship between the United States and Israel to one sentence, it was probably best expressed by Lyndon Johnson who, when asked by Soviet Premier Aleksei Kosygin why the U.S. supported Israel when there are 80 million Arabs and only three million Israelis, the President replied simply: “Because it is right.”

    American support for the age-old aspirations of the Jewish people to return to their homeland dates from the Colonial period when John Adams wrote: “I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation for, as I believe, the most enlightened men of it have participated in the amelioration of the philosophy of the age.” John Quincy Adams wrote to Major Mordecai Manuel Noah that he believed in the “rebuilding of Judea as an independent nation.”

    In early 1947, the British, who then administered a League of Nations mandate for Palestine, decided to bring the question of how to resolve the dispute between Arabs and Jews to the United Nations.

    The UN General Assembly decided to set up the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) to investigate the cause of the conflict in Palestine, and, if possible, devise a solution.

    UNSCOP, composed of representatives from 11 nations, visited Palestine and found the Jewish community very responsive to its inquiries. The Arabs in Palestine greeted UNSCOP with hostility and refused to cooperate. The Arab Higher Committee boycotted the Commission but demanded that the UN immediately grant Palestine its independence.

    As one author observed, the contrasting attitudes of Jews and Arabs toward UNSCOP “could not fail to give the impression that the Jews were imbued with the sense of right and were prepared to plead their case before any unbiased tribunal, while the Arabs felt unsure of the justice of their cause, or were afraid to bow to the judgement of the nations.”

    One UNSCOP aide was particularly influential, an American named Ralph Bunche. Later Bunche would play a key role in negotiating armistice agreements between Israel and its neighbors following the War of Independence. In 1947, Bunche set up a meeting between two members of UNSCOP and Menachem Begin, the leader of the Irgun Jewish underground. As he was leaving Begin’s hideout, Bunche told the future Israeli Prime Minister: “I can understand you. I am also a member of a persecuted minority.” Richard Crossman of Britain asked Bunche if his exposure to the Jews had made him anti-Semitic “yet.” Bunche answered: “That would be impossible….I know the flavor of racial prejudice and racial persecution. A wise Negro can never be an anti-Semite.”

    The majority of the UNSCOP representatives concluded that the question of ownership or right to Palestine was an insoluble antinomy. Rather than try to solve it, they chose the logical alternative of partition, in which both Jews and Arabs would be given sovereignty in their own separate state.

  22. “Then he goes and says stuff like this. It’s absolute genius.”

    So…clumsy, unclear remarks that can be thrown back at you to make you look like the demon the opposition wants you to look like coming out of your own mouth is absolute genius.

    If this is what winning looks like, then Trump is at least right when he says we’ll be tired of winning.

  23. Worth reading again in this context.
    https://www.thenewneo.com/2019/08/20/the-growing-acceptance-of-anti-semitism-by-the-democratic-party/#comment-2452459

    Richard Aubrey on August 21, 2019 at 4:47 pm said:

    Not too long ago, tne NYT remarked that none of the attacks on Jews in the city, of which there has been an alarming number, could be connected to white anti-semitism and hate.
    Which is to say, they didn’t actually happen, in terms of making a lot of noise. Which is to say, further, that a good many more can happen before it becomes a crisis which must be addressed by Authority.

    I keep saying it; it will be funny/sad when Jews find their safe spaces are Baptist churches and NASCAR events.

  24. https://babylonbee.com/news/women-who-dont-believe-israel-has-right-to-exist-not-sure-why-they-got-banned-from-israel

    WASHINGTON, D.C.—Congresswomen Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar reported Thursday they were bewildered that they got banned from Israel, a country they seem to believe shouldn’t exist at all.

    “It’s racism,” said Omar in a press conference. “It’s all due to racism. Well, that and a Jewish conspiracy. The Jews are behind this, for sure.” (The evidence indicates she’s correct on this assertion, a first for her accusations against Jews).

    Tlaib agreed, saying she wanted to ask Jews about the Holocaust so she could relax and get a “calming feeling” while she was there.

    “It just doesn’t make much sense for this country that shouldn’t even exist to ban us,” she said. “What have we ever said against them, besides suggesting they are terrorists who deserve to be pushed into the sea?”

    The women said they now had to change their vacation plans from hanging out with people they hate in a country they hate to somewhere less “Jewy.”

  25. I R A Darth Aggie,

    I have always had trouble understanding how Jews can support any leftist once WW II had ended. Every statist government has meant death to Jews, or at least severe reduction in the availability to them of their (and my) religion.

    Continued support for leftists after 9/11 deepened that trouble. 9/11 removed any and all doubt that anyone could have that those Muslims who hate Israel hate America as well. And yet, since before then and continuing to the present, American leftists have for the most part been overly sympathetic to Israel-hating Muslims.

    Oh–I need to add the obvious: Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism.

  26. Harry,

    I don’t think it’s clumsy. At. All.

    But, even if I did think it was clumsy and ill-advised, I would remind myself that there is almost nothing President Trump could say, on nearly any possibility controversial subject that won’t be used against him.

    Be honest: think of something rather innocent he could say about Jews and the state of Israel. Now picture the screams as the MSM takes it and spins it and gins up the mindless left and ignorant middle. Think of the tweets where they only partially quote him. Think of the sound bites and video clips where they edited a portion out.

    He cannot win playing it safe and silent and George W. Bush ‘nice’. And they’ve forced him into a situation where the only way to win is to ignore their “rules” and arbitrary boundaries of “decency”. They are not decent people. And the shrieking and the repeated attempts to finally make this comment ‘Beyond The Pale’, even more so than the time before, and the time before that are not the endeavors of decent people.

    This isn’t going to change the vote of anyone already in Trump’s camp.

  27. “ So…clumsy, unclear remarks that can be thrown back at you to make you look like the demon the opposition wants you to look like coming out of your own mouth is absolute genius.“
    Who’s gonna throw it back? Bernie who married a shiksa? Schumer whose daughter married a shiksa? Sandy of Aragon? Shift who married a shiksa?
    Sorry the Party of FDRyms has no legs to stand on

  28. Fractal Rabbit on August 22, 2019 at 7:34 am said:
    Harry,

    I don’t think it’s clumsy. At. All.

    But, even if I did think it was clumsy and ill-advised, I would remind myself that there is almost nothing President Trump could say, on nearly any possibility controversial subject that won’t be used against him.

    He cannot win playing it safe and silent and George W. Bush ‘nice’. And they’ve forced him into a situation where the only way to win is to ignore their “rules” and arbitrary boundaries of “decency”. They are not decent people.
    * * *
    This has been clear since before Trump won, and started as soon as he had the GOP nomination (if not sooner). They weren’t decent to Bush I & II, or to Reagan, or to Nixon, or to any GOP candidate, official, ally, or voter that got in their way, or had the potential to do so.

    David Harsanyi hems and haws and ifs and buts, as is the custom at Never-Trump NRO, but finally gets the bottom line correct:
    https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/22/the-perils-of-supporting-israel/

    In the end, it comes down to the usual unsavory choices. Trump, no matter what kinds of things he says, has been the most pro-Israel president in memory. The Obama administration might have said all the right things in all the traditional ways, but it did things like stand with China and Vladimir Putin against Israel in the United Nations and send pallets of cash to a Holocaust-denying regime that not only funds anti-Israel terrorist proxies but targets Jews across the world.

    The next Democratic administration will almost certainly take a similar positions. Nearly every Democratic presidential candidate rallied around congresswomen who don’t believe Jews should have a state of their own. For Israel supporters, these are the ugly realities of the contemporary political debate.

    Any Republican or conservative or Israel supporter twisting their hands because Trump’s rhetoric is “unsavory” has completely lost sight of the stakes in this political debate.

  29. Richard Samuelson makes good points, starting with the first bolded line, which experience has shown to be the very epitome of wisdom in our political climate:

    https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/21/what-rashida-tlaib-could-learn-from-general-washington/

    My initial reaction to Israel’s revocation of a visa given to U.S. Representatives Rashida Talib (D-Minn.) and Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) was that it was an insult to the U.S. government. To reject or rescind a visa application from a private citizen is one thing, but to reject visa applications from duly elected representatives, whatever their policy views may be, is quite another.

    Further study changed my mind.

    Truly to understand the issue, [Tlaib’s “Delegation to Palestine” itinerary]it might help to look back to America’s founding. On July 14, 1776, William Howe, the commander of the British Army that had recently landed in New York, sent a letter to General George Washington. The writers at “Revolutionary-war-and-beyond” provide a nice summary of the story:

    The message offered a “pardon” to all who would lay down their arms and pledge allegiance to Great Britain. The letter was addressed to “George Washington, Esq.” The letter was delivered to Washington, but shortly afterwards it was returned unopened to the messenger by Washington’s aide, Joseph Reed. Reed informed the messenger that there was no one with that title in the army.


    What was that about? Howe was seeking a meeting with the commander-in-chief of the armies of the United States of America. Even so, he was addressing him as a private person, “George Washington, Esquire.” Pointedly, Howe did not address General Washington by his rank and title in the Continental Army.

    Why would Howe neglect to call Washington “General”? For the same reason, Washington refused to answer Howe’s summons. To call Washington by his official title would have been to accord recognition to the “The United States of America in General Congress Assembled,” which had commissioned Washington. (The commission was made in June 1775, long before Congress declared independence, but that didn’t change the diplomatic principle).

    For his part, “George Washington, Esquire,” or a person identifying himself by that name and title could not receive such a letter without implicitly denying the very cause for which he was fighting. This argument may seem petty, but it is, quite often, the stuff of diplomacy.

    Perhaps a publicly released itinerary such as the one that listed the trip as a visit to “Palestine” is not an official paper. Perhaps, but it is a type of official public statement by a public official. And, apparently, that itinerary billed itself as a “Delegation to Palestine.”

    In short, by calling Israel “Palestine” on her official itinerary, a U.S. congresswoman denied the official policy of the United States of America.

    Tlaib is also denying, by implication, the legal rights recognized by the very government that she has been duly elected to serve.

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