The Epstein autopsy report
I doubt anyone who didn’t already think that Epstein was a suicide will be convinced by the report. I already was leaning somewhat in the suicide direction and still am. But I also believe there was a neglect of the most basic precautions and, as AG Barr has written “serious irregularities” in the prison, either negligent or deliberate.
We don’t have many details of the autopsy report.
Whatever the truth of his cause of death, it sure is convenient for some very powerful people that dead men tell no tales. Another lucky break.
Now the really interesting questions begin… this goes far, far beyond the Clintons, if what we read is true…
What happens to the investigation, the charges, witnesses, and co-conspirators now? Maxwell, employees of Epstein including pilots and household help, the Victoria’s Secret guy? Prince Andrew and other foreign royalty and leaders?
What happens with all the victims, especially the ones who have already testified and are willing to do more? Some extra life insurance would be a good idea.
Some say this was a huge blackmail ring to gain control over powerful people. If so, who was running it? What did they accomplish? Whose interests were served? Which state actors are involved? I have to say, if you set out to design a perfect blackmail ring, you couldn’t top this one. It makes perfect sense in every way, and we know going way back in history that using sex to flip spies and diplomats is the oldest trick in the book.
Well, the rumors and photos of Prince Andrew give pause for reflection on the high and mighty. I’ve read enough Ian Fleming and seen enough movies to imagine Her Majesty’s Secret Service having had a hand in this dastardly deed. Teehee.
Given what is known now, here is a forensic pathologist saying that, in the 20,000 autopsies he has done plus the other 40,000 he has supervised or signed off on, he has never seen such/so many fractures from a “lean in hanging” when there was no velocity.
See https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/dr-cyril-wecht-on-epstein-death-have-not-seen-multiple-fractures-in-simple-leaning-into-suicide-hanging-in-examining-over-20000-autopsies-video/
P.S.–I would think that the NY medical examiner would have been under tremendous pressure to issue the “correct” findings.
Say it was a “suicide,” and the hunt for culprits in Epstein’s death devolves to looking at low level chumps—sleeping guards, and incompetent administrators, and it basically ends there.
Render a verdict of likely “assassination,” and the spotlight turns to shine on all sorts of rich, powerful, and connected people, plus interests, and even nations, all of whom would likely have wanted Epstein silenced.
It was also reported that well known forensic pathologist Dr. Micheal Baden observed the autopsy.
What does he think of this finding?
he has never seen such/so many fractures from a “lean in hanging” when there was no velocity.
Yup. Hyoid fractures are widely considered evidence of manual strangulation. height hangings usually cause a C2 fracture, called a “Hangman’s fracture.” Most short distance hangings cause death by suffocation with no hyoid fracture.
The preliminary cause of death is suicide due to asphyxia, Lt. Keith Boyd told the media.
According to Boyd, Williams’ assistant found him hanging in a bedroom, slightly suspended in a seated position, with superficial cut marks on the inside of his left wrist; rigor mortis had already set in. He was pronounced dead at 12:02 p.m. on Monday.
Robin Williams typical low height hanging. No mention of hyoid.
I’ve written today on another thread here about “low trust” societies.
I’d say my “trust” in the authorities, and what they say is supposed to be the ‘truth” is about as low as it can get.
To quote another comment I read today, “If your mother says she loves you, go check it out.”
Snow on Pine; Mike K:
Unless that forensic pathologist had access to the full autopsy report in all its details, as well as the police report of exactly how the body was found, the doctor is speaking out of turn.
A lot of people are speaking out without the all-important details. We don’t even know whether the report that the hyoid bone was broken is correct, although I suspect it is.
However, see this.
Let’s see… Epsteinsson… Ghislaine Maxwellsdottir (Employee Pension fund Embezzling dad Robert Maxwell was born Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch)…
Doesn’t take a brain the size of a planet to figure out that it was the Icelandic Secret Service running a Kompromat operation on anyone who might be useful to have a handle on now or in the future.
This blindingly obvious fact aside, it’s fair to say that we live in an age of utterly corrupted cynical elites of ALL ilks and the sooner we get them swinging from lamp posts, the better.
The West’s Augean Stables need a good sluicing out.
https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-operated-in-plain-sight.html
Sexual mores for the “elites” — however they are defined — have always been “a matter of taste” and have been less stringent than those for the hoi polloi.
Consult any history of royal families for examples.
She makes a good case for her thesis, but the answer to her question, as always, is the same as to these questions, and in fact to all historical questions of similar abuses by the Rich & Famous (and other politically untouchable groups):
Why did the abusive Catholic clergy collusion endure so long?
Why did the Rotherham rape rings escape retribution for so long?
Why did Harvey Weinstein et al. operate with impunity for so long?
Why did Teddy Kennedy’s reputation suffer no ill consequences for so long?
Because no one, other than the victims, would benefit from stopping them, and the negative consequences of trying would be dire, until their power and influence declined — and the public sensibility about victims improved — enough to flip the two clauses.
“We are not satisfied with the conclusions,” his legal team said in a statement.
The quote is from the WaPo, in reference to the team that put Dr. Michael Baden in the autopsy room with the ME.
From what I’ve seen so far, all this is exactly what I would have expected if this is in fact a homicide. Of course, the ME could have said it was a homicide too, but clearly the pressure is too high.
Dr. Cyril Wecht was unequivocal. If the original story about how Epstein was found on his knees is true, it is his opinion that multiple broken bones in his neck is impossible. It seems that we are talking about at least one vertebrae being broken which takes tremendous force or concentration of force.
To find a broken vertebrae, and then grasp at straws and say that maybe he threw himself off the top bunk, is an excuse searching for a justification. Was the top bunk mussed up? I’ll guess that evidence concerning the bunk is now gone.
If one does a survey of hanging suicides, mostly in a home environment, then people in the vast majority of cases will use rope. This is in no way comparable to a rolled bed sheet.
One more time…no one talking about the sheets he used to hang himself. Prison sheets are designed to make hanging oneself almost impossible. They are rice paper. No way rice paper is able to inflict multiple neck fractures.
Is it still suicide if someone has leverage over something that is more important to you than life? No. That is murder by other means.
Merkin:
Where did you get that idea?
When a prisoner is not on suicide watch, he or she gets fabric sheets. See this, for example. Also this, this, and this.
TommyJay:
Wecht loves controversy and he has taken many outrageous and sensational positions designed to get himself publicity. Are you familiar with his history? Just to take a few examples:
His Ramsay accusations are especially revolting.
More:
Much more at the link.
Wecht does not appear to even know the details of Epstein’s suicide or autopsy. Pure speculation.
I wrote some time ago that while Trum struggles against the DC coup de tat, his real campaign offensive with Solar Warden is being done against the pedophiles. Epstein was either in jail or not exactly on the radar at the time, but he seemed to be covered. Then this erupted. Nice to see the original intel analysis was on the mark.
What mattered in the war was not the Russian collusion gate disinformation, but the pedophile rings Trum was breaking up while the Leftists were distracted. Unfortunately, Trum’s Justice ministry was a bit naive, as was Trum, to think Epstein could be “held” on charges and made to testify. Dead men can’t testify.
about Epstein’s pyramid-scheme approach to abusing an apparently infinite number of teenage girls?
Because Americans at the highest levels of your slave government 3.0 power, has been abusing, eating, sacrificing, and sexing up 6 year olds.
…. What did you humans expect? Epstein is just a small fish compared to the Cabal or Solar Warden (Trum calls it Space Force).
Snow on Pine on August 17, 2019 at 2:28 pm said:
P.S.–I would think that the NY medical examiner would have been under tremendous pressure to issue the “correct” findings.
Say goodbye to his family, 2 generations front left right back, if he goes against his orders.
Also Remember Andrew Breitbart? Look up the number of people who died of “heart attacks” that were potential problems.
This is because “heart attacks” are no longer entirely natural given 21st century tech. Tech the civilians aren’t allowed to use or know about. Crabs in a bucket.
Because no one, other than the victims, would benefit from stopping them, and the negative consequences of trying would be dire, until their power and influence declined — and the public sensibility about victims improved — enough to flip the two clauses.
To me, it is just that humans are weak and in charge of the evil in this System. It is not the angels or the devils or Satan in charge of evil, but humanity itself.
And they are too busy arguing and refuting Ymar to do anything productive about fighting the powers that be. Arguing with people online keyboard warrior style is always easier than engaging the truth of the power of their own nation.
I have to say, if you set out to design a perfect blackmail ring, you couldn’t top this one.
On this is soft/light pron compared to what humans do in this world and what American elite power bois and girls do. It’s not something the news will tell you about. They cover it… with a pillow.
Sex trafficking is not merely about teenage girls or boys.
His Ramsay accusations are especially revolting.
De trop even in the mental universe of the useless Boulder police department, who were adamant the young girl was killed by her mother. The district attorney kept telling them they had insufficient evidence for the Ramseys to be prosecuted, to no avail. The officers involved in the investigation remain adamant even in the face of DNA evidence which suggests an alternative scenario and fairly cogent refutations of their case against Patsy Ramsay in re the suicide note.
Confused this morning. The ransom note, not the suicide note.
I’m going to ask questions that I haven’t seen anyone ask, maybe because they’re going to be offensive to a lot of people: where did all these girls come from? Were they all runaways that Epstein and his procurer picked off the streets? If not, where were their parents? What did they tell their parents or their friends when they returned from Pedophile Island? I’ve seen aside references in a couple of articles that Epstein paid the girls and gave them expensive clothes. How did they explain that? There’s a picture of one of the girls in what appears to be couture or near-couture dress at some flash party. I’ll bet there are others. Does anybody else remember the mother who pimped out her 13-year old daughter to Roman Polanski?
Richard Saunders–
Coincidentally, a day or so ago I just happened to look at an 8/11 episode of “Life, Liberty and Levine” I had recorded, and the guest was Jaco Boyens,* producer of the new film, “8 Days,” about sex slavery, who was saying that there is a huge problem in the U.S., occurring right under our noses, with what he called the “sex slavery” of minors—which involves an estimated 300,000 minors each year.
Some minors are swept up off the street, some are kidnapped, but some are recruited in place.
They live at home, go to school, and have been reached by recruiters through their social media.
The sex trafficker’s recruiters comb through social media postings, Facebook pages, Youtube, etc., spot vulnerable kids—who feel isolated, lonely, don’t feel themselves attractive, loved, or appreciated—and groom them, tell them what they want to hear, supposedly “befriend” them and, then, gradually lure them into the sex trade.
If the numbers are anywhere near correct, this is a staggering problem and, yet, one that is apparently flying under the radar and/or that no one wants to talk about or try to stop.
** Boyens is originally from South Africa, and said that his own sister was kidnapped there, and was part of the sex slavery system for 6 years until her escape.
Richard & Snow: the sex abuse scandal in Rotherham happened “under the noses” of just about the entire town. People, including parents & police & social workers, either didn’t believe the girls or chose to ignore them, to avoid “offending” the perpetrators (** spit **).
IIRC, many came from foster homes or the equivalent of orphanages, one-parent families, etc.
The Epstein girls seemed to include some who were swept up, but some were offered “bait and switch” jobs that sounded okay at the time, but morphed into abuse.
Gifts aka bribes and threats may have been enough to keep them quiet in the days before #MeToo made it permissible to call out the Rich & Famous (one of the good things that came of opening the floodgates, even if some accusations were false, or about reprehensible but not abusive behavior).
/rant off
Richard Saunders:
It’s very unlikely that any of these girls were actually ‘enslaved’ in any way. They almost certainly were mostly willing participants.
I know well that it’s difficult to face at first, but you might want to consider taking the Red (or even Black) Pill regarding female nature. A quick google around the terms just alluded to will get you free-associating. Then it’s up to you to run these ideas past your own life-experiences and observations of what goes on around you every day.
The trick is not to see this as me implying ‘All females are wanton hos’… What I’m getting at is that we live in a narrative framework where females are generally the victims and men are the perpetrators. The reality is that both sexes have evolved in certain ways and that if certain traits enhanced male survivability, it’s not difficult to figure out the types of survival strategies which did the same for females. All our civilisation and religion is a thin smear on the surface of who we really are. We have the misfortune to live during a cyclic civilizational downturn so who we really are is coming more to the fore again.
Not going to rant on… but a bit of real life observation below:
I live in Hong Kong… and have in the past lived in various other Asian cities awash in money. You can imagine that tall, blonde, blue-eyed elfin teenage ‘models’ stick out like the proverbial dog’s dick in these parts. So why do I see so many of these going into and out of high end clubs in Hong Kong, Tokyo, Bangkok, etc?.. How did they get here? Did they somehow catch the wrong bus in Piccadilly Circus and get lost? Hell no. They followed the smell of money and power. Why? Because they’re women. Oh? You say women don’t do this kind of thing? Well, actually yes they do if they have the genetic goods to get away with it AND social constraints on female behaviour have been removed. More like vaporised these last 50 years.
Ghislaine Maxwellsdottir would have had to beat the uglier ones off with a shitty stick and doubtless insisted on test-driving the cream of the crop herself.
It’s Hamlet we need more than R&J: ‘There are more things in Heaven and Earth..’
Zaphod:
Whether an underage girl is a “willing participant” is quite irrelevant. She too young to give meaningful bona fide consent. And that’s not just a legalism.
Neo, Zaphod — my point wasn’t that they were “willing participants,” my point was, where were their parents, or parent? Or their friends? Or their brothers? Where were the parents of the 265 girls in USA Gymnastics who were assaulted by Larry Nasser? Not one girl ever revealed what had happened? Not one?
What has happened to us? To our society? If that had happened to a girl in my home town when I was a kid in the 50s, the perpetrator would have been met one night by her brother or father, and his friends, all armed with baseball bats, pipes, tire irons or monkey wrenches, and beaten to a pulp. For something like Epstein did, he would have been dead. Those were the bourgeois values that Professor Amy Wax of Penn Law School was excoriated by her colleagues for endorsing. And I’m sure they all claim to be feminists!
Interestingly, the release of the report does, to my mind, shift the probabilities back towards suicide and away from murder…somewhat.
I think I’m still, very slightly, on the murder side of things.
But if I had more direct experience of the number of people involved in arriving at this finding, and it was an uncontrollably large number of persons? In that case, the finding of suicide might leave me mostly-convinced it really was suicide. It would certainly eliminate my hoped-for WitSec option. There’s only so many persons who can be “in on” that kind of thing, and not have it get out.
All our civilisation and religion is a thin smear on the surface of who we really are.
No, your surfaces are every bit a part of who you are. And they’re not a ‘thin smear’.
She too young to give meaningful bona fide consent. And that’s not just a legalism.
It isn’t just a legalism, but it is true that the precise boundaries are conventional. You have to keep the young off limits, but who counts as ‘the young’ is fuzzy and is going to vary from one jurisdiction to another.
Not one girl ever revealed what had happened? Not one?
I think it’s a reasonable guess that when you have these pile-ups of accusers, for most of them its attention-seeking or grift. Sorting out the authentic claims from the exaggerated claims from the fabrications is an impossible task for the authorities.
Given the press keep on mentioning how much “insurance policy” detail Epstein allegedly had on powerful people, I would have thought they would all have in interest in ensuring that he was monitored closely and kept alive. Debate on this will run and run.
Art Deco:
Yes, the details change slightly. The principle remains.
Seems there are two possibilities; Epstein was cagey enough to keep an insurance policy around, one with a dead man switch. Or he wasn’t that cagey and he left scraps of information all over the place.
The idea that he maneuvered successfully to go out the door leaving not a trace of anything behind him for anybody to find seems unlikely.