20 killed in El Paso Walmart shooting
It looks very bad, with 20 reported dead, many more injured, and the suspect in custody:
The suspected gunman has not been publicly named, but two law enforcement officials identified him to The Associated Press as 21-year-old Patrick Crusius of Allen, Texas. It was unclear what connection the suspect had to El Paso.
As usual, there are a lot of rumors that are as yet unverified. The ones I’ve read so far indicate that Crusius may be the type of shooter the left will be able to use politically: a white guy who hated Mexicans. I have no idea whether that’s true or not, but that’s the drift of most of the news reports. I have also heard rumors that the Walmart (unlike some other Walmarts) was a gun-free zone. I also don’t know whether that rumor is true.
It usually takes 24 to 48 hours to sort these stories out, or more.
RIP to all the dead. A terrible act.
This, at a very early date, seems it may be related to the New Zealand shooter Mass casualties, manifesto prepared and angry young white man. Is this related to the Norway shooter ? Still much to be revealed although it seems that the WalMart was a “gun free zone. ” A bit unusual in Texas but I see them in Arizona.
There are people who believe that a sign which says “Gun Free Zone” means that someone is enforcing it.
Reality and facts never matter. The narrative will be followed, zero exceptions. The dinosaur media will make up whatever is needed.
Counting down to Manju talking point…
Niall Ferguson @nfergus: “This is the most insightful commentary I have read tonight on the horrific massacre in El Paso”: “The El Paso Shooting and the Gamification of Terror”; short excerpt:
Let’s see — he will be a white male between the ages of 18 and 30, grew up fatherless, unemployed or underemployed, spending a large amount of time on the internet at wacko sites and video gaming shooter games. He will be an atheist, and show contempt for other people, whom he regards as inferior.
Unfortunately, he will probably identify himself as being a “white nationalist,” which, of course, the MSM will assert is connected with conservatism and Donald Trump. Yes, in the ’30s he could have been a member of the SA. But he could also be a communist, a jihadi, a Black Panther, a member of the Red Army Faction, an anarchist, a Vandal, a Mongol, or a member of any one of an infinite number of violent groups.
The veneer of civilization is very, very, thin; scrape it away, and you will usually expose unbridled rage and violence.
“The El Paso shooter’s manifesto and 8chan post show his radicalization”- wait, so now the First Amendment must be done away with as well as the Second, lest innocents die?
Like Hades. If this was a leftist mass murderer this story would be deep-sixed lickety-split, but a killer the left can paint as a Trump supporter? They’ll be Pulitzers galore for this one.
Meanwhile, the endless killing and thuggery by leftists and their friends is just accepted as normal. Keep scrolling through bellingcat and you’ll get to a friendly depiction from January of the antifa thugs who have taken over the streets of Portland.
I’ve had enough of this ****. I’ve barely heard of 8chan and I don’t want to hear more, but long experience watching the left operate has taught me that everyone to the right of Hugo Chavez’s ghost is going to be expected to agree that this obscure set of fringe nullities must be otherized and shunned, with their Rights taken away, lest we all be damned as evil vermin deserving to bulldozed into a mass grave.
Because that’s what this is really about- the left needs the Bill of Rights to go away, so they can get on with their Great Project of destroying the Great Satan- i.e., United States. Hence, the endless demands for gun-banning, among other vile things.
No one should fall for this evil now, after all the destruction committed by these sort of people during the 20th Century.
“This is the most insightful commentary I have read tonight on the horrific massacre in El Paso”
Yeah you’re really going to get an “insightful” commentary less than a day later.
I notice that the FBI was saying that they were checking to see if the “manifesto” was really written by the shooter.
Lots a hanky-panky apparently going on the Internet with shooter’s online presence, in the instance reported below, to change him from a Democrat and a Christian to a Republican, Trump supporter, and an “Evangelical Christian.”
Similar to WIKI, where you can never be sure that any biographical–or any other information, for that matter–is complete, accurate, and correct.
See https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/leftists-change-shooter-patrick-crusiuss-mylife-page-after-saturday-shooting-from-democrat-to-republican/
Drudge has the manifesto. He wrote that his views pre-date Trump’s Presidency. Also a big environmentalist. Concerned about water. Parents own a big house. Also said he wouldn’t surrender.
https://www.apnews.com/3b1b785f5b364d9da050bec3d0d48312
To state the obvious, these weapons are not shooting themselves, it is the person pulling the trigger which is the problem.
It seems to me that many factors in our society today are creating more and more such shooters, or, should I say giving them permission to let their demons come out, to act out their rage and their darkest desires.
When, one by one, you weaken, and then completely remove traditional social controls–things like Judeo-Christian values, standards, and expectations for behavior–when you start to fill the culture and your “entertainment” with ugliness and violent images and ideas–with more and more bad–not good–examples–when you feed young people a constant stream of violent video games–especially “one person shooters” where they can pull the trigger and shoot countless “enemies,” when mind-altering drugs are increasingly available and sometimes legal, when family, sexual, and social structures and dynamics are subverted, disrupted, and perhaps even ultimately “transformed” into something unrecognizable, when the Internet allows for increased and anonymous aggression and hatred, when people with mental health problems–who formerly were probably more likely to be diagnosed, medicated, and/or hospitalized, but who now are not, and run free, when schools–when they teach anything at all–quite often teach hatred for your own country, history, culture, (and now race).
In sum, when social cohesion starts to break down, starts to spin out of control, and your culture increasingly creates chaos, isolation, alienation, dissatisfaction, despair, and often rage–this is what you increasingly get.
This is primarily a societal, psychological, and–and dare I say it–a spiritual problem, not a weapon problem.
P.S.–If guns were eliminated it would be knives, if knives were eliminated it would be caustic material–see the UK, and if they were eliminated it would be sticks or rocks.
What matters is not the weapon, but the world-view, mindset, and intent of the person wielding that weapon.
There is some real bad stuff happening, Dayton Ohio had another shooter this morning who was killed after killing several people and wounding others. Two incidents in less than 24 hours and I fear that more could be possible today. There are some angry young people, mostly men, with messed up brains, who for some reason decide to make themselves famous by killing innocent people.
There is no rational logic taking place when these events occur just destruction and mayhem for its own sake carried out by mentally disturbed people. Could these people be identified and dealt with before they kill? I had a conversation with a psychiatrist friend last year and he said it is almost impossible to have a person confined to a mental institution until they have injured someone, going before a judge to get and order in many cases would just end up in the doc being sued. If the person is over 18 the parents have no rights to any doctor patient information.
This is a sad situation and as the next few weeks go by this disaster will be exploited by politicians and the media without addressing the issue of broken, amoral, people who kill.
The above breakdown in Western and especially in U.S. social cohesion, the instability, and rising violence and chaos are, of course, exactly the results that the Gramscian “long march through the culture/institutions” was aimed at creating.
Killer was a big gamer. Call of Duty fan.
To focus on just one aspect of the “transformation” of our society and culture, in doing genealogical research, one quite noticeable feature of the obituaries of some of my ancestors were the number of fraternal organizations these men and women belonged to whose names were mentioned in these obituaries–quite often half a dozen or so obscure and now forgotten organizations which, I would assume, provided my ancestors with face-to-face interaction, friendship, camaraderie, and aid (and sometimes the money to bury them, with their fellow members apparently gathering together ,to give them a good “sendoff.”).
To further substantiate this trend, I have also run across articles which discussed how–in our Internet age–many of the major, established fraternal organizations are seeing their memberships radically shrink, and they have an increasingly hard time recruiting a new generation of members.
Is it a good thing to suggest that we’re lucky guns are available? Because if they weren’t, running an SUV across the front of a school when it lets out might be the next option. IIRC a terrorist killed eighty-some people in Nice with a truck.
Fake News kinda, sort of blaming Trump.
MTP guest says it is wrong for Trump to use the phrase “illegal immigrant.”
Snow on Pine – spot on.
And until this is learned the shootings will continue.
I’m sitting here listening to the news and they are interviewing a democrat senator who is claiming that increased gun control and the impeachment of the sitting President will solve all. How many laws were broken in this incident? And one more law is going to be the kicker? Pass another law and the shooter will throw down the weapon and say “oh, this is illegal and I cannot do this”?
Fools.
“The [rumors] I’ve read so far indicate that Crusius may be the type of shooter the left will be able to use politically: a white guy who hated Mexicans.”
The Dems (and their leftist puppet-masters) can make political hay of this only because everyone else is so ever-willing to be rolled by their hypocritical racism.
A few comments strike me: Ann, quoting Niall Ferguson, “–The act of massacring innocents has been gamified.” Cornhead, “Killer was a big gamer. Call of Duty fan.” These two shooters, in El Paso and Dayton, are not yet thoroughly investigated; however, it has seemed to me for quite some time that online gaming, and leftism, turn humans into objects to be manipulated. Another comment is spot-on, even without enough information about these events: Snow on Pine, “This is primarily a societal, psychological, and–and dare I say it–a spiritual problem, not a weapon problem.”
According to reports, the El Paso shooter was active for twenty minutes! Why? This was not a remote location. In Dayton, area police stopped the shooter in one minute, which is a good thing, since he killed nine and wounded twenty-six in that short time.
And, third, it is disgusting for leftists to be politicizing these killings before anything reliable is known about the killers, their problems and motivations, and whether the weapons used were obtained legally. They were never willing to say Trump-hating rhetoric had anything to do with the attempted assassination of Congressional Republicans, but are ready to blame Trump for these shootings without any information. Hypocrites.
“… Pass another law and the shooter will throw down the weapon and say “oh, this is illegal and I cannot do this”?
Fools.”
Indeed. Though, likely, you are using ‘fool’ to mean “an idiot, someone who is not morally culpable for the false-or-foolish things he is saying”, when, in fact, it means “intellectually and morally dishonest person who *is* morally culpable for the false-or-foolish things he is saying”
here’s where I self-impose a news blackout for it will mostly be nothing more than speculation; and blame the 2nd amendment, blame the NRA, blame the Republicans, and, of course, nowadays, the obligatory blame Trump “news.”
BTW–Another major support structure of our society, and particularly of males, the “Boy Scouts,” which used to provide an awful lot of young boys with the values, structure, skills, friendship, and guidance they needed to become good men and good citizens–under heavy attack by the Left–is being/has now been “transformed” i.e. essentially neutered.
Thus, another major prop, “civilizing,” and stabilizing influence knocked out from under our society and culture.
I need to correct myself. A news report I just read cites the El Paso police chief as saying the first officers arrived in six minutes at the Wal Mart shooting. The shooting appears to have continued for a while, however — but reports are still quite fluid, so maybe even that isn’t accurate.
Some reports say a second shooter was killed by police and there is a witness who claims 3 or 4 shooters dressed in black (link at Conservative Treehouse in comments, also on Twitter).
Antifa also in El Paso area this weekend for some “event” of some kind.
Also, no blood on the shooter? Not a single drop? Shoots 45 people, then turns himself in to cops and is then photographed standing casually with a single cop, like they’re discussing the weather? Does that look right? Hmmm.
Caution is advised on believing anything you see or hear via the media, as always. I’ve nearly given up on trusting them to tell me the Sun rises in the East.
Neo: “The ones I’ve read so far indicate that Crusius may be the type of shooter the left will be able to use politically:”
Any reasonable person would say that making these vicious psychopaths into celebrities by publicizing their every scribbling and details about their lives will only encourage more of them. But, of course, the Left media do not give a damn about the common good but only want to further their political agenda.
If the Left regains total power, as they had in 2008-2010, they will in short order cement it forever by nuking the Senate filibuster, packing the Supreme Court, and making the 10’s of millions of illegals aliens into citizens and registering them as Democrats.
Their next step will be to try to confiscate firearms. Either way it will destroy the USA. Either they start a hot civil war or they succeed and institute the police state they have said they want.
Jake Tapper had on TV former Baltimore mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. She was running her mouth about gun control and that Trump is a racist and white nationalist. I was wondering how many were murdered in Baltimore when she was mayor.
Beto, Bernie and, I think, Booker all called Trump a white nationalist.
Thankfully few watch CNN.
Beto also said Fox News is racist.
“Racist” now has little meaning, and “white nationalist” is going the same route. In any rational world, Trump is neither, nor are the overwhelming majority of Trump voters.
Things get interesting:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/leftists-change-shooter-patrick-crusiuss-mylife-page-after-saturday-shooting-from-democrat-to-republican/
Shooter was a Green. Concerned about water. All in his manifesto.
The motive to have agents provocateur do these crimes is much higher for the left than for the conservatives. A progressive might say to himself “ If I fake being a racist right wing supremacist, I might go down in history as the one who got rid of guns and got Trump out of office.”
If a conservative fakes being a progressive doing these crimes, no one will believe him.
@Dnaxy
It looks like that. Besides that, those guys use to kill themselves or die shooting. This one surrendered.
I bet he’s gonna start to say lots of very supremacist and hateful things and pro-gun stuff. It sounds like a martyr. Modern left is becoming a new religion, so martyrs are to be expected.
Turn off your TVs. All you will hear is politicians spinning the sorrow for raw emotion and their political gain.
I recommend highly that you listen to this Scott Adams podcast (#618) all the way through.
https://www.scottadamssays.com/
This will be the most rational set of statements that you will encounter about what took place yesterday.
In the first JOHN WICK movie, Keanu Reeves kills over 90 people. John Wick is “justified” because the Russian gangsters shot his little dog. Going back a few years, Uma Thurman in KILL BILL runs up a body count of at least 88. It’s fun. I once saw some footage of the Columbine killers performing murders inside that high school; they were definitely having a great time.
I kept nodding my head in agreement as I read the well-written manifesto, but he did whites, Trump and gun owners no favors.
Oh, and the modification of information for political points has already begun
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/leftists-change-shooter-patrick-crusiuss-mylife-page-after-saturday-shooting-from-democrat-to-republican/
Leftists Change Shooter Patrick Crusius’s MyLife Page after Saturday Shooting from Democrat to Republican
Go see for yourself.
Remember this whenever you make use of Google and Facebook and Instagram for any “facts”.
Possible good information here on the Dayton shooter. He had been threatening towards women, especially ones who rejected him, for some years. His sister was among the dead; don’t know what that means or if that was intentional.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/unknown-hero-knocked-the-gun-out-of-dayton-shooters-hands/
What we may have, probably in both events, is unstable people becoming copycat killers. Certainly “normal” people don’t go shoot strangers.
Any bets that one or both of these shooters was on anti-psychotic drugs?
Snow on Pine; You summed it up brilliantly;
‘This is primarily a societal, psychological, and–and dare I say it–a spiritual problem, not a weapon problem.’
There is so much hatred thrown around so easily from the media these past several years. It is not helping society. It is ugly and it is creating the type of environment that starts civil wars.
These mass shootings did not start because of Trump, they have been happening for a long time. Identity politics or tribalism is not good for society. America encourages hating the “other” and the results are horrific.
As we marveled at the potential of the Internet during its infancy, we only viewed its potential for good, giving little thought as to how it might effect troubled minds. What have we wrought?
…established fraternal organizations are seeing their memberships radically shrink…
Snow on Pine: Next door to my apartment complex is a building which hosts the “International Order of Odd Fellows” on various nights. I’ve been meaning to check it out. After all, I do consider myself an odd fellow.
I confess I do imagine fraternal organizations to be like Raccoon Lodge in “The Honeymooners.”
“The Raccoon Salute”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPDu4q4rfeI
Huxley–With all sorts of electronic distractions and ways to occupy (and largely waste) your time—-TV, Video Games, the Internet–coupled with the economic and transportation enabled/forced geographic spread of our population, and the increasing atomization, anonymity, lack of cohesiveness of view, and the increasing social and economic pace of our society–it is apparently the case that such fraternal organizations are not the first choice of people who want something useful and fulfilling to do.
It does not help, of course, that the image of such organizations is not anywhere as “exciting” as the newest TV show, movie, or video game.
During my exploratory visit to the local American Legion, a couple of decades ago, it seemed like the focus in their new building was on a huge Mahogany bar, where a lot of old guys were sitting around smoking and drinking early in the afternoon.
Moreover, I must admit that, back then, on a couple of occasions I went to a gem show held at the local Shriners building, and I was not impressed by the pictures of hefty older men in silly looking Fezes that lined their walls.
My impression, perhaps wrong, is that such fraternal organizations–particularly geared to agricultural concerns–may be more attractive and active in the countryside.
Yes and maybe their mothers and fathers took them to Church where they were informed that the universe had meaning, humans has intrinsic value, and that murder was objectively wrong and would send you to Hell.
But we are so much better than that now.
To repeat a little anecdote from some years back. I had a relationship with divorced female psychotherapist – neither romantic nor professional – in which I became involved in trying to help her in a small way to deal with a heroin addict son.
At one point, frustrated beyond all measure, it finally occurred to her to ask her Ex to talk to the boy who was at that point in his late teens.
The “father” talked to him, but when asked was unable to positively say if taking heroin was really wrong or if life was even worth living.
You see, as this paragon of masculine virtue wisely explained to his son: No one can tell another person “how to feel.”
I’m surprised it has not been worse to this point.
Moreover, I must admit that, back then, on a couple of occasions I went to a gem show held at the local Shriners building, and I was not impressed by the pictures of hefty older men in silly looking Fezes that lined their walls
Snow on Pine: My grandfather, apparently, was a Shriner. I didn’t know. At the cemetery when he was being lowered into the ground, a group of men in fezes off to the left were making ritual arm gestures.
To support some previous comments; there will be little or no honest, emphasis on honest, discussion in the media, or among politicos, over why these shooters do what they do.
I grew up in the ’40s and ’50s in a gun environment. Many of us had our own guns, and were allowed to use them unsupervised by the time we could drive. It was even earlier for farm kids. This was not unique. The environment was not perfect; there were two episodes of gun violence in my own family, each related to a specific situation. One due to a terrible mistake in identity and intent; and the other perpetrated by what we used to call a “crazy person”. But, people, and particularly young people, simply did not routinely go out and randomly slaughter as they do now.
What has changed? Key changes are pretty obvious, and clearly ignored, because exposure to scrutiny could strike at the heart of industries that produce billions.
Mindless violence is the life blood of the movie and TV entertainment businesses these days. Human life means little or nothing on programs such as Hawaii 50, a program that features a weekly slaughter. I single that one out because my wife watches it, and I am familiar with the format. It is possible to name many more.
The video game industry is a two edged sword. Not only does it feature great doses of dehumanizing violence, it isolates its devotees from normal human contacts. There was a time, not so long ago, when entertainment generally required human interaction; there simply were few alternatives. Thus, adjustment to social norms was an integral part of the “growing up” process. Not so now. People can, and do, spend their formative years engrossed in fantasy worlds and experience precious little human exposure. It can become easy for a troubled mind to segue into viewing persons as illusory figures of no intrinsic value.
Other dramatic changes have played a major role as well.
Parenting once involved one parent, usually the Mother, remaining in the home and devoting full time to child rearing. In my youth, “latch key kids” were an oddity. Even though we could often be characterized as “free range” kids, we always knew that there were any number of adults on the edges of our environment who were monitoring our actions. We knew that parents took their responsibilities to administer discipline quite seriously. We also knew where we fit into the family structure.
The Christian-Judaeo ethic was the standard. Even young people who did not live in a religious home were exposed to the tenets in a variety of ways on a daily basis. It is not at all clear what ethical framework is in play for the young of today.
Never mind. It is so easy to blame guns; gun manufactures—and Trump.
There’s nothing the federal government can do to stop these shootings. Why don’t people get that?
So, I read the manifesto that has been attributed to the El Paso shooter.
The striking thing about it is not the pseudo-rationality of the writer, nor the dubious reasoning he brings to bear on the immigration problem, but rather his complete lack of moral qualms in committing mass murder.
This fellow has constructed a narrative containing two options, decided without thinking the matter through that mass homicide is the way forward, and embarked on the course as if it were the most natural thing in the world. He talks as if homicide is a game.
He enjoins others not to balk at picking (slaughtering) the low hanging fruit of defenseless people, without clearly specifying how this program of murder is to effectuate the society he envisions.
But then again, environmentalism, universal “health care” and a universal basic income are things he seems to be in favor of, and which he predicts will be easier to attain if enough people are killed off. So maybe he has millions in mind.
What is this? National Socialism? Is that what “white supremacists” are? I thought they were supposed to be gun-toting anarchist hillbillies, not race conscious socialist game players .. child killers with a touch of sensitivity …
Huh? Ok, maybe the pseudo-rationality of the writer IS one of the more striking things about this murderer.
According to CBS ,” He was taken into custody without incident.”
Trump is talking about the restoration of the Federal death penalty.
It probably would have not much in the way of deterrent effect (unless you consider it as deterring recidivism), but it would serve justice in that it clearly stated, even to these day-dreaming lunatics, that murder is not a video game, and there is no reset button in real life.
If they don’t fear God, perhaps they can be induced to have some fear of man and of humiliation.
Couple of observations which are probably irrelevant:
Saw a pudgy kid, pasty white, wearing shorts, flip flops and a “BLACK OPS” tee shirt. Probably a gamer. Perhaps gaming keeps kids indoors and inactive and isolated because the games are so enticing. But he wanted people to think he was a Bad Dude while, in actuality, he was almost a figure to laugh at. If one were cruel enough, I suppose.
If he had a different life, perhaps he wouldn’t need to pretend with a tee shirt. And if he eventually figures out he’s actually not a Black Operator, he’s a figure of fun to women, regular guys view him with contempt……what to do?
Perhaps if we made more of Riley Howell and Kendrick Castillo and his friends, there’d be a different kind of copycat.
Meantime, there’s a Stop The Bleed course. Hour, maybe, straightforward. Your hospital will know where to find it.
Inevitably, someone will say that this doesn’t happen in other places. It does, and the U.S. is nowhere near the top of the list…
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/
If he were a Muslim he would immediately be a mental case. He probably is a mental case but will never be described that way by the left (or their media operatives,) because Orange Man Bad.
He’s not right-wing: libertarian. He may be in the left-right nexus: totalitarian-anarchist. He’s certainly not conservative or center. He’s either left of center, a rabid diversitist (i.e. color judgment including color supremacist), or an individual who has liberalized (i.e. diverged) with a catastrophic conclusion.
Trump is talking about the restoration of the Federal death penalty.
Elective abortion is already a Constitutional rite under the Twilight Amendment. Is abortion with cause (e.g. justice for abortionists… murderers) also a Constitutional right?
1. Minimize gun free zones. Over 95% of mass shootings in the United States are in gun free zones.
2. The whole of “mental health professionals” and their schools should be class actioned for inflicting all of the nutso whack jobs on the rest of us. Most of the mass shooters have histories of mental illnesses. These nuts cannot be drugged into sanity. They are put into society by shrinks with little if any supervision and everyone is so suprised that they snap and kill groups of citizens.
How would an enemy of the US—say a member of the ISIS remnant or an al-Qaeda leader—how would they use the recent gun violence in the US to further their cause?
miklos:
They were having a great time for a while. Please see this.
Re: the Manifesto…
It sounds a lot like Thanos in The Avengers: Endgame.
In any case, this one was psychological, not ideological. This guy was a complete loner and had that profile since he was in elementary school. He had no empathy for his fellow humans, because he didn’t have enough contact with them to allow him to empathize.
People who fit this profile need to be identified and interventions organized. This means that neighbors need to be a bit more intrusive. I know that goes against our inclinations to not bother people, but it is exactly that inclination that is allowing these extreme introverts enough time to become dangerous.
Good comments. These were horrific events. The presidential candidates and the media are exhaustedly ridiculous. They offer no solutions and just blame Trump. I really like Rep. Dan Crenshaw. He is actually trying to do something with the Red Flag legislation, that has had some success.
Cornhead, you were commenting on Baltimore. Food for thought; Coleman Hughes was talking about this crisis on the Rubin report. This article covers more than Baltimore. The MSM never discusses this and they should
;
http://americanfreepress.net/in-just-35-years-232000-u-s-blacks-killed-by-other-blacks/
Quoting the El Paso shooter: “So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources.”
This vile piece of shit is a Malthusian. Scratch a Malthusian, find a totalitarian beneath. He’s no conservative at all: he’s what’s known as a national socialist. Nothing whatsoever to do with American conservatism. Call him a liberal fascist because that’s what he professes.
It’s not clear to me that some of these mass murderers even deeply believe the things they say they believe in their “manifestoes.” It’s not about the issues; it’s about their own mental disorders and the desire to be important, to become the focus of attention.
Media personalities and politicians calling Trump a “racist” and a “white supremacist” have a mental disorder, in my opinion. That doesn’t mean they are directly responsible for anti-conservative episodes of violence, but they sure aren’t helping the situation.
A couple of years ago I saw advertisements for soon to be available Internet “worlds,” not just a video games type thing, but supposedly a wholly realized electronic environment/civilization/alternate reality, one that you could enter into, live, and participate in.
Being an avid Science Fiction reader, I had read enough cautionary tales to surmise where this was going, and that this was not a good development.
If these electronic worlds were indeed developed, I wonder how many young–or for that matter, older–people are immersed /enmeshed in such alternate realities to the detriment of their participation in the actual world?
For, after all, why be a pudgy myopic dweeb here in Reality —a wannabe keyboard warrior–when, in some alternate electronic reality, you are tall, strong, fearless, handsome, and accomplished, you might even have some special powers, and you’re a “chick magnet.”
I can see an awful lot of young people being seduced by this prospect.
cont’d–Then, of course, there is you being able to select or even design an “Avatar”–any kind of creature you want or can dream up–to represent you in some of these worlds, and possibly, as well, the added draw of sex without real commitment or consequence.
How cool is that, man!
I read up on the Red Flag Legislation. I think it’s an interesting concept, but it seems like a violation of the 4th and 5th Amendments to me. I have an alternate proposal:
All major cities have psychologists on the police force that are used to talk down people threatening to suicide. Suppose we use the same triggers as the Red Flag concept (reports by family, or neighbors of persons who are a potential danger), but instead of sending the police to forcefully confiscate their weapons, we send psychologists to actually talk to them and evaluate their mental state first. Then, if the mental health professional determines that there is a real danger, the response can be elevated on the basis of evidence other than third party hearsay.
Roy Nathanson, that sounds like a better idea. It would expose people to investigation based upon complaints, but so long as their constitutional rights were not restricted without due process, it would theoretically work. Unfortunately, like child welfare complaints, “the system” can easily get out of hand, so it’s not a panacea.
Kate,
Any system, no matter how well conceived, can be mismanaged. What I like about this concept is that it uses currently existing organizational infrastructure. The number of psychologists or psychiatrists on staff may need to be increased, or the PDs could contract the extra services from local hospitals. The effort would need to be launched with a public education campaign. I see no need for special legislation to start this. Each city can start today.
The El Paso killer: I just want to say that I love the people of this country, but god damn most of y’all are just too stubborn to change your lifestyle. So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can become more sustainable. “
This is the mindset of an environmentalist. Sustainable is a major tenet of the environmental religion. He has taken the creed to its end point – get rid of those who won’t live a sustainable life style.
Oldflyer: Amen. We both grew up in a time when everyone had guns and no one thought about using them on a fellow citizen.
RoyNathanson:
The current wisdom is never give unasked information to a police officer. In the future it will may be never give unasked information to the government shrink, not that that will “help” your ‘case.” Don’t worry, be happy. 🙂
in the two-week run-up to Gilroy, there were 36 other mass shootings from coast to coast — and 34 of those shooters were black [snip] These results echo a New York Times story from 2016 that stated, much to the surprise and chagrin of the reporters, that whenever there are three or more victims of gunfire, 75 percent of shooters in America are black.
1. As many as 12 people shot in Brownsville, Brooklyn: Police.
2. In Philadelphia on July 28: 1 dead, 5 wounded in shooting during rap video production.
3. In Philadelphia on July 28: 6 shot in Southwest Philadelphia.
4. In Uniontown, Pa. on July 28: Multiple Uniontown shootings injure 4 people.
5. In Chicago on July 20: 7 shot in Lincoln Park near Fullerton Beach.
6. On Wichita on July 27: Wichita shooting, victim and suspect identified.
7. In Pembroke Park, Florida on July 27: 2 dead, 2 hospitalized after shooting at Pembroke.Parkauto shop.
8. In Memphis on July 24: Three people shot in Highland Heights.
9. In Baltimore on July 20: three injured in dice game shooting in Southwest Baltimore.
10. In South Bend, Indiana on July 21: Police identify man killed on Niles Avenue.
11. In Kansas City, Missouri on July 20: Police are investigating a triple shooting.
12. In San Antonio on July 16: 4 wounded in shooting.
13. In Fort Worth on July 17: 3 people shot on Berry Street in east Fort Worth.
14. In Racine, Wisconsin on July 28: Triple shooting overnight in Racine.
15. In Modesto, California on July 24: Triple shooting at Modesto Park leaves one dead.
16. In St. Louis on July 23: Police investigating triple shooting in North City.
17. In Chicago on July 28: Four shot in North Lawndale.
18. In Jersey City on July 20: Three people shot, one killed.
19. In St. Louis on July 26: Triple shooting leaves one in critical condition.
20. In Detroit on July 24: Persons of interest sought in Detroit triple shooting.
21. In Washington, D.C. on July 28: Early morning triple shooting in Shaw.
22. In Kansas City, Kansas on July 21: Neighbors found teen mortally wounded in triple shooting.
23. In Tulsa on July 18: Police identify 2 killed in shooting outside fitness center.
24. In Flint, Michigan on July 21: One woman dead, two hurt.
25. In Baltimore on July 21: Nine shot overnight in separate Baltimore shootings (one quadruple shooting).
26. In Essex, Maryland on July 28: Two men dead in triple shooting.
29. In Paterson, New Jersey on July 28: Three men shot on Saturday night.
30. In Washington D.C. on July 28: 4 shot near Howard Theatre.
31. In Chicago on July 18: Woman killed three others hurt on Garfield Park porch.
32. In North Charleston on July 22: Three people dead, one injured after shootings.
33. In Birmingham, Alabama on July 28: Three people shot near Ensley club.
34. In Chattanooga, Tennessee on July 25: 3rd suspect arrested in deadly Douglas Heights apartment shooting.
Richard Aubrey on August 4, 2019 at 9:21 am said: Because if they weren’t, running an SUV across the front of a school when it lets out might be the next option.
Nah… you see it has to do with excitement and last moments, so getting the biggest count is not the game… if so, many other things would be on the table (so to speak).
German Cops: Syrian Hacked Kazakhi To Death In Street; Video Shows Brutal Sword Attack
And i brought this up years ago
List of grenade attacks in Sweden
Mexican drug cartels using grenades
Deadly devices pose real threat to US border towns
U.S. man nabbed for smuggling grenade parts to Mexico cartel
331 illegal aliens have been charged with 1,172 child sexual assults
Federal judge dismisses charges in female genital mutilation case in Detroit / A federal judge dismissed some charges Tuesday against eight people — including two doctors — in the genital mutilation of nine girls at a suburban Detroit clinic, finding it’s up to states rather than Congress to regulate the practice.
once guns are outlawed, it moves to other things like blades, machinery, bats, explosives and toxins
Gateway pundit is tracking how the internet is being changed
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/leftists-change-shooter-patrick-crusiuss-mylife-page-after-saturday-shooting-from-democrat-to-republican/
they changed his profile from democrat
and more…
It’s about time this country had some serious truck control! And pressure cooker control! And fertilizer control! And diesel fuel control! You know what, let’s just let the government control everything. And we have always been at war with Oceania.
Roy Nathanson—Re “McCarthyism.”
The Left has has been extremely successful in establishing and pushing the meme of “McCarthyism”; the meme to stand for all sorts of baseless, illegal, unethical inquisitions, and inquisitors, with McCarthy being portrayed as an ignorant, unscrupulous, bigoted, fanatical, sweaty Torquemada. *
So, for instance, those Hollywood screenwriters, actors, and directors who refused to say, under oath, if they were Communists were made into folk heroes by the Left—the fabled, “Hollywood Ten”—whereas, as the facts have dribbled out, we have learned—bit by bit—that they were, in fact, Communists, and that they acted and spoke as the did under the orders of the Communist Party they were members of.**
As the years have rolled on since McCarthy’s time, and more and more information has been forthcoming from sources like the 3,000 U.S. Army Signals Intelligence Service’s (the predecessor of the NSA) VENONA decryptions of encrypted Soviet diplomatic cables, from various files that have made their way out of the Old U.S.S.R.—see, for instance, the smuggled out notes that comprise KGB Archivist Vassily Metrokhin’s “KGB Archive”—the memoirs of former Communists, various books, and elsewhere, it has become apparent that—whatever the excesses of his personal style might have been—McCarthy was, in essence, correct in his accusations and, in fact, that there were more Communists embedded in our government and society—and that they were more influential—than even he dreamed of.
But see, for instance, M. Stanton Evans biography of McCarthy, “Blacklisted by History.”
**See, for instance, https://www.ammoland.com/2015/04/hollywoods-blacklist-and-agents-of-stalin-and-hitler/ and, as well, Allan H. Ryskind’s book, “Hollywood Traitors.”
Om,
Don’t dramatize it. The psychologist knocks on the door and says, “I am from the City and I am here because someone is worried and concerned about you. May we talk?”
RoyNathanson
Is this your experience or wishful thinking? And the reputation of Child Protective Services in blue states and “progressive” communities is stellar no doubt. But then you have spoken with approbation of the Latin American approach to community- based social involvement in other peoples lives.
Don’t worry, be happy. 😉
How many prisoners who were declared “safe” to release by prison psychiatrists, were released and, then, committed horrific crimes?
How many mental patients who were supposedly “safe to be released,” were released, and caused all sorts of havoc?
Psychiatry is much more of an art than a science, and unless someone is obviously psychotic–seeing things, grabbing at things that aren’t there, and talking to imaginary people, screaming and rocking back and forth, paranoid in the extreme, etc., it can be very hard to determine when that person is “safe” to be released, particularly when a manipulative patient/prisoner is very well aware of how they have to act and what they have to say, if they want to get released.
Then, of course, there is the problem that such a release into the public is contingent on/often assumes that the patient will continue to take his medication on it’s prescribed schedule.
What percentage of the reported several hundreds of thousands of people living out on the streets these days, do you think, have forgotten to or refused to take their anti-psychotic medicine?
Snow on Pine.
Couple of points; First shrink lets a Red Flag candidate out who commits a crime is sued for a billion dollars. No shrink every again releases a candidate.
There is a spectrum from barely noticeable eccentricity–stamp collecting–to violent, entirely delusional maniac. Somewhere on that spectrum is a point beyond which due process does not apply. And, not only do they lock the guy up, they start messing with his head.
Is that point going to be in the right place? Will personal liberty be subject to the precautionary principle? If a GS7 or the local equivalent has some empty beds and the quarter’s over in ten days…?
You can’t possibly ban everything that–with a little evil imagination and effort–can be turned into a lethal weapon.
I notice that most of these shooters choose a place that is a defenseless “gun free zone.” and/or where there is little chance of someone being armed there and fighting back.
Thus, my preferred approach would be to ban such “gun free zones” i.e. places which self-describe themselves as defenseless, and for as many people as possible–in all places and circumstances–to be armed–able to carry concealed or to even have open carry–and be trained to react aggressively and decisively against the shooter in an active shooter situation.
However, we are not at a place yet where such “drastic” actions would be seriously considered, and here’s hoping that circumstances never frog march/force us to that place.
Absent this supposedly drastic step, it is apparently acknowledged that there is a “profile,” that there are certain actions that people take–especially children or young people–which are signs that they could become serial killers–things like torturing animals.
I wonder if a profile of potential “shooters” could be compiled and, interventions, weapon confiscations, and/or hospitalizations staged, based on such a profile?
P.S.–I am as opposed as the next person to the government interfering with or abrogating an individual’s rights, but at some point, the good, the survival, of the many, of society at large, has to override the good of one or a few individuals.
Snow. How many false positives would you allow?
I don’t think my prediction of how Red Flag would work requires evil intent and effort. Not at all. It’s standard government practice. See civil asset forfeiture.
Now suppose somebody who’s annoyed at my landscaping Red Flags me. After a certain amount of time and legal bills, I am released. Does this count as some kind of mental illness for purposes of job applications, gun ownership, drivers license? Do I get my guns back?
David Harsanyi, The Federalist (today): ‘Do Something!’ Is Not Going to Stop Mass Shooters
https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/05/something-not-going-stop-mass-shooters/
As we’ve witnessed the serial political weaponization of one Federal institution after another during the Obama administration (DoJ, IRS, CIA, FBI, ODNI, NSA, Dept. Of State, and more, no doubt), it’s reasonable to be wary that Red Flag laws in the hands of these same miscreants will see the dropping of meaningful due process protections when the tool becomes useful faster than we can say “Do something!”. All the hedges in the world won’t stop ’em.
And of course people would never Red Flag a person falsely or falsely with evil intent, just as people would never call in a SWAT team on an innocent person.
Oops, already happened, and has gotten people killed.
Don’t worry! be happy! 🙂
The devil is in the details, right?
And there has certainly been a growing trend to use the legal process to strike at your enemies–see the Russia collusion hoax, or the partner, Ex, or hostile neighbor who calls CPS on you, and they barge into you house, look around, take your inventory and, perhaps, take your children away.
Or, in a deliberate abuse of “process” you are–over and over again–called to testify in court or before Congress, and you rack up bankrupting legal bills.
I could propose that there be extremely drastic penalties for someone abusing “process,” in this case, some sort of Red Flag law, but, of course, we have all seen how some laws or penalties are just not enforced, or at least not enforced against certain favored people and groups.
So, “what is to be done?”
I don’t have the answer, but I do know that the growing tendency, that public pressure, is to want to “do something.”
Snow on Pine (8/5/19 at 2:17 pm) —
Most of the Hollywood 10 admitted they were Communists in the Writers’ Guild of America West magazine, Written By about 10 years ago. (I should have kept my copy, but didn’t, sorry.) Some of them admitted to being underground Communists, that is, following Party orders without acknowledging they were members, and some of them admitted to have joined the Party in the 1950s, well after Stalin’s crimes were known!
The worst part about the admissions? There was not one letter to the editor printed subsequently saying, “So Elia Kazan was right, you were Commies all along, you SOBs!” or words to that effect.
That guy who beat up Rand Paul over the grass clippings might call Red Flag instead.
In many primitive tribes, the male cohort, generally at the time of puberty, is separated from the rest of the tribe and exercised for up to a year in what amounts to basic training in the rules and traditions of the tribe and in the duties and responsibilities of a man of the tribe.
In our society, this function used to be carried out by strong fathers, schools, and organizations like the Boy Scouts, Future Farmers of America, and so forth, and as a last resort, the military. Since all of the former have been eradicated or weakened to the point of irrelevance, perhaps it’s time to reconsider the draft. Believe me, I served in the 70s, and I know how bad the draftee Army was — race riots, widespread drug use, sabotaging and selling equipment — but it’s possible that was due to the sense of unfairness created by the very low participation rate. Maybe it’s time to reconsider a universal draft of some kind. I can’t think of any other way that might work to socialize these Lost Boys.
P.S.–And that “do something” does not include a lot of societal self-analysis, and taking steps to change key aspects of our culture that contribute to create isolation, alienation, and to “normalize” and to inject violent images and ideas into young brains; helping to set the stage, to create the “atmosphere” that makes the production of such shooters more likely.
Are we, for instance talking about restricting violence-filled, especially “one person shooter” video games? Are we talking about, say, a MSM and Internet ban on mentioning the name of or showing the picture of these shooters, or much about such incidents, to deny them the notoriety they crave? Are we talking about drastically reducing the violence of words and images on TV and movies, in books, and in music lyrics, including rap lyrics? Are we talking about reducing the violent rhetoric or images on the Internet?
And who gets to decide what is to be banned? So far such banning all seems to be coming from the Left, and being done with political intent.
**We do not want to let the Left take Rahm Emanuel’s advice to “never let a crisis go to waste,” and piggy back their agenda, to use the urgency and force generated by this “crisis” to fuel their way to victory. **
So, is there anybody or any organization today that we could trust to do a fair, honest, even-handed, and objective job with these restrictions?
I don’t think so.
So, back we go to square one again.
So, the nattering nabobs of negativity win again.
It hasn’t worked where it’s been tried, sort of like socialism. We just need a kinder gentler, more competent, … government program. Be happy, damit! 🙂
Then, of course, there is you being able to select or even design an “Avatar”–any kind of creature you want or can dream up–to represent you in some of these [online] worlds, and possibly, as well, the added draw of sex without real commitment or consequence.
How cool is that, man!
Snow on Pine: Indeed. Here’s Felicia Day burning it down with “Do You Wanna Date My Avatar?”
Do you wanna date my avatar?
She’s a star
And she’s hotter than reality by far
Wanna date my avatar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNyg1ftMIU
According to a gamer friend, the gaming lingo is accurate. The song was part of an online comedy show about gaming.