Democrats and NeverTrumpers can’t wholly abandon the collusion narrative, it’s too useful
“Useful?” you might ask. “What do you mean, useful? It makes them look crazy and desperate.”
I don’t think they’re crazy, and I think they only look that way to the right and maybe to some moderates/independents but far from all. And think about it; to deny collusion would be to say “we were wrong for over two years.” That’s hard, very very hard. Hard, embarrassing, and humiliating. Best to double down on the Big Lie. It’s worked in the past.
As for desperate—well yes, what else do they have? Obstruction (particularly unproven obstruction, based on unchallenged testimony, devoid of any underlying crime) is relatively weak tea compared to “COLLUSION!” “TREASON!” “PUTIN PUPPET!”
Glenn Reynolds points out:
Ralph Peters, on CNN, referred to President Trump as “slavishly subordinate” to Vladimir Putin. But that’s crazy. Trump has sanctioned Russia for its actions in Ukraine, Syria, and Iran, under his command the United States military killed hundreds of Russian mercenaries in Syria, has been sending weapons to Ukraine to resist Russian invasion, and most importantly has promoted U.S. oil production, crushing Russia’s main source of money and influence.
What Peters said is incorrect and illogical. It’s a conclusion not only unsupported by facts, it’s actually contradicted by facts, as Reynolds points out. But “crazy”? I don’t think so. It’s a tactic that makes sense at this point, especially since I’d bet that most of CNN’s listeners are unaware of the facts that contradict what Peters said.
Peters is counting on the likelihood that typical CNN viewers—the audience he’s addressing—will nod sagely at what he says. And I think he’s correct to think that.
The real question (as so often is the case) is about those in the middle. How many people who were on the fence about Trump before will now be rejecting the collusion narrative and not taking up the obstruction narrative? For that matter, how many people were on the fence about Trump before?
And where will the Democrat-controlled House go from here? Will they take the whole episode to impeachment, or will they just use the Mueller report’s Part II (the obstruction-can’t-be-ruled-out part) to smear Trump in preparation for 2020? I think they’ll decide on the latter. A trial in the Senate might expose the fact that they’ve got nothing of any substance. Better the trial by public opinion in the CNN courtroom.
And an actual crime was not really the point, it was merely the pretext. The point was to get an investigation going, cast a wide net, dig up all the dirt you can, and cast it in the worst light possible. Somewhere along the line, put the squeeze on subordinates to implicate Trump and hope they’ll tell the narrative you want told (who cases whether it’s true of not). If that doesn’t work, release the report when the Democrats control the impeachment process, and let them take it from there.
[ADDENDUM: Commenter “TommyJay” has pointed out that “collusion” isn’t actually a crime. My reply is that an actual crime was not necessarily the point, it was merely the pretext. The point was to get an investigation going, cast a wide net, dig up all the dirt you can, and cast it in the worst light possible. Somewhere along the line, put the squeeze on subordinates to implicate Trump and hope they’ll tell the narrative you want told (who cares whether it’s true or not). If that doesn’t work, release the report when the Democrats control the impeachment process, and let them take it from there.]
Victoria Toensing recently made the point on Fox that “collusion” is not proper legal terminology for any kind of crime. “Conspiracy” is. She went on to suggest that there is a reason why no one of the Dem side is using the conspiracy word, and it is because they wish (or wished from the beginning) to conflate some type of pseudo crime into something that we all will mistake for a real crime.
Almost laughably (if it weren’t so sad), a few have floated the new trial pseudo crime phrase, “a passive collusion.” So it wasn’t a conspiracy, nor was it an active collusion, it was a passive collusion.
The Left Axis will continue their hydrophobic attempt at a coup d’état.
Time to turn tables. Declassify. Investigate the investigators. More meat, less tweet.
TommyJay:
And an actual crime was not really the point, it was merely the pretext. The point was to get an investigation going, cast a wide net, dig up all the dirt you can, and cast it in the worst light possible. Somewhere along the line, put the squeeze on subordinates to implicate Trump and hope they’ll tell the narrative you want told (who cares whether it’s true or not). If that doesn’t work, release the report when the Democrats control the impeachment process, and let them take it from there.
“Put the squeeze on subordinates …”
I believe you made the point before: Who will want to sign on with Trump in the future?
It should be clear by now that a politically inexperienced person like Trump has and will go through lots of subordinates on his learning curve as well as the “kicking ass curve.” Produce results or get fired.
I agree they can’t back off orange man bad, their base won’t allow it. But the freshman representatives who won in districts that were solidly for orange man bad in 2016 are probably going to have a difficult time in 2020.
Funny how leftist servants of the people act… quite not like servants of anything but their own desires and greed and lust for power
What Trump needs to do is to order the FBI to make a list of dates and times when each congressional democrat made contact with a Russian with connection to Kremlin or a Chinese with connection to Beijing, only then we can compare and decide if Trump’s campaign had more unusual contacts with Russians or Chinese than an average democrat.
Not exactly crazy. How about the cognitive distortion of “emotional reasoning”? They know that President Trump is a Russian asset. They feel it in the center of their being. It must be true. [only 25% kidding]
Lies that work in the short term will, in the long run come back to bite one in the ass. Unless that is the GOPe decides to stab Trump in the back, a real possibility.
If not, the dems radical positions and blatant lies will provide a bonanza of devastating PAC ads, which skillfully constructed can leave the dems reeling.
If the mass media refuses to run the ads, then lawyers will have a field day and the propaganda organ of the Left can finally be held to account with new legislation and executive orders.
Free speech is not a license to lie and propagandize by organizations whose sole purpose is to inform the public in an at least minimally objective, neutral manner.
The opinion page and the front page must be clearly separated.
In 2017 Walter Russel Mead said this:
“If Trump were the Manchurian candidate that people keep wanting to believe that he is, here are some of the things he’d be doing:
Limiting fracking as much as he possibly could.
Blocking oil and gas pipelines.
Opening negotiations for major nuclear arms reductions.
Cutting U.S. military spending.
Trying to tamp down tensions with Russia’s ally Iran
That Trump is doing precisely the opposite of these things may or may not be good policy for the United States, but anybody who thinks this is a Russia appeasement policy has been drinking way too much joy juice.
Obama actually did all of these things, and none of the liberal media now up in arms about Trump ever called Obama a Russian puppet; instead, they preferred to see a brave, farsighted and courageous statesman. Trump does none of these things and has embarked on a course that will inexorably weaken Russia’s position in the world, and the media, suddenly flushing eight years of Russia dovishness down the memory hole, now sounds the warning that Trump’s Russia policy is treasonously soft.”
Just so. And it should be pointed out repeatedly by Trump and his allies.
“If Trump were the Manchurian candidate that people keep wanting to believe that he is, here are some of the things he’d be doing:
Limiting fracking as much as he possibly could.
Blocking oil and gas pipelines.
Opening negotiations for major nuclear arms reductions.
Cutting U.S. military spending.
Trying to tamp down tensions with Russia’s ally Iran
That Trump is doing precisely the opposite of these things may or may not be good policy for the United States, but anybody who thinks this is a Russia appeasement policy has been drinking way too much joy juice.
Obama actually did all of these things, and none of the liberal media now up in arms about Trump ever called Obama a Russian puppet; instead, they preferred to see a brave, farsighted and courageous statesman. Trump does none of these things and has embarked on a course that will inexorably weaken Russia’s position in the world, and the media, suddenly flushing eight years of Russia dovishness down the memory hole, now sounds the warning that Trump’s Russia policy is treasonously soft.”
This was stated by Walter Russell Mead back in 2017. It should be repeated at every opportunity by Trump ad his allies.
The problem with relying on “those in the middle” to see what the Left is doing, and possibly entertain the idea that the Democrats are lying through their teeth most of the time, also depends on their willingness to look beyond what the Media tells them.
Some do, some don’t.
(I used all three nouns because they are synonyms now.)
TommyJay on April 22, 2019 at 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm said:
“Put the squeeze on subordinates …”
I believe you made the point before: Who will want to sign on with Trump in the future?
* * *
Attorney General Barr did.
Let’s hope his work will Make the World Safe for Conservatives.
Dave on April 22, 2019 at 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm said:
What Trump needs to do is to order the FBI to make a list of dates and times when each congressional democrat made contact with a Russian with connection to Kremlin or a Chinese with connection to Beijing, only then we can compare and decide if Trump’s campaign had more unusual contacts with Russians or Chinese than an average democrat.
* * *
Wow, that sounds…rational.
“The opinion page and the front page must be clearly separated.”
Now that was one reason I stopped subscribing to the Washington Post years ago. I do like their new motto since Bezos bought the paper. “We pretend to be a newspaper but we’re just shills for the democrats.”
https://www.amazon.com/None-Dare-Call-Conspiracy-Allen/dp/1939438004
None Dare Call It Conspiracy
Order from Neo’s portal if needed.
I like the play on “None Dare Call it Treason”, as many dared not call Demoncrats traitors before 2012.
Federal Reserve, CFR, Richard Nixon, it’s all there as recommended by various sources to moi.
http://whale.to/b/jordan.html#%22DON'T%20MAKE%20A%20BIG%20PRODUCTION…%22
Sometimes the edit button goes up and sometimes it goes down.
Sorry for the duplicate comment. The first one didn’t publish right away, so I resent it. 🙁
AesopFan: “Attorney General Barr did. [sign on with Trump]”
You are so right. So far he seems to be massively better than Sessions. He has caught some considerable flack. Hopefully, Dems won’t find a way to indict him.
Brennan, Klapper, Comey, Meuller applied the tools that had been developed to topple overseas regimes to the US regime that they did not like.
Nunes has officially sent some referrals for criminal investigation to the DOJ. I remain eager to see, hear of, indictments of the deep state gov’t criminals whose multiple illegal acts, and actual illegal conspiracy, have created this mess.
I’ll “believe” in indictments when I see them.
Thinking of the “silver lining”, Congress has been so busy wasting time on this, they only got done a Huge Tax Cut, and allowed Trump’s Deregulation to proceed. The two main requirements for more economic growth in most OECD countries – tax cuts and deregulation.
And no new boondoggles of spending huge amounts of gov’t money. Hmm, Trump’s running up as much new national debt as Obama did, despite a large increase in tax income to the gov’t. Trump’s a big spender too, but this is not a good time to cut — it would be a good time to “freeze” more programs, but Dems won’t agree.
According to this analysis by Sundance, linked below, members of the Obama Administration were already using the IRS to do domestic political surveillance back in 2012 but, then, they vastly expanded the scope and penetration of their domestic political surveillance, by gaming the system, by using the access granted to outside contractors–likely Fusion GPS, Crowdstrike, and/or others–to the NSA’s virtually unlimited capabilities and database of surveillance results.
See https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/04/23/the-obama-use-of-fisa-702-as-a-domestic-political-surveillance-program/
Another benefit to the Deep State of getting an investigation – any investigation – going, and keeping it going, is that Congressional investigators were prevented from releasing information they had obtained, on the grounds that it would “interfere with an on-going investigation.”
Assume, naively, that Mueller’s investigation had a legitimate basis, that it was intended to further the cause of justice by establishing either guilt or innocence, based on the facts. It has been reported that Mueller determined as early as October 2017, that there was no collusion, but kept the investigation going, and the truth hidden, while he pursued the obstruction of a non-crime.
“Justice” would have demanded that he cease the investigation upon determining that there was no collusion. By continuing the investigation thereafter, it was Mueller who was obstructing justice.
The reason they are likely to stick with the Collusion Delusion, to the point of the Destruction of Obstruction and beyond, is pretty fundamental.
No collusion equals Trump won 2016 fair-and-square, which means that enough people rejected what the Left division of the professional/political complex had to offer to get him elected … and to call into question the value of those in that complex, and the need to defer to them on so much.
Trump’s success means that they are neither “special”, nor our “betters” – and that their morality is not The One and Only True Way. And their self-esteem can’t handle that.
“(who cases whether it’s true of not)”
Kee-rist, when did proofreading go out on the rubbish heap of history, right next to Trotsky?
If it’s worth writing, it’s worth reading before posting. Show a little respect for the audience.
What I find utterly inexplicable is that at one moment they can claim that Trump is in Putin’s pocket, and in the very next moment, they can call him dangerous and irresponsible for confronting Putin.
tom swift,
By all means, you should demand your money back… Oh, wait…!
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Julie Kelly, “Unredact All of It”: https://amgreatness.com/2019/04/22/unredact-all-of-it/
“. . . it’s too useful.”
Quite so, not least for purposes of the longer concealing the malfeasance of their Prescious, Pres. Pseudonym himself.
Judicial Watch: FBI Admits Hillary Clinton Emails Found in Obama White House, APRIL 23, 2019: https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-fbi-admits-hillary-clinton-emails-found-in-obama-white-house/
Brian Cates (drawandstrike): https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1120739567584333830.html
“…Obstruction (particularly unproven obstruction, based on unchallenged testimony, devoid of any underlying crime) is relatively weak tea compared to ‘COLLUSION!’ ‘TREASON!’ ‘PUTIN PUPPET!'”
Yes, it is weak tea. To show how desperate they are, Trump is going to exercise executive privilege to prevent key aides from testifying. Nadler says that if Trump does, that constitutes obstruction.
The saner heads in the Democratic party like Pelosi (nine words I NEVER thought I’d write) may have to go along with impeachment to drown out the results of any investigation into the origins of the Trump/Russia collusion hoax. My informed WAG is that the hoax is the Obama administration’s baby. Obama was awfully dismissive of Trump’s talk about rigged elections, calling it, “Whining before the game is even over.”
https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/18/politics/obama-trumps-rigged-election-claim-whining-before-the-games-even-over/index.html
A month later after Trump pulled off a feat the Obama crew at the ivy league freshman dorm known as the WH deemed impossible their tune changed. Clearly one reason why is that they had been spying on the Trump campaign (and since I’m not naive every other GOP campaign all along) and they hadn’t worked very hard at covering their tracks because, why bother. Laws are for the little people.
We already know that the fix was in on the Clinton email investigation. Lynch (like Cook County SA Kim Foxx) never recused herself despite her public lie. And the DoJ already had told Comey that they didn’t care what evidence the FBI produced they were never going to prosecute her. And one of the reasons why is that Obama was communicating with her via her unsecure basement/bathroom hard drive.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/former-fbi-official-admits-hillary-clinton-emails-were-found-in-obama-white-house/
Over 49k, to be exact, in Obama’s executive office.
Of course, this isn’t anything really new. We knew this back during the summer before the election.
“In a March 2015 email chain, Cheryl Mills, a top legal adviser and longtime member of Clinton’s inner circle, told campaign Chairman John Podesta of an interview in which Obama said he learned about Clinton’s private email setup from news reports.
“We need to clean this up — he has emails from her — they do not say state.gov,” Mills wrote to Podesta.”
During the interview Obama employed his go-to lie about learning about what was going on in his administration from the media. I used to joke that Obama would only learn what he had for lunch from TV news.
WikiLeaks had released emails hacked from Podesta’s private gmail account daily for more than two weeks. The Clinton campaign has refused to confirm or deny specific emails’ authenticity and has accused the Russian government of being behind their theft and release — a claim WikiLeaks and the Russians have denied.” (I’ll provide the link to the CNN article in a follow-on comment to avoid putting this in moderation).
I doubt that anyone could have prosecuted on the Wikileaks information. But now we have incontrovertible proof due to a Judicial Watch lawsuit into the Potemkin FBI investigation into Clinton’s email. They got the former Assistant Director of the FBI Counterintelligence Division to make a lot of damning admissions. So much so that U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth has called the information coming out of discovery in this suit, “[O]ne of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”
Naturally the judge overseeing this suit has to be understated to avoid accusations of bias. On the other hand I suspect that AG Barr and a select team of prosecutors and investigators can do wonders with this information.
The Democrats and their propaganda arm formerly known decades ago as journalism will feel compelled to turn up the volume to eleventy and go all in on impeachment to try to drown out the sound of blowback. But that my friends is what my Marine Corps DI called in a different context (roaring fighter jets taking off) is the sound of freedom.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/politics/cheryl-mills-john-podesta-email-obama-clean-up-wikileaks/index.html
I keep getting told Hillary! is the smartest woman in politics. Similarly, I was told, that Barack Obama single-handedly raised the collective IQ of the White House like no one else had since Thomas Jefferson dined alone. Plus Obama had an impeccable pants crease per David Brooks and first class temperament.
What does any of that even mean? None of them ever struck me as particularly intelligent. As a retired Navy officer I can tell you that I could have walked down to hangar deck when deployed or to the flight line between deployments and at random found a maintainer who was more intelligent and certainly had far more ingenuity than anyone in this crowd. Because they never faced a challenge in their lives. Everything was handed to them.
They also weren’t particularly skillful liars. Any officer in any service can tell you, although a small minority among the troops we had to deal with far better liars than either Clinton or Barack “If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, your employer will save so much money you can get a raise” Obama.
But then in both their cases they expected the administrative state would protect them. In Hillary Clinton’s case, she was being protected from the WH. And when it comes to the propaganda arm of the DNC known decades ago as journalism, the propaganda arm doesn’t care how much degradation it puts up with as long as Gollum-like they protect the Precious from the likes of me.
Hillary Clinton could have gone down the National Zoo on a day it was closed to the public, shot (badly I’m sure) every endangered species in the collection and hosted a BBQ for the Democratic party elite. Select media personalities would also be invited, and the only thing the members of the propaganda arm of the DNC would have fretted about is whether or not they made the cut. They’d show up for the BBQ in the desperate hope their Queen would allow them to take a selfie with her.
Media pool aboard the Hillary! campaign plane 2016. Look at the fawning facial expressions. Look at Andrea Mitchell.
https://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2016/09/crrgqk8wcaa_osl.jpg
My Gordon Setter, Romeo, was supposed to be my bird dog here in Texas shortly after I moved here (I wasn’t born in Texas, but I got here as quick as I could). But then I found out that land owners could lease out the land for a variety of purposes. I might become a partner in a hunting lease. But then the land owner could also lease out the grazing rights. And the cattle owner has the right to set out strychnine traps to control the coyotes.
Well, that’s it then. I can’t expect my Romeo, some dogs name themselves, to resist the bait they use to set those traps. It’s not worth risking my dog for a few quail. I love my dog, and my dog loves me. And when he looks at me with his big brown eyes, I see nothing like the puppy dog eyes Andrea Mitchell is making at Hillary! Clinton. OMG, look at the bliss on the faces of those people.
Actually, it would kind of freak me out it I had a dog that looked at me like Andrea Mitchell looks at Hillary! Clinton. “Dude, don’t you think you’re overdoing it?”
Point being you don’t have to be a good liar with that kind of protection. Any lame lie, no matter how obvious, is going to be accepted. Besides, it always struck me that these liars got an extra thrill out of giving us “deplorables” the finger. Making sure everyone knew they were lying but no one could do anything about it.
Still, hardly a crucible designed to develope skills.
Reporting is starting to emerge indicating that government officials (and others) in at least two of our supposed “Allies”–specifically in the UK and Australia–countries which are, along with us, members of the “Five Eyes” Intelligence sharing Agreement–comprised of the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada–were involved to some extent in this coup.
If this is true, and I were the Donald, I would make them pay a very, very heavy price in terms of intelligence sharing, military cooperation, economic relations, and anything else that I could think of that would inflict significant damage on these supposed “Allies.”
Snow on Pine, Italy was also involved in this skullduggery. As an ethnic Italian I sometimes take a grudging pride in that the country has sometime shown a spine. Decima Flotiglia MAS contributed to the art and science of Naval Special Warfare (SPECWAR). La Brigata paracadutisti “Folgore” fought well at El Alamein. I’ve read reports from today’s U.S. Army that is full of praise for the Carabinieri. They want to model that force, which is capable of conducting everything from sensitive civilian detective work to combat operations. Hitler once called the Spaniards the only tough Latins. Yet they folded after the Madrid subway bombings and after a bombing against an Italian army base the Italians did not. Meanwhile shortly before the Falklands war a British official expressed confidence that the Argentinians (Argenta is the Italian word for silver, as opposed to the Spanish La Plata) it would be a walk over since the Brits were up against a nation of hair dressers and waiters.
Ask the men of the HMS Sheffield how they feel about hair dressers and waiters.
I have a temper; I inherited that. I also inherited a taste for the cuisine, and a few other aspects of the old culture. Other than that I have no interest. I think the finest thing my great-great and great-grandparents did for me was to put that country in the rear view mirror so I can and I can help others move forward. When you think about it rolling the dice at Ellis Island was and is about the most American thing you can do. All or nothing.
During and shortly after WWII one of the keys to victory was said to be that our Germans were better than their Germans. Nimitz and Eisenhower were better than any two Nazi generals or admirals.
Our Japanese were also better than their Japanese. The 442nd in Italy. Our Italians were and are better than their Italians.
Mostly what my family from the old country did for me and mine was to bring us here. A country finally worth defending , if we can keep it. They put Italy in the rear view mirror.
You still bow your heads at “Manilla John” Basilone Road, when heading south on the I-5 past Camp Pendleton. “I’m staying with my boys.” Two Medals of Honor. I can not use the language I wish to use against the SJWs. Sincerely, an un-hyphenated American.
The Russia Hoax (witch hunt?) was to divert attention from Obama’s criminal acceptance of Clinton’s email crimes, and the illegal deep state cover-up.
Dozens should be indicted and tried for so many crimes. Will they be indicted?
Steve57 — the Alpini are great mountain and ski troops as well. We used to have a mountain division (the 10th), but they made it a plain light infantry division, took it out of the mountains and moved it to Fort Drum, NY (elevation 590 ft), even though they still call it the 10th Mountain. We sure could have used the Alpini in Afghanistan!
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Richard Saunders, I don’t doubt the Italians can produce great fighters like the men of the Mountain or the Tenth Light units. But your average Italian conscript is mostly confused and irritated that he is being forced to serve what he considers a foreign power.
Maybe a lot has changed since I watched the 1982 FIFA World Cup with a few Milanese. But they were confused by the banners being waved after Italy won. It was in fact the first time they had seen the Italian flag, and I had to explain it to them.
Nobody has to explain the flag of the United States of America to me.