All that Fosse
Another confession: I never much cared for Bob Fosse’s choreography, except for the very early stuff in “Kiss Me Kate” and “Damn Yankees.” And Gwen Verdon—that wonderful, wonderful dancer and impish spirit—was very much a part of my early admiration.
After Fosse really got famous and he became the dance king of Broadway, his later work not only didn’t interest me, it rather repelled me.
Static, full of posing, hyper-sexual without being sensual or romantic, it reached its tentacles further and further into show dance and popular dance and cancelled out the flow of it and what I consider the dance of it.
Here’s a review of two new books about Fosse that don’t paint a pretty picture. I’m a bit surprised, actually; I thought I was very much in the minority on this.
[NOTE: Go here for some wonderful early Fosse.]
Like Robin Williams, Fosse’s brilliance shined brightest within an imposed structure. Talent that lacks self-discipline cannot be its own master.
Hypersexuality that abjures intimacy fears introspection. It is the sign of a soul that has walled itself off from relationship.
I have questions that come up in my email from a site
, they want people to respond randomly or even a professional response. Recently the question., if you can believe this, was:
Why can’t white people dance ? I was shocked
They say there are no stupid. questions but C’mon man !
I guess a Trump response is warranted here. “Sad”
I just watched All That Jazz (for the 8 millionth time) which, whatever you think of the dancing, was a very entertaining movie. Ann Reinking, who of course played herself in the movie (the endlessly cheated on GF du jour) was interviewed for the DVD and talked about what a “nice guy” Fosse was. All righty then.
The only thing I liked about All That Jazz was Ann Reinking’s duet with Fosse’s “daughter.” That, I thought was wonderful. Elegant, stylish, exquisitely performed — with what I call “Snap!” where the step or gesture occurs at exactly the right moment in the music. (Drama and music can have that quality too … it’s where a particular emphasis is placed at just the right spot.)
It’s interesting you say that about Fosse, Neo. As it happens I’m a big fan of the Fosse-Ralls routine in Kiss Me Kate, wherefore I recently spent some time looking at Fosse- or Fosse-inspired choreography.
It’s true. After awhile, I had the feeling of “been there, done that” and had to move on to such hoofers as Cagney, Donald O’Connor, so forth.
Sometimes, enough is too much.
. . .
Thanks again for your posting about Tommy Ralls, and the link to the “KMK” routine. :>))))
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And another Thanks, for the link to the book review.
I did think Cabaret was a very good movie in various ways, if a mite tedious here and there. Standout: Liza’s “Money” number. If she didn’t put a lot of hard work into that, you coulda fooled me.
But the “best” thing in the entire movie was the Hitler-Youth scene, with that absolutely beautiful blond boy singing “Tomorrow Belongs to Me.” The cinematography and the conducting were spot on. Building from a wisp of a childlike dream to, in the end, the overwhelming force of Hitler’s murderous regime. Just outstanding.
Also, speaking of Tedious, for me that’s Sweet Charity.. But I still think that “Hey, Big Spender” is a smash. It really does present a picture of the Underbelly (so to speak) as a creation of Dada: Meaninglessness. But to me it works as theater, not like some dry morality lecture. “Theater of the Absurd.”
If he was mediocre as a choreographer he was a great film director though – `Al That Jazz’ and `Star 80′ in particular are brilliant. `Lenny’ is less good but pretty damn good anyway, `Cabaret’ and `Sweet Chastity’ also good.
RB Glennie: Except “All That Jazz” I didn’t notice Fosse had done those other films, which I liked. “Lenny” I consider under-rated, though not classic.
I can’t speak to Fosse as a choreographer though I was impressed by “Jazz.” Unfortunately the version I saw on VHS looked hideously degraded. A film friend told me that was a problem with color film stocks from the mid-late 70s.
“Cabaret” is immortal.
A friend used to sing “Big Spender” when her first baby would get cranky to marvelous effect.
huxley – I only saw Cabaret a couple of years ago, Sweet Charity more recently. I liked both them but neither had the command of filmmaking seen in ATJ and S80. The earlier films along with Lenny are good but I think BF only became a top filmmaker in the decade before his death. Again, as to his choreography, I simply can’t judge. But I find the `criticisms’ somewhat strange: that his moves are `oversexed’? I don’t know what does that even mean? Fosse attempted to convey sexuality at a time when standards were becoming more relaxed and thus could do so more frankly…. perhaps it is just this frankness during our current `Metoo’ era which is the source of this derision of BF’s work?
RB Glennie: I’d have to go back and watch “All That Jazz.” I just remember the dancing was quite striking. If it was also sexual, I guess I took that as part of the territory then.
I don’t know dance but I can sympathize with neo’s:
Static, full of posing, hyper-sexual without being sensual or romantic, it reached its tentacles further and further into show dance and popular dance and cancelled out the flow of it and what I consider the dance of it.
That’s not a bad critique of what’s gone wrong with today’s art, music and literature — particularly “full of posing.”
Today Scott Johnson at Powerline surveyed John Lennon’s guarded love songs. Even though the Beatles were the top pop group of their time, there was more than a measure of aching human authenticity in their lyrics, as well as the beautiful three-part harmonies they could bring to bear on the words.
There’s not much music like that anymore. Instead we get swagger, lust, anger, violence, and pretentious anthems. The smaller, gentler movements of the heart have largely been lost.
Question:
Answer: Because they are held down by the force of gravitas. [As by and large they should be]
Hey, you have to admit, there is something kind of brainless and primitive and self-indulgent in most dancing: something essentially sub-human if you define “man” as in essence “a rational animal”, and calculate that the rest of the evolutionary baggage doesn’t really count for much in the way of human dignity.
It doesn’t seem like something Achilles, or Aristotle, would do, (though the evidence is of course merely negative in their cases). If those are not acceptable examples, put Beowulf and Cicero in their places.
Which is why someone like Astaire with his fundamental stance of nonchalance, and his usual focus on the female, stands out in remarkable contrast to the grinning attention seeking “look at me too” exhibitionists who make up the greater portion of, at least male dancers. A bunch of Bradley Mannings for the most part. I said, for the most part.
Might as well look at road kill.
The thing is, when a male, apes a female’s manner of display, it’s just so much crap, no matter how technically adept it might be.
That said women dancing, is another matter altogether.
Roy Sheider deserved the Oscar for ATJ
By the way, and speaking of the percentage of males who dance and manage to be something more than chorus-boys…
I thought I had figured out how Rall, managed that startling swing into frame from height, and drop to the ground. But never, so far as I remember, posted it to Neo.
A review of the short segment, click starting and stopping, [as I recall] showed that there was no spring board used, nor even a running leap. Apparently the guy manages to pull it off by taking only a step or two forward for initial momentum as he grabs a horizontal handhold-type bar just out of sight, and then kicking the trailing leg upward as he swings outward, drives for height. In a sense, he propels his torso further upward through the swing, with the force of a kick into the air. Very impressive athleticism. He could have played football.
Funny I am saying this, as I have been sort of, in a way, criticizing dance.
But somebody really deserves some kind of award for something, when it comes to that movie in particular.
I was walking through the neighborhood one late afternoon as my cousin’s young fiancee, a blondish-red haired beauty with a flawless form and complexion – she must have been 19 or so – drove by in her car; and stopping it, rolled down the window and started chatting. She said she was at loose ends as my cousin was out of town, and she thought maybe we could kill some time together.
As she said she would like to see a movie, I left it up to her. You fly and I’ll buy. So I got in her car and she drove us to see “All that Jazz”. She was studying jazz dance herself at the time, though probably not in a very serious way.
We didn’t know what to expect of the movie. She found it, as they say, “stimulating”. When we left the movie, her own motor was so wound-up she was emitting virtual steam …
Fortunately, my self-restraint and worry over consequences, saved the day.
And, as she later related the whole evening in exacting detail to my cousin [‘We have no secrets’] , who then called me to thank me for being a trustworthy escort for his fiancee, it all worked out for the best.
I mean, talk about dodging a bullet …
The lead programmer of a software team I was on watched three movies repeatedly:
Aliens
Bettlejuice
All That Jazz
He was an unusual person. He was a Vietnam vet, a 2nd-degree black belt and had the most self-deprecating sense of humor I’ve encountered.
DNW:
Interesting.
Dance–especially male dance–is a type of athleticism, plus art.
DNW:
But I completely disagree with you about male dancing in general.
In folk dance (as with birds) it’s the men who have the fancy display, and it is very masculine. Don’t forget those Georgians with knives.
It’s amazing to watch Astaire’s effortless perfection. Of course we all know it was the perfection of endless effort.
But Gene Kelly makes my heart soar. That was a man dancing with a thoroughly masculine presence without any apology for being male in a largely female form.
huxley Says:
May 14th, 2018 at 2:16 pm
But Gene Kelly makes my heart soar. That was a man dancing with a thoroughly masculine presence without any apology for being male in a largely female form.
* *
Well said, although I trust you mean “art form” as Gene was most certainly not a female form.
And no toxic masculinity at all.
huxley Says:
May 13th, 2018 at 10:50 pm
I don’t know dance but I can sympathize with neo’s:
Static, full of posing, hyper-sexual without being sensual or romantic, it reached its tentacles further and further into show dance and popular dance and cancelled out the flow of it and what I consider the dance of it.
That’s not a bad critique of what’s gone wrong with today’s art, music and literature – particularly “full of posing.”
* * *
I can visualize exactly what she means with this, and I do not like it in the large doses we get with some modern dancing — it should be an accent, not the main palette.
The poses can certainly convey a mood or attitude, but that of sex-without-romance is one I don’t particularly care for.
huxley Says:
May 13th, 2018 at 11:13 pm
Today Scott Johnson at Powerline surveyed John Lennon’s guarded love songs. Even though the Beatles were the top pop group of their time, there was more than a measure of aching human authenticity in their lyrics, as well as the beautiful three-part harmonies they could bring to bear on the words.
There’s not much music like that anymore. Instead we get swagger, lust, anger, violence, and pretentious anthems. The smaller, gentler movements of the heart have largely been lost.
* * *
What a lovely phrase!
I listened to some of those clips at PLB, and was struck again by the harmonic complexities of some of their songs. Their music also became much more musically sophisticated as time went by.
You can hear that especially well in the the covers on The King’s Singers – Beatles Connection (this is a British cappella male vocal ensemble, if you aren’t familiar with them).
I didn’t find any on YouTube of the ones with that great original harmony, but “Blackbird” is one of my favorites from the album.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkarAwB0W8&index=1&list=PL4FA788902242C492
What a lovely phrase!
AesopFan: Thank you very much!
Most people who work with Hollywood people for long, begin to use channeling of spirits for their art. Thus it has a certain tone later on.
DMW – language came from music, music came from dance, dance came from rhythmic coordination… there is nothing `animal-like’ about it.