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Home » Mueller: is there any there there?

Mueller: is there any there there?

The New Neo Posted on by

Robert Mueller is facing more than the scorn of Judge Ellis. There’s another trial in which Mueller’s team recently came up short.

Here’s how it all began. Remember?:

In February, to huzzahs of delight from the media, the Democrats, and the NeverTrump people, Robert Mueller announced, via his errand boy Rod Rosenstein, the indictment of thirteen Russian nationals and three Russian entities for a variety of alleged computer crimes during the 2016 election.

There were some potential problems with that. For example:

One of the many criticisms of Mueller’s move was that it was pure propaganda. He could charge these people all he wanted, but they were never going to be extradited and tried. That seemed obvious.

Well, guess what?

Then in April, the most amazing thing happened. One of the indicted companies informed Mueller that it had retained US counsel and would see him in court…

Because the Russian oligarch has enough money to hire real lawyers who fight for a living, Mueller faced real opposition rather than people with no resources to defend themselves. You can be excused for looking at the manhandling Mueller’s people took from Manafort’s legal team and concluding they aren’t used to doing much besides bullying indigent defendants into a plea bargain.

More:

Eric Dubelier of Reed Smith, who represents Concord Management and Consulting LLC, has posed dozens of questions to Mueller’s prosecutors, demanding detailed information about how prosecutors built their case and the identity of all witnesses and cooperators.

According to a filing Friday in federal court in Washington, Dubelier even wants prosecutors to catalog U.S. efforts to influence foreign elections around the world since 1945.

Mueller asked for more time, but the court has denied the request, and the arraignment is supposed to occur on Wednesday.

Comments

Mueller: is there any there there? — 45 Comments

  1. As someone said, it is hard to root for the Russians. Nevertheless.

    I have never been able to get my head straight on the Flynn guilty plea. I knew that “Mueller’s Marauders” had the ability, and the ruthlessness, to inflict financial hardship without ever making a case; but, then I read today that they were also threatening to prosecute Flynn’s son if he didn’t capitulate. So, they were squeezing him in more than one vise.

    Good for Manafort, and good for the Russians for publicly challenging this crowd. I hope the American people are watching all of this closely– although I fear not–and are not just accepting the MSM spin as though it were the truth. In that regard, my daily, overpriced, rag usually has a front page story about Trump that is sourced to the NYT. There should be no doubt about the point of view.

  4. Pull back a little bit, and you can see how Muller’s political prosecution has taken a wrecking ball to our major political/governmental institutions that has exposed, and underlined, for all to see, the corruption at their hearts.

    Talk about unintended consequences!

    The DOJ, the FBI? Now pretty much universally suspect.

    The court system and many of our judges? Shown, to be far from objective, or following the law and the Constitution.

    The fairness and impartiality of the law and of of the legal process? Well, that illusion has been shattered.

    The MSM? All our worst suspicions confirmed.

    The Democrat Party and Congressional Democrats (plus, unfortunately, a lot of Congressional Republicans as well)? Who, given their behavior in this matter, still really believes that they are at all interested in the truth, or in doing an honest job of trying to do what is best for our country?

  5. SoP, yes, this unfortunately, is a huge, huge problem.

    Not sure how to recover form it, either.

    Things have become so extraordinarily partisan. Toxically partisan.

    Maybe some will “see the error of their ways” but I wouldn’t count on it.

  6. I call it factionalism not partisanship because party ship at least tries to pretend that they are all the loyal opposition when they lose. Only traitors in a coup de tat for civil war, does not care what they look like.

    IRS, CIA, FBI, DOJ, DOD, DOS, Fish and game, FDA, DEA, what else are we missing… oh yeah, the Park Rangers that put the rod to the people when Hussein gave the orders.

    It’s easier to talk about which institutions are not corrupt than about which US institutions are just.

  7. If there’d ever been any there there his bills wouldn’t have been limited to process crimes, Russian internet trolls, 12 year old tax charges which some puzzling quirk in the law allows him to resuscitate, miscellaneous contentions about Mr. Manafort which could have been handled by the Criminal Division or the U.S. Attorneys. New we see there’s a commissioning document so secret his minion Michael Dreeben has the audacity argue the judge cannot see it, &c.

  8. Barry Meislin Says:
    “Things have become so extraordinarily partisan. Toxically partisan.”

    Not ‘things’–it’s the Democrats. Meantime we have numerous republicans starting with McConnell and Ryan who still believe we have a functioning government and try to deal with the Democrats as if they were reasonable.

    Back to Neo’s post, there are a few political bright spots recently and I am glad she is posting some of them.

  9. watch Mueller to make a bold move in the next days to save face. Subpoena Trump, raid Ivanka’s office, indict Don Jr, or could be something even more inconceivably dramatic.

  10. Barry Meislin–Yeah, that’s the problem.

    Once trust is lost–no matter how hard the efforts made to regain it might be–it’s never really totally regained again, or in as solid a form as it previously had been–there will always be lingering suspicions.

    One of the reasons given for how well American society works (or unfortunately, it used to work)–in contrast to most traditional societies–was because there was a very high level of trust between citizens (and I presume between citizens and our government, as well) and this decreased suspicion and conflict, increased social cohesion, and fostered cooperation.

    So to speak, we here in the U.S. see/have an ever enlarging “pie,” and giving you a piece doesn’t mean that someone else must therefore be denied his piece.

    Whereas in traditional societies/other countries there was, and still is, no trust and little social cohesion because, outside of your immediate family or local neighborhood (and sometimes even within them) everyone was seen as your enemy, out to do you harm if they could and to steal your piece of the pie.

    People saw a zero sum game in which, since resources were limited, you had to lose if your neighbor was to gain; thus, it was every man for himself.

    The default assumption by citizens here in the U.S. supposedly used to be that neither your neighbor nor you government wished you ill, or would deliberately screw you over if they had a chance to do so.

    I’m afraid that after these last few years many of us–perhaps an increasing number of us–have “woken” up to the reality that we can no longer make that comforting assumption about the benign nature of our government, or of many of our fellow citizens.

    That essential trust has, I am afraid, been irretrievably shattered.

  11. It wasn’t just that the Russian company went to court for discovery, but the tactic Mueller attempted to use to delay the arraignment and the discovery rights of the defendant. To argue that the arraignment had to be postponed because the defendant had not been properly served was simply ridiculous– the defendant’s lawyers were standing right there in court asking to proceed while Mueller’s team was making this argument.

    That Mueller’s team was willing to publicly make such fools of themselves is telling- it means they never expected to have to prosecute this case and, thus, never expected to have to turn over the evidence in a discovery proceeding. After the arraignment this Wednesday, I expect Mueller will than argue for delay after delay. Not getting that, I expect the charges will then be dropped.

  13. The unmaskers have been unmasked for those with eyes that see. Corruption will always erode integrity when boat loads of cash, unbridled power, and unwarranted esteem is bestowed upon scaliwags. DC really is the District of Criminals.

  14. P.S.–The above likely accidental, collateral damage not withstanding, a major objective of the Left’s Gramscian, all-spectrum war against all Western bourgeois societies has always been to shatter our social cohesion, especially here in the U.S., so as to weaken us, to divide and Balkanize us, to increase everyone’s levels of dissatisfaction, alienation, and despair, and to foster turmoil, suspicion, and violence; all to make a weakened, seeking a cure, perhaps an even on the ropes America more receptive to the supposed cures for our ills that the snake oil salesmen of the Left will offer–see Bernie Sander’s latest remedies.

    And, I must say, these 80 or so years of continuous, Gramscian, all-spectrum attacks against all aspects of our societies, lives, and cultures have smashed up and/or transmogrified a hell of a lot, so much so that our survival as the free democratic Republic that we were created to be is now, I believe, in jeopardy.

  15. The problem, of course, is that Mueller and the MSM will always be able to howl that the [fill in the blank] are trying to prevent justice from being done.

    That’s right. Trump and his supporters are trying to pervert justice….

    It’s trial by innuendo. Trial by the media. Via the media.

    The anti-Trump message gets pounded home daily, hourly.

    And it works. Though there will—there ought to be—a backlash. (Just as there was in November 2016).

    Just how much it works (or, on the other hand, just how big a backlash there will be) will be evident in this November’s mid-terms.

  16. Snow on Pines: I generally agree with you. However, the Left’s rage at being thwarted by us deplorables has exposed it as the disease, not the cure. The Left has shown us what it thinks of us, and that is beginning to unite us.

  17. People saw a zero sum game in which, since resources were limited, you had to lose if your neighbor was to gain; thus, it was every man for himself.

    China’s modern city culture is still like that.

    Even in your own clan, you can be backstabbed.

    If you lack a powerful family background like a military father or a governor father or some relative in government or with money and connections, then basically anyone can oppress and hurt you and you have no choice but to suck it up and proceed along.

    It’s pretty much how blacks are taught to act vs the Democrat union controlled police.

    The Left has shown us what it thinks of us, and that is beginning to unite us.

    Yes but… the Confederacy was united even though only about 3% of the pop owned slaves and were part of the supremely superior white aristocrat class. Blacks are united in their racial pride for Africa and against white culture. Being united does not mean being on the right path or being correct.

    United US Patriots fight to the death against the Leftist alliance. Who wins? The faction that is not.

  18. Many of the good points raised here, and many more, with gravitas, are to be found in a small book by R.R.Reno, “Resurrecting the Idea of a Christian Society”.
    Now, before secular and Jewish heads explode at the thought, let us remember that America was a Protestant culture, thus was united in a shared belief system, a community, from its earliest days. One country, under God, with liberty and justice for all. For ALL.

    A quote from p.181: “This book is essentially an argument that post-Protestant WASP culture is failing, that it promises freedom, but delivers tyranny. It may work well for the top end of society, but it’s hell on the weak and vulnerable. It makes a fuss over diversity but can’t deliver solidarity. Its false view of freedom undermines the authority of the two institutions that can limit government: marriage and the church. Its this-worldly focus distracts us from the higher things that give us a firm place to stand and from the higher loves that make us free.
    This failure can be hard to see.”

  19. If there was ever a clear example of the “Beria method” (“Show me the man, I’ll show you the crime.”), this is it.

    That so many people in high positions in our society don’t see how lawless this is, is very disturbing. Would those who hate Trump so much that any means is justified to bring him down be more level headed were it a President Cruz or Rubio? At least one would hope so, but that hope is fast fading.

    Many fine comments on this issue. I wish I could add something new or different.

  20. JJ, remember when I said that the police unions and laws were corrupt a few years ago?

    BLM is not just. But neither are the LEOs full of Demoncrat Union controlled death squads just either.

    But we got to OBEY THE POLICE OR ELSE, right…

    Who controls these death squads any more. It ain’t the patriots people thought were in State, IRS, FBI, CIA, DEA, ATFurious, and the friendly Park Rangers I can tell you that one for free.

    This is why I don’t care about winning debates with people here. And it doesn’t matter if they think they have won one over on me. In 5 more years, most of you will be singing the same song I did 10 years ago, back when people disagreed with me and thought I knew nothing. And those people are now singing the same song as me. Am I the know nothing or are they the know nothing now.

    Thus I have no need to lift a pinky to convince you of anything. That level of certainty is not something you will often. It is often mistaken as “arrogance”.

  23. “The default assumption by citizens here in the U.S. supposedly used to be that neither your neighbor nor your government wished you ill, or would deliberately screw you over if they had a chance to do so.” – Snow on Pines

    I think that the supposition is true in general, but not always, and not for all groups within the country.

    However, for most of us it works most of the time, which is why we as a nation can survive the times it doesn’t work well, and eventually rescue the groups or individuals who have been harmed.

    But the Social Justice activists claiming to effect that rescue are, in fact, a large source of the problem they purport to be solving.

  24. Oldflyer Says:
    May 7th, 2018 at 12:27 pm
    As someone said, it is hard to root for the Russians.
    …
    I hope the American people are watching all of this closely— although I fear not—and are not just accepting the MSM spin as though it were the truth. In that regard, my daily, overpriced, rag usually has a front page story about Trump that is sourced to the NYT. There should be no doubt about the point of view.
    * * *
    Sadly, your fears tie in neatly to Neo’s post on lack of diversity in the university, which is a magnified example of said lack elsewhere.

    When Mueller’s Investigation tips under the weight of its own slag heap, many people will be wondering what in the world happened, because no one ever told them they were losing the war, one battle after another.

    Cf. Germany after WW1.

  27. Among what Paul Simon called ‘the crap I learned in high school’ was a euphemism for American corruption in the 19th century – logrolling. The idea that a well lubricated collaboration between business interests and the denizens of Sodom on Potomac got lots of real stuff built. Real stuff like railroads. The difference is that the Robber Barons still had a passing respect for the people who built the railroad – even the Chinamen had a better chance of surviving that they did in China at the time. Today we have as president a throwback to those days in Donal J Trump, hailing from, naturally enough, Sodom on Hudson who spent his life building real stuff. He is a logroller who has some knowledge of and sympathy for the people who build the actual stuff. Today’s elites are not so much logrollers as skimmers – rent seekers – who when they notice the people at all, find them deplorable. They have been so colonised by Marxism that they think we vote against our own interest and are genuinely mystified at why we don’t keep putting all our money on their double zero candidates. Perhaps 50 years from now, Professor Emeritus Candice Owens will be explaining to the latest crop of Harvard graduates that 2016 was the Toynbeean moment when ‘the dominant minority lost the confidence of the internal proletariat’. 😉

  28. http://www.renegadetribune.com/firefighters-dont-want-5g-cell-towers-near-stations-50-federal-bills-allow-pretty-much-everywhere/

    I wonder if Trum will sell us out to Google’s 5g network.

    Once those cell towers get installed and people start dying of cancer, will America still be great again?

    Microwaves are pretty safe right. That’s why there are videos of cats being put into microwaves….

    Google would never passively microwave us to death over 10 years, would they. After all, their motto is do no evil and we can believe corporations and governments because they are American patriots… right.

    Don’t worry survivalists, we already got bunkers made out of Faraday Cages and even more convenient solutions for the Alt Tech cultural groups.

    Frog, hot water, jumps out. Humans do not.

  29. By the way, I’ve seen no evidence that the Russian government violated any of our laws even if they or entities under their control bought FaceBook ads and said nasty things about all our candidates.

    I’ve certainly seen no evidence that the Russian government hacked the DNC computers. Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t put it past them. It’s just that the FBI did what they usually do when they investigate anything involving Democrats. They don’t actually investigate. They don’t even go through the motions and try to pretend to investigate. So they never have examined the DNC’s servers. Because clearly the DNC, and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz have a lot to hide. And the FBI wanted to let them hide it (if it had been the RNC the FBI would have shown up with search warrants and seized the servers). So they let the DNC’s hand-picked “experts” examine the servers and pass the FBI the “evidence.”

    Which for chain-of-custody reasons would never stand up in a court of law. And it wasn’t actually evidence of anything. So I’m not claiming that there isn’t evidence there had the FBI bothered to look. But I’m also convinced that this klown kar DoJ/FBI wouldn’t be able to find evidence if someone pinned it to their tails and they searched with both hands.

  30. I had a previous comment, with links, about how hypocritical the left is when it comes to interfering in foreign elections. But I tried to edit it twice for formatting and was informed I could no longer edit the comment. Which is now gone. Now my earlier comment may not make as much sense.

    Obama massively and blatantly interfered in two elections. In 2015 his State Department sent a $350k grant to an Israeli political action group called OneVoice to try and oust Netanyahu.

    They claim they did it to support OneVoice’s peace efforts with the Palestinians. Which is unbelievable because OneVoice actually told the US counsel in Jerusalem how they would be using the money. To set up voter databases to rally anti-Likud voters. And much of Obama’s old campaign staff was in Isreal to help them do it. So they all knew why this group was getting the massive campaign contribution of appropriated US taxpayer money.

    The Senate Subcommittee on Investigations investigated this, so none of the details are in doubt, as even the Democrats agreed all these facts are true. But they signed onto it because the Subcommittee concluded that Obama and his flunkeys in the administration didn’t violate any of our laws by committing what the now call “an act of war” and “an assault on [a] democracy” by interfering in another country’s election.

    Then just before the Brexit vote Obama flew to England and actually threatened the Brits with trade consequences if they voted the wrong way. That if Britain voted to cut ties with EU it would have to ‘go to the back of the queue’ if it then tries to negotiate its own trade deal with the United States.

    Most Brits have the measure of this despicable man and knew his threat was just as meaningless as his red lines in Syria. But this blatant attempt to intervene in their election angered everyone no matter which side of the Brexit issue they were on. In fact, when Obama attempts to commit these “acts of war” against our allies and “assault their democracies” I’m convinced that’s one huge factor both Netanyahu and Brexit won.

    Which is why I thought this was a nice touch.

    According to a filing Friday in federal court in Washington, Dubelier even wants prosecutors to catalog U.S. efforts to influence foreign elections around the world since 1945.

    Hey, you know what? We let Obama get away with it because the Senate decided he didn’t break any of our laws. I’m also sure Putin didn’t violate any Russian laws, so if that’s the standard then we’re even on that score.

    I hate having to hold my nose and admit the Russians have a point and that if Mueller wants to prosecute them for interfering in our election, then we needed to at least impeach Obama for interfering worse in other countries’ elections twice just in his second term. But the hypocrisy and KGB/Banana Republic tactics of the left force me into that position.

  31. Eric Dubelier of Reed Smith, who represents Concord Management and Consulting LLC, has posed dozens of questions to Mueller’s prosecutors, demanding detailed information about how prosecutors built their case and the identity of all witnesses and cooperators.

    Sounds like Putin is pulling a Nunes. He’s trying to get Meuller to give up what he knows. This would benefit anyone on the Trump team who conspired with Russia to undermine our democracy. Of course, not unlike Rod Rosenstein, Meuller won’t give that up.

    But he may have to drop the charges in order to do that. Clever move by VP.

  32. Sounds like Putin is pulling a Nunes. He’s trying to get Meuller to give up what he knows.

    Defendants get to see exculpatory evidence. Sorry that bothers you.

  33. Demoncrats have been killing Americans under the cover of “democracy” for longer than our overcooked Manju was born as a cooked item.

  34. Manju, do you have any evidence at all that anyone on the Trump team conspired with the Russians? Or are you simply hoping that there is something that “Mueller’s Marauders” missed as, like some jack booted secret police, they conducted pre-dawn raids of people’s homes, and sought to ruin the lives of anyone in their path for the past year?

  35. One would think that by 2018 someone with a name like “Mé¼ller “ would stop underestimating the Russians.

  36. “….Putin is pulling a Nunes.”

    Are you suggesting that Nunes and Putin are on the same wavelength?

  37. “But he may have to drop the charges in order to do that. Clever move by VP.“

    VP et al certainly showed all the Mé¼llers male and female of their master race just how clever Russians can be.
    Hopefully Herr Mé¼ller will receive the same after all his Gestapoesque crimes starting with Ivins.

  38. Mueller’s mistake with the Russians is treating them like the other targets such as Flynn. These particular Russians, the ones Mueller charged, are wealthy enough to call Mueller’s bluff, and that they are willing to join the fray. As Macron would say, ‘delicious’.

  39. HKDave Says:
    May 7th, 2018 at 3:11 pm
    watch Mueller to make a bold move in the next days to save face. Subpoena Trump, raid Ivanka’s office, indict Don Jr, or could be something even more inconceivably dramatic.

    That would be out of character for Gestapo Chief Mé¼ller, since everyone says he is beyond reproach. Just ask Hatfill and Whitey Bulger and Rod Blogojavich

  40. Because the Russian oligarch has enough money to hire real lawyers who fight for a living, Mueller faced real opposition rather than people with no resources to defend themselves.

    HAHAHA.

    There is a god.

    …I sooo want to see that corrupt bastard lose it in court. Publicly. Full frontal view.

    …and lose to the effin’ Russki’s? –Sweet.

    I repeat: there is a god.

  41. Losing to Russians? That’s a lesson people named Mé¼ller should have learnt long ago

  42. Steve57 Says:
    May 8th, 2018 at 2:17 am
    I’ve certainly seen no evidence that the Russian government hacked the DNC computers. Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t put it past them. It’s just that the FBI did what they usually do when they investigate anything involving Democrats. They don’t actually investigate. They don’t even go through the motions and try to pretend to investigate. So they never have examined the DNC’s servers. Because clearly the DNC, and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz have a lot to hide. And the FBI wanted to let them hide it
    * * *
    Does the name “Imran Awan” ring any bells?
    That case has gone under the radar, courtesy of the MSM and their fixation on anything that will drive actual real news off their pages.

  43. Art Deco said:

    Sounds like Putin is pulling a Nunes. He’s trying to get Meuller to give up what he knows.

    Defendants get to see exculpatory evidence. Sorry that bothers you.

    That isn’t what bothers me. What bothers me is related, but coming from the opposite direction.

    Right now the the judge overseeing the Manafort case, Ellis, is not standing for the standard Mueller answer of, “I can’t show you the amended appointment letter that gives me the authority to go after Manafort for financial crimes that preexisted the the 2016 campaign or any allegation of Trump/Russia collusion. It’s too highly classified. But trust me, I have the authority.”

    Dreeben even brought up conversations Mueller had with Rosenstein as the source of Mueller’s expanded authority. Naturally you can’t show a judge a conversation, and Ellis is not having it. There’s no such thing as “Just trust me, judge.”

    And here Mueller may be on the verge of trying the same stunt in Judge Friedrich’s court in the case of the three indicted Russian companies and the 13 indicted Russian individuals. “Trust me, judge, I have the evidence and the information they’re demanding in discovery. But I can’t produce it because it’s too highly classified to expose in open court. But, just trust me.”

    Again, there’s no such thing as “Just trust me evidence.”

    If Mueller tries to maintain this ridiculous posture the judge will have no choice but to dismiss the case. Before it comes to that Mueller may have to drop the indictment. You can not convict anyone, not even a bunch of Russkies, with secret evidence. Just as I am convinced Mueller can not indict Manafort on secret authority.

    If I’m right, it will be proof positive that Mueller never had a case. Not against the Russkies, not against Manafort, and not even against Flynn. They were just able to bankrupt Flynn more easily and force him to take a plea.o

    Oddly enough Flynn may yet have his conviction tossed out despite pleading guilty. In February, I believe, Judge Emmet Sullivan who is overseeing the case, demanded the prosecutors turn over all exculpatory evidence, invoking the Brady rule. Oddly, Flynn’s attorneys didn’t ask the judge to make that request. Sullivan did it on his own, because he was he judge in the Sen. Stevens case and the federal prosecutors withheld exculpatory evidence to get a conviction in a political trial. And Sullivan senses something hinky here.

    As do I. Earlier this year Mueller asked for a delay earlier this year (maybe if they put in some work instead of relying on intimidation, bleeding people dry financially, and threatening family members with fictional crimes they wouldn’t need all these delays). Guess what Mueller asked Judge Sullivan for on 1 May 2018. Yes, a second delay. And we already know there is exculpatory evidence even though they tried to play out the clock. When the FBI/DoJ was finally force to give up unredacted memos we learned Comey testified under oath that they didn’t think Flynn lied to them.

    More secret evidence! Except this time it’s favorable to Flynn.

    I take it Sullivan knows these people.

  44. AesopFan, the name is very familiar to me. Here’s the deal; the name is also familiar to the FBI. The same FBI that let Imran Awan’s wife flee the country despite carrying a large of amount of cash, well over the limit you can leave the country with, that she hadn’t declared.

    I’d love to listen as someone tries to explain how that can happen.

    But given how compliant the FBI was when they didn’t seize those DNC servers, when they wouldn’t be so understanding if it were you or I, I’m pretty sure I already know the answer. DWS was part of the “in crowd” as she was Obama’s hand picked head of the DNC.

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