Will Mueller be fired, and if so what would happen next?
The subject of this post is worthy of a tome. But I’m actually trying to go somewhere this afternoon (fancy that!) and so it will be a condensation, perhaps with a sequel to follow at some point.
Rumors are flying that President Trump is getting set to fire special counsel (similar to a special prosecutor) Mueller, and this is raising a ton of concern and controversy. Of course, although the discussion is of the possibility of Trump firing Mueller, Trump would not actually be empowered to do it himself, because the law requires it be done through the AG’s office (see this):
The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal.
There is a caveat, though: “the current special counsel regulations were promulgated by the Justice Department and have no underlying statutory basis.”
However—as President Nixon learned* during the event known as The Saturday Night Massacre (see this for more details)—such a firing would almost certainly be politically dangerous. In Nixon’s case, it took him some time to get someone in the Justice Department to refuse to resign, do Nixon’s bidding, and fire Archibald Cox. The entire episode was instrumental in ultimately sealing his fate, because the GOP turned on him.
Trump isn’t a popular figure in the GOP; he’s merely tolerated at this point. I think if he fired Mueller without clear and obvious and nearly unequivocal cause, enough of the GOP would turn on him that his position would become untenable. That prediction may be incorrect, but I’m making it. And I’m making still another prediction, which is that Trump won’t actually have Mueller fired.
No matter what party they are appointed to investigate, I have a non-partisan dislike of the entire idea of pecial prosecutors/counsels. Let Congress investigate, or the FBI if it must. But independent counsels are invitationss to fishing expeditions and the temptation of the power granted to the attorneys involved is just too great. The check on this power—the ability to fire for cause—can hardly ever be put into effect because the political hue and cry would be way too great.
We don’t want a chief executive with no checks on his power, but neither do we want an unelected special prosecutor with no checks on his power, and yet at this point it’s hard to trust Congress to check either of them.
[NOTE: *The law has been changed since Nixon’s time, but it’s not substantially different in most important respects. See this.]
I don’t get why trump should be so upset about how the investigation is going? Mueller has already destroyed any credibility he had by not resigning from the investigation with so much conflict of interest and his partisan hirings of only Clinton donating lawyers. president just let him stay, nothing he finds will harm you, because nothing he finds will be credible. If the deep state tries to impeach you out of bogus charges, i guarantee they will not be able to do to you what they did to Nixon, conservatives are smarter this time around, no way we will let them take down a beloved conservative president with bogus charges again. there will be millions of trump supporters rallying in DC if they dare to try something funny
Sessions should fire Mueller immediately for demonstrating his embrace of an unmistakable conflict of interest; 99% of the assistants he’s hired donated solely to Hillary’s campaign and are known lawfare hit men. In investigating Trump’s financial dealings, Mueller is engaged in an undeniable fishing expedition which demonstrates both misconduct and dereliction of duty.
Refraining from firing Mueller out of a desire to avoid the predictable political blowback plays perfectly into the hands of the Left.
Trump in trying to drain the swamp is faced with another ‘Gordian Knot’. Letting the chips fall where they may is the only path forward. Trump was not elected to fix and restore a moribund, corrupt beyond repair republic, he was elected to excise the cancer. The patient may indeed not survive the operation. But without that operation, it will not survive the metastasizing cancer.
As evidence that the leftist ‘cancer’ has metastasized, I offer:
It’s gotten to the point where, solely due to political correctness, Mohamad Noor is going to get away with a clear case of murder. So much for the rule of law.
Dave,
The LIV’s will accept Mueller’s ‘findings’ as entirely credible. The democrats will insist its proof and the MSM will incessantly support it.
If not impeachment, at the least all of this is calculated to lead to the election of another democrat President in 2020.
When Mueller was first appointed, I did some perusing on the web about him. After much reading, etc., I came to the conclusion that he was, at best, a partisan hack. There was one video in particular that so vividly displayed his leadership and professionalism (/sarc tag on high here) that I typed it up as I listened to it the second time. Here you go:
Representative Jim Jordan from the House Oversight Committee questioning FBI Director Mueller
circa June 13, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAN8P0dbzmc
Jordan: Director, uh, this past Sunday, Mr. Cummings, ranking member on the Oversight Committee said based on everything he’s seen regarding the IRS case, based on everything he’s seen, the case is solved. Is Mr. Cummings accurate in his assessment?
Mueller: Could you repeat that?
Jordan: “Based on everything I’ve seen,” according to Mr. Cummings, “the case is solved.” This is regarding the IRS scandal.
Mueller: Which case?
Jordan: The IRS Scandal.
Mueller: The IRS case?
Jordan: Yeah.
Mueller: No. The IRS case is currently under investigation. Yeah, and basically it’s just started.
Jordan: What can you tell us? I mean you started a month ago, what can you tell us about this. Have you found any, any, have you found the infamous two rogue agents? Have you discovered who those people are?
Mueller: Uh, I need just a second because it’s under investigation, I can’t give out any –
Jordan: Can you tell me some basics? Can you tell me how many agents investigating are assigned to the case.
Mueller: Uh. I may be able to do that but I’d have to get back to you.
Jordan: Can you tell me who the lead investigator is?
Mueller: Off the top of my head, no.
Jordan: This is the most important issue in front of the country the last six weeks, you don’t know who’s heading up the case? Who the lead investigator is?
Mueller: Uh, at this junction, no I do not know who the lead investigator is.
Jordan: Can you get that information to us? We’d like to know. We’d like to know how many people you’ve assigned to look into this situation.
Mueller: I have not had a recent briefing on it. I had a briefing on it when it was first initiated it, but I have not had a briefing
as to where we are.
Jordan: So you don’t know who’s leading the case?
Mueller: I do not know who is leading.
Jordan: Do you know if you’ve talked to any of the victims? Have you talked to any of the groups who were targeted by their government? Have you met with any of the Tea Party folks since May 14, 2013?
Mueller: I don’t know what the status of the interviews are by the team that’s on it.
Jordan: Would you expect that that’s been done?
Mueller: Uh, there, certainly at some point in time – and of course the investigation will be done – but generally at the outset of the investigation you get the documents so you can have –
Jordan: Don’t you normally talk to the victims?
…..
Jordan: So did the FBI contact any of these same victims? Were they contacted by the FBI prior to the investigation when these same groups were applying for tax exempt status? Did the FBI pay some of these individuals a visit?
Mueller: I do not know.
Jordan: Pardon?
Mueller: I do not know.
Jordan: You don’t know?
Mueller: I do not know.
Jordan: Some of them testified that they were paid a visit by the FBI….
……..
Jordan: I’m saying why were people targeted before the investigationeven started? Why were they contacted by the FBI?…..
Mueller: You’re asing questions about the details of the investigation
And on and on it goes.
If you look at the instructions Rosenstein gave Mueller it’s just a fishing license. Muller wasn’t tasked to investigate any crime. It’s like the infamous general warrant which is unconstitutional.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/g/general-warrant/
As I recall, even conservatives praised Loretta Lynch, Comey and Mueller as competent, straight-shooting, non-partisan types when Lynch, Comey and Mueller first emerged on the front pages in the last few years.
Then they turned out to be partisan hacks.
I think Trump is probably the only GOP president in decades who would be willing to go after Mueller and his aides on conflict of interest issues. Both Bushes ignored this and paid a big price.
I think if he fired Mueller without clear and obvious and nearly unequivocal cause, enough of the GOP would turn on him that his position would become untenable.
neo: Could be. At this point I have no idea.
After eight years of Obama, Benghazi, the IRS scandal, Obamacare lies, Hillary, her email server, the Clinton foundation, and then Trump’s 2016 campaign, I have no idea what politicians can and can’t get away with.
However, speaking as an American, I am damn proud how our politicians continue selflessly exploring new frontiers of mendacity, audacity and depravity.
“As I recall, even conservatives praised” huxley
One significant flaw on the right is the tendency of reportage on background, to be rather shallow. Blogs lack the time and resources to do so and in the MSM, those on the right either are blocked from digging or appear to have little interest in doing so. Eventually the truth comes out but long after they’ve been appointed.
I certainly bought into the universal praise for Comey’s ‘integrity’. Nor can I remember reading anything that even tangentially mentioned his long association with the Clintons. That for me would have been a red flag, so if I had read of it, I certainly would remember.
As for Lynch, any replacement for Holder, acceptable to Obama raised immediate doubts but again, little to nothing substantive.
By the time Mueller rolled around, any appointee acceptable to democrats is for me, immediately suspect. I never bought into reports of his integrity but took an attitude of wait and see.
When I read of the background of those he’s hiring, I knew he was a dirty, unprincipled slime ball.
I agree with neo as to the predictable political blowback that will arise if Trump fires Mueller. It will be presented as absolute proof of Trump’s guilt.
I think many congressional RINOs are deeply hopeful that enough political cover will amass as to enable them to vote for Trump’s impeachment and conviction. Many would not be able to fully hide their happiness at the opportunity to do so.
I am back supporting trump. It’s hard to be mad at him for long and not root for his success when trump is a saint when being compared to all these corrupted creatures of the black lagoon.
GB: Glad I’m not the only person who noticed that!
By the hiring he has done Mr. Mueller has already tainted any results that the investigation might release. While LIVs – democrats – will automatically accept non-Trump results any thinking person will not. Of course that means millions of the uneducated attendees from diploma mills will lap it up.
There is no need for the President to fire the Special Persecutor. Why stop your enemies when they are making mistakes? Instead, President Trump should have fun with it. As he has been doing.
Better fire up the Art of the Deal bribes, Junior + Trum.
president just let him stay, nothing he finds will harm you, because nothing he finds will be credible.
Scooter Libby.
If you can’t find dirt on the President, kill his staff and clan instead. It’s a common guerilla and anti terrorist trick. Kill them from the legs up, not from the head down.
huxley Says:
July 22nd, 2017 at 4:19 pm
As I recall, even conservatives praised Loretta Lynch, Comey and Mueller as competent, straight-shooting, non-partisan types when Lynch, Comey and Mueller first emerged on the front pages in the last few years.
Then they turned out to be partisan hacks.
Which is why people didn’t hear Ymar jumping on that band wagon.
“We don’t want a chief executive with no checks on his power, but neither do we want an unelected special prosecutor with no checks on his power, and yet at this point it’s hard to trust Congress to check either of them.” – Neo
Right. Who has credibility? Who has trust?
Who to trust more, Mueller or trump? Or the folks in Congress?
If someone looks like they might not give the result we’d like, they must be a “partisan hack” or some kind of “enemy”.
Strange how that works.
.
Of course, who wants a Special Counsel to have unlimited scope?
At the same time, who wants a President who cannot even handle a simple firing decently, and who contributes much to the mess around him, giving his enemies plenty of fodder to fight with, driving focus so far off the agenda, there might was well not be one at all.
It is not just about unlimited powers in the POTUS. It is the kowtowing to his personal indulgences and running cleanup behind him that is the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo
Like a wayward child, if there is no feedback loop, the problems continue, and, encouraged and emboldened, worsen.
The more his “base” and the GOP continues to “blindly” support him through this, the more credibility and trust is lost in trump and them.
Like a wayward child, if there is no feedback loop, the problems continue, and, encouraged and emboldened, worsen.
You seem to be implying that this is a description of Trump and not his enemies in the press and on the left.
Even Bush did not have to deal with the hate and mendacity of his enemies like this. The left is burning bridges they may regret.
In this late hour I can trust only God. Hopefully He can find ways to resolve this crisis without civil war or turning USA into banana republic. Too much is on stake.
If someone looks like they might not give the result we’d like, they must be a “partisan hack” or some kind of “enemy”.
Big Maq: And if someone doesn’t take your line, they must be a person who calls out others falsely as “partisan hacks.”
Whatever Trump’s faults may be, they do not prevent his opponents from being partisan hacks.
Embrace the healing power of “and”!
Fire a few Inspector Generals and be done with this perpetual baby hunt.
Wait… Fire the special counsel who is investigating everything but the innuendo, invention, and speculation that influenced the election and are sincerely trying to abort Trump in the third trimester of his administration.
The latest from Andrew McCarthy: Trump Has Himself, Not Sessions, to Blame for the Limitless Mueller Investigation. It’s a long, detailed piece, but the last paragraph sums it up well:
“‘Like a wayward child, if there is no feedback loop, the problems continue, and, encouraged and emboldened, worsen.’ – BM
You seem to be implying that this is a description of Trump and not his enemies in the press and on the left.” – Mike K
Interesting juxtaposition.
.
The press has a feedback loop – it is eyeballs/ears/clicks and advertising dollars. They are in a competitive marketplace. We all can choose which news (infotainment) sources we consume. They rarely continue to publish content that isn’t likely already in demand.
The office of the POTUS is entirely different. Even though he has approval ratings and possibly future elections to be concerned about (if he wants to be), trump is locked in for four years.
.
Now just because there are many citizens who choose to listen to what the msm is offering, and we all think the msm is over the top and has it out for trump, doesn’t mean we have to defend where trump has been foolish, or unethical.
That’s the problem. We let ourselves get so distracted and focused on how the msm and the left are biased, unfair, blindly supporting their side or their cause, that we lose sight of the problems on “our” side.
.
Looking at the numbers, I don’t think many are being convinced that all is going swimmingly with trump.
In fact, there is some indication that trump’s continuing down this path is losing GOP support, with significant numbers abandoning the GOP – artificially inflating trump’s support among Republicans in the polls.
trump is FAR from “Winning!!! so much, we’d be bored with the Winning!!!”, and, ultimately, isn’t that what we elected him for and expect of him? Isn’t that what he sold us, as “Only I can fix”?
.
In a democracy we minimally need >50% of Congress to get the changes we want. That takes persuading beyond a core of supporters.
To expand beyond his base, trump (and we) need credibility and trust.
trump is losing it by the day.
We lose credibility and trust by supporting/defending actions that are foolish or ethically questionable.
trump won’t change unless we say he needs to.
He won’t listen to anyone else (and maybe not us either – but have we tried?).
Congress has had a free ride since Obama and really since 2006 when Rahm Emmanuel managed to recruit enough centrist Democrats to elect a majority in a war weary America. The Democrats doubled down on the pathology of the Mortgage Backed Securities and the economy crashed. Ironically, the Democrats who created the crash were able to blame the hapless Republicans.
The same phenomenon is building up to the same result in student loans and auto loans.
“The press has a feedback loop — it is eyeballs/ears/clicks and advertising dollars. They are in a competitive marketplace. ”
Maybe that is why Target is in trouble and ESPN is laying off people. The market may not be buying what they are selling. TV has been feeding the fire and has reaped some benefit. That might be near an end. Did you see the poll about what people care about vs what the media talks about ?
https://ricochet.com/442941/americans-care-vs-media-cares/
Russia is at the bottom.
The Democrats doubled down on the pathology of the Mortgage Backed Securities and the economy crashed. Ironically, the Democrats who created the crash were able to blame the hapless Republicans.
They get paid more out of power than in power, since their connections bought them MPAA access.
trump won’t change unless we say he needs to.
The whole point of America electing a king is so that they don’t have to worry about things like that. If people thought that they could hold the United States President “accountable”, they are overestimating their own individual worth as a citizen. They don’t have the power, once they have given the power to DC.
It was up to the Israeli tribes to decide on forgoing Jehovah as their King. But once a King was appointed to them, Saul, they didn’t get to choose David or choose to reject Saul, that was no longer up to them.
@huxley – interesting point.
Either the world has changed around us, or I was completely blind all this time.
It used to be, I thought people meant what they complained about in the dems and the msm. That they really were disgusted with and hated the tactics the dems used.
Things like “drag a dollar bill through a trailer park and you never know what you might find” kind of stuff to discredit people who are involved with issues or concerns relating to ethical behavior of our POTUS – just to name one.
Nowadays, it seems that, if trump or his team declares someone an enemy, a great many pile on the discredit bandwagon.
Heck, even Sen., now AG, Sessions seems a target.
.
Rather reminds one of this poem, by Pastor Martin Niemé¶ller…
“First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me”
.
trump himself hired the man who hired and missioned Mueller. Before that Mueller was appointed and served under a GOP POTUS.
Not ready to call Mueller a partisan hack until we have real evidence. The evidence is not necessarily who he hires, what he investigates (within the confines of his widely scoped mission), and what his findings are (or what we fear them to be).
.
It seems to come down to who is more trustworthy, more credible? Mueller or trump?
As I’ve been arguing of late, trump has lost loads of trust and credibility with the public.
He won’t, in the near term, win the credibility war, by trying to argue that Mueller is somehow untrustworthy (the discredit campaign). Maybe not in the long term either, unless trump changes.
If he ups and fires Mueller, that would be like throwing gas on a sizable log fire.
An action like that, without a solid violation of some sort, will scream out that trump is looking to hide something.
@Ann – thanks for the link.
Trum is “winning” in so far with his EOs, but that is the same as with Hussein. It doesn’t take much to reverse an EO. And it doesn’t take much for the Deep State to sabotage them, ignore it, and come up with counter measures. DC patronage systems may take years to work up a homo ring of sexual predators, but once it is setup, no Republican or Demoncrat congress critter can block the blackmail.
If Trum is too good at “winning”, then his clan will be taken for a ride. If the clan is too good at winning, then their associates and others will be tied into the System with a blackmail setup, as in Cuba.
Most of the reason for Hussein opening up trade with Cuba, was so sex tourists from the West could go there for illegal underage prostitution for little girls and boys. Of course, intel networks would find that very useful to get info on people, turning them into agents.
Sergey Says:
July 23rd, 2017 at 3:02 pm
In this late hour I can trust only God. Hopefully He can find ways to resolve this crisis without civil war or turning USA into banana republic. Too much is on stake.
The whole point of the civil war was the vengeance taken on people who used the Gospel to enslave humans, contrary to divine laws and commandments. Lucifer was thrown out of the Divine Counsel merely because he promised to redeem all of mankind, irregardless of free will and moral agency. As with Jeremiah, lots and lots of people were warned about the coming US Civil War 1. Just as many people here and elsewhere were warned about US Civil War 2.
When they refuse to repent, change their ways, and recognize that they are criminals under divine law, their punishment is set into stone.
The wicked are often used to punish the wicked, since in the Divine COunsel this would be called “killing two birds with one stone”. The innocent are punished along with the guilty, since for an age and a system that rewards immortality to the worthy, it doesn’t really matter what they do to you on this Earth to test you. There’s always “next time”. If you get punished for somebody else’s evil on this Earth, you’ll probably be allotted karma points next phase over. It’s not a closed system justice like human justice is, where if someone dies, nothing else can be done. People can be resurrected as many times as need be, to reward or to punish. In that open ended system of justice, the very concept itself is inhuman to people’s understanding.
The Divine Counsel, made up of high level divine entities like Jehovah or the other Jehovah, decides in a small group setting what should be done, and often times it is the entities known as angels who promise the punishments and which is accepted by the Most High. It was written in the (fictional) story of Job, as well as various accounts concerning the Divine Counsel fooling Israel tribes by putting a lying spirit into the mouths of the prophets who advised the king based upon what their god wanted them to do. That ended up killing the king, as was the original intent.
Most of the powerful prophets of Jehovah were once in the Divine Counsel, it is one of the unknown stipulations for why certain mortals are chosen. Their spirits had a “pre existence” before they assumed mortal avatar form. Some of these spirits were ordained and created, or were endowed with power, even before they became human. They lose all their memories, which is attested to by various reincarnation myths and scientific research into children who have memories of another life before 4 (then they forget).
Mueller has no credibility, but he doesn’t need it while he has the power of the state behind him. So if he issues some outrageous findings at the end of the process, it will be a crisis because it gives license for everyone to choose sides.
Everyone will believe what they want, and act on their beliefs with the courage of their convictions.
That’s how you get a new civil war.
huxley Says:
As I recall, even conservatives praised Loretta Lynch, Comey and Mueller as competent, straight-shooting, non-partisan types when Lynch, Comey and Mueller first emerged on the front pages in the last few years.
Then they turned out to be partisan hacks.
Um, no.
Obama never appointed a cabinet member who wasn’t a political hack, and many people said so repeatedly.
Um, no.
Matt_SE: “Um” is perhaps my least favorite online bit o’ snark. In my experience it translates as “weak dubious point ahead.”
Really and truly, there were conservatives in print, on Fox, online etc. who assured their audience that Lynch, Comey and Mueller were decent, non-partisan types.
That those conservatives didn’t comprise all conservatives is my bad, I suppose. So amend that to “some conservatives.”
As I’ve been arguing of late, trump has lost loads of trust and credibility with the public.
Big Maq: I don’t know and I hesitate to judge. “Loads” is a big word, though inexact.
Trump has dropped in the polls and I’m sure he has lost some Trump-come-lately voters. Whether that is particularly significant, given Trump’s majorities in Congress and rock-solid support among his base is up for grabs.
I got Trump’s chances wrong in 2016. I don’t buy the notion Trump is playing n-dimensional chess but I do believe he is addressing today’s America in a way I don’t fully understand.
So I’m doing more observing than judging.
Dave Says:
July 22nd, 2017 at 2:03 pm
I don’t get why trump should be so upset about
How is Dave still sitting here with his teeth intact after basically declaring war on every Tea party member here, by talking about how the Teabaggers wanted to abolish O care so people would die. The point of death panels was to make O care kill them off so the proponents of single care, like Bag head Dave, wouldn’t need to get their hands dirty.
At least the usual sorts here went over to Breitbart, when they couldn’t handle the Old Guard idea of Republican ideals in the 2015-2016 election period.
If the deep state tries to impeach you out of bogus charges, i guarantee they will not be able to do to you what they did to Nixon, conservatives are smarter this time around,
The Deep State charge slander libel that the Tea Party were deviant baggers and racist red necks worked.
You guarantee?
How about you guarantee Trum puts Hillary in Jail if he becomes President.
“So if (Mueller) issues some outrageous findings at the end of the process, it will be a crisis because it gives license for everyone to choose sides.” – Matt SE
“Outrageous findings” will certainly be in the eye of the beholder.
I expect much of the “conservative” media, like the msm, will be “choosing sides”, and will claim whatever findings as “outrageous”, in the blue vs red game.
We don’t have to choose for the sake of opposition to one side or the other.
But, agree in one sense… that it is a bad spot to not have anyone with any real credibility, in our own eyes, to trust.
Not the Potus
Not Mueller
Not any in the media
Not AG Sessions
Not SCOTUS and the lower US Federal courts
Not Congress
Not (fill in the blank)…
Every d*mn one is evidently a “partisan hack” and cannot be trusted to work in a good faith effort to be even somewhat objective.
How exactly did obamacare killed one person? The problem with tea party members claiming obamacare has killed anyone is as vague and baseless as Blm saying police target young black teens. The math simply doesn’t add up. People tuned them out because they have never tried step by step explaining slowly how obamacare lead to deaths, no real life example, no statistics to back up, as ridiculous as the “can you hear me” scam hoax. Can choose your doctor is way better than can’t afford to see any doctor at all. When conservatives claimed democrats use illegals or dead people to vote for them I have never seen any evidence produced by conservatives nor the most basic explaination on how to go about doing so.
I love free market but have conservatives in America ever considered that the healthcare system in America where health insurance is tied to your job as part of benefits is a very communism concept and the root of the healthcare problem? Hong Kong was named by Milton friedman the freest economy in the world, we have universal healthcare, healthcare is not something anyone worries about since it’s so cheap and efficient. All the problems conservatives believe single payer payer has are mostly imaginary.
i worry because I have a pre existing condition and I worry I might lose my insurance if I ever get laid off. I was 28 when I was diagnosed of an auto immune disease while being active and completely healthy.
Healthcare is not strictly a commercial entity, it is a combination of commercial and social program, you can’t just allow insurance companies to just maximise their profits by simply denying services to people with pre existing conditions by charging them outrageously expensive premium that no one can afford
I don’t care about obamacare itself, I don’t buy insurance from the exchange, I don’t give a darn about tax exemptions or subsidies or anything, I only care about the pre existing conditions protections, tea party wants to repeal that completely means they are my enemies and they don’t give a darn about people like me who worries to no end that We may lose our insurance someday.
Donald Trump won the primary primarily because he promised to keep the pre-existing condition protections in place while Ted Cruz refused to make that promise. Many moderates and independents voted for Trump based on the fact that he had made a promise not to repeal the pre-existing condition protections.
If the republicans dare to gut the protections, look for the democrats winning everything in a landslide at 2020 paving the way for single payer. If Conservatives don’t compromise be ready to lose everything.
OK, Maq, aside from steering clear of the middle-of-the-night tweets – which we all pretty much agree often don’t go as planned and don’t come off as presidential – what is your magic plan of dealing with a hostile press and social media that was 100% bound and determined to destroy anyone that was not Hillary who won the 2016 Presidential election? No president, ever, not Bush The Younger, not anyone, has ever had to deal with a 24/7 barrage of hallucinatory fiction and malicious misrepresentation presented nonstop in the MSM and social media. The same MSM that wet itself and licked Obama’s toes for more than eight years (and vilified and attacked anyone who even suggested digging into Obama’s obvious shady past) literally works 24 hours a day to ferret out anything it can use against Trump. It started with blatant misrepresentation and went straight on to outright fiction. There is no detail in the life of Trump, his family, and anyone who has been brought into his inner circle, which has not been twisted around in an ongoing slow-motion coup.
You like to believe that it’s because Trump is A) guilty as charged and B) stupid and crass, but the truth is, had YOU been elected, they’d have done the same thing to you as they destroy you, your spouse, your kids and everyone you brought on board during and after the campaign to do the dirty work of undoing the evil perpetrated by a sack of sh$t bast@rd that the MSM and LIV left still think was a perfect messiah. (Oh yes, and you’re also under sniper fire from the cellar beasts whose jobs are the ones at risk by anything that even hints at “swamp draining.”)
I don’t think Trump is without reproach, but I recognize that we are at a point in time when the institutions of the left – which still own the media, education, and most cogs of the government – had no choice but to remove the threat of a non-left president. A real politician would have bowed and scraped into Demo Lite by now; a well-intentioned white knight outsider – like perhaps you or I – would have given up. (Or are you willing to see this happen to you and everyone in your life? Really? That tough, huh?) Trump may be everything I said he was a year and a half ago, but I am hard-pressed to name anyone who would have stood up this long.
Go ahead, support the left. Bring Trump down and let the left know that they really can ruin anyone they want and have their way in the end, even if the American public is sick of their sh$t and voted non-left. You’ll love how this turns out.
Nixon resigned after Goldwater told him he had lost the support of Republicans. Had they remained firm in their support of Nixon, he couldn’t have been impeached– but what would the consequences have been to the Republican congressmen?
They paid a heavy price anyway.
Now some/much of Republican support is illusionary. So the Mueller investigation is political. If he finds anything that can be called a “crime”, it will be hard for Republicans to stave off impeachment– especially when a percentage of Republicans are already secretly gloating over the prospects.
Principle is a scarce commodity in Washington, and the scarcity didn’t start with the election of President Donald Trump.
Within days of Mueller’s appointment, articles were circulating about his likely approach to bring Trump down. My computer screen was wet with the liberals salivating at the prospects.
So, if the investigation is political, his dismissal, also political, is just as justified.
But since the narrative is everything, it’s unlikely the squishy Republicans would withstand the onslaught.
“Hong Kong was named by Milton friedman the freest economy in the world, we have universal healthcare, healthcare is not something anyone worries about since it’s so cheap and efficient. All the problems conservatives believe single payer payer has are mostly imaginary.” – Dave
Rather far off topic.
Anyway, not all single payer systems are set up the same way.
What is it about HK’s single payer that makes it more efficient than say the UK’s NHS, or the systems in Canada?
Also, how long has it been single payer?
Please ponder and pick up on these at the next healthcare article.
.
BTW, pre-existing conditions is a challenge. If there were not Medicaid, I suspect a great many would take a similar position to yours, as it seems age itself is a pre-existing condition.
@Kyndyll – a few things:
1) I don’t buy the idea that the “barrage of hallucinatory fiction” would be the same if we had one of the other candidates nominated for GOP Lead and won. trump is an escalation, and this is the response. Not saying it is right or justified either.
2) And, I don’t think they all (or any) would have “bowed and scraped into Demo Lite by now”, especially not Cruz.
3) As for “Demo Lite”, let’s just say there are 3+ more years for trump to show he is a conservative. Things like hiring a 2008 obama fundraiser and Wall Street insider looks to me to be more of the “Demo Lite” kind of behavior. Definitely not “drain the swamp” kind of action.
4) That the msm are biased and unfair, and whatever other traits we want to claim of them does not address the question about Mueller.
5) Never said trump is “guilty as charged”. He seems to be acting rather guilty – I may have said that.
6) I don’t support the left. Never have. Sorry, maybe for a month or two in high school when I started exploring political philosophy, but found it really didn’t match what I saw in people.
7) Ad Hominems. This is a good example of the kinds of things folks face when they want to point out that maybe some of the problems are self inflicted by our POTUS and that his approach is not accomplishing what he promised, let alone the potential for much more downside if this carries on, or the ethical concerns that keep bubbling up.
I am an immigrant from Hong Kong, everything I know about the Hong Kong healthcare system is from personal experience based on having a father who is the second youngest of 10+ siblings. My father is in his early 60s but i have seen it all since some of my uncles and aunts are in 90s and 80s
None of my uncles have insurance, because there simply is no need for any sort of health insurance.
an Uncle was diagnosed of some sort of intestine cancer after having black stools and mucus substance on the stools. no waiting period for tests or anything. When the results came back, the surgery was scheduled a few weeks later, no chemo, and total cost: $1000+HKD, around $100 something USD.
another Uncle fell and hit his head, perhaps the collapse was a result of a stroke, I didn’t ask my aunt the exact details. He has been hospitalized since new year, all the charges have been reimbursed and his family is now receiving $1000+ assistance money, his family lives in government housing and the few hundred dollar per month rent is waived too.
It is hard to explain to Americans how healthcare is such a non issue in other countries. If you are sick you go to the emergency room, no exact charges or anything, no one has ever worried about the fee being not affordable.
I know huffpost is left wing propaganda but most of what the article below says is true.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-lewis/does-hong-kong-have-the-w_b_299907.html
“Principle is a scarce commodity in Washington, and the scarcity didn’t start with the election of President Donald Trump.” – Brian E
Agree.
But, if there is no feedback loop, no accountability, then are we also not part of that problem?
Did trump not promise he’d “drain the swamp”?
Yet, we’ve seen a string of lies related to this very issue coming from trump or his team.
Mueller may have “too wide” a scope, but
a) it was defined by trump’s own hired man
b) presumably he, Rosenstein, has some say in interpreting the scope limits
c) had trump and team been more transparent on the whole russian issue (or even just took a hard stance on russian interference) vs a goalpost moving storyline, trump would have much more sympathy for a limited scope.
d) now for him to argue limiting the scope and inquiring on pardons for family and friends, well, should we be concerned that there is something there we don’t know about?
It comes down to who to trust more: Mueller or trump?
If there IS something, it will be messy no matter what.
AND, I doubt any of the trump cheerleaders will believe any of it, or would excuse it away.
What probably matters most is what those in Congress make of it.
And, trump hasn’t exactly been making friends over there, let alone helping much to move the GOP agenda forward.
“… no waiting period for tests or anything. When the results came back, the surgery was scheduled a few weeks later, no chemo, and total cost: $1000+HKD, around $100 something USD.
…
It is hard to explain to Americans how healthcare is such a non issue in other countries.” – Dave
Might be hard pressed to find that kind of turnaround in Canada or the UK.
I have colleagues who have told me of a very different picture of those single payer systems. What is reduced in cash price is more than made up by other factors, one of which is waiting time.
Dave:
An article from 2015 on Hong Kong’s system:
Dave:
Here’s a piece very critical of Hong Kong’s system. It’s anecdotal, but it certainly doesn’t paint a great picture, and note what it says about wait times.
It is hard to explain to Americans how healthcare is such a non issue in other countries. If you are sick you go to the emergency room, no exact charges or anything, no one has ever worried about the fee being not affordable.
It is hard to explain to human dogs that think they can clone their country by imposing political and legal Dominion wherever they know, Empire boy.
There is no detail in the life of Trump, his family, and anyone who has been brought into his inner circle, which has not been twisted around in an ongoing slow-motion coup.
Plenty of people here said electing Trum was good idea and that the media would hold him accountable, so no danger of tyranny.
What was your position there? Pretty artificial if it was the latter.
As for Trum getting push back from the Deep State, people like me already predicted that as far back as 2015. In the parade of band wagon bullsh victory parties and “NOt Tired of Winning Yet” banner slogans, people don’t like remembering inconvenient truths.
Here’s the problem, Mac. You continue to write as if you expect that treating the left nicely will result in a positive outcome, and that, if opposed by someone nicer, more professional and more polite than Trump, everything would have been fine. But that’s simply not true. We’re not in a high school debate against a rival that is interested in polite discourse, that left to its own devices will play nice and be a good sport. We’re dealing with an extremist faction that not only wants to win all battles, it wants to ruin anyone and anything that opposes it – an extremist faction that has all of the thugs, all of the youth-indoctrination facilities, most of the media with the loudest voices and virtually all of the entrenched, unelected government power on its side.
There were any number of warnings in recent times that things are different now than they were in some bygone time, but the ones that hit home for me pre-date Trump and revolve around the orgy of revenge that accompanied the far left and their gay marriage crusade.
I have been arguing for gay marriage since the early 1990s; details of my stance on the topic are not relevant to this conversation. But at no point did I ever support the idea that individuals should be publically ruined for their improper beliefs on the matter, and frankly, until the left won, I didn’t even realize what a terrible winner they had become. When I saw the destruction of Brendan Eich for donating $1,000 of his own money, eight years before the fact, to an anti-gay marriage public ballot issue, I was greatly taken aback. And when I observed that the most important matters to be taken care of in the early days of gay marriage legalization were hunting down and ruining small businesses, primarily owned by Christians, in what were obviously pre-planned setups targeting them, I was even more angry. The far left not only wants its way and stomps people that oppose it, it cannot even tolerate that some people exist who harbor improper thoughts. I will not tolerate thought-police activity from anything. I am chilled by the left, which has not just embraced thought-police behaviors and attitudes but wrapped itself with a self-righteous conviction that since they are right and anyone who thinks differently are not just wrong but also evil. They literally believe that’s OK to hurt – physically, financially, legally and otherwise – people who have wrong ideas, and believe that since they’re “on the right side of history” they have moral obligation and justication to use any means necessary to ruin people.
It against that backdrop that the US people voted for a most unlikely candidate for President: Trump. We are so sick of the far left that we even voted for Trump, FFS.
We have no idea what Trump would do if he weren’t dragging thousands of pounds of weight with every step. There was no honeymoon. There was never a moment in which lifer politicos on the GOP side could reach out to shake hands, much less embrace him, without putting their next election in jeopardy. Trump was attacked in the media from the moment it appeared likely that he had won and nothing he has said or done, no matter how innocuous or correct it was, has made a difference. In fact, it almost seems like any time he really rises to an occasion, the MSM digs up something new (and no less imaginary) to attack him with, so it can bury whatever positive thing happened. As we know, 80-90% of media exposure on the subject of Trump is negative, much of it focused on garbage that is known to be literally made up, old-school USSR-style.
The escalation is because Trump fights back. He may well be fighting back because he’s a loudmouthed assh@t and it’s his nature to fight back, rather than because of any noble conservative sentiment, but the fact remains: the left is at a point where it will destroy anything that opposes it, and it will escalate as needed to get the job done. We’re seeing crazy stuff now because it’s had to escalate far beyond anything ever previously necessary to keep lifer GOP politicos in line – which didn’t take much, because they’re self-interested quisling puppies who are more concerned about the next election than anything else. It wouldn’t have taken much to make them sit down and shut up this time, either.
In a sense, the left has already won. By hampering and neutering Trump with all of the nonsense, forward momentum on conservative issues was never possible. The GOP members of congress wish Trump didn’t exist – he’s bad for their political futures – so they are doing nothing to help. Frankly, at this point, the main damage that would happen should Trump get removed on what is (pun only slightly intended) trumped-up nonsense is further empowerment of a violent and vengeful political juggernaut that considers you and me an enemy. That’s bad and we should avoid it. Plus, unless you’re as naive as an overly sheltered kindergartener, you must realize that one second after Trump is gone, they’ll find new crimes for Pence, to make sure he is just as crippled from the moment he inherits any nominal power.
I have turned my back on my lefty left friends because I find them to be disgusting. Just as we wait for those imaginary moderate Muslims to call out and oppose the extremists in their midst, we can wait forever for “moderate” lefties to speak up and say, “Hey, wait a minute, that’s not right. We’re becoming what we said we were against a generation ago.” We can wait forever because we won’t hear it. Any actual moderate lefties are silently staring at their shoes with zipped lips, knowing what would happen to them if they spoke up. The more perceptive of them may have realized that they now know what it’s like to be in the general population of Germany circa mid to late 1930s.
first of all, she was complaining as a millionaire if not billionaire I-Banker who has a higher expectation for her quality of life than the peasant class most of us belong to, the government funded hospitals were never meant to be used by the privileged like her.
for the regular people, an affordable option that will keep us alive while sparing us of millions dollars of debts is sufficient enough.
Another critical term in the article is “Medical Tourist from Mainland China”. Hong Kong’s system was running perfectly when the system was solely for Hong Kong citizens instead of the whole China. It was only after the supreme court of HK granted birthright citizenship to HK born anchor babies with non HK citizen Chinese ethical background parents that has overloaded the system, so many main landers just come to HK and have their babies here and sneak out the hospital the next day with the bills left unpaid.
Its not our healthcare system that is problematic but all these China tourists from all over china taking advantage of our laws that prevent ER from turning away patients with needs of emergency medical care that has created all these problems. you are talking about a tiny city of 8 millions locals taking up the burden of providing quality and affordable healthcare to 15 billions of people. However, despite having all these problems, it is still light years better than America
What should happen is that about six months from now, the House Judiciary Committee should call Mueller in, and ask, “Mr. Mueller, have you found any evidence of collusion between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government?” “No, Mr. Chairman, but we’re still looking into Mr. Trump’s finances in 2008.” “Well, Mr. Mueller, since that doesn’t have anything to do with what you were hired for, we’re not going to fund your operation any more. So if you’d like to continue to work pro bono from your own office, that’s fine, but you’re off the federal payroll. Have a nice day!”
The math simply doesn’t add up.
Waco 2 execution math, Waco 1 execution math, Ruby Ridge execution math, adds up quite well. Just the color doesn’t fit, so you must acquit, is the Black Theology bullsh. Maybe you aren’t up to task on that particular American His Story looking over from the Empire of Hong Kong.
Healthcare for your mother will be the last thing on your mind, once you face the reality of American Death Squads, which will awaken due to a number of factors. BLM vs Dallas is merely a foretaste, an appetizer. The real militias haven’t gone active or rogue yet. When they do, you being an O care death panel fer will be somewhat not so low on the List.
People think I’m weak, and prone to compromise, because I wouldn’t suck up to their Boy King Trum. Leftists thought the same thing, until they start arguing with all of you and leave me alone for some reason, after they get the message that Hussein isn’t on their side any more and that I know who Hussein is to them. Little do they all know that I’m way ahead of them strategically, by about 10 years.
Leftists like to treat the Tea Party as a punching post, because the Tea Party is moderate and is a fan of compromise, even if it means dealing with the IRS and Hussein. Brainwashed Leftist Hong Kong and Iranian pick ups like Dave, is in for a world of surprise on this matter if they think the Leftist propaganda about Americans was entirely true.
Other than Some boy’s initial post to me, he has treated all of you as the Left treats Bush II, a walking punching bag for their entertainment. There is a reason behind me. They can deal with your logic. They can’t deal with Ymar style crazy though. They know it, and soon the Alt Right will figure out that the benefit of learning ALinsky isn’t that it makes them immune to the weaknesses of Alinsky.
It just gives the Left reason to mobilize the other 50% of their true power. If that isn’t enough to trigger Civil War 2, then the shadow groups and Deep State will mobilize 2% of their power, above the .5-1% they have now going. They are slow to move, but when they do, markets on a national scale tend to “collapse”. Whether anybody’s mother or family is going to be treated well in a Civil War… well why don’t you read about the last one in the US, back when Americans pissed off some god (again). Plenty of those “great clan healthcare” stories that will riddle your heart with excessive glee for the State taking care of your clan. The State took so good care of the Irish and Scott tribes after all, plus the Indians and the black boys.
Dave Says:
July 24th, 2017 at 9:00 am
i worry because I have a pre existing condition and I worry I might lose my insurance if I ever get laid off. I was 28 when I was diagnosed of an auto immune disease while being active and completely healthy.
All the more reason why weaklings will die first in the next war.
And your personal matters isn’t reason for the rest of us to sacrifice our lives just so your Clan can benefit, boy. If you want to fight about it on a political level… well, okay, some of us are Already Going to Fight DC by killing them, so a few more to the LIst won’t even make much of a difference.
I only care about the pre existing conditions protections, tea party wants to repeal that completely means they are my enemies and they don’t give a darn about people like me who worries to no end that We may lose our insurance someday.
Thanks, I’ll add a note to the list. Since you will be categorized as the easy to break collaborator that will do anything once their life is threatened.
The Tea Party was your last, best hope for peace. Everybody else afterwards will be either Ymars, Trum,s Alt Right, or Ctrl Left BLM assassins.
But at no point did I ever support the idea that individuals should be publically ruined for their improper beliefs on the matter, and frankly, until the left won, I didn’t even realize what a terrible winner they had become.
Just goes to show that the supporters of the Alt Right are even dumber than the Leftists are supposed to be. They fall for too many cons and then seek to lecture others about what the Right Strategy is.
They can lecture the moderates and pacifists here, but I’d like to see what happens when they try it on me.
It is very clear Ymar Sakar is a racist.
I have already apologized for the ill advised use of the term “tea-baggers” If you had the patient to scroll down a little further you might have caught it. I am sorry, my English was not good, I used that term because it was a popular term online to refer to tea party member, I have already said I am sorry for using a term I didn’t fully understand.
I lent you a helping hand in defeating witch Hillary by voting for Trump when most of your self righteous conservatives chose to sit by letting Hillary win so don’t you dare call me a dog. You lose people like me, your fight to protect America from becoming full blown communism will be over.
which didn’t take much, because they’re self-interested quisling puppies who are more concerned about the next election than anything else.
Kyn I see no reason why the GOp has to be quisling puppies while people like you get to support Leftist agendas like Gaystapo marriage, and get the jail free card of Hillary Clinton.
If you thought it was a good idea, perhaps the GOP E also thinks it is a good idea and thus “equally” beneficial. But it is easier to see the enemy in Congress than the enemy in your mirror.
I have already apologized for the ill advised use of the term “tea-baggers” If you had the patient to scroll down a little further you might have caught it.
A real apology means you promise never to do it and correct the damage you did.
So far, you’re still pushing the Tea Party wants to kill those with pre conditions, and have made it a personal vendetta. And you want to call me a “racist”, Leftist pit boy. You have no idea what is going on here, and never will at this rate.
To be clear, there are some people, like Ymar and Trum, who are normally don’t act crazy, but the moment you try to push them where they don’t want to go, like calling them “racist” or some other attack you Think Works on Normal People, something goes off
I lent you a helping hand in defeating witch Hillary by voting for Trump when most of your self righteous conservatives chose to sit by letting Hillary win so don’t you dare call me a dog.
IF Hong Kong healthcare is good for you, great. Why did you ever Leave Hong Kong (oooo, a question best left unanswered right).
Empire boy thinks he lent me a helping hand, haha.
I’m not an Alt Right leader, although I forsaw the need for such an anti Left coalition in 2007. Now it is 2017 and people think I’m the one behind the strategy and the times. It is more like people merely “caught up to me”.
I call you a dog because Empire boys like you are Dogs of the State. And if you are actually Chinese or whatever you think you are in Hong Kong, you would understand that phrasing from a specific language.
jesus, why should i help you fight your enemies if you don’t give a darn about my problems. What is in it for me? tell me why do you think it is fair for the insurance companies to deny me coverages after i have paid into the system for so many years? it was Rand Paul who said that people should be penalized when they made the choice not to buy insurance early. I have been paying in the system since 22, why do tea party contradicts themselves by at one end saying people who chose not to buy insurance early deserve a penalty when he decides to buy later but on the other end they think that insurance companies should have the uninfringed right to pick and choose only healthy people to insure, including those who have been paying in the system nonstop. that is not free market, that is betrayal of someone who has been a contributor of society and abandoning him and retract the contract once he got sick, a time when he needs help the most. How is that in principle different from VA letting vets die?
33% of Trum’s support comes from betrayed Republican and disaffected conservatives. 33% from Demoncrats who would normally vote Clinton and KKK and Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy and Hussein. 30% from non political new generation who took the Red Pill on various sites.
One of the reasons why I didn’t get all hot and passionate about the Alt Right is the part that came from the Demoncrats. Who are now your allies, whether you like it or not.
Since I made it a pattern to hate Demoncrats, no matter their excuses, since 2007, I could no more break my principle than Hussein could stop Playing Golf While Americans like you died and suffered.
hello
why Neo can’t i post chinese?
If Conservatives hate the current america so much, why don’t you move back to the wild wild west? oh sorry, time has move on, there is wild wild west no more, keep up with the time please.
Dave:
I have no idea why you can’t post Chinese.
I see foreign scripts in my spam folder all the time—maybe Chinese goes automatically to the spam folder?
Dave:
Read about the GOP’s Senate’s proposal for pre-existing conditions.
http://neoneocon.com/2017/07/18/back-to-the-drawing-board-on-health-insurance-reform/#comment-2234769
Since you mentioned the apology, I went and looked it up.
The reason why TeaBagger is a personal declaration of war against people here, is not because of your ridiculous Alt Right homophobic or homosexual gaystapo alternative meanings that may be misunderstood here.
It is because of the evil malice behind the terminology. Plus all the other things you ascribe to them. That’s not due to “oh my Engrish bad”. Your communication is very clear on why you consider TP the “enemy” and where your pov is coming from. Your hate is real, and thus the Sanction for it from me is also Real. Your “race” is something you, a Leftist in need of a safe room, brought in, because you are insecure.
Like I said, they (TP) were your best and last hope for peace, Dave, as well as any particular health care living standards you could expect in this country and by extension the world, in WW3. When America falls, your Hong Kong system will go up in fire as well. It’s all inter connected. Canada and Mexico might need a wall to stop us, not the other way around.
Now you want to claim Victim status like a good Leftist alliance member, and say oh, Ymar doesn’t care about your personal situation. What I care about is justice, and you are due yours soon enough. Why would I treat someone who doesn’t care about the Tea Party or America’s situation, by caring about their situation? That would be a kind of Leftist equality yes, but not Justice nor a standard of fairness.
Also to be clear, human justice doesn’t exist. Just to put that out there. I seek not justice from human courts, Trum Kings, the Alt Right, or DC circus of child hunting rapists.
My idea of fixing DC is dropping a nuke on it. Although recently I was told that isn’t time yet, and divine orbitals have better ways than radiation fallout to destroy a city. It appears to be much cleaner and more precise, which is fine. Drop it when they want to drop it.
What is in it for me? tell me why do you think it is fair for the insurance companies to deny me coverages after i have paid into the system for so many years?
What is in it for you? A bullet.
You may be guilty of a lack of understanding here, but I don’t work for your insurance companies and nor do I work for the government boyos that instituted the current system. Nor was I one of those naive Tea Party patriots who thought they could reform the system by talking to Leftists like you… although I sympathized with their Cause, I just didn’t think they would survive.
And the IRS proved me right. It was not by my hand they were destroyed and knee capped. That was by your hand and the aide of those like you, Dave. You think you will get a civilization that takes care of Poor You, when you don’t even understand what makes American patriotism, American, do you.
time has move on, there is wild wild west no more, keep up with the time please.
Why don’t you walk up to a Nation of Islam BLM cell in Dallas, spit in their face, and call them a racist.
See what happens in your no longer wild west.
Ymar, I’m happy to debate you, but to do so at this point drives this thread further off course. I’ll content myself to point out that your expressed desire to impose religion-based beliefs on others is exactly what outrages me about lefties (whose absurd beliefs are, effectively, a religion) and scares me about muslim extremists.
I am a financially conservative, socially libertarian, small-government constitutionalist and like me or not, I (and a lot of people like me) are a part of the right-of-center coalition. The fact that there’s such strong intramural strife is one of the reasons that the lefties will beat us.
(Or are you willing to see this happen to you and everyone in your life? Really? That tough, huh?)
Christians used to prepare for persecution and welcome it, because of the rewards they were promised
Now they are decadent weak kneed Westerners harping on the glories of Western civilization, and nostalgic over a State Christianity that could just outlaw and burn out any heretical outside view.
It is precisely because Trum is one person that he needed his clan in DC to do the work. As I told him and you and everybody else. If they don’t want to pay attention, prepare to “win” against the Left, as they attack you endlessly until you just press the suicide button, like HRC’s associates did. Supposedly.
It is precisely because Trum is one person that one king cannot save the republic, because the republic is dead and it was not created by one person either.
The idea that Trum would “win” by EOs and Art of the Deal, and Game Theorying people, was also put to the test. But as only one person, the Leftist alliance is Legion, and the Deep State is many ORDERS higher than that.
You have no conception of the war you have been involved in. Neither does the Alt Right, Ctrl Left.
lt is funny how I have been destinated as the enemy of the conservative movement for 2 things, regretfully using a bad word to refer to the tea party that I have already apologised many times for, and demanding rand Paul to honour his promise that a wise person who had made a wise decision to start purchasing health insurance Early in life when he was young and healthy and maintaining his coverage throughout will not be punished with having his coverage denied or having to an unaffordable high rate when he gets a pre existing condition later in life. I have produced a proof that the chair of tea party openly expressed that their ultimate goal is to eliminate every protection ACA granted to Americans, essentially turn back the clock to 2008 and frozen the way healthcare was before ACA for eternity without no replacement or even improvement on the previously broken system. I love the tea party’s effort to oppose the neocons (sorry neo) and their nation building military complex benefiting agendas and other things like giving powers back to states to their own decisions or upholding the constitution or be fiscally responsible or what not. all I am asking from them is to honour rand Paul’s promise to the people by putting in clear writing that anyone who took responsibility of his life by buying insurance early and maintain it non stop while obeying the rules diligently every step of the way will never get kicked out against his will even after he gets sick, that is all I was requesting. it was a just and fair demand. why the heck do I get called an empire dog or whatever for demanding something that 90% of rational conservatives agreed with including our president Donald j Trump and speaker of the house Paul Ryan? I was giving Hong Kong example merely to demonstrate that there are places universal healthcare worked well, I am not demand US to adopt the same system despite the differences of the two places and the realistic impossibly
I have heard Ben sharpie said the same thing about having a penalty on those who only chooses to buy insurance when getting sick is a must to encourage young people to be responsible and start purchasing insurance early in life. what kind of reward is that if even you wise up and get into the system early the industry can still deny you after you got sick? the reward/discipline system is completely broken the way the tea party wants our healthcare to go.
Dave:
Did you even read the link I posted in a previous comment?
If someone has continuous coverage, no one’s denying them anything, from what I’ve read. Plus, are you aware of the way it worked, even before Obamacare? See this for a fuller discussion. See also this as well as this and this.
I really wished my Command of English is on par with my Chinese so I can get my ideas across more precisely without struggling so much. Whatever plans the republicans come up are way too confusing while leaving too much leeway and loopholes for companies with meticulous intents to operate in, and it allows the companies too much room to make the first attempt to overcharge and leave the burden of overturning the wrongful charges and it’s associated legal fees on the patients. In contrary, The ACA in terms of patient protection is quite precision and simple, while being powerful and absolute, leaving almost absolutely no possible way for companies to discriminate anyone in anyway. For someone like me who does have a condition (Graves’ disease, same condition Barbara and George senior bush have) Of course I would prefer the rest assured blanket protections ACA offered.
One more thing, whatever is in the current form of the bill is meaningless because the tea party has made it known that they will sabotage any bill that contains any form of pre existing condition protections. Tea party has the most to gain under the current political climate of the right and left seeing each other as sworn enemies, because by completely shutting out the moderate democrats by framing that “we cant work with any democrats because having any inputs from democrats will eventually lead to single payer“ they have much more leverage than they would normally have. they would much rather seeing ACA collapses on its own dragging millions of people and the finance of the nation with it proving socialise machine will never work than helping pass any sort of reform that would help millions of people. Tea party is the progressives of the right, they have the same “happy to see the world burn if it proves they were right” mentality that radical groups like BLM has.
“Here’s the problem, Mac. You continue to write as if you expect that treating the left nicely will result in a positive outcome, and that, if opposed by someone nicer, more professional and more polite than Trump, everything would have been fine” – Kyndyll
Wrong.
This is a democracy. We need to persuade people. We only need to consistently win ~51%.
Not everyone we need to convince are part of the “extremist faction”. We don’t need to win 100%.
We need to be persistent and assertive.
It is not about “being nice”, but it is about being respectful.
Flip it around for a second and imagine you were being sold something. Would you buy it from someone who is not respectful?
Do you think that trump is convincing anyone about the worthiness of conservative ideas?
If you don’t think persuasion is necessary in a democracy, then do you really want a democracy at all?
I’ll content myself to point out that your expressed desire to impose religion-based beliefs on others is exactly what outrages me about lefties (whose absurd beliefs are, effectively, a religion) and scares me about muslim extremists.
Kyn, I interpret that to be an admission that when people, like and unlike me, told you that the Leftists were conning you with the Gaystapo marriage agenda and that they were going “slippery slope” you refused to believe it and belittled the messengers.
Now you have to admit your mistake, but you won’t admit the enemy you see in the mirror. The enemy is always overseas or in DC, places far far away from you.
Mr Cynic You is scared? Heh. Perhaps you should have thought that about all the GOP E and moderate/pacifists here you lecture on about Right Strategy. They are as much you as you were back when supporting Gaystapo marriage and thought it was Civil Rights and lectured “religious people” they were being intolerant hicks and clingers.
http://neoneocon.com/2017/07/22/will-mueller-be-fired-and-if-so-what-would-happen-next/#comment-2236050
I reference that as Evidence 1.
As for the religious organizations/factions in the uS, I talked to a few like John c Wright. Apparently they call me Demon and Satan worshipper in Public and think all the Christians the Roman Cs burned alive, were heretics/apostates and thus it was Justified Homicide by the Inquisition.
Your world view is already in tatters, Kyn, you might as well dynamite the rest of it, since it was all lies, misrepresentations, and half truths you imbibed.
I am a financially conservative, socially libertarian, small-government constitutionalist and like me or not, I (and a lot of people like me) are a part of the right-of-center coalition. The fact that there’s such strong intramural strife is one of the reasons that the lefties will beat us.
Says the guy that belittled the “slippery slope” argument he was presented concerning homosexual marriage. *Civil Rights for Everyone!* Wasn’t so slippery, though. More like a pit fall straight to the bottom.
And you want to call GOP E for being quislings, Mr Cynic. News flash for you, some of us have been warning you, the GOP E, and the Leftist alliance about Civil War 2 since even before Hussein got into office. “Cynicism” is merely a matter of progression, not time. Post Cynicism is where you should be reaching soon.
Whether you like or dislike my claims, they will become true. Thus it doesn’t matter whether I lift a finger to convince humans or not. I put statements down years before, just so I can point back to it. Temporal arguments.
lt is funny how I have been destinated as the enemy of the conservative movement for 2 things,
It’s funny how people from Hong Kong can’t pay attention to normal logic. Since it was already pointed out to it wasn’t you mere use of a “term”, but everything else you supplied backing up your Malice. Go look up the word if you don’t get it, Engrish.
Tea party is the progressives of the right, they have the same “happy to see the world burn if it proves they were right” mentality that radical groups like BLM has.
Case evidence 1 why Dave is guilty.
Case evidence 2.
One more thing, whatever is in the current form of the bill is meaningless because the tea party has made it known that they will sabotage any bill that contains any form of pre existing condition protections. Tea party has the most to gain under the current political climate of the right and left seeing each other as sworn enemies, because by completely shutting out the moderate democrats by framing that “we cant work with any democrats because having any inputs from democrats will eventually lead to single payer“
It is so so funny that Dave is considered an enemy for unjustified reasons.
Kyndyll G Says:
July 24th, 2017 at 6:29 pm
Here’s the problem, Mac. You continue to write as if you expect that treating the left nicely will result in a positive outcome, and that, if opposed by someone nicer, more professional and more polite than Trump, everything would have been fine.
I take it also, Kyn, that you are refusing to accept the open invitation to lecture me like you lecture BM here.
Instead, you’re pulling the “I’m moderate and my opponent is extreme” card.
Nope, that card doesn’t work, precisely because of your previous lectures, Kyn.
“One more thing, whatever is in the current form of the bill is meaningless because the tea party has made it known that they will sabotage any bill that contains any form of pre existing condition protections.” – Dave
Dave, this is simply not true. The AHCA bill, which was held up for a time by the Freedom Caucus, which includes tea party supported legislators, include provision to provide for coverage for pre-existing conditions.
As has been pointed out be others, covering a pre-existing condition isn’t insurance.
I support a system to provide welfare to protect people that get sick and don’t have any resources to pay for their care. But it’s welfare, not insurance.
If the person is in a situation you describe, where they had coverage, lost their job and can’t afford to continue paying the premiums (say through COBRA) and then gets sick, I am sympathetic.
But if the person just decides not to purchase insurance when they have the resources to do so, shouldn’t that person pay some increased premium? Doesn’t that seem reasonable?
Somebody is going to pay for that persons care. Should it be people on the individual market? Or should it be broader based?
So the House bill did require a “penalty” in the form of higher premiums for the first year, but provided a fund to subsidize that higher premium for people that couldn’t afford it.
Here’s what the House bill included:
The perversity of it all is that the legislation is properly understood as doing more to preserve the Obamacare regulation on pre-existing conditions than to undermine it. The legislation maintains a federal baseline of protection in such cases, and says only that states can apply for a waiver from it, provided that they abide by certain conditions meant to ensure that no one is left out in the cold. Since these provisions only involve the individual insurance market, a small slice of the overall insurance picture (about 18 million are on the individual market), and merely make possible state waivers, they are inherently limited. You’re not affected if you get insurance through your employer (155 million people), or through Medicaid or Medicare. You’re not affected if you live in a state that doesn’t request the waiver, a category that will certainly include every blue state and most red states, too.
Even if you buy insurance on the individual market and live in a state that gets a waiver, you’re not affected if you’ve maintained insurance coverage continuously and not had a gap in coverage longer than 63 days.
By this point, we’re talking about a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the population.
If you do have a pre-existing condition in a waiver state and haven’t had continuous coverage, you can be charged more by your insurer only the first year. The state will have access to $8 billion in federal funds explicitly to ease the cost of your insurance, and the state must further have a high-risk pool or similar program to mitigate insurance costs for the sick.
Clearly, if Republicans set out to recklessly endanger the well-being of people with pre-existing conditions, they didn’t do a very good job of it. The purpose of these provisions isn’t to punish people who are sick, but to create an incentive for people to buy insurance while they are healthy. (The Obamacare exchanges are failing because the law’s tangle of regulations drove up costs and made insurance economically unappealing to the young and healthy.)
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447430/ahca-pre-existing-conditions-big-lie-democrats-are-telling
Trump must eventually fire Robert Mueller, a partisan tool carrying water for his Establishment pals as he oversees an utterly corrupt “investigation” where the only person we actually know committed any wrongdoing is his bestest buddy Jim Comey. But Trump can’t just lash out and do it, though it is well within his political and moral right to do so. No, he’s got to do it cleverly, with cunning, in a way that shows the American people exactly why Mueller’s witch hunt is a flaming dumpster fire of conflicts of interest and contempt for the right of normal Americans to have a say in their own governance.
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/07/24/trump-needs-to-be-smart-about-how-he-fires-mueller-n2358768
Pretty good stuff.
@BrianE – he’s the same guy who says that “trump cans comey like a boss”.
trump has the power.
He can even come up with a good sounding rationale.
The problem is, it would be in the context of all that has transpired so far.
If trump doesn’t have a very solid case, if he doesn’t maintain discipline / remain on point with his messaging, and if there are not further revelations, maybe he can do so cleanly.
So far, it looks like he is looking to fire Sessions. Then probably Rosenstein. Each to be replaced by someone willing to do trump’s bidding. Then he will have Mueller fired.
If Trum is a fighter against the Left, then fight, by saying “You are Fired”.
Come on, it ain’t that hard big boy. At least let Junior try.