Tale of the non-tapes: Trump says…
With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea whether there are ”˜tapes’ or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings,” Trump tweeted.
I would have loved to have listened to a tape of the Trump/Comey dialogues, but I never thought such tapes existed. I thought Trump was just teasing us (and Comey) with the notion.
Not exactly “presidential,” but very Trumpian.
Donald Trump seems to enjoy toying with the media. I enjoy watching him do it.
Thats not a plus Ray, considering the rest of his personality garners so little respect.
This isn’t a game. He used the threat of “tapes” to try to intimidate the fired former head of the FBI into silence.
It helps sometimes to try to think how this would sit with you if Clinton or Obama did the same thing.
All that being said, I was pretty sure there were never any tapes.
now that he has everyone thinking he doesn’t record conversations, he can start recording all conversations onward to catch those cheating dishonest politicians off guard and spill the beans on tape.
Is this really different from Obama toying with the country for months about his birth certificate?
Bill, I find it hard to fault President Trump for toying with the media, the Intelligence cabal, the democrat establishment, or assorted others after what they have done to him–and his family.
At least he is not sending his jack-booted minions to cart them off as so many feared, or claimed to fear.
I would also say to you, I suspect that if it were JFK, WJC, or BHO you would sing a different song. They would be clever, hip,or sophisticated depending on what generation you are in.
Bill wrote:
That is horseshit, but not unsurprising. He used the threat of “tapes” to ensure Comey didn’t lie about their conversations, and it worked.
Trump still annoys me with his tweets that seem kind of tweaking, abrupt, teasing and goofy however I am starting to think he actually is kind of brilliant. He knew going in the media would never give him a fair platform to present his message, they always bend and twist to suit their take on the story.
We are also finding out that several assholes who should have a bit of loyalty for the executive office are leaking all over the place. I am completely astounded he has been able to accomplish much of anything so far and yet he has. Is Trump a brash, New York, loudmouth, in your face lout, you bet he is and it works.
Now we will see if he gets a little more support from his party after the latest congressional win because if those in office don’t start climbing on board and supporting him they might get voted out in their primaries next time they run for office.
Conservatives out here in the trenches in fly over land kind of like seeing the D C people of both parties becoming uncomfortable and starting to worry about the masses. Folks that are still bitching about Trump won’t ever like him and some of us who like him over a year ago are smiling.
“I would also say to you, I suspect that if it were JFK, WJC, or BHO you would sing a different song. They would be clever, hip,or sophisticated depending on what generation you are in.”
OldFlyer – contrary to popular belief, I voted for Reagan, Bush I, Bush I, Dole, Bush II, Bush II, McCain, and Romney. I suspect that about 2 years ago you and I would have gotten along great. So no.
Not sure where the jack-booted minions thing came from. I just want good, quiet, economic government, transparency, and I wouldn’t mind if we dialed down the reality-TV feel of our current administration.
“That is horseshit, but not unsurprising. He used the threat of “tapes” to ensure Comey didn’t lie about their conversations, and it worked.”
One man’s “it worked” is another man’s “intimidating a witness”.
One reason the Russian stuff doesn’t go away is because Trump is acting like he’s guilty, in case you haven’t noticed. (For the record, I don’t really think there was collusion, at least not at Trump’s level. Not at all sure of Flynn and others)
Or you can call it playing 6-dimensional chess if you’d like. Whatever it is, so far it seems to be “working”. So what do I know?
“Conservatives out here in the trenches in fly over land kind of like seeing the D C people of both parties becoming uncomfortable and starting to worry about the masses.”
Well, the Democrats need to worry in particular because they have completely misread the moment. Lots of people don’t like Trump but that doesn’t make them far leftists. I don’t like Trump, I disagree with at least a tangible portion of what he wants to do and hate what he’s doing to my former party and (more importantly) the discourse in this country. But I am not a leftist.
I think there was a watershed moment a year or two ago when same-sex marriage was legalized through judicial fiat and nice people who wanted to obey their own consciences started being vilified (and sued, and driven out of business). And then the victors started talking about letting 40 year old men in dresses invade the our daughters’ restrooms…
Trump’s a very unlikely champion for the social conservative, but he did in a pinch I suppose and a lot of conservatives see him as an antidote to the craziness and increasing aggression on the left. That’s probably why the bigger a jerk he becomes the more he’s celebrated by his base.
I didn’t vote for him and can’t imagine I ever will, but I’ve never underestimated him. The Democrats keep making that mistake and they are in deep, deep trouble as a result.
Whether his appeal will truly become a majority appeal, I don’t know. I hope not, because I think long term Trumpism leads to lots of very bad things. But that’s a much longer comment. And I’ve been plenty wrong before.
“Folks that are still bitching about Trump won’t ever like him and some of us who like him over a year ago are smiling.”
Yeah.
Yancey,
That’s how I see it. You better tell the truth because I may have a recording. Perfect.
To catch a fox you must be more cunning that a fox
Not a baiting question: honestly curious. You think Trump maneuvered Comey into telling the truth.
Do you think Comey told the truth?
Bill – I think of Trump as I do Churchill. Crude but effective. I like both.
They are necessary men of their times – but I wouldn’t want my sister to marry either.
I understand why Bill and others find djt off putting. I also hope they felt the same about bho because imo he brought more dishonor to the highest office in the land than djt could do in 20 years with 10E6 tweets.
I’m with OldTexan, sometimes I cringe when djt goes on a rant, but I have come to see he is a master at trolling the left. Nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned. We are in unusual circumstances. The hard left have come out behind the curtain and revealed their viciousness and totalitarian agenda. Day by day the msm is revealed to be vapid parrots of the hard left. Its the violence of the 1960-70s deja vu all over again.
Trump has managed to do what no one else could do. Never thought I would be praising a character like Trump, but I am now. I do have a few complaints which I will save for another day.
“It helps sometimes to try to think how this would sit with you if Clinton or Obama did the same thing.” – Bill
As I read the comments here (and elsewhere on this blog), it sure seems incredibly likely that were it clinton or obama, the ones who take pleasure in this would be seething.
And, that is the problem. Folks think “winning” in a tit for tat “war” is going to get us what we claim we want.
It won’t.
This so-called “tease” or “maneuver to get comey to tell the truth” or whatever we want to label or claim it was, is just another episode that discredits trump (adds to the pile, really) for all but the most dedicated acolytes.
“Winning” means getting the changes we want.
To do that takes credibility and trust (among other things) to swing voters / the public behind those initiatives.
Between that public pressure and presidential leadership / pressure / negotiation, Congress will more likely follow suit.
Heck, with large enough support, there’s even the power to enact some bold measures.
But, as we stand now with these distractions, (with trump continuing this, and the rest of his admin and the GOP having to respond to this vs sell the changes) will we really get a true repeal of obamacare, and will the replacement really be far more market driven / lower premiums / allow us the choice of plans or to keep our doctors / etc.?
1. Trump’s threat lends credence to Comey’s version of events…because he testified knowing that there was a legitimate possibility that his testimony could be proven false.
2. We don’t actually know if Trump recorded the conversation. We only know that he claims to have not done so.
This one I’ve thoroughly enjoyed!!
He played the Herd for the Sucking Infants they are.
By happenstance I caught a few minutes of Rush today that summed it up nicely. El Rushbo was laughing and I got on that train. And, I thing Donny was having a ball. Good week for him.
________________
*Note: It’s the FIRST TIME I’ve really leaned in and gone with him, so I’m fully surprised at my own sweet self!!!!!
“‘Winning’ means getting the changes we want. … To do that takes credibility and trust (among other things) to swing voters / the public behind those initiatives.”
Here’s the problem, Maq. We live in a reality in which credibility and trust are not required of the thing that not just opposes us, but is showing that it wants to harm us, to punish us, to destroy our lives and livelihoods, and in extreme cases, to kill us. The left wants to do these things to us because we exist, and because we dare think things that it doesn’t want people to think. Lefties believe in lefty politicians and lefty politics the way a small child believes in Santa Claus. Credibility and trust – by grown-up standards – are not even a tiny factor. So there you go again – expecting us to play by the rules against an opponent who is incapable of even conceding that there are rules that apply to them.
In the past, we saw pretense. At this point, the left was so close to a crushing grip on this nation that the mask came off. They would have attempted to destroy anyone who won the presidential race against them. The only difference is that Trump – compared to career politicians – is proving to be a challenge. Trump doesn’t care if he is never elected to office again. He clearly doesn’t care what anyone thinks. There is not one person Trump ran against that would not have become an obedient GOPe toe-kisser that jumped when the left (and might-as-well-call-themselves-democrats right) said to jump. I don’t think there are many people alive, much less any politician in the West, that would not have turned tail and run like a puppy under the scalding and unrelenting barrage we have seen over the last eight months.
What shining knight do you have mind who actually exists on this planet today who would have handled the nuclear bile issued every second by the left while exuding polite, good-old-fashioned “credibility” and “trust?”
I still don’t like Trump. But I have come to respect that he must truly have a spine and gonads of steel to have lasted this long. I don’t know if good can possibly prevail in the long run, but I seriously doubt that anything resembling not-bad in any more palatable form would have a chance at this stage of the game.
Big Maq, can’t argue that winning means getting the changes that we want. The problem is that Schumer, Pelosi et al will not support any change, no matter what. McCain, Graham and their crowd are not much better. Just to really complicate things the media are out to absolutely destroy him.
Trump has reached out. He reached out to Latinos, he reached out to Congress as a whole, and he just reached out to the CBC. They rhetorically spit on him.
So, Trump cannot work within the system. He has to go around the system. To do that he has to discredit the opposition in the eyes of the public before they can establish momentum. I don’t like it; but, that is the reality in our country now.
Don’t be obtuse Bill. The jack booted minion reference has a basis. The hue and cry has consistently been that Trump would usurp liberties and unleash violence. He has not. The big complaint against him now is that he is not genteel, or traditional. The jack boots are demonstrably on the feet of those who–mindlessly– oppose him.
Oh, and Comey looked the fool before the Senate. Did Trump have anything to do with that? Maybe, or maybe it was just Comey being Comey. I don’t know, don’t care. In my eyes Comey is aligned with the resistance, and I hope that has become apparent.
Doesn’t matter whether anyone likes Trump; doesn’t matter if anyone agrees with his strategy or tactics, since we know very little about the true dynamics at work. What matters is that he is actually trying to do what he was elected to do; and he is fighting an uphill battle on our behalf.
To the Trump = Churchill commenter above, I’ll buy that comparison when Trump leads us successfully through a world war. Or even a lesser national crisis.
Thus far, he’s extremely good at trolling his enemies on Twitter. And he can sign EOs that will be entirely temporary if he isn’t re-elected. He has yet to get a major piece of legislation enacted. He has backed away from some of his major immigration stances. The Wall is still talk.
He may make it. I don’t underestimate him. But as Big Maq has stated, you don’t do big things with big negatives, aggressive and enthused opposition, tweets and hubris.
“Doesn’t matter whether anyone likes Trump”
Yes, it does. He’s not a king. He needs public support, political capital, and probably even a few representatives of the other party to get done what he’s promised to get done.
Bill,
I was (and remain) a strong Cruz supporter. As POTUS I think he would have handled the vitriol from the left with humor and a sharp wit. But that didn’t happen. All the rest of the primary field, except djt, would be eager to appease the left with squishy words and squishy policies simply because they want to be liked. Trump doesn’t give a damn and that is refreshing.
BTW, it is Congress that creates and passes legislation. Yeah you know that but djt is responsible somehow for the molasses flow of the legislative process. Trump is a bitter pill I agree, but he is the one who will sign bills, appoint judges,and clean the bureaucracies as much as that is possible. IMO we are in an era where no more mister nice guy is necessary.
Parker,
An objection, and I write this with all due respect (I mean that): You wrote: “BTW, it is Congress that creates and passes legislation. Yeah you know that but djt is responsible somehow for the molasses flow of the legislative process.”
DJT is the President of the United States. There’s a reason they call it “Obamacare” and not “CongressCare” or “DemocratCare”. There’s a reason it will be called “TrumpCare”.
The President doesn’t actually vote on the legislation, of course, but a President who has his party controlling the Congress is expected to get *his* agenda through.
If Trump doesn’t do that, what good is he? That’s what lasts – well, that and judicial appointments. EOs and Presidential Memoranda just get overturned by the next guy/girl if he/she is in the other party (and sometimes even if they aren’t). Tweets, speeches, rallies, etc are temporal. We aren’t going to turn the country around or “drain the swamp” or even overturn and replace Obamacare with something worthwhile if they can’t pass legislation.
And I’m assuming they and he will – he has the congress, he needs to get it done *while* he has the congress.
It seems Trump’s victories are all the same thing – “Look, he’s really ticking off the left!”. You haven’t seen a phyrric victory until you’ve seen one that’s based solely on the winds of political favor/disfavor.
And – again – Trump supporters spent a week talking about how much Comey lied. Now the story is Trump’s fake news/threat about *maybe* having a tape “made sure Comey told the truth” because Trump is some kind of wizard. Which is it? It can’t be both.
It seems to me that Trump’s handling of the Comey affair just assured he’d get his administration investigated by a special prosecutor. But because it’s Trump, it’s not a disaster. He’s just three steps ahead of everyone else and, of course, “he’s really ticking off the left”.
The left are idiotically throwing away their future on hard leftism and identity politics, and we shouldn’t stop them from that. But there’s always a chance they will learn a bit, get better led, and Trump may find out that having, for example, a congress now partially or completely controlled by Democrats will make what’s happening now look like a cakewalk.
Hey, nothing will get done – just endless and inconclusive investigations and more vitriol. As a conservative, I’m for the most part OK with that. But I’m not sure that’s the best thing for the country right now.
I know that was a bit of a rant. It wasn’t really directed at you – you just got me started. You’re a midwest guy and I know those folks (family hails from the Panhandle of Nebraska) – salt of the earth. If everyone was a farm boy with associated grit, family values, and perspective we wouldn’t have any of these problems.
Bill,
No gop potus can control McCain, and the rest of the squishy, we just want the msm to like us, psuedo conseratives. Its a dead end street. As far as “getting his agenda through” is a fantasy when many witin the party seek to undermine his agenda.
Sheesh, its all obvious. Just admit you are another nevertrump crusader.You want to destroy the right for your imaginary “middle ground”. Hat tip, it the left eventualy imposes their desired police state, you will be the first to lose your head.
The Republicans will maintain control of Congress in 2018 because Trump is causing the Democrats to reveal just how empty, greedy and vicious they are.
Parker
Didn’t mean to raise your ire. I’m still trying to figure out how to comment on this site and share my opinion in the Trump era without ticking people off.
My apologies.
I get all the “if the left had their way, then…(fill in the blank)”, but that isn’t a license for everything trump does.
trump’s “trolling” (I don’t agree with that description, btw – for another topic) is assumed benign / productive / fun, but it is not.
trump’s behavior is not merely unproductive, it is losing him credibility and trust.
IOW, he is wasting any political capital he has, while also giving the dems the fodder they need to gum up any progress he and the GOP might make.
It is NOT some “middle ground” compromise that is lost, if it continues, it is possibly the complete agenda for change.
Sheesh, it’s all obvious, at least to me.
trump needs to start “giving a d*mn” about what needs to get done, about how his own behavior is contributing to his slide, and needs to suck it up and own his own success vs blame others for failures.
With the idea in his mind that the conversations might have been recorded, Comey had to testify as truthfully as he could as to the content of those conversations- both to what Trump said and what he himself had said. However, I would word what happened a bit differently- he maneuvered Comey into not lying, either before Congress, to the press, and to the DoJ.
And, yes, I do think Comey more or less testified truthfully two weeks ago (but with one caveat), and that testimony covered pretty much all of the so-called obstruction allegations plus the paucity of any evidence of actual collusion between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government- that was Comey basically taking an ax to the NYTimes story from February, which is probably the point I think Trump decided Comey couldn’t continue as FBI director.
The one thing I think Comey might have been lying about is when he wrote the memos detailing the the conversations. One of the reasons I think it was a lie is the way Comey told the story about why he wrote them- that he woke up and was suddenly afraid the conversations might have been recorded. That doesn’t make a lot of sense, but could have had its origin in the Trump tweet after the firing. I say it is about 50/50 that Comey wrote the memos the day after he was fired, and that they were written solely to leak to the media. I think when Mueller asked him about the memos, Comey suddenly realized he had snookered himself and had to come clean to being the source of the leak itself. That is why he revealed it unprompted at the hearing.
“What matters is that he is actually trying to do what he was elected to do; “ – Oldflyer
If all that was needed was intention, we’d have no worries.
.
“and he is fighting an uphill battle on our behalf.”
No matter who is the GOP POTUS, it is an uphill battle. Of course, granted.
But trump seems to be digging a hole for himself vs going up any hill.
One cannot “discredit the opposition” (discredit to whom? and why is that important?), by being discreditable to oneself (in the eyes of much of those same whoms?).
Credibility and trust.
“needs to suck it up and own his own success vs blame others for failures” – BM
That is one core ingredient to good leadership.
So far, seeing little of that.
And, I will add one other thing that a lot of people seem to have not noticed, but is something Rubio mentioned explicitly, and it is this:
The story written detailing the Comey memos did not mention the fact that Trump wasn’t under investigation and that Comey himself had told Trump that multiple times in these conversations. Either this detail wasn’t in the memos read to the NYTimes reporter, or Comey’s friend had specific instructions to not read that part to the reporter. It was always odd to me that the memo wasn’t physically leaked as a pdf file. I would like to see the memos themselves in their entirety. I suspect that they don’t really match the testimony Comey gave at the hearing in that they likely don’t have the details that were favorable to Trump, but that Comey was more or less compelled to reveal when sworn in.
doesn’t matter whether anyone likes trump as long as there are more people in the country hating the democrats more than djt. Democrats are too busy calculating how hated djt based on djt’ historically low approval rating is without ever considering their approval rating is historically low as well. GOP needs to come to the realisation that if they don’t help trump getting his legislations passed, if trump goes down they will all go down and get kicked out along with him. Playing safe, not aligning themselves with the president to maintain a moderate conservative image will not work, either you are together with trump and we thrive together or you isolate from trump and we sink together.
Missing tapes… WaPo most disappointed.
He is treating journolists as they would treat him.
Ok, can you see a scenario where Trump could have played it cool until the Russian probe was a nothing burger instead of a special prosecutor event?
Contrast with Obama’s treatment of the birth certificate thing. He basically ignored it, let the controversy swirl for awhile, GOT HIS SIGNATURE LEGISLATION Passed by hook and crook, then produced his long form and the controversy died.
Which approach works better?
And if you don’t think Obama was facing a lot of opposition your memory is faulty.
I get the idea that Republicans should support Trump. But if supporting him means always assuming he’s right/brilliant versus realistically evaluating his actions, I think frequent disappointment will be your lot. His impulsiveness has been a detriment, not a plus.
For example – Trump wasn’t under investigation. Why was it so blasted important that he had to try and bully Comey into saying so?
It would have come out, eventually. He could have played it so much better if he had been patient. Trump being the executive too busy accomplishing his agenda to care would have been a much better look. When that news got established he could have glanced up, said “yeah, I was never under investigation. Let’s get back to work” and that would have been that.
His instincts are too steeped in the reality TV world where all pub is good pub. Doesn’t work as well in high stakes politics.
He’s lucky in his enemies at least. As Dave pointed out, at least Democrats are, obviously despised.
Bill asks:
If President Trump doesn’t get legislation through Congress what good is he?
Justice Gorsuch. Over 100 conservative Justices in Federal courts. Cutting many burdensome and unnecessary Federal regulations.
That is pretty good to me. YMMV
Big Maq and Bill, am I the only one who is reminded of an Ex-Spouse. Trump might not be who you wanted but Trump is the one you have so there’s that. That’s all.
@Tuvea – while considerably important there is MUCH more to being president than court appointments.
Losing the opportunity to make big changes that we need. For example, obamacare – will it really be repealed vs tweaked?
There is still a whole lot that can go wrong, beyond lost opportunity, as well.
The POTUS drives the agenda. When he is not, and focused on personal concerns, forget about achieving much.
Gosh, during the election cycle, if folks didn’t argue so darn hard that he’s the only guy who can get things done and make the bold and sweeping changes that we need, one has to wonder about such low expectations now, that we settle.
Such tapes DO exist, everything IS recorded, and that was a reminder as the sigint agencies have license to tape and monitor everything.
like our own memory, the issue is not recording, the issue is recalling (revealing).
What baked McCarthys donut (besides over agressiveness, and alcohol, two related issues), was that he could not reveal where or how he knows what he knows and in a system that is now calling for consensus, and blind faith they only apply to politics, would call “trust” a rare thing (as it should be).
U.S. secretly tracked billions of calls for decades
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/07/dea-bulk-telephone-surveillance-operation/70808616/
and they are not going to monitor the president, an office held by a transient, and their jobs lasting much longer and through many administrations – who really carries the torch of our republic?
There are other programs that sweep signals, so even if the line is not directly tapped a la 1930 (which never is any more as most everything is now packet switching not point to point), the radio signals of any device get swept up and with some really keen processessing pull out specific signals (by having several sources of data. remember, the net clocks are all tied to the navy base or similar atomic clock standards, and things are synched to that)
i DID bring this stuff up a long time ago and said its important to know before things come up and people are whipsawing everyone around with confusion. before the event its easy to get the better information, post event, you wade through bull puckies…
hows the bull puckies?
While wiki is not the best source in the world and varies according to whether the ideas or memes (french for ideas), are politically active and or crucial to certain groups.
but here is the ide ide (indonesian for ideas) on Sigint.
[before you say they dont do that, and they filter it out, you let me know how you do that pre capture, as you cant. its in there just as everything else is]
Global surveillance disclosures (2013—present)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013%E2%80%93present)
the above is sourced by snowden… but i dont need snowden to know what is going on, as its been going on for decades all over and i have brought it up. not as something to do somethign about, but heck, should be in any assesment of reality about politics and the presidents and international what nots.
remember i brought up Crypto AG… and their bit with the teletype machines and the dead people around it and Saddam Hussein… the machines were compromised and we were reading the communications from many of the worlds embassies.
Some things are just too big to hide and you have to have a story around them, like the camps that are still stationed and still manned.. or the disposal coffins and the other stuff. its there, what does it mean? tin hats say one thing, more measured say its uncomfortable, but there are so many guesses other than what you see to make sense, and others that then claim they are not what they are.
Utah Data Center
but you guys forgot the Internet cables that were cut and that moved the signals from the sea to Russian Satelites… or how now we are finding out what some always knew about russian companies and even some chinese companies and on and on (as thats the way its always been in our lives as it started before any one alive today was born)
now before you get all up in arms, remember, they are NOT taking advantage of any kind of connection to companies or tapping into anything. these are the bare signals that are open from object to object.
remember those funky lights that went on antennas a while back that the kids were using… it was SOOOOO coool to build a device that decoded the flashes by monitoring the light using the reverse bias of the same color LED (As a narrow band photonic detector).. and voila… they were showing the audio of the conversation to make the ligths flash
by the way… your disk drive in your computer is like that too… they connected the working LED light to the data bus… so it flashes the data that is on the drive to the room. you can even set up highly directed telescopic monitoring of a room from another room accross the street and potentially read the data someone is writing to their hard drives in a office with one person.
i mean screw Q and james bond on a teusday..
any person with a IQ above average can build devices Q back then would envy and marvel at and its the general public that is Soooooo ignorant of what a common person can do (our economy depends on this), and not all that hard.
the C2550 a low cost rf transmitter..
its 4mmx4mm..
but that is just a transmitter
go PIC (heck, even hollyweird still hasnt moved to the future in electronics in their scary movies!!!!)
http://www.microchip.com/design-centers/microcontrollers
depending on what you need, you can have them with memory, audio, dsps, all have clocks, triggers, controllers, pulse width modulators, and you dont wire up sensors any more like the old days..
actually, the old days went away a long time ago.
today you use communication protocols like one wire, I2C, etc.
as time goes by its more like leggos than esoterica
but thats the point…
to make a burst transmitter of audio really only requires a pic chip, some support parts that are much tinier than pieces of rice (and not special at all), etc.
you think its too hard?
well, you only need to modify a off the shelf hearing aid… in fact, they have hearing aids with transmission and reception and they use them all the time..
the ADMP801 is 7.3 cubic millmeters…
so all this is just funny to hear people discuss it as if they were beamed from the 1940s and such as the TV has not much updated their knowlege on chips, design, capabilities off the shelf, and more.
if anyone wants a job at the Utah center
go here
https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/
welcome to Bumblehive
Too lazy to look for it, but someone above said they were a Cruz supporter. I was too. Ardent, I would say, and outspoken in my opposition to Trump.
I am no longer outspoken in my opposition to Trump because he did the one thing, in my estimation, the Republican nominee had to do: he beat Hillary and her very corrupt ways. He deserves a margin of slack for having accomplished that.
I don’t like his apparent impulsiveness. I don’t like his tweets. I don’t like the fact that his depth of knowledge (especially on foreign affairs) is not deep and his advisors aren’t able to keep him from saying things that have to be walked back later. BUT I REALLY LIKE THE FACT THAT HE BEAT HILLARY! I more than like it — I think it was absolutely necessary for the nation that she was not allowed to enter the oval office.
And this is where I circle back to Cruz. I think he would have been a more “presidential” president, but I don’t think he could have beaten Hillary. He was a better debater, no doubt, but he was not willing to go for the jugular the way Trump was.
I think she would have been absolutely devastating for our nation and for the world. Thank god we dodged that bullet.
“Ok, can you see a scenario where Trump could have played it cool until the Russian probe was a nothing burger instead of a special prosecutor event?” – Bill
No, there is no such scenario where the Russia probe would fade away. The Russian probe wasn’t going away, and your analogy with Obama’s birth certificate is flawed. The birth certificate was drug along by a few ultra-conservatives. The Russia collusion is being promoted by the entire MSM.
During their Feb. 14 meeting, Comey claims President Trump said: “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. “He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”
This was the day after Flynn had been fired.
Had the investigation furor died down, the memo Comey wrote after the Feb. 14 meeting would have been leaked and and the lead story in the MSM would have been “Did Trump Obstruct Justice?” and the calls for a special counsel would have led us to where we are today.
You see regardless of what Trump does, the MSM and the government establishment aren’t going to relent.
You just can’t judge Trump and his accomplishments, or lack thereof, by referring to the fact that the Republicans now have both houses of congress and the executive. That would be true if Trump was the leader of his party. He isn’t, anymore than Sanders would have become the leader of the Democrats if he had won. Trump is the head of the anti-establishment wing of the Republican party and as such he is opposed by the establishment in both parties.
Trump didn’t run against the Democrats or even Hillary; he ran against the establishment. Unfortunately, his winning did not give him an anti-establishment majority in the congress. The ones he beat are still there and still fighting against the changes he was elected to make. Anything legislative that Trump wants to do has to pass through the opposition from both parties.
If you think the establishment politicians have come close to destroying the country then Trump is your only opportunity to stop that destruction.
Forget about the niceties. Forget about his personality. Forget about his crude and flamboyant ways of doing things. In other words, quit criticizing the color and lack of accommodations in the tank that is crashing through enemy lines and jump on board.
Trump is not invincible. He can be taken down and everything he’s trying to do for the middle class can be stopped if we don’t help him.
If we sit this one out because we don’t like the way Trump acts, or does things, or looks, or tweets, then we’re going to like a whole lot less what happens when he is taken out and the loonie left takes over. And, make no mistake, they will be the ones to take over because no one else is prepared to fight them in the trenches the way Trump is.
I would love to have Captain American come and lead us but he’s not available right now, so we’ll have to make do with Trump until he shows up.
I never bought into the Flight 93 stuff and still don’t. So I’m not going to be a “good soldier”.
To repeat a question that I think only Yancey answered above: the current spin, being spun hard by the Trump forces, is that Trump is a genius for talking about tapes, because in doing so he “forced Comey to tell the truth”. On the other hand, a few weeks ago the spin was “Comey lied so much”.
Which is it?
Trump has been attacked since before he announced he was running. The attacks have oftentimes been vicious and involved his family. Since he won the election there has been a broad effort – not a conspiracy, mind you – to undermine the presidency and to destroy his legitimacy in that office. Anonymously sourced charges of malfeasance and corruption are leaked daily from people inside or recently inside the government. All, or nearly all, of which have been proved untrue.
I didn’t vote for him, don’t particularly like him, but all of these unprecedented and illegal attacks make me sympathetic. If he wants to troll these people via twitter with vague threats and idle assertions, that’s fine by me.
The “Comey lied so much” part referred to the anonymous-sourced stories that claimed a vast criminal investigation of Trump officials and their Russian connections, and the fact that Trump’s assertion that Comey told him specifically that he wasn’t under investigation 3 times was a lie contradicted by “close associates” of Comey.
I am asking a legitimate question, Bill. What part of Comey’s testimony from 2 weeks ago damaged Trump? All I saw was basically a clean exoneration- Comey said Trump supported the investigation into Russian meddling, even if it involved some of his staff- Comey confirmed that he did tell Trump on three occasions that he wasn’t under investigation- Comey admitted that Trump only asked if it were possible to let Flynn go after he had been fired- Comey admitted that Trump never broached the subject of Flynn again- Comey admitted that he was the one who leaked the memo- Comey admitted that the various stories about how the investigation into Russian meddling had turned criminal and involved Trump associates were almost a complete fabrications.
All I see in Comey’s testimony is vindication for Trump and his team, and I strongly suspect that Comey and his “team” were the sources for the stories that Comey himself denigrated at the hearing. Indeed, when you look at Comey’s behavior before he was canned, it really does look like a deliberate and conscious effort to cast Trump under a cloud of suspicion- a cloud Comey could have dispelled at any time, but chose not to.
You want to know what I think Comey would have done if Trump didn’t hint he had recordings? I think Comey would have gone before Congress and told them Trump pressured him repeatedly to close the investigations and threatened to fire him if he didn’t. However, if there are recordings, Comey ends up in prison if he does that. He can’t do it now because he is committed to the testimony given.
I’d like to make a distinction on the attacks – Trump’s family has not been “attacked” in the same way Palin’s children were. Other than a few really dumb and classless things said about Barron, Trump’s three oldest kids are his advisors, are running his companies in an (ahem) blind trust, and as far as Ivanka and her husband, are extremely powerful members of the administration with offices in the white house. They are open to criticism. And they are adults.
Memories are short. I think Palin had it worse than anyone (certainly her kids did) , Bush was routinely compared to a chimp or Hitler (sometimes at the same time). Trump will be fine. But the question is not whether he’s justified in his impulsive tweeting and reckless statements. The question is whether it’s smart. You are in favor of it because you’re in favor of him. But you’re not the ones he needs to convince to support his agenda.
He didn’t win this round. At least not yet. Comey did. And it was all so needless.
how do liberals know Trump is not lying about not having recordings of his conversation with Comey now?
Dave,
They don’t.
And you don’t have to be a liberal to wonder if Trump is lying…
Bill,
You’re walking down the street and a mugger jumps out in front of you brandishing a pipe and demands all your money.
You pull out a pistol and point it at the thief.
“Is that gun loaded,” the thief asks. “It doesn’t look like it’s loaded.”
What do you tell him? What is your moral obligation to tell the mugger the truth?
Trump is getting mugged.
I find it very amusing that everyone here (except the irreconcilable NeverTrumpers) knows that Trump is just baiting the Dems, the MSM, and Mueller on, by continually talking about Russia — but the intended victims don’t.
I know Trump is baiting the dems. It’s an insane tactic to do everything you can to a) act guilty and b) keep the story not just going but growing. I don’t think Trump is insane. Occam’s razor: he just is following his decades old script, the only one he knows, and (I think) damaging himself in the process.
Turns out Russia did meddle with the election. This story keeps morphing. No idea where it will end up.
Most of the responses here are of the sort… “trump is the only one we’ve got right now, so we need to support him”.
That seems fine on the surface but for a few things:
1) That is PRECISELY what we hated about the dems and their blind support of obama – they’d cover every obvious and outlandish error or foolishness of his.
2) It is not merely that the left, msm, dems are out for trump, (which, of course, they are), but that it is trump’s own behavior that is creating and perpetuating much of what we see.
3) trump hired some excellent folks (and some not so), but seems h*ll bent on ignoring their advice, or worse (repeatedly) undermining them (or throwing them under the bus) even when they are going to bat for him.
.
It is far from clear that trump’s behavior is going to get us what we want, and perhaps might end up worse in the long run.
Certainly, cheering him on and/or excusing it all seems to embolden more of the same behavior.
Be it children or employees, without some kind of consequence or feedback loop, there won’t be a change in behavior.
trump may be the GOP POTUS we have, but it is not a good excuse to accept what he is doing if we think it is not getting us where we need to go, for getting anywhere close to the kinds of changes we need, or perhaps stumbling into something worse.
We’ll see.
@Richard S – 3d chess all the way! And, BONUS, it is FUN!!!
Yep, that HAS to be the best and most obvious explanation for all we see.
It couldn’t possibly be a man who seems obsessed (and gets baited himself) by the personal and petty, who is willing to lie (big and small) his way out of things?
.
The “everyone here knows” appeal falls flat when one looks at trump’s approval ratings… they are in the tank.
Evidently, far more people “know” that it is NOT really “trump is baiting the dems / msm”.
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Else
Great article, just what I was looking for.