A slow-motion coup d’etat
Is there any doubt that we’re watching a concerted attempt at a slow-motion coup d-etat?
To achieve this they have undermined the institutions of the Fourth Estate, the bureaucratic apparatus of the U.S. government, and the very nature of a contentious yet affable two-party political system. Unlike the coup d’etat that sees a military or popular figure lead a minority resistance or majority force into power over the legitimate government, this coup d’etat is leaderless and exposes some of the deepest fissures in our system of government. This coup d’etat represents not the rule of one man or even many, but by the multitude of our elites.
This article outlines the mechanisms, institutions, and nature of this coup d’etat; not in defense of President Donald Trump ”” who has proven himself bereft of the temperament of a successful president ”” but in defense of the institutions of our republic that are now not just threatened, but may very well be on the verge of collapse…
With the aid of the media and the Democratic Party, the institutions of the republic are crippled, the levers of power having been seized not by the elected but by the unelected bureaucratic state ”” from ideologues at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to the partisans and paranoid who inhabit our intelligence community…
Complicit with the authoritarian nature of the administrative state is factions within the United States intelligence community both inside and outside the White House. They have engaged in a campaign of selective leaks and plots to undermine the president of the United States and weave a media narrative of Russian influence, conspiracy, and now obstruction of justice. With their media allies, they have leaked information and intelligence that ”” while lacking any actual criminal element ”” has allowed a narrative to arise that casts a dark shadow over the White House and those who live and work in it.
I agree, at least in part. But I would add that the process is, in my opinion, an almost inevitable outgrowth of the increase in the size of our federal government and the bureaucracy appointed to administer it. Fear of a federal government when it reaches a certain magnitude is one of the main reasons the Founders tried to limit its size and power. I also think it’s clear that, although there are contributions from both left and right to this arrogance and lust to power of the “elites,” the left is inherently more wedded philosophically to that lust for federal power, and more up-front about it.
The significance of what’s happening is not about Trump, a man who “has proven himself bereft of the temperament” I’d like to see in a president. But, tough. We (or I, or you) don’t get to force presidents out because we (or I, or you) don’t like their style (although Congress does, if it feels like calling that president’s offenses “high crimes and misdemeanors”). Self-appointed government “officials” colluding with high and mighty “journalists” shouldn’t get to force presidents out (and certainly not on style points). But they will do it if they can, or at least rattle and undermine that president and his agenda. They’re certainly trying their hardest right now. They will succeed if Congress and/or the American people let them.
Unfortunately, as I’m not the only person to point out, President Trump is cooperating by giving them extra ammunition. But even without that, they would be mounting this effort with vigor.
“The significance of what’s happening is not about Trump, a man who “has proven himself bereft of the temperament” I’d like to see in a president. But, tough. We (or I, or you) don’t get to force presidents out because we (or I, or you) don’t like their style (although Congress does, if it feels like calling that president’s offenses “high crimes and misdemeanors”). Self-appointed government “officials” colluding with high and mighty “journalists” shouldn’t get to force presidents out (and certainly not on style points). But they will do it if they can, or at least rattle and undermine that president and his agenda. They’re certainly trying their hardest right now. They will succeed if Congress and/or the American people let them.”
Sadly, the Left (I used to add “aka Dems” but now have to include some Reps in the set) has abandoned all pretense of fealty to the Republican form of government, the sanctity of elections, and the rule of law – except those statutes whose malicious enforcement forwards their agenda.
This cannot end well.
AesopFan,
It’s not just that these people have no fealty to a Republican form of government; it’s that they have no respect for the people who would have a say in it. They don’t see that the deplorables might have other insights and abilities that could fix problems for themselves.
The same type of thinking is what is ruining our kids. They are given no opportunity to do something and then feel good about their accomplishment. It is exactly this that allows them to overcome some inevitable failures.
I saw a program on BBC the other night about how many medival churches in French villages are falling apart and being demolished. I wondered how this would play out in America. I suspect that the people would get together and try to something about the churches. They would raise money, find masons in the area, and consult with historians to see what could be done. That’s always been the strength of our culture. I think Trump voters wanted someone to finally say, We can do this.” They want someone who would answers Obama’s “You didn’t build that” with a resounding “Yes, we did.”
I’ve totally given up on our credentialed elites who can’t solve the simplest of problems in their own home, much less town or state. I doubt that a Columbia journalism grad has ever been inside a roach-filled apartment and looked in the fridge. They only learned to mouth do-good consensus BS. They only look to the next multimillion dollar townhouse neighbor for approval when they wear their Nordstrom’s $425 dirty jeans.
Extra ammunition? Maybe a good idea if your opposition is shooting himself in the foot.
Of course, we won’t know until November of 2018. In regards to that I believe that we are at a historical inflection point in American politics. Please see this chart:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Combined–Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png
Note that the Republicans were in control for 72 years from 1861 to 1933. The Democrats were ascendant for 64 years from 1933 to 1997. Note also the slope of the majorities – uniformly downward. I boldly predict a Republican century.
As to the next election, I will only say that I called the 2016 election pretty accurately. I even bet my brother a whole dollar on the outcome. I based this on not only the aforementioned chart but also on the USC/Dornsife poll which followed the same 3,000 people throughout.
http://cesrusc.org/election/
There wasn’t much volatility in this poll, and what little waxing and waning did occur did not correspond with the “momentous” events that gave the media its jollies.
I have been very interested in politics since my dad got a huge laugh over the “Dewey Defeats Truman” headline from the Chicago Daily Tribune on November 3, 1948. Main lesson derived – the people who “know” usually don’t.
Elites on both sides and entrenched bureaucrats are running scared, oh my gosh, calling Comey nut job but, heck he is. That absurd dissertation of. July 5 telling us in plain English want an inept dangerous loser Clinton ton is then saying no reasonable prosecutor would indict her!!! Does the man think we are crazy. Guess what we all have at least 8th grade reading skills. Comey deserves no veneration, he s a nut job,spoke it himself, lol !
mollyNH, 5:23 pm — “That absurd dissertation of. July 5 telling us in plain English want an inept dangerous loser Clinton is then saying no reasonable prosecutor would indict her!!! Does the man think we are crazy.”
We (the USA citizenry) need an explanation, but I personally have only conjecture. And that conjecture is, especially given the now-infamous téªte-é -téªte between husband Bill Clinton and the Attorney General on the tarmac, . . .
that someone slipped Comey a copy of that well-known list of people who crossed the Clintons and are now no longer living, and Comey, in a fit of sobriety, decided he preferred to excuse himself from residence on said list. Your mileage may vary.
mollyNH:
Comey is not even remotely a nut job. It’s an absurd way to characterize him. He is a guy who covers his own back, who probably made some very political decisions, who may be out for revenge for his firing, etc. But he’s not even close to being a nut job. That’s typical of Trump’s over-the-top insults. If he in fact said it, it would be quite a believable thing for him to say because it seems like his style of insult.
I agree Comey is not a “nutjob” and if djt said that it is totally within character. But Comey is a self-serving former official who was in a high profile position and colluded with Lynch and the Clinton criminal organization. He chose to insert himself in a manner that was not a part of his professional duties. That is the real scandal.
Trump is not a politician and as POTUS he is his own worst enemy. The behemoth exists to grow and expand. It will not be slain by tweets.
Let’s not get bogged down in whether Trump uses judicious language, or not. We have been there.
Neo, I have no doubt that we are witnessing an attempted coup by an alliance made up of the out of power party, the bureaucracy and the media. I do not know where disenchanted Republicans, such as McCain, Graham, et al enter in; but, they are not helpful.
By the way, it is no accident that the NYT, the Washington Post and the camp followers started this new effort just as Trump departed for an important foreign trip. They have to drown out any positive news.
I am beginning to think they might succeed. They have the microphones, the cameras, and the ink. They also have the fifth columnists in government to work their sabotage at every turn.
The question is what it will do to the country either way.
A “slow-motion coup d’etat” is a contradcition in terms, evidence that the original author is not thinking clearly.
Yes, people are trying to drive Trump from power, just as people tried to drive Bill Clinton from power, other people tried to drive Geroge W. Bush from power, and still other people tried to drive Barack Obama from power.
That is what is supposed to happen in democracies — especially Madisonian democracies like ours, where ambition is supposed to counteract ambition.
Nor is there anything unusual about the methods people are using to attack Trump.
What is unusual is the way Trump keeps putting weapons in his enemies’ hands, and the way Trump has given so many of them personal reasons to attack him.
Trump seems not to understand that ironic French verse:
Cet animal est tres mechant.
Quand on l’attaque, il se defend.
(A couple of accents omitted.)
If you attack, insult, and smear political opponents, you should expect that they will defend themselves.
Comey is not a nut job?
With his acts and public statements in 2016 and 2017 before his termination?
And more recently he testified the thought he might have affected the election with his statements made him “mildly nauseous”?
Sounds pretty nutty to me. His conduct and words were bizarre when they first appeared, and remain so.
Nutty will do. An old idiom, but applicable.
I for one do not think that Comey is a nut job. I’m in agreement with neo’s take on Comey with the caveat that Comey is reportedly deeply indebted to the Clintons.
That said, I do wonder what Trump believes he knows about Comey, which may or may not be true, that led Trump to characterize Comey in those specific terms. That is a separate issue (and I suspect a significant one) from Trump’s inability to keep his foot out of his mouth.
“A “slow-motion coup d’etat” is a contradcition in terms, evidence that the original author is not thinking clearly.”- Jim Miller
I thought it was a rather clever description of what is going on.
And I think you couldn’t be more wrong about your assessment that everybody does it.
In the last century, until this election, the transfer of power from one party to the other has occurred without this level of vitriol.
OK, maybe the Clintonites stole all the ‘w’ keys and the silverware, but they left Bush in a position to begin his administration. Even when the democrats were certain the election was stolen they didn’t react with this level of vitriol.
In fact, I think ‘slow motion coup d’etat’ is a beautiful turn of phrase. I had referred to it as a cold civil war, but this does a better job of describing what is going on.
After 8 years of Obama, the left thought that the fundamental transformation was sufficiently along that it couldn’t be rolled back. Then this buffoon, with a few scribbles of his pen began undoing all they had put in place.
They are beside themselves, because if Trump is successful, the coalition he’s assembled could be a new force in American politics.
expat Says:
May 20th, 2017 at 3:15 pm
AesopFan,
It’s not just that these people have no fealty to a Republican form of government; it’s that they have no respect for the people who would have a say in it. They don’t see that the deplorables might have other insights and abilities that could fix problems for themselves.
The same type of thinking is what is ruining our kids. They are given no opportunity to do something and then feel good about their accomplishment. It is exactly this that allows them to overcome some inevitable failures.
* * *
I found this encouraging, especially about the kids. Of course, the young man leading the charge here doesn’t agree with conservatives on much of the ideological agenda, but he’s at least willing to listen to them.
Watch the video – very impressive.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/05/meet-zach-wood.php
Schadenfreudig.
http://www.global.nationalreview.com/corner/447652/democratic-party-sued-low-wages-field-workers-bonuses-executives
“After championing the $15 minimum wage in their party platform, Democrats are facing a class-action lawsuit over failure to pay overtime. Field workers in various states are suing the DNC and state Democratic parties on the grounds that their 80-90 hour work weeks in the heat of the campaign qualify them for overtime payment, rather than their agreed upon salary of $2,500-$3,000 per month. Field workers are plentiful and cheap, so Democratic operatives are naturally arguing that the plaintiffs don’t have a case because the supply of inexpensive labor allowed the party to pay them so little.
…
All this is happening even as the DNC deals with a lawsuit over their primary process, which they argue was not fraudulent on the grounds that they have no legal obligation to treat candidates fairly. The left wing of the Democratic coalition has a growing list of grievances against the party establishment.”
This is really kind of tangential, but I wish there were more Republicans like Pai.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/05/life-of-pai.php
President Trump named Ajit Pai chairman of the Federal Communications Commission. By my lights it ranks as one of Trump’s great appointments. Having served as a commissioner during the Obama administration, Pai had a front row seat to see the FCC’s assertion of control over the Internet under the guise of “net neutrality.”
As a conservative Republican of libertarian stripe, Pai forcefully opposed the FCC takeover. See Tim Heffernan’s 2015 National Review article “Ajit Pai’s fight for Internet freedom.” My daughter Eliana had more background on Pai’s struggle at the FCC in the 2014 NRO column “Ajit Pai’s next move” (quotable quote: “It’s hard to think of any regulated utility in our economy that’s cutting edge”).
Now Pai seeks to mitigate the damage done under the Obama administration by rolling back the FCC net neutrality rules. …
And that’s not all! Leftist critics have been out in force on Twitter abusing Pai personally and in gross racial terms. In the video below, Pai reads a few of the tweets and responds. To borrow a phrase, I’m with him.
* * *
The video is worth watching, and as Scott advises, “To get the concluding joke with the oversize mug, see Benny Johnson’s IJR article featuring the video.”
Never comment on any “news” until it is at least three days old. It still stinks on ice, but at least by then you know what kind of fish it is.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/17/media/fbi-raid-orrin-hatch-russian-election-meddling/
For a moment last week, a part of the Internet thought Utah Senator Orrin Hatch was on the verge of becoming president of the United States.
…On Thursday, in a pair of unproven reports on her website Patribotics, Mensch wrote that Hatch was “likely to become president” should President Trump be removed from office — because, she said, Trump and the next two people in the Constitutional line of succession were likely swept up in the Russian plot to sway the US election and, thus, ineligible for the presidency.
…
Mensch’s report — which neither CNN nor any other mainstream outlet has reporting to suggest is in any way true — claimed the “first arrests” in the FBI’s Russia probe were imminent and that both Vice President Mike Pence and Speaker Paul Ryan would find themselves unable to ascend to the Oval Office because they likely were involved in “laundering Russian money.” The next person in the line of succession is the president pro-tempore of the Senate, a post Hatch currently holds.
A part of the liberal Internet that seems to be constantly waiting on tenterhooks for some news about Russia that will topple the Trump administration responded to Mensch’s reporting with glee, eagerly sharing it on social media platforms tens of thousands of times. But things really escalated when, at 1 p.m. ET, a reporter for a local TV station in Baltimore tweeted that FBI agents were executing a search warrant at a Republican consulting firm in Annapolis, Maryland, not far from Washington, D.C.
Before any further details had come to light, anti-Trump Internet detectives pounced. The Baltimore TV reporter’s tweet was retweeted more than 20,000 times. To many on the left, the news seemed to confirm Mensch’s reporting. It’s begun! The arrests are underway! Prepare for President Hatch! They assumed that the raid was related to the FBI’s investigation into Russian election meddling.
“Coincidence, no doubt,” snarked Keith Olbermann, the liberal firebrand and former MSNBC host who hosts his GQ video commentary series from the fringes of the left. “Nothing to see here.”
When the dust had settled, however, it appeared to be just that: a coincidence.
Federal law enforcement sources told CNN the raid was not connected to the investigation into Russian election meddling and was, in fact, related to state-level campaign work the firm had done.
Regardless of who wins the Nut Job Pageant, this is worth remembering.
https://townhall.com/columnists/timothydaughtry/2017/05/19/trump-is-not-the-real-target-you-are-n2329201
by Timothy Daughtry |Posted: May 19, 2017 9:11 AM
As we watch the daily barrage of accusations and innuendo directed against President Trump by the far left, the liberal media, and even some in his own party, those of us who voted to put him in the Oval Office need to remember one crucial point: <b.President Trump is not the real target. You are.
…In the 2016 election, the “forgotten men and women of America” were hell-bent to send a message to the powerful elites of both parties.
The message was that the Washington elites are serving themselves and their own agenda and ignoring the rest of the nation. The message was that Washington has become a swamp of corruption and self-serving collusion among powerful interests and that Main Street America is ready to see that swamp drained.
Donald Trump was our messenger.
…
That message was simple and grounded in common sense. No country can survive unless it has control over its borders. People coming into American should be vetted to make sure that they pose no danger to us. After eight years of stifling taxes and regulations, we should once again make America a healthy place in which to do business, make products, and create jobs. Political correctness may seem silly and laughable, but in reality it poses a serious threat to free expression and open exchange of ideas. If it’s terrorism, call it that. Say what is obvious to our common sense even if it offends the delicate sensibilities of the elite.
Now the denizens of the Washington swamp are sending a message back to the forgotten men and women who voted for Trump and his reforms: “Forget you.”
…
What is at stake in the barrage of innuendo, twisted news, and “investigations” is not just the future of the Trump presidency, but the future of the very idea that governmental power rests ultimately on the consent of the governed.
…
When the voters put leftists in power, as they did with the election of Barack Obama in 2008, the country moves left. But when voters try to change course, as we did in the elections of 2010 and 2014, the country still careened towards open borders, government control of healthcare, rule by rogue judges, and lawless license for those in the power elite.
And so we went outside the traditional path and elected Donald Trump in 2016. The liberal news anchors had barely dried their tears after Election Day when the left began to cloud the real meaning of Trump’s election by pushing the bizarre claim that the Russians had somehow hacked the election.
In their gaslighting version of reality, you didn’t really vote to drain the swamp. You didn’t really vote to secure our borders. You didn’t vote to repeal and replace Obamacare and put doctors and patients back in charge instead of Washington bureaucrats. You didn’t vote to restore rule of law and common sense to Washington. The Russians somehow threw the election to Trump. You can go back home now and let the experts run things.
It’s swamp gas. Don’t breathe it.
* * *
Sometimes you have to go to war with the messenger you have, not the one you wish you had.
Sigh.
Neo you are too polite and actually have respect for the office Comey held., but like I as a citizen who partly pays his salary do not appreciate being condescend to by this, ( dare I say nut job) I guess he can buffoonery his way along in life as a nut job with credentials. You are most certainly entitled to your assessment of him as am I. Agree to disagree.
expat…”I saw a program on BBC the other night about how many medival churches in French villages are falling apart and being demolished. I wondered how this would play out in America. I suspect that the people would get together and try to something about the churches.”
Tocqueville, in ‘The Old Regime and the French Revolution,’ mentioned that under the French Monarchy church maintenance was highly bureaucratized and centralized.
“Nor is there anything unusual about the methods people are using to attack Trump.”
I disagree. I don’t think Washington Post or New York Times reporters would print such thinly-sourced stories about anyone but Trump. An unnamed source reading an alleged document over the phone? Outside of the current feeding frenzy, that would be considered an embarrassment. These reporters have been blinded by their excitement. They’re enacting a movie in their heads, with themselves as the stars who bring down a president. I agree with Bob Woodward that the press is “binge-drinking the anti-Trump Kool-Aid.”
“A growing number of House Republicans are facing physical threats from angry constituents in their districts, leading many to fear for their safety.”
“In the last few weeks alone, the FBI arrested a man threatening Rep. Martha McSally’s (Ariz.) life; a woman pursued Rep. David Kustoff (Tenn.) with her car, and Rep. Thomas Garrett (Va.) heightened security at a recent town hall in response to death threats.
Other Republicans still holding town halls say they haven’t felt physically threatened by protesters, but they worry about the depth of anger from some constituents in the polarized environment and what it means for political civility.”
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republicans-fearing-for-their-safety-as-anger-threats-mount/ar-BBBlFlA?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
These attacks are not spontaneous.
“WASHINGTON – A network of some of the nation’s wealthiest Democratic donors is weighing providing money and support to several of the new activist groups that have cropped up since Election Day to challenge President Trump and his agenda.
Organizers of January’s Women’s March on Washington and leaders of Indivisible will make presentations later this week to the Democracy Alliance when the influential donor coalition holds its private spring meeting in Washington, the group’s president Gara LaMarche said.
LaMarche said he already has sought to connect alliance contributors to Indivisible, one of the groups at the forefront of anti-Trump efforts. Its organizers, led by former Democratic congressional aides, have created a how-to manual “for resisting the Trump agenda” that is modeled on conservative Tea Party tactics and has encouraged shows of opposition at congressional town hall meetings.
More than 5,500 local groups are using the guide to fight administration policies, organizers say.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/20/george-soros-democracy-alliance-anti-trump-activists-meeting/99417808/
I don’t remember tea party groups threatening people’s lives.
This is the playbook of the future. Refuse to accept the transfer of power. Organized intimidation, threats of violence and violence from the outside. Fake stories, using leaks of distorted facts or those completely made up, while refuted, never acknowledged by the media with a corrosive cumulative effect, all the while riding on the undercurrent of impeachment.
This election IS a tipping point. The confirmation of Gorsuch does slow the leftist march to their utopia of revenge against mostly white, Christian traditions.
Brian E. Even though well funded this will burn itself out as soon as Comey et all nut jobs discover they are reaching for the unattainable stars, (maybe not to Tyson de Grasse, but who ever considers him a real scientist ) There will be no hounding Trump from office no matter how hard they try he has millions in popular support & increasing sympathy voters. Norman Lear thought he was going you make Carroll O’CONNOR the most hated man on American TV. & made him as Archive a beloved folk hero, we laughed along !& seldom at Archie, Unentended consequence , love them!
“white, Christian traditions”
Brian E., what does that mean?
@Jim Miller – great points.
Seems to me that “slow motion coup d’etat” is another victimhood framing of the issue (which seems all the rage nowadays on all sides).
trump is an escalation. A “fighter” who fights indiscriminately for its own sake (or for ids own sake), it seems, rather than for strategic goals.
The reactions and counter-reactions are symbiotic, feeding off each other.
Everyone gets to hype their own version of victimhood and place their own version of blame and fault (not all without some merit, but not all without exaggerations, omissions, and / or obfuscations of some sort – e.g. what Bill here labeled “whataboutism”).
Of course, they / their side have/has no culpability whatsoever.
In the meantime, the media on all sides have record reader / listener / viewer-ship on this spectacle they hyped up to a bubbled confirmation seeking public.
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Blind, uncritical support for trump is a two edged sword.
Yes, it drives the left increasingly batty (in many ways, not unlike how the left could see no wrong with Obama drove the right).
Some find that “entertaining”, and some cathartic for a sort of “payback”.
Others may find it alarming, and feel compelled to back / defend trump just because of the hyper response of the left.
But, both the over the top reaction from the left and the stubborn see nothingness on the right will have it’s toll.
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If enough of the public has enough of this, they may well send a rebuke in the form of a dem majority in the House, and possibly the Senate in 2018 – then what?
Think it won’t happen? Look at trump’s approval numbers.
Either the media forces the GOP to defend trump, and they get branded (more than they have to date) by that and lose the up coming election.
Or, they make sure there is distance between them and trump – how will trump react to that? then how does our agenda get thru then?
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What looked like a binary fork in the road to many, is turning out more of a detour to the same location, given current course and speed.
should read…”for id’s own sake”
“white, Christian traditions”
Brian E., what does that mean? – Bill
I used white, Christian traditions because the left seems to give Blacks and Latinos a pass for their Christian faith. Plus ethnic churches in America politically align toward the left.
Their rancor toward Christianity is directed at whites obviously because they are the majority of Christians in the country. The other component is this “white privilege” meme.
The left hates Christianity because a healthy Christian Church puts God before the state. Someone is going to be in control. If it isn’t God, it will be the state.
I do believe God directs the affairs of nations and the direction the country is taking will not be good for my grandchildren.
“The Landscape Survey also finds that nearly eight-in-ten African-Americans (79%) say religion is very important in their lives, compared with 56% among all U.S. adults. In fact, even a large majority (72%) of African-Americans who are unaffiliated with any particular faith say religion plays at least a somewhat important role in their lives; nearly half (45%) of unaffiliated African-Americans say religion is very important in their lives, roughly three times the percentage who says this among the religiously unaffiliated population overall (16%). Indeed, on this measure, unaffiliated African-Americans more closely resemble the overall population of Catholics (56% say religion is very important) and mainline Protestants (52%).” – Pew Research
Seems to me that “slow motion coup d’etat” is another victimhood framing of the issue (which seems all the rage nowadays on all sides).
trump is an escalation.-Big Maq
How so? It’s a description of how the imbedded left is undermining and attempting to topple a fairly elected President.
Is Trump the victim? Only tangentially. The victims will be the American people that voted for him, whose votes are nullified by an unelected bureaucracy and leftist cabal of moneyed interests and paid thugs.
If Trump is re-elected in 2020 it will in large part be based on how well the economy is growing– if it is closer to historic rates with a slowing rate of jobs being offshored, he wins.
How can that happen given American indebtedness is once again at an all time high? By an infrastructure bill that produces a growth of good paying jobs. These can’t and won’t be $15/hour jobs and the growth of income by the middle class will propel the growth of the consumption economy.
It seems like the architects of our future of a “service economy” forgot that a diminishing wage structure doesn’t leave the economy with enough consumers to buy things without extending their credit limit.
I haven’t heard how the ACA reform is going in the senate– but you can be sure the target will move back from Trump to Congress if they pass anything that brings premium relief to the Americans that are getting hammered by Obamacare.
Remember the weeks following the House passage of AHCA? It was over the top. By focusing on Trump, Congress is getting some relief to actually legislate.
The left hates Christianity because a healthy Christian Church puts God before the state. Someone is going to be in control. If it isn’t God, it will be the state.
You’re hitting on something that has been on my mind a lot. I agree completely that a healthy Christian church puts God before the state.
But what has developed in America is not, for the most part, a healthy Christian church, and isn’t putting God before the state. The religious right, of which i used to be an enthusiastic member, is nothing more than Christian Nationalism.
I have no quarrel with someone who voted for Trump because they wanted good judges or a slowing of the leftward March, though I disagree with them (I think he’ll do well on the first part, less well on the second). I have a lot more trouble with my brothers and sisters in the faith who think he is somehow Cyrus come to save us, and I have no time at all for those who have convinced themselves that he is an admirable, Godly family man.
We’re part of a Kingdom that will be here long after America has passed away. I do believe God sets up rulers and takes them down, but he does it both for our good and for judgment. I think we’re in the latter case now, as we’ve failed as a church to do the important things that scripture commands, having replaced the Lord of the universe with a Republican god who’s more interested in our prosperity and (can I say it?) keeping things white than in, for example, comforting the refugee.
We see the powers of the world rising like monsters out of the ocean in Revelation and it appears that 80% of the white Christians in this country decided that the best way to combat that is to vote for our own monster.
“By focusing on Trump, Congress is getting some relief to actually legislate.” – Brian E
Hardly true at all.
trump has become a distraction and impediment to conservative progress.
Part of his job is to help usher those changes through, to sell it to the public, to grow support beyond his base.
Hard to do with news of everything else and low approval ratings.
Trust and Credibility.
Without that, support won’t be where it needs to be, the changes won’t happen, the economy won’t grow like it could, the 2018 and 2020 elections will be up in the air.
“Is Trump the victim? Only tangentially. The victims will be the American people that voted for him” – Brian
Agree. It is at trump’s own hand much of this. He’s not representing, serving his voters well with his behavior, essentially feeding the left rather than strategically driving the change that is needed.
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“I used white, Christian traditions because the left seems to give Blacks and Latinos a pass for their Christian faith. Plus ethnic churches in America politically align toward the left.”
Another victimhood framed meme.
Yes, it is true we can find some churches that preach offensive things – e.g. Rev Wright.
But, no doubt, one can find so called “white” churches doing similar.
Does that mean all “white” churches should be labeled by those findings?
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It is one thing to talk about the left – that is a group of ideas (though it often gets to be too much of a generalization itself).
It is quite another to ascribe whole groups to a position merely based on race.
I know full well the left wants to use identity politics to drive this divide. But, the right uses it too – only in the opposite direction.
That is how we find people talking about “giving Blacks and Latinos a pass for their Christian faith”, as if Whites have a lock on what is the proper “faith”.
It is an “otherization” bottled up under the “Christian faith” label.
So, if we are trying to sell our ideas as something better for folks, if they happen to be part of those groups, what will their response be from hearing this kind of thing from you?
That you don’t treat them as individuals who can think for themselves?
That their “faith” isn’t “real”, and is only part of some racially based group think?
Ultimately, this kind of thinking becomes an excuse not to bother to engage, because “they” can never change their mind.
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IMHO, it is a huge mistake for “Christian leaders” to back a man rather than a set of ideas.
This last election cycle it was disturbing to see early support for trump (well before he was a fait accompli for the GOP) from some church leaders.
trump is far from the Christian exemplar in behavior and ideas.
This action says more about them and what they personally value, than about Christianity – not much different than the Rev Wrights of this world.
That is how we find people talking about “giving Blacks and Latinos a pass for their Christian faith”, as if Whites have a lock on what is the proper “faith”.
…
This last election cycle it was disturbing to see early support for trump (well before he was a fait accompli for the GOP) from some church leaders.
trump is far from the Christian exemplar in behavior and ideas.
This action says more about them and what they personally value, than about Christianity — not much different than the Rev Wrights of this world.
WELL SAID BIG MAQ
One other thought.
It is interesting how many of us treat Islam as one monolithic religion, with all inescapable from the branding of the behavior of its worst practitioners.
Yet, we can be just as fine to somehow be disturbed by differences in Christianity and how it is practiced, without owning the label from the worst of us.
Maybe not you Brian E, specifically, but there were probably some who read your comment and nodded their heads, but also nod their heads on comments elsewhere, as described, about Muslims.
Note the importance of a comma.
“That is how we find people talking about “giving Blacks and Latinos a pass for their Christian faith”, as if Whites have a lock on what is the proper “faith”.”- Big Maq
The only true faith is the one that recognizes that Jesus is God, who lived among us for a time, who gave up his life for our sins, so we can be reconciled to Him, came back from the grave so we can be called sons and daughters of the Creator of the Universe.
I certainly wasn’t implying that whites have some super secret understanding and path to God, only that the left doesn’t spend the same time attacking black churches and Latino (Catholic) churches. I suggested it may be they politically align more with the left, just like the old mainline Protestant Churches– like PCUSA for example.
Seriously, Bill and Big Maq. It seems like you’ve discovered a new word- victimhood and you’re going to ride it until it collapses. It’s panting pretty hard. You might want to give it a good rubdown and put it back in the barn.
If Christians are fulfilling Jesus’ commandment of making disciples, they will be under attack– by spiritual forces and those that are under their influence.
Bill, let’s hope Trump is more like Cyrus than Saul. You probably see him more like Nebuchadnezzar.
“white, Christian traditions”
Brian E., what does that mean?”
Note the importance of a comma.- DNW
Here’s what I wrote:
The confirmation of Gorsuch does slow the leftist march to their utopia of revenge against mostly white, Christian traditions.
I started by writing “their utopia of revenge against white male privilege and Christian traditions”.
But then white women voted for Trump, so I modified it to “white privilege and Christian traditions”.
Then I thought it seems that black and latino churches, that share the same Christian traditions, don’t seem to receive the same level of criticism for their faith.
I could have just written “white Christian traditions”, but then that would lead us to where we are, so I added mostly and the comma.
Obviously if I’m having to spend this much time explaining myself, it wasn’t effective.
“Seriously, Bill and Big Maq. It seems like you’ve discovered a new word- victimhood and you’re going to ride it until it collapses. It’s panting pretty hard. You might want to give it a good rubdown and put it back in the barn.”
Brian E – regarding the “victimhood” thing – seriously, it’s almost all you hear from conservatives these days. A very large percentage of the talk is about how unfairly treated we are by the MSM. Do you disagree? I don’t think it’s much of a winning strategy for actually getting things done (but it does have the benefit of getting the base completely riled up). I get that the MSM is biased. This isn’t new, it’s not a surprise, and – guess what? We have an entire INTERNET now to work with. This isn’t Walter Cronkite and three channels anymore.
I think it’s a red-herring, for the most part. It’s the built in excuse for everything that goes wrong on the conservative side.
“If Christians are fulfilling Jesus’ commandment of making disciples, they will be under attack— by spiritual forces and those that are under their influence.”
I agree 100%. I do think we need to ask ourselves if this is really the main focus of a lot of white, evangelical churches. Is that a fair question to at least ask?
I belong to an evangelical church (I’m a deacon) – majority white people but with a growing population of people of other ethnicities. We are very theologically conservative. The task of making disciples is what we try to make the main focus. But – again, from my point of view – if you want to see some real passion among many white evangelicals, mention politics. I myself used to really believe that, for example, getting the next election right with the most “R”s elected would help end abortion. I still vote conservatively, but I don’t believe anymore that our country’s salvation is based upon who we elect (don’t hear me wrong – electing non-leftists is good. But it’s not going to save the country in Kingdom terms) and it really bothers me that for some people, electing Donald J. Trump (of all people) is seen as some kind of national salvation.
This is a big topic with me – I am not articulating very well, but Christian Nationalism was exposed in the last election as the true religion of many white evangelicals, and that is something I did not expect.
“Bill, let’s hope Trump is more like Cyrus than Saul. You probably see him more like Nebuchadnezzar.”
I was thinking more like Pharaoh. 🙂 – All kidding aside, I hope that things go very well and I don’t want my country to fail. But what I’m more interested in is I don’t want the American evangelical church to lose its soul. Seeing leaders like Falwell and Graham and that dude from 1st Baptist Dallas and others prostrate themselves before Donald J. Trump (OF ALL PEOPLE) has really been a wake up call.
Yes, you could have written that, if that were what you had actually meant.
But I assumed that that was not what you meant.
My impression was, that some were going overboard and engaging in a potentially and deliberately uncharitable “white identity” reading, which on brief reflection seemed clear enough to me was not the case.
My recommendation therefore was, that readers advert to the important comma, was so that they could keep what you said in – what I took to be – the proper, and qualified, context.
“Obviously if I’m having to spend this much time explaining myself, it wasn’t effective.” – Brian E
Call it uncharitable if you feel, but when “I used white, Christian traditions”, with a comma, is followed up by“because the left seems to give Blacks and Latinos a pass for their Christian faith”…
It certainly seems to be mixing race as a basis to separate and question their faith vs being a follower of “white, Christian traditions”.
It literally is “white traditions and Christian traditions”, but the clincher is “getting a pass”. On what? “Christian faith”.
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“black and latino churches, that share the same Christian traditions, don’t seem to receive the same level of criticism for their faith”
Not sure that is true.
Are Christian traditions common and shared?
If so, wouldn’t any attack on one quarter be an attack on all? Or is there a white version of Christianity?
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My point is this, Brian, I know very well the left’s mode in all this, but if we explain our differences as somehow tied to race, be it artfully or inartfully, then we’ve lost the argument, as we are playing the same identity politics.
This is especially so on the topic of Christianity, that should TRANSCEND race.
Of course there are church leaders who abuse the Word, and peddle in grievances.
Of course, the left gives those preachers a pass, to the extent it fits their agenda.
But, you can well find that it is not just one side doing this.
This is precisely the wedge that some, left or “right”, want us to use for their own purposes, and, bottom line, this wedge is an attack on all Christianity, and any faiths in general.
“My point is this, Brian, I know very well the left’s mode in all this, but if we explain our differences as somehow tied to race, be it artfully or inartfully, then we’ve lost the argument, as we are playing the same identity politics.”
This.
It seems to me that the GOP has largely given up on reaching those who are non-white. This has resulted in some really unfortunate emphasis – for example, xenophobia based not so much on fear of violence (thought Trump tried to frame the argument that way) but rather a fear that non-white Americans won’t vote GOP.
So as that rhetoric heats up and non-white Americans hear more and more from the GOP about how they are undesirable, it becomes kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?
(and we truly do begin judging people, politically, not by the content of their character but by the color of their skin, which goes against every classical liberal (i.e., conservative) principle we all once held dear).
It becomes an order of magnitude worse when Christians begin looking with suspicion upon their brothers and sisters who are non-white. We share a common faith, and that should supersede whatever political differences we might have. And I’m not saying different political stances don’t have moral and spiritual consequences. But they pale to insignificance when compared to the spiritual blood-ties we do share. But Sunday mornings remain one of the most segregated hours in the week.
The white evangelical church has been manipulated by power-seekers over the decades to believe that the GOP is on God’s side and Democrats are not. Now, Democrats hold some stances that I profoundly disagree with (particularly abortion). But it’s gotten to the point with many of our co-religionists in the white evangelical church that if the GOP is for it, since the GOP is on God’s side, therefore, whatever it is must be good and desirable.
That’s a dangerous place to be.
Good job controlled opposition.
Far from stopping Civil War 2, Trum’s ascension makes it almost certain.
I did say it was inevitable and inevitable means something.
Hussein got the right armed up. Now Trum is getting the rich Leftists to bunker up and arm up. It is proceeding as somebody has planned.
prostrate themselves before Donald J. Trump (OF ALL PEOPLE) has really been a wake up call.
They are bowing before their new emperor, the way State Christianity has been since Constantine. Nothing new.
Christianity died the first year of the 2nd century AD.
@Bill – seems like there is this slow realization creeping in that “Could I have possibly been THAT wrong about trump?” and that defending him blindly is a dead end. (Seems very much like Ann Coulter’s reaction).
Approval rating is now down to 38%
http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx
Independents seem to be the biggest movers (i.e. those who would swing elections).
Gallop doesn’t measure if there is movement in party identification from Republican to Independent (I suspect there is), which would amplify that drop in support for trump.
On the other hand, there is plenty of upside potential for trump, should he change (if he is capable of it). We’ll see.
“Christianity died the first year of the 2nd century AD.” -Ymarsakar
Why do you say that?
Christianity is a spiritual birth.
Have, over the centuries, Christians tried to “improve” on God’s plan? Yes. But the message of the gospel remains, giving hope to us today just as it did when Jesus was on earth.
“Call it uncharitable if you feel, but when “I used white, Christian traditions”, with a comma, is followed up by“because the left seems to give Blacks and Latinos a pass for their Christian faith”…- Big Maq
It was my intent to highlight two areas that the left is attacking traditional values– this new “white male privelege” shtick and traditional Christianity. I do believe the “white male privilege is related to the European (mostly British) underpinnings to our political and philosophical system. And, of course, the left hates Christianity for the obvious reason that a Christian’s allegience will first be to God. Always.
Originally I wrote “white male privilege and Christian traditions” but kept modifying it before pushing the submit button. It wasn’t intended to have anything to do with white identy politics or “white” Christianity.
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It certainly seems to be mixing race as a basis to separate and question their faith vs being a follower of “white, Christian traditions”. -Big Maq
Wasn’t my intention.
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It literally is “white traditions and Christian traditions”, but the clincher is “getting a pass”. On what? “Christian faith”. – Big Maq
.Black churches have historically been given a pass, for example, on criticisms of violating the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits 501C3 organizations from supporting and promoting a candidate.
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“black and latino churches, that share the same Christian traditions, don’t seem to receive the same level of criticism for their faith”
Not sure that is true.- Big Maq
This is an observation. I have no empirical data. I think this may be true because Black and Latino churches align more often with liberal politics. I don’t think the PCUSA is subject to the same criticism as say, the Southern Baptists.
I was going to use the Houston mayor subpeona of pastor’s sermons as an example, but it turns out that two of the pastors involved in the issue are Latino.
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Are Christian traditions common and shared? – Big Maq
Sure, for the most part. Christian traditions and Christianity are not the same thing though. Humans often adopt traditions which may be a distortion of what Christ taught.
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If so, wouldn’t any attack on one quarter be an attack on all? Or is there a white version of Christianity? that are common to a group and can be described? ” – Big Maq
An attack on Christianity is an attack on all who share faith in Jesus.
@Brian – I understand, but it becomes a quagmire to get into an argument about who is most a victim, and how unfair this or that is.
There will always be somebody with a bigger claim.
It also makes it harder, in the spirit of the Golden Rule, to get a sympathetic ear if we also are not showing much concern where “passes” are given out on our side.
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In a democracy such as ours as constituted, we have no choice but to try an convince better than 50% of the population that our ideas are better.
If we want to make changes we think the country needs, we need to focus on what moves that ball forward, and figure out who can be persuaded, and how to persuade them vs dwell on how the left are unfair.
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trump has spend much focus and effort repeatedly claiming how “unfair” almost anyone / any organization is to him.
So far, that’s bought him 38% approval rating, and a media feeding frenzy on BOTH the left and right.
That is not a good place to be, for what we want done.
“@Brian — I understand, but it becomes a quagmire to get into an argument about who is most a victim, and how unfair this or that is.
There will always be somebody with a bigger claim.
It also makes it harder, in the spirit of the Golden Rule, to get a sympathetic ear if we also are not showing much concern where “passes” are given out on our side.” – Big Maq
Big Maq, if I were to tell you I’d been beaten up by a band of roving pygmies, I get the feeling you’d tell me to quit playing the victim card and that I shouldn’t blame all pygmies for the acts of a few.
You’re ignoring my point.
“This election IS a tipping point. The confirmation of Gorsuch does slow the leftist march to their utopia of revenge against mostly white, Christian traditions.”
Whether classic “religion is the opiate of the masses” Marxist or cultural Marxism, the abolition of Christianity is paramount. Since that’s not likely to happen given the First Amendment, the left is seeking to wall off Christianity from the public square.
They’ve added to the mix, denigration of the philosophical and legal underpinnings of the founding fathers, shaped by men like Blackstone, More, Locke, Smith, etc. All white guys. All dead white males. This may just be a sop to feminists though.
Why Gorsuch makes a difference. Had Hillary won, another Ginsburg would have been appointed and with it a sudden revelation from the SC that hate speech is indeed not protected speech. Of course, the SC will just be building on the living constitution principle, enshrined in Obergefell.
According to Mother Jones, “In Obergefell v. Hodges, Kennedy and the four liberal justices who joined his opinion went all in on the idea of a living Constitution.”
I don’t think any of this is particularly new territory, but it does need to be restated from time to time as to what some of the endgame is.
@Brian – Not missing your point at all.
You want to go down a rabbit hole defending something related to getting a pass on Christian traditions based on race that, at best, is questionable.
Don’t see where appointing Gorsuch supports that argument whatsoever.
He may be important in preserving religious freedoms in the US, but that is not what the original point was.
Make the argument that we need Gorsuch to defend religious freedom.
Make the argument why that is important to America.
Make the argument that the left’s answers are all wrong.
Don’t make it a grievance about how the left won’t attack some racial groups and their Chrisitian traditions, with connotations that those traditions might not be Christian at all, or maybe not similar enough.
It just doesn’t move the ball forward, and, intentionally or not, serves to alienate those we ought to have a lot more in common with than differences.
“Don’t make it a grievance about how the left won’t attack some racial groups and their Chrisitian traditions, with connotations that those traditions might not be Christian at all, or maybe not similar enough.” -Big Maq
At this point, I think you’re being willfully obtuse.
Big Maq,
The original post was not about identity politics or identity religion or about race at all.
True Christian faith transcends races. Jesus said Go into all the world.
The fact that some black and latino and white churches seem to get a pass is because the message those churches are preaching aren’t offensive to the left. I mentioned PCUSA, the largest Presbyterian convention in the country. Their political views align with the left– pro gay marriage, feminist, anti-Israel, social gospel.
Then I mentioned pastor’s whose sermons were subpoenaed were Latino. So churches preaching about sin and redemption will be targets.
It’s not a grievance. While I think Trump election slowed the march of the left, they will never give up. They preach the religion of humanism and Jesus is their enemy.
I’m sure we’ll continue this on the flip side.