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More on Trump’s executive order on immigration — 27 Comments

  1. The big issue to me is the lack of warning.

    People who legally live in a country should not have the rules changed so that they get stranded.

    You’d be livid if some country you were visiting said that they were retracting your ability to go after you’d arrived there, having shelled out for what you thought was permission to enter. Now imagine being excluded from your home like that!

  2. I read somewhere that Obama banned Iraqis from coming to the United States for 6 months.

    No airport mobs then.

    This is the most sensible policy EVER. You can’t have people coming here from Terrorists nations. When did they fall off of the terror nation lists?

  3. Chester Draws:

    I’m in complete agreement on that. That was an error by Trump or whoever drafted the EO. But a minor one that affects very few people, and that will be corrected. The basic policy is a good one.

  4. I think this is an excellent policy but terrible execution, based on what I have seen so far. I just don’t understand why this was among the EOs rolled out in the week after inauguration. Seems to me that the immediacy, and lack of advance warning and preparation, virtually assured confusion on the part of air travelers, TSA agents, etc. The slightest weather or computer delays, not to mention possible bomb threats, routinely throw airports into chaos and long lines.

    Those who had already boarded a plane when the EO went into effect should have been allowed to land. I have a problem with the sweeping inclusion of current green card holders also. Those people have been through the green card vetting process already, I presume.

    i know it’s true that the media and leftists would have freaked out over this EO whenever it came down, but why hand images of long airport lines and teary immigrant families to CNN? Unless Trump planned it this way, as part of his “flood the zone” strategy, IMO it just furthers the impression that he is an erratic leader who doesn’t think things through.

  5. Chester Draws; I sort of agree; but, I think a “warning” would not do either. Too many would try to get in before the deadline.

    So, perhaps an exception should have been made for those already “in transit.” But, that would also have the problem how what is considered “in transit”? Someone who is already on a plane to the USA? Of Course! How about those who need to take a couple of flights – one to another country before transferring to a flight to the US? One could argue that they are “in transit” even though they are not yet on a flight to the USA. Or how about someone who already got their visa and paid for a non-refundable ticket; but their initial flight hasn’t taken off yet?

    So, Trump either just didn’t consider those examples. Or, I think he did and said let’s just do this and let the chips fall where they may as it has a small impact on those in transit and other folks are going to protest no matter what he does.

  6. Trump is a busy man these days. I didn’t support him but I don’t demand perfection from him either. I expect these problems can be ironed out.

  7. Iran may have jumped the boat on their reaction. How are they going to arrest Americans for “spying” and demand large ransoms if they ban them from entering their country?

  8. There should actually have been no warning. People caught up in this new order in transit are not permanently prevented from traveling- they will be taken up on a case by case basis and allowed to travel within a day or two.

    Like I have written many times, Trump is fortunate in his enemies who can be trusted to completely overreact in the most batshit insane manner.

  9. And as we are still in the first month of the new Administration, we’re all reduced to acting like Trump apologists just because we try to bring the truth (alternative facts) into the discussion.

    While I haven’t lost friends over this, I have lost a lot of respect I’ve had for real life friends who are liberals. The venom on FB is shocking – if you disagree – you’re not even a Christian. As someone who takes God and Faith very seriously, that’s a pretty significant insult, and it’s being bandied about like nothing.

  10. “That was an error by Trump or whoever drafted the EO. But a minor one” – Neo

    “IMO it just furthers the impression that he is an erratic leader who doesn’t think things through.” – CV

    I disagree that execution is a minor problem. It is a symptom of CV’s statement.

    It may be an agreeable policy (so was obamacare for many), but this example is part and parcel of the chaos we are coming to realize that comes with trump’s election.

    Hope it all works itself out.

    We’ll see.
    .

    We may find that similar action will take place on policies we disagree with and/or we inadvertently get caught up in / impacted by, simply because it was overly broad, or not well thought through, and becomes effective with no warning.

    Then what?
    .

    When we cannot trust that the rules won’t suddenly get changed, how are people going to behave?

    Guess we are on our way to finding out.

    We’ll see.

  11. The Legal Insurrection article is excellent, but has the Administration attempted to make the same points to the interested public? I’ve not really seen any effort to do this, but perhaps I’m watching the wrong interviews.

  12. I disagree that execution is a minor problem.

    Big Maq: It might be in this case, but overall I agree and that’s what I’m watching for in the next year.

    I do see Trump as something of a war-time commander. He has got to hit the beaches hard and fast and not sweat the small stuff.

    It won’t be pretty. I gather Trump doesn’t care too much about that.

    However, he’d better care about being effective and not being sloppy or getting caught up in personal vendettas.

  13. @huxley – even if a majority might oppose the policy and the msm will do its best to give its own narrative spin on it, the least a POTUS could do is explain it to the public and to allow people / nations sufficient time to understand the new rules and to change their plans, without some intelligence that says there is a clear and present danger.

    And, we know what trump thinks about the intelligence community.

    trump may be behaving like a “war-time commander”, but that should give us pause rather than celebrate.

    Shock and awe seems to be the premise.

    It is a short step from there to full authoritarian rule.

    We’ll see.

  14. Sometimes it takes a Godzilla to get something done that needs to be done. The execution was rushed, the roll out could have been more smooth, and the PR more polished. But Godzilla is as Godzilla does. This should have been done way back in 1993.

  15. trump may be behaving like a “war-time commander”, but that should give us pause rather than celebrate.

    Big Maq: I can well imagine Trump abusing his power by being petty and sloppy, but somehow I don’t imagine he will do it in a systematic authoritarian way.

  16. @parker – A little too much like…

    “on ne saurait faire d’omelette sans casser des Å“ufs”

    Also, Godzilla had no regard for anyone but itself.
    .

    @huxley – authoritarianism is undesirable no matter how it comes about.

    I suspect this isn’t just a one off, and just about this particular “emergency”.
    .

    @Neo – Yes, would have been good for trump to make the case.

    Reading the Priebus’ explanation comes across as retroactively justifying what was done. Seen a lot of that with trump’s campaign.

    If it is or not, who knows?

    For a man who ran on “competence” it is far from that ideal.
    .

    We seem to be getting in a mode of reflexively defending trump no matter what.

    Will this just push us more into uncritical support for trump because we may agree, at some high level, with most of his policies?

    If (when?) it goes awry, will anyone speak up?

    We’ll See.

  17. Big Maq: I speak up. neo speaks up. The folks at National Review speak up. No doubt others.

    I can’t tell how serious this immigration EO business is. It’s not so good if the Trump admin bobbled the ball in the wording leaving some people in the lurch.

    OTOH, to whatever extent it is broken, it seems like something which can be fixed without much trouble.

    And if explanations are needed, explanations can be given — even easier.

  18. Pandora Says:
    January 29th, 2017 at 11:05 am
    Iran may have jumped the boat on their reaction. How are they going to arrest Americans for “spying” and demand large ransoms if they ban them from entering their country?
    * * *
    If Iran objects to something Trump does, I take that as a sign he is doing something right.

  19. Yancey Ward Says:
    January 29th, 2017 at 12:11 pm..

    Like I have written many times, Trump is fortunate in his enemies who can be trusted to completely overreact in the most batshit insane manner.
    * * *
    Dilbert’s puppet-master agrees with you.
    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156399716951/outrage-dilution
    “I’m having a fun time watching President Trump flood the news cycle with so many stories and outrages that no one can keep up. Here’s how the math of persuasion works in this situation:

    1 outrage out of 3 headlines in a week: Bad Persuasion

    25 outrages out of 25 headlines in a week: Excellent Persuasion

    At the moment there are so many outrages, executive orders, protests, and controversies that none of them can get enough oxygen in our brains. I can’t obsess about problem X because the rest of the alphabet is coming at me at the same time. ”

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156544714786/the-canadian-option

    “Canada also gives us a test case to compare to America’s plan. In five years we can check back and see how it turned out for them. If it worked, we can reassess. Until then we obviously need to wall-off Canada. But that’s another topic.

    Now that I think about it, the Middle East has a lot of space too. Remind me again why Muslim countries are banning Muslim immigrants. Is it because they are Hitler?”

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156532225711/the-persuasion-filter-and-immigration

    “The Persuasion Filter says Trump is negotiating with his critics on the extreme right at the same time as he is negotiating with his critics on the left. He needed one “opening offer” that would set up both sides for the next level of persuasion. And he found it. You just saw it.”

  20. Big Maq,

    With respect, I suggest you look up presidential authority on issues related to immigration and who is allowed to enter the USA. Many presidents have restricted entry for many decades. As the exalted messiah notes “I won”. Elections, whether you or I approve of the outcome or not, have consequences. I accepted the Barack Hussein Obama was my president, although I did not like it and criticized him repeatedly. as I did all presidents going back to 1972 when I was allowed to vote.

    I promise I will criticize Trump. So ar I see little to cricitize beyond his style. But even that does not negate the substance. I am reluctant to admit, I have only minor objections. Yes, djt is a loose cannon, but compared to whar?

  21. If you want to get some clarity on what Trump’s executive order on immigration actually said and what it didn’t say, read this post by William Jacobson at Legal Insurrection

    why not read the actual EO? why play pick the person who will tell me something rather than picking yourself to know?

    so dumb… no wonder we are all in the crapper with information, we shop to find what we like says what we like the way we like, then wonder why we dont know the truth? sorry, but the truth is long, not short. the truth is not entertaining.. the truth is boring and makes you squirm and did i say its not entertaining?

  22. Artfldgr:

    No, not “so dumb.” If you actually follow the link to that LI post, it makes both options possible. There is a summary there of the points, with analysis from a legal expert. So if people feel uncertain of what it all signifies (not everyone is good at reading and understanding long legal documents) and want to get CLARITY on it (that’s the phrase I used) they can go to a trusted legally knowledgeable source. In addition, the LI post contains a link to the EO itself, quite early in the post. Therefore, if a person decides he or she wants to read the EO, that person doesn’t have to search for it but can use the link at the LI post. It’s not an either/or thing; it helps to read both, actually, and both are available through that LI post.

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