How to talk politics on Thanksgiving
Ah yes. Here we go again.
My suggestions this year are simplicity itself.
(1) Try to avoid the topic entirely.
(2) If a liberal brings it up, just use a pleasant tone and say something like, “I think the best thing to do is to wait and see, and give Trump a chance (you could add “like I did when Obama came into office,” but that has the danger of sparking an angry retort from the listener, so you might do well to desist from adding it).
(3) If you’re on the right but had spoken out against Trump during the campaign, and a fervent Trump supporter starts ragging you about how you were wrong to not support him, just use a pleasant tone and say, “I think the best thing to do is to wait and see, and give Trump a chance—and I’m really really glad Hillary didn’t get elected.”
Then dig into that pumpkin pie. You can’t talk with a full mouth.
Well it looks like your advice is the same as what’s being given to the snowflakes by their colleges:
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8435
neo suggests, “just use a pleasant tone and say something like, ‘I think the best thing to do is to wait and see, and give Trump a chance . . . .'”
M J R hears in his thoughts, “All we are saaay-ing, is . . .”
M J R:
Great idea to sing those words to that tune.
I found a couple of YouTube videos where people do just that, but the “singers” had such awful voices they sounded like howling dogs.
To those of my friends and relations who have been driven into hysteria by the election results, I have been trying to soothe them by quoting the wise words of Mae West “When I am forced to choose between two evils, I try to pick the one I haven’t tried before.”
I reckon that when and if Trump does something awful, we can deal with it then. Until then, pray for God’s mercy.
Ah, yes, Thanksgiving dinner. A time for families to unite and give thanks for all the blessings they have received in the last year. Or to feud vigorously over political opinions.
Which reminds me of a Thanksgiving at a cousin’s home back in 1966. The subject of the Vietnam War came up. Oops! My cousin’s father, my uncle, launched into an angry denunciation of the war and excoriated me for my part in it. I, of course, defended the war and myself. It didn’t come to blows but it could have. The women worked hard at cooling things down. My wife, son, and I left much earlier than we might have.
My uncle was a stubborn man. As am I. We never spoke again until just before he died. I knew he was ill and near the end of the road. So, called to say hello and goodbye. He was a proud man, but during our conversation he offered that it was rather regrettable that we had become estranged. I agreed and we made up. Two stubborn men finally willing to let bygones be bygones.
My advice: Don’t let political opinions split you from family. On the one day a year when we give thanks, it doesn’t hurt to be agreeable, even if you don’t want to.
John F. MacMichael:
What a great quote! I hadn’t heard that one before.
Politics are rarely mentioned when we get together for Thanksgiving. If the subject comes up at all, it will be a collective sigh of relief that we have been spared the calamity of a President Hillary.
May you all enjoy being with family or perhaps with friends. Our sons and their families arrived today. Our daughter and her family will enjoy the holiday at our son in laws family in northern Wisconsin. Be of good cheer.
Stay away from the cordless carving knife and any who is using one! 🙂
Neo, thank you. That line had been lurking in a corner of my brain for some time but I had to Google it because I could not remember whether it was a quote from Mae West or Oscar Wilde. Of course, had Oscar Wilde ever heard it, I am pretty sure that he would have used it.
Ah, thanksgiving dinner – fortunately, just my daughter and myself, and she is even more ferociously conservative than I am.
Our Thanksgiving dinner is just a short break between marketing events, as we are in the middle of a heavy schedule. I think we well be prepping for a huuge event in Johnson City – they light up the courthouse with millions of lights, the buildings around the courthouse square – a big marketing event, a parade, Santa visiting … I love these local things, because the people who run it, and deal with all the vendors are local volunteers, and sometimes we get the most amazing bits of local lore from them, as well as stories about local characters. (Many of these my daughter and I use for the Luna City Chronicles … we are considering telling people to be careful about what they tell us, as it might very well wind up in the next book.)
The weekend after, we’ll be in Goliad for their Christmas event. Our datebook is full for the next four weekends – tomorrow is merely a pause for breath between them.
A couple of my brother’s friends came over and he asked them who they voted for. One didn’t answer while the other said Clinton. Both friends were amazingly reasonable answering his question, not delving into the typical “Trump voters are …. “. It was him that got emotional. He voted for Clinton.
As the conversation went on one of the friends pondered out loud if he was a Republican during his high school and college days. He denied it and said that he loves Obama, saying that back then his political ideas weren’t formed hence, if he were a Republican, was out of ignorance.
About half an hour later he worried about Muslims and brown people, thinking that Trump will round them up. He then moved onto Pence calling him Hitler (I thought that was Trump?) who hates the LGBT. His friend then assured him that Pence could not remove the decision, in her words “turning back the clock”, of Obergefell vs Hodges, and if he did it would create a slippery slope with a possible return to slavery. There was also Congress to stop any bigoted moved she noted.
My brother later talked about his friends who cried the day after due to Trump’s win – out of sadness.
Most of the time I remained silent.
If this was Thanksgiving eve I can’t wait what will unfold on Thanksgiving Day. Hoo boy.
GRA:
Maybe he got it all out of his system.
We had one early family reunion of adult siblings and spouses with an explicit agreement not to talk politics period. Some of the party almost strayed into the Climate Change bog, but diverted in time to forestall any damage.
Unfortunately, one of my DiLs objected to being challenged by her husband’s brother on a favored Dem meme after the election, and opted out of the TG dinner at his house (depriving cousins of their favorite buddies to soothe her own feelings doesn’t win points with me).
Ever wonder why it’s always the Conservatives who have to trim their sails to avoid inciting the Progressives?
Maybe that counts as turning the other cheek 😉
For your amusement and edification:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/11/democrats-prepare-to-enjoy-the-holidays.php
“Those Democrats sure know how to have a good time. While the rest of us are looking forward to family reunions and delicious turkey dinners, the Democratic Party is coaching its faithful on how to win political arguments. This is from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, a “Guide to Thanksgiving With Your Republican Relatives.” — complete with colorful chart full of Leftist spin.
They have been doing the holiday-cheer schtick since Obama was elected (if earlier, I didn’t notice).
But they still haven’t figured out yet that this kind of poison-pilling is one of the reasons Trump won.
Sad.
John F. MacMichael Says:
November 23rd, 2016 at 5:16 pm
To those of my friends and relations who have been driven into hysteria by the election results, I have been trying to soothe them by quoting the wise words of Mae West “When I am forced to choose between two evils, I try to pick the one I haven’t tried before.”
I reckon that when and if Trump does something awful, we can deal with it then. Until then, pray for God’s mercy.
* * *
Good quote and good point.
physicsguy Says:
November 23rd, 2016 at 4:24 pm
Well it looks like your advice is the same as what’s being given to the snowflakes by their colleges:
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8435
* * *
All told the advice was good, although the undercurrent is strongly: just because they are wrong is no reason to get upset and become hysterical at the dinner table.
““Whether you want to educate family member or not, we will talk about ways to stay present,” the description explains. “When the stereotypical ‘drunk uncle’ or ‘racist aunt’ pipes up, we will have methods of opening up the conversation or politely declining it.””
No mention of the fact that sometimes the family member is more educated about the reality of the election than YOU are; and I thought we weren’t supposed to think about people in stereotypes — I guess it’s okay, if they are the wrong people.
“Case Western Reserve University also hosted a pre-Thanksgiving debriefing for its students, informing them that “away from the university, our families and friends often talk about issues differently than what we experience in our on-campus discussions.””
Do tell.
“Among other tips, the guide also advises students not to “sit close to those who might challenge your opinions,” and, if such an unfortunate scenario were to occur, recommends that students “suggest talking at a later time,” or change the subject.”
We used to call this having good manners.
Ordinarily, I would recommend that you engage with people who challenge your opinions because both of you might learn something, but if you glance at the PowerLine post I linked above, the engagement does no good when each party is working off of a separate set of “facts” —
If you do end up burning some bridges with loved ones,
here’s a prescription for balm:
http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/11/22/video-prager-u-benefits-forgiveness/
This quote John F. MacMichael shared with us nicely explains why Americans always eventually arrive to the right choice, but not before they exhaust all other possibilities.
Another recommendation on this hot topic:
usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson-street/articles/2016-11-23/how-to-lecture-donald-trump-voters-on-thanksgiving
USA was born from experiment and adventure, so it is no surprise in this permanent urge to try something new.
Happy Thanksgiving, y’all….
I have two close relatives who basically went bat-sh*t crazy with grief and recriminations after the election. It was never a mystery to me who they would vote for, and we don’t discuss politics at holiday gatherings, but I have decided that if they do bring it up over the next month and a half, I will simply refuse to engage. I love them very much, so it isn’t worth the animosity to fight about it.
Rather humorous take on being the crazy conservative uncle at this Thanksgiving:
http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2016/11/24/be-that-obnoxious-conservative-uncle-at-thanksgiving-n2249691
There’s an assymetry. Lib/prog/den may say terrible things without bringing social reproach. Conservatives who respond are accused of starting an argument.
Richard Aubrey:
And yet, conservatives sometimes really do start arguments. Conservatives are also capable of being obnoxious, although everyone here is very polite, I’m sure 🙂 .
My experience is that conservatives who reply to liberal goading aren’t often accused of starting an argument, just of various evil impulses. The tone also depends on which side is the majority political persuasion at the dinner.
Neo. IME, the lib’ s point is presumed be revealed truth, which why a response is “starting” something.
But they still haven’t figured out yet that this kind of poison-pilling is one of the reasons Trump won.
Sad.
If it came to arguing with people or abdicating your loyalty to the head of your church, which one would you pick?
Leftists are no less strong in their faith and fanaticism, although it isn’t strong enough for them to kill or die over. To suffer, perhaps, but they would rather make you suffer for their faith.
The Left can’t stop doing what Leftist zombies do, because their Authorities are their Authorities. And they obey because they have faith. It has less to do with policies or even politics. It’s a political outcome, but only because of a religious, theological, and epistemological foundation.
Many conservatives of the old guard, told me online that they were busy using the Left’s dogma, the NYTimes, and other facts the Left recognized, to prove to the Left that the Left was wrong. I always told them it was a waste of time. Using facts against Zombies. Using reason against faith. The reason why people seek faith to fill in the “God void” is because reason is insufficient to live on for many people. It doesn’t answer all the questions. The Left wants to get rid of evil on Earth, same as the builders of the Tower of Babel. They want to restore the Edenic vision, the utopia, but on Earth, not in accordance to the will of God or any other deity absent their man made Deus ex Machina gods.
That is why they think those that get in the way, are EVIL. Because that is what you are to them. Just as Lucifer, the serpent in the garden of eden is evil to Christians.
Because a lot of Leftists are brain dead cannonfodder that Obeys Orders the way the SS Obeyed Orders, it takes someone else to explain all this, as even Leftists often times deceive themselves to know otherwise. And non Leftists also deceive themselves by claiming that Leftists, if only they were told the facts and the data they would stop believing. No, that’s not how faith or a religion works. Humans don’t change their minds or hearts so easily. Maybe the honest ones do, maybe the top 10% or 3% does, but the rest of humanity… the rest of humanity is broken.
It is much easier to think of Leftists as some kind of zombie, tool, or demon possessed walking soon to be corpse, than to use human communication methods I have found. Even animal training methods, to quiet down crying Leftists that act broken like asylum cases, work better than what many humans use.
Btw, this happy version of OM that uses smiley faces and jokes around without cutting people with his mirror-sarcasm, that’s not the real OM. Bring back the real OM, what happened to the real OM here? Somebody replaced him with this happy version, it is not right.
Ever wonder why it’s always the Conservatives who have to trim their sails to avoid inciting the Progressives?
Maybe that counts as turning the other cheek
Turning the other cheek is when I look at people and see how much rope they can get fed before they hang themselves. It’s pretty obvious just from a look that I’m treating them as a sub human trash, I don’t need to say anything. They can launch as many stuff as they want, but as in yin and yang, I don’t need to block it to evade it. It matters as much to me as if an ant had started criticizing how I manage the yard. Dogs and Leftists bark because they want vindication of their views, they want attention like spoiled children and want anybody around them to either affirm their view or fight them for it as if they were equals.
I, for one, don’t treat inferiors as equals. Not even if it is merely the title, the attitude that should be equal.
I reckon that when and if Trump does something awful, we can deal with it then. Until then, pray for God’s mercy.
Trum doesn’t need to do anything, assuming he even gets to DC alive to do anything in the end. This country is half full of abominations and evil bullsh artists. Trum doesn’t need to do anything awful, on top of that.
As for praying, that’s probably bad idea. Since the last time I had a harangue at the heavens years ago after 2007, I demanded the punishment of evil and its annihilation in DC. Now we got Trum. Coincidence? Maybe, but usually not a good idea to demand things which is unclear how it will turn out. Not everyone is going to be praying for “mercy” so to speak.
And yet, conservatives sometimes really do start arguments. Conservatives are also capable of being obnoxious, although everyone here is very polite, I’m sure
Of course, humans being humans. Conservatives aren’t saints. Not even close. Nor are American patriots all that “exceptional” either.
Is looking at Leftists, the way people look at cockroaches and slugs, “very polite”? If so, I qualify. I’ve smashed cockroaches with my bare hands before. I think I would prefer doing that to touching or speaking in the evil presence of Leftists and their attached tools.
I am the lone conservative left in my family, but that did not stop my liberal sister & family accept the items that my conservative mother left. My sister said she as “only interested in a few things…” Yea right…
I do not believe anything a liberal has to say..
Oh, I had to call my liberal sister and her family today to wish them a Happy Thanksgiving…. And, I’ll will send them more in Christmas presents than they will send me… I only get a card from them. oh well…
Oh, I had to call my liberal sister and her family today to wish them a Happy Thanksgiving…. And, I’ll will send them more in Christmas presents than they will send me… I only get a card from them. oh well…
* * *
You can just say no.
Y:
“Btw, this happy version of OM that uses smiley faces and jokes around without cutting people with his mirror-sarcasm, that’s not the real OM. Bring back the real OM, what happened to the real OM here? Somebody replaced him with this happy version, it is not right.”
What did that have to do with your train of “thought?”
Inquiring minds want to know, but not really.
Yamarsakar, your insight about Tower of Babel is very, very incisive. That is a charge to the heart of the cultural war. There always were and always will be a mortal hatred between builders of Tower of Babel and builders of the Temple, between utopian universalism and struggle for a meaningful cultural and tribal identity and for a transcendental purpose of human existence.
My family is spread out politically, but all willing to stay civil – except for two of them. One lib, one con. They’re family rivals in other respects, too.
Liberals are more likely to politicize things as a general rule, sure. But at family get-togethers there are usually other dynamics at play.
Sergey, @Nov.24, 6:25 AM
Sounds like you have heard the quote from Winston Churchill: “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing…after they have tried everything else.”